How to Develop Effective, Empathetic Leaders With Unreasonable Hospitality Author Will Guidara

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: HR Breakroom is brought to you by paycom, empowering employees nationwide with HR and payroll tech in one easy app. Learn how Paycom, um, simplifies business for your entire workforce@paycom.com

Speaker A: hello, and welcome to the HR Break Room, Paycom's podcast podcast dedicated to the hot topics in HR. I'm your host, Ariana Stark. We've all had some pretty memorable hospitality experiences. I hope the ones that stand out to you were positive. I know in my experience, whether those experiences were good or bad, they all had something to teach me about how we take care of people. Now, maybe those people are customers or clients, or maybe they're even your coworkers. Even if you're not in the hospitality industry, we all serve others. But have you ever experienced unreasonable hospitality? Or have you even heard of it before? If you've ever dined at eleven Madison park in New York City, it's possible you've witnessed unreasonable hospitality in action. It's about challenging the conventional notions of what service can be. In doing so, today's guest, author and restaurateur, Will Guidera, helped elevate eleven Madison park to global acclaim as the world's top restaurant. He not only created the concept of unreasonable hospitality, but literally wrote the book on it. So if you can't make it to the Big Apple, you can also see unreasonable hospitality brought to life on the Emmy award, uh, winning series the Bear, where Will serves as the co producer. Well, thank you so much for stopping by the HR break room today.

Speaker B: I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker A: Well, it's such a pleasure to have you. So I really want to just start right from the beginning. So what made you want to become a restaurateur in the first place?

Speaker B: M. Well, my dad was a restaurateur, um, my entire life. And, gosh, my dad was my hero growing up. I mean, to this day, he's my greatest mentor, my best friend, and I always wanted to be like him. He was a superhero. When I was a kid, my mom was diagnosed with brain cancer, and that ultimately rendered her into becoming a quadriplegic. And my dad, in addition to working restaurant hours, which anyone who either hasn't worked restaurant hours or hasn't had someone in their family who does it, those are long hours. In addition to doing that, he took care of her and was an extraordinary father to me. And honestly, it didn't matter what he did for a living. That's the thing that I would have wanted to do. I used to go to work with him every Saturday though. And he would go to work in the office and drop me off at one of the restaurants. And from an early age, I fell in love with him. I fell in love with the chaos of the dining rooms, but the fact that there was a choreography to that chaos and also this idea that you could bear witness to all of life's experiences happening simultaneously within the same four walls. When I was 12, he brought me to this restaurant called the Four Seasons for dinner. It was my first properly fancy meal. And I don't remember too many of the details of that meal. I remember that, um, I wore that Brooks Brothers blue blazer with the gold buttons that I really begged him to buy for me so I could look proper for the meal. I remember that it was the first time in my life, when I dropped a napkin, they brought me a new one. And when they gave it to me, they called me sir. But, uh, more than anything, I remember that for a few hours, it was like the world was put on pause. And all that remained was me and this man who I loved so much, sharing a table and genuinely connecting. The way I articulate how I felt then was that they had created this little magical world in a world that desperately needed more magic. And from that point forward, and I'm not being bombastic when I say that, it genuinely is true. I knew I wanted to be in restaurants.

Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And just the background of, um. Yeah. How you came to be who you are today, just those things that influenced you throughout your life. Um, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker B: My pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, I love how you just talked about how it created that world of magic, like, you know, time stood still. I think that's just really incredible that you can create that just from doing those little things like picking up the napkin and being so attentive. I think that's.

Speaker B: That's really incredible, but I think it exists. Those were things that they did to create the conditions for connection, but those are just mechanisms. And it's the thing that excites me most about hospitality is that everyone has an opportunity to identify their own mechanisms to connect, create those exact same conditions, regardless of whether you're at a restaurant or in a hotel, whether you are serving a customer or your colleagues. And, um, really, it all comes down to this idea that hospitality, it's just being creative and intentional in pursuit of relationships. And anyone, regardless of discipline or position, has the opportunity to do that. And it's just about seizing that opportunity, choosing that it matters. That in doing so, you can make a difference in other people's lives and, by definition, your own as well. And that's a beautifully empowering idea.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that's so impactful and just such a good perspective to have that it can transcend any industry. It doesn't have to be the hospitality industry. We can all be hospitable, um, in who we serve. I think that's really, um, so important. So at the legendary New York City restaurant eleven Madison park, you built a reputation for creating a hospitality first culture. Um, what are some examples of times that you offered unreasonable hospitality?

