Power, Purpose, and Progress: Expanding the Face of Leadership

1 - >

Speaker 1: Welcome to Leadership Reimagined, where game changing conversations are reshaping 2 - > the world of work. I'm Janis LG CEO and founder 3 - > of l A Group Executive Search advisors and pioneers in 4 - > redefining executive search through our unwavering commitment to helping organizations 5 - > hire exceptional leaders and build inclusive environments. Today, on Leadership Reimagined, 6 - > we explore power, purpose and progress, expanding the face of leadership. 7 - > I am delighted to welcome Sharon Bowen, Chair of the 8 - > New York Stock Exchange, Director of Intercontinental Exchange, and Board 9 - > director of Newburger, Burman and Alchemi Technologies. Over the course 10 - > of her remarkable career spanning more than thirty five years, 11 - > Sharon has become a respected voice in finance, regulation and 12 - > public policy. Her leadership journey has included serving as a 13 - > partner in the New York office of Latham and Watkins, 14 - > vice Chair and Acting Chair of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, 15 - > and Commissioner of the US Commodity's Futures Trading Commission, where 16 - > she helped shape policy at some of the most pivotal 17 - > moments in modern financial history. Sharon, You've had a full 18 - > plate in your career with so many things to cover. 19 - > So I'm pleased to welcome you and excited to have 20 - > this conversation. 21 - >

Speaker 2: I'm delighted to be here, Jannis. I'm really excited about 22 - > this as well. 23 - >

Speaker 1: Great, before we get into a lot of the details 24 - > of your career, I want to start with your early 25 - > life in Chesapeake, Virginia, because you grew up during a 26 - > time of enormous social change, and you've talked about those 27 - > experiences that really shaped your views on justice, education, and 28 - > service and led you to the career where you are today. 29 - > So talk to us about some of the impact of 30 - > those social issues. 31 - >

Speaker 2: So, as you mentioned, I grew up in Chestafake, Virginia, 32 - > in a small, segregated, all black community. I attended an 33 - > all black elementary school, the same school that my brothers 34 - > and sisters had attended, and so I was fortunate to 35 - > have the same teachers. 36 - >

Speaker 3: That they had at a really early age. 37 - >

Speaker 2: And I like to start with that story because there 38 - > was a combination of the teachers, the family members, and 39 - > the community at that time that really gave me a 40 - > sense of confidence in myself. As you mentioned, this was 41 - > during the time just before Virginia had forced desegregation of 42 - > a school. So eighth grade is when I got bussed 43 - > to an all white middle school. And so by the 44 - > time I was bussed to an all white school, I 45 - > was pretty confident in terms of my ability. I had 46 - > excelled academically in school. You know, I saw my parents 47 - > and neighbors fight for civil rights. During that time. I 48 - > personally witness you know, cross burnings and those sort of 49 - > symbols of our country. Thank goodness is no longer. But 50 - > that gave me a sense of resilience, and I knew 51 - > education was really key. You know, my parents, obviously in 52 - > family fought so hard to make that day possible for me. 53 - >

Speaker 3: So education was really important. 54 - >

Speaker 1: And you started right at the University of Virginia and 55 - > you thought maybe English should be your major, but you 56 - > went to economics and then went on to earn your 57 - > law degree and MBA from Northwestern where you after that 58 - > joined Davis Polk in the early nineteen eighties. And even 59 - > at that time, very few women and very few black 60 - > women on Wall Street. So what do you remember about 61 - > walking into those rooms early in your career a woman? 62 - >

Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the good news is I had a little 63 - > bit of practice because that actually when I went to 64 - > the University of Virginia. I was in the fourth entering 65 - > class of women in the college, even though this is 66 - > in the seventies. And obviously when I did my joint 67 - > degree at Northwestern, there were very few students frankly doing 68 - > a combination JD NBA, let alone women, let alone you know, 69 - > people of color. So by the time I got to 70 - > Wall Street, the notion of walking into a room being 71 - > the only it was something I was somewhat familiar with. 72 - > But you know, having said that, we kind of learned 73 - > quickly that we needed to help each other. I mean, 74 - > being a lawyer on Wall Street is hard to begin with. 75 - > And frankly, so many of my good friends to this 76 - > day are people that I started my career with. But 77 - > it was not lonely in the sense that there were 78 - > a handful of other again, very successful, really smart black lawyers, 79 - > you know, at the firm at the time, and you know, 80 - > we helped to mentor each other and to. 81 - >

