"Just One Hospital Visit" with Deputy Chair NMCHT, Nana Magomola in South Africa

Speaker A: In this conflicted world, we are all called to lead boldly into the future. Like Nelson Mandela did for South Africa and the world. You too can inspire, hope and develop a revolutionary new way to think, act and lead. Join your host, Anne Pratt, a Harvard Fellow and multi awarded businesswoman to unlock your success and leadership future.

Speaker B: What if a significant transformative leadership moment arrives not in a classroom and leadership forum or even a boardroom, but a, ah, hospital ward? Welcome to leading boldly into the future where pivotal tough challenges meet, adaptive leadership insights and the thoughtful bold action that the current global issues demand. I'm your host Ann um Kratt, formerly from South Africa and I relocated abroad to attend a Harvard Advanced Leadership Initiative Fellowship in beautiful Boston in the United States of America. Today we zoom in on uh, a life defining Mandela moment. What Harvard great leadership thinkers call crucibles. An intense life defining experience that tests our limits, that either breaks us or forges us into being the kinds of leaders that this rapidly changing world so urgently requires. We are joined in the City of Gold in Johannesburg, South Africa by a thoughtful, bold leader who is committed to this purpose and mission. She is a co founder of our Global Leadership Movement for Change, a Mandela inspired initiative to help transform the leadership crisis, to remind and reawaken our older generation and um, empower and inspire the next. She grew up in apartheid South Africa. She found her voice as a student in New York City and she went on to earn degrees in nursing and law. She built a distinguished career in business law and public service and served in the Independent Electoral Commission. In the historic 1994 first democratic election in South Africa. President Nelson Mandela personally appointed her uh, as a trustee of the Nelson Mandela's Children's Fund and as the Deputy Chairperson of the Nelson Mandela Children's Hospital Trust. She led the fundraising campaign which raised more than $6 billion and built the first ever state of the art specialized children's pediatric hospital in Africa. A hospital built on the principles of a child first policy that opened its doors and wards to all children irrespective of their means and opened their doors in June 2017. She has served on multiple boards in the private, public and nonprofit sectors including the Global Board of the International Women's Forum and is a former chair of the International Women's Forum President's Council. Her honours and awards are numerous and include the Ritz Carlson Most Influential Legendary Leadership Award, the International Women's Forum Women who Make a Difference Award and the BPI iconic uh, Leadership Lifetime Award. Stay tuned as she shares with us today. Firstly, how she found her voice in New York City. Secondly, a life defining Mandela moment, a crucible in a hospital ward, and why Mandela's leadership is more relevant today than ever. We warmly welcome my long standing, wonderful friend, a remarkable global trailblazer, a stunning woman and human being, Nana Machamola. And welcome to leading boldly into the future.

Speaker C: Nana, my friend, it's such a joy to see you again. I was just sharing with you. I remember the last time when I was in your beautiful home with you in Gabion, South Africa. It just left me with such a big heartwarming feeling. And you really, you know, you embody Ubuntu. And um, it's such a joy to have you come and lend your wisdom, your thoughts and your perspectives on this important message and movement in terms of leadership and leading boldly into the future. Thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you very much. And it's always great talking to you and also seeing you after many months. And um, I'm looking forward to this. We'll see how we're done.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Well, you know, I thought a good place to begin. You know, I reread your bio. It's been a while and I had forgotten that you began your life in nursing, in fact, and then went from nursing to law, you know, worked and then social entrepreneurship. So. And also you've gone right across from public sector. You were director general of the Northwest Province. You've done private sector, you know, you're chair and director of numerous boards and of course nonprofit, where you've done incredible work for and with, uh, the late, iconic Nelson Mandela with his children's fund, the trust for the hospital and of course children come up as a big theme. Um, it's such a diverse. And then of course your international, incredible contributions for the international Women's Forum, not only for South Africa, but, but globally as being a director and also on the President's Council. What shaped your career and why these different shifts at, uh, different times, you know. And again, let me add, I know you lived and worked in the US and South Africa. What kind of prompted these different pivots in your life and your career?

Speaker D: That's an interesting one. I never had to think back about it, you know, uh, my, how my life trajectory happened. It comes from way back when I was growing up. Yeah, I keep telling people that my mother was a feminist before the name word feminist was even coined. And I was talking to my niece the other day that I actually admire their mother because their mother raised them as people, those girls. Similarly, at my home, it was the Same thing. But, you know, when I reflect back to when I was growing up, I always saw myself as being this leader. I didn't call it leader at the time, but I just knew that. I mean, I grew up in. In attrition, uh, a black township, which under apartheid days, you know, uh, uh, black child, but in particular an African child, you know, the odds, again, are just so high. But I just always knew that I'm destined for bigger things. And I was thinking about how I think I must have been in six or seven. Imagine being in a job where I'm wearing a suit and a briefcase. I don't know where I got that from. Interesting. And, uh, then again, I was one of those children. I was lucky that I think I was smart.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I was always top of the class. If I get the third position, my life has come to an end. And I was saying one of those kids, those annoying kids in class who I sit in the front row out of choice.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And when a question is asked, uh, I'll be the first one to answer. And, you know, sometimes the teachers will skip me just so they can go to the next child. But also, I seem to have always had a plan. Because when I knew that I needed to graduate primary school, high school, when I was finishing up my high school, the plan for me was to go to law school. But because of the lack of means, we had to look at a point, Plan B, with my parents.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So that's when I, you know, got into a nursing career. But believe it or not, even at that stage, even as I was starting my career as a nurse. Yeah. I was very. I'm not going to end up being a bedside nurse again. I was looking at being that woman who has a suit to work and as a briefcase. Because my plan at the time was that I'm going to be a lecturer in nursing college. So it was a condition. I just knew from the great goal that I will not be a bedside nurse. So that went on very well. And when I finished my training as a nurse, I met Gabby Mahomola.

