Keeping an authentic voice when AI can't read the room

Speaker A: We have a philosophy called the fifth meatball at Aperium. The idea is you are empowered to bring the fifth meatball. Your menu has four meatballs as part of the serving and there is five guests. You don't need to ask, you don't need to overthink it. You need to bring them the little pleasures. Bring the fifth meatball and like, read the room and get ahead of some of these things. That is truly the art of hospitality.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Hotel Moment podcast presented by Revinate. I'm Karen Stevens, Chief Marketing Officer joining you from sunny San Francisco, California.

Speaker C: And I'm Dylan Cole, Managing Director of Revinate Europe, calling in from Amsterdam.

Speaker B: This is the podcast where we explore how technology shapes every moment of the hotelier's experience and more importantly, how the right technology delivers real outcomes for hotel teams and guests alike.

Speaker C: From revenue strategy and guest communication to operations and marketing, we sit down with the people transforming hospitality around the world.

Speaker B: Depending on the conversation, sometimes it'll just be me behind the mic and sometimes

Speaker C: it'll be me bringing a European perspective and stories from across the global hospitality industry.

Speaker B: Whether you're a hotelier, a tech enthusiast, or just curious about where hospitality is

Speaker C: headed, you're in the right place. Let's get into it.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Hotel Moment podcast. I am your host, Karen Stevens, the Chief Marketing officer of Revinate. And today we're excited to welcome Dina Needkamp, SVP brand and marketing at Aparium Hotel. Group of the most respected names in lifestyle hospitality, Aparium has built a reputation for creating hotels that feel deeply connected to their neighborhoods. Combining design, community driven experiences, strong food and beverage and intentional storytelling. Under Deana's leadership, Aparium continues to redefine what hospitality lifestyle can look like for both guests and owners. Today we'll explore the future of experience led hospitality, why emotional connection is becoming the new luxury, and how Aperium approaches storytelling and guest experience. So without further ado, Dena, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker A: Hi Karen. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: Well, it is a pleasure to have you. So Aperium is a longtime customer of Revinate and I would love to start just giving our audience a little bit of an overview of the group itself. I know that we've got a lot of cool hotels, we've had some awards. So can you just give us kind of the 10,000 foot view of Aperium Hotel Group?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. We are a lifestyle brand. We recently introduced sort of two tiers. We have Aperium collection. We our original one of one custom, imagined, designed and programmed hotels throughout the US and we also just introduced Aparium 4, which is our answer to a growing lifestyle industry where large brands have acquired many lifestyle products and many management companies don't know the original meaning and ethos of lifestyle. And we're bringing that solution to both parties.

Speaker B: So how many hotels are in Aparium Hotel Group?

Speaker A: So currently operating today, we have eight hotels and we are working on about four to five really amazing projects coming down in the pipeline.

Speaker B: So it's a truly curated boutique hotel experience in really cool locations. So I want to jump right in because I have a ton of questions. So as you kind of alluded to, Aperium has been known for building hotels that feel deeply personal and culturally connected to the cities that they're in. So I want to know what originally drew you into hospitality and what made you passionate about lifestyle and experience driven hotels?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I'm actually second generation hospitality. My father spent his entire career in hotel engineering. So I grew up around the industry and I definitely did not set out thinking that I'd end up in it. You know, went to school for business, marketing, communication, psychology and I really wanted to go into advertising, but job market and circumstance had other plans. I had a friend and a roommate who referred me to the Four Seasons Chicago and honestly I had no idea what I was stepping into. I found a world class environment, I found mentors that taught me fundamentals and it's just still how I do business today. So that's really set the tone for how I've maneuvered through hospitality and just sort of have a mantra of collecting the lessons, collecting the memories and the connections and letting go of the rest.

