Danny Nelson - The Winvic Way

00:00:00:12 - 00:00:19:13 Unknown Welcome to Leadership Bites with myself, your host Guy Bloom. This is a leadership podcast where I have conversations with colleagues, I chat with guests, and sometimes they'll be just me talking. You can connect with me at Living brave.com, and when you enjoy the episode, subscribe and please tell everyone.

00:00:19:15 - 00:00:26:14 Unknown Okay, so Danny, lovely to have you on this episode of Leadership Bites. Welcome. 00:00:26:16 - 00:00:38:17 Unknown Thank you Guy. Appreciate the offer to come in.

Little bits daunted by this might be asking me and get me to divulge, but I'm sure you can cut it in as you say. 00:00:38:22 - 00:00:42:21 Unknown We will. And as you know, this is the first time in a studio. 00:00:42:21 - 00:01:04:20 Unknown So for me, 150 odd episodes have been done on, like, a video kind of thing.

So this is a whole different experience. So I think we're both in, new territory, so. But we know each other, so, you know, we'll, we've known each other for some time. So I'm not going to introduce you.

I'm going to get you just to say who you are. 00:01:04:20 - 00:01:22:04 Unknown And I'm going to frame it in the lens of, imagine you were at a barbecue or social gathering and somebody said, oh, you two should have a talk. And they said, oh, what do you do? What would you what would you say?

Yeah, yeah. 00:01:22:06 - 00:01:38:02 Unknown Okay. It's quite a good question. I would use the phrase that a very good friend of mine, uses to introduce me, who's a property agent and, quite a few friends in property and the agency side.

00:01:38:04 - 00:02:01:09 Unknown I'm a stand standout sort of individual in that respect. The, the builder, amongst the property agents. My friend would. I would introduce myself as a builder.

He would interject and say, no, no, no, no, he's the grumpy builder. So, I'm the grumpy builder. In a in a very simple format. But.

Yeah. 00:02:01:09 - 00:02:03:00 Unknown So that's how I would probably start. 00:02:03:02 - 00:02:13:17 Unknown And if somebody said, okay, so what does that really mean? Give us a give us the job title.

Give us the company. Let's just start there and then we'll we'll we'll keep going. 00:02:13:19 - 00:02:24:11 Unknown Okay. So I am the managing director of a company called Women Construction.

I lead the industrial logistics and data center team. 00:02:24:13 - 00:02:41:12 Unknown As part of a larger organization. We're body resolution of three sectors. Co, company co in the construction.

So, three sectors industrial, multi-room infrastructure and the business terms, around 1 billion pounds. From 00:02:41:14 - 00:02:49:08 Unknown and I've been lucky, privileged in some respects to work with you as an organization, probably about 5 or 6 years now. 00:02:49:08 - 00:03:15:12 Unknown And it's been and that's the reason I wanted to get you on the podcast, because, the reality is, I think there are lots of organizations that have, you know, interesting journeys. But when there has been one that, I'm in, I've only been in that for a small portion of it.

But just having heard about the the growth, the shift, the dynamic of just but I got to know you guys literally just around Covid time, which was hilarious in its own kind of experience. 00:03:15:14 - 00:03:38:03 Unknown But I would love for you to just maybe give it a little sense of when Vic's history, as you know, because you, you started really sort of, I guess, the start of your career in essence with that. So I want to marry those two together. But maybe let's just you just do a few minutes on when Vic itself.

00:03:38:05 - 00:03:53:01 Unknown Just I guess from what you, you experienced of its growth, to where it is now in a, in a manner that people that aren't in the industry and wouldn't know anything about you. What what makes it may be interesting? 00:03:53:03 - 00:04:17:02 Unknown Okay. So the business performance, 2001, with a very simple approach to, what intentions were, which was to build in that around the Midlands industrial buildings for a small list of clients that we've worked for previously and not to exceed a turnover of, say, 10 million.

00:04:17:04 - 00:04:39:19 Unknown And work with people that would work with previously as individuals, bring them across a large flat structure, work together. Really nice place to come to work and go from there. It's up to 2001. Ongoing development three I think it was.

But a lot of the produce that comes out later on we talk about my journey. 00:04:39:20 - 00:05:16:00 Unknown And from there we made a real good fit. All took a foothold in the, in the market. Created a really credible and well respected business with a great work ethic, business and business principles that we put to good stead.

And from there, it's really continued to grow. It was around the recession of 2008, where we were starting to move into other areas, multi-regional, and it build as it was back then and just trying to justify our options, look at other areas to focus our efforts on. 00:05:16:02 - 00:05:35:18 Unknown Which got two huge projects at the time. One for pro launches, some that occupied reminiscent of Brantford and another for, Crofton Gate and Amazon up in Scotland.

And those two projects in South Philly carry us through the worst of that, that recession. That was a really good place. We came out the other side. 00:05:35:20 - 00:05:58:02 Unknown And as a business, we've always reinvested, back into our people, back into the business itself.

Reduced the debt to zero. Make sure that we're always well placed to ride out any, so market activities or common economic issues. Again, to come out the other side in a, in a stronger place. And that's the business principle with, with a lot to, for, for a long time.

00:05:58:03 - 00:06:23:15 Unknown And from there you. Yeah. 2010 probably is where we started to really grow. Organically has always been the intention that our own people, through training and mentoring leadership.

You know, we have had to through stronger growth periods for people outside of the business, which isn't expecting there are great people out there as well, which we put into the organization. 00:06:23:17 - 00:06:50:01 Unknown We have a great, unique culture, by the way, is a there's a there's a phrase that by the time was coined quite often, means something, different to everybody. So, you know, using that, that culture in that approach. I'm moving into the sector as a sales and infrastructure sector.

Multi-room sectors or high rise buildings, student accommodations, hotels, cabins. 00:06:50:01 - 00:07:24:24 Unknown That type of, thing. Let's give it a real shot. You know what?

We're a specialist contractor in those three areas. That we offer that broad, offering. You know, across the business, really? And that we've continued to work in those three areas.

I would say arguably through Covid, we have to focus our industrial picking on really, busy market, busy sector, of hyperinflation, going home of staff movements generally. 00:07:25:01 - 00:07:49:24 Unknown Lot of activity. We probably what we date, we have a promise, to deliver. And it takes a lot to recognize that.