Speaker C: Wonderful Gabby.

Speaker D: Um, again, I knew that if I have to get married.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: I'm gonna have to get married to somebody who is as smart as I am. But be even smarter if you can, because I was just ambitious and I just knew that I wanted to be with somebody who will match my ambition and we grow together as a couple. Also in terms of our, um. Curious. And I was lucky enough to meet him. We got married. Yo. I don't want to tell you how many years ago, but 55 years ago.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh.

Speaker D: No.

Speaker C: No. I can't believe it.

Speaker D: So you would know that Gaby was a, uh, ex political prisoner.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: So yeah, when he was released from prison, this is like in the late 60s. He knew at the time that at some point he would want to leave the country. So after we got married, he worked for several companies. But while doing that, he applied for a. He got his BCom degree.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: So he applied Fulbright Hayes scholarship to study in the US So that's where he studied for his mba. And uh, the plan for us the whole time, even as he was planning to leave to go and study, was it, uh, myself and my two kids. I mean, my son was 13 1/2 years old and my daughter was 1 1/2 years old. We decided that we would join him in the states. Well, 28 years old. And I had sell our little property that we had, you know, assets, not the house, because we only had furniture. Make up some money to pay for my children's fan. My friend and I joined him in the US Again. Getting into America, a different world altogether.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Suddenly I realized that I do met as a human being. Not only as a woman, but just as a. As a human being.

Speaker C: And that you discovered in the U.S. i mean, was that an aha moment

Speaker D: in the U.S. aha moment. You know, I mean, when you grow up in a place where you are not allowed to walk in certain streets, you're not allowed to certain spaces, and uh, especially in transportation. We were not allowed to be in a transport that has, uh, white people in it.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: So now I arrive, I'm living with white people. They are my neighbors. We are in the same vessels. So life is different. But then also, I guess in our case, luckily for us, we lived in the Midwest before we moved New York eventually. I'm saying luckily in the sense that because we lived in the Midwest, there weren't too many Africans.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker D: So we were forced to interact with Americans. We were forced to get to know America from that perspective.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Then again, even at that time, I was a nurse. So I started to work as a, uh, you know, in the US when you, uh, you. Before you can practice as a nurse, you have to take the state board exams.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker D: So I had to wait to take those state board exams, qualified and. And then started working as a nurse. But then again, because I always had my eyes on the price. The price was to be better than what I have been. So I decided to study for a BScD degree so what I did was I did a double major.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: BSc in science, but also in nursing. In nursing. Just to make sure that I can pursue the career part of it. But the BSC also was a stepping stone towards me going to medical school. Gabby had joined Citibank. He was a banker trained by Citibank. And uh, Citibank had a plan of, you know, putting various leaders in Citibank in various countries. And Gaby was identified as one of those people who will come to South Africa. I guess the plan eventually that was for him to, to head up Citibank one way or another. So that now changed my plans again.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: I had to think about what do I want to do. Came back to South Africa. Uh, this is now in the early 80s. Early 80s? Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I decided already decided that I will not be pursuing a career in nursing. So I started to look for position in corporate. Now because I had this medical background, it was easier for me to join pharmaceutical companies. One of them was Johnson and Johnson. Then an opportunity came for me to go back to my first love, law. Once I graduated and I started working, it became very clear that I'm not enjoying this career.

Speaker C: You didn't enjoy law?

Speaker D: Well, look, I enjoyed law, but, uh, being in practice was in practice.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker D: Uh, yeah, because it was cutthroat.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And the northbound that I was working with the guy was really rough and really, really unpleasant, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I had to think, is this what I want? Yeah. And that we have time, by the way. I spent some time just thinking about it and, uh, consulting with some of my friends. And for me also, that was a time when I learned to get my spiritual connectedness.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Because I had to go within to see and look at. Does Nanno want? What am I here for?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And that environment was a caustic environment. And I didn't see myself growing in it. Friday morning, are you not going to work? I'm like, you know something? I quit.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: What? I don't know. Gab is a different kind of person. He listened. He was not angry at all. Mhm. He was empathetic. But also I used to tell him about the difficulties at work.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And I didn't have. I had no idea what's going to happen to me. But you know, when you believe in the blessings of the universe, I was not scared.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I was at. I really was at peace. And lo and behold, within a month I got a call from one of the guys I had known many years ago. He had started a consulting firm.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: He needed My assistance. So I went there, I joined in,

Speaker B: we went into consulting.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker D: And then. Hm. That was 1994, by the way.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: 1994. No, not 1933. 1994. Now we started planning for the elections.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker D: Then again, I get another call from somebody who knows me and says, well, I'm one of the general managers for the IEC as we know it today.

