Modernizing HR Without Losing Trust with John Kennedy

1 00:00:02,879 --> 00:00:06,080 SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,599 most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, 3 00:00:09,919 --> 00:00:13,359 talent execs, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. 4 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:16,879 For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, 5 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:20,719 subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit 6 00:00:20,719 --> 00:00:22,480 hrgazette.com. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,800 SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. 8 00:00:28,879 --> 00:00:29,600 Hello, listeners. 9 00:00:29,679 --> 00:00:32,159 This is your host today, Bill Bannham. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,759 And in this episode, I'm joined by John Kennedy, an experienced 11 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:39,600 HR and business leader with an impressive track record leading 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,119 transformation across complex and highly operational 13 00:00:43,439 --> 00:00:44,479 environments. 14 00:00:44,799 --> 00:00:49,359 John works in HR organizational development at Irish Rail, where 15 00:00:49,359 --> 00:00:52,560 he has helped lead major people transformation initiatives, 16 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:56,960 including the implementation of Oracle Cloud HCM, the 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,119 replacement of legacy systems dating back decades, and growth 18 00:01:01,119 --> 00:01:06,079 of the HROD function to support large-scale organizational 19 00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:06,640 change. 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,280 A chartered fellow of the CIPD and vice chair of the CIPD 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,680 Ireland National Committee, John is passionate about leadership, 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,560 coaching, organizational culture, and delivering 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,359 meaningful impact through people strategy. 24 00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:25,280 Listeners in the Disrupt community may also recognize 25 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,519 John as one of the standout speakers from Disrupt Dublin, 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,879 where he delivered the very first Disrupt Lightning talk in 27 00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:34,560 Ireland since before the pandemic. 28 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:37,040 And in this conversation, John and I will discuss 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,959 transformation in legacy organizations, leading change in 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,359 unionized environments, building trust with stakeholders, the 31 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:51,280 evolving role of HR, and what great people leaders look like 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,200 in 2026. 33 00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:56,640 I hope you enjoy this conversation that I had with 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:56,959 John. 35 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:00,719 John Kennedy, it's my absolute pleasure to welcome you to the 36 00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:01,760 HR chat show today. 37 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:02,560 How are you doing? 38 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:03,840 SPEAKER_03: I'm very good, Bill. 39 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,439 How are you doing yourself? 40 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,640 SPEAKER_02: I'm alright. 41 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:07,359 I'm alright. 42 00:02:07,519 --> 00:02:10,800 So um what should I add to the intro that I just offered a 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:11,759 second ago, listeners? 44 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,680 Uh I don't know if I said, but um John is probably the nicest 45 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,080 man in HR in Ireland. 46 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,840 Um I've had personal experience now of working with him on the 47 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,759 last couple of uh disrupt events in Dublin, and um he is 48 00:02:25,759 --> 00:02:26,400 fantastic. 49 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,280 The audience loves him, everybody knows John and 50 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,439 respects him, and he's he's had an amazing career. 51 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:35,199 So um uh just wanted to give John a bit of a shout-out before 52 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:37,680 you go on any further because sometimes I get folks on this 53 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,560 show, and we've done hundreds of episodes now, of course, who um 54 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,439 I've got immense respect and love for, and John is one of 55 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:43,919 those people. 56 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:44,639 There you go, John. 57 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:45,840 That's me bigging you up. 58 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,680 Let's get into let's get into the questions. 59 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:48,560 I'll pressure it. 60 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,520 The hard the hard-hitting stuff. 61 00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:55,520 Um actually let's begin by talking a little bit more about 62 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,560 um Disrupt. 63 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,240 You presented the very first Disrupt Lightning talk in 64 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,919 Ireland since before the pandemic. 65 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,719 Um uh it's a pretty unique and tight format, 20 slides, five 66 00:03:06,719 --> 00:03:08,479 minutes, 15 seconds per slide. 67 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:12,879 Tell us a bit about your talk back in Feb, if you don't mind, 68 00:03:13,039 --> 00:03:16,800 and some of the challenges that that sort of format presents. 