#67: CMO Strategies in a Health startup (Dexcare) by Former Microsoft & GE Healtcare (Jamie Gier)

Speaker A: Hi there and welcome to Impact Talks. Today we have Jamie Guyer with uh, US Chief Marketing Officer at Dex Care. She's a woman in tech who has a ton of marketing experience. I'm excited to have you on. Jamie, Please introduce yourself, tell the people what you do.

Speaker B: Sure. Well, first of all, thank you Lova for having me on today. I'm very excited to be here. Um, I am a three time chief marketing officer. I've always been in technology, uh, mostly in health tech. Uh, I did a little bit in education tech as well, but always technology and always marketing. So uh, I am disciplined in all areas from brand strategy to corporate communications, product marketing, digital marketing. So kind of full funnel marketing has been where I've spent a lot of my time and a lot of that Lova has been with pe, uh backed companies that are in that growth or high emerging stage. I have worked with Fortune 500 brands as well, including Microsoft and GE, but I really, really enjoy the companies that are looking to grow and scale.

Speaker A: So where did the career start? Obviously you've had a great brand background almost, but you're also working with scale ups. So corporate and scale ups is totally like, how do you even get into those worlds? Where did it all start?

Speaker B: Well, I actually uh, started in the ranks of uh, public relations. I started with an agency in Seattle, Washington here in the US and it was mostly in the travel and tourism industry. But I've always had a passion for healthcare and wellness and decided that instead of agency, I wanted to go into corporate and focus on something that I could really get passionate about. I knew that if I was going to really practice my craft, I had to be good at that. But I also wanted to really practice it within an industry that mattered to me. So I started out in medical devices on the consumer side. And uh, at that time technology had not really taken off a lot in healthcare. But a few years after I started it did and that started to really fascinate me. I was in Seattle, Microsoft was right here. And so it was getting a lot of attention as well. And I just had an interest in how do you apply software and technology to improve things in healthcare. And so that's when I really started getting into technology. And to date myself that was in the mid-90s. Um, and I did start out on the smaller side of companies and really enjoyed that because I could be part of something very special. But I also through acquisition made my way to a bigger company, which was GE Healthcare, and then did a stint at Microsoft, but always within technology. So I've worked with a lot of brands that were in the emerging space, but I also worked with brands that were simply trying to get into healthcare.

Speaker A: A lot of uh, people usually transition from corporate to smaller companies because it's less personal on the corporate side. Um, but you wanted to go to the corporate side. Um, why was, was it more you could do bigger things? Like what was the attraction to corporates?

Speaker B: Well, to be, to be perfectly honest, working for an agency was not going to pay the bills, especially living in a big city. Uh, so that honestly uh, is what prompted me to go into, into cor it and I enjoyed it. I just, I found that that was a place where I could focus on a singular brand, maybe multiple products, but I could really dedicate my, my time and practice my craft with a single company that was looking to make a big impact in some of the areas that, that I believed in. And I never found a reason to ever leave that because that kind of launched my career anyways. And, and I think it was just by chance that I went with a smaller company, privately held, and then made my way into corporate. And I'm kind of glad that I did that because you learn early on to be pretty scrappy. Uh, you also have a broader span of control and you're asked to do more. So instead of initially getting into a big company and just having a very limited, um, a limited uh, job impact that you could actually do multiple things. And then when I did make my way to the Fortune 500 companies, that's where you could really have access to resources and really fine tune uh, your practice.

Speaker A: So um, two questions there about the skills you learned. But, but maybe a shorter question, um, because you said you were scrappy in the privately held health and then you had a bigger budget obviously with corporate, um, what is the difference in the actual marketing that you're doing? Because in the beginning you have, the privately held company has little budget and the corporate has bigger budgets. So what is, how are you deploying that budget differently and what are campaigns maybe that you can share?

Speaker B: Sure. So I think it depends on the stage of the company. So if it's an early stage company then you're going to use different channels for that. But to get to your question on, you know, smaller company versus bigger company in being scrappy, you just have to find the things that you think are going to have the most impact and you have to get even extra creative in how you're going to execute that and where you're going to get your resourcing. But a lot of it is around focus, uh, and you might be wearing multiple hats. And so there's an investment there, uh, as opposed to at a bigger company where you have a lot of resources, you can hire outside agencies to, to support you and uh, probably get better traction in certain channels or more broadly. But I think it's, it's really around creativity. It's around finding pathways to win, being very smart with how you get resources to do that. But simply you're going to focus on fewer channels, um, and it's going to be dependent on the stage of the company as well.

Speaker A: So, so to get practical, can you, um, give us an example of a campaign you did at the smaller company versus like a corporate company and then how you then executed on that campaign?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I, well, let's, let's be clear. When, when I started out, digital was not really a thing for us marketers. Um, in fact, I would say that we even had to get more creative with how we would engage and we didn't have a lot of ways to track and measure the way that we do today. But, you know, a simple direct mail campaign, how do you really devise a direct mail campaign that somebody is going to want to pick up, read as soon as it lands in their mailbox? You have to be really creative with the headline that you're going to have on your direct mail campaign. Uh, the call to action for that. You know, back then a lot of it was done by, by phone. Today, some of the campaigns that I've deployed, uh, for a smaller company is more on the digital side. I think now you can create an asset and push it out through multiple channels. And so now you have far broader reach with one campaign than say I did when I was in, you know, in my earlier stage of my career. But I think the scrappiness simply comes from you end up having to wear that chief creative hat. And sometimes you might be writing the copy, you're overseeing the design. Um, and from that standpoint, you know, that's where you're, you're wearing the multiple hats and you're trying to get something out there as opposed to having a plethora of resources that um, can do that work on your behalf.

Speaker A: So, so you now you were in a smaller company, you then go to a corporate, you have the scrapping a skill. What's the mindset change, uh, what is a campaign that you can describe where suddenly you realize you have more resources? What type of suppliers are you hiring at that point?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, and this is, this is going to Be interesting because this is probably the reason why after some time in the bigger companies, I gravitated back to the smaller ones. So when you walk into a larger company and you have a sense of scrappiness and you have to move fast, time to market is really critical when you're scaling and growing a company. And what I found moving into the bigger companies, things can move very slowly. So you may have more resources, you may have some of the best, you know, creative vendors on your team. You're one of 10 customers that they're focused on. And so I had a different type of challenge, which was I still had the pressure of building, you know, a business unit or, um, market share, but the time to market was slightly different because it's a little more complicated. You're navigating a big organization. And so even though you have all of these resources, it doesn't necessarily mean you can act faster and move faster in doing that. And that was probably my single greatest frustration of working with a, uh, bigger company, a bigger brand, and why I wanted to go back to a smaller organization where I had broader span of control. But also you could move faster and you can kind of build your own creative team and you can build the brand.