Speaker C: Yeah. The Independent Electoral Commission. Yeah. That oversees the elections for the country.

Speaker D: That's right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I need somebody to work with. Our responsibility. We ran the International Liaison Office there. I was. We ran the elections.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And that moment where. At Gallagher Estate, as if you would remember it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Where the.

Speaker B: Are going to be announced.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: You know, that's a moment. I talk about an aha moment. A moment in time where the head of the elections, the chairman, comes up to read the results. Um, and it becomes very clear which party had won.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: In seconds, the country has transformed. We have come from apartheid to now where I knew South Africa.

Speaker C: I just want to go back to your move to the U.S. i mean, what was that specific moment? You know, can you take us back in time? Where was it, when was it? And what was the kind of the event that triggered that thought? I'm a valuable person. I'm a real person, you know, in

Speaker D: the U.S. uh, like the university that I went to, I went to Hunter College.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I had professors, they were women. And actually our dean, dean of the university was. It was. It was a black woman. Yes. Now studying in a university where some of my lectures there were men, women, but they were black women also.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And they were into the dean also as a blue group. And ah. That also now came. Gets you to open your eyes a little bit wider. Yeah. And I read quite a lot because of the environment. Gabby and I lived in a fairly good neighborhood, so our neighbors also were people who were highly educated. And lucky for us, also, they were foreigners. So we had a lot to talk about.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: At the back of it, to really. To be direct to your question, living in America, but I know I'm not going to be living here forever.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Now, the question was, what was I preparing myself for? For when I go to South Africa again, Living in New York this way, I tell people this way. I found my voice in New York City. I found my voice in New York City. When you get into New York, as I say, the women around you looks like you. They're smart. And when they speak, you can be very articulate, assertive. That's why I learned to be assertive. Also, that's where I learned to raise my voice when I speak, because actually, I'm lucky, because our professors demanded that of us. But New York was definitely a growing point. And also because New York is a melting point.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: And, uh, we lived in the heart of New York, so we met people from different countries. And, you know, having an accent is not even an issue, because all of us had issue accent. But New York will do something to it. It will wake you up, even when you don't want to wake up. But if you're ready, like some of us were ready. I learned a lot, studied a lot. We went out, you know, to. And also, Gaby and I always tried not to always hang out with South Africans.

Speaker C: Yeah. Having that cosmopolitan mix, you know? But as I say, no, no, If. If I can make it there, I can make it anywhere.

Speaker D: But also, that's a place where we started traveling a lot.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: So we traveled different countries and also to different provinces. Yeah. It was a turning point for me. A turning point.

Speaker C: No, that makes sense. So, you know, you've spoken about, you know, when you're growing up, you know, in some shape or form, whatever that was, you knew you were destined for leadership. Can you help us with your definition of what leadership is?

Speaker D: What's my definition? You know, my definition of leadership would be somebody who, first of all, you must have a vision. Because if you don't have a vision, where are you going to lead people to? And you must have clarity of your vision.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Because people will not follow you if you yourself, you don't know where you're going. Of course. So the clarity of that. But also be able to articulate that to the people you're working with and be open to learn. For me, also, leadership is about being open to learn.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Because you know everything. And also I believe in also developing other people below you, because the more people you have who are bright and sometimes they need to be brighter than you.

Speaker C: Yeah. Because, you know, they're developing that leadership capacity within your team, within your organization.

Speaker D: Ah. And also as a leader, also, you do have to have a conviction of who you are and where you want to go. People don't want to follow a leader who is not comfortable with who they are. But for me, so empathy is quite important, not just sympathy. That emotional intelligence is very key and particular these days where, you know, we work with people, especially the young people that you're working with. They have so many challenges. The world is big. But also it's very confusing.

Speaker C: It is confusing. Yeah.

Speaker D: Listen to Other people, eventually you're going to make the decision, but, you know, be willing to consult.

Speaker C: So, you know, you talk about, you know, the incredible challenges we face today. And, you know, as long as I've known you, Nana, which is a very long time, I've had a great joy of knowing you over decades, actually. But given this current sort of complexity in the world, what are the big challenges that really keep you concerned? And, uh, not only in a South African context, but within a global context, what are the three biggest challenges that keep you up at night very concerned?

Speaker D: For me, some of the challenges are that, you know, we live in an environment now where there are global shifts. People are looking for leadership, people are looking for leadership. And now, gradually, people are getting disillusioned with the kinds of leaders that we have. There's a lot happening around us in South Africa in particular. I mean, you look at where things are, um, corruption is the order of the day. We just don't seem to know where we are going as a country. And the people that we lead are looking to us to offer them direction. There's no clarity about that. The leadership that we want, we want leaders who understand to balance the crisis that we have. There, uh, are all these complex transnational challenges. You work on that. But also you have to remember that there's a balance that we, we need to have. You know, with the people around us. People are feeling disconnected. Lots and lots of challenges. There's conflict. And, um, actually, day and day, when we wake up, you're looking for who is the leader we are looking for. And unfortunately, we have to create those leaders.

