S2E12: Sarah Thomas, Closing The Biggest Deal in Company History

Speaker A: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of how the Deal was Done. Each week we sit down with the best enterprise sales executives to unpack transformational deals and discuss the mindsets, strategies and actions of world class performers. This week I'm delighted to have Sarah Thomas, who is a strategic accounting executive at Verkada. Sarah, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thanks Matthew. Excited to be here. A little nervous, but excited as well is totally fine.

Speaker A: You're going to do great. I was really looking forward to this one. You actually came highly recommended from another guest we had. As a must have person on the show, I definitely have to say your energy and enthusiasm has come through in all of our prep calls and um, I'm really looking forward to it.

Speaker B: Thanks. And it's so fun that we got to discover that we were both at Elon University. I, I was there a little bit before you, I think, but fun to figure out we have the same alma mater.

Speaker A: Yeah. Fellow alums, it's exciting. Elon was actually an amazing place. I, I felt like it taught me a lot about just being a more dynamic person and outgoing and I was super shy when I got there and I left feeling much more socially comfortable and I think it set, set me up in a lot of great ways. Was it the same for you?

Speaker B: It was, it. It's funny, I studied education there and looking back, I've been in sales the last decade plus of my life and I'm like, man, we have an awesome sales program there now and I wish I would have taken advantage when I was there, but I actually got to work at the university for nine years after I graduated. And so I got to see the admissions side work in the athletics department, which was fun, doing some fundraising and then the business school and career services. So I got to touch a lot of sides of the university as an, as a staffer and it just keeps getting better and better kind of the programs and. But the type of student is. I feel like you and I have that there's a little bit of this grit, this idea that like there's so much to learn and there's a growth mindset I think that everyone has there. That's exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Very cool. Well, Sarah, I was really excited. I wanted to hear, uh, a little bit around this transformational deal that you did last year that actually brought you to the number one global performer at Verkada, which is a really incredible achievement. And congratulations again on the success. Walk us through this deal, how it started, what the challenges were, uh, and that, uh, closing journey. Give us the Quick version. And then we'll unpack it in a little more detail.

Speaker B: Sure. It's funny when you think about these deals like, okay, when did it start, when did it finish? And it never really is the true beginning. There's usually a story from prior to when I got involved in the deal. And so this customer actually had engaged with Furkata years prior, decided on another solution. And, and then when I stepped into role, I've been for kind of three years now. So about three years ago, I stepped into the role, tried to engage that customer as well as the partner, didn't really get anywhere because they had already made a decision on a solution. With some creative prospecting and timing being on our side, they were, they found themselves in a situation where they needed a new solution. It was not working as they were implementing the one they decided on. And so uh, the partner that they were working with, so Verkada is 100% we sell through the channel. So we rely on our partners often to help us source deals, although we can get into them as well. So we had a partner who said, hey, we're working with this customer. They're actually at a place where they're going to do an RFP to decide on another solution. So we got brought in at the same time as we were prospecting into some of their franchise stores. So they have corporate run stores as well as franchise. So it was a mix of, you know, a little bit of luck on the timing as you know, some hard work trying to prospect in as well, knowing this would be a good fit for Verkada and vice versa. Um, and then we worked through the deal with the partner. It was October, September, October of GOSH, 23 and then it closed in January of 24.

Speaker A: That's incredible. So when you said you did some really creative prospecting because you knew they were a great fit, what was the prospecting and how did you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit creative is probably a little strong, maybe uh, too strong of a word in the sense that we were doing some basic stuff which was we have an EDR program, Enterprise development reps who actually make calls on behalf of us account executives. I was simultaneously trying to work with our channel sales manager to get back in with that partner, try to have conversations, had conversations with the engineer on our team that engaged that partner and that customer years ago as well as the rep. Um, and then our EDR actually got us a call with one of the franchise owners who owns hundreds of stores. So I actually tracked down the guy that works, excuse me, the EDR got us a call with the right hand man of the franchise owner. So we both kind of tag teamed. I tried to get in with the franchise owner, I did. We ended up having a couple calls and it turns out I think that helped us to build some brand awareness again with this customer so he could then speak to corporate. He knew corporate was looking for a new solution. So just some multi threading. Right. And teamwork there to try to get back in. Um, and then once we did have the new partner engage us, we, you know, I actually had to do a lot of our team, had to do a lot of selling that partner in Verkada as well, because they hadn't really done much with us. So it was kind of a multi threading with the partner as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean it sounds like it went really smooth, but does it normally operate like this? Do you have a pretty high hit rate or did it take, you know, was there kind of like some, some rejection or, or some, some false starts here?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I'm laughing because, forgive me if I'm being a little bit vague about the opportunity. There was definitely a lot of bumps in the road for sure and definitely a lot of folks involved in the opportunity. That's why it's, it's, uh, an honor. It's also like, man, this was definitely a team effort. So it's hard to be the one to talk about it all the time, but definitely a team effort. I would say lots of challenges, right. Like this customer just invested a lot of money on a solution that lucky for us, was not, not going well. It was not scalable. So I think that's the big thing is like our solution was something that allowed them to scale close to a thousand corporate locations that they managed, but lots of ups and downs there. Being able to engage the tech, their tech team, their IT team, again, new. We also had a new champion. So the timing was great that this customer brought in someone who really, I would say was a change agent. But what comes with that is like she really knows her stuff and put us through the wringer, like in a good way. Right. As far as the product, the negotiations, the scalability, the install piece. And then there's where that complexity comes in, is that Verkada is the manufacturer. So we also have that, that partner piece where that's the person that's either going to be installing or subbing out to install the product. So Verkada sells physical security solutions. We make them, we manufacture cameras, alarms, door access, air quality sensors. But then really it's the software that we offer, the single pane of glass software that's cloud based, that pulls it all together, that's really scalable, easy to use, provides more than just a camera for safety. Right. It goes into the operational efficiency. So as you can imagine, a deal that size, it was a record setting for Verkada. I mean, we had to involve so many folks, both on the customer side and on our side. But lots of bumps in the road as far as, you know, we like to do a proof of concept. We were able to get our product set up, but I mean, it was a point where things were not going well. The install of that was a little tricky for, for various reasons. And so we had to overcome that kind of towards the end of the sales cycle where we almost were like dead in the water, like, okay, this is not going to go move forward. I joke with people that a deal like that is going to die and come to life maybe 17 times before, um, it comes to fruition. Or at least it feels like it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I totally relate. It's great that you were able to get back on track. I'd love to hear a little bit more about that. I've seen pilots that didn't go well and then were saved at the last minute. And also pilots that we lost the deal because the pilot was just not successful. So how did you bring that together and actually get it back on track?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, candidly there was a moment where that was really challenging for me personally. Um, there was conversation. The customer basically said that we had communicated one thing to her in the sales process. And then during that proof of concept, it looked different. And of course from, from our seat, it was, you know, just a, A, uh, miscommunication somewhere along the way. There was no intention to mislead. And so that was really difficult, I think for me personally, because I felt like my integrity was challenged. But what we did was we absolutely like owned our part of it. And we said, hey, we're willing to like make this right and figure this out moving forward. It had to do with the scope of the project and the, you know, the product needed at each store and things like that. So when you, when you multiply that by a thousand stores like that, that cost certainly adds up and there's a miscommunication about what's needed as far as materials. So that was one of the things. And really honestly, working out at Verkato, working out a deal that size, like the pay structure for it, like the, the deal structure itself, what we Were kind of navigating, um, and every deal is unique in some way. Right. But a lot of the deals we do kind of look similar in deal structure. And this one we just had to get a little creative as far as. Because we have the hardware component and we have the licensing component. What does that look like? Verkada offers multiple license terms. Um, you know, and again, incorporating the install plan. Hey, we're going to buy this from you, but we may not get it all install for another year. So what does that look like as well? So just kind of navigating, you know, just personal challenges and then deal structure challenges. And even from a technology stand with a standpoint, uh, excuse me, getting into bandwidth needed and things like that, that again, involved so many different teams that we had to make sure everyone was on the same page. And I think I learned in that, like, we have so many smart people at Verkada, but it's like if the customer, this isn't landing with the customer, or they're not completely grasping, like, be that miscommunication or misunderstanding or it feels like, man, this was misleading, when really it's just a matter of needing to clarify sometimes. And so I learned that through the process, like, don't assume that they know what you're talking. You know, customers always know what you're talking about or partners know what you're talking about. Like, let's verify that, keep things in writing and have as many calls as needed to make sure folks feel good about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's a really good point, but let's unpack this a little bit. So this, this is something that I'm experiencing a lot where when we're working on these strategic deals, I, uh, wonder if it's just because of the environment that we're in. But companies, especially in software, they have way too much shelfware. They have way too much software that they've bought with the intention of one day installing it and used to be fine back in the day. Right. They could just buy tons of licenses. We'll use these eventually. And now companies have way too much software. And so I, I am seeing increasingly that, you know, you mentioned, like, don't assume that it, that it makes sense to them. I would also say, like, don't assume that the. I think so often we assume that the objections are on the product, the features, you know, does it function better than a competitor? Like, we're very much on the here and now right in the deal. And a lot of times our teams that we're selling into partnering with they're thinking like, what is year two, year four, year six going to look like in this engagement? You know, do we have, can we scale it out to these teams as fast as the as this company is telling us? And I imagine that took a lot of just like you could call it a target operating model or implementation plan, but it probably took a lot of convincing around. Here's how we can actually roll this out and scale it.