Speaker A: I'm. Ah, so then going back to the second question I had, um, I, uh, am fascinated by the chief marketing officer position. Um, how. What are the skill sets? If you look at your career, you've had different companies, you worked in different teams. What do you think are the skill set that you've built up? Uh, or maybe different skills that really contributes to you being a good chief marketing officer?

Speaker B: I think one of the greatest skills to have as a chief marketing officer is the ability to take off your chief marketing officer hat. So when you go into the boardroom or you go into a leadership team meeting and you're at the table, you're not only thinking about your own functional area, such as marketing. You need to have a really good understanding of how the business operates. And so you need to have very good financial acumen. You need to understand what the data means in terms of growth and operational health. You need to have a perspective on company culture. You need to have a point of view on product. But this is where you're really leaning into other aspects of the business and having an understanding of that. And if you have not, during the course of your career, been curious about other aspects of the business, then it's going to be more challenging to get into a chief marketing officer role. But I say if you get to this Point, you've already mastered your functional craft. You know how to lead. You know how to devise a really good go to market strategy. You know the channels that you need to effectively leverage to get the reach, engagement, conversion. You know how to build the best team. Because CMOs don't know and don't have all of the answers. You rely on your experts, but you must have a really good understanding of the inner workings of a business, what the data means and how to read, I mean everything a little bit from how do you read a financial statement, a balance sheet, what does cash flow mean, what does that mean to the organization? Those are the things that really good chief marketing officers need to know and start building up before they even become a cmo.

Speaker A: Can you share, you uh, mentioned strategy channels and teams. Can you share, uh, three stories of where you learned that and in which part of your career, like maybe you had an aha moment, um, maybe a good story that others can learn from so they can understand how you learned these skills.

Speaker B: Yeah, and there's a lot of trial and error. So let me be very frank. There's a lot of failures in my career. I just happened to work for very good people that gave me a little bit of a Runway to learn, experiment and grow. Um, and I encourage all leaders to allow their teams to do that. I know that there's the term fail fast, uh, and so a lot of this is through trial and error. So not everything was perfect. Um, but here's an interesting case study, Lova, and this is where a well known brand doesn't always necessarily work in your favor. So you have to get even extra creative with your strategies and your approach. When I was at Microsoft, um, they had a business unit called the Health Solutions Group. It was under their R and D organization. So for all intents and purposes it was an incubation business within Microsoft. Even though Microsoft had a health and life sciences, uh, division which just sold the Microsoft stack into those entities within those marketplaces. What Microsoft was wanting to do was to actually go direct to hospital and health systems and uh, solve some very big challenges, namely around interoperability and data aggregation and how does patients have better access to their health information. So kind of big, gnarly, um, goals that the industry in general just had a hard time. Microsoft didn't necessarily have a strong brand among health system executives. It was one of those brands where, you know, you either loved Microsoft technology or you didn't. Um, and so it didn't necessarily work in my favor and I had to work extra hard to help bring brand, um, favorability and into the marketplace for Microsoft mainly. But I had to be very creative. At the time that we were operating, there was not necessarily a defined category for the technology, uh, that we were building and that we were selling into the marketplace. So we had to get very creative with how do we, um, how do we either fit within an existing category or how do we create a new one. Now this gets into strategy and this is going to be an interesting one because number one, we didn't have a brand that people in healthcare that everyone embraced. Analysts were very skeptical of another big tech player coming into a very specific industry and trying to solve big problems that had been plaguing the industry for decades. And we believed as a company that we had something unique what we ended up doing. And our strategy was if we're going to create a new category, which we had the means to do requires money, we had to validate and substantiate it. And so our strategy was simply to include other competitors who had a similar product and that we would go to the analyst community and say, hey, we have similar products. We believe we're solving problems in a unique and different way that is not defined in any other classification of software that you currently track. But it required us to being brave and being courageous and saying, we're going to reach out to these two of their competitors. We'll bring them to the table and say, we believe that we all play in a new, new market space. Let's, let's go to the analyst community and the media and say, this is, you know, we're coming together to tell you that we have something unique and different and then may the best player win. And that was our strategy for going in and creating some, ah, place that we could actually operate. Um, and it worked because what ended up happening, Lova, is you had three players coming in. We had customers lined up to help, uh, communicate to the analyst community. Yes, they are different than these other technologies that I've invested in and here's why. Um, and ultimately they did create it and they reported on it. And so that was a case of, of kind of having a unique approach to creating a category because everyone wants to be the only player in a category, which that's a very difficult thing to do. But also you're working against the category because if, uh, there's only one player in it really is there a, is there a market need for it? But we simply just reached out to other competitors and said, we're very similar. We don't Think we fit nicely in any one space? Let's define it. The three of us will define it. We'll go to the analyst, we'll bring in our customers, they'll validate and substantiate and let's see what happens. And what ended up happening was we got reported on and there was a new classification.

Speaker A: How, uh, I'm fascinated by your coming up with a marketing strategy. So what does that actually look like? So you were describing Microsoft. I also want to know nowadays how that looks like. But first, that Microsoft, Microsoft example that you just gave, creating a marketing strategy. I'm imagining you're sitting in a room with whiteboards with five people and you're coming up with ideas. What is that process like of coming up with a marketing strategy?

Speaker B: I think you get, you get a brain trust of people from across the organization. I don't think marketing strategy is just driven by marketing. I like to involve other people in the organization who might have a point of view. It could be your client success, team, product, your commercial organization. There's going to be others. But it is to, you know, you got to first understand what is the problem you're trying to solve before you can even get into strategy and what impact that you're looking to achieve. And it's simply a war room of the best ideas around, uh, an approach like how can we most effectively deploy, you know, a, um, you know, in this case it was a new category and we wanted to get creative. What was the best pathway forward and the fastest pathway forward. But it wasn't just my idea. It was a number of people. You know, we just wanted to approach it differently. And so a lot of the times I think strategy is, is built by some of the brain trust that, that you have within your circle. And that's where you're going to get some of the best ideas.

Speaker A: So how big. So you're working for DexCare now. How big is DexCare?

Speaker B: We're just about 200 employees and we're two years into the marketplace.

Speaker A: So what does that look like, creating a marketing strategy? Can you like name, um, maybe a campaign or if you can't name a campaign, just like an example of something comes up at a board meeting, I guess, or you come up with an idea, what are the actual steps that you then go and do to make this scale up successful?