Speaker C: Yeah. So leadership is a very big issue in terms of the need for people who can exercise leadership with clarity, with vision, with authenticity, with empathy. All the things you've spoken about, apart from exercising leadership, what are the other big challenges you think that are of most concern for you?

Speaker D: Being people centered? Because we are at a point where we seem to be chasing material things and we don't think about the things that are just making us human. One of the areas that also, I mean, we have always known that technology is going to bring these challenges that we're having. Yeah, but I don't know if you are all well equipped. We're also facing AI, artificial intelligence, and it's very clear that it will never, uh, replace people. But then how are we preparing people to be comfortable with AI, uh, but also understand that humanity is also very important.

Speaker C: Yeah. So for me, those are staying focused on humanity and the importance of humanity,

Speaker D: the role of humanity and economically, I think the world at large, we are all challenged. I mean, you look at what's happening, by the way, conflicts in the world.

Speaker C: Is there a big, I mean, you've shared some personal transmission moments. Has there been a big transformational moment in your working life where suddenly you woke up and thought there's a better and different way of doing this or this has really impacted me in a significant way? I know you've played a very significant role in terms of so many different roles, working with Mandela, his organizations, his foundations. Let me ask you this then. What has been a notable role and point of transformation working, um, in his organizations and working alongside him.

Speaker D: Late President Mandela's values and philosophy of life are just groundbreaking. My special, special aha, uh, moment, and the one that was the biggest thing is I had met him when he came out of prison because as I said, in 1990. No, 1990. Yes, 1919. Gabby had been on Robben island with him. But I personally met him when he first came out, uh, from prison and maybe once or twice, you know, spent some time with him. But the biggest moment was when in 2001.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker D: He pointed me as a trustee of the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: I held this position until 1920 23, when I was then appointed.

Speaker C: 2023.

Speaker D: 2023. What becomes an aha moment is sitting by his feet. The lessons are endless. Every day you learn something new. Obviously we didn't see him all the time, you know, four times a year. We saw him of course, also during the children's birthday, but sitting by his feet and also at the Children's Fund serving as trustees with other prominent South African men and women who, when he called us to become trustees, his thing was we have to change the way society treats its children. Yes. That has been an inspirational, uh, moment that helped me and to shape and transform how I actually believe we should lead. Um, he's one of his famous statements. It always seems impossible until it's done.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And when I reflect about the many, many groundbreaking things that he has done, you know, this also statement says that as an owner you must persevere, be resilient and believe in overcoming insurmountable challenges.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker D: Now the big story here is in 2005, one of our colleagues, who at the time was the CEO of the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund, this is the event that led to the building of the Nelson Mandela Children's Hospital. So one of our colleagues, six year old son, um, gets involved in an accident where he suffers burns on his body like 90 burns 30 degrees. This is like serious, serious. But wow. Child gets admitted hospital, one of the biggest hospitals in Johannesburg. Six years old. Now our hospital are not geared up, um, for children.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: That for those who are dying. CEO of the Children's Fund. Now her six year old son is burned. So, uh, President Mandela comes to visit the child and the mother in the hospital. Now he finds this child sleeping in a bed. And next to this child is an old man. When you look at him as an adult himself, the old man was looking scary. And this little boy is sleeping next to this man. So he says to the mother, but why are they getting this child to sleep? You know, adult world, where are, uh, where can they take him to a children's world? And lo and behold, he finds out that there is no unit for children.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: When he came out of there, one of the first meetings we had with him as a trustee, we always talk about how he literally ordered us to raise funds to build a children's hospital.

Speaker C: Uh, just pause. What did he say? Take us through the conversation. So it was a board meeting.

Speaker D: So it was one of the, it was the beginning of a board meeting. And for him, he had. About how he was telling us about what he experienced.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: You know, and his sadness was that this is 2005 and remember in 1996, that's when he started the Children's Fund.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And he was always focusing on these children in need. But he was blindsided by not seeing that there is a need for a children's hospital.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: You see, we don't think about it. Even us, we never thought about it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So he set us down and he said, I don't care what it takes, we have to raise money. Yeah. To build Children's Hospital. And then his instructions was, uh, this hospital that you're going to be building is not for those who have the means. We want the hospital to be open to the most vulnerable of our society where no child will be turned away because they do not have the means. Instruction. So we knew we had to do something. Obviously a lot of work went to it, you know, doing feasibility plans and all of that to you raised over

Speaker C: a hundred billion nana. Over US$6 billion.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: So with, with the agreement of the trustees, uh, his wife, Grandpa Michelle was appointed chair of the trust. And I was now appointed. He himself appointed me to be, uh, deputy. Part of the reason was Gracia Machine was quite busy and they knew they wanted to have somebody who will be hands on all the time.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Let's say it was a long journey. My CEO and I and other trustees, we traveled the world over trying to raise money. 80% of the funds were raised by South Africans. Wow. Always ever so proud of that. Because people m stood up. And also one of the things that we did was we wanted this to be an inclusive project. Remember I said that it's a hospital where we want an average South African to go in. We made it possible for anybody to raise money so the people could buy even one brick. So you have an old lady who will come and give us 20 rents. Yeah, because they are proud that, oh, I also gave them 20 rents for them. It is the. The idea. The only state of the heart tertiary hospital for. For children in this country. So that.