So, to step back and say, actually, we're a better contractor if we reduce our exposure, focus on delivering what we say we're going to do with the right people. And that was a learning curve, but a really good one for us. 00:07:50:01 - 00:08:24:23 Unknown And from there we've continued to grow to where we are now. Industrial sector or industrial, logistics and data centers.

Some they were around 800 million. The other two sectors, about three. Everybody between the two of those, hovering around the 1.1 billion mark now as a, as a business, which is, picture sounds really crowded when you, when you talk about the size of the business would become and where it started, and certainly for me personally, is you know, I've been there for large portion of that journey.

00:08:25:00 - 00:08:42:15 Unknown Yeah. I think that's coming into an organization that's got where it's got is very different to having seen its growth and experienced. So let's bring your journey into this, which is you haven't come in in the last 12 months. You've been there, as you say, within that sort of first, I think two years after it sort of commenced.

00:08:42:15 - 00:08:56:01 Unknown So just how old were you? You know, what did you think you were joining? And you know, I guess it's, you know, Holy moly, you know, this roller coasters off. So just be great.

Just, to hear that 00:08:56:07 - 00:09:08:08 Unknown from you very much perspective. I'll take it right back, actually, because it is relevant. I was a student at place and Google requested of CTC is what's called a time. 00:09:08:10 - 00:09:30:19 Unknown Managed through great support from teach there who had seen that I was very quickly throwing my education down the path to secure a GCSEs or something like that.

Stable means progressing to sixth form. Takes a couple of courses that I thought was fun. Six months into having my fun, the teachers were polite and say, you know, you don't take this seriously and people need to get home. 00:09:30:21 - 00:09:55:09 Unknown You need to make a decision, get on with it or go away.

So I went off on some other options and followed in construction and thought that seems like a good idea. Picked up a full time college course of Mountain College. Which was great. And the girl who arrived at the time used to take me.

00:09:55:11 - 00:10:14:09 Unknown We fell out. She's not taking me home. So, the college said, look, you've got something, you know, we know that you can flip. This is what they released.

Course, you know, can you find somebody that you can get a job with or whatever? I you kind of love Christmas from November time around this time of year. 00:10:14:11 - 00:10:35:07 Unknown 9616, maybe 1797, 97. My mum came in the morning.

Yeah. Morning time, you know, up for breakfast? Cup of tea? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. By the way, that said, you can go jump for Christmas. You have to move out.

Boom! Yeah. What? Where am I going to go?

I'm 70. Well, that's your problem, you know. Get your ass into gear. 00:10:35:07 - 00:10:53:18 Unknown So we'll see some, Brother, my older brother who was in construction.

As I said, it was a successful career in construction. He worked for my father's side. And so I can get a job easy for me. Like loads of people.

Oh, right. I just I'm going to call you, for job. Yeah, I'm going. Right.

00:10:53:19 - 00:11:16:22 Unknown Okay. So that was it. Adopting what they would constructed for chemical baths in company and comet. The who?

The old. Yeah, retailers. The electrical retailers. Are you aware of them?

Yeah. And, they were looking for what's called a time of checkpoint. Some was a little bit more. Less than what she was proposing as an engineer's assistant in modern day times.

00:11:16:24 - 00:11:37:11 Unknown Some of the college. Is that option? Yes. Once, what I thought was the interview.

This is where she gives you. Start today. They put me on 2 pound an hour, five days a week. Let me go to college one day, and you can pay me for it.

And that's where it all began for me, and I hated it. 00:11:37:13 - 00:11:44:00 Unknown I hate every minute of it. You know what? What an engineer could pass on to you.

It was horrible. 00:11:44:02 - 00:11:51:17 Unknown So if you're out. That had hated. Well, up until the point I really like, I actually loved, was telling to bring more 00:11:51:17 - 00:12:00:10 Unknown sandwiches out with me about coming back and and picking out what was looked like corned beef mush, my pocket and then eating them because, remember, it's concrete.

00:12:00:11 - 00:12:22:24 Unknown Come packed. You know, really instilled the importance of a good work ethic. And good engineering principles. First principles to stay with you for life.

Yeah I've still got my first calculator. I can still do inverse rectangular. I can still do things that I wouldn't have been able to do with Pathfinders. Really been there pushing me and pushing me for anything for the right reasons.

00:12:23:01 - 00:12:43:01 Unknown And that that that business at the time was I was a regional business and three of the people in that business went on to found me. I was on a site in Corby again with the site, and I was told that news I heard that Dave Ward, who is, is one of the founders, was coming to the site. 00:12:43:01 - 00:12:59:18 Unknown Today's goodbyes. I stood there ready, back in hand, thinking, this is it.

You can see. So come on down and get your stuff. You're coming with us. And he didn't.

And, he left. And, you know, I was a bit sour about that. And, I'm asking him now because when he was asked, why didn't you? 00:12:59:18 - 00:13:21:05 Unknown I didn't take Danny Boyle.

Diamond's career. We can't give him a career. And, I was correct at the time. Their initial plan was was it was a small business.

You know, the flat structure of established people that could help them do the things that they really wanted. Been chance really well, without the bureaucracy, without the process, without the red tape. 00:13:21:07 - 00:13:43:03 Unknown But that business never stopped to grow. And until years later, you know, never was, I think I was.

I've left bar association freelancing, and I got a call from, another one of the, challenges to, call Richard Dunlop. He's a fantastic mentor and friend. And, it's really, you know, a lot to be said for my success, down to his mentoring and, directorship. 00:13:43:05 - 00:14:04:04 Unknown And, Richard called me.

We were at my wife's friend's caravan, a think about Skegness. And so good job for you if you want to. Come on. What for us as a, as a as a an engineer, a senior engineer.

I need a good number to. I'm just working on this for you, Lester. The moment. How old were you?

00:14:04:06 - 00:14:30:15 Unknown 21, 2021. Okay. Well, just Aaron Aaron's just people. 22 was 22, and, I said, a struggle, which, you know, committed to this project the end of August is a ten, nine, eight, seven repeat.

What really counts. Didn't get to one, but found out. And I'm lucky you five. You know where you began.

00:14:30:17 - 00:14:54:15 Unknown If you know what you you know, I've seen his character, Adams. You know, that was eight months. My fate was sealed. I joined with Vic in September.

So freelance engineer, which is number two on a huge team in Peterborough, 726,000 square foot for Occupy Devon. So I am Prologis. In were about to refit that for the occupy. 00:14:54:15 - 00:15:17:00 Unknown The moments really come up to And that was the start of the the weaving journey.

