274 - The Influencer Playbook: 3 Simple Wins for Independent Hoteliers

Speaker A: Well, good day, fellow hoteliers, and welcome to episode 274 of the Hotel Marketing Podcast by Travelboom. I'm your host, Pete Demeo.

Speaker B: And I'm MacKenzie.

Speaker A: And together. This is what you're supposed to say, Mackenzie. And together, along with the team off

Speaker B: camera, along with the team off camera were the, uh. Boom squad.

Speaker A: Boom squad. So, hey, so, mackenzie M. We got a really cool show today. We got a Special guest star, Mr. Nick Escobar, with our sister agency, Joy Bite. What's up, man?

Speaker C: How's it going, guys? Good to be here.

Speaker A: Yeah, super excited about it. We, we, uh, hadn't been together. I think it was DTH summit back at this spring that we were all together finally.

Speaker C: Collaboration of worlds here. Let's go.

Speaker A: It is, it's the, the mind trust that we have. But, uh, we're about to learn a whole bunch about you. But before we do that, I gotta get into a little bit of housekeeping. And I wanna let everybody know that if you want the show notes for today, go to travelboommarketing.com podcast. You can check us out on YouTube and hopefully you're listening to us on YouTube or LinkedIn right now because as of 3:00 Eastern Time on August 5th, we're live right now. So, hello everybody out there in YouTube and LinkedIn land. Really excited to have you on the show. So what we'll be talking about today is I think hoteliers have largely figured out most of the core marketing channels. We understand pay per click, we understand metasearch, we understand the OTAs and emails, SEO, obviously, we understand the foundations of marketing, including the website and everything else. But for some reason we've had a hard time getting our heads wrapped around influencer marketing and how it can actually drive direct bookings. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. So that's why we need to have Nick, um, on, because he is the guru of all things influencer marketing with Joybite, and he's going to help us understand how to use independent. How to use influencer marketing for the independent hotels, why most campaigns end up flopping, and things that we can do to fix that. And most importantly, if you stay tuned to the second part of the podcast, he's going to have three specific things that you, as an independent hotelier, can do right after this show is over. To become a direct booking powerhouse machine, uh, through influencer marketing. So, Nick, thanks, man. I really appreciate you being on the show. I know you're busy. McKenzie said that you Guys are so busy that we're having to screen, uh, your calls and make sure you're talking to people who are going to be closing. So what's going on, buddy?

Speaker C: Yeah, this is good. Business is good over here. So, I mean, the influencer and creator space is always evolving, always changing. So it's a fun atmosphere to work in love. Um, to give you just a quick introduction too, a little bit about myself and where we stand. Um, just to give you a heads up, Joy Bite is a super focused social agency that works on brands, helping them grow on platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Uh, I'd say the biggest things about us is we don't love cookie cutter influencer, uh, rosters or kind of platform search to find our talent. Um, and really everything we do is really tailored. So managing organic social, building influencer communities, and most importantly is helping you understand kind of this wild, wild M West landscape of influencers and what it really drives for brands.

Speaker A: Yeah, so that's what we're going to be talking about today is because I know a lot of our hoteliers always say the same thing. It's like, uh, I get these influencers that call me. They want to stay at our property. All they want is a free room. I don't see any return. It seems like you guys have kind of cracked the code to actually make influencer marketing drive revenue.

Speaker C: Correct. And as my job ahead of growth too, I'm really focused in on finding partnerships and help them brands to succeed. Because it is truly the wild, wild west on influencers and creators.

Speaker A: Amen. So. Well, hey, let's go ahead and jump in though. But before we do that, I figure we probably need to get a little bit of knowledge. Not necessarily what you do, but kind of what you do, uh, outside of work. So today's little icebreaker question, which we always ask that every episode. And I'll let you guys choose. Mackenzie if you want to go first, or Nick if you want to go first. But here's the question. How has social media changed how you plan your own personal travel? Mackenzie, you want to share how it is?

Speaker B: Okay, I'll go ahead. I was going to let our special guest go, but ladies first. Um, yeah, I mean, it's completely changed the way that I plan travel. I think when you've got short form or long form content online, you can actually experience the property rather than just seeing things on a page. I mean, I'm a huge visual learner and just a visual person in general. Um, and when I'm able to See that and kind of hear it just builds that authenticity and trust when it's coming from somebody other than the property. Um, so yeah, I mean social has, has changed the game as far as planning travel for me and I love it. I mean I'm usually going straight to TikTok or Instagram before I'm going on an OTA or even searching on Google I think.

Speaker C: So I was going to say like to expand on. That's exactly how I use social, uh, too. I mean it's skipping Google now and it's going straight to Instagram or TikTok search what to do, what places to stay at. I mean that is what I truly use to plan my trips. Uh, and it's a great recommendation. I mean seeing those visuals is huge for me. Uh, and, and I like to hear firsthand from people who've lived those experiences.

Speaker A: Yeah, it, I think that's kind of how it's, it's evolving and that's why obviously Nick, we want to have you on today is kind of learn more about it. But that's it for me as well. So I just got back from a phenomenal cruise on the Royal Caribbean. It was an eight day kind of just decompress disconnect from all Internet activity. And the way I planned that was really chat GPT to kind of understand some of the trends and you know, pricing and what I can and can't bring on the cruise, all that kind of fun stuff. But because of the room for improvement, I've been spending so much time on Reddit, I've found that there's so many of those small little groups of avid, avid fans in this case of Royal Caribbean that had incredibly specific things about when's the best time to buy your deluxe drink package or if you buy a excursion, can you cancel it and rebook it at a better price. I did not use Google I don't think at all in that entire planning process, which is different for me because I'm kind of the older guy in this whole podcast. But you know, even for, for me and my what, uh, Gen X world, you know, I've kind of moved away from that to use these alternate platforms as well.

Speaker C: Pete, it's kind of crazy you said chatgpt. I can't believe I m haven't done that to plan my trips yet. Using chatbots to get uh, ahead and ask that what's going on in that space, give me recommendations. I use it for pretty much everything else. So the fact that I haven't used it for travel, uh, is huge.