Speaker C: And it also opened the doors to children from across the borders from outside South Africa.

Speaker D: Absolutely. And what also becomes interesting is to walk in there and see these young black women, can I say, who are specialists working around there, being happy. I mean, it's actually. Yeah. It's something that we remain proud of. And I always say. Yeah, the fundraising continues, by the way, just because.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Just in terms of the fundraising, Nana, uh, what was the strategy? Just very succinctly, what was the strategy? And uh, how did you get to that hundred billion rand or six plus billion US dollar mark?

Speaker D: Ah, the strategy was we will approach corporates and in particular we looked at corporates that involved with health care. But then we also approached just caring South Africans, people who they, yes, they love President Mandela, but they understood our cause. I must say, it was not easy. It took us quite a while too, because part of the planning was that we will not start, we will not turn the soil until we have raised half of the funds to build a house again. There were some good South Africans, by the way, who gave. I remember one of the trustees, he was a member of the trustees. We said in a meeting, he kept on asking questions about, how much more do you need? How much more do you need? How much have I given you? And at the time we said to him, you gave us 20 million random. And then asking us difficult questions. But. And you know, after those question and answer session, he says, okay, you can put me down for another hundred million rent. We nearly fell off our chest. Wow. So one caring individual. That's incredible.

Speaker C: He put down 120 million.

Speaker D: We actually have named a unit after his name.

Speaker C: Okay, please do.

Speaker D: Yeah, but I'll get it to you. Yeah, no, it's important to mention his name because, I mean, and by the way, I Also found out that this is the same man who every year on his birthday, he will walk to the Children's fund offices to bring his 6 million rent check. Walk. Not walk, drive. Doesn't send the driver, he walks in himself to bring it in. Africans.

Speaker C: Wow. So every year on his birthday, he donates another 6 million towards the operational costs of the.

Speaker D: Every year for forever. It was not about taking pictures with a Nelson Mandela. Not at all.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: It's about caring and. Yeah, yeah. So that.

Speaker C: That's amazing. And I hadn't heard that. We've actually had Nkuli, the CEO, uh, on our podcast as well, and she's a part of. I mean her own story is remarkable. But just. Even if we look at Unculi and just the. The kind of human being she is, good head, good heart, which Madiba always called a formidable combination. It's just, it really talks, you know, to not only the purpose, but the values and the spirit of that whole organization and the supporting structures that keep it operating.

Speaker D: One of the special. He's a cardiothoracic surgeon.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: This man, kids who ah, are like two kilograms.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: He left his good. A successful practice in London to come to South Africa.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And I asked him, why did you leave being overseas to come and work in this hospital? He says, you know, when I went to Wirt's medical school, yeah. My mother had to sell the last ship we have at home of the many ships that she had already sold in the past to get university, then sold the last one. So he always says that if my mother had not done that, I would not have gotten this etiquette. And this is it as his payback. Payback. And yeah, those are the nice stories that you hear from other people that are there.

Speaker C: It's amazing. And I'm so excited that you still, you know, actively navigating, you know, helping navigate that ship. I mean, it's wonderful. I haven't yet been inside that hospital, by the way. I've seen photographs. But next time I'm in South Africa, I would love to go and visit it with you.

Speaker D: I'll arrange for you to do that. I'll ARR for you to do that. What I wanted to say is, you know, you talk about my career and all the corporate things that I've done, the business sitting on boards, and these are big, ah, corporate boards. I always say that when I'm in those meetings and doing the work that I do that puts my, uh, bread on the table, I'm happy. But when I do my philanthropic work, as in this hospital and other philanthropic work that I do, I'm the happiest.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Uh, philanthropy exhilarates the spirits.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Because you can't touch it, but you feel it. You know, just. It's something different when you do this and the impact that it has on people's lives. It's just a pleasure. And everybody, not just a play. It's an honor to be in a space and a position where you can give back.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And, you know, just still talking about Madiba, as we affectionately call him. Are there any other. Is there another particular personal moment for you? A kind of a different Mandela moment? You've had so many moments with him, Nana. Is there another moment where, you know, it really kind of struck you about reflecting on who you are in the world and how you think, act, and lead in the world today?

Speaker D: You know, some. Some of. Some of his moments would be, we all know him to be a kind man. We all know him to be caring and all m of that. But sometimes, once or twice, we have had an opportunity of seeing a man who is unhappy about when things are going the way he's expecting them to go.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: He sits you down, tells you in no uncertain terms, and you understand and you get it. And you can see, you can hear it, and you can feel it. Mhm. Then again, being the leader that he is, I remember once or twice he chastised us in a meeting. I'm like. He was really, really, really, like, went on and on, and we were all quiet and we couldn't. One of them is again, in terms of raising money for the hospital. But then after that, when you go out now, it's time for lunch offing, you will be laughing and laughing and laughing because he is, by the way, one of the funniest men that I have actually ever met.

