Top 5 HR Trends 2025 - Episode 2

Speaker A: Welcome back to HRBytes. Ah, in part two of this podcast, we're going to finish our conversation on the five mega trends and talking about shifting mindsets as we move on to trend three, which is all around maintaining a productive workforce by moving from well being to sustainability. Jeanette, you gave us an insight into this, uh, in the earlier trend Trend. And clearly this is a topic that um, spans across everything that all of us do. On this podcast we're seeing this increasing recognition around the importance of well being from organizations. How has this base developed? Building on some of what you mentioned earlier?

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So we were talking earlier about moving from 101, shopping wellbeing 2.0, uh, putting it into some sort of pillars to well being 3.0, looking that more holistic approach and sort of you talked about David, about how do we do that? And sometimes it's quite daunting. How do you start a wellbeing strategy? But it doesn't. You just ask people what they would like. You know, it's a very simple approach we can have. We have a well being maturity index at aon. It's just a quick checklist. What is around, how does it fit, what your employees need, uh, and then you're off and running. So it's making sure you have that integrated approach we had when we did our um, global wellbeing survey a few years ago. We had sort of 70 to 80% of companies said, yes, we've bought something. Then it got to, okay, well was it coherent? Was there some sort of strategy to it? And from that sort of high 70s to 80s, it went all the way down to sort of 50s. And then when you said, okay, you're doing something, but are you measuring it? Is it linked to your business goals? It was down to the 30s and this is the tail off, this is where we're seeing now, the uplift people now looking to that side of uh, the responsibilities. Okay, how do we make this impactful? It is, as you've mentioned, communications, it's knowing what you've got. Is it fit for purpose? Does it meet your employee needs? And those questions are now bubbling up to the surface. It's becoming much more company awareness and it's great to see the question. The trend is moving from well being to sustainability. So wellbeing is already being recognised now as having that all encompassing value it touches across all our, um, business lines. And so that's really where we're seeing that evolution. Okay, wellbeing has a place. How do we sustain this in our workforce?

Speaker A: And you touched on there around organizations bringing in new solutions from a wellbeing perspective, Stephen, pensions aren't you, uh, but I think everyone would agree they're really, you know, they're a key foundation to the pillar of financial well being. Are you seeing that conversation being elevated from a retirement and wellbeing perspective with your clients?

Speaker C: I am indeed, yeah. I think as well, you know, back to Jeanette's point, it really brings home all the, the interconnectedness of sort of the different pillars of wellbeing as well. So as you say David, uh, typically pensions has been about long term financial security and long term financial wellbeing. Over more recent years we've started to see more of a focus on shorter term financial wellbeing as well. And that's because quite a lot of pension plans might come with support around financial education and budgeting, helping people decide how much they can afford to save now. But perhaps what I hadn't fully appreciated is kind of the overall impact that uh, financial distress can have on people's other well being aspects as well. So when we've looked into this in a bit more detail, we kind of see that people who are struggling financially, the knock on impact of that can be things like more anxiety, more worries, problems sleeping, relationship issues, families breaking down, you know, people having to decide whether they can afford to turn the heating on, people being evicted just because they haven't got that sort of shorter term financial buffer. And so these things inevitably sort of the poor financial well being can then lead on to sort of poor mental and physical well being as well. So for employers, if they can, if they can sort of preemptively support people around their sort of financial well being, um, you know, as part of their overall strategy, this, this can really sort of prevent people getting into that, that sort of desperate situation which, which is obviously going to have an impact on their, you know, their ability at work and their sort of absenteeism presenteeism at work as well. So, so yeah, it is interesting. We've kind of seen it from a long term savings coming to look at a bit more short term financial security but also thinking about how does, you know, what we do there in the retirement and pension shorter term saving space, how does that join up with all the other sort of pillars of well being that are being provided and making sure it is integrated and it is joined up.