Speaker B: Yeah, so in the case of, in the case of Dex Care, because I came in early in the year, so I've been with Dex Care for about seven months and um, let me, let me start by saying this so that your audience has an understanding of our, some important data, um, points that will bring to bear kind of this strategy that I'm going to talk about. So in, in healthcare, when you're selling SAS technology, a lot of the times the buying cycle can be anywhere between 12 and 18 months. You have a defined marketplace, especially if you're selling to providers and health systems. So you don't have thousands of accounts, you have hundreds of accounts. Um, but the buying cycle is very long. Uh, often you have eight to 10 people who comprise a buying committee. Many of them are decision makers, some are influential, but they could also be blockers to getting a deal done. Uh, they all play different roles. They have uh, different roles in how they drive impact for their hospital. And so when you have that buying committee and you have a very long, lengthy sales cycle, the way that you engage can be very complicated. Uh, you're engaging over a period of time and you're having to really message to a number of different Personas and the language matters. It's a very nuanced conversation that you're having with these different buyers and influencers. So in trying to drive impact for this year, we came together with the sales organization and simply said, who are the most important accounts that we need to focus on? Which ones do we think we have the highest likelihood of closing this year that we've done some analysis on? They're showing interest in what we have. We know that we have a solution that's going to solve a problem. We've looked at their own market data to see where we can come in and help fuel growth for them. And we came together and we narrowed down a target list of accounts and divide. We knew that they were all in different places and stages of the buying process. And so you can kind of consider this lova as a pilot for account based marketing and sales. We really narrowed it down and we came up with account plans in place for each one based on what we knew about each account. Very unique attributes, uh, about the organization, about the people, what they already had in their systems, how we could help them grow. And our strategy was largely around, and this is nothing novel, but I think sometimes uh, marketers fail to just focus. Focus can be one of those things that um, if you don't do it right, could be the death of what you're trying to do. And we had a handshake agreement on these, these accounts and came up with very customized plays, sales and marketing motions around that multi, um, channel because as I mentioned, the sales cycle is very long and you want to be where your buyers are. So whether it's, you know, they're on LinkedIn and we're going deep on that channel with paid media or at events, this is a, uh, a relationship driven deal and referrals matter. So how do we make sure that we're present at the events and we have FaceTime with them, that we're activating even our early adopter clients as a reference and referral network on our behalf? But it's complicated because you have a number of different sales and marketing motions that you're having to um, use and utilize at moments in time based on, uh, account insights that you have, but also this large buying committee. And so you have to have the alignment between the teams that make up your go to market. And so, uh, from there we just came up with a couple of different strategies. We already had some channels and we've been activating them and it's proving out to be pretty successful. And it's a good thing because we're actually going to see this as a pilot and make sure that we learn best practices and it will become a broader strategy for how we go to market across a broader set of accounts.

Speaker A: So what kind of channels? Can you go a bit deeper into that?

Speaker B: Yeah, and so this is, um, uh, right now we're making sure that we can go deep into a channel and the channels that matter. So um, unlike B2C companies or those that have a shorter channel sell cycle, um, a lot of my digital, digital channels are minimized down to LinkedIn where buyers are. That's a big community for us where a lot of health system executives, uh, spend their time. Uh, we are doing some retargeting across some other channels. But even more importantly is the events where we're going and getting engaged. Our customers, how do we partner with them on things like webinars where they're helping to share their stories. So um, from a channel perspective, we're going deep on LinkedIn. That's where they are, um, on our website for sure, because that's where they're going to land. But equally important is our event strategy. It's around, uh, our customers and making sure that we're doing matchmaking there. Um, I would also say that, uh, email will always end up doing email. But the reality is our buyers get hit up probably hundreds of times a day by thousands of vendors who are trying to get their attention. So we look at it as one mechanism, but not the soul.

Speaker A: I think it's really interesting that you mentioned Events. Uh, last week we had, uh, the managing director of Thomson Reuters on, and she also, as a strategy, had events, which is fascinating. Um, why do you think events are so good as a marketing strategy? Because just a little bit of context, when I was doing them, I found them extremely hard to scale and causes burnout sometimes because you go from very early until middle of the night for all the networking events. So why is events such a big thing when you're at that level?

Speaker B: It's a big deal for Dex Care and specifically our industry, because this is a relationship industry and it's a trust. Uh, it's an industry built on trust. And so you can't do that in a virtual digital way. You need to be present and visible in a physical realm as well. And so events is a place where we can actually meet in person. We can have conversations. Um, and a lot of the times our buyers are there because what they're doing is they're using it as their one place for the year where they can meet with all of their vendor partners, but also get up close to other solutions that they might be exploring and, um, wanting to get some best practices in. And so when we look at those events lova, we don't just think of them from, what's our booth? What's our booth going to look like? What's our booth strategy? We're looking holistically and we put a lot of time into it and we track so specific accounts that we want to meet with. But it is kind of a full court press in terms of, yes, we'll have a place where people can meet on site, but we want to make sure that we're hosting focus groups if we need to, that we're doing matchmaking between our customers who are attending and our, our prospective buyers, that we're hosting those dinners where we can have more of an intimate way to have a conversation. Again, these are ways you can build trust. And that is absolutely critical in our industry in doing that. They want to see the people behind the brand. And that's a really important point, A very important point. And so we do spend time, but not on a lot. We're not doing hundreds events. We probably do five events that we think really matter, and then we go broad and we go deep on those events.

Speaker A: So what, what is like a good event when you, you probably have a checklist? What is that checklist to decide that an event is good?

Speaker B: Well, first of all, we need to make sure that the people that matter are attending it. And so it starts with it's always got to start with audience and um, that we're making investments in the things that are going to give us some visibility. So we always, you know, we submit for speaking opportunities so that we can be on stage. Um, we're looking at what are they even talking about and can we, can we make sure that our company is represented in those conversations? Again, that could be like a speaking opportunity. But we want to make sure that the audience is a good match. We want to make sure that there's going to be ample time for us to connect. And so that's. It starts there. But the hard work lova isn't necessarily what happens while you're there. It's all of the pre planning work that is involved between marketing, sales and our client success team and making sure that we are aligned on looking at who's attending and having a game plan for all of them and being super, super clear on what is the outcome that we want to drive. If we only progress, say five deals out of that meeting, that's a, that's big for us because these are sizable deals. But it is a full court press around the people that we really want to engage and that we spend time with them, we get in front of them. Again, it comes down to the relationship building and the trust. But there's a lot of planning that gets involved. It's not just simple execution on site. The planning matters.

Speaker A: Can you give us some expert tips from somebody who does a lot of events? What should you be looking out for in the event? Pre planning?

