Leading PreSales · 2026-06-24 · 6 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
32 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Most SE hiring focuses on credentials - years of experience, technical stack familiarity, domain knowledge - yet these predict what candidates have done, not how they think or perform under pressure. This episode challenges the conventional resume-first approach through a real story: a candidate with eight years of presales experience and strong technical chops who couldn't accept feedback and hit discovery score ceilings within three months. Nate and Ava argue that SE job descriptions should prioritize coachability and learning velocity before filtering for domain expertise, and introduce the 'Coachability Test' - a five-minute roleplay where interviewers give real-time feedback to observe whether candidates integrate notes, ask clarifying questions, or become defensive. The show distinguishes between confidence (a red flag when candidates perform rather than converse) and competence, and suggests interviewing should feel like dialogue, not presentation. SE leaders hiring across enterprise accounts, startups, and specialized verticals will find actionable interview design changes: audit questions for thinking versus knowledge screening, add roleplay moments, and watch for candidates who pause thoughtfully rather than deliver rehearsed answers. This is part one of a four-part hiring series from SE Rockstars.
Run a five-minute roleplay, then stop and give specific feedback (e.g., 'You missed the business impact - connect the feature to the CFO's problem'). Watch whether they integrate the note, get defensive, or ask clarifying questions; this reveals their actual coaching responsiveness under pressure, not just what they claim.
Experience and domain filters produce candidates with identical backgrounds and career arcs, leading you to pick based on demo skills (who presents best) rather than who will actually succeed on your team or grow in role. Domain matters for certain verticals but shouldn't be the first filter.
Resume credentials tell you what someone has done; they don't reveal how someone thinks, handles pressure, or responds to feedback. A candidate with eight years of experience but who can't accept coaching will hit a ceiling in six months, as shown in the hiring mistake example.
Confidence (commanding the room, performing) can mask weaker skills and often leads to talking at customers rather than with them. Some of the best SEs are quiet in interviews, listen more, and ask questions - indicators of competence and learning orientation.
Replace 'tell me about a time when' questions (which screen for storytelling, not skills) with real-time thinking tests: how do candidates handle pressure, integrate feedback in the moment, and respond when told they got something wrong?
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode offers a few genuinely actionable tactics - the mid-roleplay feedback test and reframing polished STAR answers as a red flag - but at six minutes the well runs dry fast, and most of the advice (hire for coachability, test thinking not knowledge) is common hiring-book wisdom repackaged for PreSales.
I run a short roleplay. Five minutes. Then I stop and give specific feedback. That was good, but you missed the business impact. Try again.
The candidate who gives a perfect star format response about their biggest deal rehearsed it 40 times. The one who pauses thinks and says, honestly, that deal was a mess and here's what I learned. That's who I want.
The central thesis - 'hire the learner, not the resume' - is a well-worn hiring trope, and the coachability framing, confidence-versus-competence distinction, and domain-knowledge debate are all recycled themes that circulate widely in talent and sales literature with no meaningful inversion or first-principles reasoning.
Hire the learner, not the resume.
The biggest hiring mistake I see my managers make is confusing confidence with competence.
The episode explicitly discloses that hosts Nate and Eva are AI-generated personas, not real practitioners; there is no actual guest, only a scripted dialogue, so any claimed experience cannot be interrogated or verified beyond a brief coaching-company credential.
We use AI to bring these stories to life through our, uh, two hosts, Nate and Eva. But the insights come straight from the trenches.
Welcome to Leading Presales. I'm Nate. And I'm Ava.
A handful of concrete details appear (eight years of experience, discovery scores being lowest on the team, 200 SEs hired, 350 coached) but no companies are named, no outcome data is quantified, and every example is a sanitised anecdote that cannot be checked or contextualised.
Eight years of pre sales at two well known companies. Strong technical background. Crushed the interview. Three months in, I knew it wasn't going to work.
His discovery scores were the lowest on my team and he had no idea because he'd never been in an environment where anyone actually measured.
The scripted format creates a plausible push-pull structure - the enterprise-scale pushback on domain knowledge is a real counterpoint - but because the dialogue is AI-authored, tension is always resolved neatly within two turns and there is no genuine unpredictability, follow-through pressure, or discomfort.
I'll push back at enterprise scale. Domain knowledge isn't optional. When one of my SE managers hires someone to sell into financial services, they need a person who can talk to a CFO about consolidation processes.