Speaker A: Ah, you've just uh, really well explained and demonstrated how one area can unravel um, very quickly in an individual's life. And what you also touched on there was obviously performance and work and productivity. Um, I'm interested in how you are seeing organizations start to elevate the importance of this by linking it to business performance. Because of course we know that as soon as business performance, shareholder value comes into any conversation, any investment in a business, it, it really does take a priority. So are you seeing any connection there, any ways that organizations you work with are really being able to demonstrate that link to validate the need for wellbeing solutions?

Speaker B: Absolutely. And you're right, that's getting a little bit of fatigue. Um, people are feeling they're over programmed in the wellbeing space. But under outcome they're saying, well, we've done all this. Where's the other side of the equation? How is it measured up? And um, there have been some great uh, studies showing this, but maybe I'll just tell you a couple of stories. It's always um, good to sort of. So we're talking about when you start a wellbeing strategy and we're talking about engagement when we talk to HR in particular, like, well, our employees don't want to tell us there's fatigue in the workplace. People are overworked, they are tired of seeing no change, perhaps, or forever, whatever reasons I have. So aon, we have a new tool. It's a neurotech employee survey tool. And the cool thing about this approach is it's both sides of the equation. It's how employees are thinking, but also how they're feeling. So the more emotive a subject, the more powerful this neurotech tool is. It really helps employees provide their unbiased, unconscious, instinctive feelings about a situation. Because, you know, uh, you do those surveys. How are you feeling? Everyone's like seven, seven, seven, I'm fine. Or worse. They're just in the middle of the boxes. But with neurotech, you can't be in the middle of the box. It's measuring on your reaction times. So it's a very unbiased, pure way of getting insights into the employee space. So looking at how you gather initial data, how do you show a difference? So employee engagement, if you start off with something like a reflection, how are people feeling? What are their real challenges and using that to inform change. We did this with a company that was struggling. It was a haulage company. The, um, drivers had terrible MSK issues, lots of absenteeism, trouble getting the shifts of the lorries being moved to the right places. So they come like, well, what's happening here? So we undertook um, an employee survey using reflection and we looked at what was going on in the mindset of those lorry drivers and they were very much feeling that they weren't heard. They felt that the benefits weren't for them. They're on the road the whole time, they're not there to log onto their computer. So they were feeling as a marginalized group in the company. Um, when we looked at what they were doing in their day job, what's happening is when they drive their lorry long distance, then they wait at the depot, another team load that lorry up and then the driver comes back on and drives off. So there was this dead space where the lorry drivers were just left on their own in the canteen or down the road. So what they developed was a whole program around MSK Health for the depots. When they arrived, they were provided with walking maps so they could use their hour to actually have some fresh air, have some exercise. Every lorry cabin was provided with a set of msk, uh, the bands we all use, well maybe just me bands we use that we're trying to stretch and improve our mobility. So they had a pack in their cabin for use whenever they wanted to. So just those two interventions, walking maps, box of support. Their MSK claims went down, their absentee went down. It was just so great to see just a little bit of correct employee listening with cost effective implementation gave them a huge increase in productivity.

Speaker A: That's a brilliant example. And again it highlights um, this importance of gathering that underlying data to help position the solution to then track through to the end result that you're looking, um, that you're looking to observe. Celine, from a global perspective, where are you seeing wellbeing, being prioritized?

Speaker D: I mean I think exactly as Jeanette was describing it. Well, being 1.0, 2.0, 3.0. So I think from a multinational perspective it was about 60% of multinationals were saying, well being is, you know, a priority for them and is really guiding the way that they are structuring their benefit strategy in the immediate time and in the future. Um, but I think what's interesting when you're multinational is that you can have an aspiration for well being 3.0. And I think I'm going to use these numbers Danette, because I think I love them. But well, being 3.0 is absolutely a concept that is resonating with clients, organizations. They understand to really make an impact it has to be an organizational effort as opposed to I give you a flu shot in one, one, uh, in one market. So I think they understand the the concept and they understand that that will have the most impact. But when you are a multinational, you are working across multiple countries. So the challenge there is how to create a consistent experience. But that takes into account the local realities and where as well as the local market maturity. Because, you know, actually from a market perspective they might be at well being 1.0 and the UK and France might be at well being 3.0. So how do you balance our global aspiration, which actually what is really feasible and practical, um, at the local level? So I think everything that Jeanette just mentioned, absolutely. I think that resonates with multinational, the employee listening the data. But when you are operating in multiple markets then you are basically making that challenge, you're multiplying it and again you're trying to drive towards some consistency. So I think that's a special challenge from a multinational perspective. But 100% agree with what Jeanette was sharing and that's really the most impactful.