Speaker B: Uh, I think that it needs to be a shared goal among different teams so that it's built into their own okrs. Um, we do work, you know, even out ahead of the year to make sure that everyone agrees that these are the ones that we're going to go to and the impact that we, we want to drive. So we do a lot of measuring around them M and a lot of it is just setting up the cadences to make sure that people keep their eyes on what we're trying to do and that they understand what their involvement is and their contribution to really pulling this off. Um, and a lot of it is just, it's around that, that it's a shared goal. We all know that this is going to have impact. It's going to help marketing, it's going to help sales, it's going to help progress, you know, relationships with customers. But at the end of the day it's going to have a good impact on the business. And this kind of gets back to Lova as well on the focus piece. Especially when you are with a small emerging company and you may not have the budget as a marketer might have is at a Microsoft or GE and you want to be very, very smart with your investments. This is why we spend a lot of time planning and getting ready and making good use of the investments that we're making. Because you don't have a lot of shots and we need to get at bats.

Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. You um, mentioned another B2B strategy because basically we're going deep into B2B channels which I love because it's very practical. Not m very practical for B2C but for B2B it is. You mentioned as another channel, uh, speaking engagements. Now I know for a fact because I get a lot of emails um, and a lot of startups pitch of course on our stage. But uh, what is your strategy to get speaking engagements? Especially because DexCare is not Microsoft. So how do you then still get uh, a speaking engagement?

Speaker B: I think it starts with having a point of view on topics and a unique one. I think that many organizations and events they want to have those people who have a contrarian view that might be a little bit more provocative that wants to talk about the elephant in the room. Uh, you know, and so we are bold in the things that we want to say. Uh, I think that's one is what message and how are you going to differentiate because they don't want sessions all sounding the same and everyone's saying the same thing. So that's one, uh, it is making sure that uh, for the events or the associations that our audience attends, uh, that we're there, those are the ones that we're going to go after. The other, and this is really important too is buyers don't want to hear from vendors, they want to hear from their peers. And so when you submit for a talk you should always try to involve a customer in that on stage with you. So we don't necessarily go after individual speaking opportunities. We go after panel because that gives us a chance to highlight three prominent organizations who are actually solving problems that everyone else wants to solve that they have something of substance to say and share with their peers. We simply put them on stage. We moderate. So there's a pull through on your brand but that's where you get a lot of attention. That's where you get a lot of recognition and awareness that you're looking for. It's your stage presence. But we're always involving our customers in those because no one wants to hear from A bender. They want to hear from their peers

Speaker A: and that's actually very smart. Uh, you mentioned these topics that are contrarian and can you give like an actual example of something? Because I know when you do speaker forms you have to like fill in topics and stuff like that. What is a topic that you guys use that you know, you know this, this really works. This really catches an eye of organizer.

Speaker B: I would say that specific to this industry there are some dominant technology players. Uh, then you also have some very interesting new entrants into the marketplace that are big names as well that like an Amazon or a Walgreens or someone of um, of that size. It's been interesting to see the disruption that's happening in healthcare and by the way, it's been happening for a while and so um, but health systems also have a view that they want to get as much out of their existing software that they can because they've invested hundreds of millions of dollars. And so a lot of the times we are um, we're addressing the elephant in the room which is those systems weren't inherently designed to solve some of the problems that we need to, to solve today or the opportunities, especially when it comes to things like consumerism in healthcare and how people for example, want to search for care and where they want to get their care. This is why you see these non healthcare entrants in the marketplace like in Amazon, because they can make that happen. But for us the elephant in the room is these health systems are simply trying to squeeze as much out of these bigger investments that they've had. But what's happening is it's not making them more competitive, it's not making the consumer and patient experience better. And so those are the things that we talk about that makes sense.

Speaker A: Then another channel that you mentioned was LinkedIn. Uh, that one is fascinating. For some it works. For some doesn't work at all. So what is the strat? Do you actually run ads on LinkedIn?

Speaker B: We do, we do. And so we have no, we have a strategy for both organic and also for paid. Uh, I like LinkedIn a lot. I think that they've done an excellent job really building out the tool, especially for B2B marketers because you can hyper target accounts and titles that matter to you. And we do know that that's where our buyers spend time and that's where their communities are. And that's why we've decided to go as deep as possible and, and continue to experiment with that channel. Um, but it, they make it fairly easy to do targeting without being too creepy, you know, I, I, you got to be careful of that. No one likes to feel like somebody is, you know, stalking them, for example. Um, but the way that, that we have it set up is we're doing a lot of experimentations. We're running different types of ads for different Personas, uh, and testing and seeing what works, what medium, you know, what formats work best, uh, you know, whether it's video or carousels, um, message pull through all of those things. And so this is where as part of being scrappy lova, we're just, we're all in and we're experimenting and if it doesn't work, we stop, we try something else. This is the fail fast. Um, but so far, uh, the buyer intent and the data that we're getting for the accounts that we're targeting, we're seeing some really good traction. So we're going to continue to do that and figure out other ways that we can build out that channel.

Speaker A: Specifically, don't you find that the CPMs on LinkedIn are a little bit higher than, for instance, Meta or Google and YouTube?

Speaker B: Yes. And I think some of that maybe, um, might be because of it is a B2B platform. That's where business executives spend their time. And you can really focus your message on that, on them.

Speaker A: You've never considered, uh, for instance, an organic YouTube, um, um, strategy or an SEO strategy or Google Ads.

Speaker B: That's next. That's next.

Speaker A: Next.

Speaker B: And so that is next. Yes, that is next. And so it's not lost on us that people are visual thinkers. Uh, the number one form of content is around video. So we are starting to do more, actually building an entire creative team that will have in house because that's how much we value content. And we know that it is our ammunition to feed the channels that we're standing up. And video is going to be our next big growth, uh, strategy for us on simply content as part of our content strategy. And so, yes, um, that is something that we're starting to build and experiment with for sure. In fact, uh, when I talked about how do you leverage your customers, uh, since that's the voice that matters, we're, we're building up a number of video assets specifically around their stories where we feature them.

Speaker A: Oh, so like a day in the life of or video testimonials.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely amazing.

Speaker A: So why did you not start, uh, with it? I find it, um, from my experience, because we run a ton of ads, uh, and it's usually that you start with Meta or Google, uh, and then you move on to LinkedIn. I've very rarely heard that you start on LinkedIn and then move to the others. What was the decision? What was the reason for that?

