What Modern Guests Truly Want | LowKey Podcast (ft. Danica Smith, MorningStar GX) #28

Speaker A: Hey there.

Speaker B: You're tuning in to Loki by Oki, our easygoing sessions for hotel professionals where we chat about industry trends, issues and solutions.

Speaker A: Well, hello, hello, hello, and welcome to yet another episode of Loki by Oki. My name is Clement Denarier and I'll be your host for this episode. And today's topic is what modern guests truly want. And I'm really, really pleased to be joined by one of my favorite people in the industry who is here. Who's here to, of course, talk about, um, the guest experience and what guests truly want. Um, CEO and founder of Morningstar GX. Ms. Guest Experience, the one and only Danica Smith. Welcome.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, hello. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, come on. Um, this has been in the making even before you guys started Loki, so I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker A: Thank you. And we really chatted about this podcast idea for so long, and finally we're actually making it.

Speaker B: And we were pioneers. We were so forward thinking back then.

Speaker A: Look at that. And look at us now.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And I'm so pleased that actually this time, um, I think we reversed the roles because you normally the one hosting and asking questions nowadays.

Speaker B: I know your technical setup has got me all nervous. I'm going to relax into it. No, but, um, I'm really excited to

Speaker A: be interviewed and you'll do absolutely great. So, Danica, please let us know why we should listen to you when it comes to guest experience. Introduce yourself a bit.

Speaker B: I feel like a little bit of a broken record, but as you know, I am obsessed with guest experience. But really, when it comes to guest satisfaction. So what's actually happening when the guest is on property, pre arrival and post date? And how is all of the technology innovation, what of the cool things happening, really m in that needle?

Speaker A: Interesting. What got you to be obsessed about guest satisfaction?

Speaker B: Uh, so going back many, many years ago, um, I'm an ex hotel marketer, so I was working for a UK independent hotel chain. One of Okie's clients, actually. And I was in head head office function in marketing, but based on property. So it was really cool to see the divide between head office and operations. And I think I really fell in love with ops on the ground. And at the time they had three London hotels and they were number 8, 5 and 12 best London hotels. And I stumbled across online reputation, which we're going back 2011, 2012, it was all about the book, direct strategy, how can we drive website traffic, website conversion. And I realized that actually on our TripAdvisor pages, the number of views that we were having was more than what the website was getting. So that was where I really understood the importance of guest satisfaction, on my reputation as a tool to really drive revenue. Mhm. And I've been saying beating the same drum, different variations for 15 years.

Speaker A: What I find amazing is that indeed you might have been, um, kind of bringing the same message across, but it was always, um, guest experience coupled with revenue. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Often we hear about guest experience either on a very operational level, uh, which becomes very tactical and very on property, um, or it's fluff, it's marketing, but you are managing to link it or trying to link it as much as possible to actions and revenue.

Speaker B: Yeah. And to try and close the bridge. And it's really interesting with the different cycles that we see. So I mean we had so many conversations post Covid. So you know, 2023, we, we saw so many revenue initiatives focusing on the pre sale, driving incremental revenue upsells. But then operationally with the staff shortages, just couldn't deliver. And what's interesting now in 2025 we're seeing the same kind of issue, but more with AI. So everybody's getting a little bit obsessed and distracted with the shiny new, you know, personalized guest experience. Seamless omnichannel guest communications. Try not chant guests guest communication strategy. And yet there's still that operational. Are you delivering guest satisfaction?

Speaker A: It's something about um, maybe the gap between the promise and the actual delivery of that promise. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And getting the right people in the room, you know. So if it is a revenue discussion, you know, make sure you've got somebody from every department in ops that's sitting around the table to make sure that operationally you can deliver whatever that strategy is. Whether it's personalization or whether it's upselling, it's so important that your team, you know, across that journey can deliver it.

Speaker A: So take us through maybe the last couple of years. Evolution, uh, have you seen guest expectation change a lot? Um, or not? What's the feeling there?