Speaker B: Well, it's funny because I talk to a lot of folks who start their careers in hospitality and really never leave. I think once we get into this business, we love it. So we might move between brands and different job roles. But I haven't ever met somebody who was kind of born into it, as you said. So that's interesting. You got pulled into it either way.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: So Aperian talks a lot about creating places people love rather than simply places people stay. So when you look at hospitality today, do you think that guests are searching for something emotionally different than they did 10 years ago? How has that shifted you? In fact, you mentioned kind of at the beginning that the brand's always trying to get in on that secret sauce. So how do you think the buyers or the travelers have changed?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's such a good question. I think that in certain levels of hospitality there was always this expectation of it's so much more than the stay, it's about the experience. But I think it caught the rest of the industry off guard, this whole thought of experience and um, lifestyle programming and other reasons to stay besides needing a hotel room. So I think early adopters were the luxury market where it was so much more than the investment in the room. It was knowing your family, knowing your special events, celebrating with you. And then I think more recently you had Airbnb and VRBO and different ways to book that really shook the hospitality industry. So I think that there's ah, a real and lasting appetites for hotel hotels specifically just more than a place to sleep or a bar or a restaurant to go to, but that genuine service paired with memorable experiences. That's certainly what we've seen it adapt into over the last 10 years. And the best brands are doing that really well and going with the flow and figuring out there is a way to build it in and it doesn't need to be nickel and diming. But I think there was early adopters and then I think we were kind of shook as an industry. And what's really cool about what Aperium was founded on was always so much more than a bar, so much more than a hotel. It's an experience. And so I think various levels of hospitality have catch on.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's. It's funny when you think about how much we used to think about Airbnb and you know, is everything going to shift? Is everybody going to be doing Airbnb instead of hotels? And I think you hit it on the head when people start to identify that a hotel is more than just a room, that it's everything around it. So you alluded to it there. But as a marketer, how do you bottle that up and make sure that uh, the guests that are coming to your hotel understand what they're getting? And how do you kind of market that experience online?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's so good. I mean for me, my personal philosophy and our brand philosophy is storytelling. Those of us in lifestyle are really lucky to be content driven brands. And it's about the story first. And so really one example is what we did this year is our sort of portfolio wide North Star, um, it's called as told by and it's really highlight the voices and the experiences that have built each of our individual properties. So these are key collaborators in each city. They're not our colleagues, they're people with their own small businesses, partners, collaborators, purveyors, and they're showing through their lens sort of what's important to them in that city and how our hotels tie into that. So when you think about plusing up on just amenities, rooms and location, that emotional connection and resonance is where we're leaning in, because we're so lucky to know some of the coolest people and partners. And that's what people are seeking when they travel. And so just giving them a platform, a voice, kind of turning all of our marketing channels on, highlighting them, and then flipping back to our seasonal sales and what we need to do for the business has been our sort of guide this year, and I see it for many years to come. Just leaning into the storytelling side of who we are. That's something that AI and other tools can't give you real human connection. And so that's where we're putting the spotlight.

Speaker B: That's right. And I think it's really interesting that you go outside of the hotel itself to kind of get people that are culturally influential or just give a real spirit of the towns that you're in, because you're in some great locations. You're in Seattle, you're in. Is it Fargo? Are you in North Dakota?

Speaker A: We're in Fargo, we're in Kansas City, Detroit, Alexandria, Virginia and so many more. And so they're really kind of pocket cities that have a lot of culture, have a lot of really amazing collaborators there. And so it's truly unique spin on a city that maybe you're there for leisure or business, but that you want to lean into and truly enjoy.