Speaker B: And just to follow on David, to sort of segue for some of the things that you, uh, expert on, it's that data, using that data dashboard, that analytics. And I feel sometimes when we talk to clients they're a little bit daunted, like, okay, I don't have a big data dashboard. In fact my absence management is just ad, uh hoc on a spreadsheet. So it's, you know, you can start small. Just start is the key thing. Just start. You know, you've got claims data, you have got absence data of sorts, you have got productivity maybe you've got appraisals, you've got exit interviews. There are several strands of data sources. If you pull them together it will give you an opportunity to have that holistic look at the well being and health of your employee population. We did um, an undertaking for multinational to Saleensbot, a multinational credit company. And they had, as you can imagine, every single health and wellbeing benefit you could want. In fact they had it in triplicate in some places. Um, but the well being was still tanking, it was still going downwards and they couldn't understand what was happening. Um, so we did an analysis of their data and two things came to light which were hidden, hidden in the noise. One was actually it was their young 20 to 30 year old men who were struggling with high cholesterol, with high bmi, uh, body mass index. So you think, oh, these are the, the youngsters who maybe have moved home, it's their first job, they're just sitting in the office and they're maybe getting McDonald's on the way home or other brands. Um, and then the other thing that came to light is communication. They didn't know where to find this multitude of benefits and visas. I mean, it's apps or it's emails or it's pushes and it's making sure you have those Personas. And we're talking about transitional changes across most of our topics today and we're seeing it in how we communicate with our employees too. And this building a Persona so people can recognise. Oh, actually that sounds like me in my lifestyle, in my milestone today. And it helps you navigate through, um, that more holistic support that you're going to have, seeing across multinationals and uh, those sort of leading companies.

Speaker A: Thank you, Jeanette. And again, what we're seeing from an organization when we're looking into the market, you touched on technology and partners there. The organisations that we're connecting with are those who are finding the link between wellbeing and risk. And that is obviously a key component for any organization to consider. Celine, going back to you and moving on to trend four, which, uh, is all around elevating total rewards, return on investment with improved governance operations. Clearly this is something that you spend your whole day, um, thinking about. Um, would you like to expand on that for us?