And it was, it was, it was great. It was everything I'd hoped and more, you know, so part of the organization very quickly, I don't know, the opportunity came to join the business full time basis doesn't come off for you guys in the making. 00:15:17:00 - 00:15:39:13 Unknown The following year, I took it on, and from there, it's been a organic growth for me, working in most of the other departments and in various forms. Primarily, I'm a I'm an engineer at heart, so you can use that, my skill set, you know, it's transferable into into other areas.

Yeah. It's been a good time in design. 00:15:39:15 - 00:16:03:00 Unknown And in project management, before. So moving into more of a business development role, my late 20s, joining the main board, 2010.

So number 30, just for the box ticking moments where I had to be a director, whether it meant it or not. You know, I still give the founder some grief about it, but, but it's great, you know, a great journey. 00:16:03:00 - 00:16:24:01 Unknown Great people. And then from there, I really had the opportunity to shape the organization and be part of this growth and be part of the strategy to take it to where it's where he's today.

He, working with some fantastic people, within the organization and that I've been exposed to through clients. Yeah. Create some great friends and mentors. 00:16:24:03 - 00:16:49:08 Unknown I think that's, it's it's an amazing thing to hear somebody talk about, in essence, a life journey.

Not in that respect, because very often, you know, people do do that, but also they you know, two years hairier than that, that has its own value because you're learning different things along the way. But what really resonated with me was about that first catalyst of working with people that can set the tone for. 00:16:49:13 - 00:17:20:19 Unknown I had a manager called Tony Powell. It was X Merchant Navy and, you know, rough around the edges in many ways, but just set the tone for the way in which I framed the world.

And if I hadn't met him, you know, so I'm sure it had being fine, but I can absolutely say if I hadn't met him for that year and a half, two years, or whatever it was that I knew him, and I may not have had that that journey that I've been on. 00:17:20:20 - 00:17:38:17 Unknown I think there is something and we talk about apprentices and all that kind of thing. But there is, yeah, there's the role of an apprentice or starting new in a company, but the person that sets the tone, I think is, is hugely important.

So that brings me a little bit to the win Vic way, which I'd just like to talk about. 00:17:38:19 - 00:17:54:03 Unknown A little bit because that link into culture that, that something, where did it come from? Who was the first person that went, you know, it's the win that way. And it became a, I think inverted commas.

So 00:17:54:08 - 00:18:13:06 Unknown interestingly, one of my roles in the business, actually ten years ago now, I wanted to capture what the winning big way meant because operationally, which is my background and as an engineer, we were parts that we all saw how fast that was unique. 00:18:13:08 - 00:18:32:08 Unknown Still, as you, what does that mean to people that don't know what that means when you've been warehouse shares this week, as we've talked about them? Essentially, it's usually surrounded by a lot of concrete, and that's what having to take to make that way round and distribute materials, from the, from the, content to top areas.

00:18:32:10 - 00:18:51:14 Unknown Traditionally the link building is is the critical path. So I'm seeing steel going up is a real visual. People want to see progress and that's why they see it. We tend to flip that on the head.

I'm we were about. Well, and it was Richard Butler, you know, absolutely, wholeheartedly, unequivocally, Richard Butler was the leader in that. 00:18:51:14 - 00:19:16:18 Unknown He would fight tooth and nail for that principle, because he believed and trusted in that process. So Richard was a catalyst, and he wanted trusted supporters of that process, of which I was fortunate enough to be one.

Of course, I challenged him on it, and I think love because wife could have been doing it with us that way, even though we're walking around in all day. 00:19:16:20 - 00:19:38:13 Unknown The quality was affected. I think it was affected into the cabins. Look.

And it just needs to be resolved. So. Yeah. Okay.

Well, actually, Richard was, you know, a stickler for cleanliness, you know, stickler for organization, stickler for. Let's make this work hard now to make it easy for us. I was later and I'm blocked and there's there there's there's not many by Richard Otto. 00:19:38:17 - 00:20:02:04 Unknown You know, thank you daily for their for the these he's given me.

And, so again our yards down so we would we focus on getting our external concrete in our town as soon as we could to allow us, to access the building footprint and install the building in a really clean, really safe, well-managed, organized environment. 00:20:02:08 - 00:20:23:04 Unknown What do you get? You get a quality product. Quality product.

The client values it and values it. You want to use. You can use you can you credibility issues. So it was a simple formula.

For us unfortunately it's due to our, our clients, competitors don't really see value in that. But it's setting a standard, isn't it? 00:20:23:04 - 00:20:40:10 Unknown It's setting a tone. That's right.

Yeah. So so the question you ask was the when do I come from. So the client I would say is he was probably the first of the. So people say, well, you know how we do the agenda.

So I think you know, it's very unique with the way he's from the outset. So then we would take on board. 00:20:40:10 - 00:21:06:07 Unknown We think way I think right. So when I tried to understand how others what what it meant to us in the business, we sat down with department heads, people within the business sat down in terms of brainstorming a lot of stuff on the walls and that kind of I mean, you know, you you create this pyramid of words, but then feed it to feed it, to feed it, which is great.

00:21:06:13 - 00:21:30:03 Unknown And we've just actually did a re-emphasize of the we think way in the feed the business. And, and the one thing that resonated really well was those, personally worked in our council department, and she said exactly what you just said, that most concrete aren't. Why is it important now? Might be to you, but I was in a previous employer where they didn't pay people on time.

00:21:30:05 - 00:21:56:05 Unknown People were always chasing for their money. We didn't care about the supply chain. I mean, the firefighting, when they we pay people on time, we have great supply chain who value being treated in a fair and timely way. So that to me is the way, the way.

So it means something different to everybody. And ultimately it comes into doing it right. 00:21:56:05 - 00:21:57:17 Unknown It's doing your job right. 00:21:57:19 - 00:22:15:07 Unknown I experienced that because I get paid by you guys on time, and if something goes wrong, I'll get a phone call or a message.

If I've done something wrong, just as much as it doesn't matter. But I get paid on time. If I speak to somebody in the organization, I'll get a call back. 00:22:15:09 - 00:22:36:04 Unknown Other organizations, they might ring me up for a proposal, and then I'll never hear from them again.

They have that. There isn't even the integrity to go. Hey, go! We've gone left instead of right.

We're going to do it in halves. We're going to go with somebody else. It doesn't matter, you know. That's the stuff of life.