Speaker B: Yeah, you hit the nail on the head that that was probably one of the biggest objections or I wouldn't even say objection. Just like points of clarification, like where we need to define what this looks like. So first of all, because Verkada offers, you have the hardware piece that needs to be installed and then you have that license piece that starts immediately. We had to get creative there with, okay, the implementation plan might not happen in three months, it might take a year. So what does delaying those licenses look like? Verkada's also been able to develop more like we have more of a pay over time option now for customers to be able to say, okay, uh, maybe you're implementing this in the next three months, but you're going to add stores as you go or you're, you don't have the capital. Right. You just don't have the capital right now to do it. So being able to get creative with pay over time as well as you hit on something like I think trust is so important. Like how do they trust again? Year two, year three, year four, hey, we're partnering with you beyond just, okay, we're just buying this equipment, someone else is putting it in. This is great. How do we truly partner with you and how do we trust that you're a good partner and how do we trust that you can do this for someone our size? So there was a lot of like pulling, you know, pulling the right references and getting them on the phone with the right people and building that trust that we could deliver. Yeah, year two, year three, year four, really. And they had been burned by their previous solution, like because they were mid implementation and it was not scalable. Right. It was continuing to cause problems that they were trying to solve in the first place, which is, hey, we need to keep our stores running and we don't need our operators dealing with cameras that are down or um, you know, server that's down, something like that. So going to a cloud based solution. But they had to trust us. They have to trust us. We were able to put into place a person who supports their account called a Verkada global services rep, which is huge because that person walks the line alongside not only them, but the partner as well as they're implementing, as they're installing new stores, new locations. So just building that trust. And like, you know, like I do, like that happens during the sales part. That happens when I'm being told, hey, you said something earlier in the sales process when I'm thinking, that is not what I meant, that was not my intention. That's, you know, and so being able to own that again, like build that trust through going through kind of those hard things, um, they see how you show up in the sales process, but also painting that picture, like, what does this look like? Year two, year three, year four. Now, uh, I'm making Verkada. Luckily, like, because we are cloud based, it's, it really is a simple, simple product to use. But also like the support structure is really strong and eliminates a lot of the need for someone rolling a truck out, for example. Like, a lot of it can be handled remotely and we have such a strong team of engineers. So those are the kind of pieces you forget in the sales process. Like, oh, we just assume everyone knows the value of that, but like, man, the value of having Verkada support as well, in addition to the integrator just makes a world of difference. So those are the things that you've got to show that, hey, not only can you trust me enough to buy from me, but enough to continue to partner and that we're going to grow with you.

Speaker A: Yeah, you made so many good points there, I think, especially on, um, just even selling the value. I mean, it sounds like you're, you're really selling a premium offering. I have worked, most of the companies I've worked for, we were always the premium offering. And the first thing, the first objection you get is, why am I paying? I found a $30 camera over here. Why am I paying for this like, massive system? And it's like to, if you're not prepared for that, you can just get defeated by that objection of like, well, you're going to charge x. We found 30% of x on the market somewhere else. And to really unpack that and slow it down and say, okay, here is what the cost is if one of your cameras goes down. Here is how much time your technicians are going to have to spend and here's what they, they cost per hour. Here is the cost of, you know, replacing that, that, that, that uh, component and if it doesn't work and all this and suddenly you're building this whole Picture. And, and then Verkada is actually the cheaper option. Right. Because the other path has all of this additional complexity and manual work and you got to hire. Hire a team to service it. And so that, that idea around business case selling is just so, so important.