Speaker A: I tell you what, bypasses. I say this as someone who's trying to sell paid advertising, but it bypasses all the paid stuff and it really gives you a starting point, you know, I mean, like, I think once you learn how to use any type of AI, it's an innovative process of first asking a question, then expanding on it and expanding on it. The nice part was, is that I had a project set up for cruise planning and I keep go back to it, keep asking, asking, and it got to the point where I was like, hey, what do I need about this deluxe drink package? It already knew the dates I was traveling, it already knew I was going on Royal Caribbean and it knew all those details. So it immediately got to me, to my results that I wanted way, way faster. And then I'd hit up Reddit and Instagram and all that stuff to get more detail, but it was, it definitely changed how I planned that trip.

Speaker B: Well. And I think, like, not to get too into the weeds on this. I know it's just our icebreaker. We got a lot of talk, a lot to talk about today. But I think from the social side, it's nice when you're seeing that ugc because there isn't always a shiny filter over it. It's somebody's real, raw, unfiltered experience. And it's not the brand, you know, curating something that makes them look good. You know, they're just going to be honest about it. So that's what I love about it is just kind of seeing different people's opinions and you know, sometimes it's great, other times it's not so great. So, mhm, Starting point.

Speaker A: So to build on that, I do wish that in my case, for either Reddit or the place that I was visiting, I do wish Royal Caribbean had a share of voice because so much of it is people's own personal opinions. But it would be nice if Royal Caribbean would jump in and be like, hey, I really appreciate that. Yeah, definitely do what these people are saying or give me a call, let me hook you up. Because you're part of this exclusive community. It's not exclusive, but you know, make, make the consumer feel good, but be where that consumer actually is instead of just your standard, you know, PPC campaigns, you know, organic search and stuff like that. All right, so we've broken the ice. Nick, how does it feel? You've, uh, you're what, about six minutes or so into this thing? Do you, uh, do you want to leave yet or can we keep you around?

Speaker C: Yeah, I was gonna say first icebreaker down, guys. I think it's going all right. We'll see. Uh, I'm just. I'm excited to dive in because I know we've got a lot to talk about today, so, um, just a pleasure, M. I'm just glad we got invited.

Speaker A: Perfect. Well, before we get into the big stuff, Nick, you get to hear me sing a stupid song. We're gonna talk about the news. Mackenzie's gonna go through some room for improvement, and we'll go from there. So. So here we go with hotel marketing that cannot lose. Now it's time for your newsaroo.

Speaker B: I feel like you put some extra, like, enthusiasm behind that today. I think you were here to deliver with our special guest.

Speaker C: Is that for me, by the way?

Speaker B: That's.

Speaker C: That's beautiful. That was just well executed. You got the voice of an angel, truly.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker C: Let's get that produced.

Speaker A: It's a mix of Jesus and Fergie.

Speaker C: Let's get that on the track.

Speaker A: All right, so. So the news today comes from several sources. I got Travel Weekly, I've got a LinkedIn article. But basically, the news is big troubles in Sin City. So in June, Occupancy was down 14.9% in Vegas, visitors were down 11.3% according to their CVB compared to 2024. July is looking rough too. Uh, I'm seeing 13, 14% down in visitors and, you know, above 50% down occupancy for July. We haven't seen the official, uh, star numbers yet, but that's what it's coming from. And once you start digging into it, it appears really to be the compression that consumers are feeling in the wallet. The average ticket to the sphere, which is obviously the big attraction in Vegas, is $309 per person. That's the average. Resort fees are $50 per night, parking is $20 a day. Uh, yeah, there's a. A big Instagram presence called Local Las Vegas Local. They're sharing a big story that went somewhat viral where one of their, uh, followers was complaining that at Aria they had a $26 bottle of water. And that is starting to hurt Vegas big time. So, mackenzie, I know you said you heard the. The same story from some of your friends.

Speaker B: Yes, I had a group of friends that went this summer, probably in early June, um, and kind of the same expression overall, especially the water bottle part. That was something that they specifically called out, um, which. It's a necessity. It's water. It's H2O. So, I mean, if that's Going to be priced at 25, $30 a bottle. You know, you can even imagine what alcohol, food and other costs are. Um, it's part of the reason I was, I was kind of describing before the show. It's part of the reason I haven't gone there. Um, I'm a little apprehensive just because of how costly everything is. And I would love to, you know, get the full Vegas experience, but the budget is uh, a little scary. So

Speaker A: yeah, I don't know what the, the magic is for, for Vegas to help turn this around. They've switched from, you know, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas to a lot more of a family atmosphere or at least they've been trying to cultivate that. But this kind of falls right in the face of that because if I'm going with a family, I'm not paying $40 for the, for the breakfast buffet, you know, a ton of money for access to the pool at the hotel I'm already at. And there's all those costs that they're starting to drive away certain set of customers. And it does open up an opportunity for other destinations who may be closer to those people's homes and offer something that's a little bit different than Vegas because it's a, uh, it's something that's definitely changing the landscape from, from Vegas's perspective.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's such a unique ecosystem there. Like, I think it's just important to keep in mind that everything kind of feeds into one another. So like the sphere is going to have an impact, those costs are going to have an impact on all the hotels and resorts in the area. And everything just kind of feeds into one another. So it's not something that hoteliers can just kind of look at and ignore. When you have uh, a like experience based destination like Vegas, everything is, is taken into consideration for travelers.

Speaker C: And even, even like talking just in my realm to influencers and creators, it's just crazy because that ecosystem is going to be so transparent about what's going on, these price points, sharing these stories, uh, and it can be really detrimental because influencers are not afraid to shy off for the true honest opinions of what's going on in their, in and around their environments.

Speaker A: Well, I mean Nick, I think you probably have a better pulse on that than any of us. Just because that is true, that is Vegas has leaned in so far on the, the influencer side just because one, it's uh, a, it's beautiful people and beautiful places don't want to be a part of it. And if they start coming down, that's going to really have a downstream impact.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And people are like, the content's already out there, so the algorithm is going to be pushing it a little bit more. Content creators are going to be flooding social with that storytelling, too. So it's going to be, uh, a crisis averted storytelling, uh, there with influencers and creators. It's got to be really cautious because they're not afraid to share their, their experiences.

Speaker A: Yep. And their authentic experiences. And that's the thing, too, is they're showing you exactly what you can expect in Vegas that may not fall in line with CVB's perception of, of their market. So if, if you, I think if you've been to Vegas and you've seen those issues, comment. If you're on YouTube or LinkedIn, you can comment down below and let us know what you think there. Uh, if you're listening on the podcast, hit us up@travelbookmarketing.com podcast and tell us what you think the secret sauce is to help Vegas get back where they need to be. All right, so that's kind of wraps up the. The newsaroos. Mackenzie. We still haven't figured out a good, uh, song for Room for Improvement.