Speaker B: Um, I think the reason for that is Dex Care spun out of its incubation stage two years ago. Marketing is just now being stood up. So I joined as chief Marketing officer about seven months ago. We had a couple people in marketing. So I think some of it is just focus. And we knew that of uh, one channel, that that was the channel where we probably could have immediate impact, reach and engagement. It's not to say that meta and others are not, not important. We're going to experiment, but we knew that the starting point needed to be a place where our buyers simply had a community and where we could, with some degree of control, really target our efforts on that, on that platform. And LinkedIn simply makes it easy for B2B marketers to do that, especially given our sales cycle, especially given the multiple buyers that we have to have. But for us it absolutely made sense that, that we're, that's where we would initially focus. You know, we're moving fast and um, now that we have points on the board, so to speak, then and we've just hired on some additional talent, now we get to stand up these other challenge these other channels for retargeting purposes and really starting to um, experiment there as well. So a lot of it, honestly a little bit is just because of the size of the team, the focus that we needed to have, how do we get the quickest impact where we knew our buyers were going to be. But this is going to be any marketers and CMOs dilemma when they come into a high growth emerging company. It's the focus you can't come in and this is going to be an interesting conversation because you can't come in and try to be a master of all the focus is so incredibly important when you're standing up a marketing organization or where the company is new to the marketplace and really mastering a one or two channels.

Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. Um, before I move on to the next question, I did want to ask the last question around LinkedIn. You mentioned you have an organic strategy as well. What does the LinkedIn organic strategy look like for you?

Speaker B: We use it, um, I think thought leadership is one and so um, making sure that we are elevating voices from both within our company. So we do a lot around our CEO as a thought leader, uh, in our space and we amplify the voices of our customers as well. So we want to make sure, and this gets tricky too, is what we share on LinkedIn. We have kind of a multi threaded approach to this, but we want to make sure that what we share is of value to the audience so that they don't ignore us. We want to make sure that they come back for more and that when they see a post from Dex Care, that they know that there's going to be something of substance that we've shared that matters to them. So it starts there. The second is because we're in a high recruiting phase of our company. There's a lot of people, we're hiring a lot of talent right now. We need to hire the best talent and we're in a very competitive market. Being in Seattle is we do use it for employer branding. So that's uh, another channel within LinkedIn that we're, we're getting some, some traction on as well because we've, we've got to recruit fast as we build and scale the company. But it starts with making sure that your content and what you share is of, of substance and value. That we're elevating voices from within our organization, but also our customers as evidence and then also on the recruiting side.

Speaker A: So when you say elevating voices to get more practical, what does that actually look like? Is that articles, blogs, videos that you post daily posts?

Speaker B: It is. So, um, we do spend, uh, we do have an investment that we make in public relations and so we have a PR agency that we work with. Um, we know the themes and topics that were, that are important to us and the stories that we're trying to land. We want to make sure that when that happens those stories don't just sit on a shelf to collect dust and expire. That we want to use LinkedIn and make sure that we're getting a lot of utility out of, out of the content. Um, and so there's, there's that aspect of it. So we do share uh, articles. We um, have videos that we've started to produce, um, back to our story on YouTube. And the other is, uh, we've started a number of webinar series and we're kind of slicing up those as micro content to put out onto LinkedIn. But it's a, it's a number of different kinds of content type but also not just unique to LinkedIn but that we're simply repurposing from other efforts that we have underway. So to your circle back on this, it could be press articles, it could be something that our customers have promoted and we're simply resharing and engaging on that. Uh, it could be micro content that comes from a bigger webinar that we've done and then employer branding.

Speaker A: So uh, when I look at my clients where we run ads, um, I find it fascinating that when you're at the higher level, quality, super important. But when you're at the lower level, some really scaling and growing quantity. Obviously you want some type of quality, but quantity is the main player. So in which phase are you guys or like what is your focus? Are you going for large quantity or are you doing a couple of quality pieces? How are you balancing that and what's the focus?

Speaker B: I, uh, will always choose quality over quantity.

Speaker A: But do you have the reach though?

Speaker B: We, we are getting, we are getting the reach but you have to remember our total addressable market is in the hundreds of, of accounts, we're not in the thousands. So you have to, you got to keep in mind who we're selling to. So that may not be applicable to all of your audience, uh, members here, but this gets back to the focus. Um, they are getting hit up by, by uh, other companies every single day. So in order to make our contents stand out, the quality of it is super important. And so we want to make sure that it is of value to them. It's a value exchange. If they're going to spend any time with the things that we produce, they want to make sure there's, there's value to it. Because lova, that's why they're going to come back. They're going to remember you for it and they're going to come back. Um, now they may not buy from you, but they're certainly going to drop your name through word of mouth which may reach a different buyer. And that's equally important. But I'm trying to balance it out. So yes, you have to be consistent in, in um, posting and making sure that you've got content going out. But I will always err on the side of quality because I think it matters in people paying attention to you and coming back and wanting to learn more and seeing you as a thought leader. If I'm just pushing out, you know, fluff and self serving content, no one's going to pay attention to that. And we are seeing some very good results on LinkedIn in terms of reach and engagement. Um, we know for example that our customer testimonials their stories get higher engagement, especially when it's video based. Um, and so these are things where we're, we're learning and then it's like it's. How do you now build up even more?

Speaker A: So can you give an example of a calendar like a week? How many times do you post? What type of content do you post? And you say, because you say quality over quantity. So what is the quantity then? And what type of quality content performs the best? Do you have one example of a piece of content that really performs well?

Speaker B: Yes. Let me first address your first question. How often? So we try to post from the corporate channel on our brand three times a week from an employer branding perspective. So we have a partnership with our people team and they have full access to LinkedIn. And so we coordinate our post but they send out posts probably once or twice a week just around hiring. But we also encourage. So there's the. How often does the company post? So three to five times a week. But what we do lova is that we encourage our employees to reshare and to post our content because it gets greater reach. And so there's the network effect of doing that. And so it's kind of this two pronged approach. But from a brand perspective, three times a week from employer branding on recruiting, it's twice. That's from corporate channel. That's not necessarily how often our own employees are resharing the content or building up individual thought leadership. Um, so we, and then we have a separate, uh, a separate strategy for our own CEO. And so a lot of that is around industry thought leadership, having a point of view on certain topics and making sure that he's also active in this community because that's important to bringing brand visibility.

Speaker A: Why just, why just a CEO? Why not? You're the cmo, you're a woman in tech. Why not you, why not other people on um, on like higher level management?