Speaker B: Yeah. The tagline, like my old boss always would say, is like, you're getting a better product with a lower total cost of ownership. And I'm like, why wouldn't you, like, come on, guys, why wouldn't you go with ricotta? Of course. Right. I drink the Kool Aid. I talked about this on another podcast. But like, I like you. I've been at places that are a premium offering. Right. And for a reason, though, for. And so. And I'm bought in. I drink the Kool Aid. But why wouldn't you go for that? Well, that's where you, you have to help demonstrate. Like, you have to allow them to show you and demonstrate that business value. Good example. Like, a customer I was going after a prospect I was going after in East Tennessee a couple years ago, met with them and they're like, oh, uh, we already made a decision on cameras, but we are, we are shopping for access control. And they decided another rep ended up working the account focused on this customer that I sold. So my account list changed. So anyway, here we are a year or two later and my rep is saying like, oh, man, they just went with someone else for access control and they're frustrated. Why? Because the two don't integrate and talk to each other. And so like, the value in that piece. Right. And not thinking big picture. And I get why buyers are like, there's a lot on the line. This is what I like about sales. I like trying to figure out, like, what is making, what motivates this one person that I'm talking to because they might be scared for their job, they might be risk averse. Why wouldn't you take a look at a platform that's going to solve all these various problems? For yes, it's like, oh, it's expensive. Sure. Anything looks expensive upfront. You know, I'm drinking the Kool Aid, of course. And like, I see it, I'm like, why doesn't everyone else see it? But just, yeah, how do we build that, um, credibility and trust so that they are willing to listen and to say, hey, I need you, Mr. Customer, to help me pencil this out. Like, what are you spending right now on these various areas and what's the time and what's the risk? Like, defining things that sometimes are tricky to quantify. In dollars and cents. But you've got to, like, you've got to take a look at all of that because it does add up that that prospect is really frustrated. They're like, we went with a solution that doesn't integrate at all. We're looking for something that integrates together. I'm like, yep, a couple years ago, that's what I mentioned. But I hadn't, you know, I hadn't built that trust yet. I hadn't gotten in enough with them, um, to build that credibility.

Speaker A: Yeah, I really loved what you said. So you shared a tiny bit about your passion in sales and just figuring out that puzzle. But also it's a little bit like a, like a chess game, but it's like a collaborative chess game. Right. But you're, you're really understanding, like, who is involved in this? What do they care about? Because a lot of times, and the more complex the deal is, the less people's incentives actually line up and you have to kind of like keep expanding out until you find one overarching vis that everyone can get behind. Because it's really usually what happens in that scenario. And I actually deal with this a lot in my business is small teams pick individual solutions to solve one problem that they have today.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And if you come in with this like, best of everything approach, they're like, that's super expensive and complicated. Like, I want one thing right now, and then another team picks one thing that they want right now and then another, you know, and the next thing you know, you've got 19 different tools at an organization and none of them talk to each other. No one has any source of truth. Like, no one agrees on what, you know, what, what the real information is. And then you're coming in and you have to find a way to bring all these teams together or go usually go higher in the organization to someone that has that view across the business. But then you still need to validate it with everyone that's going to use it. And, uh, I'm sure you had similar experiences where you need both that, like, leadership, above the line vision, but also talking and having everyone comfortable who actually needs to use it on a daily basis and be responsible for it.

Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of times what we're doing at Verkat is we're bringing these teams together at companies that have either never or rarely talk to each other. And there's definitely that tension, right? Like who owns who's on first and who owns what. And it is fun because I like to say, hey, you're not the, you're not the only ones going through this. Like there's so many folks going through this and as we're seeing this, we talk about this convergence of like the cyber and the physical security piece. As companies are standardizing and going cloud for so many different solutions, we're like, hey, what about physical security? That is traditionally pretty old school and antiquated and on premise. And folks that, God bless them, have like served our country and served in law enforcement roles and are very like down to earth, blue collar, like boots on the ground and we love that. And so we're like, hey, let's bring in your IT team. And the same thing it is saying, well we uh, got, let's, we got to bring in facilities, right? And so it's a matter of who owns, owns it, but also like bringing them together to see like, hey, this, this impacts all of you in such a good way. And helping these companies define like what this is going to look like moving forward is really fun. It's challenging, but it's fun.

Speaker A: You know, it's funny. It's also one of the values that we bring as, as strategic partners is being able to like my biggest customer is this massive complex holding company and they've got all these brands all around the world. And one of the main guys there was like, I'm going to call you and ask you questions about this because you understand it better than we do internally because I spend so much time like researching and talking to these different teams. And I think sometimes in sales you end up in this position where you might be meeting with SVP of supply chain. Uh, and uh, she has 35 years of experience in supply chain and you're like, what am I going to talk about in this meeting? You know, but you have, you have all of these insights and this view, this, this very global strategic view and experience, working with so many different kinds of customers and bringing that to her as an executive, all these insights that she probably doesn't because she's managing a global business and doesn't have time to like talk to a bunch of other companies that might be around her size and industry. But you do. What are some of the ways that you bring in that credibility that you have when you're working with really senior people?