But that that what is your way that sets a standard, sets the tone, demonstrates your what you're about. 00:22:36:08 - 00:22:55:23 Unknown I guess what I know as well. That's you you touched on my earlier. I haven't really had multiple business experiences, you know, but from the horse's body, paying themself to a point by the fire fighting regions was always bad news.

Yeah. Which is why, you know, the founders came away and, you know, south of south British principles. 00:22:56:00 - 00:23:20:13 Unknown Yeah. Which we do, I never oh, I've never noticed a big way.

So I you know, wouldn't think. Yeah. We, we've never not paid to be on time. Yeah.

We would never not do it either. So for me, yes, our challenges to the. Absolutely. And as we grow and and you know the the way the way can sometimes become a little bit diluted, you know, not through retention but just because of 00:23:20:15 - 00:23:21:08 Unknown growth.

00:23:21:10 - 00:23:25:12 Unknown You know, if you're not born into it, you don't maybe recognize that. Absolutely. Yes. 00:23:25:14 - 00:23:42:24 Unknown Yeah.

Well, I mean I've got some fantastic, for people within that movement in the organization that really do live and die, by the way, and that comes off on others, and people see the value of it. So it's difficult to change people's, you know, minds sometimes. 00:23:43:01 - 00:23:56:03 Unknown And, you know, because I say you should do it, you know, you have to work on it. You have to help people see what the benefits are working in, in that way.

So, yeah, it's a fantastic culture. Yeah. 00:23:56:05 - 00:24:04:02 Unknown I just, I mean, I, I, I can't, I can't, you know, I could as I look back but I love working with you guys. 00:24:04:07 - 00:24:23:19 Unknown It doesn't matter what I do.

It doesn't matter if I never work again. But I just get that sense of just. We're not doing this to check a box. We're doing this.

And I'm held to account as well. I like that, you know, we all know Kelly works within the company. But Kelly. Well, even though I've been working with you for some time, how are we going to move it forward?

00:24:23:19 - 00:24:40:18 Unknown What's going to be different? You know, if I go, yeah, I've got this idea, I'd like to. I want to talk it through. Yeah.

You know. Nope or. Yes, but it is a partnership. You do failure brought in you all.

There is a standard that we're trying to work to. It's got to have a value that can be demonstrated. 00:24:40:20 - 00:25:03:10 Unknown But in return, you know you're going to be treated with respect. You're going to become part of what we're about.

And, that it does happen in other organizations, but less than that, more so. So it's a beautiful thing for me to work, experience. Now, I'm interested in your a journey of growth, where I've got somebody that's been in one organization for a good size of their career. 00:25:03:12 - 00:25:26:17 Unknown So talk to me about I guess, the stuff that says I've had to learn how to.

Yeah, not how to read a panel. I'm not talking about that. But when it comes to people, because, you know, when it's just you and you're an individual contributor and you, as long as I do well, I'll get recognized. And then I get a team and that I and then all of a sudden how I'm in charge of the damn thing.

00:25:26:22 - 00:25:34:06 Unknown Yeah. So just walk me through that. I, you know, I've had to learn how to dot dot, dot. 00:25:34:08 - 00:26:23:10 Unknown That's a good question.

There's, there's a lot in that. That majority changes, through maturity organizationally and, you know, physically. And I know I am a very competitive person, my personality very competitive all the time. And that in every aspect, you know, so, certainly as a young professional, he's a professional loosely, but as a young aspiring professional, it was all about the brashness, the loudness, the, being right regardless, you know, being convicted in your decisions, regardless, and that worked to a point.

00:26:23:12 - 00:26:45:01 Unknown When you want to then take it to another level. The difficulty and challenge certainly for me was recognizing and accepting that actually some of these traits are going to prohibit me from moving on from being a leader, from being seen as somebody aspirational and inspirational. 00:26:45:03 - 00:26:47:19 Unknown So what got me here may not get me there. That's, 00:26:47:21 - 00:26:48:21 Unknown that's that's the thing.

00:26:48:23 - 00:27:15:09 Unknown And sometimes it clicks, sometimes, symptoms a bit longer to click, I think 2009 an opportunity to say, attend a three week. It was a three week residential course at Cranfield University. I think it was called something like the, Accelerated Talent Development Program for Young High. 00:27:15:11 - 00:27:18:04 Unknown It was something like easy to remember the longer.

00:27:18:05 - 00:27:48:21 Unknown Yeah, yeah. But, I was, I was and it was great. It's very, very, sort of interesting experience. What was great for me, was there was no one else for construction was mainly FMB, so food and beverage being on the hotels.

Grosvenor, you know, just the, the way people other than that, where it's a lot of shouting and a lot of, you know, he or she, she was loudest, was very high pressure, long hours. 00:27:48:23 - 00:28:05:22 Unknown So I actually was able to stand back a little bit and go about making and come forward with this. But I learned some fantastic things in that which I hadn't realized I planned. And you come out of there and you, and I sat at the, evangelical blue sky thinking, I've got to implement everything I've got.

00:28:05:22 - 00:28:11:16 Unknown Plus three weeks on day one. Yeah. You know, we can get just in the afternoon of all. Here we go.

Yeah. 00:28:11:21 - 00:28:15:17 Unknown He's been on a you've been on a course, but 00:28:15:19 - 00:28:29:13 Unknown certain things resonate at different times and that comes back to maturity. Yeah. Physical maturity and certain things click at certain times.

So might be the situation you presented with you know temporary and it's not working. 00:28:29:13 - 00:28:50:15 Unknown And then how about a minute. I'm just going to try that. What I get it now.

So that's your organizational maturity. It might just be that you're not mature enough to accept that I'm wrong. Someone else is right, and then one day, you know, actually, they are wrong. Actually, there's much more success that comes from accepting I'm wrong or actually championing this person is right.

00:28:50:17 - 00:29:17:10 Unknown And that's something so, it's certainly been evolutionary for me. One big, one of the thing that I like to use is reflection. So very outcome of every outcome that you, that there's, there's going to happen. There's a reflection on, did it work, who didn't it work?

And if you're, if you're the leader of, you should all start with yourself. 00:29:17:16 - 00:29:46:00 Unknown So it didn't work or wasn't as successful as you'd hoped. What should I do more of or less of, you know, how do I support the team in those things? If it was a successful as you wanted.

Yeah. The the outcome. Great. Very similar process.

