EP 74: Roni Mazumdar

Speaker A: M.

Speaker B: Welcome to Hospitality on the Rise, the podcast about the people shaping the hospitality industry and their journeys. I'm your host, Alice Chang, founder and CEO of Culinary Agents Hospitality's go to hiring platform and I'm here to give you your dose of virtual mentorship. Here we'll be sharing the stories, lessons learned, and advice from hospitality leaders who've carved out their own path to success. After all, this industry is where many get their start and go on to do incredible things. Whether you're a pro starting out or just love the hustle, this podcast highlights what makes hospitality extraordinary. The people.

Speaker C: I'm so excited to have Rani Muzumdar here with us today. Rani is the founder and CEO of Unapologetic Foods here based in New York City, which includes amazing award winning restaurants including Stemma, Tamaka, Ada, Masala Walla and Sons, Kebab Walla, Rowdy Rooster, Brianny Bowl, Nax, and a new, uh, location which will be open by the time this airs. Um, sandwich. Um, Ronnie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker A: It's such a pleasure. I'm more excited to see the size of that mic. That's a serious microphone. Oh my God.

Speaker C: We really try to be legit in our little operation.

Speaker A: This is very legit. I'm like, oh my God, I don't even have headphones on. But here we are. It's good.

Speaker C: Uh, one day I'll show you the studio and you'll see why I'm laughing. But, um, anyway, um, so, Ronnie, I'm also very excited for a couple reasons, because every time I've seen you talk on stage or on a panel, you have this energy that, um, is so infectious. Um, and I can only imagine, um, what pre shift is like with you. But, um, rolling it back, how did you get started in hospitality?

Speaker A: Um, um, God, I, I, I know, I was ha. We want to take a little trip back down to memory lane.

Speaker C: Yes. Do it.

Speaker A: You know, I, um, my father was retiring and I thought, I just didn't want my dad to feel old. So I thought it would be fun to open up a small little restaurant for him and have, and make sure that he has that sense of life was a whole reason of how I got into the industry. I grew up believing, like, restaurants were almost these external entities that you go to, you dine at and food, how you eat is. There's a big divide between the two. And growing up in a middle class family, never thought that owning a restaurant was a possibility. Going out itself was a nice treat in many ways. So it was really around the time when my dad was retiring, more so than not. That a lot of many ways, Asian immigrants, et cetera, they go through life a lot of hurdles, and at some point, it's not fair when they start to feel obsolete. And I knew my father and, um, who he was. I asked the question, what would he have wanted to do? And because by that time, it was working. So I thought in whatever I could gather from my credit cards, you know, let's open up something small. And that is where the entire idea of, why is there a hierarchy in food? Why is it that we look at different cuisines through different lenses? Why is it that from, um, price point to justification of how it is should be changes from one cuisine to another shouldn't all be equal. We all be equal around the dinner table? And that kept on coming to my mind that I've worked with my father side by side. Grandmastic learned so much about hospitality from him. But I knew one thing that the next step is that there might be an opportunity to change the way how we are perceived, not just as a cuisine, but as a people behind that cuisine. And that's when I teamed up with Chef Chintan, started building the craziest of ideas together. He's crazier than me, luckily. And here we are talking to each other.

Speaker C: I love it. I love it. And I'm going to dig deeper in there because I feel like there are some pretty fun stories, uh, hidden and some gems in there. Um, I particularly like when you were saying my father was retiring, and then I think I saw somewhere that, you know, that he was working, working as well in the restaurants there. It's like, you're gonna retire. Let's find another career for you.

Speaker A: I love that. I. I don't know if my father knew, like many other, probably, like, Asian, South Asian immigrant parents. I. I don't know if he knew how to really sit still. And that's what that was, the whole point. I think it was a more of a sense of purpose and being obsolete that was kind of keeping him up at night. Because all of our lives, we go through thinking like, you outwork everything in your life. And I think that was a big thing for my father and more. So hospitality meant a lot. I think I've grown up seeing this man meet someone on a train, bring him home, and it's like one in the morning, which is completely normal for India, by the way. And actually, maybe not okay. It's not normal for India either, and be like, oh, my God, look who we met and let's cook up something. There's my mom figuring out, like, it is one in the morning. I would jump up. Cause it's like, oh, my God, maybe I'll go to school late tomorrow. But it created this entire opportunity, and we built lifelong friends that way. And it all revolved around food and the dining experience. So, you know, I. I think somewhere he never had a chance to really explore who he really wanted to be. And I thought as a son, maybe there was a way to find that.