Speaker B: You know, hearing you talk, I, uh, the first thing I thought of though was uh, like a genuine curiosity for who they are and what they do. Like I think it's. Yes, you're right. We really get the chance to be experts in bringing these worlds together because that's what we do. Like, that's what I'm doing day to day. She your example, like, she is living in her world, really good at it. So I like to lead with a lot of curiosity and humility about, like, I don't know your world like you do and, and gleaning from them and, and, and learning, really, first and foremost. And I think that, like, lowering those walls to say, like, I'm not here to, like, tell you what to do, I'm here to learn and then, then bring my expertise and knowledge to see if, like, that fits. And that does help. Just exploring a fit. So, yeah, I think some humility and curiosity do go a long way. Now you've obviously got to bring, you know, credibility and expertise. And I think we do that by, you know, telling stories, sharing examples of other folks that work with us, being real about the challenges that are out there. Like, I like to, you know, you lead with, uh, not lead, but kind of early on you want to bring in, like, hey, here are some of the reasons this hasn't worked or this wouldn't work. You know, can we get ahead of this? Like, is there anything here that we can get ahead of? And I don't want to waste anyone's time, so just being really curious and like, wanting to learn. And then I lean on a lot of the experts at my company as well. Like, I'm not the smartest person in the room. At least I don't like to be. And so bringing in folks that have that expertise or can, can help build something and, you know, get together with their team. Maybe it's an integration with one of their existing partners, but bringing some sort of value, right? There's gotta be something there that like, oh, hey, we've done this before. Does this resonate with you? But starting with curiosity, I think still, and like, a willingness to be humble and learn, um, I do think it's a balance, right? I do think it's such a balance because you can't just show up saying, I don't know anything. Tell me everything about you. You gotta. You gotta be an expert. And I know. I just talked to a sales trainer for a really large integrator of ours, and his perspective is like, no, you go in and, you know, you've done this and this and this for these other customers, and you're confident that you can do this for them. And so that's a great approach as well. Like, if you, you know, you start with like, hey, I. I'm pretty sure these are your problems. And we can solve them. I just tend to lead a little bit, lean in a little bit differently with a little more curiosity at first.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, I really like that, that idea of balance, specifically on the last piece you mentioned. I like that framing of you come in with the theory and sharing, hey, this is the research we did for this call. This is our assumptions, this is what we hear all the time. But then just a little bit of softness to say, like, do you actually care about that or do you not care about that? And one thing you said, Sarah, that I really liked, and I'm curious to understand how, how you personally do this, but one thing I started doing is, for example, in a discovery call, you've got these, these objections that you often hear. You can actually just ask them the objections and say, and why wouldn't you hire a bunch of people to handle this internally? And why wouldn't, why wouldn't, why couldn't you just build this yourself? And what if, what if the SVP says no when you could just ask them and, and then kind of like have them answer it? Right. Cause they'll already start thinking about that. Um, how can you fold that into your strategy? Or just that idea of you mentioned earlier around handling those objections up front.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm taking notes here because I'm like, oh, that'd be fun to throw that out a little bit earlier. Like just point blank, like, what is your SVP going to think of this? Or why wouldn't this work? I do think just being real. Right. Real with people and respecting time and wanting to figure out if it's a true, if there's true pain there, if there's true need there. And then, yeah, I don't know, I think I could probably weave some of those questions in a little bit more early on. But yeah, just being upfront about how have you. Clearly you're. You're talking to me for a reason. Like, there's. Either you've tried this before and it hasn't worked, or you haven't tried it and you're ready to try it, or there's something going on that has you to this conversation that got you here. And so let's just get to that, like, getting to the truth. I think I'm going through a coaching cohort right now. It's like more Christian focused and really getting to the truth of like, our identity and who we are and kind of cutting through all the lies that we tell ourselves or like that the world tells us. So I think with customers and prospects too, it's like, let's just get to the truth somehow. And however you do that, I like your questions. I think it's just doing it in your own way and being true to yourself, you know, to, uh, to get to that in a, in a kind. You're calling their baby ugly sometimes too, and sometimes you have to do that as well. I think if you've earned that respect, like, they're going to respect you for calling out some of those things that could be better. But treating others as you want to be treated, I think is like the main kind of crux of however you're going to approach it. If you're going to challenge them or you're going to get right to those objections, just doing it in a kind way that allows them to like, open up and want to share. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, so I really like that. I especially the idea of finding truth. I, I naturally, I really don't do a good job of the, of the simplicity and the directness. Right. Like, I want to ask five. Like, let's say, uh, what I really want to know is, are you willing to pay for this? Right? Like, is, are you willing to pay X? But I won't ask that. I will ask, like, do you see the value? Like, do you see this being help. Helpful question mark. You know, do you see this? Do you, do you like this functionality? Like, I'll ask every question around it. And we have this managing director and he's, he's really, really good at just like, he's like, yeah, you like it? Is it worth investing this? And, and he'll just ask. And he does it in such a great, like, kind, friendly way. But it's, it's so simple, you know, And I, I'm really. The, the farther I get in my career, the more, the more I try to get to that simplicity.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm, I'm not as good as at that directness either. I think I was thinking about when you're talking, I'm, um. Like, usually I'm like, is there a budget? Right? You're trying to get to the budget. It's like, what's the budget? Or is there a budget versus, like, what would you. What's realistic for you to pay? Or like, when someone's negotiating with you, we can't do that. What is this worth to you? Like, what would you, what's the dollar amount? Like, what would you pay for it? I also wrote down like, getting to the. No. And, uh, so, you know, I had a guy that we worked with who used to say, you know, you're asking those questions. It sounds like you've given up on. Or it sounds like this is priced out of your budget or like, sounds like you've given up and just getting to that. Getting to that no. Or getting a no from them to where they're like, no, no, no, no. That's not it. Right. And so there's different. Different ways to get there. I think it's timing. I think it's timing too. So maybe you and I were not asking that as much early on, which maybe our sales leaders are like, let's figure out the bant. Right? Let's. Is there budget? But I think at the right time, I do think you can be direct and say, like, I'm more. I'm about to close a deal now where months ago, I'm like, here it is. Like, does this even fit? Are we in the ballpark? Is this even possible? Right? And so just being direct and upfront, like, can you even spend this money? How much money can you spend without further approval? You know, those kind of things. Like, I think at the right time, it's. I'm comfortable asking, but not as. Maybe not as soon as I should.

Speaker A: You're absolutely right. I don't know if it's. Even if you need to do it sooner. Like, I think there's also. I mean, you don't want to really be talking like this on the first call because you haven't built that trust yet. Right. Like, you have to. Uh. And I know there's. There's the boxes in the Salesforce, right. We're supposed to have the discovery call and, um, by the end of it, we've got budget approval, but it just doesn't work like that. You know, it doesn't necessarily. Sometimes it does be great if it does, but usually, yeah, you gotta, like, tease it out a little bit. Where I. And this is. This is one thing I'm really trying to. To just work on and hone my craft is being more upfront and simple because I will kind of take like the non. The non direct path. And direct to me doesn't always have to be like, what are you going to pay for it? It can be like. But just calling the VP and instead of having it in Salesforce forecasted for June because everything's moving along. It's like, I loved what you said around getting to the know. We talk around getting to the know a lot. For me, where that's showing up is, yeah. Actually having a meeting to say, hey, we are planning to kick this off in June. On this day, we've got resources planned, and this is the investment. Are we all in alignment? Right. That we are in the right ballpark of. Of investment figure and that we're planning on kicking? Because I've had so many times, Sarah, when I'm like, I'm saying the deal is going to close in June because things are moving forward really quickly. And then all of a sudden, a couple weeks or months out, they're like, oh, we weren't even planning on doing this till the fall or till the end of the year. And I'm totally off, uh, because that. That needs to be called out.