Speaker B: I mean the data, it's quite overwhelming to be honest. And I think, okay, this is very niche in terms of guest experience, guest satisfaction. This is all what I do and I'm overwhelmed. So it's really difficult for hoteliers and operators to keep on top of all the different trends. Um, but what we've seen in the last 612 months is really these unique experiences that guests are looking for. A huge rise in sleep retreats, a huge rise in water centric therapy, uh, you know, star Signs in Astronomy fmb. So it really is, doesn't matter what it is guests are looking for, it's something unique and then that really opens up what a guest experience looks like. Which is hard if I'm a hotel with less staff operating at great occupancy. But I'm running, when do I have the time to sit there and think what guest experience package shall I offer that's going to be unique and cut through the noise?

Speaker A: Yeah. And what makes me unique versus of course, other players and operators in the market.

Speaker B: And you know, if you're a typical four star, five star, city center hotel, you have a real mix of different guest segments, so you know what your corporate guests are going to want. It's very different to your leisure, the different ages. So that's also really overwhelming. So we know guests are looking for something unique, something that speaks to me, something that emotionally connects to me. But again, it's really difficult operationally to deliver that kind of guest experience.

Speaker A: So you're talking about potentially the gap or the difference that there is between, um, what guests actually want and potentially what hotels think they want. Um, take us through what you've seen is some of the, of misconceptions around that.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, there's lots of different ways. Let's take sustainability, for example. You know, lots of hotels, it's great at jumping on the importance of sustainability. We know it's important to guests. We still don't really know how much they're willing to pay for it. But at the moment, you know, hotels think, okay, I've got that tick box. I'm giving the guests what they want by offering a come and have a free drink at the bar if you hang up your towels during the stay. Well, one, what tends to happen, and it happened to me yesterday, is actually the housekeeper comes and still gives you new towels regardless, regardless of what you've just done. And actually booking.com's research showed that 58% of their website, um, traffic, huge amount, is looking for real innovation when it comes to sustainability. So again, my expectations regarding sustainability is here. That's, that's not cool. If you give me a free drink, I want to see behind the scenes, I want to know about the solar panels, I want to go up to the rooftop bar and see the beehive, whatever it is. So, and that's just one example of sustainability. It's the same with F and B. It's the same with all the different guest experiences. The guest expectations for something different is just so really difficult to Deliver that.

Speaker A: How can hoteliers and close the gap? Because it seems like some initiatives are good, maybe not good enough, while on the other side, gas expectations keep on rising. So how can I tell us so?

Speaker B: I think it's a so. And again, this is really theoretical and I think it works in theory. I don't know how you can implement this practically, unfortunately, but I think it is pre Covid. You would often see the hotel leaders taking the day out of the office, taking the day out of operations to whiteboard, you know, get a meeting room, decide who we are, what we are, what do we want to stand for, what do we want to do, Map the guest journey that's needed. I don't know practically if that's happening, if there's time and space for that to happen. But I think that's really how you start to close the gap is to really bring your business leaders across all functions around the table and decide, okay, what do we want to do? What can we test different areas? You know, there's a lot of dead space in the hotel room. Um, you know, if you have an indoor swimming pool, why not try and do a floating yoga sound bath session? You know, do you have time to be split test that. So I think it's really a resource issue that stopping that innovation and I

Speaker A: guess resource finding and um, sometimes indeed kind of, um, doing it Right. It's not just about having these ideas, but also implementing them. Yeah, maybe finding that kind of small incremental, um, and experiments you can do.

Speaker B: Yeah. And just start somewhere. And again it comes back to the staff. And I really appreciate this depends on what kind of hotel you are. It really works well if you're an independent boutique and you have, you know, a much kind of less stress ops. But just talk to your guests. You know, if you see a repeat guest come in and you're like, okay, Danica, this is your third time staying with us. Would you like to see anything different and try and just have those open conversations? But I appreciate that's not realistic when you've got 20 people to check in ah. On a Friday morning.

Speaker A: And the first thing is of course to recognize that that guest is also a repeat guest versus not.

Speaker B: Oh, this is my biggest pain. But yes. Yeah, it's like we have the technology really cool pre stay, you know, WhatsApp messages or, you know, really targeted communication. And then I arrive and it's like, hi, is this your first time? Like, you just sent me a WhatsApp message saying, welcome back 12 hours ago. No, it's not my first time.