Speaker B: But stay, uh, tuned, everybody. It'll be coming soon. Yeah, uh, suspense. But, yeah, this is, uh, my favorite little segment that we do, our Room for Improvement, where we scour Reddit hotels and see kind of what the buzz is going on. We talk about a hotel fail and maybe how they could have fixed it. Or sometimes we take the hotel side and we talk about what the guests could have done better in the situation. So, uh, Nick, I don't think we, we gave you this beforehand, but we love reading the Reddit usernames. They're usually always pretty funny. So today's segment comes to us from Automatic Tomato 7979.

Speaker C: So what a. What a username there,

Speaker B: Mrs. Automatic Tomato. Here we go. Um, the headline reads, just checked into a resort in North Myrtle Beach. Is this normal, or should I ask to move room? So I will say part of the reason I picked this is we are headquartered, we're based out of Myrtle Beach Travel. Um, boom is at least, so definitely struck, uh, my interest when I saw this. But here we go. Automatic Tomato just arrived at an oceanfront suite in North Myrtle Beach. The room looks nice at first, but I've noticed some issues. Drips and stains coming down from the ceiling near the ac. Carpet feels damp in a few spots. Room smells musty. Chair and Couch. Both feel wet and found a pillow on the chair that's soaking wet. Is this just normal with the humidity here and strong ac, or does it sound like a situation where I should ask to be moved? Would appreciate any advice from people familiar with the area or similar hotel experiences. So I definitely have some thoughts, but I'll pass it over to you guys to kind of see what you think on this one.

Speaker A: So, as a Myrtle beach resident and as a human with a brain, I would say go talk to the front desk. I appreciate you going here and sharing on Reddit. And again, this is social media. This is an. A true experience that somebody had that the hotel didn't address in advance, which means now they've got a. A slight problem, not a big one, but this is the kind of thing that I think automatic Tomato should just walk downstairs. Like, dude, my room is soaking wet. That is not normal for Myrtle beach or any other destination. We have had a ton of rain here. My. I haven't been able to mow my yard in forever and it's actually raining right now. It's wet, so you probably have like a leak. And for someone whose Last name is tomato7979, I'm assuming you're in the Gen X category like me, and just go talk to the front desk and see if they can hook you up because I feel bad for you there.

Speaker B: You're old enough, you know?

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker B: Not calling you old. Not calling you old.

Speaker A: Soggy Tomato. Let's go.

Speaker C: Yeah, man, I forgot how crazy usernames can get on Reddit.

Speaker A: That's.

Speaker C: I'm still distracted by that, but yeah, absolutely. Talk to the front des. Uh, wild.

Speaker A: So from.

Speaker B: Interesting one. I, I think it's just kind of a. A situation that could have been avoided. Um, maybe make the Reddit post after you go down to the front desk. And if the front desks refuses to accommodate or do anything for you, then the. The Reddit post is justified.

Speaker A: But see, that's also where the room inspections come in. Because a housekeeper was in that room right before the people checked in. Obviously the bed was made, the room was clean. They said that they. The room looked great. If the, if the housekeeping staff, when they come in to audit the room, does not pick up on that. That's a real operational issue that I do think whichever property this was in our area, they need to make that right because this is the very first impression that this user is getting to your property. And even if they make it right, it is going to add questions to not only that guest, that maybe I don't want to stay here in the future. And everybody who's big fans of Automatic Tomato are going to second guess staying not just in that property, but in North Myrtle beach in general.

Speaker C: Question, too. So when you guys, when we see this, what would be next steps from that property? Like we see, we see that Reddit post, how would you respond? What are the next steps for you guys?

Speaker A: So that's tricky because, and it's actually probably a good thing for the property is the property name is not mentioned either in the original post or in the comments underneath of it. If I was the property and I found that this out, first of all, heartfelt apology. That's not the QA that you expect for your property. You make sure that you. I always say that if a guest has a problem, it is your opportunity to surprise and delight and just wow that guest. I want that guest of wish they had a bigger problem when they see how I go overboard to solve the issue. So if it's a little thing like hey, my bed wasn't made or something was a little bit messy. Okay, let's go and upgrade you to the next level room. Let's make sure that we comp your breakfast if we need to. Let's do whatever we can so that when you leave, you're saying, oh my gosh, it was amazing. There was a small issue, but the hotel treated it like a big deal and they made it better for me. I think that's what you got to do. Yeah, I don't know what property this was, but that's the advice I would give them.

Speaker C: Love it.

Speaker A: All right, cool. Anything else that we guys want to add to, uh, rfi? Otherwise, we'll talk about the main reason that we have Esco on the call.

Speaker B: I say we get into it.

Speaker A: All right, so here we go. This is the main topic to kind of kick everything off. We thought it'd be good to have a little Q and A with Nick to get a better understanding of influencer marketing for hotels. And the big question that always comes up and Nick, I kind of like just turn this over to you is what does influencer marketing actually mean for a hotel today? And does it matter? And like, has it evolved? Is this something that every hotelier should be focusing on right now?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, if I take a look five years ago, influencer marketing for hotels was a little bit more focused on true aesthetics. Like, if you think about where this content was, they're on the website I mean, trying to show all these off on ott, uh, videos, but really they're sunsets, poolside cocktails. How do I get that perfect drone shot today? It's a little bit more evolved when it comes to our storytelling and the convert, the conversations we want to create on these platforms. So in my eyes, it's not just like, look at this place. Uh, it's, it's here. What I experience and what you, what you should be experiencing when you book now is the story that I want to create on these platforms. The content has gone from aspirational on the property line to more relatable in a way that truly social algorithms and platforms love to share.