Speaker C: Interesting.

Speaker D: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my. My goodness. He always something nice to say about you. Um, but can I also talk about his humility?

Speaker C: Yeah, please.

Speaker D: I'll, uh, talk about his. My funny moments with him. One of them was when I just one of our functions and we, uh, greet each other and say, oh, you know, Gaby said I must say hello to you. He says, oh, how is he? I'm like, uh, no, no, he's fine. He's fine. He says, oh, tell me, how long did it take you to propose to him?

Speaker C: He said to you?

Speaker D: No, I did not. He said, oh, no, I know this. I know you young women. If you like a man, you will walk back and forth, back and forth so that you can be noticed. And I bet that's what you did to get him. Um, like, no, man, that's not what happened. But I want to talk also about his humility where there are so many moments. I remember one day we were at a friend's daughter's wedding. We are sitting at the table, so he's there with us and nobody was at the head table. So as he's getting ready to leave, he comes to our table, we were chatting and he says, please pardon me for interrupting. Hey, it's time for me to go. So I just thought I must come and say goodbye. Do you hear me? We must pardon him for interrupting us when you're talking.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I mean, who are we? You know, and also the other thing about him, when he walks into environment, he introduces himself. Oh, I'm Nelson Mandel. I'm like, really? Is there anybody who doesn't know you m. But there's somebody who does not take himself too seriously. He just thinks he's. Yeah, yeah. An amazing.

Speaker C: Do you think that's. That's shaped you, Nana, and how you conduct yourself?

Speaker D: Yes, without a doubt, without a doubt. Knowing and not taking myself too seriously. Number one. Secondly, understanding that, you know, you have to introduce. You can walk in there and assume people will know you introduce it, but also being kind of. Yes, there's nothing to be. Being kind to any and everybody. And also giving, you know, I've got my many moments of giving, random giving. And I'm still learning, by the way.

Speaker C: You're still learning?

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah, we all are. Uh, we all are, Nana. Just, uh. Do you think Mandela's leadership is relevant in the world today? And if so, why? If not, why not?

Speaker D: Not only is it relevant, I think it's required. Madima was a man of ethics. Yeah, without a doubt.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: All the time. Mhm. Integrity, caring. Mhm. And giving. Mhm. And again, understanding that it's not about you, it's about the people that you're leading. Yeah, he listened. And people should listen. But in the end, obviously you make the decision. But also just listen for the sake of. Because sometimes people listen, but you can see that this person pretends they were listening, but you can even see in their eyes that they're not.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: But, uh, we need that. We need to listen a little bit more. If you don't have emotional cushion, I think maybe it's time to buy it. But just be empathetic, you know, Be empathetic, but also be bold. Yeah. When it's time to make decisions and take decisions One must be bold because you cannot be vacillating things back and forth. But ethics, man, and integrity. We are in the world where corruption is the order of the day. Yeah. And as. That's why I say his leadership is required now, today. Because with all the things that we're seeing, by now, he would have all called into order.

Speaker C: That leads into my next question. You know, if Madiba was still alive today, what do you think he would say to the government today and to all of us? Okay. And what would he say? But also, uh, what do you think? Separate question. What do you think went wrong?

Speaker D: The first one would be, you know, Madiba was a man of understanding the importance of taking everybody seriously. And he was, you know, South Africa by the time we came with this rainbow nation. Yeah, it was his thing. Yeah, it was the thing. And he didn't just speak it, he practiced it wherever he was. The people that he was working around with, they were all racist. Even in the children's fund, when you look at the trustees, they were colored, Indian, black women, old and young. So everybody had and everybody got listened to. And, uh, it was always not about you, but about the country.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So that's something. And also, I mean, if you think about when he got into office, it was very clear to him that he needed to get the people to unite. But at the same time, he understood that government has to work.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: That's why he very strong Deputy president. Mhm. Who had the powers to really take South Africa from weight. It was to. Until the day this deputy president became president and left office. Yeah, he. He was that kind of person who was that. He would take care of the side of the business, but the country has to work, so somebody else has to do that. And we were all proud South Africans during those days.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: What would be saying now? Uh, he'd be so disappointed.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Disappointed in many ways. Because that rainbow nation, it's not as strong as it could have been. We are getting back to being polarized. Almost have black parties and white parties. I mean, I know it's changing a little bit, but we are not where we thought as a country we could be. The economy is growing very slowly. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. The horizon is very. Unemployment is rising and in the middle of it, you have corruption. Can I just be proud and say that we have to do something?

Speaker C: So if Mandela stood up at the next state of the nation, what do you think his core message would be?

Speaker D: Uh, his core message would probably be, where did we Go wrong. How did we get here? What is it that we were not seeing? That the path that we are taking is going to get us here? Because remember, where we are didn't start today. Where we are, uh, probably started maybe 15 years ago, if not more.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And gradually went on and the poor became poorer. We never expected that. Yeah. Polarized. That was not expected.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: We are not able to keep our people employed. Unemployment goes up, uh, every day.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: What are we not doing and what can be done? And as a matter of provisions, by the way. Yeah. I mean when you look at Johannesburg, our city. Johannesburg was the best city on the continent. Yeah. Not Cape Town.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: It was Johannes. Now we can't go to city center. What happened? Where were we when it happened? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's something we lament, but again, we cannot just lament. Something has to happen and it takes all of us to do that.