Speaker 3: Support each other as well. 82 - >

Speaker 2: And I just you know, I was fortunate to have 83 - > a great education, so I felt again pretty confident working 84 - > in a law firm environment at that time. And frankly, 85 - > you mentioned, you know, I thought I was going to 86 - > major in English. I didn't think I was going to 87 - > even be a lawyer, to be honest with if you 88 - > you know, hav't spent a summer with one of the 89 - > investment banks and had gotten an offer, and thought I 90 - > would do this practice of law for a couple of 91 - > years and then you know, leave a couple of years 92 - > later and become an investment banker and retired the age 93 - > of thirty. But a funny thing happened along the way. 94 - > I actually learned to love, you know, the practice of law. 95 - > You know, during those early years, I really did well. 96 - >

Speaker 1: You've been a champion of others. It sounds like you 97 - > had champions along the way as well, So talk to 98 - > us a little bit about what those champions did for you. 99 - > You sound like you were pretty self confident from your education. 100 - > You could walk into a room and know who you were, 101 - > but there had to be then others that were championing you, 102 - > which then led you to champion others. 103 - >

Speaker 3: Oh. 104 - >

Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, I've had mentors throughout my life. And 105 - > even though I said I was confident walking in the room, 106 - > doesn't mean I wasn't afraid of the work in front 107 - > of me. So, you know, fortunately there were a couple 108 - > of really young associates who were former U grads who 109 - > took me under their wings to teach me how to draft, 110 - > how to draft like a lawyer. And that was sort 111 - > of a really critical skill. Because I had the business degree, 112 - > I was really comfortable working in the capital markets, and 113 - > so I did underwriting quite quite early and worked with 114 - > some of the major investment banks at the time. And 115 - > so but that that confidence was boosted by you know, 116 - > people sort of pushing me along and my asking questions. 117 - > I mean, it was you know, it was a time 118 - > where you know, unlike today, I guess it's twenty four 119 - > seven today, But you know, in those days, almost spent 120 - > the night at law firms, still working extremely hard. 121 - >

Speaker 3: And so I made really great friends. 122 - >

Speaker 2: And so throughout my career, you know, I called my 123 - > mentor sort of my you know, personal board of directors. 124 - >

Speaker 3: So there are people that I trust. 125 - >

Speaker 2: There are people I call up for sanity checks to say, 126 - > you know, this happened to me. 127 - >

Speaker 3: Was it me or was it them? 128 - >

Speaker 2: Or you know, I got this opportunity, Should I take 129 - > this opportunity or not? So mentors and sponsors were so 130 - > critical Franklin, even some of the decisions I made and 131 - > you know, I remember being at my law firm later 132 - > at the time being offered to work one of the 133 - > commissions when Michael Bloomberg was the mayor. And you know, 134 - > when I went to one of my my partners, he said, well, 135 - > you know, Sharon, it's great to do something for the city, 136 - > but I don't think that's your expertise. Why don't you 137 - > go back and see if you can work on the 138 - > Economic Development Corporation? 139 - >

Speaker 3: And I did. 140 - >

Speaker 2: I said, you know what you asked me to do, 141 - > thank you, but can I do this instead? And so so, 142 - > mentors and sponsors, will you have the ability to kind 143 - > of see the world in a way that you don't 144 - > see it yourselves. And so, because I've been so fortunate, 145 - > you know, I myself, I get a great joy out 146 - > of mentoring other people and seeing them succeeds. Well, it's 147 - > it's I've been fortunate. So it's important to me to 148 - > reach back. And frankly, I learned from my mentees, you know, 149 - > I've learned so much for them, and the opportunity I 150 - > got to work in the Obama administration came from a 151 - > former mentee who. 152 - >

Speaker 3: Was working right. 153 - >

Speaker 1: So interesting that. 154 - >

Speaker 2: Phone call actually came from a mentee who you know, 155 - > asked like, would I be interested in being in an administration? 156 - > And I said no, thank you. That's great because I 157 - > didn't want to leave New York at the time and 158 - > I loved my practice. And she was smart enough to 159 - > call me back four weeks later to say, we found 160 - > something for you. Would you be interested in being a 161 - > vice chair of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation? 162 - >

Speaker 1: So it's hard to turn down, right, that's really can't 163 - > turn down the president. 164 - >

Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you this story. 165 - >

Speaker 2: I didn't really know who the Securities Investor Protection Corporation did, 166 - > so I had to google it and discuss it with 167 - > my partners, and that turned out to be again, a 168 - > really great decision and a great way for me to 169 - > you know, to start in the process of government service 170 - > as well. And you know, she protected me from like 171 - > making a stupid mistake and saying no, and was something. 172 - >