69 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,560 And and also, just as we record this episode, you kindly came 70 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,280 back on stage and um um entertained the audience for a 71 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,240 couple of minutes uh last week, um, back at Dublin, back at 72 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:26,960 Personio. 73 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:29,840 So if you've got anything to add about um your experiences at 74 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,360 that event too, that would be lovely. 75 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,159 SPEAKER_03: Well, I suppose when I when I got asked, and you you 76 00:03:34,159 --> 00:03:37,280 gave me free range in relation to choosing what I wanted to 77 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,000 talk about, and sort of lately I've been curious, and every day 78 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,439 there's something different in relation to the future of work, 79 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,039 the challenges of work, etc. 80 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:51,520 etc., as we as AI permeates nearly everything that we do. 81 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,479 So I kind of said, well, why not pick that? 82 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:57,840 And it's only when I started to get down into it and get down 83 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,439 into the real bowels of it, we sort of go, My God, it's it's 84 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:04,800 just so much, and how do I sort of condense that into five 85 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:05,120 minutes? 86 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,639 Challenge number one. 87 00:04:06,879 --> 00:04:11,360 And then challenge number two is how do I keep to 15 seconds per 88 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,400 slide and wanting to get so much across. 89 00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:18,079 So first attempt was as it always is with with 90 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:23,040 presentations, top heavy on top heavy on verbiage, top heavy on 91 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:23,360 words. 92 00:04:23,439 --> 00:04:25,600 And so I said, I need to go with just pictures. 93 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,040 So I tried to make it a bit quirky in in that sense. 94 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,000 From a point of view, I had a picture of Black Sabbath because 95 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,480 I had mentioned about uh uh Andrew Groves of Intel saying 96 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,560 everyone is going to be paranoid into the future. 97 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,600 Maybe he's right, I don't know, maybe we are talking about the 98 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,879 status quo, low status quo as a band as well, and things like 99 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:45,120 that. 100 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,560 So uh I really enjoyed it, I'd have to say it was it was a real 101 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,680 challenge, and uh that's probably why I came back for 102 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:52,000 more. 103 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,839 SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat 104 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:56,399 Podcast. 105 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,680 If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our 106 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,360 articles on the HR Gazette. 107 00:05:01,519 --> 00:05:03,680 Learn more at hrgazette.com. 108 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,079 And now back to the show. 109 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,480 SPEAKER_02: Okay, and uh I don't know if we can announce this, 110 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,240 John, on this episode. 111 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:15,920 If not, I'll cut it out. 112 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:19,279 Um, but just before we hit record today, John kindly 113 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,560 offered to uh to present another uh five-minute talk. 114 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:26,639 He's gonna be a victim again for us um at our at our Cork 115 00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:29,439 relaunch event, which we're aiming for uh middle of 116 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:30,000 November. 117 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,279 Um the exact date, TBD listeners. 118 00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:34,800 Um, but yeah, that's exciting. 119 00:05:34,879 --> 00:05:36,319 Um am I allowed to keep that in, John? 120 00:05:36,879 --> 00:05:39,759 SPEAKER_03: No, I think I think Yarrell out uh say it's say 121 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:40,560 appeal to be honest. 122 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:41,120 It's nice. 123 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:42,160 I I love I love Cork. 124 00:05:42,399 --> 00:05:43,839 It's nice to go down to Cork all the time. 125 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,639 They're a good bunch, and uh I'm sure there'll be a good bit of 126 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:49,199 banter with an old dope coming down talking to them. 127 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:53,360 SPEAKER_02: Now, you've worked across both HR and operational 128 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,519 leadership roles, John, during during your career. 129 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,160 How has that operational experience influenced the way 130 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,360 that you approach people leadership and organizational 131 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,000 development? 132 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:06,240 SPEAKER_03: The dynamic for both is is different because from a 133 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,920 HR perspective, you're providing support to frontline operational 134 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,120 leaders and in different aspects. 