Speaker B: More specifically, the mutual action plan piece, I'm also, like, I'm, uh, evaluating myself as a salesperson as we talk, because I think there's a couple of things. Like, there's knowing problems, like knowing what to do, and then there's, like, execution, the doing. And I think a lot of times, like, I know, okay, I need to put a mutual action plan in place, and I need to pressure test this and I need to vet it. And so. But it's hard with all the stuff I'm juggling to, like, actually execute on all the deals. And then there's the, like, maybe people that don't. Don't know, like, hey, this is like, from a sales perspective, they're newer or they haven't. That they need to do this. So from an, uh, education perspective, like, yes, like, there should be. I think we should be vetting it, asking the tough questions, getting to the know, figuring out that process after the signature, like, what does that look like? Because let's back our way into the signature. Let's get a mutual action plan. And in our case at Verkata, it's like, us, the customer and the partner oftentimes, so we have to be working. So it's almost three parties saying, hey, do we agree that this is the date we want to do this? And so just continuing to pressure test with that. Or, you know, there's different ways, different words for the mutual action plan. But really, really, it's important. Like, and if it's not. If you're not doing it, it's either that you don't know you should do it, or, like me, some of my deals, it's like, we're moving so fast, I assume, right? I'm like, we're good. I know what's going on. Um, um. And I like to do a lot of calls. People, People kind of dog the, like, don't just call to check in. I'M not saying to call to check in, but I'm saying, like, I think it's okay to call and say, like, are we still on track for this date? I want to make sure for these reasons, like, I think that's very important to do. And I like to do it on a phone call. Yes. Put it in writing as well. But so all of those pieces, like, we all know we should be. And vetting it and pressure testing it. Right? And like, where is the. Is there a project name for this? Where is the money coming from? M. Um. Hey, what happens? Who else has to be involved? Right? All of those things that sometimes I think we take for granted and move really fast. I don't know if it's the happy years or just we have so much going on. There's different reasons. So give yourselves grace. Like, I have to give myself grace. But at the same time, it's like there's a. There's a formula to. To get it done and to have some sanity. And maybe it is the answer that you don't want to hear, which is, oh, yeah, we're not doing this till September of next year. Like, sorry, we're. We're submitting for this year's budget, but we may not use it until December. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, you just said so many great things. I think the. I am finding it's almost. You have to learn in all those procedures, and then you kind of have to like, forget the procedures, right. And. And. And play.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do a little jazz improvisation. But you can't get away from them completely. And I think that that is, you know, just. Just having. Cause sometimes I think I can just like, totally just. Just freewheel it. Right? Just. Just wing it. You know, I've been doing this for so long, I know what we need, and, man, I. I think I can completely wing it. Because you still need, like, you know, and people use the example, especially in sales, about, about pilots flying and landing and taking off. They always, every single time they use checklists, right? It's like, did we check this? Did we check this? Did we check this? And it doesn't matter if they've flown thousands, tens of thousands of flights, they still go through that checklist. And I think some of us struggle. I mean, we tend to be in sales, pretty dynamic people. And it's boring, right? It's boring doing the same thing 10,000 times. So we want to, like, mix it up. Right? But that is what will save your deals and save your quarters is like actually following the. Do we have a mutual action Plan? Have we confirmed what the budget is? Have we spoken to the person that's going to write the check? Have we, you know, do we have an agreement that if we do this in the proof of concept, then they will move forward and all of that?

Speaker B: I think, uh, my last company call box, I learned it's where I like, sorry, making noises over here, where I cut my teeth in sales really formally. Like I had salesy roles before. I was in admissions, recruiting students, I was in fundraising and I was in career services where I was like recruiting employers. So everything had a sales component. But true sales was my last company, CallBox. And I learned so, so much. But what I've like really had to hone in on at Verkada, at a pre IPO startup is forecasting. Like we have to be really good at forecasting. And in sales, as you were talking, I'm thinking there's the art and the science. Like I'm like, I'm like, oh, I love the art of this. I love the people. I love like figuring it out. And there's this science component that's like a, it's a numbers game. So like a, you gotta get, you know, so many touches and so much in the pipeline. And it's math, it's a math equation. And then there's the art piece which I tend to lean into and I like that. So there is the art and the science and, and you're right, like it really, you gotta hone in on, on really the part maybe that you're not like. I've got some colleagues that are probably really good at the like numbers and the prospecting and then they're developing more of like the soft skills piece where I feel like I've got the relationship side of it. I've just gotta get some of that science part down. Um, but forecasting is so important and that's why for me, um, I have to be better about like the mutual action plan and understanding the timeline. And again we have the component of the partner. So when the deal gets signed through the partner, then it's coming over to us. We have to understand that process, like the partner's process as well. And we've got tons of great partners. So it's, it's fun, but it's is the chess match as well, like internally. But the art and science of it is I guess what makes us, I think what makes sales like pretty unique compared to other careers.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm so with you. I absolutely love this profession and I, I didn't love it For a really long time. I actually hated sales for multiple years in my career and I, yeah, I, I do love that but now it's like, it's so dynamic. I love that, that art, that science and yeah, a lot of times I think for really successful people, like it can look from, from an external, can look like a hot mess sometimes. You know, it's like you've got like post it notes everywhere and you're like on a call, packing for a flight. You know, you're on your way to the airport, dialed into your forecast meeting, you're flying to the customer site and, and that's all so fun and exciting and I think a lot of us, I'll speak for myself. Like I really thrive in those dynamic situations and it really works out most of the time. I really need to work on that organization. That's like my, my big area that I, that I need to focus on.

Speaker B: What didn't you, I'm curious, like you said you didn't enjoy it for a while. Is there something at the beginning that you didn't enjoy about it?

Speaker A: Yeah, I actually wanted to go to your, I wanted to go to your experience at Call Box and, and not talk so much about myself. Right. That's not the point. But yeah, I mean I, I was in sales for four years. No one ever taught me how to sell. I just had this idea of like maybe from movies or wherever. I kind of had this idea that in, in sales you were supposed to just show up and talk about your product and eventually someone will just say, this product's so great, here's some money, you know. And yeah, I had no idea about just like what we were supposed to be doing. I was cold calling. I absolutely hated cold calling.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: I spent one year where I was at one account. I was basically going up and visiting them every week. And I had a million dollar deal in the, in the. And, and my boss was like, that's great. Like keep getting on site with your customer. And I was like, we're going to win this deal. And yeah, we get to the end of the year and everyone was like, okay, like when's that deal coming in that you've been talking about for nine months? And I, I like talked to the main person and he was like, I don't, I don't make the decision. Like I don't have any budget to spend. And it's like, well that's my whole year gone. You know, I've been spending all my time here, so I've, I've Made, like, all the mistakes. Sarah, I. But I landed at a company that sounded very similar to your call box experience, where I was suddenly immersed in a sales culture where everyone was focused every day on getting better. And we were like a bunch of ath. The locker room, it was like we had gone. We were looking at game tape. We were like, hey, check out this way that Jessica asked this budget question. It was amazing. And we were sharing, like, snippets and quotes and like, that's where I really. I mean, I remember the first time I landed, like, a real big sale and it changed my life. It absolutely changed my life to just see, like, all these things actually come together and to. To land a significant deal for the first time ever and to be like, holy shit, it worked, you know? And, um, that. That was amazing. Yeah. I. I want to hear about your experience at that culture.