Speaker B: Well, I'm active on LinkedIn and so I uh, uh, I've been very active on, on LinkedIn for years. Uh, and so I'm not too concerned about myself. But um, there are other voices in the organization. We're starting to build up that as well. But our CEO is at the helm of what we do and so we just need to make sure that his voice, um, which represents a big piece of our brand is very present and visible. I think that's very important as we look to expand um, where the microfo lands for other thought leaders in our business. And so we are focused on that. But again our focus initially has been with our um or CEO.

Speaker A: Makes sense. And then uh, the quality question, what is one piece of content that you know, this type of content works I've seen anywhere from people putting Excel files of venture capital funds to uh, like infographics and stuff like that. But what is the type of content that really works for you?

Speaker B: Video.

Speaker A: What type of video? Because there's a lot of types of video.

Speaker B: Yeah, so the medium is video. It's the customer story. So for example we record our customers basically sharing the impact that they've received either through using our platform M or through a problem that they've solved that we've been able to support. I don't necessarily like to do direct endorsements, but certainly their voices of how they've solved uh, a business problem. And Dex Care was their partner in the process. Those are the ones. Because this gets back to what I said earlier Lova, which is this is a peer to peer industry. The um, buyers go to their peers to get recommendations on technology solutions services. Um, they are paying attention to how their peers have solved particular problems. So I'm not surprised that it's those stories that get the greatest reach and the greatest engagement. And then video is the best way because they get a C. It's that relationship, it's the trust.

Speaker A: Maybe, maybe a bit of a weird question, uh, but why um, does an organization that only has 100 or 200 players in the market um, have a full on chief marketing officer and not just like a person who focuses on sales?

Speaker B: Yeah, well, um, let me be clear. Our market is much more than one to 200 um, big entities. Okay, so there's, there's upwards of a, of a thousand. But the, the reality is this because of the sales cycle, because we're building a brand in the marketplace, uh, among hundreds of other brands, um, because there's other opportunities for adjacent markets not just within that set of buyers that I mentioned to you, that is upwards of a thousand. There's, you know that that's just on the health system side. We haven't even tackled the other, um, the other submarkets in this space or even other market segments in this space. And so marketing needs to be a good 12 months out ahead of sales to begin with. And so you need somebody at the helm who's making sure that we're thinking of our strategy, our market strategy, that we are building our brand, that we have a really solid demand gen engine, that we've got the alignment between sales and marketing and CX of our go to market. And so for an emerging high growing company you need to have somebody who is thinking of that. But also because marketing should be viewed and this is interesting that I Love this question actually, and I'm glad that you asked. It's very provocative and uh, it's a good question. It gets down to what is the role of the chief marketing officer. And my view on that is a chief marketing officer is there to help grow a business. They're there to help grow a business, whether that's growing new business or whether that's growing existing, um, client base through expansion. But also they're a strategic input into the company strategy, the product strategy. And the reason why is they have their ear to the ground on um, what's actually happening. They have a pulse on what's going on in the industry. They're talking to customers. And so it's not just about sales, it's about product strategy, it's about business strategy. And you need to have a CMO who can wear those multiple hats and have a viewpoint and that's why. But also, um, you're planning out two, three years from now. Any emerging high growth company is not just thinking about the quarter, they're thinking about the two, three year plan. And you have to prepare for that.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, at one point you mentioned, uh, all the way in the beginning about team. And now as you speak, I'm starting to get motivated as well. But how do you um, motivate? Well, how do you I guess inspire your team? Because it's a very high pace company. Uh, you're testing out a bunch of new strategies, possibly a lot of failures as well. Uh, that usually tends to burn out people. And so you obviously need a good CMO who motivates and inspires. How do you do that in this

Speaker B: type of company, I think trust is the greatest motivator. So if you're building trust with your team and you simply tell them, I trust you, I hired you because you have a certain skill set, you have a certain expertise. My job is to help set strategy. My job is to help give you what you need to practice your craft. And I'm going to let you go. I'm going to let you do what I hired you to do because I trust you to do that. You will fail along the way. And I need to, to know when that's going to happen. And we need to fail fast and get back up and try it again and course correct where we need to. But it's simply trust that you hired a group of people for a skill set or expertise that they have. And by the way, there's people on my team much smarter about things like paid media and stuff. I, I Don't want that expertise. I want to hire people who have that expertise. But I am there to help lead them, guide them, answer questions, make sure that we all have a North Star so everyone is aligned and focused on the things that matter most and let them practice their craft so that they, they feel like they have a sense of purpose. The other motivator to Lova and I, I've seen where marketing leaders and actually leaders in general don't do a very good job of this, and that is you have to get your team to understand the numbers and why they matter. They need to know what EBITDA is and why it matters to the organization. They also need to know how to read a balance sheet. They need to know what profit and loss looks like, because from that they can make their own decisions on how they can impact those numbers. If you're not building up your team's financial acumen, then you're doing a disservice to the business. And so I do spend time sharing with them why these things matter and how they can contribute. When they see that they can contribute to a greater goal in the business, that's a huge motivator for that. Uh, I would say that anyone who joins a high growth emerging company, there's a certain, um, passion, there's a certain commitment that they have, there's a certain grit and drive. And you know, because you're, you're really having to be smart, you're having to work hard, you have to be committed. There's a lot of pains. It's not for the faint of heart at all, but in the, even in the interview process, you need to make sure that you're, you're interviewing for people who have either done that or have the tolerance for it, but if they believe in the passion, in the, in the purpose, and they have a passion around the purpose like we do in healthcare, it's, it is a big motivator, but I think a lot of it is simply the trust factor and being there for them, guiding, setting strategy, having a point of view, but saying, I trust you to know how to do this and I'm going to let you fly. And if we fail. Okay, let's get back up quickly. Course correct and go.

Speaker A: Maybe a different type of question now. If, uh, have you ever thought about starting your own business?

Speaker B: Oh, yes.

Speaker A: Well, because it sounds like you'd be really good at it. Just from the conversation I'm having now. What, what, what, what's stopping you?

Speaker B: I guess, you know, I, um, what is stopping me? Um, I've. I've worked closely with CEOs for, for many, many years now, especially founders. Um, when you're up close to founders and CEOs, you. You understand the pressure and the stress that they have. There's. It's lonely at the top. It just, it is. And, um, I'm not saying that I wouldn't be good at that, but at this point, I think my comfort level has been kind of the second in command, which is simply helping to drive a functional area, but being a good partner to the CEO on business strategy. So I'm not ruling it out in the future. I think right now I'm super happy where I am as Chief Marketing Officer. I think there's still things that I need to learn, and I'm super happy to be at DexCare for the reason that we are growing and scaling something very special. So let's see what happens here, and then I'll determine whether I'm CEO quality or if I'm, you know, gonna go off in the sunset. Who knows?