Speaker C: So you think that would be his message? Reflective questions. What can we do?

Speaker D: And probably even give matching orders. Probably even give matching orders in terms of this is where we're supposed to go and that's how we go. And, and probably even think about who are the people that are qualified to take us there. Mhm. Because I was talking to somebody about, I'm not going to mention the country but says in this particular country what they do is they select potential leaders. Mhm. And develop them and get them ready. And from their elect. We do the opposite. We elect anybody when we have elected anybody from that we are supposed to select. And what do we end up with? Yeah. What do we have? Yeah. Yeah. People with no integrity. People who almost are cold hearted. If um, people are. And you go take the money that are supposed to use to build hospital, the money is supposed to use to build schools and you buy yourself cars.

Speaker B: Yeah. And four homes.

Speaker D: Really.

Speaker C: So you know, Nana, you're a qualified lawyer, you've got very diverse experience across every sector. Just again, very briefly, what are the sort of key points that you think have contributed to where the country is now and where did it go wrong?

Speaker D: Um, you know, the first thing is not having bold leadership. Yeah. Because the people that we put in power, they got into power because of being favorites, not because talent, not because of their demonstrated ability to lead.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: It was popularity. So it was a popularity contest. The most popular person got to leave the country and that most popular person also had to make sure that those people that got them into office also get positions in office. Mhm. And then the rat started to happen gradually and gradually. So Every election is about who has the biggest purse. That's, uh, the person who. With the country, they'll bring their own people. And because people brought you there, you're not able to chastise them when they go wrong. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Something has to happen. Something has changed.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Like. Yes. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

Speaker C: Shifting to a slightly lighter note, just some three fun facts. I mean, there's so many wonderful qualities about dear, uh, Gabby. What was the. The thing that really sold you on Gabby as your life partner?

Speaker D: Oh, okay. First of all, he was smart. Yeah.

Speaker C: And.

Speaker D: But I think also he challenged me intellectually. Yeah. And I didn't realize that, but he says I also challenged him intellectually. But we love the same things. We love music.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Been to our party.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Like dancing like you.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: Yeah. Mini nights like that.

Speaker D: Yes. And. But also just. Just being. Meeting good people, learning about them. Always like to explore new people. When I meet, I want to know what people are doing, who are they learning from them. That's the one thing. But the other thing is we love traveling. Yes. Both travel. We've been lucky enough to travel to basically all the continents, but also in various countries and also just learning about different cultures.

Speaker C: What is it about young people that you and I saw, your granddaughter, you know, before we began today. What is it about young people that energizes you? Why do you like hanging out with them?

Speaker D: I like their curiosity.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I like their curiosity, and I like that they ask questions and they don't censor themselves. They ask questions. And then also see, uh, today's young kids, you know, with information being readily available, you know. You know, and when you grow up, whatever your teacher and your parents tell you, it's fact.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: When you talk to them, you tell them something, and they will come back to you with something you hadn't thought of. And so what I normally do is when I get into a point where when I thought I had it right, they correct me. I'm open to learn.

Speaker C: So. Third, fun fact. You've traveled a lot. What has been your favorite city in the world and why?

Speaker D: This is, uh, almost embarrassing. You know, I love New York.

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker D: I just love. You know, my friends don't understand them. So whenever there's a conference in. Okay, let me put it this way. Wherever I go to the usa, whether I'm going to Los Angeles, Miami, Seattle, I promise you, you have to fly through New York City to fly through to New York.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: And the other city, for a different reason that I found interesting and peaceful is Singapore, it's, that's. I mean it's a country to city. It's a country. I get enthusiastic about how I see things working in that country. It's beautiful. With no natural resources, they pride themselves by saying their asset, the biggest resource asset are human beings.

Speaker C: So in our sort of final few minutes together, Nana, uh, you know, bold leadership. What is your definition of bold? And, and any final thoughts around leading boldly into the future?

Speaker D: Because we live in this environment where there is so much changing and changing rapidly. For me a bold leader is the one who will be agile. Bearing in mind that things are changing very rapidly. And as you do that as a leadership, also have empathy because sometimes people are not able to be as agile as you are. So have that, that empathy. And earlier on I talk about uh, technology, embracing technology and really being comfortable with technology. You know, because if you don't embrace technology, not going to get you there. But also courageous conviction. Be willing to challenge the status quo.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Make places where you need disrupt to disrupt. Disrupt. But then again disrupt. But also be willing to build because you cannot disrupt and not uh, rebuild. Yeah, yeah. And inclusion, we do have to also really be open and listen and be inclusive.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: People that you should trust you they should trust and you trust them. And, and you know, when you trust people and when you make people understand that you trust them, they actually tend to give, give you back.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's true. It's a two way process, you know. So just. Yeah.