Speaker B: Yeah. My first sales story is actually like, not even when I was formally in sales yet, but I'll say the time at Elon. So I graduated from Elon and then I worked at the university for nine years. So admissions, athletics, the business school, students, and then career services. And so admissions, recruiting students. Um, again, a sales type of role and then fundraising in athletics, sales role. When I worked with students, a little less of a sales role. More like student engagement, study abroad, things like that. But then corporate and employer relations, same thing. Like, I was selling the employers to come to hire our students. So I sometimes don't give myself enough credit for, like, I was really doing sales for a while before I was doing sales. So I get to call box. Total God thing. I meet the COO Patrick at. While I was working at Elon. He was one of the employers I was trying to get to hire our students at Elon. So total God thing. I just feel called. I go to Dallas and work for this company, call box. And it's funny, just yesterday Mother's Day, I ran into Reed, who was our CEO at the time, who, uh, who hired me. He and his family are here. So. So good to see him. But, like, I get to their company and they were like, we don't know what you're going to do. We just want you on the team. So I have no idea. I'm just like, I don't even know what we sell. Like, what we do is call tracking, like analytics for. Mostly in the automotive space for car dealers. But my favorite story is, like, Patrick goes. I'm like two months in, and I was just kind of learning the product and I was like a consultant. We Called him associate consultant. So I was just helping customers and training customers and learning the product. And he goes, I need you to go save this customer. So I fly to North Carolina and meet with this, like, really intimidating general manager who owns two stores. And I don't. I'm, um, two months in. Like, I don't know what the heck we do. And I just. It was exhilarating because I had to, like, build a rapport with this guy who didn't know me. Like, I just fly there. I show up, I put on a dress, which, by the way, like, way overdressed. I mean, Steve, the general manager, owner, principal, was like, for sure, like, always in a suit. But, like, our company is. I went from, like, employer relations, like, in suits, to, like, jeans, like, software company. And I'm in, like, this black dress, like, way overdressed for a car dealership, you know? But I show up, and I'm, like, just acting confident and, like, all right, let's go. And humble and curious, and I just start helping them solve problems, and we save the account, and I'm just like, oh, my gosh. Like, I feel so valuable. I feel so good. It was, like, exhilarating. I love new people. Like, not afraid of that. And then fast forward. I started actually managing our consultants for about a year. And then after about a year there, I think Nathan, who was our VP of sales, and Patrick and Reed, like, our COO and CEO, basically were like, let's just move you into sales. And I was like. Like, I was scared. Like, you, like, I'm like, what do I do? Like, quota? Oh, my gosh. Are you kidding me? I was, like, terrified. I was like, all right, let's do it. Cause I didn't really know what I was doing as a manager of consultants. Like, it was very ambiguous. Like, I was like, good job. How many calls did you make? Like, it was stuff. I just wasn't sure, um, how to kind of manage really well. Because, again, ambiguous with sales. It's very clear to me. Like, okay, you know, like, these are. It's intuitive to me. It's like, these are the. A, are you bringing in revenue and hitting your goals? But B, are you. Like, these are the tasks that need to be happening in order to achieve. Uh, like, it just. Everything was more clear to me on the sales side. And so I got into it, and I was like, why didn't I start doing this earlier? Like, I said at the beginning of our call, like, man, if I could go back, I would totally do some sales classes at university. And think. And maybe it's better that I didn't. Right. Because I was kind of coming in fresh and not really. Not really feeling like I knew the formula, but having to figure it out and. But, man, it was just such a great culture. Like, you talked about of, like, you're. And it was the office culture back then. Like, people were in the office. And at that time, I may have been like, 30 years old, 29. 30. And I was like, one of the older people. And so it was just young and vibrant. And you have these, like, 23 to 25 year olds who are, like, selling and making good money. And we're all having fun, we're all learning. And it just felt so collegial. It felt like a family. Um, I was the 50th employee, approximately, and then it grew to about 200. So very different. Right. Verkada's got over 2,000, um, folks, probably close to a thousand sellers, um, or on the sales side. Yeah. So I just loved it. We. I learned so much. To this day, I'll talk to our SDRs, our EDRs, and I'll say, like, dude, I was like, cold. I don't mind cold calling. Here's some of the things we learned at Call Box. And it wasn't. It also wasn't super formal. It was a lot of like. Like, our CRM was homegrown. And we're just like, all right, let's figure it out. Like, we. It wasn't even a CRM for sales. You know, we can tease Reid about that. Cause, like, he built everything that, you know, a lot of the things that we use. And it worked for us. We didn't have a lot of meetings, which I really appreciated. Like, there wasn't, like, meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting. A lot of it. You know, there was just communication happening in our CRM and. And then in person and, you know, walk to someone's desk. So I just really appreciate those days. It felt like a family and where I just really enjoyed, you know, learning about sales and getting into it for the first time, like, officially having a quota.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's excellent. I think that this is something I see often, and I have the privilege of talking with many successful salespeople. It seems like everyone has that one chapter where everything turns around, and usually it's because of the environment that they're in, that the culture they're in, the people that they're surrounded with. And it's some kind of, like, culture of excellence where everyone is trying to just get better every day. And share it. And, and especially I, I think back to the company. It's funny, as you were describing that I was like picturing what. Where I worked, uh, that was like my experience, my version of that. And it, it tracks exactly. It was a very, very similar culture. And just to be. Yeah, just to be around so many passionate people that were trying to get better. And it was really, really a special

Speaker B: experience, I will say, like, to give Verkada a shout out as well. Like, a lot different, a lot larger. But the resources and support that we have as sales individuals and teams, like, sometimes it's too much. Right. Like, it's like so many different resources and tools to use. But I am grateful because I've been like, at Call Box, it was a little more organic. We had some things. We would read a lot of books together. Like Jeb Lount. Like, I think it was Jeb wrote Fanatical Prospecting. And so thinking about, like earlier when you were. And I talking about, you know, naming the pain, like he has something called the power statement, where, like, that has stuck with me to this day, where it's like, hey, we do this. But here's like, here's one line about what we do, but here are the main things. Pain points. We solve for these other customers like you. Does this resonate? If so, uh, you know, and so that framework was really helpful. But at Verkada, the tools, there's so many tools. And so it's almost like there's no excuse, right? There's no excuse not to be successful because we have the resources. It's just a matter of getting organized and prioritizing, I think what, you know, what accounts to go after, how much time to spend, where to spend more time on those mutual action plans, where to spend more time maybe prospecting and using Gemini or another AI tool. We just have such a great enablement team. So I'm grateful for that as well. We just have all these resources. And I think back to Call Box, and it's like we were still getting it done and it was gritty and we just didn't have the same amount of resources. But now that I have the resources, it's just a different kind of, uh, figuring out how to use them.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's, that's excellent. I. I've been at places. I remember IBM I and Salesforce and Excel. That was it. We, like you would think that we would be. Have all kind of sophisticated sales equipment, but we actually had nothing. And it was very, very scrappy and Then, yeah, I've been at places where it's like, you've got the whole. It's like you feel like you're in like a spaceship. You know, there's like 30 different sales tools. You've got recorders, you know, and like, all this stuff. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, all that matters is are you. Are you in a culture of people that want to win? And I think that's one of the greatest. And it doesn't have to be, like, super cutthroat. Right. We're all just. We're here at 6:00am um, you know, just dialing and until we. Until we chase dollars. But at least some kind of culture where people see themselves moving forward and see some kind of, like, vision and momentum in their career. I think that that's so, so important to have to at least, like, inspire people and drive them forward and give them a work purpose. Not that our purpose in life has to be work, but give them a work purpose, a work vision.