Speaker B: I love that. And the thing is too, that these hotels are really beautiful luxury experiences in addition to being in these cool places. So when you hear more and more about luxury travelers who want to feel seen and understood rather than simply impressed, which is, I think, what we're talking about.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: It's like they want to immerse themselves. Why do you think hospitality shifted from focusing, uh, on the physical amenities to those emotional outcomes to that storytelling?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's such a good question. I think the whole of an industry has shifted, but I think again, there was early adopters that did it really well. I think a lot of the luxury brands where I started in my early career, it was always about thinking of a 100 year brand, not a 10 year brand. So generationally, what can we do to intrigue our future travelers, our younger travelers, our current travelers, and how is that going to translate over time? And so it's sort of a timeless philosophy in that you want to be part of now, you want to be part of the experiences and the culture that's happening. And to have that offering outside of your traditional amenities for travelers to feel seen and understood or to try something new is certainly I don't think a new philosophy, but one that I think started in luxury and is truly being capitalized by the best of the lifestyle brands that just keep that human connection alive.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know you mentioned AI there and I know we've talked about it to death. Again, m kind of getting sick and tired of talking about AI but when you think about, you mentioned Four Seasons where you started. So I think Four Seasons has absolutely from the beginning known how to really deliver guest experience. And I mean you work there, I just know from the outside. But they really had a good beat on every single guest. What they really liked from the beginning of the stay through the end, keeping all those notes and capturing it. Now with AI and some of the systems that run in the back end, you can enable frontline staff to provide a similar level. Right. So I feel like, and you correct me if I'm wrong, you're the expert here, but it used to be that it was kind of those luxury brands that had the resources and kind of the staff and the process in place that could deliver that experience. And now even as a smaller hotel company, you can get that right if you have the right technology in place. Do you think that that's a fair statement?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's so true. I mean for anybody to deny that AI is so important today and in marketing and in experience, anything that's service based be ignoring a massive trend in front of us. So certainly there are great solutions. Guest history, guest preferences, special dates, how you're going to prep and what's most important or uh, how I like to think about it is what is makes it an ease for the guest if it helps in their pre planning process. And we all know that that's so stressful. Sometimes your vacation ends up being more work than it was worth and by the time you're there you're super stressed. So if we can ease pain points, that's incredible. And that's where we're leaning into. Where I think it lacks, at least today is again that personalization. You can read an email newsletter and know that it was generated by AI and you start to learn the cadence of the voice. On my team, we're really passionate about what we write and how we write it and making sure we're leaning on AI tools, maybe for corrections or need, but staying authentic and especially keeping an authentic voice. I think the other thing AI can't do is read the room and so where it's great is pre arrival and post departure and maybe some pressure points along the way. But I think the magic and the art of hospitality and I don't think we'll ever get there with AI is meeting that person at check in and realizing they're really flustered, they've had a really stressful experience and trying to think about what could I offer, do upgrade, adjust plan for them that would help ease their pain points. Travel used to be glamorous. People used to dress up to get on an airplane and it's just not the case anymore. And so whether it's our amazing, uh, colleagues at the check in desk or that server, we have a philosophy called the fifth meatball. At Aperium, the idea is you are empowered to bring the fifth meatball. Your menu has four meatballs as part of the serving and there is five guests. You don't need to ask, you don't need to overthink it. You need to bring them the little pleasures, bring the fifth meatball and like read the room and get ahead of some of these things. That is truly the art of hospitality. And I don't think while AI is incredible and we certainly use it and lean into it, we have to remember this is a human business. And wherever we can add back those human elements, that's going to be a win for us, for our clientele. They're going to remember that warmth, that feeling. The original ethos of hospitality.

Speaker B: I think that's my new favorite quote is AI can't read the room. And you're absolutely right. And people go to hotels to interact with humans that can read the room.

Speaker A: So true. Whether they want it or not. Because I know sometimes when I'm traveling I just want to put my baseball hat on and like get through. You don't realize, you know, we saw that a lot during COVID without that human connection, you saw over time what it did to your mental state. And that's the art of hospitality.