Speaker A: So I guess that's exciting. I guess. I mean, the question becomes. And so, and we'll be kind of diving into this as we go through the, the episode, but we want to understand, okay, so what does a hotel need to do? Uh, I know one of the questions that everybody has is, you know, people are skeptical, right? We get a ton of random requests and does it, is it the issue that it doesn't work for hotels? Or is an issue that hotels are just, just doing it wrong?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's tough. Because if, if as a property, I know we kind of open up the floodgates and we, we can't just let any influencer who knocks on the door and think that we're going to get crazy results. Um, when I, when you're skeptical about the power of influencers and creators, it comes down to the type of influencers and creators that you work with and expectations of what you set in terms of content and approach and reach. So when I look at anyone who comes in, for the most part, who comes into a hotel space or a property space, typically they're probably going to be more on the ambassadors and affiliate level. Typically, sometimes you see an elite influencer or a true UGC content creator, but those are typically people who want to trade a product, stay for a vacation, or just in terms of content. Where is this trade value really coming out of? Um, just because they come to you doesn't mean they're going to be able to deliver great content. Um, their, their followers, they might throw out a follower number and you might be enticed and be like, wow, that's a great following number. More importantly for us, I want to see engagement that they create, let alone with their content, but actual conversations with their audiences here. Um, it's so easily to be distracted and taken. Anyone who knocks on that door, anyone who slides in the DMs asking to really come in and be an influence, influencer and creator for us. We have to have some safeguards and measurements around that and expectations with influencers and creators.

Speaker B: I love how you mentioned having, you know, uh, the hotel does have autonomy and they can be selective in who they're choosing. I think that's part of it is it almost feels like, oh, we've got this opportunity. This might be the only opportunity or the only influencer that knocks on our door. And that's probably not the case. If you've got a really unique property, you're probably getting requests like these a lot. So be selective about who you're choosing to work with based on your goals. I love that.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. I would kind of expand on that just a little bit because like you said, if you're a popular property, you're probably getting inundated with these requests. You may have had a bad experience. And that's not necessarily influencer marketing. That's just you kind of falling for the person that comes to your. You're knocking at your door trying to sell you something.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: Really is important. I think, Nick, you'll probably go into a bunch of detail about this is let's vet this person and there's gonna be another influencer down the road. So let's make sure the ones we're picking actually are authentic to our property and the people who they interact with are our customers.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. We can't just let any door to door salesman come in and say that they can promise you the world. Um, that's a lot of times that's where I see influencer programs fall flat. I mean, it takes. It is truly like herding cats to dive through the right influencers and look at this at scale, um, to really narrow it down to the right fit of the influencers with the right community and the right content. And we have to be really strategic of who we bring on and not just let anyone into this program just because they asked and said that they can promise you the world.

Speaker B: Well, I think that's one of the biggest strengths of Joy Bite. And obviously you could speak to it better than I could. But just that vetting process, you know, the hotels, a lot of the times don't have the time or necessarily the expertise to thoroughly vet these influencers. So having a partner like you is great from that aspect to kind of take care of the strategy up front. Um, but yeah, diving into that a little bit more. My question for you, Nick, is how can independent or boutique hotels that don't have that big brand backing so they've got limited budgets. Actually generate some direct revenue through influencer partnerships.

Speaker C: Yeah. So we, we explored the realm of again I'm not huge on finding someone based off of their follower accounts. In terms really what I would rather do is work with someone who has communities really tied. So work with micro influencers who over deliver, give them affiliate links or custom promo codes. Although promo codes aren't my favorite because crawlers can get a hold of them. But in terms of content and over delivering, we want to use their content and retargeting ads. I mean that's where we can amplify the influence influencer campaign and program. The key is not how big the influencer is, it's how tight is the fit and how smartly can we repurpose the content. Um, the easiest way I can explain this is we're thinking a true creator partner for the property and not just a guest to come on and shoot some content.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And then inversely on the flip side, how would larger hotel groups approach that influencer marketing differently to make sure that they're still getting a measurable roi?

Speaker C: Uh, ah, that's great. Yeah, you gotta look at the flip side too. So bigger properties need to build programs, not just one offs. Typically what I see is we need to be looking at longer term engagements and partnerships. So how do I build a stable of 20 to 30 creators across markets? We can test different angles, measure conversions, but we're treating creators because we're doing it at scale. Like a performance channel. Not really. Prior to um, I want to add tracking, attribution but more importantly how do I integrate them with our paid media channels? Because it turns your paid social media ads into from just static ads into media buying with faces. And that's the story we want to tell with influencers and creators.

Speaker A: I love the idea of it. It's a partner to your business and it's not a one off purchase that you're making.

Speaker C: Yeah, long term engagements is what I strive for. I'm truly. We always do a test. We always. You never know what you're going to exactly get as long as we do proper vetting and exploration. And we think that we have a true winner with an influencer and a brand. Bring them on. But I'm not looking for them to create one piece of content and hope that that's going to drive results. I'm looking for a test of exposure where I'm tracking some metrics, I'm tracking conversations and then I'm hoping to get multiple content pieces out of them and a longevity of brand partnerships where they know that their influencer's favorite spot is this hotel space in Charleston, South Carolina or something like that. Looking to build a more dominant campaign instead of one off engagements here. Uh, just depends on the type of influencers and who we bring on.

Speaker B: I think it's important for hoteliers to keep in mind too, that influencers are producing a different type of content. They're not coming down and taking, you know, professional. Well, I mean, still professional, but photos and videos. Like, you need to still have your own assets that you're going to be utilizing across the your channels. But influencers can be like a supplement, um, with their content as well. So I think that's part of the misconception is, oh, I'm gonna get all these great photos and videos. It's not so much about the physical content, it's about what they're building with their audience. Um, you need to have your own assets still.

Speaker C: Absolutely. But, and, and even, even a step further too. I mean, it is a great source where you can get great content that it performs differently. So yes, you have a time and place place for your polished content. But if you need storytelling, this isn't polished content like an ad that you would see in a commercial on as a YouTube ad. This is content that again, is having conversations and showing a true experience where someone's gonna not think of this as an ad. They're gonna think of this as an actual experience that I'm showing. I'm getting advice, travel advice of my favorite place to go. And a lot of times that content performs a ton, a a amount compared to just a static ad or a graphic ad or a video that's really well produced. And a lot of times that's where we get our paid amplification. Run that as an ad, see how it performs. A lot of times you'll be surprised just because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it has a better story and can tell that property story in a better light. It'll perform better. Um, I love using that.

Speaker A: And that's so true because it's a different medium. And what you're buying with an influencer is not so much the influencer, it's their audience. And they've built this amazing relationship so that audience for that influencer trust their opinion. Not because they have the polish to PR their way into something great. It's because they are someone who's authentically in the same spot as their Audience, they are in the hotel space, let's say they are a family that goes on vacations to cool places and they're doing exactly what the people in their audience are going to be doing. So you don't necessarily have full creative control, but you have access to that audience, which is freaking invaluable.