Speaker B: You know, we had this position on the team. It was called a Dreamweaver. And their entire job was just to be there in the dining room with us every single night, such that the people on the team had a resource to help them bring ideas to life. I think the presence of that position on its own is worth underlining, because as I travel, every leader I meet says they want better hospitality. And yet, while they are all more than willing to invest whatever is required to make the product or service better, they are reticent to do the same when it comes to how they make people feel. And yet nothing will take root in the absence of resource. And so that's what that position was there for, to just be a resource. And once we added it, we were creating these little magical moments all the time. There was a time when our reservationists overheard, um, not overheard. Engaged one of the people that was coming later that week. And it was a guy who had a reservation, a table for two, and he said, you know, I'm really excited to be there. I'm a big foodie. My dad is not. He is more of a Budweiser steak and potato guy, and I just hope he has a good time. We had these champagne carts, effectively, these champagne buckets on wheels, and we'd push them over to the table to begin people with a glass of champagne. And the Dreamweaver went to every bodega in the neighborhood to buy every single bottle of, uh, Budweiser they could find. So, like, Bud Light, Bud Heavy, whatever the different versions were, we loaded them in the champagne cart to greet that table. And this. Dad, when you go to one of these restaurants and it's not your thing, it can be overwhelming. You can feel out of place. You can feel a little bit insecure. And when you feel all those things, you have an inability to fully settle into the experience. The moment he saw that cart filled with bottles of Budweiser, he knew it was a place he belonged. And you could almost see his shoulders sag, his body settle in, and he had an amazing meal. We did things like that all the time. But each one m while they were different because they were created in pursuit of an individual, were there to accomplish the same thing, to communicate very clearly to the people we are serving. You matter. We see you. You belong here, and you are welcome. And when you can communicate all those things through something as simple and silly as putting a bunch of bottles of Budweiser on a cart, I think that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. I mean, just the intention behind, you know, each of those things. It's, um, you know, things are busy. I'm sure it's, you know, chaotic. But just to have that, the intention behind it and being so specific to really cater to that person is just, I think, incredible.

Speaker B: I mean, what it requires. And by the way, I love that you use the word intention. I use that word constantly because I think unreasonable hospitality happens at the intersection of creativity and intention. Um, but it requires truly active listening, Training yourself and the people around you to have your ears open wide, such that when someone drops a little nugget of wisdom, some little bit of information that you could use, that you were there to grab onto it, that you care enough to listen and then to do something with what you heard, it's remarkable to me. Uh, a lot of people have good ideas on cool stuff they can do for other people. But the difference between those that genuinely embody these ideas are those that make the choice to invest the time to bring those ideas to life.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. Being present, I think that's such a key part of this is slowing down enough to notice because our culture is so onto the next, onto the next, and just being present and slowing down to catch those things. I think it's really, um, just such a good reminder for all of us, I think, in every, um, part of life, not just our work, 100%.

Speaker B: I mean, here's the reality. Everything that we are going to talk about ultimately centers around relationships. And relationships don't exclusively belong to work or life. In fact, many of the lessons you learn from those in life can be applied to those in work and vice versa. Um, but being present, it will make you better at all of those relationships. Whether it's with your spouse, like putting your phone down and actually listening when they're communicating, whether it's with your kids in the precious hours you have with them on a daily basis, um, giving yourself the grace to be fully there with them. Um, I define Being present as just caring so much about the person you're with that you stop caring about everything else you need to do. And that's not an easy thing to do.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: But every single one of us is capable of doing it simply through investing the intention required to bring it to life.

Speaker A: Wow. Well, um, you know, as co producer on the acclaimed series the Bear, um, you show, you know, some. I think there's examples and stories of, uh, you that were inspired by your life and your experience. So how has your philosophy of unreasonable hospitality really influenced the show? Can you take us through, you know, some examples of that and just kind of, um, your part in. You've played a part in, um, just how they've told that story.