Speaker 3: That actually worked for me. So I'm really grateful. 173 - >

Speaker 1: But you were a partner at Lathaman Watkins, right, we 174 - > made it in nineteen ninety one, so you reached that 175 - > pinnacle on Wall Street and then you leave. That must 176 - > have been quite an adjustment, right to go into the government. 177 - >

Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, it was, but you know, in a 178 - > funny kind of way. So during the Great Financial Crisis, 179 - > I was a young partner, you know, at the firm, 180 - > and you know, we lost clients. You know, I saw 181 - > people lose their jobs and their life savings, and you know, 182 - > it was a hard time for our country at the time, 183 - > and so I kind of had to retrain myself to 184 - > become a restructuring lawyer. 185 - >

Speaker 3: As opposed Tom there. 186 - >

Speaker 2: Was no eminy work that we retrained ourselves to become 187 - > restructuring lawyers. And so little did I know that that 188 - > skill set came in handy and working for CIPIC because 189 - > that agency was created to protect pustower accounts at broker 190 - > dealers and firs during that time. We were talking during 191 - > the bankruptcies of Lehman Brothers and made Off and MF Global, 192 - > so some of the biggest you know bankruptcies you know, 193 - > our time. So the transition was a little bit easier 194 - > because I actually knew what it did. I knew how 195 - > important it was to be in that to be in 196 - > that role, and I you know, I was really honored 197 - > to be able to sit in that seat. 198 - >

Speaker 1: And you've said you wanted to represent the underrepresented so 199 - > tell us a little bit more about a President Obama 200 - > calls you, you take on the role as vice chair 201 - > of Securities Investor Protection Corporation, what did you do to 202 - > make an impact there? 203 - >

Speaker 2: So one of the first things that I did wasn't 204 - > me alone, you know, the other commissiress as well. What 205 - > we did was we opened our doors to hear from 206 - > the public. We literally open up a huge auditorium in 207 - > one of the hotel rooms here in New York, and 208 - > we had people come in to talk to us, to 209 - > tell us what happened to them and to hear their stories. 210 - > So I heard kind of firsthand what had happened to people. 211 - > Those stories really inspired me to try to do something 212 - > to help, you know, in the sense that they didn't 213 - > do anything wrong, they didn't cause a financial crisis, and yet. 214 - >

Speaker 3: They suffered really the most. There was no bail out 215 - > for them. 216 - >

Speaker 2: When I joined the second term, when I was asked 217 - > to become a Commissioner of the Commodity Features Training Commission, 218 - > I knew that that was extremely important because I would 219 - > be implementing sort of new rules under dark frame to 220 - > create a market that was no longer opaque, you know, 221 - > the opaque dark market that created or at least exacerbated 222 - > the financial crisis to create rules and regulations to bring 223 - > transparency and fairness to those markets. And so during my 224 - > confirmation sharing, and really throughout my whole time as a commissioner, 225 - > I always viewed my rulemaking through the lens of those 226 - > people who didn't have a seat at the table. 227 - >

Speaker 3: That was really important to me, and. 228 - >

Speaker 2: That's really how I got to Those words meant something 229 - > in the sense of that's the way I operated as 230 - > a commissioner. 231 - >

Speaker 1: So you know, as we talked to our clients today 232 - > in corporate world, and they'll say, yeah, we're very clients, 233 - > we're listening to our clients. But you really did that. 234 - > I mean, you went grass roots to say how did 235 - > this impact you? What happened? You were you were listening 236 - > to what they had gone through? Yeah, yes, and so 237 - > then what could you do as a government official to 238 - > help them? 239 - >

Speaker 3: Right exactly? 240 - >

Speaker 2: Yeah, And I took that. I took that same approach 241 - > to as a commissioner. So you know, one of the 242 - > things I did was create a new committee called the 243 - > Market Risk Advisory Committee at the time, and one of 244 - > the first things I did was I made sure that 245 - > the advisors on that committee were people who came from 246 - > public interest groups, from academia, you know, the market users, 247 - > the end users, the market participants. I wanted to hear 248 - > from everyone, to have a seat at the table to 249 - > talk about like how to put rules in place to 250 - > protect us, but at the same time to not overly 251 - > burden the markets, to make sure our markets were still efficient, 252 - > and also frankly, we needed to rebuild credibility and trust 253 - > in them markets back in that day. So I spent 254 - > a lot of time engaging myself with our fellow regulators 255 - > and with regulators outside of the US. But it was 256 - > a little bit different in seeing how the sausage is 257 - > made in Washington. It is a different process. 258 - >