135 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,959 And whilst the dynamic for both is different, uh there's one 136 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,439 dynamic that remains constant and what's people. 137 00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:20,879 So we're dealing with people. 138 00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:26,160 And sometimes operationally we don't get the time that we need 139 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:28,000 or we find ourselves. 140 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:33,920 So that that is one thing that I brought with me to HR, uh to my 141 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:39,199 HR career, is that we don't necessarily have the time to be 142 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,279 long-winded in support. 143 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:47,040 We need support to be at a point in time, almost just in time, if 144 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,920 I use a lean phrase from that perspective, Bill. 145 00:06:50,079 --> 00:06:53,519 And I think it needs to be, we need to understand, HR needs to 146 00:06:53,519 --> 00:06:55,120 understand what operational people do. 147 00:06:55,439 --> 00:06:59,759 And I think if HR people don't really understand that, um there 148 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:00,720 can be a disconnect. 149 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:05,439 SPEAKER_02: Since around 2019, 2020, you you've helped lead a 150 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:08,800 major HR transformation journey at Irish Rail. 151 00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:11,600 What what were some of the biggest challenges and lessons 152 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,000 for modernizing legacy HR systems and processes for you? 153 00:07:16,399 --> 00:07:18,879 SPEAKER_03: What legacy systems and processes build up is a 154 00:07:18,879 --> 00:07:21,920 culture around the process itself. 155 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,519 And the process almost becomes a subculture, for want of a better 156 00:07:25,519 --> 00:07:26,079 phrase. 157 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,920 And so the challenge really when you're changing, particularly 158 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,240 long, long-lasting legacy systems, is everything that's 159 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,360 built up around it. 160 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,560 And it's almost like you have to break it down in order to 161 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,199 rebuild it, and that really is the challenge because people 162 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:44,560 become accustomed to build, people become used to a way of 163 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,120 working, and you're sort of saying, we shouldn't really 164 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,759 automate that way of working without trying to see can we 165 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:50,399 improve it. 166 00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:55,279 And it's sometimes it's the improvement because people, you 167 00:07:55,279 --> 00:07:58,959 know, are are precious about certain things, and I understand 168 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:01,680 that, and I get that, and I was precious about them myself. 169 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,279 So there is that there is that whole hand holding, there is 170 00:08:05,279 --> 00:08:07,839 that sort of communications, there's that openness and 171 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:10,879 transparency that one has to bring in order to say to people, 172 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,279 listen, there could be a better way of doing this, and why don't 173 00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:13,920 we explore it? 174 00:08:14,079 --> 00:08:16,720 And explore it in a safe environment where people are 175 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,800 allowed to say, Listen, I don't think we should change that 176 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,680 system, and if we do, what's going to be the outcome? 177 00:08:23,759 --> 00:08:27,279 And to be able to sit there around the table or stand around 178 00:08:27,279 --> 00:08:30,480 the table, which everyone does, and sort of thrash it all out. 179 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:34,879 So for me, it was you know, it was really sort of getting 180 00:08:34,879 --> 00:08:37,679 people to understand why we were changing, and each each 181 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,240 discipline, each business that runs in, whether that's pharma, 182 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:43,679 tech, engineering, traditional organizations, hybrid 183 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,919 organizations, there is a culture and there's a process 184 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,720 and there's a way of doing things that is built up around 185 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:48,879 it. 186 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:52,320 And anytime one decides to change it or one looks to change 187 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,639 it, uh we do have to bring people with us. 188 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,919 SPEAKER_02: Knowing you a little bit now, I would characterize 189 00:08:57,919 --> 00:09:01,120 you as being a very humble, understated guy, but you're 190 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,000 clearly very successful. 191 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,039 You've had a very successful career as a as a leader. 192 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,080 Where does that come from? 193 00:09:06,159 --> 00:09:09,440 Can can you point to maybe a manager or leader that you've 194 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,320 had in your career, in your earlier career, that maybe 195 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,039 inspired you? 196 00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:18,960 Or conversely, maybe someone who taught you how not to behave as 197 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:19,360 a leader. 