Speaker C: And that's a huge point too. Creative control. Creative control. Creative control. That is something that, it's a, it's a huge pain point for people to feel comfortable to letting an influencer tell that story in the right light. But again, you're not, you're not utilizing them to be the poster child. You're. You're utilizing them to tell that story to their community in the best way possible for them so they have a way to communicate to their audience. We can give them content hooks, we can give them content ideas, but let them wrap that in an authentic package where they can deliver that to their audience and really make a connection. Here I want them to be talking to their audience like, I'm your best friend and I'm making this recommendation and you can come try this out just like I am. Like, that is the point of influencers and creators.

Speaker B: Sorry, I wanted to quickly piggyback off of what you said about you're not necessarily necessarily purchasing or working solely with the influencer, you're working with their audience. And I think that kind of sparked in my mind it's important for the hotels afterward to be monitoring the engagement, um, of that influencer. The influencer can, you know, respond to different comments and interact with their audience. And that's probably what they're good at and what makes them as popular as they are on their given medium, but it's ultimately on the hotel to making sure that they're keeping up with some of those requests and inquiries. Um, I, I don't know if you have any specific advice for that, Nick, but I think that's something that they should keep in mind when investing in an influencer program is it doesn't just end when the content is posted.

Speaker C: Correct. It's. Honestly, I would, I would hate it when the content is just posted and we just leave it to you. Like that is the next aspect of how we really make a commitment or how we get the audience to be insightful is our follow up. It doesn't just stop once they post. It's how they engage with their audience. It's how they're following up and taking care of that audience. So the worst thing that a hotel space can do is just have this Engagement. Have an influencer and creator come, create content, they post it and then ghost that influencer and creator. We're creating relationships here and we want to make sure that they are having an experience at your guys's property and talking about it the way that you would talk about it. So if we go to that influencer and creator, that's going to rub them off and we're not going to get the full maximum M effect of working with that content creator. Instead, have touch points, have follow up, engage with their audience on their social media as they're posting and asking questions on here. This is a fun space where you don't have to pay to get in front of people. You are just using these communities to, to deepen your own, bringing that community back to you and having a deeper tie than just paying, paying to play.

Speaker A: That's awesome. So, so now I think we can understand, okay, if I'm a hotelier, I probably should give a crap about me social, uh, influencer programs. But it brings up the question of, okay, so now that we know we want it, now that we understand the, the power of it, how do we pick the right influencer? And Mackenzie, I know you had a couple questions about through the sea of influencers. What do you, how do you pick one?

Speaker C: So this is where we have to really like, how do we separate out the legit partners from the noise of influencers who are coming out there? I mean, and really if I think about it, it's, it's. Let's just simplify this into three simple words. So engagement, alignment and intent. Look at how their audience really engages. Are they just liking or they uh, are, are they actually asking questions and booking trips? Are they curious? Are they having conversations with this influencer, asking about their content, asking about the recommendations? That's part one. Part two is does the influencer actually fit your brand? Not every hotel space is going to be primed to having a certain influencer or creator just like your demographic. And who stays there. Would this influencer actually stay there if this wasn't free? Part 3 uh, I think I said intent. Let me, let me go through. But really intent is are they treating this partnership like a partnership or just a vacation? How are they approaching you? What kind of interactions are they having? Truly, that's why I don't love platforms to find influencers and creators just because transparently I don't trust their numbers. And they come out a little bit thirstier for their engagements. They want payment. I'd rather go out and customer recruit influencers. And creators and spark this authentic connection where they're excited to work with the brand and build a partnership instead of just come in offering a free vacation for product trade. That's, that's the difference of how.

Speaker A: Well, I think that's where hoteliers have kind of, you know, fallen their face a little bit is because they get connected to an influencer in some form or fashion and they're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, go for it. And they don't actually never take a step back to say, wait a minute, is this the person that I want repping my brand? It may not be. They may just be, like you said, looking for a free vacation. And if you don't put those guardrails in place of this is kind of who we are. We prefer you and your audience be kind of aligned with, with our mission and our vision for their guests.

Speaker B: All right, well, so kind of on top of that, I mean, we talk about cutting through the noise, but are there any specific red flags that you would say hoteliers should look out for when it comes to selecting influencers?

Speaker C: Very hard nose red flags. I love red flags. I, uh, mean, if I had to throw out the most basic red flag in here and I think it can be like the theme of what doing we're. That we're talking about and people, I. Let's just, let's just say it. If they lead with follower count instead of audience quality, that's a red flag right of the gates. Also, if they want a five night comp and can't articulate the value that they bring, run. I mean real creators are talking about outcomes, fake ones are talking about perks here. Um, I love it. Yeah. I mean, truly, I can't stress, I mean just point number one on the red flag, the follower count. Let's just start there. Because when it comes to follower accounts and even from a hotel space, when you're thinking about, oh, do I want to work with the 1 million 2 million follower account or do I want to walk work with someone in the 250 to 500,000 followers account, you will be surprised. And again, let me do the homework on it, but you'll be surprised when that 250 to 500,000 follower account is driving a million views on some of their content pieces. And the bigger, uh, Instagram or TikTok influencer and creator is only driving half of those numbers in their views and sentiments. So again, I'm trying to figure out how I can really base an influencer. It's not on follower account. It's about audience quality.

Speaker B: I love that because I feel like, I mean obviously it's been. Influencer marketing has been on the rise over the last decade and I think in the early days maybe it's okay to say yeah, let's you know, trust this big influencer. But now I think consumers are getting smarter and they're kind of realizing okay, this person has worked with pretty much every brand under the sun and maybe it's not truly like a brand of their choosing that they're really passionate about, but some of those more micro influencers are probably, you know, true ambassadors of

Speaker C: the brand and, and think about it like they have a community that I'm not having to manage a million people followers and having to if, if you have a million followers for the most part you're not interacting with your community, you're not having the time to answer all those comments and have an authentic relationship with them. It uh, is much more powerful for me to work with more of a macro micro influencer and creator. Their audience is curious about that, that property. They want to know what was so cool about it. What was your experience there? Once you post a piece of content they're going to ask questions. It's more on a micro macro level level you're going to be able, that influencer is going to be more likely to answer those questions, get those people more excited to learn more. Take that next step. If they have a link out, if they're whatever driving they're going to go and find that hotel space and they're going to want to sign up because their influencer told them about it. That is their connection that they're creating with their audience here. I love it. It's dangerous.