Speaker 1: You know. 259 - >

Speaker 2: It's been in that role and it you know, my expertise, fully, 260 - > I think helped because I understood how the markets worked. 261 - > I understood what those instruments were exacerbated, you know, the 262 - > financial crisis. So I kind of walked in with my 263 - > eyes wide open. But at the same time, we've always 264 - > wanted to hear from others as to how can we get. 265 - >

Speaker 1: This right right Because you'd been a partner at a 266 - > law firm, but you worked with the investment banks, you 267 - > knew what those instruments were. You knew how the markets worked. 268 - > So here you go into a government position and then 269 - > you say, wait a minute, maybe we're not working as 270 - > well as we should for the constituents we're serving. So 271 - > what are you most proud of when you look back 272 - > over those years in terms of what you changed and 273 - > where you think there's greater trust now or oversight which 274 - > is benefiting the public. 275 - >

Speaker 2: So one of the things I didn't realize that regulators 276 - > didn't talk to each other and that there was sort 277 - > of competition between the CFTC and the SEC. And I 278 - > made it a point to get to know the commissioners, 279 - > you know, at the SEC and at the FDIC and 280 - > regulators outside of the US, because you know, mind you 281 - > this was a global financial crisis, right, and you know, 282 - > some of our regulators outside of the US were not 283 - > too happy with US sort of rushing to make rules 284 - > without really engaging them as much as they wanted to 285 - > be engaged. So I spent a lot of time kind 286 - > of rebuilding trust with those regulators to say, like, we're 287 - > not trying to cram down rules to enforce on you. 288 - > We need your input as well. We need the financial 289 - > crisis didn't stop at our borders. Okay, it crossed across 290 - > the globe, and so we need global solutions. And so 291 - > I would say probably one of the mo some important 292 - > things I did was to really engage fellow regulators and 293 - > others to bring them to their table as well. 294 - >

Speaker 1: And so, do you think that what you have done 295 - > has this stickiness there that that's still happening. 296 - >

Speaker 2: Well, let's not go on wood. Let's put it this way. 297 - > It won't be the financial crisis we had before. And hopefully, 298 - > and I do think, you know, financial markets are really 299 - > way much more resilient, way strong, or way better. There's 300 - > trust back in the markets, the innovation is still there. 301 - > There's still smart people in government, you know, who are 302 - > making the rules. And so I'm hoping that the roadmap 303 - > that we set and we didn't get everything one hundred 304 - > percent right and some rules had to be tweaked, you 305 - > know as well, because you were doing this for the 306 - > first time, and in terms of putting guardrails in place 307 - > that they weren't there before. Even today, that's there's no 308 - > magic science to like the right balance of protection of 309 - > customers but having innovation at the same time so that balance, 310 - > you know, there's always going to be that tension this day, 311 - > and that also, frankly, I think creates a really healthy marketplace. 312 - >

Speaker 1: I recently heard a CEO of a major investment bank say, 313 - > you know, we will always be a crisis. There'll always 314 - > be something coming up down the road. But what we 315 - > have in place today the two of the mechanisms to 316 - > protect us better than prior than during the financial crisis. So, 317 - > but you still have to be prepared, and you have 318 - > to have people who are knowledgeable in each of these seats. 319 - > And you were You've worked across legal, you've worked regulatory, 320 - > Wall Street government. What are those principles that guided you? 321 - > And you've said a little bit about this in terms 322 - > of talking to the customer the people, What are the 323 - > principles guided you? 324 - >

Speaker 2: So I would say, you know, integrity, not just personal integrity, 325 - > but the importance of building integrity and our markets. And 326 - > then what that kind of comes you know, full transparency. Frankly, 327 - > that was true even as a partner the law firm. 328 - > It you know, it shouldn't that be a mystery too, 329 - > and associate as to what it takes to become a 330 - > partner at the law firm. That shouldn't be this sort 331 - > of like black box. We should be able to articulate 332 - > the skill sets that are necessary, and we should invest 333 - > in making sure that those assoces, you know, I have 334 - > the right tools to succeed. 335 - >

Speaker 3: And I would say, you. 336 - >

Speaker 2: Know, the other you know, which I kind of touch 337 - > on too, is this sense of collaboration teamwork is so 338 - > critically important in government and financial services law firms. I 339 - > mean it just really we can't like make decisions in 340 - > a vacuum, and frankly, we all know like better decisions 341 - > than mad when you've got different viewpoints, you know, at 342 - > the table. But I would say the sense of collaboration 343 - > and integrity and being true to yourself, you know, as 344 - > a person, that's sort of been a guidance light for me. 345 - >