Speaker B: So, um, um, yeah, I mean, the crew on that show is incredible. Um, Chris Storer, who runs the show, he wrote the show, he's kind of the creator of the entire thing, is a remarkable leader. And I say that because they were already leading that team using the principles that I talk about before I got involved with it. And I think that's an important place to start because a lot of people are excited and interested to hear about how unreasonable hospitality contributed to what we see on tv. Um, and they're generally asking about scenes and all of this. But fundamentally, when you lead a culture using these principles, the output will, by definition, be better. Um, television and restaurants are not dissimilar. And there are parallels in pretty much every single industry where there's a lot of different teams on one team and they don't all necessarily get along naturally, whether it's in some tech companies, sales and product. Right. They have differing interests in the restaurant business, the kitchen and the dining room, where the cooks think the servers are lazy, the servers think the cooks are jerks. Right. Same is true on a TV show. But how they have managed that culture, recognizing that everyone is on one team, that whether you are on screen or behind the camera or putting together the set or designing the costumes, whatever it is, they've created something where everyone cares about everyone else. And in doing so well, they are just implicitly going to create a better end product. But they've taken the ideas of unreasonable hospitality to life in other beautiful ways. The episode that was perhaps one of the most famous on that show, um, was the Seven Fishes episode. It's this crazy, intense episode about a Christmas dinner. And it's all of the various family coming together and all the drama that invariably ensues when a big family gathers. And it was stacked with some very, very significant actors that were guest actors on just that episode. They've now become more frequent participants, um, in the show. But in the beginning, they created a dreamweaver whose entire role was to make every one of those guest actors who is just joining the team for a couple days, feel loved figuring out what was their coffee order, what did they want in the green room, what were all the little and big things they could do to make them feel truly valued beyond just whatever paycheck they were receiving? And each one of them has now celebrated the fact that they did better work that day because, well, they were willing to invest more into the show because they felt invested in by the people creating the show. So I say all that because, yes, in the script, there's tons of unreasonable hospitality stuff about how beautifully addictive it can be to bestow graciousness upon another. How through hospitality, we can find purpose, um, about that beautiful intersection between excellence and hospitality by caring about the details, but also caring about the people charged with bringing those details to life. But fundamentally, as a leader, the most scalable thing you can do is invest in the people that bring the product to life. And how that's been manifested in the creation of that show is perhaps the most inspiring thing of all.

Speaker A: Wow. Thank you so much for, um, just walking us through that and giving us some background. I think that's so cool that they performed better. They had just an overall better experience, and the product they delivered was better because of that unreasonable hospitality that they experienced. And how it just. It really is like a domino effect. It impacts everyone.

Speaker B: And it's the same in any workplace.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: There's no human being alive that won't give more of themselves to help something succeed once they feel genuinely cared for by the people they're doing it for. Uh, it's just not possible. And yet we spend so much time talking about how we want our people to treat our customers and not nearly enough time just treating our people in that way, Showing them what right looks like, setting the example that they can follow, and then pay forward.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Um, and by the way, these are people you see every single day. It's really fun to care for the people you know, and hopefully love.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, can you, um, tell. How can you tell? I guess, when someone is, you know, performing hospitality rather than truly embodying hospitality, can you talk a little bit about the difference between, um, just kind of going through the motions and then really truly embodying it?

Speaker B: I mean, gosh, either one is better than nothing.

Speaker A: True.

Speaker B: Right. Like, how many it is becoming so rare out in the world that anyone is ever willing to go above and beyond for you. But, gosh, it feels good. And if there's someone that maybe is not yet deriving significant pleasure out of doing the right thing for you, but they're still doing it, heck, I'll take that over nothing at all. Um, I just think the difference is when someone is following a script versus someone who is leading with their heart. And I'm not. I don't want to over dramatize this. It's not like all of hospitality needs to be delivered with all of your whole heart, right? Sometimes it's just about doing the right thing for the person in front of you and trying to make sure that they feel served. Um, I guess what I'm trying to say is if someone is trying to deliver hospitality to you, whether it's because they're following a script or a system, or because they're doing it based on their own instinct, both are still good. Because if it's the former, it means that someone in that organization has invested the time to create that script or to develop that system. And that is the right place to start. Because I do believe that once you've done things for other people enough that you bear witness to gratitude, um, on their faces when you've done them, you will, over time, become more and more addicted to the way that made you feel, and you will start to be more authentically delivering it. But some people need a place to start. I think everyone has this in them. They just perhaps have not worked for a leader or within a system that has really drawn it out of them.