What did I did? I might have nothing. I might have just made okay for autonomy and authority and accountability to the team that I trust and support to do what we asked them to do. 00:29:46:02 - 00:30:08:22 Unknown And they did really well.

So maybe I should I just it's not getting multiple. So that's been I continue so I want to get to Friday and or something. I'm the guru of the whole things. But keep reflecting.

Is that my so ever learning because then you then you understand that you don't get me one pretty well. 00:30:08:24 - 00:30:09:24 Unknown Because 00:30:10:01 - 00:30:28:18 Unknown always quite curious, I guess, is the what I'm hearing there. And, but there's a vulnerability issue as well, isn't that you've got to it's, it's it's hard to be sometimes for some people to be in charge, you know, to give direction, to be the go to person. And but to learn is to go bugger up, 00:30:28:21 - 00:30:29:12 Unknown mess that up.

00:30:29:12 - 00:30:30:21 Unknown Absolutely. Yeah. And I 00:30:30:23 - 00:30:38:10 Unknown again, it's not, it's it's not been an easy thing for you to kind of look inside and go, yeah, I might be the problem. 00:30:38:12 - 00:30:52:05 Unknown The very difficult.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah I trust is the biggest learning curve as well. You can say I trust you.

But if you don't trust them it's visible in your actions and you and your body language you know trust you to do it. 00:30:52:05 - 00:31:15:22 Unknown But let me have I say so you don't trust me. You know, so trust is. I don't think trust ever.

Almost trust in performance, you know, certainly for myself is you have to trust the people that I work with. You know, my colleagues, people that we employ to do what we're asking them to do. Performance is one thing that can be a really high performing person, but nobody trust them. 00:31:15:24 - 00:31:28:21 Unknown Yeah, there's an exam.

That's been difficult for me because, again, I've been so used to. I'll do it myself. I can do it. You get it?

Here. That's that's difficult 00:31:28:23 - 00:31:39:16 Unknown where I was. I've actually got this question around letting go. And I think as you become more senior, that's one of the biggest things I come across, which is the letting go.

00:31:39:18 - 00:32:03:09 Unknown So what? Yeah. If you do it, how hard is that to just to, you know, we you've set around that concept of trust but especially you know, if somebody knew in or that that not maybe doing it quite the way you would you know why is that balance of am I all over this? But then I'm not trusting them and I'm micromanaging them, or do I just step away and let them get on?

00:32:03:09 - 00:32:10:11 Unknown But actually, if I do that, I'll the thing could fall over. That is that this seems to be the boss's constant 00:32:10:17 - 00:32:28:01 Unknown angst. I agree, and and it's not I don't think there's one simple answer to, because of two variables. And in each situation, quite binary person.

So I try to utilize it to binary has pros and cons. 00:32:28:03 - 00:32:58:20 Unknown As you know, that conversation before. But if I'm, you know, if we are employing, person to do a job and they are the right person for that job, that's half of those roles and responsibilities and competencies that go with filling a job. They have the autonomy and the authority and are accountable for doing, I have to trust them or we have to trust them to do that job, and they might make the wrong decision.

00:32:58:22 - 00:33:20:10 Unknown They might make the right decision. But we'll deal with that. We can try and do less of that next time, you know, less of the wrong, more of the right. Through some better interaction.

We have some some more constructive feedback around, you know, how we improve that process or that decision making process. But that's how I deal with it. 00:33:20:12 - 00:33:37:03 Unknown I don't really deal with it differently. I try and make A01.

I think all of you know, your point is that, you know, that's right. And accountability, people see accountability. The negative thing, I think, is a really positive I want to be accountable. Absolutely.

You know, it's it's a great achievement, I think, to be accountable for something that's been successful. 00:33:37:08 - 00:33:51:11 Unknown Yeah, it's a great achievement to recognize when you've been accountable for something and it hasn't succeeded, you know, so you can take that. Gosh, you know what I need to do here. So yeah, I'm accountable now.

Could have got a lot better. Yeah. Can you help me? I 00:33:51:13 - 00:33:54:15 Unknown think the accountability is, you know, if you just put you on the go.

00:33:54:15 - 00:34:14:10 Unknown Yeah. Sorry. It was me. Well hold on.

That's that's you owning up. That's not necessarily being accountable. I see accountability and you're going bugger. Right.

And then you're learning and you're going damn it, I'm not going to do that again. You know, I don't mind you making a mistake in the. Yeah, to a point. I, I but I've got to see you annoyed with yourself.

00:34:14:10 - 00:34:27:16 Unknown I've got to see you going. Right if that happens. So you've got to plan for next time. Just you going.

Yeah. That was me. That doesn't sit with me very well. I don't know how that sits with you know I so 00:34:27:18 - 00:34:34:24 Unknown you know it's you want to be part of a team.

Yeah. Regardless of level of where you sit within that team. 00:34:35:01 - 00:34:56:07 Unknown The team is the team. Yeah I know I'm going to be part of a team that wins together and loses together.

Yeah, that's I think its ownership of performance as well. Yeah. Accountability. Yeah I'll do it.

And you can trust me to do it. Great. But also that I need to see ownership of your performance. And if it goes left instead of right stuff of life.

00:34:56:12 - 00:35:07:21 Unknown But I need to know that if I give it you again, you've gone. And by the way, you know the last time. Yeah. That I'm in it again.

Okay. Right. You've learned, you've paid attention. You're trying to grow.

You're trying to move forward. 00:35:07:23 - 00:35:09:22 Unknown That's that's, that's the kind of accountability 00:35:09:24 - 00:35:14:20 Unknown I face. And and I'll tell you what I would use, as you know, I call it the John Terry effect. 00:35:14:22 - 00:35:34:01 Unknown It's been, you know, repeated John Terry a bit with the service, because it's not the actual story, but the sentiment was there, you know, he he was on the sidelines over it.

He was he was on the bench. He wasn't. Stadium with the suit on and the 2012 Champions League final, Chelsea, they won. John Terry takes a suit off.

00:35:34:01 - 00:35:51:24 Unknown He goes for Chelsea, get on a leash in pads included. So he's in the photographs as if he was part of the team that won the Cup. Now, would he have been doing the same if they haven't, what do you just some self up in them. We have in the stadium the signal and said come on you guys.

