Gen Z and Mental Health with Dr. Mary Collins

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Hello, listeners. This is your host today, Bill Bannham. And in this episode, I'm going to talk with the amazing, fabulous, and wonderful Dr. Mary Collins, chartered psychologist, author, speaker, and senior leadership coach with more than two decades of experience helping leaders thrive in complex, fast-changing environments.

Mary is program director of the Professional Diploma in Leadership and Workplace Wellbeing at RCSI Centre for Positive Health Sciences and works with C-suite leaders globally through her business psychology practice. A former head of talent and leadership at Deloitte, Mary is widely recognized for her work on emotional intelligence, resilience, intergenerational leadership, and the human skills leaders need most in the age of AI. Yes, that's that's right, listeners. We're we've just started and we already mentioned AI.

In this conversation, Mary and I will explore why social and emotional intelligence are becoming even more valuable as AI transforms the workplace, the challenges facing Gen Z around resilience and connection, and how leaders can adapt their approaches to support increasingly multi-generational teams. Mary, how are you? Welcome to the show today. Hello, Bill.

It is wonderful to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation. So, as we like to do on this show, Mary, before we go any further, uh my first question for you is what did I miss in the intro there? Um, what else do you think our listeners should know about you and what gets you up in the morning?

Well, um I'm based in Dublin, Ireland. That's where uh the World College of Surgeons Centre for Positive Health Sciences is. Um, what gets me up in the morning? Well, I for me work should be play, and I absolutely love what I do.

Um, I feel very grateful that, and I think one of the joys of Midlife Bill is that intersection of, you know, you've got good life experience, your qualifications, your wisdom, and when you get to do work that really um, you know, you're really passionate about, I think that's a really great intersection. And I'm very grateful to be at that point in my life. So yeah, feeling very fortunate. Um, I didn't mention that Mary's also very humble.

Um, I don't know about fortunately, I think she's worked very hard to get where she is, and she's a very impressive person. In fact, listeners, I got to see her uh live in person on stage at our Disrupt Dublin relaunch event just uh just a few months ago as we record this episode. And uh Mary presented a talk called Cooking or Cooked, Ready to Sport Gen Z to Flourish at Work, which is terribly apt for what we're gonna be talking about today, Mary. Um, Mary, do you mind just taking a minute or two, giving our listeners a bit of an overview of what you spoke about at Disrupt, uh, some of the hope for learning outcomes, and also maybe comment on that unique challenge.

It's 20 slides, five minutes, and because we're mean, we ought to make those slides. Yes, yes. Well, I've now I have two disrupt Hores under my belt. Um, and I have to say, it is it's such a unique format, firstly.

Um, I absolutely love Disrupt Hore. It is short, sharp, focused. There is no room for fluff. Um, and you take your your one big idea, and as you say, you've got your 20 slides, uh, five minutes, and it really does focus the mind.

You have to be very clear on your messaging. Um, it's also great fun. It is such a fun event. Uh, and I think, particularly in the world of HR, there is such a need for disruption, and there's such a need for new ideas.

Uh, so I spoke at the recent uh Dublin event on how to support Gen Z to flourish in the workplace. And yeah, my title was there was a bit of fun around are you cooking or cooked? Uh I'm really interested in Gen Z slang and understanding the language of the youngest generation in the workplace. Um, because actually, when we look behind the slang, the social psychology research, it tends to be a lot more abbreviated than previous generations, and it's coming out of LGBTQ, Black Lives Matter.

You know, Gen Z are very passionate about social justice, equality, inclusion. So I think it's really interesting to build our awareness and understanding of the youngest generation in the workplace. Um, so during my session, uh, Bill, you'll recall, I really zoned in on what the research is telling us that Gen Z bring huge strengths to our workplace, particularly around prioritizing well-being. Um, as I mentioned, diversity and inclusion, they're very tech-savvy, entrepreneurial.

Um, however, there are significant development areas where, as employers, I think we really need to support and scaffold Gen Z, in particular around their stress tolerance, um, their critical thinking, and you know, not trusting all the information they get, how to be discerning around AI in particular. Um, and importantly, and what we're going to be talking about today, their communication and emotional intelligence skills. Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast.

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Okay, wonderful. Love that. Thank you very much. So, how has the conversation around leadership and human skills changed over the past few years then as AI becomes more embedded in all aspects of the workplace?

Yes, I think leadership um is certainly a very dynamic area. And tradition, traditional models of leadership are no longer relevant or effective. Um, we know in particular uh for leading diverse teams that we need leaders who are adaptable and flexible and and really show high levels of self-awareness, empathy, flexibility, all of those core emotional intelligence qualities now are needed more than ever. And I think whilst AI is uh transforming our workplaces, and really um I think AI is is bringing huge change and is having a very positive impact in many regards.

We now more than ever need to amplify the human skills. So the World Economic Forum um has said that social and emotional skills are the most important skills now for the next decade. I'm just gonna go off message for a second here because I'd I'd love to get your take. I mean, right now there are AI psychologists and therapists.