Speaker D: Sure. I mean, I think I'll get us started from a multinational perspective again, because that's the view I have, um, which is really in our 2024 study when we asked companies what was your priority? So dei, diversity, equity and inclusion was high, well being was high, customization was high, but number one and two by a landslide was governance and compliance. So organizations saying, you know, having, or wrapping our arms around what we have, how much it costs, where are the efficiencies? Again, still number one priority. And I've been in this business for 20 years and that's quite consistent, but I almost have seen a bit of a spike, um, over the past few years in terms of focus on governance. It had kind of, you know, plateaued a little bit, but we've seen a bit of a spike in terms of governance being, uh, an increasingly, um, you know, big challenge for multinationals. And I think that's linked to compliance. Right, that's linked to compliance around the world in the UK and the US and variety of markets is becoming increasingly complex to manage. Right. As a multinational, I need to understand all the different, you know, new regulations that are coming out in the space of, well being, in the space of remote working, in the space of pension, um, and I need to manage this and be able to execute quickly, uh, in a way that, you know, manages risk for the organization and also manage, um, costs for the organization. And what we're hearing from multinationals and you know, UK local clients as well, especially as, you know, we're in the start of 2025, but, you know, huge, um, focus on cost, um, efficiencies and do you uh, do more with less, really. Um, and, you know, so you have the cost aspect and you have the, you know, from a resources perspective, we have to do more and we have to manage more, you know, regulation changes around the world and we have to act very quickly on them and pay transparency back to, you know, trend. One of the earlier trend is also one of the regulation that we need to keep track of. So I think multinationals are getting a little bit overwhelmed and also really very much questioning the effectiveness of the governance structure that they have in place. And I think that's an important distinction. Right. We might have a structure in place, but how efficient is it and how are we executing on it? Um, so I think, you know, from a multinational perspective, what I'm seeing a lot of, in terms of what to do about it. Right. We talked a little bit about the problem and why it's, it's. Why it's a hot trend for 2025. Um, just, I think really going back to the basics around, you know, just making sure we have access to comprehensive data. Right? Not just, you know, my defined benefit data over here or my insured benefits data over there. We want to have a full view of the benefits program that we offer, some of it in Europe especially. And Anthony will know this in preparation for pay transparency. So we need to know what we have. We need to know who our vendor partners are. In a number of different markets, there's some pretty, um, you know, prescription, uh, prescriptive vendor processes. So we need to know who we have, how much we're spending and also who's doing what within our organization. And, you know, using that as a baseline to really figure out where are some of the efficiencies. Um, and one of the areas that we've seen, you know, a lot of movement, again, thinking from the perspective of efficiencies and thinking about the perspective of, you know, how do we even, you know, almost outsource the concept of, you know, compliance monitoring is around, I think pension program. And I think, Stephen, you probably have some good examples from a, uh, UK perspective here that, that you might want to share.

Speaker C: Yeah, thanks, Celine. Definitely. And I think there's been a massive trend in the uk, Anyone working in the pensions world will be aware of this to essentially outsource as much as the investment management, um, the sort of regulatory compliance and governance as possible. And uh, this has been borne out by sort of a move to move pension arrangements into a sort of a group personal pension or a master trust structure. Um, the idea being that, you know, if you can outsource a lot of this, um, sort of operational aspect of a pension scheme to a third party, it sort of frees up the time and the resources within your organization on focus on areas where you can sort of really add some value, um, to get, get better bang for your buck or as this is a UK audience power for your pound perhaps in terms of your focus and your time. Um, so yeah, sort of allow people to think about the more strategic elements or even the, you know, the communication side of things, as we've talked about earlier. So yeah, there has been this big trend and actually I think generally it's worked pretty well. Um, there are sort of a relatively small number of large pension providers in the UK who can run these sort of pooled arrangements on behalf of multiple employers. But I think it's probably, it's not the end of the story. Um, and what we're very keen, and certainly I've seen with uh, a lot of um, more paternalistic or even just more um, cost conscious organisations is making sure you're continuing to get that value. So you might have made a decision to outsource your pension provision and selected a suitable partner and pension provider at that point. But it is key to make sure that there is some sort of monitoring of that going forward. So whilst you might have outsourced the, for example the investment management, um, it's worth checking that that is still um, the right choice going forwards. Um, some analysis we've done recently, we've looked at sort of the top performing quarter and the bottom performing quarter of the main pension providers in terms of their sort of investment returns. And actually that could be the difference between 50% of someone's retirement savings. So for your employees there is that expectation that although you may have outsourced to a pension provider, you are still on top of this, you are still monitoring this and if they find out that you've selected somebody and then not looked at them again and then when they come to retire they've got 50% less money than they could have had, um, there's going to be some serious questions to answer. So, um, whilst there is this trend to outsource as much as possible. We are also seeing that there is a lot of value to be had in making sure that you are on top of the outsourced providers and just making sure that you are, you are sort of monitoring that on some sort of regular basis.