Speaker 1: And so now serving on several corporate boards, you brought 346 - > that same collaboration integrity to robust discussions around the boardroom table, 347 - > including being a chair of the NYC and direct of Newburger, 348 - > Vernma and Akamai Technologies, and also co chairing the NYC 349 - > NYC Board Advisory Council. So talk to us about board 350 - > leadership and what's so important do you think for all 351 - > board members to have as chair and then as a director. 352 - >

Speaker 2: Well, first you know, sitting on a board as a privilege. 353 - > I mean it really is as a privilege to do that. 354 - > I'm really fortunate to be sitting in the seat to 355 - > be chair of the New York stckety because I get 356 - > to bring all my passions for the financial markets and 357 - > efficient markets and serving the public interest in a way 358 - > that really excites me. And you mentioned, you know, the 359 - > our board advisory service. That was part of a solution 360 - > for us to make sure that our list of companies 361 - > had the resources to have diverse boards, have women and 362 - > minorities on their boards. And so we created that council 363 - > with the view we had CEOs nominate individuals who would 364 - > be board ready because, as you know, Jennis, a lot 365 - > of what happens in the world is sort of who 366 - > you know. And so I was like, who would you recommend? Right, 367 - > So we asked them to recommend people who were board 368 - > ready and they did a great job, and we had 369 - > forty five people in the first year. And said that 370 - > was good. You know, it's ninety eight percent women women. 371 - > Said that was good, guys, but we really want some 372 - > more diversity as well. So they went back to their 373 - > own board and I say, guys, because they're all guys, 374 - > and they did a great job and came back and 375 - > so that you know, that grew from forty five people 376 - > to over twelve hundred people we have in our database today, 377 - > which is a resource for a list of companies to 378 - > you know, to pull from. I just wanted to make 379 - > sure that there was no one who said we can't 380 - > find anyone, we can't find a woman, we can't find 381 - > a qualified minority. 382 - >

Speaker 3: We want to solve for that. And so that's being 383 - > a problem solver. 384 - >

Speaker 2: It's really what being a board member really is is 385 - > sitting in a seat to kind of solve problems and 386 - > sort of what that What that means though, is you've 387 - > got to be able to learn about the company. You've 388 - > got to they able to see like who are the 389 - > stakeholders of the business, what's the business all about? So 390 - > there is a level of knowing what the company does. 391 - > I always joke with people when I say I ask 392 - > them what kind of board, they say, like any board. 393 - > It's like, well that's not the right answer, that's right, 394 - > That is just not the right answer. Like you know what, 395 - > like you know, you want to be intentional about like 396 - > what excites you? What things do you want to learn 397 - > about what value can you actually bring to the table. 398 - > The other thing that's that's really great about you know, 399 - > board leadership and services. I get to learn from so 400 - > many other people who serve on other boards and so 401 - > we get to it's like a five will of effect 402 - > where you bring your best practices that you've seen at 403 - > other companies and you share that with others and so 404 - > there's a network and we bring that here, you know, 405 - > to the Soccer Exchange for our list of companies to 406 - > you know, bring best practices. You know, we have a 407 - > I think a session later this week on AI for 408 - > people coming to talk about that is you know, it's 409 - > a topic that's in every boardroom. 410 - >

Speaker 3: You know, this matter, but you know, but it really. 411 - >

Speaker 2: Is, you know, board service really is about you know, leadership, 412 - > and it's about listening and it's about good judgment. But 413 - > it really is at the same time a real honor 414 - > because you're you're extremely visible in that seat and you're 415 - > accountable in that seat, and so it comes with work 416 - > and commitment, you know. 417 - >

Speaker 1: At the same time, well, you know, I think today 418 - > it's much harder, much more difficult, much more complex, not 419 - > just the speed of change, but the magnitude of change 420 - > for CEOs and for board directors. And so we have 421 - > a board Academy boot camp that I acquired for Maggie 422 - > wilder Ter and aspiring board directors are there and we're 423 - > talking about what you did and what you accomplished was great, 424 - > but how you know, how will you fit in what 425 - > that board needs now? Right? And so every board, looking 426 - > at specifically, you know, every seat has to the whole 427 - > has to be greater than some of its parts, and 428 - > you know, oftentimes beyond what scific like a QFE or 429 - > a cyber or you know just a great former CEO 430 - > or an individual who really knows digitization. And a lot 431 - > of this does come down to that judgment, the critical thinking, right, 432 - > that collaboration. And so when you look at your boards, 433 - > those discussions, those robust discussions really make for better decision making. Right, 434 - > but while not getting into the operations, you're strategically doing that. 435 - > So talk a little bit about how those I don't 436 - > even call them soft skills anymore, their critical skills, how 437 - > they really impact an organization and help the CEO of First. 438 - >