198 00:09:19,919 --> 00:09:23,120 SPEAKER_03: Listen, I suppose when when when you get to to my 199 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,919 stage in my career, there there is a couple of people that you 200 00:09:25,919 --> 00:09:28,320 would look back and you would say, I really enjoyed my time 201 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,159 with that individual, and I really enjoyed the freedom he 202 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:32,720 gave me. 203 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:36,080 But I I go back to one particular uh instance, Bill, 204 00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:39,759 and I it was my first kind of managerial role, and it's a long 205 00:09:39,759 --> 00:09:40,799 time ago now. 206 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,960 And um I didn't like the way I was being what I felt, I felt 207 00:09:47,039 --> 00:09:48,320 was being micromanaged. 208 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,120 I wasn't allowed to uh do the job the way I wanted to do it. 209 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,600 So I looked to see the manager and I explained that to him, and 210 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,799 I said, Listen, I said, um I probably explained it the wrong 211 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:03,600 way because I went in saying that I wanted to hand back the 212 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,120 job, I wanted to go back to my old job, and that kind of took 213 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,080 him a bit by surprise, and he sort of asked the question, why? 214 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,679 And I said, You're not giving me the time to to grow. 215 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,759 I said, What I want you to do is pick me up when I fall, and to 216 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,039 to to help me. 217 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,399 Um and I said, Because I'm going to fall, because it's my first 218 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:26,159 big job, and I'm going to I'm going to make errors and I'm 219 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:31,039 going to do things 60% right, 70% right, not necessarily 100% 220 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:31,840 right. 221 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,240 And um once we had that conversation, the relationship 222 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,120 just took off. 223 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,720 I he he gave me the space I needed to grow. 224 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,240 Um and it's that that kind of stayed in me. 225 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,519 And I always do, I always try and live, live by that mantra 226 00:10:47,519 --> 00:10:52,320 whereby, you know, nobody's perfect, and people needs people 227 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,320 need leaders to be there for them. 228 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:59,519 Um and and not necessarily to to be doing things for them. 229 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,440 And I think that's a very it's a very for people who are really 230 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,759 content and process driven, it can be a very um difficult 231 00:11:07,759 --> 00:11:08,960 lesson to learn. 232 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:13,120 But to me, that that was the one defining moment which um which 233 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,240 allowed me to grow. 234 00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:16,480 And I I still I still talk about that. 235 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:17,679 SPEAKER_02: Okay, very good. 236 00:11:17,759 --> 00:11:18,399 Thank you very much. 237 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,679 So um just as a follow-up to that, you you you've led change 238 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,440 initiatives in complex and unionized environments. 239 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,039 How do you build trust and bring stakeholders along during during 240 00:11:29,039 --> 00:11:31,120 periods of big transformation? 241 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,639 SPEAKER_03: It's it's the same way, Bill, uh as as in as in 242 00:11:34,639 --> 00:11:37,519 life, if if if if you were to meet somebody on a social 243 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:40,720 occasion and they're they're not, they're they're a bit 244 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,000 closed, that they're a bit unsure, things like that. 245 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,879 Sometimes you kind of say you'll end the conversation and you'll 246 00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:48,320 move on to somebody else. 247 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,639 Um I've always felt that the way to build trust is to be open and 248 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:53,120 transparent. 249 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:54,399 It's as simple as that. 250 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:57,679 If there's for commercial reasons, if there's things I 251 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,360 cannot say, um I'll explain why I cannot say it. 252 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,200 Um I've always been I've always been an advocate for saying I 253 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,759 might say no, but if I say no, I've reasons for it, and I will 254 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:13,600 very clearly articulate the reasons why I'm not in agreement 255 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,360 with a certain course of action or why you know we can't do 256 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,080 certain things. 257 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,039 The trade unions and the trade union movement have at their 258 00:12:21,039 --> 00:12:24,960 heart uh the the right to represent people and to give 259 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,080 people a voice, and that's all really anybody ever wants. 260 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,360 They just they just want to feel as if they're being listened to. 261 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,120 And and yes, sometimes business has to make hard calls and hard 262 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,399 decisions, and that's again that's based on whatever 263 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:40,159 rationale one's dealing with at the time. 264 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,279 But I think if you're open and honest with people, you can you 265 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:46,639 can bring people with you, and ultimately that's what it's all 266 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:46,799 about. 