Speaker A: Well, that's great. Well, I'm curious. Um, will you give us an example of a time when someone showed you unreasonable hospitality, what that was like?

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So I'm going to give you two examples. I always categorize how you bring this stuff to life in three groups. One size fits all, one size fits one, and one size fits some. Um, so bear with me while I break those things down. One size fits all is someone who has the wherewithal to look at an experience and figure out how to elevate parts of the experience in ways that other people haven't had the wherewithal to consider. So I'll give you an example of one size fits all. Um, I travel a lot. I stay in a lot of hotels. One thing that has really started to drive me insane is the fact that I can't log on to free WI fi in a hotel unless I'm enrolled in their loyalty program, which, by the way is the most counterintuitive thing. They are trying to earn my loyalty by doing things that are implicitly not in my best interest. So they want to earn my loyalty by making me less loyal. So a very, very simple thing that I actually believe in this day and age is extraordinary hospitality. I was staying at the Four Seasons in San Francisco. I went to log on to their Wi Fi. Uh, you just press a button and you're on it. It was that simple. They were giving me the thing they know I needed without asking me for anything in return. They elevated that touch point. They prioritized my interests over theirs. That is hospitality. One size fits all. One size fits one is the dream weaving stuff, the beer cart I just told you about. But an example of when that happened to me. Um, I've been very fortunate. Since when you write a book about hospitality, a lot of people do really hospitable things for you, but I never take them for granted. And, um, when I travel to do a talk, let's say oftentimes there's some stuff in my hotel room, some gifts or, you know, in some cases they've spent a lot of money on this stuff. Um, I am somewhat well known for my love of a fast food cheeseburger. And so I did a talk for the Dallas Cowboys and I get there probably around 8:30 at night to the hotel. I'm doing the talk in the morning and I get to the hotel room, there's nothing in there. I'm like, oh, maybe they're not that excited for me to be here, whatever it was. But then 10 minutes later, a knock on the door and it was someone from the Cowboys franchise holding a tray from Whataburger with a piping hot cheeseburger and a thing of fries that was so amazing it didn't cost them very much. But they gave me exactly what I wanted and they made me feel really seen by the gesture. And I got to have a delicious Whataburger. I'd never had it before. Burger in my hotel room at the end of the night. And it was a perfect nightcap. One size fits some is where you do simple pattern recognition. Um, there's these recurring moments that happen in every business. They're not things that happen always for everyone, but they're things that happen sometimes for some people. And if we can name these things in advance and then decide how we want to react every time that thing happens, develop assets if needed or whatever such that we can deploy these reactions easily, we can create magic all the time. And Every business has these recurring moments, the good ones and the challenging ones. Um, there's one that happened to me that I just thought was so inspired. I was on a plane. We pulled out from the jet bridge, and the dreaded announcement came over the speaker from the captain saying, ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry, there's an issue with the plan. We're delayed. I'll get back to you with more information as soon as we have it. And those are the worst delays. A, because you can't run to the Starbucks and get a coffee. B, because there's always some dude like three rows back that lets out that groan of frustration and tries to make eye contact. And the morale in the plane starts spiraling downward. But this time, the pilot came out of the cockpit. There, uh, were three families on the plane. And he goes up to the first family with the little kids and says, hey, do you guys want to see the cockpit while we wait? The kids got super excited. They went. Went to the second family, same thing. Third family, same thing. Now there were no families left, but we were still delayed. And so he just said really loud, not over the intercom. M just using his voice in the aisle, do any adults want to see the cockpit? And adults started going back anyway. Eventually we take off. We were probably delayed, like, 40 minutes or something. I said to the flight attendant, what was that? She goes, he's the best. Every time we're delayed on the tarmac, that's what he does. He just gives people tours of the cockpit. He took a recurring moment, a negative one, and actually made it a positive experience. The morale was not bad on that plane. In fact, to the contrary, it was exceptional. I think we all have these opportunities. Identify the things that will continue to happen. Figure out what is the most awesome way to respond every time they happen. And you can create unreasonable hospitality all the time.

Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's, um, just so neat that that whole experience was something that would be so memorable for all of those people, and you included. Um, and I think it shows great leadership, too, just how the pilot set the tone and the flight attendants and everyone got to, I'm sure, participate in that and helping get people to the cockpit. And just that intentionality is just so unique. And I think that's so.

Speaker B: There's also data around it, whether this is as an employee or a customer. If you have an experience and it's great the entire way through, you'll talk about it a little bit. If you have an experience that goes wrong, you're going to talk about it a lot more.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: If you have an experience that goes wrong, but then they invest the energy to make it right, that's the thing that you will talk about the most, far more important than one where nothing ever went wrong. And I think that's the power of this guest recovery, employee recovery. It's one of the most impactful forms of marketing. We're willing to put in the work to make things right when they have gone wrong. It's great marketing, it's great retention. Uh, it's always an opportunity. That's not to say that we should force things to go wrong, just that we can fix them. But when they do, it's always an opportunity.

Speaker A: I love that. And you talk about this a lot in your book, but just it's all about how you make the person feel. Um, so talking about leadership and just, um, empathy. How can leaders ensure that empathy is always at the center of their organization and that not only for employees, but also the customers they serve well?

Speaker B: So empathy, right, it's just effectively making people feel seen. Right? Like showing them that you care about their perspective as much as you do your own. And I think there's a few different ways. One, it's a quote that I like to reference often because I think it is that powerful. It's by David Marquet, the retired naval captain. He said that, uh, in most organizations, the people at the top have all the authority and none of the information, while the people on the front line have all the information and yet none of the authority. A, the only way to brainstorm genuinely innovative ideas for the customer is to bridge that gap between authority and information. But B, the only way to lead with genuine empathy is to make sure that you have that information. And that's about. I mean, we've all heard the my door is always open thing, but that requires them coming to you. What about just leaving the office and going to them and bringing the information back? It's almost like when you want to connect with someone, you don't just wait for them to eventually work up the courage to come and ask you for a conversation. You take the initiative and you go gather the information. The more you know the people on your team, the more empathetically you can lead them. And that is done in a couple different ways. One, just understanding their collective perspective, and then two, just trying to get to know every individual on your team as well. Not just as an employee, but as a person. When I get to the restaurant in the very early days Family meal is when the team sits down for dinner before we open for dinner. And in most restaurants, this is the case. All the hourly employees sit at, uh, a bunch of tables, and then the managers all sit around one table. And within a few weeks, we made a rule. Managers were not allowed to sit with managers. Go sit with the people that you are leading and don't talk about work. Just get to know them as human beings. Because when people feel like you are investing in them as a human being, uh, they can trust you a little bit more. They're more willing to follow you. And not to mention the fact that now you know who they are as a person and you can lead them with more empathy. Either understand what makes them ticks, you are there to motivate them in the right way. Uh, or knowing what kind of things they are struggling with in life so that you can support them through those things. Or just getting to know what their superpowers are such that you can set them up for success within your organization. So that's a big part of how to lead with empathy. Getting to know the people as a collective, exchanging information and authority and individually just pursuing those relationships. Um, I think the other thing is perspective. And this is advice that is only good for people coming up in their career. But when I started, um, in restaurants, I was 14. Literally was the only thing I did until I wrote this book. Um, I worked my way through the entire ecosystem. At my dad's, um, I was about to say encouragement, but he wasn't encouraging me. He was just telling me what to do at that point. And so I was a dishwasher and a busboy and a cook. And with every job, and these were summer jobs or after school jobs, he would make me journal at the end of every shift, I had to write some stuff in a journal. And I was so annoyed by it then. But like many things that your parents do that annoy you when you're a kid, you come to be grateful for later in life. And this is one of them. Because as I journaled, I was able to document my perspectives along the way. Because here's the thing, perspective has an expiration date when you're a busboy. That is your perspective. The moment you get promoted, you can hold onto that for a certain amount of time and be the most empathetic server to busboys because you've just walked in their shoes. But after a while, you're going to lose it. Ah, same goes for when you become a manager and then a general manager and then a director. Of operations and then an owner. I still have those journals and I would reference them constantly because if you can tap back into the perspectives of the people you are leading, you will lead them more effectively with more empathy.