00:35:52:05 - 00:36:11:08 Unknown You know sorry. Trust and that's, that's but oh well we want or I'm part of it you know. And yeah, I think it's a good analogy. And don't be a John Terry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, you can sit in the, in the, in the stands and be immensely proud of how your team has succeeded. Yes, you've been part of it. 00:36:11:08 - 00:36:24:03 Unknown But you don't have to be there for them to succeed, to win.

Yeah. I'd be happy for them. You don't have to be in the photographs, you know, be content in yourself that you played a part of it, retaining credibility. 00:36:24:08 - 00:36:28:08 Unknown That's like with kids, isn't it?

You know, it's, they're going to go off and do their own stuff. 00:36:28:14 - 00:36:29:11 Unknown Yeah. Without 00:36:29:14 - 00:36:34:05 Unknown you. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the kind of. Yeah, that's the kind of the point. 00:36:34:07 - 00:36:53:13 Unknown So listen, the business, some days someone hunt Dave Ward, and then there's come a point where he's well known now that they've kind of they've taken a step back and, yourself Rob cook, Chris Allsopp, Mark Jones, you've you've stepped into that kind of more senior role and of, of running the business. 00:36:53:15 - 00:37:14:16 Unknown So you've got these kind of individuals that were incredibly senior within the organization.

And then there's that kind of a baton pass, I guess. So I would just like to hear that, you know, that little bit of that journey I think of, you know, we're in our verticals, we're doing our own things. Social pleasantries, I'm sure. 00:37:14:22 - 00:37:29:22 Unknown But then we're asked to work together.

I'm I'm I think that's an interesting little bit of information for people about, you reforming relationships or recalibrating, I should say, relationships and maybe just hearing about that a little bit, I think would be 00:37:30:02 - 00:37:38:01 Unknown good. Yeah. I mean, we, uncertainty myself, Chris, of what's in the business, you know, beginning almost. 00:37:38:03 - 00:38:11:09 Unknown Well, Joe's coming in a bit later and, followed by Rob.

But all that for a number of years. But ultimately, we were our employees. We held senior positions, you know, managing directors, running the teams responsible for, the success of the of the sectors on the business implemented strategies. Ultimately, we, you know, we use them and employees and there's a respect there that you have, conscious and subconscious, that exists and is, there's, yeah, we own the business.

00:38:11:09 - 00:38:30:03 Unknown You don't and that's not the lobbying. That's binary. That's my binary view on it. Yeah.

You're buying into the business, the four of us. I'm stepping onto the board and the same level as the founders. Probably easy for us. And 00:38:30:05 - 00:38:35:19 Unknown for that, I was going to say you let them go for them, right?

Yeah. 00:38:35:21 - 00:39:09:14 Unknown I'm some of adopted quicker than others. I'm not, you know, I'm not. But we get that, you know, we like, you know, a certain amount of interpretation around what that looks like.

You know, I remember when we were in the get negotiations of, of the, of the volume, I think that we just finished, coaching with yourself and, I would say I was challenging some of the, the, the contract conditions, around, working with one another. 00:39:09:14 - 00:39:22:03 Unknown And if it didn't work, you know, what would that look like? And I remember solidarity. I, say, well, you know, if people can't get on, then it's not going to work.

And I said, I wasn't talking about us. Well, I was talking about 00:39:22:05 - 00:39:23:23 Unknown us, 00:39:24:00 - 00:39:31:14 Unknown you know, because we changed the dynamic, the. Yeah. Yeah.

So it was said with a bit of tongue in cheek, but it was, you know, we we step in, we step in it. 00:39:31:14 - 00:39:50:00 Unknown It was stepping up. Yeah. You know, we have a duty and we know what our roles responsibilities are.

There's going to be some jostling. There's going to be some challenging conversations. We're not always going to agree, you know. But as long as it's without agenda or without persecution, then it's from the interest of the business.

And we can work through my statement. 00:39:50:01 - 00:40:11:08 Unknown And I've been able to do so. So I think the transition has been really good. Certainly the feedback we've had from people within the organization is that they see it as a positive.

It's quite succession planning, you know, as people who are from within the business and hold the business values at heart and the business principles that with with the fire, you know, for the last 20 years. 00:40:11:08 - 00:40:19:08 Unknown So, yeah, it's it's not without challenges. Absolutely. But I think it has gone as well as we have.

00:40:19:10 - 00:40:34:01 Unknown And I think that's a massive thing, isn't it, when you've, you know, when the four of you in a portakabin and then boom, all of a sudden, you know, it's a billion and, you know, you go, right, there's got to come a point that, that transition of anything is absolutely huge. 00:40:34:01 - 00:40:51:10 Unknown Stepping up the transition, stepping away is a transition. The level of trust. You know, the, what happens if they just they want to paint it blue.

We don't want it blue. Yeah. Just simple things like, you know like like that I think is, easy when it's easy, right. 00:40:51:12 - 00:40:59:17 Unknown Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I'd, because, you know, a, I'm not afraid of of speaking my mind. 00:40:59:19 - 00:41:01:18 Unknown I'm way and then 00:41:01:20 - 00:41:19:13 Unknown maybe have to be a bit more consistent with the language.

But as I've said all along, for all of us, when they, when they, the founders left a structure that regional directors, you know, turning over x, x amount of employees, you know, there came a point where we surpassed that as a business. 00:41:19:13 - 00:41:42:06 Unknown And okay, you know, we we allow, you know, no more virgin territory each and every day for all of us, on this business, taking it forward and shaping the future, dealing with what we're in control of. And, be prepared for what we're not in control of.

But as a team, we're doing that very well. I'm working together on that. 00:41:42:12 - 00:41:52:06 Unknown We trust one another. We don't always make the wrong decision.

The mistrust there in the decisions we do make, has a lot to be said for that. So you 00:41:52:08 - 00:42:05:11 Unknown have the the four of you that are now stepping into that running of the organization. Have you or how did you breach that? We know each other, but actually, how do we get closer?

00:42:05:13 - 00:42:30:15 Unknown How do we become more connected and just make sure that we feel that this isn't just politeness and but actually is a genuine, you know, if if one of us fails, we all fail. And, you know, all that kind of good stuff. How did you go through that process? Well, you spent 12 months trying to think that there is an.

00:42:30:17 - 00:42:32:18 Unknown Are you you see, because we you know, I was yeah. 00:42:32:20 - 00:42:53:05 Unknown Yeah. All very different, characteristics. And you remained, you know, professional all the way, through that, that process.