Speaker D: One big thing you don't want to leave this one out is integrity. Your moral compass must be does that which you live for. Yeah.

Speaker C: So my friend, it's always a joy. I could talk to you for hours and hours and I look forward to when we reconnect in person. But just any final thought you have around the future of leadership and what you would like to say about to our generation and the next.

Speaker D: The children. They're our future leaders. Right. They're the ones that are going to run the society. They're the ones that are going to drive our economy and shape the world.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: You know, so, so important for us to guide, educate and protect our children. So they should search. Yes, yes. You know, uh, we must be the generation that um, uh, give them leadership steps. But more importantly also by the way we have to create jobs. Because if we don't create jobs and good communities or give them the means

Speaker B: to create jobs and guidance.

Speaker D: Guidance is very important. Lead by example.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker D: Good morals. Give the kids education and developing them, you know, important values and empathy I keep rambling on this empathy thing because if you don't have you, you working like you're working with machine and you're not. We work with you things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker C: Nana, my friend, you know what a heartfelt thank you. You know, to a woman who absolutely leads by example, who exemplifies just that kindness you spoke about, that empathy that's so critical and that generosity of spirit. And thank you for bringing your wisdom to this message and movement. I so look forward to us doing so much more together, my friends. Friend, it's uh, it's been a while but I really look forward to us working together and collaborating and taking this message and movement further into the world.

Speaker D: Thank you very much. And you're just such an easy person to talk to you for that warm spirit. And the thing about you and is you are a loyal person, that's for sure. Even if you don't see each other for days, four months. But I know if I was to call you for anything, you'll be there for me, me and hopefully do the same for you. But thank you very much. I know this has been long in coming, but finally we have done it and I really enjoy this moment.

Speaker C: Wonderful. Thank you my friend.

Speaker D: Have a good weekend. Good luck to everything else that you're doing.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you, Nana.

Speaker B: Uh, one hospital visit, one crucible moment, and 12 years later, a state of the art Nelson Mandela's Children's hospital that changes and saves the lives of thousands of children. My good friend Nana Makomola, a global board director of the International Women's Forum, the deputy chairperson of the Nelson Mandela Children's Hospital Trust, shares a story, a remarkable story. It is not simply a story about generous philanthropy and an extraordinary institution in Nelson Mandela's Children's Hospital. It is also a masterclass and what Harvard's great leadership thinkers call crucible. Those intense life defining experiences that test our limits that either break us or forge us in life changing ways that ignite authentic and adaptive change. In 2005, Nelson Mandela visited a young boy admitted to the Chris Paine Baraguana Academic Hospital in Johannesburg, South Africa, the largest hospital in Africa. That little boy had been admitted with fatal third degree burns covering 90% of his body. Instead of being placed in a specialized unit burns unit in a children's ward, he landed up in excruciating pain next to an intimidating adult patient in a mixed ward. The little boy didn't make it. His passing and that hospital visit touched Mandela deeply. It became a Life defining moment, a crucible. Nelson Mandela is well known for his deep love of children and for founding the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund, which was established to change the way society sees and treats its children. That one hospital visit became a life defining moment, a crucible that ignited a mission, a mandate and a movement. A movement that led to more than $6 billion in donor funding and led to the building of a state of the art Nelson Mandela's children's hospital that 12 years later, uh, opened its doors to children, all children, irrespective of their means, to ensure that children were treated in a specialized, state of the art children's hospital. My Harvard Business School professors, Bill George and Scott Snook, whose transformative course in authentic leadership transformed the way I think act and lead, built their teachings on a profound idea from Warren Bennis and Robert Thomas that the greatest leaders are forged in crucibles. Crucibles can be devastating, they can be awe inspiring, but they are always defining. Nana Makomola's Mandela moment, a life defining crucible, leaves us with five bold leadership takeaways. Firstly, crucibles are part of your leadership story. Recognize and reflect upon them. Secondly, crucibles help clarify your values and define your purpose. What do you care deeply about? What are you willing to fight for? What are you willing to compromise on or not? Thirdly, crucibles are not random number four. They galvanize action. Nelson Mandela walked into that ward as a global statesman. He walked out a man on fire with a mission, a mandate, and ignited a movement. And finally, Mandela's adaptive leadership is more relevant than ever in this turbulent and highly conflicted world. A world trying to deal with revolutionary change. With AI with a climate crisis and never ending and census wars, we need a proven and powerful new way to think, act and lead and inspire, um, hope today. So until next time, remember that leading boldly is about making these thoughtful, clear choices. And bold leadership is about taking bold action just one small step at a time. One step for you. But together, as you recognize and reflect on these crucibles, these life defining moments, a, uh, giant step for humanity. Take care and take thoughtful, bold action.

Speaker A: Never move. Here's an episode of Leading Boldly into the future. To learn more from your host, Ann Pratt and her influential guests, the world's most inspiring industry leaders, bold disruptors and courageous change makers. Discover your full leadership potential. Go to ann-pratt.com that's a n n e-p r a t t.com and and connect with her on LinkedIn. You too can take bold action, inspire hope and soar to unimagined heights. Because you are the future of leadership.