Speaker C: I love that. And you were, um. You're a career changer. You're a career changer. So throughout, you know, leading up this, you were working in the corporate America, if you will.

Speaker A: I was. I was a good immigrant boy, right? It was good. I used to be okay once in a while, but, uh, then took a turn for the dark side.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: And when you opened your first restaurant, were you like, what is this? What's going on here? Because it's one thing to enjoy cooking and, you know, hospitality. And then when you get into. When you shift to, like, opening a restaurant, um, oftentimes people are like, wait, I didn't know what I was getting into. How was that experience for you?

Speaker A: No, I really. I truly enjoyed it myself. I think there was this exhilarating aspect of meeting the guests, changing the way how their evening might be. And there was actually, like, finding magic. And there was something truly magical in the hospitality space that I never could have seen unless it was that decision for my father that I was making. But I felt exhilarated but also disappointed somewhere that I wish it was a little bit different. So rather than running away from the problems, I have a tendency, uh, to go head on towards that. So I thought rather than running away and calling out what's working, what's not working. There's. Every industry has challenges, but just because we think it's a tech industry, life's perfect. No, it's not. Let's look at the finance industry. I think the biggest difference is that in many ways, in our industry, our margins are much tighter, which makes decision making in the earlier days much more difficult until you have reached a certain level of scalability. And that's what makes the journey that much more difficult for many. But the reward is equally the same. It's just as exciting meeting the guests who came in, you know, uh, and there are guests who met each other at the restaurant and eventually continued to come, because then they had babies and they would come in with the babies. It was a true neighborhood restaurant. And that's the environment that I was lucky to see my father build. And I've learned a lifetime of hospitality from my dad.

Speaker C: Yeah. So at what point? Um, I love that, too, because I think early experiences definitely. You know, I would imagine you're also learning throughout this process. Right. Um, because you've gone on to build, uh, your empire. And. And I love how it's called unapologetic foods. Right. And it makes so much sense, you know, as you're introducing and you unapologetically are like, this is the cuisine. These are the flavors. Let me introduce this to you in a different way, in my way. Um, how did you. Were you. When you were going through your first operation, were you already thinking about, like, building this empire and having, you know, different brands within it, Just living in the moment, you know?

Speaker A: Okay, fine. I shouldn't say not at all. Um, maybe somewhere in the back of my mind, we all hope for it. Right. We all want to, but you don't really know if it will ever become a, um, reality or not. So I think a faint sense of hope was always there. Yes. Um, I wouldn't call anything an empire. I think it's a group of restaurants that we have built up. I would have been so fortunate to see even one restaurant, quote, unquote, succeed. People showing up. My father and I, we would worry on, like, a Friday night, are we going to have enough people to fill the seats? And, uh, those were the early days, right? The fear, the insecurities, the challenges. And just then slowly start to build something and be like, oh, wow, there's a line. Wait a minute. And going from there into that whole experience of where Adainy and Kentimas in Long Island City is so, so incredibly difficult. And I think when you get that, it was something else that crossed my mind. It was more so I felt that New York gave us a chance. What am I going to do with this? How am I going to respond to this? It wasn't so much of, like, all right, I have these five concepts that we're going to build up. It was a narrative. It was an idea that for once, took hold, and I felt anchored. I felt seen in many ways. I don't think as an immigrant, there was a question of self worth to see. Was it really is our cuisine in its own way, not in a different way? In its own way, is it really worth being at the same table with everybody else? And I think when you grow up, never seeing that happen, you believe that's the reality. So as a boy, that's what I kept believing that that was it. So I was hoping that, oh, my God, one day it would be amazing if we get to be in the same room to have a conversation. Then another day I figured out you don't need to be in any room, you create the room. But that's part of growing.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you, you not only created the room, you changed the conversation, you know, completely, I would say, and opened it up into different directions. So when you were opening up, um, uh, what came first? I feel like you opened several in the same year, but there was still a sequence.