Speaker B: That's absolutely correct. So Aperium hotels are also known for their strong food, beverage and cultural programming. Why do you think that restaurants, bars and social spaces have become such an important part of lifestyle hospitality today?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think this is great. And again, like kudos to Mario Tricocci, our founder and sort of the original founders and their philosophy. They actually came up with a pillar and a made up word called translocal. And the idea is that you could walk into any one of our bars, restaurants, common areas. You could be a transient guest there for business and you might be Right next to a local. And so when you think about food, beverage and cultural programming for us, they really go hand in hand. And it's this philosophy of that's a really cool bar, that's a really cool experience, that's incredible live music, the lighting is right, the scent is right, this vibe is perfect. And it's a place that you're not only comfortable being that road warrior guest that just wants maybe a quick cocktail as well as the local that lives in a great loft down the street that wants to, to go to a really smart bar and meet interesting people. And so with that sort of as one of our three company core pillars and sort of uh, our North Star and all that we do, you can imagine how it shapes sort of the food and beverage experience. One of Mario's partner, Michael Kitchen always talks about the Blue Flame. And that is when you walk into one of our hotels, which we used to call restaurants and bars with hotel rooms on top. That philosophy is sort of changing. But you are drawn to, to this incredibly social experience. The hottest part of a flame. That's our bar, that's our incredible restaurant experience. And again, it's not only about incredible food and beverage, fresh farm to table, unique cocktails, but it's about the entire ambiance that is created sort of around you and what sort of cultural pillars you can see or meet while you're there.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and I have to say that vibe really comes through. Looking at the branded websites, looking at all the different hotels, you can really feel that vibe. I was checking out the Seattle property in Pioneer Square and just the images on the website, I'm like, I want to go there like so kudos to your team for bringing that. You know, we talk about how do you get the storytelling, the emotion across so that people understand the product before they get there. And that really comes through as something that you want to be a part of.

Speaker A: Yeah. And just to add to that, because I think really well said and observed, the building of that vibe and experience happens years before the hotel opens. We have an incredible design and programming team that from project Origin and again that original one of one philosophy where we're custom designing from the interior perspective, branding from these like there is not a strong aperium brand by design. It is populous Seattle that you mentioned. It is the crossroads in Kansas City. And so this team gets in very early, sometimes two or so years out and they get to know the community, the neighborhood, the competition, um, certainly what's lacking where we could lean in. So from an interior Design and original collaborator establishment down to some of the materials we use to early entry by our food and beverage team and lifestyle team. We're thinking about how we can resonate locally, how we can differentiate and how we can sort of like honor that space. And it's all truly unique one from the other, which is a really incredible brand approach.

Speaker B: It really is. And I think it really goes back to how bespoke and curated the collection is. So, you know, again, I think it became a trend to have kind of these boutique hotels and everybody, you know, the big boxes want to be able to replicate it and vibrant. It's more than just a cool logo and slapping that on a hotel and having a wine hour or whatever. You know, it's like when you talk to groups like yours that really, I mean, you know, a couple of years just to create that vibe and ambiance that carries through all the way. I mean, it's highly encourage art our listeners to check it out because it's such a different. It's just a cool experience right from the jump from digital all the way through. Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about leadership and hospitality, and it's evolving in a lot of ways today, especially across lifestyle and brand that we've talked about. But as a female leader in hospitality, how have you seen leadership culture change over the years?

Speaker A: Such a good question. Uh, I think the honest part about hospitality is that we've always had strong women in it. That part isn't new. That part goes back centuries. That said, what positions they're in today, where they're sitting, and even the fact that they're sitting and not maybe running through housekeeping and whether their voices are helping shaping strategy, I think that's the biggest shift, that's the most exciting shift. I don't personally stop to think of myself as a female leader. I just think of myself as a leader. And unless the pink blazer gives it away, it might be things that other people notice before me because I just think there's so many men and women that have shaped me. And it's just about being like a good person, being empathetic, certainly getting the job done and improving results, but remembering you're all kind of human at the end of the day. So I try to model for the people around me, especially women earlier in their careers, the same lessons that I carried from the beginning. Again, collect the lessons and the memories. Never forget those. I remember the biggest lessons every single day. Hospitality by nature, builds a lot of relationships. I have some of the best friends and strongest relationships that came from my working years even before, you know, I was in a leadership role. And stay out of the rest. And what I mean by the rest is just the drama, the added layers that don't serve you and everything in between. Just stay focused on the goal. And as a leader, treat people with as much respect as you're given and remember, sort of the golden rule as you continue to grow.