Speaker 2: I want to commend you for the great work you're 439 - > doing with the boot camp. That's that just really it's 440 - > so meaningful and so impactful. So you know, thank you 441 - > so much for doing that as well. But you're right, 442 - > I mean, so you know you're due to a strategic 443 - > oversight and having analytical skills. You know, that's that lose 444 - > it for or what fit means? You know, what does 445 - > fit really mean to be on a board? 446 - >

Speaker 3: Right? 447 - >

Speaker 2: So part of it is like, like, who's that person 448 - > that you know is going to roll up their sleeves 449 - > and do the hard work. Who is going to be 450 - > an entrenchious with you, Who's going to be that voice 451 - > of common reason, Who's going to be able to look 452 - > at the pros and cons who is going to think 453 - > about you know, the company and not just the company 454 - > but the shareholders obviously, but companies are employees. You know, 455 - > there are many different stakeholders and as you know the 456 - > role of corporations is broaden and change in so many 457 - > ways that the accountability kind of goes much further the 458 - > communities we serve, the quality of the products and services 459 - > that we bring, and so someone who can kind of 460 - > think big picture strategically and think about not just that 461 - > one little thing, not that one air of expertise, even 462 - > though that's important to have and clearly you can always 463 - > hire experts to train the board in most words, to 464 - > do do that obviously as well. It really is the 465 - > analytical skills, that strategic thinking and the chemistry. 466 - >

Speaker 3: The chemistry is. 467 - >

Speaker 2: Hard to like put that in a word, but it's 468 - > sort of like the again, that person who's going to 469 - > becolm under pressure, but who's going to think big picture 470 - > and think about what of scenarios and be prepared to 471 - > support management and to help the company make hard, hard 472 - > decisions like when you decide to transform a business, you know, 473 - > is that the right thing to do? 474 - >

Speaker 3: When you decide to make. 475 - >

Speaker 2: A strategic acquisition, how is that going to affect the 476 - > culture of the company. You know, there's so many different 477 - > variables that you need to really think about. So you 478 - > want a board member who kind of sees a big picture, 479 - > who has sort of that that touch if you will, 480 - > to be able to do that, and some of that 481 - > just frankly comes with practice. 482 - >

Speaker 3: I'm a much better board member today than I was 483 - > five years ago. Right, Yeah, it comes with experiences as well. Yeah, 484 - > it really does well. 485 - >

Speaker 1: And you know your career took you and had many iterations. 486 - > Part of that critical thinking and the skills you bring 487 - > is strategically looking at the problem. Solving is an amalgamation 488 - > of having had different experiences. If somebody's too narrow, right, 489 - > I think that's that's not really ideal board member, right, 490 - > I mean you need to think broadly. 491 - >

Speaker 2: Yes, No, And in fact, you know, even as a 492 - > corporate lawyer, I avoid I actually buy boards their strategy 493 - > as well to give them pros and con So I've 494 - > been in the boardroom, but as a paid advisor, right, 495 - > you know, instead and as a corporate lawyer, you know, 496 - > I helped write laws, so I you know, understand rules 497 - > and regulations and guidelines you know, as well and having 498 - > a cultural compliance and what that really means how to 499 - > deal with government officials and other regulators if you're in 500 - > a regulated industry. And so, yes, you're absolutely right, those 501 - > are all kind of different. And really, fortunately because I've 502 - > had so many different lenses that, you know, I'm able 503 - > to bring sort of those different skill sets to the word. 504 - > And if you talk to any litigator, they'll tell you 505 - > that a good litigator can litigate any subject better. I'm 506 - > not a litigator, but if you talk to a litigator, 507 - > they will tell you that. 508 - >

Speaker 1: Right, you've been a strong advocate for women's economic empowerment 509 - > through your work with organizations including Senega Women. Where do 510 - > you see the great biggest barriers for women in business 511 - > and finance today? Have we come as far as we 512 - > can and should? What else do we need to do? 513 - >