Speaker D: And we're seeing that trend not just in the uk, we're seeing that trend in other markets in the us. Um, and I would say David as well, we're seeing that trend in other type of programs. So again, kind of taking, you know, the concept that Steve was sharing kind of the advantages of it, we're seeing it in areas such as, you know, global financing, we're seeing it in areas such as, you know, even insured benefits. So I think, you know, so that's one area of the model that Steve described is actually available and gaining um, popularity in other markets. But I would also say into even other type of programs.

Speaker A: Great. And Anthony, um, obviously again a transparency is just a really good example of where um, this governance is coming through and looking for an ROI around that. How are you seeing that move forward?

Speaker E: Yeah, I think um, uh, the longer term impact of this uh, David, is for the longest time I think the challenge around benefits, at least from an employee perspective, has been do I have transparency around it? Do employees understand the true value of what they're getting? And so there's an element of this that we feed into pay transparency. I'd come back again to a statistic from our employee sentiment survey that said 57% of people in the UK are willing to sacrifice existing benefits for a better choice. And is that a better choice or is that a more informed choice? Do we really understand all of the different benefits we're getting and the value of them? Because obviously if we can as an organisation, if we could be more effective in that communication piece, then the roi, those benefits is going to improve. So coming at it from an employee perspective, I think that's a really important thing to be thinking about. There's massive pieces in the things that Celine and Steve have talked about from an organizational perspective in what we're paying for and how do we make sure we maximize the return on that cost. But I think then further downstream as we think about employees, the communication piece is essential and you can really start to feed that in to um, the pay transparency aspect when you think about how uh, that's being communicated to employees.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Thank you. So moving on to our final um, our final trend, trend five, which is all around managing how AI is impacting the workforce. Again, like all these trends, it's A hot topic for all of us. Um, it's impacting us in personal ways in our jobs here at a on um, but also it's probably that one question that we all get asked by our clients um, at all times. I think one of the areas from my perspective that's really interesting when you look at this is actually just taking a step back in terms of overall workforce statistics and really what we're seeing is there is this trend around a global labor shortage. Um Corn Ferry have done some research that's found that there's going to be 85 million jobs um, that could go on fill by 2023. We've obviously got a annual population growth that has slowed um, somewhat around the world. Um and shrinking population just means very simply that there's less growth um, and also more challenges in the world as a result. And clearly as we've been discussing, Jeanette yourself especially on this is healthcare um, and workforce crisis is something that's very very real. So I think everyone would agree that to unlock this growth around the world full stop, we really need a breakthrough um, in technology. And particularly when we look at businesses, um, we see that they're overwhelmed. It's whether topics, things that we've discussed today such as burnout, stored productivity, fixed capacity, these labor shortages, um, and then on the customer side the demands still exist if not increasing. So people uh, don't want to be put on hold. They want a response instantly, um, but yet they still want a personal and empathetic uh, response from, from those, from their uh, from their providers um and they want to work with a true expert. Um again there's an interesting stat that's come from Slack who's obviously a very well known uh, internal messaging provider that's owned by Salesforce. Now that 41% of time is wasted on low value um, and repetitive tasks. And I thought that was interesting because it's always important when we think about these trends going and looking at where the market's going. Um, are there actually technology providers um, who are investing in this space? And I think everyone knows that with the likes of Amazon, Microsoft, Google that that is definitely happening. Um, I wanted to dig into a little bit around them and are some of these problems actually being solved for um. And speaking to Salesforce who are obviously one of the global leaders um, in client relationship management software, um, they've now been using this agentic AI within their own organization and what they found is they have about 30,000 weekly conversations that are handled by an AI agent and 85% of those can um, be resolved by that agent that they have. So I think this is, um, for all those HR leaders out there, a solution is coming. I, uh, don't think it's been deployed at scale yet, but we're seeing in these large technologies companies that are bringing these solutions to market, um, that they really are starting to see, um, uh, an impact, um, happening. And I think it's always important when we talk about these topics to just understand sort of maybe where we are on that maturity curve. So, um, we're all obviously familiar with chatbots. They're great for kind of fixed rules, repetitive tasks. Um, I think we all are used to those in our consumer lives and constantly trying to rattle through the questions so we can get to a real human, um, and that really the evolution of that has been copilot. So I know um, for us at aon, we have an experience with using that ourselves internally, uh, which I've personally seen has been brilliant from a productivity perspective. But they're smarter, um, and they really give that sort of tailored assistance. But it still very much is a copilot, uh, it's the energetic Internet, if you like, that we've got and where the next step of this is, is, is moving into this world of agents and the way we want to think about those. And the question I'm going to pose to the group is these are um, agents that know your business. Um, they can plan, they can reason, they can take action. They're incredibly scalable. Uh, we saw that obviously, uh, just last week with it, with a new, a new AI agent coming into the, into the market, development cost perspective, completely undercutting the market. So I guess, um, I'm going to um. Steve, I'm going to start with you from a, from a retirement, from a pensions perspective. Where, where are you seeing that AI and particularly the future of agents can have a positive impact?