Um, they exist in the form of specialized chatbots and virtual assistants designed to provide mental health support and whatnot. What what's your take on removing a human from that role? Oh, I think I am very skeptical of AI in any sort of therapeutic role, Bill, because I really believe the energetic exchange between two humans cannot be replicated. Um, and and creating that trust and a deep meaningful connection um is we're just not there yet.

And I don't know if we'll ever be there. Uh, I think you know, AI can really support um, you know, sharing resources and providing pathways forward, but that deep trust and connection, I believe, truly has to be between two human beings for now, anyway. I would tend to agree. Okay, so let's continue on.

Uh that there's a lot of talk about automation replacing tasks. What are we what are we maybe underestimating, however, uh, in terms of the growing importance of emotional intelligence, empathy, and relationship building? Yeah, I I think the world of work, you know, there's a lot of burnout out there. Certainly in healthcare, where I spend a lot of my working life, um, there's a lot of people struggling with mental health challenges.

We are in the age of distraction. Uh, people are juggling a lot. So, you know, for me, leaders need to really develop the human skills, the skills of true empathy. And Bill, did you know that empathy levels have decreased by 40% in the last 20 years?

4-0. Empathy levels are going off a cliff. And I think a lot of that is down to um technology and the fact that we are not truly present and our listening skills are really on the decline. I mean, listening is like a muscle.

We can develop it, but people were just being distracted. I was reading recently that people check their emails an average of 77 times a day. Would you relate to that, Bill? Are you uh an avid checker of your emails?

Oh boy. Uh yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm so guilty of that 100%.

Yeah. Yeah. So when you think about it, if we're constantly being pulled in all directions, you know, when somebody um needs to have an important conversation with us and needs our full undivided attention, uh that can be that can be really challenging for for a lot of us now. Sorry, did you say something?

I was just checking my emails. Um, okay, so you've you've uh you've spoken extensively, Mary, about resilience. Um you mentioned earlier on one of your other answers that um that's an area that um perhaps is not in as strong in Gen Z as compared to um previous generations. Why do you think resilience is becoming such a critical capability for leaders and and and and employees in today's always on AI-driven world?

Yes, I think for sustainable performance, um it's it's really important that we have uh good levels of stress tolerance. Um and for me, Bill, I like to think of, I mean, this word is bandied around a lot, isn't it? Resilience, well-being. Like for me, resilience, quite simply, it's it's like a buffer.

So if we have good practices, good rituals around managing our mental health and well-being and developing emotional resilience in our lives, we're we're developing, we're putting credits in all the time. So when we hit the hard days, and we all will have days when things go wrong, we have that buffer there and we're able to withstand the challenges. Um for me, it's about those regular, consistent habits that we have in our lives and prioritizing things like our physical health and also our social connection is really important.

Um, we know that from the grant study, you know, the longitudinal study, that the two factors that made the biggest difference to live a longer, healthier, happier life were purpose and quality relationships. So I think if we can really prioritize those, that will really um support our our resilience in the world. And just just two data points around Gen Z. Gen Z are reporting the lowest levels of stress tolerance than any previous generation.

Um, they're all they also rank their mental health five times poorer than baby boomers. That was a Gallup study that was done um last year. And when we consider, I like to consider the why, Bill. Why are Gen Z in particular?

And sorry, for your listeners, maybe who weren't um familiar with the age cohorts, Gen Z typically are born 1995 up to 2010. So they're our youngest uh workers who incidentally by uh 2030 will comprise of 31% of the global workforce. So Gen Z are coming in the doors of our organizations, and I think we really need to wrap our heads around how we can truly understand how to support and get the best from this powerful young generation. Um, and I think it's interesting when we start to go under the bonnet and understand why they are exhibiting the lowest levels of stress tolerance, and really there's two themes that come through from all of the research.

One is parenting. So all the parents listening have a moment. Are you a helicopter parent hovering over your offspring spring? You're wonderful, you're amazing.

Um, or have you heard of the latest one, Bill? The trailing parent? Have you heard of that one? No, no, no, I've not heard of that.

Well, what is that? So uh this appeared in the Atlantic actually uh earlier this year. So the trailing parent is it's actually a phenomenon in the US at the moment where parents are buying accommodation adjacent to campus to be with their little darlings as they go to university. And they shared an example in that um in that article of um a mother.

Her daughter was studying medicine in Northwestern in Chicago, and for four years the mother attended every lecture with her daughter, sat beside her in the lecture theater. Wow. I when I hit 18, I was gone. I was off the uni and quite quite happy to be independent.

And I think my parents were quite happy for me to be independent as well. There we go. Times have changed. Um, so okay, growing number of Gen Zs in the workplace, 31% in the next few years, as you mentioned there.

We we now have a workplace somewhere right now where we have four, actually, still five generations working side by side. What are some of the biggest mistakes leaders make when trying to manage intergenerational teams? Yeah, it's a great question. And when we consider the biggest areas of tension, as you as you rightly say, Bill, we have three, four, if not five, generations working in most large organizations.