Speaker A: Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's just really, um, incredible that you have had the opportunity to do all of those different jobs and have that empathy and perspective. And I think the journaling is such a great um, tool. And just to remember those things and have those memories and be able to look back on those experiences to really um, to just remind yourself what it was like to be in that person's shoes. I think that's amazing. And I love that you brought up that um, David Marquette quote. I was actually um, thinking about it because we um, our software, I want, we're able to bring all of that information to the leaders in the palm of their hand. So they know how long has Alice been working here, when was her last promotion? And now our leadership, our CEOs that maybe don't know who that is or haven't interacted with that person very much now have that information and can um, make decisions with empathy and um, having more of the information and more of that story, um, so they're able to um, just make these intentional decisions and um, kind of see more of the full picture, um, using that. And it's on their phone. They can access it, um, whenever, wherever. And so it really arms them with that power, um, as they go into a meeting or into a room. And so I think that's just really, um, that kind of bridges that gap or kind ah of solves for that um, issue that sometimes there is like you mentioned in that um, quote. So I just think that's really.

Speaker B: And also like, even if you're just using that information to begin a real life conversation.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Like, do you remember. Do you ever watch the show Veep?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, yes, yes.

Speaker B: With, um, Elaine from Seinfeld as the vice president.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: And Gary is her aide. And when she's at an event, he's whispering into her ear, hey, this person has this kid. And da, da, da, da, da. And so she's always able to start a conversation with someone with enough information about them that makes them feel known by her, which means the person is more open to opening up about whatever it is they have to say. Same is true in leadership. Yeah. All the stuff you're giving them in that tool is great.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And you can do a lot with that. But I actually think one of the greatest things you can do with it is a leader to go up and say, hey, I just want to say thank you for 12 years of incredible service.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And I know you did this, and I know you did this. I'd love to grab a coffee and just hear what we can be doing better or to learn. Any ideas you have about making our service better for the customers, for your colleagues, the moment they feel seen by you, they are going to invest more in return.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that's great. And knowing where they went to school, some of just those details of their life, having that information just allows, who

Speaker B: knows, maybe you went to the same school and now you have something to talk about, right?

Speaker A: Yes, exactly. It just kind of opens that conversation up. Uh, kind of gives you a place to start, you know.

Speaker B: Well, that's what I said before. Hospitality is being creative and intentional in pursuit of relationships. Leaders should be pursuing relationships with the people that work for them. And that's a beautiful tool to help them do it more effectively.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, you know, you've spoken about how important it is for a leader to expand experience, the service that they're providing, um, just as a customer would, so they can, you know, get that, um, perspective. So how have you done this in the past?

Speaker B: Oh, well, I mean, I used to dine at my restaurant four times a year, every single year. Um, similarly, when we started opening hotels, I would stay in the hotels all the time. Um, and, yeah, that's. I was in an industry where it's pretty fun to dine in restaurants and stay in hotels. But I just think it's crucial because the reality is, whatever menu we planned under the fluorescent lights of the kitchen or in the back office, you receive it differently when you're sitting in the dining room. When you stay in a hotel room, no matter how unbelievably thoughtful you tried to be, in the design of that room, you're gonna stumble onto something that you didn't think. Think about. Um, until you've experienced something as the receiver, you have an inability to be the best server. And I, uh, just think if we're not, like, putting ourselves genuinely in the shoes of the people we are serving, we are going to have blind spots. And so there were every single time I ever ate in one of my restaurants or stayed in one of the properties, we would make changes the next day. There was always something I would see. I remember in the hotel, in the beginning, we set it up the way that many hotels are set up, where the shampoo and the conditioner and the body wash were in these Beautiful little bottles on the sink. Um, but I don't know about you. In my home shower. They're in the shower. And so the first time I stayed, I went into the shower, took a shower, reach for the shampoo, realized it was out there. Now I'm dripping water all over the floor to go out. And I was like, what are we doing?

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: And so we changed it. We had done it the way that every other hotel to that point had done it, but clearly no one had ever stayed in their hotels if that's the way they were doing it, because that's the wrong way to do it. That's a very, very, very small example of many, but with very few exceptions, anytime I see someone really, truly experience their product, as opposed to like some half hearted attempt at secret shopping, they will always figure out ways to make it better.