Speaker B: I think that's fantastic advice. I think that's prevalent at any company. But what you said there, I think is really poignant because you can get wrapped around the axle trying to navigate all this stuff, or you can just do what you do best. And I don't know if you have any further advice on that point.

Speaker A: I think it's such a good point, and it is funny. It doesn't matter what business you're in. If you're in the hotel, if you're offering marketing services, exterior, or if you're in financial services, there's drama. If you want to pick it up anywhere, it's just not gonna serve you. And I think just knowing who you are and how you come off in a meeting and how you sound to people, those are the most important tools. I just made my team go through it again. I'm sure they're exhausted by it, but where you actually record yourself answering tough questions, and then you watch it back. And by human nature, there's nothing more uncomfortable than watching yourself back. I'm sure when this podcast comes out, I'll be like, oh, you know, even though you might think it's great, I'll be like, oh, that was a tough one. But that's very humbling. And that's how you lear and just keeping your eyes on the prize and enjoy your life outside of work, too. I mean, it's so easy to let it consume you. And if you're not busy, if you don't have a lot of other things taking your energy, it's so easy to go down the rabbit hole and just resist. You'll have a much happier life if you just check out and stay out of all the side business when you leave.

Speaker B: That's right. I love that. You know, what I do is I watch a lot of Bravo. That's where I get my drama.

Speaker A: Sometimes that makes my blood pressure go up. Sometimes I have to turn off the Bravo. I have noticed that people are like, you watch Bravo?

Speaker B: I'm like, yeah, I like to have my drama, like, quested over there. And then I just Live my life over here. You got to do what works for you, right? So okay, so final question for you. Another piece of advice here. So if a hotelier is listening to this episode and they want to start to create more emotionally connected guest experiences, what's the first thing you think that they should focus on?

Speaker A: Yeah, so important, I think start with your people. So especially in hotels, sitting in the seat of hq, it sometime can feel frustrating. Like I built this brand and it's not articulated well or why isn't it resonating like it was such an emotionally driven brand, you have to start with your people. And I mean like the people on the front line, do they know what the brand is? And for us it's a different brand each time. And so do you know your custom brand? And I don't mean just like the branding or the tagline, but how was it built? It was built for this community, by this community. Do you understand the story behind it? And then do you understand the purpose of what we're doing in hospitality, which again is building these experiences. And so I always say start with the people because if they don't buy in to what we're doing here, that is not going to resonate to the customer. Both in their elevator pitch of how to articulate like tell me about this hotel and again kind of like reading the room and what we are in service of which is in creating these incredible pain free as possible experiences for travelers. So that's starting point one. And then I would say get started with your community early before you think you need to. I told you about our amazing programming and design team. They're in there a couple of years before any of the operations team, building relationships, researching, realizing and pointing out what's cool. And again, that's local makers, artists, chefs, cultural voices. That's built into the foundation of each one of our hotels. And I think get your people excited, get your community excited and partnered with you before they partner with somebody else. And then the last thing, which I think again we do really well, is just resist the temptation to replicate. What works in one city, won't work in another. And guests can feel the difference between a hotel that belongs to its place and one that was dropped into it. And again, I think as we scale this business in a Parium, that's exactly our point. With a platform like a Parium 4 where we can partner with a soft brand and still bring that, that lifestyle ethos, pulse, vibe and community and sort of bring the best of both worlds, the scale of a larger brand and what we think is really emotional resonance of connecting with your community and vibe.

Speaker B: Wow. That is so cool. Dina, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for joining me today.

Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Karen. So nice to chat with you.

Speaker B: Thank you for joining. Joining us on this episode of Hotel Moment by Revinate, our community of hoteliers is growing every week, and each guest we speak to is tackling industry challenges with the innovation and flexibility that our industry demands. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate and leave a review. And if you're listening on YouTube, please like the video and subscribe for more content. For more information, head uh to Revinate.com Hotel Moment podcast until next time, keep innovating.