Um, I think this is a wonderful opportunity. I love when I walk into an organization and see people in their 60s and 70s working alongside people in their 20s and 30s. Um, there's huge benefits, and the research really supports all of the opportunities around you know, greater innovation, creativity, higher levels of performance, greater retention, greater happiness at work when we have that diversity and inclusion at play. But the tensions that tend to exist, um, they tend to exist around three key areas.

Firstly, how people want to be managed and led. And I think leaders often have one style and one approach to management when actually, if you have a 24-year-old on your team and a 48-year-old on your team, you really should be managing them in quite different ways and flexing and adapting your style according to the needs that they present in the workplace. Um, the second area of tension is around communication. I mean, have you asked a teenager recently to make a phone call?

I think they prefer to, you know, eat their toenails. I mean, it's actually making a phone call is a really big deal for younger generations. And when you think about it, they've grown up like texting. So it's it's actually quite a big ask to make an actual phone call.

And the third area of tension tends to be around how people want to learn and develop in the workplace. So we know that younger generations prefer those, you know, laser-focused, tech enabled, short-sharp learning um events. I was at a bar recently and my friend made a made a joke about calling someone. They said, Oh, yeah, I think I've got an app for that.

That's quite amusing. Um, okay, so in your coaching work, Mary, with senior leaders, what separates leaders who successfully adapt to rapid change? Because my goodness me, we are living in a changing world from those who struggle. Yeah.

So for me, um, Bill, the leaders that uh are the most successful uh and happiest, because let's be honest, it is about you know, are you fulfilled in your working life as well? Um, and the ones that I see, it's to me, it there's a common trend, and that common trend is they have high levels of social and emotional intelligence, and I'm going to lean into three key areas of emotional intelligence that I see the most successful leaders consistently exhibiting. Number one is self-knowing, it's the leaders who actually know themselves well, they can regulate their emotions, and they know about the impact that they have on others.

They're very tuned in, they're highly self-aware, and they're constantly on that journey of development themselves. Um, the second area I lean into is empathy. That, and empathy is not about, you know, you're crying, I'm crying beside you. I'm talking about cognitive empathy here, which is really understanding someone else's framework.

So being a really good listener and really showing that depth of understanding when you're dealing with other people. And the third EQ competency I see consistently come up among successful leaders is adaptability and flexibility, that ability to really flex and adapt your approach depending on the context, depending on the situation. Um, that is a real skill. And the, you know, the really good news with emotional intelligence is it can all be developed.

Uh goodness you said that. Okay, it's not it's not too late for me. Okay, let's have another conversation. Mary, we are coming towards the end of this particular conversation.

Before we wrap up, a couple more questions for you. Um, firstly, what's coming up for you? I mean, you are a super busy, impressive person. You're always being invited to speak here, there, and everywhere.

You and I are having a little chat before we hit record today. It sounds like you've got some amazing events coming up. Anything you can share with our audience? Yeah, sure.

Yeah, lots of exciting things happening. I think the world of workplace, health, and well-being is it's it's a real priority area, and it's moved beyond, thank goodness, the 3F spill, I like to call it. You know, the fruit balls, the fitness at lunch, and the flu jabs. Uh all very well intentioned, but that's not what a healthy place to work is.

It's about having positive leadership at the heart of it, um, where you know, there's a really positive workplace culture. And this area is really growing from strength to strength, thankfully. Um, so we're seeing a lot of interest in our professional diploma in leading workplace health and well-being. And in our Center for Positive Health Sciences, we're we're hosting a very exciting conference in Dublin in July.

You're all very welcome. Come along, come to Dublin. Um, the um at a the European uh coaching psychology conference, and the theme this year is positive health. Uh so that's coming up in July.

I'm also working, um I'm working on two books at the moment, Bill. One is Emotional Intelligence and Pharmacy. So it's quite niche, but we know pharmacists um have quite high levels of burnout and anxiety in their professional lives. So this is a book to really support them.

And last year, as you know, I did the book Emotional Intelligence and Dentistry. So I'm I'm sort of building now a series. So any ideas for another book for next year are are welcome. Um, and I'm also I'm always interested in supporting women in leadership.

So something is cooking in in that area also for me this year. Very good. Maybe maybe a book on emotional intelligence and HR podcast hosts could be useful to a niche audience. Uh Mary, before we before we wrap up today, how can how can folks connect with you?

Is that through LinkedIn? Do you want to share an email address? Are you super cool and all over TikTok and Instagram and all these places? Tell us more.

Well, as a tree gen Xer, I do not have a Snapchat account or a TikTok, but you will find me on LinkedIn. That's probably the best spot to get me. It's Dr. Mary Collins on LinkedIn.

And I'd love to connect to your listeners, Phil. Wonderful. That just leaves me to say for today. Mary, I think you're awesome.

Um, I've I've had an opportunity of to spend a bit of time with you. Um, I I know what a nice person you are. Um, I'm looking forward to seeing you next week. So as we record this, Mary and I are hanging out in Dublin next week.

So I'm looking forward to seeing you again. Then and you will definitely be badgered by me to come back on the show again soon. But for now, thank you very much for being my guest. Thank you so much, Bill, and I'm looking forward to seeing you in 3D soon.

And listeners, as always, until next time, happy working. Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.

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