Speaker A: Absolutely. We can always improve, right? I mean, lifelong learners.

Speaker B: And we should always be serving the thing that we want to receive.

Speaker A: Absolutely, yes.

Speaker B: And until you have actually put yourself on the receiving end, uh, it's impossible to know whether you're doing exactly that.

Speaker A: Right. And I think too, a lot of times maybe leaders have the vision and, um, you know, the passion, like you've been sharing. So how can leaders effectively communicate that purpose behind their organization's work and why that matters to their employees? So they can also share that same passion and drive.

Speaker B: I mean, uh, over and over and over again. I think people undervalue the power of words. They don't spend enough time trying to fully articulate what their non negotiables are, what they believe in, what is the purpose of the company, where do they want to see things go? Um, I know there's a lot of people who think it's cheesy to do that. I think it's the opposite of cheesy. I think people need language to hold onto. And so first it's just taking the time to articulate it, and then once you've done that, talking about it over and over and over again with every ounce of your passion, for two reasons. Repetition matters. Uh, if you really believe in something, you better be willing to say it enough that you grow sick of hearing yourself say it. Otherwise I guarantee you've not said it enough for it to bleed into the culture. It's not just about how often you say it, it's about how much passion you say it with. Because passion is contagious. Um, you can infect others if you really believe in what you're saying and if you're willing to scream it from the mountaintops, then you can get other people to believe it too.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And you can always see that in someone. You can tell they're being genuine about it or just going through the motion. So.

Speaker B: But a lot of people are embarrassed to be, uh, as publicly passionate as they really are. They don't think it's cool.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, and that's sad because the whole point of a leader is you are meant to define what is cool. You are meant to make caring cool, not dim the light of your enthusiasm so that other people think you're cool. That's, that's completely opposite of, I think, the entire reason for being a leader in an organization.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, um, I want to transition to talk a little bit more about the technology. And actually, before we dive into that, um, one thing that I think, um, I just wanted to bring up that PAYCOM does really well is our service. So we have a dedicated specialist that you call every time if you have a question or need help. You're not in a phone tree. Um, you're not calling a call center. You're calling a person who knows exactly what, um, the makeup of your system, your software is. They know how to make any changes. They know you personally, they've been on this journey with you as you've gotten it set up, and they know exactly, um, how it's set up and how to best cater to your needs. And I think that's something really special that, um, we really pride ourselves in and thrive in. Yeah, it's just having that connection, that one on one, um, person that knows you that you can talk to and, um, call every time, you know, you'll get the same person. So.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's kind of a game changer.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I know our clients love it. And it's just, um, such a huge, uh, thing that I think has been so important to our leadership, um, to be able to offer that. So. Yeah. But, um, since unreasonable hospitality is deeply human, how can automated technology help support that mission without detracting from it?

Speaker B: I mean, I think, um, one of my favorite things to do is to identify pain points and at minimum, make them a little less painful. Even better. Make the pain points actually great. The thing I told you about the plan, that was a pain point, and through giving people tours of the cockpit, it was not just less painful, it was actually awesome. And I was grateful for that delay, for getting to bear witness to all the enthusiasm on people's faces when they left that cockpit. I think that is the entry point for technology. Is look at the pain points, because in many cases, technology can solve them. Whether it's just logistically not possible to staff people in customer service 24 hours a day. So invariably people are calling and there's no one on the other end of the phone. Technology can help there, whether it's in people during either moments of celebration or fear, trying to gather information about what, what benefits are available to them from the company. And in many cases, that being a really convoluted and annoying process that lacks any form of clarity. Technology can help there. I go on, but I think the message is clear. Look for the pernicious problems and many of them. Technology can help you solve. That does not make you less human. It makes you more human because it means you care about solving other people's problems and you're going to do that in whatever way you can. And technology is a beautiful tool. I think the other thing is just the general approach you're taking to introducing technology, to adopting it. Um, like the tool you just told me about, where people have this dashboard. A leader, listen, it's a tool. It's a tool for a human being to use. When a leader just stops thinking they need to lead people because these tools are there, then it's actually going to make things worse, not better. But if a leader understands like, okay, now I have all this information, how can I use it to make me as human as humanly possible? That is important. Recognizing that technology does not replace us. It's a tool to make us even better than we ever could be. In its absence. I mean, in the restaurants, the amount of time that we spent gathering information, recording it, organizing it, all this stuff such that when you came into the restaurant, I knew just enough about you to make you feel seen from the very first moment. It was insane. These days you don't need to invest nearly as much time into that. Now, um, a shortsighted business person would say, all right, we just saved a bunch of hours, let's cut a few people. Someone with a more long term view of success would say, right now, the people on our team have even more time to invest in those relationships once people arrive. So I m think those are the two things I'd say. It's how you adopt it. But a good starting point is identify the pain points because there's generally a lot of low hanging fruit right there.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that's great too, because just how you talked about the technology allowing them to be more human, I think HR is really kind of the heart of a company. Because they are really human resources again. And so, um, just giving them the time back because you're automating things that were, you know, maybe on paper before all these processes that are taking them away from that truly human connection they can have with their employees or other people in the company.