Speaker A: I would definitely support you if you become CEO. Um, that does lead to my next question, which is, um, if you would start a business, uh, in this climate. Let's say people are listening to this podcast, they're in the corporate world, they're startups, doesn't matter. They're starting a business. Obviously, one of the most important skills is, uh, sales marketing. So they're starting a business in the B2B. Um, how would you handle starting a business in the B2B? And the business can be anything that interests you.

Speaker B: Sure. So, um, first off, the focus is really important. I know as a marketer, if I don't have a good product to market, then I can do the best marketing out there. But if there's not product market fit, it's going to be wasted. So if I was CEO of a company, a B2B company, for a, you know, startup company, for example, I need to make sure I've got the right product and that the product works. How there's got to be.

Speaker A: How do you do that? Product market fit. This is literally the biggest component that always goes wrong and nobody has a proper strategy for it. So how do you know you have a ton of experience, you're really good at this. How do you establish a product market fit in the B2B scene?

Speaker B: You gotta be very clear that there is a problem that you are solving, whether it's an identified problem or not. But your greatest product market fit validation are customers and potential customers. And so those early adopters and substantiating what you're looking to build and the problem you're solving is really important because I think sometimes lova, we can get so enamored with the technology and we're like, well, I want to use AI to go do this. And it's like, okay, that's. That's sexy and sweet and we're all interested in AI and it's going to, you know, solve the world's problems. And so we go out and we build something because it's cool, and then we test it and it's like, well, no, what, wait, what were you even trying to solve to begin with? I mean, it's as basic as. As that. But if you don't have a marketplace that will be there to substantiate what it is you're building, then you're going to fail on that. I think there's always going to be exceptions to the rule. There's a lot of innovators out there who could anticipate that there would be a need for something or that people would really latch on. I mean, not everyone knows that they have a problem to be solved. And so that requires highly innovative people, but they're far and few between. And so, you know, for me, if I was in that role, I would want to make sure that it was super clear what I was solving and that I would test that out with a marketplace first and then make sure that if there is you build a product, that it's going to work. Because the death of a company is if your m. Your product fails, and it fails with even your early adopters, because those are going to be your early referral network to get the early majority on board. And so they have to have a very good experience or you have to set the right expectations that as an early adopter, we're going to have, you know, some friction points in your use of this and build a trust that you're going to solve them. But you've got to make sure that those early adopters that the product is working well because they're the ones that are going to bring along everybody else, and that's going to be number one. Your greatest sales team is going to be those early adopters customers.

Speaker A: So, um, I want to zoom in on test marketplace. You're in a startup, money's tight. Let's say you have a couple of thousand bucks. How do you test the marketplace in on a B2B product? Like which? I guess.

Speaker B: Well, uh, now, are you talking about testing your product or is it Testing a marketing strategy?

Speaker A: No, obviously you need custom because you were just mentioning you need customers because then you know you have a product market fit. So you have a couple of thousand bucks. I'll also ask later, a bit higher budget, but let's say you have a couple of thousand bucks to start with. Um, so which channels are you using to potentially get customers, I guess, or test out the market in a way that you can acquire these early adopters.

Speaker B: It's not very expensive to simply do focus groups. You can get 10, 15 people together in a room and pitch an idea, pitch a product. There's a lot of, um, startup ventures that are willing to even hear your pitch. There's a lot of incubator type companies that want to hear and test the next idea. So there's a lot of ways to do it that cost absolutely nothing with the exception of give them a nice glass of wine, bring in, you know, some appetizers and do a simple focus group. So it's going to be that kind of research that doesn't require a lot of money. You can do surveys, that's not going to require a lot of money. So I think that there's inexpensive ways that you can substantiate. The other is use your own network. A lot of us, uh, if you get to a place where you are a founder, I'm going to surmise that you have a pretty good network of mentors and others in your circle that can guide you as well and so, or open up their network to do this. So I don't think it requires a lot of money. I think what ends up happening honestly is that people just get so enamored with the technology and not the problem that they're solving necessarily.

Speaker A: So now the same question, but you're a tech startup, you've just closed your pre seed rounds and um, a quarter of a million is usually what I tend to see for a seed rounder, something like that. So let's say you have a quarter of a million, you close your seed round. Um, in Europe, our seed rounds are not millions. So um, you got to spend the budget somehow, but it needs to be smart. So same story. Exactly the same. But now you don't have a couple of thousand bucks, you have 250,000. Uh, and obviously customer acquisition is like a priority.

Speaker B: Yes. So the two areas that I would focus on, one is making sure that the product is stable. And so I would, number one, make sure of that. So whatever you're going to put out there with your early adopters, it's got to be stable and working. You don't want them to have a bad experiment. The second is going after those early adopter clients. And so you need to know who they are. And you've done, I'm going to assume that in order to even get that seed funding that you've done a business thesis, you've written that out, you know who your market is and you've also identified who potential early adopters could be. They might be an innovator in your space. You've got to go get them and you've got to, you've got to make it so that they want to test out your product and they want to be an early adopter because those early adopters are going to prove out that the product works and that the product solves a problem. That's, you know, so maybe you bring in a uh, head of sales that can do that. A lot of the times the founder is securing those early adopters. But I would put the investment in making sure the product is stable, that it's built to deliver enough value for those early adopter clients that you go after and you get the early adopter clients and you stabilize them and that you're getting usage and adoption. And then because that's going to be your initial sales engine, then you can start making investments in building up a sales organization and a marketing organization. And I would not, uh, if I was CEO, I would do those simultaneous. I would not necessarily just build up a sales engine. I think I value the role of a good uh, critical thinking marketing executive to even help further build out your strategy for the business, your go to market strategy in alignment with your sales team. Wow.