Speaker 3: Again? 514 - >

Speaker 2: It's been a delight and privilege to work with Ambassador 515 - > Milam Vivier, who was the first ambassador for women and 516 - > girls in Kim Azarelli, who's a former mentee of mine 517 - > and a former client of mine as well Lathom, So 518 - > that's been a real joy. We've made a lot of progress, 519 - > trust me, well, I mean the numbers. You can look 520 - > at the numbers and see we made great strides. And 521 - > we saw for some of the things that were like education, 522 - > there used to be an education gap. 523 - >

Speaker 3: That's not there anymore. 524 - >

Speaker 2: You know, they're more to go into business schools and 525 - > law schools than men, So that's not a barrier anymore. 526 - > We don't have to say women don't know about business 527 - > the entry level positions. Again, I think companies do a 528 - > good job of bringing in women at a proportion of 529 - > minorities at a proportionate level in terms of representation. I 530 - > think though, the place where we haven't solved for is 531 - > sort of that that mid level, sort of that seven 532 - > year critical point in one's career where either it's sort 533 - > of the make or big kind of stages and you 534 - > have to decide. I mean, even for me deciding I 535 - > wanted to be a partner, I had to make it. 536 - > I had to be intentional about wanting to become a 537 - > partner and then telling people that I wanted to become 538 - > a partner. And so, you know, part of it is 539 - > having that voice to tell people what it is that 540 - > you need and telling people what you want. And I 541 - > think women now have that voice, but I think we 542 - > need more women sort of in that middle tier in 543 - > the C suite just below the C suite and in 544 - > the c suite O office. So it would be great, 545 - > and we haven't quite solved for that yet. I'm working 546 - > that's a work in progress for me, frankly that I've 547 - > been working with one of my colleagues because I think 548 - > we've done a good job solving for the board representation, 549 - > but more we definitely need a lot more women CEOs. 550 - >

Speaker 3: We need more women entrepreneurs. 551 - >

Speaker 2: And you know, one of the things that we discovered, 552 - > you know, particularly with cynical women and trying to work 553 - > with women entrepreneurs. Is a small percentage of venture capital 554 - > money goes to women entrepreneurs, right, so we've got to 555 - > sort of break that access to capital. That's a big, 556 - > big bearrier that's still there. Frankly, we have more women 557 - > who can also contribute to funds. I would say the 558 - > other bearer that we have is that now that we 559 - > have some women in the seat, you always told women 560 - > your job is to bring more women to the table, 561 - > you know, So that's helping to kind of broaden the 562 - > lens and to make sure that if you're a woman 563 - > in a seat, your job is to make sure that 564 - > you're mentoring and sponsoring that next woman and making sure 565 - > that next woman is going to succeed as well. But 566 - > we also know that the play field because it's not 567 - > as level as we get older, a particular, with the 568 - > tall bear years or society has not yet figured out 569 - > how to deal with tall care and healthcare and to 570 - > provide resources where people don't have to make choices between 571 - > careers and families. And I think that's that's the bear 572 - > is not really the right word to use because it 573 - > sounds bad, but it's just a fact. There are some 574 - > obstacles that are structurally there the societal and some of 575 - > that could be biases that young women get to stay 576 - > home because they're the nicest people. 577 - >

Speaker 3: I don't know. 578 - >

Speaker 2: I know lots of men who are great stay at 579 - > home guys, while there's a great stay at home parents. 580 - >

Speaker 3: I think again that myth. 581 - >

Speaker 2: I mean even you know, men used to not take 582 - > paternity leave because that was frowned upon. Men do that today. 583 - > So we're making some strides. We definitely still have We've 584 - > still got a long way to go. I'm hoping you 585 - > come up with a solution. 586 - >

Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it takes all of us, you know, 587 - > and many of the organizations we belong to and support 588 - > and you know for young women and women under represent 589 - > women and giving them the monies to go back to school. 590 - > So I think there are a lot of organizations out there, 591 - > and I think that you know, companies are recognizing that 592 - > they do need to represent all constituents, you know, their employees, 593 - > their customers, their communities, and their shareholders. And so that's 594 - > why you know that middle and there's leakage there and 595 - > that that McKinsey report, lean In report shows every year 596 - > we lose a lot of women in the middle. The 597 - > more that we can you know, focus on what once 598 - > you recognize you have a problem, you sort of like say, okay, 599 - > what are we all going to do about this? Individually 600 - > and collectively? Right, So you can't boil the ocean, but 601 - > you can nip away at this. And I think, you know, 602 - > I think there are a lot of women's groups and 603 - > including what you're doing as a board director and the 604 - > women that you're helping. So I'm going to be positive 605 - > about it. But it's still a big hill to climb, right, 606 - > So we just have to continue to do it. So 607 - > speaking of that hill to climb, especially you know women 608 - > of color starting out, what advice do you have to 609 - > give to them? 610 - >