Speaker A: Ah. And of course, repeat businesses, repeat guests is only one segment. Um, are you seeing, um, differences when it comes to other segments? Right. In terms of needs and expectations. Um, one direction that we could take this is for, uh, example, generational.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think with the. And again, super overwhelming to stay on top of it. So we know when it comes to, let's take technology and digitalizing the guest journey, we know gen Z and millennials, 63% for example, would rather check in online. So I think there's a bit of assumption around targeting that segment when it comes to digitalizing the guest journey, looking at digital communications. But ultimately, you know, on the other end, I look at my 70 year old dad. He spends 10 hours a day on Facebook, you know, so I think it really is, um, not falling into the easy traps. But maybe that's a good starting place. And, but again, the testing and trialing, because I think different segments have different needs. I mean, look at us when we travel. I have five different guest preferences in my life. I'm traveling with my girlfriends, I want an espresso martini. If I'm with my husband, I want a nice wine. If I'm with my kids, I want a strong coffee. So it's. And sometimes there are some really cool brands that deliver things you don't even know that you want as a guest. And that's really. In which I think is exciting when it comes to like the wellness, um, you know, and the really far advancements there of being able to go to a hotel and having your blood checked and you know, having an IV drip, that's not something that I would maybe be looking for. But when I see that as an Instagram advert, I'm like, oh, this could be a fun girls weekend away. So again, it's also maybe delivering a guest experience that maybe the guest doesn't even know that they want.

Speaker A: Yeah. And again, we kind of get back to the overwhelming piece because right now you just said, okay, um, please recognize me, but also surprise me. And also I can be very different than the guest that I was last week because the circumstances, the context of my travel are completely different. Yeah, it's a lot.

Speaker B: It's a lot. It really is a lot. And you know, and that's just looking at it from a guest experience point of view, not, you know, how do I then deliver that, how do I capture those preferences, how do I store that information? So I think it is overwhelming. We do have the technology to help kind of make, streamline a lot of these Initiatives a bit more efficient. It's just been a bit more creative. Maybe if you are an independent brand. I think this is where the book direct strategy can go.

Speaker A: And so let's take this um, a bit practically. Right. Um, today hotel teams have tools in place. Right. But how would you say, um, these teams should maybe start uh, and try to deliver um, this genuine care at the skill that they can because obviously, um, the resources are still limited.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, so what would you say is kind of a good starting point here?

Speaker B: So I think this comes back to the same conversation that we've been having post Covid. Unfortunately to still bring it back to that is staff like making sure your staff are happy, making sure they're empowered, making sure that they're supported. If you have happy staff and give them the freedom to then really be them true selves, you know, really be adaptive and relaxed enough to meet the different guests and react into the, the different scenarios that's ahead of them. So I think focusing on your staff engagement, staff retention, staff care, staff well being, you know, I think as an industry we still forget there's a lot of mental health issues in our industry. There's a lot of financial stress, a lot of pressures and it's kind of like AI conversations have just worked out that part of how we need to focus and care for our team. So I think that's really important. And then there are different uh, training as well that I think we were talking about. Citizen Microsoft, um, I remember when I went to stay at their property, you know, they really make sure that their staff can have that emotional intelligence. So if you see a businessman walking into the lobby, you know, with suitcases, you know, you can assume he's here for one or two, you know, a long stay. So then that's different if he's with a backpack, you know, so those kind of like, you know, I mean I'm not in operations, but I'm sure many of your listeners know more of these examples. But making sure you've got that emotional intelligence to be able to read somebody and try and suss their situation before you interact with them and then be flexible in how you interact with that

Speaker A: guest so that EQ and then right after the empowerment of doing something right, because if you have um, this recognition of a certain type of guest, but you can't do much with it because your sops are so strict that actually there is nothing that really has a front escage and you can do um, this, this doesn't provide a genuine guest experience either.

Speaker B: No and if I think if you are a human and you're not allowed to use your EQ and you're not allowed to flex those muscles, then you might as well just digitalize that whole pre arrival arrival and have you know, a seamless human, human less approach. Um, because it's wasted. You're just going to have unhappy uh, staff and a huge headcount if you're not going to invest in your staff that way.