Speaker A: All right, uh, mackenzie M. You may take the next one here. Uh, because I think the big question is what platforms specifically for a hotel? Me, I'm not going to necessarily fall into the TikTok crowd as much but as ah, from a hotelier, how do you pick? What type of platform do you want to use? Or is that even important for the hotel? Is it better to let someone like you, Nick and Joy Byte handle that part of it?

Speaker C: It well platforms and we already talked about how, I mean like in the beginning our icebreaker. That is a perfect question as an icebreaker because platforms have different purposes in the space of influencers and creators in their marketing. So if I break down, I mean if we take a look at Instagram, tick tock threads, YouTube, I mean those are typically the big ones that people talk about. If we take a Look at specifically Tick Tock and Instagram. They are still the power duo that's going to drive, I mean TikTok's gonna drive Discovery and vibes. Instagram is gonna convert and validate. When I look at TikTok in particular it look how it's being used. It's already being indexed by Google and more importantly people are skipping Google and going right to TikTok to as a search platform. Um, I mean I see it all the time. Where to stay, what to do best, places to vacation. That's exactly how I use TikTok and the M majority of people are going there to learn more about and really plan out their vacations here. Now outside of TikTok, I mean YouTube is gold for longer stay or just luxury bookings, especially when SEO is involved. I know that the capabilities and making sure we're optimized to match some of YouTube exposure with uh, what's going on in your website. I mean that's where travel boom becomes a really valuable partner. But the SEO exposure is huge. Threads jury is still out, but affiliate links on reels and through Instagram Stories is a huge opportunity to include like a direct link out. So if they wanted to click a link, go actually convert there. That is a great platform to actually add a call to action and get someone to take next steps. Heads and beds.

Speaker B: Well and I know you all work with a lot of e commerce brands and I don't want to, you know, direct this over to that conversation but it's probably different for some of those brands that have actual products to sell on TikTok shop versus the hotels where you can only do so much. The goal is still to get them through to your website and through that booking funnel. But it's still just as important. I mean it is basically its own search engine like you said Nick, um, it's what you know, a lot of younger travelers are using. It's their starting point.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. They're going there to figure out and plan, um, um and that's huge. And the strategy differs from a CPG brand to a hotel space where with my influencers and creators that I run with a, a CPG brand I'm working with a high volume of influencers and creators and I'm doing that against ambassadors and affiliates, elite influencers and UGC content creators. If I'm working with properties, I don't have the luxury to hand out a five day stay or an experience that we can really offer and get an influence, influencer and creator excited about. So I need to Work more focus in on an elite influencer category or a UGC content creator status. And again, don't mean that by the amount of followers they have truly by what type of content they're creating and by how deeply tied their communities are. And instead of doing influencers and creators at scale, maybe you work with five or 10amonth or you figure out what that happy place. I mean every hotel is going to have their own margins and their own cost of doing business. But again, if I can offer a truly great experience, a lot of times I can get the right influencers to play ball with us. Um, so I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know, to, to build on McKenzie's question about what platform, I guess what platforms are the right ones to be using? I do think as a hotel owner, you may not necessarily be using those same platforms that your guests are using or you may not be using the platforms that your ideal guest is actually participating in. You may say, hey, you know Nick, I'm on Facebook all the time. That's what I want to use. And the reality is that may not be the right place. That you do have to look at those platforms a little bit more granularly in making sure that you're picking the right one versus just the one that you may know about as a.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And, and yeah, let me elaborate too because I think the exposure is. Not every brand should be spending a ton of time on one platform or the other. I mean you can have a healthy boundaries, but demographics are shifting all the time. Older demographics are coming into tick tock. I mean younger demographics are moving and, and having real conversations on these platforms. But again, you're right, not every brand should have access. But you won't know that success until we test the world waters out. Um, the searchability aspect on these platforms is something that we want to be able to take full control of, over and dive into and explore. I think some brands have it on the money. They know that they're a older demographic and they need to be focused more on Facebook, Instagram. The younger demographic knows that. Okay, I need to hit TikTok and I need to hit TikTok really hard. M the great thing about it is the exposure level you will be able to test out and the algorithm will feed it directly to those demographics in a really positive light. And once they see one of these videos, it's our job to hit it with a frequency. So a lot of volumes of influencers and creators, but also the right influencers and creators to fulfill content needs. TikTok is fantastic to show up if there is the right place and right time for it. We gotta. I wouldn't rule one or the other out, but I wouldn't put all our money in one basket until we test out the waters on these platforms.

Speaker A: Gotcha. So I guess that kind of leads into. My next question would be what are those common mistakes that you see hoteliers making? I think we kind of covered a lot of them, but if you kind of could distill that down, what do these hoteliers need to avoid?

Speaker C: Biggest mistake is, is walking in blind. So no strategy, just saying yes to free state dms. I, um, think how we fix that is know our goals. Is that brand awareness, is that direct bookings, is that content creation or social proof? We need to build campaigns around these instead of just going for pretty photos. Um, influencers and creators have a great potential to be a steroid on the rest of the marketing funnel, providing assets for us to use for paid amplification for um, content that's driving searchability on these platforms. We have to know, are we going brand awareness? Are we going direct bookings? Are we doing content creation and figure out those behavior beacons. The next aspect that I would say, and we, we talked about this a little bit is again, stop ghosting influencers after the stay. The, the post campaign is where ROI is really made. That's how we solidify relationships with their audience. And um, that property.

Speaker A: That's a really good or. Go ahead, McKessy.

Speaker B: Sorry. Something I thought of as well is just kind of with the misconception with influencers, I think they've basically become like the new travel blogger. Not to say that that doesn't seem still exist, but the way that influencers have gotten so popular, a single post of your property could do more for you now than what a travel blog mentioning your Property would do 20 years ago. So I think there's just kind of uh, a, a mindset shift that needs to happen and hopefully this is a good step to getting there.

Speaker C: Mackenzie that. That is also such a cool way of looking at content because back in the day you're like you travel blogs and think about all the different, different blogs that people are creating in this space to help their SEO of top things to do, places to stay. Like uh, they're building momentum in different subject matters on a.

Speaker B: Which is all still great.

Speaker C: Which is fantastic. It's fantastic. And take that the next step level. Like if you have a strong SEO play, you want to replicate that on social media as well with influencers and creators. You can use influencers to attack different article pieces. Very similar to SEO. SEO is very fundamental. You've seen the success of how that drives, uh, great blogs, drive great engagement and traction on the Internet. Do that on the social platforms as well with the type of contents because the content will get categorized very similarly to how blogs are getting categorized on the web. That's a great.