Speaker B: At so many companies in over the course of my career, the human resources person or people have so much busy work that they are the people who end up spending some of the least time with actual humans.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I think that's one of the game changers of everything that's happening right now is like, if that entire team stays intact and they can just invest 50, 60, 70% more time getting to know the people that work there, being there to listen, to, understand, to explain. Gosh, that's powerful.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I think just how you described it was perfect. I think having that time back really empowers people to have that human connection, to practice hospitality and do things that are maybe unreasonable that they used to not have the time to do. And so, yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think technology leveraging it in that way, um, really just empowers people to be their best self and have that capacity to, um, you know, serve the people around them.

Speaker B: Well, also, in a lot of companies, let's name it historically, like, you either set up a meeting to go to hr, which is never based on like, hey, everything's great, I want to go see someone in hr, or you're called into hr, which is never a good thing. And. Right. And it's because they don't have enough time to actually initiate conversation and connection just for the sake of pursuing the relationship. And that is where we really should be going.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Will. Well, um, what's one thing that a listener could do today to really show unreasonable hospitality, whether that is at work or at home? Is there anything you want to add before we wrap up?

Speaker B: When I got married, one of the best pieces of advice I got was, marriage is hard and awesome. But the most successful marriages are those where every morning, both people wake up and make the intentional choice to pursue the other. And so I always like to play this game. We've been doing it for years with new people beginning to adopt these ideas. Which is tomorrow morning, just pick someone with whom you want to pursue the relationship, and then through a bit of intention and a bit of creativity, do something. It could just be like, hey, we just get a coffee and connect. Could be through buying them a gift. It could be through leaving them a voice note expressing gratitude or curiosity. It could be anything. But if every single day you choose to pursue someone, it's remarkable the impact you can have on others and the extent to which you just find your life so much more fulfilling to live.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I love how you brought that up because I think too you talk about in your book just, uh, that it can. The feeling that it gives you, that it brings you, the joy that it brings you to serve another person. I think, um, that's just something really special that I think we can all learn from today.

Speaker B: M hey, thank you so much.

Speaker A: Well, thank you so much. Well, it's been such a pleasure and great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today and for our listeners. If you're looking for tools that can help give you the efficiency you need to create some unreasonable hospitality of your own, paycom is here to help. Communication and training are essential to reinforce the values that make unreasonable hospitality possible. That kind of culture change is easy with paycom. Learning to quickly share training, even create your own courses that employees can complete from anywhere. As you build the kind of organization people want to be a part of, our talent acquisition tools streamline the process of recruiting, hiring and onboarding new employees. You can guide your staff with Performance Management, a Paycom tool that simplifies the process of assessments and reviews and lets employees set and track goals. And when you need instant, accurate data about your workforce, there's no need to navigate. Just ask. I want paycom's industry first command driven AI engine in a single database. And I want to thank our listeners for tuning into this conversation today. We hope that you'll join us again in the HR Break Room very soon.

Speaker B: Be sure to follow and subscribe to HR Breakroom on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. For more episodes, visit hrbreakroom.com or follow us on social media. Thanks for tuning in to this episode and we can't wait for you to join us again inside the HR Break Room.