267 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,559 It's about us all moving forward together. 268 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,639 SPEAKER_02: So you've spoken previously about the importance 269 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:53,679 of delivering on the HR promise. 270 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,960 What does that phrase mean to you in practice, John, and how 271 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,480 can HR teams strengthen credibility across their 272 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,120 organizations? 273 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:03,440 SPEAKER_03: First and foremost, I've said it previously. 274 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,919 I'm I'm a firm believer in HR understanding the business that 275 00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:09,679 that that it operates in. 276 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:12,799 So whether that's you know, engineering, whether that's 277 00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:16,080 railway engineering, whether that's big pharma, it's got to 278 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,000 understand what everybody does. 279 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,399 And it it's when it when it can do that, it it can offer more 280 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:22,799 support. 281 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,840 I've on it I've always honestly felt that. 282 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,960 Um I took over an engineering team, and the the first thing I 283 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,639 tried to, or sorry, apologies, a HR team in engineering. 284 00:13:32,879 --> 00:13:35,679 And the first thing I tried to do was to make sure that they 285 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,320 get out and they they they meet the people on the ground. 286 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,480 And I I think that's very, very important. 287 00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:44,240 I think I don't think we can operate kind of just in an 288 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:44,639 office. 289 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,240 I I think any manager or any leader can't just operate in an 290 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:48,399 office. 291 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,440 I'm a firm believer in the Japanese style of being on the 292 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,399 shop floor, that sort of gamba management type attitude where 293 00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,960 you're always there, uh you're always available. 294 00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:00,000 Sometimes you can't be, I accept that, but you can always have a 295 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,759 chat and you can always be with people. 296 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:08,000 And I think doing HR practices for HR sake, Bill, I won't say 297 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,759 it's waste, but it's akin to waste. 298 00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:11,759 We don't do things just for the sake of it. 299 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:14,159 We do things to add value to the organization. 300 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,240 And when we add value to the organization, everybody 301 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:16,639 succeeds. 302 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:17,679 It's as simple as that. 303 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,320 SPEAKER_02: You're very well known through CIPD. 304 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,759 And you played a key role in helping Irish Rail become a 305 00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:25,279 certified CIPD partner. 306 00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:27,600 Why was that recognition important? 307 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,960 And what impact has it had internally? 308 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:34,000 SPEAKER_03: It's had a huge impact internally for us. 309 00:14:34,159 --> 00:14:37,120 Uh to become only the second organisation in Ireland to be 310 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,000 granted uh people development for now with the CIPD was a 311 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,519 tremendous achievement for us. 312 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:46,159 Um but I'm a firm believer in uh that's almost like uh the start 313 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:46,960 of the match. 314 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,080 Do you know what I mean? 315 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,639 It's at least you're on the pitch now, that's the way I 316 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:51,679 would call it in that sense. 317 00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,480 So we've kicked the ball off, now we've got to play the game. 318 00:14:54,799 --> 00:14:58,480 And it's always about constantly challenging ourselves to be 319 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:58,720 better. 320 00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,919 Just because we got it, um, it doesn't mean you can rest on 321 00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:04,960 your laurels and stick the feet under the table and uh you know 322 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,159 proceed from there. 323 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,279 We have to keep on delivering on it, we have to keep on improving 324 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,679 on it, because at the end of the day, we're here to support our 325 00:15:11,679 --> 00:15:14,720 colleagues, and we're using the COPD and the people profession 326 00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:18,159 and our framework standards in order for us to be better in HR. 327 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,039 And if we're better in HR, well then the organization is better. 