Speaker C: Well, I think it's something we're, we're interested in and a lot of pension schemes and employers are looking at, in a lot of detail at the moment. There is some concern, I've got to say before I move on to the positive, there is some concern that people will be getting um, inaccurate information or incomplete information, um, at the moment. Um, you know, we've seen where we've trialled some AI, um, in terms of, um, could it answer people's questions about the pension scheme. There is a bit of risk in there at the moment. So I don't think there's anything ready to be deployed in that space that is going to give people the right information because obviously there's the risk of people making bad decisions which could happen, have significant financial consequences. But going forwards, I think if we can get to a situation where we're sort of comfortable with um, what information um, the AI can provide and indeed where the limitations are. So I think as long as people are comfortable that they're going to get an answer to a question, um, but appreciate that it's not necessarily the same as getting a personal recommendation from a financial advisor, for example, and just making sure that distinction is built in, then I think, you know, there's a big future for answering what predominantly, probably about 90% of the questions around retirement savings are fairly straightforward questions. You know, it's things like how much do I save, how much does my employer pay in what happens to the money, what age can I take it out? All those sorts of things can be really easily picked up with an AI agent. Um, probably better than the chatbot technology as you sort of say at the moment. Um, so it's just making sure that the AI is trained well enough that it doesn't try and then move on to the next level and tell people how to invest for the retirement or sort of things that are probably best left with someone who's got a more holistic understanding of someone's circumstances, that's brilliant.

Speaker A: And it's really helpful to kind of draw out that regulatory piece again. I know as someone who prior to Aon, uh, works in the startup world, um, that might not always be the area that's top of mind. So, um, a really good bit of advice there. Um, Anthony, we've seen in our own research that 29% of UK employees are unsure of the impact AI is going to have on their jobs. Um, for the first time in this recording, this is not a pay transparency question, but a far more broader talent related question for you. Um, what are you seeing from a, uh, job, um, kind of skills perspective in this space?

Speaker E: Yeah, it's a great question, David. And I think, um, the possibilities are somewhat endless on this topic. And there is first of all the question of the speed of adoption of the organization of AI. Um, but we're certainly working with organizations to help them think about what are the skills that we need for our future workforce. That starts at a fairly basic level of what are the skills that we have, um, are based around the roles that we have within the organization. And then what we can do is start to think about what are some of the skills that are easily replaced. To your point, you've got the enthusiastic intern who can replace potentially a lot of tasks and some of the very basic skills, right? They are the things that can be replaced within a two year or three year time period. What are the ones that start to dip into the four and five year time period? Because you know, that starts to help us as an organization think about the skills that we really value as well. And it also leads us down the path of thinking about our talent in a different way. I talked about this, I touched on this earlier. Um, um, the idea of this internal market for talent, right is how can we move people around the organization based on skill sets and how can we attach skills to roles more effectively? And by the way, that doesn't have to be on a permanent basis. This could be about project teams and capabilities. Um, but certainly the impact of AI on those skill sets and on where we might lead in the future can be profound. And it's something that we think organizations need to start to be looking at and start to be thinking about. Obviously again coming back to the point of, within their own appetite for AI adoption, as Steve's pointed out, some of the uh, some of the points around we need to be mindful of this and that's certainly the case for lots of our clients is they're not necessarily willing to dive in with both feet, but there's opportunity there. And I think one of the statistics around the adoption of AI, something like 25% of organizations that adopt AI do so on the basis of it being able to increase productivity where they're perhaps not able to up staff or recruit more than they have in the past.