But I tell this story often, and it was you had gone away and spoke to some of the senior members of staff within the organization. 00:42:53:07 - 00:43:21:01 Unknown And you asking the same question that you started off with today. You're at barbecue. You say, oh, that was for me, the construction of a phone interview with somebody working for a study that was a template like, are you talking some great things to the right thing for myself and really positive things?

It was great to hear, but they were permanent insignificance about the negative things that you said to me. 00:43:21:03 - 00:43:38:15 Unknown And I remember was a Friday when I went proper, you know, my volunteer was out. Everyone's asking, what's wrong with me? You know, I want to be like, I want to be this, like, you know, that type of thing.

And you spend, you know, 24, 48 hours dwelling on it. You go through the curve of, you know, anger, you know, upset acceptance. 00:43:38:17 - 00:44:02:11 Unknown Okay. Right.

Let's let's take it on that. And for all of us, we have all the four of us that that that was a great piece of work because we needed each other. Then to help each other and call each other out if those old traits reappeared. So we had to connect to one another.

We had to challenge each other. 00:44:02:13 - 00:44:21:08 Unknown Not because we persecuted one of them, not because we have an agenda. But it was done. You just just do that again.

Right. Okay. Yeah. Pull back from that.

So that was a great way to break down. I don't think you know at all on the same level. We all came away from that feeling the same. 00:44:21:08 - 00:44:24:01 Unknown Yeah.

What what good things. What good things. And here many good things. 00:44:24:03 - 00:44:41:04 Unknown Yeah.

Well you did it. Yeah. And that was interesting, isn't it? Because the brain doesn't like it.

And I think as you become more senior as well, and this isn't a you think this is an everybody thing and it'll be in your this, you know, it will be right now in some of the people in the organization and anywhere else that I visit. 00:44:41:06 - 00:45:08:02 Unknown Yeah. The old adage the king thinks the world smells of paint because there's somebody three feet in front of them painting everything. Right.

So you do get less of A's, you do get less of, let's say the truth, but it's offered to you in a very managed way. Not there's a problem on site managed way. But when it comes to us, our behavior, you know, you're my boss or you're my boss's boss, and I'm going to, you know, etc.. 00:45:08:04 - 00:45:30:22 Unknown So it is interesting when somebody, offers those observations because it's probably been a while while you probably when you were younger, you got it all the time.

Bingo. I'm right there on bingo. So yeah. So that was that was a real good moment.

And it sets the tone for the rest of the organization to say, well hold on then. 00:45:30:24 - 00:45:53:14 Unknown Yeah. If they're willing to receive feedback, if they're willing to work on themselves, but not in some tech box, you know, we're doing a course, they had a briefing. Now they're actually doing work.

You know, they haven't turned into Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa any time soon. But we're all flawed, right? But actually, that that moving themselves forward. 00:45:53:16 - 00:45:59:10 Unknown Well, yeah.

Fair enough then. That's something to look up to, isn't it. That's not perfect but trying. 00:45:59:12 - 00:46:03:22 Unknown Right.

And that's the part about to use the four of us three or something smooth. 00:46:03:24 - 00:46:06:19 Unknown There was nothing to lose. 100%. I throw myself into 00:46:06:21 - 00:46:16:02 Unknown it.

You know, we forgot my comfort zone in a number of the sessions that we have with yourself, but we throw ourself into it. 00:46:16:04 - 00:46:44:21 Unknown And that has been ultimately what's made the relationship successful. Yeah. Continues to be successful because we believe believed in that process.

We believe in continue to challenge one another and that's what counts. But we're doing it for the right reasons, not because we've got a personal issue or that agenda behind it. And that interest for months probably took a six months to get to a point where we went awry. 00:46:44:21 - 00:47:06:16 Unknown Okay.

Look, I was up all the time there. And actually, we kind of have in for informal conversations, we bounce ideas off one another. We recognize where the people are doing something a bit better. We want to know, how can we do that better?

Because the businesses, you know, three main sectors and they're operating, under their own time, really. 00:47:06:17 - 00:47:20:20 Unknown But this is fantastic. We want to retain the culture. We want clear, concise and consistent message across the whole business.

And that only happens if the four of us and yeah, and the seven of us as a group joined up, do not 00:47:20:22 - 00:47:25:15 Unknown always think even family, you know, people that you love and you adore and you do anything for they do your nothing. 00:47:25:17 - 00:47:44:07 Unknown Right. So when you work with somebody else, of course they're going to do you. And then at some point it's not going to be that straightforward.

And I always absolutely when I meet a CBA team and it's this I call it a veneer, you know, oh, we never argue. Well, never. You know. No, we always get one.

Right. 00:47:44:09 - 00:48:11:07 Unknown Always. Oh yeah. Yeah.

We're the best of friends, right? My alarm bells are going off like saying nobody ever loses that. That shit got a mushrooms ever. Oh, no no no.

Oh, God. Right. Then you just know what it is. The ability to go bloody Allen.

Bob, you don't mean nothing but to know that actually, that's coming from a place of my irritation, you know, is something that I'm sure it'll come the other way in a minute, but it comes from a place of trust. 00:48:11:07 - 00:48:31:08 Unknown I know you have integrity. I know this is just a frustration and actually etc. so that's not looking for perfection is actually one of the the skills.

Let's not set quite a rod for our own back, but then we're constantly disappointed with not being perfect. Yeah, I'm one of my traits 00:48:31:11 - 00:48:34:06 Unknown is okay, I want to do something. No problems. 00:48:34:06 - 00:48:57:10 Unknown Propose it.

What does that look like? Okay, I will interrogates it. It needs to be robust. It needs to stand up to every question.

Doesn't mean that it's not the right proposal. It's the way I am. But there's enough people around me to say that we don't need that. We're all happy with it.

Yeah, okay. You know, so you need people to to challenge your own traits sometimes. 00:48:57:12 - 00:48:58:08 Unknown But we're all different. 00:48:58:10 - 00:48:59:17 Unknown Slightly.

Yeah. 00:48:59:19 - 00:49:21:01 Unknown So give me a sense then of if you could go back in time through a portal and see young Danny. What? And you could just have five minutes to go.

Dude, if you go minute. Yeah, just a couple of things. Yeah. For the.

For the love of God, would you please. 00:49:21:03 - 00:49:35:13 Unknown What was. What would you. You know, even if it was just, you know, write it down on a piece of paper, get it?

So they opened it and they were all right, okay. If I do this over the next 4 or 5 years, my life will be easier. Not what the lottery numbers are, but just think about it like this differently. 00:49:35:15 - 00:49:45:04 Unknown Have a little bit of energy towards that.