Speaker B: And I. I want to say to people, like, I'm thinking back to, you know, I didn't I say it was a God moment because it truly was. Like, I was taking a risk. Patrick at that time when I worked at Elon, said, what's the biggest risk you've taken? And I remember saying it would be to move to Dallas and come work for you guys, you know? And I thought in my head, man, I haven't taken that many risks. And so that was like, the first. Like, okay, this is a risk. Let's go. I don't know anyone. I don't know anything. And then going to Ver Kata, it was more of like a holy cow. Like, they hire the best of the best. Is that me? I don't know if that's me. Like, a little insecurity. But I was like, screw it. I want to be someone that I want to. I want the potential to make seven figures. Like, I said it to myself, I was like, there's people out there making seven figures, and I just want to see if I can do it. And I was like, I'm going to bet on myself. And I. I did so many back channel kind of like, interviews before. I, like, as they were interviewing me, right. I talked to the person who had my job before that wasn't there anymore. I talked to five other people who were on the team. I talked to other managers. I think I even may have talked to competitors. Like, I wanted to just so be sure. And I was like, you know, at the end of the day, like this is going to be hard, but I just want to have a chance. Right. And so I would say to anyone, like that's thinking like they can't go to that company or that's too hard or they can't do that. But like, just bet on yourself and go and try it, you know, and like put yourself on the seat. Because Verkada has an amazing product market fit, an insane addressable market. Right. Like those are the things that are exciting to me. A culture of winning, a culture of growth. They're investing in the sales organization. Yes, it's hard. Like there's a lot of hard pieces to it for sure. And there's the navigating the partners in the channel, but that's also an advantage. So I just think betting on yourself and going and doing the hard thing, like, like if it doesn't pan out that you're going to stay there that long, that's okay. Like you tried and you learned something about yourself. And I'm just so glad I did. I never would have had the opportunity. CallBox was great. I just wouldn't have had the opportunity if I stayed to go after some of these bigger deals just to, you know, see if I could do it. And I did. And so not to say like, you know, everyone's going to have hit an eight figure deal or anything like that, but you just, you just want the chance, right? Like I think you want the chance to, to be on the team where that can happen.

Speaker A: Yeah, there, uh, you have it folks. Go work at Kata. That's the answer.

Speaker B: Or, or somewhere else you've been dreaming of. But yeah, yes, come, come work at Verkada. We are.

Speaker A: No, I, I think that's, uh, I think that's a really inspiring. Because this is the thing with sales is it's, it's about what you produce. And I know, I mean, look, everyone listening is, is probably an account executive right now at a, at some kind of B2B technology company that's by far and away the majority of our listeners. But yeah, we all maybe at some point have had this idea of like this kind of like, you know, douchey kind of salesperson and you're like, I don't want to be like that. The best salespeople are not like that, you know, and sales offers you this, this opportunity where if you can come in and focus on client outcomes and focus on transforming your company and focus on delivering things that actually fundamentally change not just the business you work for, but the people that you work with you will be. You have outsized reward for that. And sales is an incredible profession. I mean, you have people making seven figures that you don't even have to graduate high school. Like, what profession can you earn seven figures without. Without some kind of advanced degree. Sales is one of the only ones or, or like artist or musician or something. But sales is. It gives you uncapped opportunity. And it also. Here's the other beautiful thing about sales is it. It's. In many ways, it's a great equalizer. Because it doesn't matter if you came from Harvard.

Speaker B: Huh?

Speaker A: Business school. You can't sell, you're not going to get paid. Right. There's no, like, bonus program. Yeah, there's no, like, bonus program because of where you came from. It is. What. What. What are you producing right now? And anyone can thrive. And I think that that's just such a beautiful thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think you saying anyone can thrive, like, be true to yourself, too. Like, I find myself a lot of times saying I need to be more like her or him. Or they do this really well, which is great to learn from your colleagues and your peers. But also, uh, I think authenticity, that's one of my values. Like, just being authentic to who you are. And I think as you engage people to. We say we're salespeople, but, like, we're coaches, we're educators. Honestly, I feel like I'm a travel agent. Like, all I do is schedule calls on calendars, right? I'm like, I'm scheduling a call for seven people. When does it all. When can we get on a call? Like, that's half my job sometimes. But seriously, we're doing so many different things. And also, you're. You're internally having to navigate your company as well. Okay, how do I get this done internally to help me sell this. This customer, or engage this customer. So just being true to yourself throughout the process, I think is really, really important. And, like, people see that in you, and so. And then you're going to be more fulfilled and happier, I think, as you sell, you know, not trying to, like, fit a round peg in a square hole or vice versa. So just be true to yourself, too. And I worked with a guy named Corey who, uh, he's gonna be like, why are you picking on me? But he just, We. We joke that he was so comfortable with silence. He was just more of an introvert or he just was less of a. He would sit there on these calls and there would be a lot of silence. And so, like, you look at Corey and You'd never be like, he's like a douchey sales guy at all. You're like, does this guy know what he's talking? Like he hasn't said much, you know, and he's just really quiet. And so there's just space of space, uh, for everyone and just space for you to be you.

Speaker A: Yeah, Sarah, I think that's beautiful thing I think about a lot is just playing to your strengths. Because there are people that, I mean there's just so many kind. There's so many different kinds of highly successful sales people or people in the sales profession. And there are people that you just drop them in any situation and they're like, oh, uh, San Diego. You know, I used to go to the, the baseball game. Like, do you ever go to Frank's Hot Dogs down on, on whatever street? Like there, there are people that, they're just so gregarious and like that's their strength. Right? And there are people that are very methodical and scientific and they're quiet, but they have like this very, mhm. You know, there's other people that are extremely, you know, they just have like such a high work ethic and hustle mentality that like they get it done that way. And I remember at an old company, I had a, I, um, was working really close with a BDR and he was supposed to make 60 cold calls a day and book two meetings. He was like, I want to double my numbers, so I'm just going to make 120 calls a day. Done. You know, I was like, you know, it was like that was just his plan and he did phenomenally well. He was like the fastest person to ever get promoted to ae, um, at that company and. But everyone's got strengths and you know, you play to your strengths and then, and then you also like celebrate, celebrate who you are.

Speaker B: Yeah. And if there's another job you want, let's say you are an sdr, EDR or you're an account exec and you want, then you want to be an L1 manager or leader, start doing those things now. Don't ask for permission. Like start taking on those types of roles and activities and like, you know, if you're an sdr, edr, making calls for someone like me or someone like Matthew, like ask if you can do the demo, take one on, start prospecting as if like you're the account owner. And same thing as like being an account executive. Take on more, you know, do more mentoring, do more leading. So I think if there's a job you want too to progress to like lean in and start either shadowing and then start diving in and like start doing those activities. Like, I don't think there's. That's the beauty of sales too. I think there's like a blurred line there in a good way that there's. You can be creative with what you work on and what you get into and what you show and showcase. Right. There's not as much. Sometimes there's a hierarchy, but it's like, no. I mean, oftentimes people are not gonna, you know, discourage you from if you wanna do more. Right. Like, we're not gonna be like, simmer down, you know, unless there's a performance problem, unless there's a gap in your awareness and like, maybe you're not ready for that or that's maybe not going to be a good fit for you moving forward. Hopefully people around you will tell you the truth. You always want to be around people that are going to give you that kind of tough love. But yeah, step into it and like, don't be afraid to do, you know, do the things for the job that you want next.