You're right for certain verticals, domain is non negotiable. I'm not saying ignore it.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Hiring Series 1/4. Why filtering for experience first gives you a shortlist who all look the same - and what to filter for instead. Part 1 of a four-part series on hiring the right SE. The perfect-on-paper hire who fell apart in month three - and the reframe that changed how Ava interviews. Stop screening for what people have done . Screen for how they think , how they handle pressure, and how they respond when you tell them they got it wrong. What Nate and Ava discuss Why experience-first filtering produces a shortlist who all look the same - and why you then pick on demo-of-a-demo skill The coachability test - a five-minute role-play with real-time feedback, watching whether they integrate, debate, or deflect Why polished STAR-format answers are often a red flag, and why "that deal was a mess" can be a green one Confusing confidence with competence - the candidate who commands the room vs. the one who asks you questions The move Before your next SE interview, audit your questions. How many test knowledge versus how many test thinking? If more than half are "tell me about a time when" - you're screening for storytelling, not for the skills that matter. Add one role-play.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Tim: Hey there and welcome to Leading Presales, the show for solution engineering leaders who want to build teams that drive revenue and not just demos. My name is Tim and I'm the co founder of SE Rockstars. And together with Jan, we've coached over 350 solution engineers and their leaders across several dozens of companies. Every conversation you hear on this show is based on real coaching situations, real challenges, real problems that SE leaders like you are dealing with right now. None of this is made up. We use AI to bring these stories to life through our, uh, two hosts, Nate and Eva. But the insights come straight from the trenches. Each episode gives you one actionable takeaway. You can apply immediately whether you're already leading a team or working your way into that role. Alright, let's get into it.
Ava: I made a hiring mistake last year that I'm still recovering from. On paper, perfect candidate. Eight years of pre sales at two well known companies. Strong technical background. Crushed the interview. Three months in, I knew it wasn't going to work.
Nate: What went wrong?
Ava: He couldn't take feedback. Every coaching conversation turned into a debate. I'd say try opening with the business problem instead of the product. And he'd explain why his approach was already working. Except it wasn't. His discovery scores were the lowest on my team and he had no idea because he'd never been in an environment where anyone actually measured.
Nate: So you hired the resume and got blindsided by the person?
Ava: That's exactly what happened. And it made me rethink everything about how I interview.
Nate: Welcome to Leading Presales. I'm Nate.
Ava: And I'm Ava. Uh, this is part one of a four part series on hiring the right se. Over the next four episodes, we're going deep on what actually predicts success, how to spot it, how to test for it, and how to make the call today. Why most SE hiring is broken from the start.
Nate: Define broken. Because I've hired or approved the hire of probably 200 SES over the years. Some process has to work, some does.
Ava: But think about what most SE job descriptions screen for. Five years of pre sales experience, familiarity with a specific tech stack, industry knowledge, maybe a certification. All of which tells you what someone has done, none of which tells you how they think or how they'll grow.
Nate: I'll push back at enterprise scale. Domain knowledge isn't optional. When one of my SE managers hires someone to sell into financial services, they need a person who can talk to a CFO about consolidation processes. On day one, you can't coach that in a quarter.
Ava: You're right for certain verticals, domain is non negotiable. I'm not saying ignore it. I'm saying it shouldn't be the first filter. Because here's what happens. You filter for experience and domain. You get a short list of people who all look the same. Same background, same career arc, same answers. Then you pick the one who presented best, which is basically a demo of their demo skills. Terrible proxy for whether they'll succeed on your team.
Nate: So what should be the first filter?
Ava: Two things. Can this person learn fast? And will they let you coach them? I've started calling it the Coachability test. If someone can't take feedback in an interview setting where they're on their best behavior, they definitely won't take it six months in when the pressure is real.
Nate: How do you actually test that in an interview, though? Everyone says they're coachable, nobody walks in and says I resist feedback.
Ava: You don't ask if they're coachable. You create a moment where they have to be. I run a short roleplay. Five minutes. Then I stop and give specific feedback. That was good, but you missed the business impact. Try again. Connect the feature to the CFO's problem. Then I watch. Do they integrate the note? Get defensive? Ask a follow up question that tells me more than any behavioral answer.
Nate: That's clever. You're testing the muscle, not the memory.
Ava: The other thing I've changed. I stopped valuing polished answers. The candidate who gives a perfect star format response about their biggest deal rehearsed it 40 times. The one who pauses thinks and says, honestly, that deal was a mess and here's what I learned. That's who I want.
Nate: I'd add something from the enterprise side. The biggest hiring mistake I see my managers make is confusing confidence with competence. An SE candidate who walks in and commands the room. That's appealing. But some of the best SEs I've ever worked with were quiet in interviews. They listened more than they talked. They asked me questions about how our team works.
Ava: Instead of performing, the interview should feel like a conversation, not a presentation.
Nate: And if the candidate turns it into a presentation, that might actually be a red flag. Because in front of customers, they'll do the same thing. Talk at people instead of with them.
Ava: So here's the reframe for the whole Stop interviewing for what people know. Start interviewing for how they think, how they handle pressure, and how they respond when you tell them they got it wrong. Those are the signals that predict whether someone will grow on your team or hit a ceiling in six months.
Nate: What's the move.
Ava: Before your next SE interview, look at your questions. How many test knowledge versus how many test thinking? If more than half are, uh, tell me about a time when you're screening for storytelling, not for the skills that matter. Add one roleplay. Add one real time feedback moment. Watch what happens.
Nate: Hire the learner, not the resume. Part 1 of 4 I'm Nate.
Ava: And I'm Ava. See you next episode.
Tim: Thanks for listening to leading presales. If you've got a question, a topic you'd like us to cover, or you just want to connect, reach out to me at Tim at serockstars. Com. And if what you heard today hit home and you want to talk about how to develop your SE team, feel free to book a discovery call at serockstars. Com. No strings attached. The link is of course also in the show notes until next time and keep leading from the front.
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