Speaker 2: Sharing may even be advice I would give to men 611 - > as well, which you have to kind of define your 612 - > own measure of success. You know, there's a tendency you know, 613 - > when you walk in the room, as you said, like 614 - > the only woman, the only person of color, or the 615 - > youngest person in the room. People can make assessments based 616 - > on how you look. And so you want to make 617 - > sure that you've you've already said for yourself what your 618 - > measures of success are because there will be some people 619 - > who may bring obstacles in the way or who may 620 - > doubt you, and you'll know. I've known when I've had 621 - > clients doubt my capabilities and kind of since it in 622 - > the room. And so what you do is you just 623 - > you shine, You double down and you just do it better. 624 - > And so you know those clients who doubted me, you know, 625 - > midway in a deal, they said, you're sharing. We had 626 - > our doubts about you, but you're the best we ever had. 627 - > I said, yeah, I know you feel it. I mean, 628 - > you're just really conscious about it. Define your own success. 629 - > Don't let other people judge you in that sense. And 630 - > I would say you pay yourself. You know, there's so 631 - > much pressure to do everything right all the time, and 632 - > particularly one of color, were always raised to say you 633 - > have to be twice as good to get to where 634 - > you are, and so that's that double pressure to be 635 - > twice as good. And so I would say, make sure 636 - > again you pay yourself, because careers are really like marathons, 637 - > and you don't want to get burned out too soon. 638 - > And the final thing I would say is don't quit 639 - > too soon. I think a lot of us quit too 640 - > soon when it gets harder, when people have put obstacles 641 - > in our way. We don't get that promotion that we 642 - > thought we should have gotten or we quit too so 643 - > and so keep fighting for your dreams and hold on 644 - > to your dreams and your commitment to yourself that would 645 - > be my to them. 646 - >

Speaker 1: And learn from those that came before us right like you, 647 - > and stand on other people's shoulders about it can be done. 648 - > It can't, but the confidence level has to be there. 649 - > So see you know, seeking out good supporters as you've had. 650 - > So when you look back on your journey, what do 651 - > you hope about your story? What will make it possible 652 - > for others and the legacy that you know you want 653 - > in terms of when people speak about you. 654 - >

Speaker 2: Well, I hope that I've inspired other people. I wear 655 - > my visibility, my visibility proudly. I know when people see me, 656 - > you know, whether I'm on the podium, you know, bringing 657 - > the bell with a company, or from doing a speech 658 - > in front of a group mentoring people. I know how 659 - > visible I am in so it's important for me to 660 - > continue to be that example of that person who is 661 - > not afraid to do the hard stuff, who actually relish 662 - > the challenge of finding a great solution to a problem. 663 - > And I'm hoping that, you know, they'll be remembered as 664 - > someone who you know did a great job and who 665 - > care for oathers. But more importantly, I'm hoping that that 666 - > the legacy. I'm still building it, so I'm going to 667 - > make sure I don't mess it up along the way. 668 - >

Speaker 3: Along the way. 669 - >

Speaker 1: No, I don't think you're going to do that. You're 670 - > too conscious of your place in the world and your words, 671 - > and so I just commend you for all you've done 672 - > and Sharon, and I think you know the audience can 673 - > look to you through the work you've done in corporate law, 674 - > financial regulation, governance advocacy. You truly helped not only markets 675 - > and institutions, but the broader conversation around inclusion, representation, economic empowerment. 676 - > Listening to clients when you were at the Commission, I 677 - > mean your leadership continues to inspire women, people of color, 678 - > but all aspiring leaders to believe that they can reach 679 - > the highest levels, and you're helping them do that by example. 680 - > So thank you for joining us today sharing your extraordinary story. 681 - > You're wisdom, your vision for a more inclusive future and 682 - > really changing the landscape in the corporate world and in government. 683 - >

Speaker 3: Thank you so much, it's been a pleasure talking to you. 684 - >

Speaker 1: Thank you, Sharon, and thank you to our audience for 685 - > tuning in to another game changing conversation on leadership reimagined. 686 - > You can find me on LinkedIn or visit us at 687 - > elagroup dot com. Thank you for joining us today. Nothing 688 - > are hating Animating the health, the money holding Animating Co.