Speaker A: M. So power to the people. Um, and how would you.

Speaker B: The people. Yes.

Speaker A: And obviously, um, for these people to be empowered and to feel like they can actually um, make a difference, there is probably some tasks that need to be taken over by technology. Right. Um, so how would you say is a good balance between the world of, of everything human or the world of everything tech?

Speaker B: Yeah, it has to be. Well actually I was about to say it has to be hybrid, but it doesn't. You know, there are some brands like Numa hotels that are doing it fantastically where it's a little bit hybrid but it's mainly, you know, autonomy across the journey. What is important is there's some like basics here. It needs to be seamless. So if you are going to start bringing in the technology to digitalize the guest journey, then it needs to flow. Second of all, you know your rates, you know, I think it works very well if you are a three star property. But really if, if you have a really high adr, you know, there's no bots that can give me and deliver uh, that guest experience that I'm looking for. So it comes back to who you are as a brand and also what kind of guests. You know, as a, when I travel corporate, I love online check in. I always do online check in. I would never do it if I was paying for it myself. I want to talk to the reception, I want to know what's going on

Speaker A: in the neighborhood and I think that that's so interesting because next to kind uh, of making a choice and maybe strategizing on yes I want hybrid or yes I want a motec or more, more human approach as a hotel. Right. It's also about sharing that. Right. Actually explaining that and setting these expectations to the guest that um, well, I have great staff, I have a great team and they're empowered to flex those muscles as you said. Um, well, I think it really matters for the guests to also know and maybe choose one property over another because indeed they want to actually speak and have a great chat. Um, even if it's a chit chat with the Receptionist when they come in.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I think for hoteliers, I mean, when you look at that kind of hybrid approach, who are the experts here? It is the tech vendors. So I think it's really important that you have that partnership with your tech vendors and kind of say, like, help me with this strategy. You know, at what point should it be human? At what point should it be digital? At what point in the guest journey should I allow the guests to choose and really push back on the tech vendors to bring that partnership and, and help strategize? Because the hotels just don't have A, the time and B, not their field, it's not their knowledge. So I think that's also really important, um, for the vendors to support the implementation in that strategy of what it looks like.

Speaker A: When we, um, started this, this podcast, we talked about this bridge between guest satisfaction and revenue. Um, I think for a lot of, uh, a lot of hoteliers, it's still very tough to actually see that, that bridge, um, and that link. Yeah, um, what is a great example that you could share with our listeners, um, of direct impact on revenue from an extra focus on guest satisfaction.

Speaker B: I mean, there's so many data points now, uh, just go into ChatGPT and say, what is the direct correlation between guest satisfaction on revenue, even on profit now as well, we've got data points, but, you know, there's the good old famous Canal University study with CG Review Pro. And you know, still, maybe the exact numbers aren't the same, but we know for every 1% increase in guest satisfaction equals 0.8 0.89% in occupancy and 1.4% in RevPAR. Um, so it is really about moving that needle. But what we have spoke about for such a long time and what I love is being able to monitor that. So let's take what Okie's doing. You know, there's fantastic ways for your clients, which I know many of your clients are ready to, uh, are doing to be able to actually understand. Okay, how did that not only drive revenue in the fantastic metrics there, but how did that improve the guest satisfaction? How did that improve my online reputation? And then being able to close that gap? And it's really easy to do. We have the tools there. Just not many hoteliers have that at the forefront of the mind when it comes to implementing hotel tech. How did it improve guest satisfaction but with the revenue? Um, and I love it when the clients that we've both worked together see, okay, yeah, here are the revenue metrics. But what other KPIs should I be looking at are, um, my guests more satisfied or not? And you know, 10 times out of 10 they were.

Speaker A: We can't, Danica, we can't talk about guest satisfaction and what modern guests really want without talking about loyalty as a concept. Um, and there I'd love to hear from you. Um, I think there is many reports and studies that are starting to prove this. But, um, um, it seems like the traditional kind of point based programs m. That are just more reward programs. And loyalty programs don't cut it anymore.