Speaker A: Um, that's, that's really good. We're uh, we're uh, entering like the end of the podcast now. Before we do, are there any topics that you definitely wanted to mention here?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think um, a topic that is near and dear to my heart that sometimes gets overlooked, um, in our, in our discipline around marketing because we do, we, we do focus a lot on channels and performance of channels and things like that is there definitely is an art and science to what we do. To me that's the science of what we do. The art of what we do. Lova is really around storytelling because for emerging brands or for existing brands, the way to really break through and get people to pay attention to you, to really start to feel um, the, what you can deliver is through storytelling. And I bring that up because I feel like in many ways we've lost the ability to do it. Because we've become so data centric and everything is around performance marketing that we have forgotten that there is a creative element to what we do. And if you cannot tell a good story that then gets amplified through these channels. You're, you're not going to have an audience that wants to listen to you, that wants to engage with you, that will even understand what you do. There was some interesting research. It was published, um, it was published a while ago, it's still being published. But it talks about the science behind storytelling and what actually happens when you do that and why it matters. So now I'm going to bring the science to the art. The research says that when you share a story with somebody, there is a physiological change that happens, there's a hormonal change that happens, and there's activity going on that activates all aspects of your brain. And what's happening is you're actually getting another person on the same brain wavelength as you. And that is how they start paying attention. Because the memorabilia, uh, the memorability kicks in. But number one, they're listening, they're remembering, and they're moved not just by the mind, but by the heart. And so the art of storytelling is actually based in science. And we have to remember that it matters. And then how you communicate that, whether it's through video, whether it's through an article, you know, you have to be effective at doing that. And people are very emotional human beings. It's not all logic. And, um, math, you know, math is going to close the door. It's going to be emotion that opens the discussion that you want to have with your buyers to begin with. And I just want to point that out because we focused a lot on, on kind of the practicalities and the science of what we do. I don't want to dismiss the art. And this is also why I place such, such, uh, emphasis on your creative team. Because they think that way.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um, you know, the. I'm so happy you mentioned this because five years ago I remember, um, I was so focused on the data, and then I remember picking up this book by, um, Ed Catmull. I don't know if you know him, uh, Creativity Inc. He's the founder and I think current CEO of Pixar. Um, and after I write that book, um, we started focusing so heavily on stories. We actually started winning awards. Uh, that year we won two awards. So storytelling is incredibly powerful. And I completely agree. Uh, how did you learn storytelling or what? Can you advise the audience to listen to Read or something so that their storytelling becomes better.

Speaker B: I grew up in a household. My dad had a doctorate in education. And being, um, very close to what was happening in the world mattered. In our household. Um, we had National Geographic magazines everywhere. Every morning NPR was on our radio station. I, um, mean, we just, we had access to people and things where the visual and the storytelling was present there. And so I was always enamored with some of the stories that were shared, uh, or what I read. And the impact it had on me. Now, I didn't know at that young age that was actually having an impact on me. Um, but when I reflect on it, I remember. I remember. So I just, I mentioned earlier the memorability of certain moments in life or what you might have heard. And so I think even early on Lova, that stories, whether I was reading them, hearing them, watching them, uh, my son and I are big movie buffs. We love watching movies. And I think that's one of the best ways to communicate. In fact, I model my own storytelling off of a basic script. You always have a hero and you have an adversary. You have a challenge that's going on. You have the person who wins. There's a lot of different elements that you can learn through a really good movie, um, and, uh, the plot, for example. And so it was, it was just always part of who I was, I think early on, and that I was moved, but it was simply because it was always in front of me and just the emotional impact. It's probably why I got into communications, because I was always just enamored with people who could tell a good story and move people and persuade people. I also took debate when I was in college. And so you learn the art of how do you persuade someone to your position and to your issue. And one of the key ingredients is the ability to connect with somebody through storytelling. I want to give an example, um, because I think sometimes people don't understand when we talk about this, well, what makes a good story and how is it different from a product led story versus a value story? So it would be easy for me as a marketer to talk about decks care from the standpoint of what we do. So we make it easier for health systems to be discovered when somebody is searching for care and making sure that they navigate that patient to the best fit care options so that the patient is delighted because they get access to the right care. The health system is delighted because they're optimizing all of their capacity. The provider is delighted because they're operating at top of license. That's a very. That's a story. That's what we do. But here's the real story. The real story is you have a Single mom, it's 5:00am she wakes up with a fever. She's got three young kids through the ages of one to four. The last thing the mom wants to do is to dress her kids, put them in a car, and go down to urgent care. She doesn't feel well. She is doing her best just to keep it together and hold it together. She wants the option to be able to have care virtually. The convenience of where that care is delivered so that she starts feeling better matters not just because she doesn't feel well, but because of all of the other things in her environment that are impacting her stress and her mood and everything else. And so for her, the convenience of searching for care and getting on demand, virtual access to a provider so that she can be virtually seen, she can be diagnosed, and she could be treated is very important to her. That's a different story. That's an example of who benefits from it. But the emotional appeal that I'm making there that a lot of your audience members may probably feel, as a single mom, I feel it. And so now I've just described something that probably resonated with someone's heart of, oh, my gosh, I know, I've been there before. I get it. And yeah, I had a virtual visit and it was awesome that I had the optionality of being seen remote from my home and I didn't have to drive three young kids in a car, go to urgent care, make sure that they're not running around the clinic, and I can be seen. That's. That's storytelling right there.

Speaker A: I love it. I love it. What are some last words you want to share with the audience?

Speaker B: I think the, the last words that I would share is this. As humans, we need to continue to be curious. We need to be very curious about the world. We need to be curious about each other, whether it's in business or whether it's in your. Your personal life. We are constantly learning. The world is changing so rapidly and we have to sift through all of the changes that are happening, all of the noise, the messages that we receive every single day. And it can be very daunting and it can be very overwhelming to the point that you just want to shut down. But we can never lose our curiosity because the curiosity is what leads to the best business ideas. It leads to ongoing learning and just improving who we are as, as humans. Curiosity is one and then specific to marketers, since that's what this was about, is always remember that what you do is to simply make someone's life better. You're creating a better version of them, whether it's the job that they have to do, whether it's something in their personal life. Always remember who the hero of your story is and that you're simply helping them create a better version. And you have to help them see that's, that's marketing right there is you're helping people see a better version of themselves in whatever they're doing in their life.

Speaker A: Love, it's great. Last words to close the podcast on. I want to uh, roll out the red carpet for you. Working people find you. What, uh, what can you say about the company you work for? Red carpets out for you.

Speaker B: Ah, ah, thank you. Uh, well, I shared a little bit about what Dex Care does, but I'll just add a little bit to that and that is we are all consumers of healthcare. We need to challenge the system to make care more affordable, accessible and convenient. We need to have options. And so the work that we do at dexcare is making sure that patient preference M matches, uh, system capacity and that you're getting the best fit care for what you need. That's really important and you probably have your own experiences of how you've accessed care and you've been treated and um, properly diagnosed and getting better. That's one I think. The other is, um, you can find me on LinkedIn. So we talked a lot about that. Um, Jamie Guyer and you can. I'd love to connect and if your audience has any questions or want to share their own point of view or even has a different point of view on something. I love to talk with people. I'm learning, constantly learning. Even though I'm in phase two of my career. Um, I know that I don't know what I don't know. So always look into Connect.

Speaker A: I think this is very inspiring. I'm so grateful you are on the podcast and hope to see you soon.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

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