Don't, don't don't make that bloody mistake. What would you tell yourself? 00:49:45:06 - 00:49:47:18 Unknown So. 00:49:47:20 - 00:49:48:22 Unknown Just just take it 00:49:48:22 - 00:49:53:09 Unknown back a step.

Yeah. You try to give your kids advice 00:49:53:11 - 00:50:02:23 Unknown and it can be with best intention through life experience. And, and you know that that advice is unequivocally the best advice they go to get. 00:50:03:00 - 00:50:04:14 Unknown And they look at you roll their eyes 00:50:04:17 - 00:50:08:04 Unknown and dismiss and forgot whatever came out of your mouth.

00:50:08:04 - 00:50:21:00 Unknown Three seconds into telling them. Then they meet someone for the first time. He gives them half of that advice. I think we'll tell you.

They gave you this advice. It was. It was amazing. 00:50:21:02 - 00:50:22:12 Unknown Just it.

00:50:22:14 - 00:50:28:13 Unknown And you just sit there and just think, okay, so I want to speak to people. That seems to be the case every 00:50:28:15 - 00:50:28:23 Unknown way. 00:50:28:23 - 00:50:31:18 Unknown Yeah, yeah. 00:50:31:20 - 00:51:01:10 Unknown I really have had a fantastic career through being surrounded.

I've never been envious. There's a great tribe that never been jealous. Just is not in my in my psyche. I'm aspirational.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I want to see people see success and can magic success in any way that want to be around people like that. You don't want to soak up that guidance, that mentoring, that leadership skills.

00:51:01:12 - 00:51:18:24 Unknown And go back to the question, what I didn't do enough was take their advice. Enough now. With that, I've changed. You know what have got me there any quicker?

I don't think I was physically mature enough to absorb it. 00:51:19:01 - 00:51:21:02 Unknown As interesting as I am to implement it. 00:51:21:02 - 00:51:24:21 Unknown So, you know, the body can do with the mind of anyone can do so. 00:51:24:21 - 00:51:29:11 Unknown There has to be certain things in life, whether it be experiences, whether it just be 00:51:29:13 - 00:51:31:13 Unknown you just kind of have to go through it to get 00:51:31:13 - 00:51:41:16 Unknown through it.

You know, and that's. But I've been fortunate. I mean, you have some fantastic mentors who are friends with anyone in the new association and outside of it in all areas. 00:51:41:18 - 00:51:47:15 Unknown But I would say to anybody, you know, go and absorb it, 00:51:47:17 - 00:52:01:15 Unknown I like that.

I think there's something I have this phrase which is face into it, which is what is it? The military that I think the only way out of the problem is through the problem. But I think there's something that about stuff's going to happen face into it. 00:52:01:15 - 00:52:14:14 Unknown Yeah.

Because that's how you're going to learn, that's how you're going to grow. And if it's painful emotionally or physically or intellectually, it doesn't matter, but actually face into it because that's the reality of growth. Yeah. 00:52:14:16 - 00:52:39:08 Unknown Also as well, don't be afraid of people you don't like.

Yeah. I mentor a number of people at the moment, various career paths, and I'm in and out of all sectors and, and the problems they tend to face certainly is, you know, people have moving up through the ranks quite quickly, feel as if to be marginalized or if you can feel as if some of these persecuted them. 00:52:39:10 - 00:52:41:23 Unknown Okay. Well.

00:52:42:00 - 00:52:51:20 Unknown Personally do not want to be. Yeah. I don't want to be a leader like that. Not cool stuff.

Okay. So take all those really bad traits. 00:52:51:22 - 00:53:01:15 Unknown Don't do don't do that thing got you know. Oh right.

Yeah. I can think of one that is really aspirational. Perhaps I want to do that. But now, you know the pain of that.

00:53:01:17 - 00:53:04:19 Unknown Just don't do that. Yeah, yeah. This will come. 00:53:04:21 - 00:53:25:15 Unknown So surround yourself with equally good annoying, perhaps indifferent people.

And just try to, you know, try and take all the good bass pick the bones of it is as they'd say. Yeah. And put them into practice was, well, I can get in different situations, doesn't quite pan out but you know, and and reflect you know, that's that's what I would say to do more of. 00:53:25:17 - 00:53:43:04 Unknown Yeah.

Come back to him. Danielson. I wouldn't change the path of that. I've had that change.

The people I've met, I would change working for. We think, I wouldn't change any of the the successes or failures that I've experienced. I just like to do more. Oh, 00:53:43:06 - 00:53:51:00 Unknown that's interesting, isn't it?

I mean, a little bit of. It's supposed to be like, this is quite interesting, you know, it's supposed to be hard. 00:53:51:02 - 00:54:10:16 Unknown It's. And there's a lot of stuff going on today where everybody seems to want it easy.

Well, okay. Nobody wants to be bullied. Nobody wants to be victimized, okay? Those are the outliers and that needs to be dealt with.

But actually, it's not supposed to be easy. Not if you unless you just want steady state. But if you're trying to move forward, you just it's just made me get promoted. 00:54:10:17 - 00:54:30:00 Unknown You just want to move on and it's it's going through.

So listen, I could talk to you, with, with a curry and the appropriate beverage being a Diet Coke or whatever, I could spend the next, you know, 4 or 5 hours, but, I'm not the Joe Rogan podcast. And I was going to take it and listen to us for three hours. 00:54:30:02 - 00:54:50:08 Unknown Whoa. Exactly.

I was listening to, what, about 3:00 this morning? Actually, there's all of those that just come, to which I'll throw. It's just not the Joe. I'm not the Joe Rogan all of the of this space at all.

The. I love that guy. So, listen, I just want to say thank you, for taking the time to come to the studio. 00:54:50:10 - 00:54:59:05 Unknown This is actually, I said the first time I've used the studio in this way, so that's exciting for me.

And just on a personal note, thank you so very, very much. Thank you. 00:54:59:07 - 00:55:07:11 Unknown Brilliant. Thank you very much.

You've been great to share some of that. The first time some people have both had it as well. 00:55:07:13 - 00:55:10:18 Unknown So, yeah, I really appreciate it. Thanks.

00:55:10:20 - 00:55:24:03 Unknown Okay. That's it. I hope you have enjoyed listening or watching the podcast. If you have, please subscribe and tell people.

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