Speaker A: I would say, yeah, such a good point. And if you have Gong, or software similar to Gong, shout out to Gong, come sponsor the show. I'm kidding. If you have a software like Gong, you can actually take the biggest deal that your company's closed and go back and look at every single call that was part of that deal and go back a year and a half and watch every single one. Yeah, it probably won't take more than a couple weeks to get through all of them. If you watched one video a day, uh, sorry, one call a day while you were having lunch and just followed that whole deal end to end. You can even see all the emails that were sent all of the back and forth and just see like, what, what does a great sales cycle look like at our business? And that is, you know, and people. And um, it's a big time investment. But people go to night classes to forward their career watching calls. And going from your top salesperson is like one of the greatest ways to get true to see what good looks like.

Speaker B: True. It's, it's uh, people after our big deal, like, like people have reached out. Actually someone just reached out today, this morning, not kidding, saying, hey, my partner's going after a similar customer and he asked me like 17 different questions and. But we have those resources too. It's funny. People are like, oh, I was checking out your. You built so many different quotes in Salesforce and, like, people are looking at my emails, and because you. We have. You know, we have visibility in that. I'm like, oh, gosh, oh, gosh, oh, gosh, oh, gosh. But again, it's like, I always tell people, like, they're like, what was your secret? Or send me the deck that you used. And I'm like, it's not that simple. Like, it's just. There's. It's so complex, but there. There are resources out there, like you said, to go listen, to go hear. I sat in on a bunch of calls when I first started, and I really, honestly want to do it again. A little stale in my demo, too, but sit on calls of other reps or. Or reps that are succeeding really well. But it's all out there. It's a little vulnerable. All the information is out there. I'm like, okay, don't do exactly as I did. But you can see how we did it, so.

Speaker A: I know. I. So I'm really glad you said that. I also feel so exposed. There was one. We. We landed this. This Swiss company that actually started with a meeting that came from a cold call. And it was, like, the most unremarkable cold call I've ever made. I basically was, like, calling a bunch of, you know, calling a bunch of people down a list. Someone told me to, like, get lost. He said, stop wasting people's time. Hung up on me. And then I made one more call, and it was this guy that was like, hey, I'm, um. I'm getting on a flight. Like, what is this about? And I was like, you know, quick pitch. And he was like, yeah, sounds pretty interesting. And I was like, I'll be in Vienna in two weeks. And he's like, yeah, come by the office. And then, like, from that meeting, we, like, ultimately booked this deal. And everyone was like, oh, yeah, Matthew got this great meeting. The cold call was like, hey, do you want to meet? You know, he's like, yeah, I'm available. You know, it's, like, so unremarkable, you know? And, uh. But, yeah, like, sometimes these things get this, like, internal, you know, aura around them of, like, oh, uh, that big. That big cold call that landed this deal. And it's like, sometimes it's such unremarkable stuff, you know, I'm like, you don't

Speaker B: want to see the deck. We didn't even get through the whole deck. We met with them once in person to go over the deck. We didn't even get through it. Like, that's not what won this you know, like you don't even trust me. You don't want to see it like it's not that impressive. But the catching the guy getting on the plane makes me think like I tend to be a more informal, I lean like informal because I, you want to catch people where they are too. So I'm a big fan of texting. I'm a big fan of like when we were closing that big deal they had teams. We were, we used zoom. So I made sure I got a um log into teams like through my, through Verkata they were able to get me one because that's where those guys are living and breathing and so I could communicate with them a lot better that way. It might be slack. We slack with a bunch of our partners as well in channels with us. So figuring out where they live which means maybe it's their cell phone, maybe it's a phone call, maybe it's a text, maybe it's a voice note, maybe yes it's LinkedIn but maybe it's a video message on LinkedIn. So just figuring out your where they actually sometimes it is early morning or not late night but like maybe it's 5:30 or 6:00 clock and they're getting on a flight and that's when you catch em. So yeah just being open to catching people where they are I think is important too and trying different, trying different ways to get through to people.

Speaker A: I, I really like that, I like that that message around also keeping it informal and picking up the phone. Nothing moves business forward like a phone call. And um, y I, I even the other day I just kind of enjoyed started getting incredibly beautiful where I am and I just wanted to be outside and I was out on a walk and I was actually thinking about a deal and I was like, you know, I should just call that guy. I just made a phone call. I was like in the park there are probably like birds chirping and kids around but I was like hey, um, I'm, I'm traveling today. I'm, I'm, I'm out and about. Um, um but I wanted to talk about this really quickly and we had a really great like 10 minute phone call and was it moved a bunch of things forward that would have taken so many emails and days if we had like stayed in this, you know. Yeah, stayed in email.

Speaker B: I think if you, you're real, you're you, you're human. Like people respond well to that and respect that. You know I like to when I'm hopping on a flight sometimes it's like, yeah, I only have 10 minutes and this is the only chance I'm gonna get to call this person in a couple days. Like, I'll call and. And then I'm like, hey, I gotta get on a. Like, I'm the one that called them, you know, and it's like, I gotta go, bro. And they're like, you called me. But, um, I think because you're also. I'm like, hey, I can't keep you. I have to hop on a plane. And so that's almost disarming too. They're like, okay, cool. She's not gonna try to sell me for 30 minutes, but hey, I've only got five minutes, you know, so it works sometimes. It works sometimes. Sometimes people could get upset, you know, it's like, that's the name of our game, right?

Speaker A: It's the name of our game. Sarah, I really want to keep talking for a lot longer, um, but we gotta let you go. I know you have a lot of things to get back to. Thank you for spending your time with us. It was really, really a pleasure.

Speaker B: You're so welcome. Like I said, I was a little, little nervous because I don't feel like I have it all figured out, but excited to talk about sales and what we do and just encourage people. And if anyone wants to reach out for any reason, please do via LinkedIn, email, whatever, whatever you can find. Whatever you can find of mine. Phone number, well, we'll put it all

Speaker A: in the show notes so they'll find it pretty easily. But not your phone number that, that they have to look for.

Speaker B: Sounds good. Appreciate it, Matthew.

Speaker A: Sarah, thank you so much. Is there anything that you want to leave the audience with?

Speaker B: I think we, I think we covered the main points. I like to just encourage people to be themselves and have fun and do. Do hard things, like step into hard things that you might not think you can do or know to know how to do. A lot of advice I've been giving in my life and my career is like, oh, I don't know that I'm qualified for that. And it's like no one really knows exactly what they're doing and their role completely, right? Until you get into it. And even then you're still learning. So just take some risks. Don't be afraid to try hard things and just be yourself in the process.

Speaker A: It's beautiful. Sarah, thank you so much for your time and everyone, thanks for listening. We'll see you on the next one.