Speaker A: And Celine, you obviously get this global view in your role in. Is there one uh, area that you hear from your clients that they can see AI is going to come in and have a real impact for them?

Speaker D: Um, I think from a multi, again from a global perspective you need to have enough volume of AI usage in multiple countries for a multinational to really start to see that. Um, I think when I speak to clients and it goes back to the conversation we're having around, well, being earlier around data and access to data, um, clients see the big opportunity from an AI perspective in terms of how is health data, um, accessed quicker, cleansed, analyzed, um, in a faster way. Because again when we're looking from a global perspective we have issues around type of data issues, you know, errors or inconsistency in the information that's being received. Um, and providers are not, and insurance carriers are not necessarily being as efficient as they could be. So they see it as a huge opportunity from a carrier perspective and also from a public health perspective. So again kind of leveraging AI, um, to support with you know, symptom checking um, and also with ingesting the data into the carriers and then elevating it to them. So that's where a lot of the excitement is and I think that's where a lot of the opportunity is from an AI perspective if I kind of just focus on benefits only. I think the second piece as well that clients get excited about is just again how do they leverage AI to really enhance the employee experience? Right. We talked earlier about um, making uh, programs meaningful um, but also specific um to the individual um, experience. So very similar to what, what Steve was saying. How can I take advantage of that as this type of technology advancement? How can I take advantage of that to really elevate um the employee experience um, around benefits, around total rewards. Um and I think clients are just really excited or really are asking for more and more solutions. So I see kind of the interest coming from probably those two areas.

Speaker A: Brilliant. And Jeanette, just to finish on that topic, this is obviously something you and I love to talk about. Going right back to the top of uh, this discussion. We were talking about choice and personalization and really building on what Celine talked about there. Are there any immediate areas from that well being perspective where you see AI coming in to help achieve that?

Speaker B: Yeah, sure. And obviously you think of the medical world. There are huge advancements across the spectrum from cancer to occupational health. And one thing I just wanted to raise, we haven't really talked much about you know, the add ons from the insurers or from your third party providers and an area such as occupational health. Now it's our duty of care, as Steve was saying, with your master trust, make sure that they are staying front and leading. And that's kind of if you as a company can't, but maybe your vendors can. So for example you look at occupational health. It used to be when you're off sick, then you get it. Now it's being brought forward. Once you've got a pain you get it. But what's happening in oh now is actually you can not just have a YouTube video of how do you do that stretch? But the camera will watch you, turn you into an avatar and tell you whether you're doing that stretch correctly. It's moving from passive to a proactive way of addressing that occupational health. And it's those sort of advances that help us uh, as the employees be more successful when we take up those benefits when we use those services. So it's embracing AI in translating those medical issues into solutions. But there is still the oversight at the end of the week looking at that program of that human physiologist, um, or physiotherapist, um, so there's a huge area of excitement in that wellbeing space of how to embrace AI to be more effective in our well being usage. And the other area which Celine touched on is that faster data analysis. Looking at that holistic picture. You can look at how many reactive claims are there versus proactive and look at ways of analyzing the data that you as a mere human might have taken you months, but a couple of um, strands of data run the correlations and it helps you have that deep insight into what's really going on in that employee space. So both those areas I think are really exciting in their wellbeing area.

Speaker A: Thanks. What a positive, uh, uh, place to finish on. So thank you very much, uh, to my guests. Uh, thank you very much to you for listening. Give us a like, give us a Follow the link to the article around the 5hr trends can be found in the bio of this podcast. And stay tuned for our next episode. Thank you very much.