Speaker A: Yeah. And building on that, you also have to look at the changing search results where, I mean, everybody who has a very successful travel blog on their website are seeing traffic to those blogs in decline. You got things like AI overviews, you've got featured snippets, you've got a million other things crowding up the SERP that's preventing those clicks from driving there. And those tools are the same tools that a good influencer is going to use as they're working on building out their content. If you have an article about top things to do in North Myrtle beach, in the case of the tomato guy, you can use that and your influencer can build on that content and they can they work together. Just because you did that research doesn't mean that you can't use it in multiple places.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker B: Nick, I have a fun question for you and I know I had already asked about some of the red flags to look out for and I think this is probably the reddest of red flags, but how would a hotel protect themselves from fake, fake influencers or scams?

Speaker C: So this is, this is a real threat when entering this space. Like, I've seen a lot of bad influencer strategy. I've seen platforms that are setting you up to fail. Like if you go to a standard platform and you're trying to work with influencers and creators. Again, num. I don't trust numbers and I don't trust the cost of doing business on some of those platforms. And I've also seen PR agencies trying to run influencers and creators accounts. It is truly a method to the madness where we have to have a lot of hands on deck to do influencers and creators, but there's ways to test it out. So when reaching out to influencers, if you're taking this on and you're trying to avoid fake influencers or scans, just in general, ask for media kits. Real influencers and creators will have potentially have something that they can show you in terms of past experiences, previous brand collaboration. If they've worked with any other hotel space in a similar category, um, maybe they're travel influencers and they actually have some performance data to put behind that influencer account. Great. Um, you can also run their account through tools. Uh, we use Grin. Uh, and Grin is at least a starting point when trying to evaluate a partnership. Um, a lot of times they can give you key metrics and more importantly the audience engagement rates. Um, that's a great way to just test out the water if you have no idea um, what you're running to. But always, always, always have a contract, have a contract with these influencers and creators. Um, it's, it's important to at least have a foundation and set up expectations up front. If you don't have a contract, then again la la land, who knows what's going to come out of this relationship here?

Speaker A: Well that sort of seems like that it kind of all boils down to making sure. I mean it's m. It is a media purchase. I mean you want to make sure that you have stuff in writing. So I guess it kind of if you took everything we talked about. So okay, how do I make sure I actually have a good influencer agreement that will make sure it's delivering what I'm as a hotelier am expecting when

Speaker C: I take a look at the agreement. There's, there's a couple key things but things that stand out are deliverables. So expectations of content. I want to also look at usage rights and in my agreement so can we repurpose this content? Can I use it for organic social media? Can I use it for the website? Can I use it for paid social media ads? It's important to know and negotiate those up front otherwise you'll come back after the agreement and maybe sure they had great success and who knows what those numbers would look like. Second is timelines, expectations, um, of when content should go live after an influencer stays at your property. Create some content, just have some, some timelines set uh up and expectations there. Bonus points I will say if you can do white labeling and white listing through an influencer and creator account and that's set up if you have a really strong paid social media team, whitelisting is a beautiful way for to, for hotels to use influencers and creators account. Uh, I'm not sure if everyone's familiar with this but just in case you're not, a paid media team can run a set budget through an influencer and creators account and run an ad that looks a lot more natural and native to that feed. So it doesn't stand out that it's an ad. Um, that's something that you can also include in your contract, um, that I love to hit on. That's a sweet spot that again makes our influencer program a lot more powerful here.

Speaker B: That's such a smart strategy. Not really something that I was super aware of in your space, but obviously you're the expert here. I want to go back to what you said about asking for media kits. I think that is so smart and it does kind of prove that you do have autonomy in who you're choosing to work with. It's kind of like hiring somebody. You're not just going to blindly hire someone without seeing their resume first. And that's kind of your somewhat resume for an influencer. So I love that you brought that up. Um, I think it's important too to have relevant experience. Experience. I think that's something you could probably touch on more too Nick. But yeah, if they've got all this great content and these great metrics, sure. But is it going to translate into our space? Um, so that's something to keep in mind as well.

Speaker C: Yeah. And, and they're, they're like in taking a step forward, like if we're trying to think about how we put. So if someone shows you a media kit and they show typical numbers, let's say they worked with another partner there, you're going to be like taking a look at what their audience engagement rate is, what kind of what content numbers they were doing. There's vanity metrics in there, but if they can do a level deeper and not every influencer and creator is going to be able to do this sets up tracking. Let's talk about tracking a little bit. If we're able to do tracking and build out affiliate link codes, UTM codes, um, again, promo codes. Great. We should show some exposure there. Now you shouldn't take for granted an influencer and creator just because they don't have those numbers. Because all ROI is not necessarily the be all end all for influencer and creator programs, but it's a good metric to see actual performance results. Um, I think when you're taking a look at evaluating an influencer based off the media media kit, definitely take a look at audience score conversations and then you get the benefit of some performance data metrics as well. I'm more curious about content and conversations with their audience.

Speaker A: And that's true I think because there's so many. This is not a brand PPC campaign where okay, there was a click. My roas is going to be, you know, 1500% or whatever that might be. I think it's very important for hoteliers to get their mind out of that space and think of it a little bit branding and a little bit direct response, having things like the pro codes, making sure every link that they have is tracked. You'll be able to see if there's traction. But I mean if you could lose, if you have the great usage rights, that means not only are you probably getting some bookings, but you also have that video, you have that social amplification for all the other things that you've done. It it's a little bit harder to quantify but you should be able to get your finger at least on the pulse of which direction it's going.

Speaker C: Exactly. Exactly. So again, uh, how I look at it, influencers and creators, it's not necessarily necessarily an ROI focused tactic, but I have to be ROI focused to be able to explain this to my partners. What results. The biggest thing for us to understand is the halo effect that influencers and creators can, can have and that lasting relationship. So we talked about how once I activate influencers creators, they create content. Does it just end well in reality? No, because we've got content now. I've got a content library that I can use for paid ads for the website for organic social media. But more importantly is they're posting and that is searchable content on these platforms that people can continuously find and explore. Um, I think I, I looked up the other day I was going to vacation, uh, to Dale hall of Tennessee and I was like top things to do in Tennessee around Lake and Dale Hollow and I found a video from 2020 that was up there that was still relevant of all the highlight spots and people are still adding comments saying how awesome it was when they went. This was a great recommendation. This was a great find. It is adding a, a way to move forward with amplification and consistent back trails uh, when you need them. It is a lead collector, uh, as well as a lead generator.