Speaker B: No. And again, the research there skifts. Research. Research showed us. I've got it here. 71% of travelers prefer loyalty programs offering some sort of emotional connection, something that resonates with me instead of a transactional point scheme. So again, I still don't know why hotels still have these old school point schemes. I do think the Space of Royalty is super fun and that's where you can get really creative. Maybe operationally I can't have, uh, you know, a sound bath because it doesn't work for noise control or whatever, but maybe I can partner up with a really cool yoga brand that does. So I think we need to take more of a leaf out of the retail landscape and look at what we can do there and be bold enough to offer loyalty partnership that's outside of my property. I don't need to keep my guests on property all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean the best guest experience. Um, and the second point with loyalty is payment side as well, you know, and like maybe look to give direct money back somehow. And so I think the loyalty space is really exciting. I'm excited to see what brands break the traditional barriers of hotels, you know, and we are behind the other industries when it comes to this. You know, like, if you have a really cool in room technology strategy, you know, why not give me a free, um, you know, Netflix month on my license? I don't know if that's possible.

Speaker A: I mean, why not?

Speaker B: That's the kind of thing that I would want to see if I was staying in a room that was like promoting the in room, you know, um, technological TV experience. That's a cool loyalty scheme.

Speaker A: It's cool. It's cool. And it's also different, again, kind of get back into unique, maybe something unexpected, um, that kind of sticks with the brand and the concept of the hotels that I have.

Speaker B: Yeah, nice.

Speaker A: Danica. I'd love for our listeners to come out of this with maybe just one specific item. What is one small change that you would say hotels can make today that would have a big impact on guest experience and guest satisfaction.

Speaker B: Make sure that guest satisfaction is an agenda point in every single meeting. It might just take 60 seconds, you know, but regardless of maintenance, to finance, to marketing, to, uh, GMs, to revenue, guest satisfaction needs to be an agenda point. How is this improving, changing, implementing, shifting guest, uh, satisfaction? And so make sure it's at the table of every conversation, because that's what we're here for, right? To make happy guests. So it should be in every single

Speaker A: meeting, happy guest, that means more revenue, that means more loyalty, and that means, of course, sustainability on the, on the

Speaker B: business itself, uh, and happy staff. So I'm doing a GM's conference for one of my clients and the person that's invited me, guess what role and what function they're from. And they said, danica, we want you to come and do a 60 minute session on service to our GM's HR.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: I love it. So she was like, danica, I really want to put a different spin about service and how important services to guest satisfaction and why our people are so important.

Speaker A: I mean, I could go on, uh, another two or three podcasts just about this, right?

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: Giving back hospitality to the hospitality workers. Why did they actually choose that direction in that track, uh, if it's not to provide amazing guest experience?

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think like we said earlier, we, we were really focused on that with the staff shortage issue in 2023 of our, uh, staff and how important they are. And I think as an industry, we've lost that. You know, like, if I look at the conferences I've attended this year, nobody's really spoke about staff satisfaction. So I would also like to bring staff empowerment back to the table.

Speaker A: Love it. Make hospitality sexy again.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly.

Speaker A: Here's the bell. All right, well, that means that we need to move on to the next section. Um, Danika, it's the shameless plug, so go for it.

Speaker B: You're going to think I'm really cheesy and corny, but my shameless plug is to really plug guest satisfaction. Like, please, hotel tech vendors, hotel operators, management companies, please bring back guest satisfaction to the forefront and make sure it is a KPI that your monitoring you're talking about. So that's my shameless plug.

Speaker A: Well, you're not called M Me guest satisfaction for nothing. That's how, that's how passionate you are about that topic. Amazing. Well, Danica, I want to thank you so, so much for, um, all your insights. This was very interesting. Um, we definitely went through a lot of different impacts that guest satisfaction can have. Also, it's not easy. It's not an easy job to actually make guests happy, especially with very changing expectations, um, and different guests in general that our hotels have to, uh, welcome. Um, this was episode 28 of Loki Byoki. Stay tuned.

Speaker B: Congratulations.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me.