328 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,200 And so whilst it's important for us, it's not it's not the be-all 329 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:25,919 and end all. 330 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,120 What's important is the community that helps us, it's 331 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,919 the community of the COPD, it's the people that I meet, it's 332 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:36,480 events like disrupt and COPD events that that help us all in 333 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:37,679 HR get together. 334 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,639 And sometimes it's over a cup of coffee, you know, or a glass of 335 00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:41,759 wine or something like that. 336 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:44,639 That uh you can share stories, you can meet with people, and 337 00:15:44,639 --> 00:15:46,799 you can follow up with them, and I think that's very important. 338 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,240 SPEAKER_02: Um, and shameless plug for the podcast listeners. 339 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,559 Uh, if you enjoyed this conversation with John today, 340 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:55,759 check out my fairly recent conversation with Alison 341 00:15:55,919 --> 00:16:00,159 Hodgson, who is the country market director at CIPD in 342 00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:00,480 Ireland. 343 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:01,440 Alison is awesome. 344 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,879 She also spoke at our event last week in Dublin. 345 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,879 John, we're almost out of time already. 346 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:09,840 Before we wrap up, what what's coming up for you? 347 00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:11,679 And how can our listeners connect with you? 348 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:13,279 Is that LinkedIn, email? 349 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,399 I bet you're super cool and on TikTok and Instagram and places. 350 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:17,600 Tell tell us about it. 351 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:20,240 SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, not on TikTok. 352 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:24,080 Not on TikTok and more a follower of sport on Instagram 353 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,799 than anything else, Bill, in relation to that. 354 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,000 No, I tried to keep active on LinkedIn looking at different 355 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:30,240 things. 356 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,679 I I saw a great post this morning about uh made a comment 357 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:34,000 on it. 358 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:40,320 It was about a cello uh virtuoso who was who was coaching a young 359 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,000 up-and-coming uh player how to play a certain piece of music. 360 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,320 The passion in in him was unbelievable. 361 00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:48,399 It's a name's name escapes me. 362 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:50,879 But it just brought me back to playing sport and at the end of 363 00:16:50,879 --> 00:16:53,360 the training session when you really felt you gave it your all 364 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,919 and you were sitting there in perspiration and everything like 365 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:56,159 that. 366 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,519 Just the passion in the man talking to the student about 367 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,120 using the full length of the ball as as as he pulled a 368 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,559 certain note across, and he said one thing that struck me, he 369 00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:09,920 says that that chord is I think he used the word dark, I could 370 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:10,480 be wrong. 371 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,039 So play it dark, and and things like that. 372 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,920 So I I I I'm passionate about all forms of learning. 373 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,119 It doesn't necessarily have to be about sort of you know people 374 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,079 or things like that. 375 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:24,079 You know, I I I've got I've got curious or as I've got older, 376 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,920 which I think is healthy for for for everybody. 377 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,039 SPEAKER_02: Very good. 378 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,319 Well, that just leaves me to say for this particular episode. 379 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,119 I feel like I'll probably be badgering you in the near future 380 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:35,920 to come back on. 381 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,720 Um, but for this particular episode, John Kennedy, thank you 382 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:39,839 very much for being my guest today. 383 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:40,880 SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much, Bill. 384 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:41,839 It's much appreciated. 385 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,720 SPEAKER_02: And listeners, as always, until next time, happy 386 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:45,359 working. 387 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,440 SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. 388 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,519 If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some 389 00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:58,720 of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? 390 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,720 And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to 391 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,519 the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.