Speaker A: I love it. So, so Nick, one of the things that we promised our listeners is we always try to make sure we're leaving them with a punch list of action items that they can do. So I think I've learned a ton of from an influencer perspective. Mackenzie, I'm m assuming you've learned a little bit as well here.

Speaker B: Yes, this is a fun one.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it really was. Uh, and hopefully it's great for listeners. But I guess the final question is what are the three things that a hotelier can do right now to set themselves up for success moving forward with influencers?

Speaker C: The first recommendation I would make is create a short influencer Brief so that one pager. Let's really identify who we are, who you want to work with and what you're offering from a property and hotel aspect. The second aspect is understand why you want to work with influencers. We all want conversions, we all want heads and beds. But think a little bit more strategically on how we can activate influencers. If we need help with our content for ads, if we need to grow our email database based growth which we haven't even talked about. That's crazy. I should have mentioned that there's other ways for us to activate influencers and creators other than just on social platforms and growing followers. Contents return here. We want to really see how again we make influencers and creators a steroid for whatever weakness we have in our, in our marketing funnel here. The last uh, recommendation I would make is send five DMs today. Find five creators who posted about hotels like yours. Start the conversation, not the pitch, uh, and make them authentically excited to work with you and give them an experience that they can really share with their audience but more importantly an opportunity to show uh, your hotel space is worth the visit. Everything you see, let them, let them replicate that. Let them share this experience and how they had a great time at your guys's property and share that with their audience.

Speaker A: I mean I like that it's three things that you can actually get knocked out right now. They don't cost anything, but you're doing that groundwork that's going to really, really help you succeed in this space. I like what you mentioned there about understanding why you want to work with influencers. Because it's not like, oh, I have an influencer campaign. That's not the reason that you want to do this. And if you think about this in advance, even if you don't send the 5dms like you should be doing like Nick recommended, the next time an influencer comes to you, you have the tools to make a better decision if you want to work with that influencer. And I think, I think kind of you mentioned it with, you're not doing a sales pitch because this is a relationship. Right. You're authentically your property. The uh, influencers authentically wanting to travel to your property if you're incentivizing them with cash other than just like a stay or the experiences you're making it to where it's just uh, it's a, it's a transaction and not building that relationship and partner that Nick, you talked about earlier.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And, and when you're ready to scale your Influencers and expand that potential. Give your friends a joy by the call. That's all I'll say.

Speaker A: So I need you to actually say a little bit more about that, though. So I. You. You gave us a ton of information, information to kind of digest. Uh, people know how to find travel. Boom. They've been listening to us for. Since 2016, hopefully. But if they want to get in touch with Joy Byte or you, how would they do that?

Speaker C: Absolutely, you can find me on LinkedIn. Uh, feel free. It's, uh, Nick Escobar on LinkedIn. You can shoot me a message. Um, otherwise, go to our website. I mean, you can fill out a form, contact. I know I'll personally probably be the one that has a conversation with you, but let's dive in, let's explore. Explore where we can help and see if there's a fit for hotel space. Um, always happy to at least have a, A call and a conversation just to see what's, what's potentially out there.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I'll kind of, you know, shine a little sunshine on Joy Bite as well. We work with you guys all the time. So we're working on a major influencer program right now with one of our clients. And one thing I thought that was really crazy and amazingly impressive was one of the influencers did not hold up their end of the bargain with a client. They came to the property, they decided that they wanted to stay off property because they want to stay with a friend. They didn't, didn't deliver what was agreed upon in the way. Nick, you and your team jumped in, held that influencer accountable, adjusted your strategy, and made sure that the client in this case was made whole and kind of held the influencer's feet to the fire, to. The contract that they agreed to was incredible. And I don't think that a. If you're an independent hotelier, you're doing this on your own. That's a part of the equation that I don't think that you can manage on your own. You guys were phenomenal there, and I think it really did show the value of having someone who really knows what they're doing, jumping in and, uh, doing on your behalf.

Speaker B: Yes, I've cracked the code in this space, so I think that's super impressive as well. So kudos to you all.

Speaker C: This is truly like, this is a. Again, influencers and creators. It's truly the wild, wild West. And if you try to do it on your own, a lot of times you're, you're falling down different paths and it's tough to find the right influencers and vet the right amount of accounts so you can find the true winners of people who you think is going to actually move the needle for a brand, let alone do the negotiations and, and get the right setup for content usage rights, the amount of content, the right partnerships that we're trying to build for a property or hotel space. So that's something that we really focus in on. Um, we help take influencers and creators really to the next level and make sure that we are actually moving brands in the right direction and not getting lost in again, this la la land of what influencers and creators can be without the right super supervisions here.

Speaker A: I absolutely love it. So I know you mentioned checking you guys out on, um, LinkedIn, which is awesome. Your website is Joy byte. Com. It's J O Y B Y T E dot com. So check them out. Tons of really great case studies on there, examples of what you guys have done and everything you see. It's awesome because it shows actual results that was generated. If it's for a, you know, CPG brand, if it's for anything else, it's. I think you, you guys have, like Mackenzie said, you've kind of cracked the code on this one. So. So check out Nick and Joy Bite. You can check us out@ah, travelboom marketing.com if you have any questions specifically hit us up either on LinkedIn, reach out to McKenzie, reach out to myself, and most importantly, share the show. We really do appreciate it when we get comments. A, uh, lot of the meetings we've been sitting in lately, people have asked questions. I know John specifically, who's one of our clients, asked some questions that kind of led to this episode. So definitely appreciate that. So if you do have questions or you want to see specific episodes, let us know. We are here to serve the hotel community and that's exactly what we're trying to do. But. All right, Any, any parting words, Mackenzie, before we wrap this show up, other than the usual.

Speaker B: Do you want me to take that?

Speaker A: Yeah, do the usual.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, I don't have anything else. Um, I guess thank you to Nick. I'm super happy we could finally have you on, um, and kind of have a little reunion with our group. So I think this was a great episode. And yeah, thanks for joining. But with that said, Travel Boom is out.

Speaker A: Uh, love it, love it.

Speaker C: And stay tuned for the next Reddit names.

Speaker A: Love it. Bye. Bye.

Speaker B: Bye. Uh,

Speaker A: It.