Speaker A: It wasn't absolute madness.

Speaker C: Take us, take us through the planning. I mean, you're a very organized, uh, um, you know, framework driven person. Take us through the planning. There must have been a strategy here.

Speaker A: Um, I wish I could come up with an amazing story that there was. There wasn't. It was actually the strategy was to build success, was breeding success in many ways. I don't think if that first ada, uh, in Long Island City wasn't what it was. I'm not sure if we would have the guts to say, let's create a dhamaka. Oh, my God, now let's go push even harder and create, you know, Sema. Now let's go take a completely different turn. Each time was a different set of challenges we were picking up. But there was a bigger story. I understood one thing very clearly, is that as a cuisine, there's a hierarchy that we're sitting on. And two, there's an incredible level of misunderstanding or myths that exist around what these grand cuisines of the world are. And I can say that about Chinese, I can say that about Indiana. These are some of the oldest, grandest cuisine yet. We have boxed them in in about just 10 dishes and said, I know everything about it. No, we don't. I still to this date, do not claim that I know anything about Indian food. And I'm learning every single day it's not a singular country. It is a cluster of so many different cultures and flavors coming together, languages. It's like taking all of Europe, shoving it together and saying, what if this was a country? How do we justify that? And that's what has happened with something that's Indian cuisine. And I think there was a deep seated desire to say, I wish one day people would know the diversity, the dynamic, the dynamic element of what created this cuisine. I wish people would know that there are differences and similarities. And I think that was a driving force in many ways. And I think as I looked at that whole Conversation of hierarchy. I think I realized there was a hierarchy within our own cuisine itself, and there was a way to break that. And the only way to break that is by exposing the world to it and showcasing an amazing version of each of them. So that's what drove the story. I think the plan was, for once, it wasn't an engineering side of the brain. I think engineering side of the brain looks on the business side to optimize things to grow. Those are different areas. But the instinctual. There's a part of it that is so emotional where we all start. And I think so many of us suppress that very voice that we have within. It's a really powerful voice. I bet that's why you started your business. It's the same reason why we're both talking to each other. And I have so much respect for you for taking the chances that you have, but that wasn't a calculated, perfect Excel sheet business decision. Something somewhere told you that you should do it. And I think somewhere that was a voice I was simply following. And I think that's where the magic lies.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. And you're absolutely right. I mean, you mentioned if you didn't have that initial success, you don't know if all of these other things would have followed. Right. And I think some of it is following your gut instincts. Some of it is meeting the right people and bringing them into your orbit and taking risks, pulling on that creativity and your knowledge and your experience, um, and then going for it. Right. And, um, listening to the audience you're giving people, you know, they were responding a certain way to what you were putting out there. And that is both motivating, it's also educational. Um, and that can really kind of open up the dialogue in a completely different direction.

Speaker A: You know, I think it was different in many ways because it wasn't us trying to sell an idea to any. What was different in this case was I think people were attracted to the very notion that here were a couple of guys who felt liberated enough to simply follow their voice. And I think too many of us, the world we live in, are sometimes we're all craving to do the same. And I think it was something that was much more than food that happened without, uh, academic foods. I think it was the. The narrative. It was. I think it was the essence behind why these restaurants were being created. I think it was a moment of feeling liberated for once. And I think as others saw that they wanted to be a part of that conversation. It wasn't nobody Showed up. I always share this with, uh, a measuring stick and said, you know, I think this is 10% better than the other place. Actually. None of us eat it that way. We tend to believe that that's not true at all. I think it's an emotion that drives us to that conversation. And food has the power to truly change the world. It has changed my life. It has changed many ways, our very city and the country. And I think that is the power that we're playing. How do you. You no longer have to go out there so much seeking for the right individual, because you're putting out a certain energy. It attracts a certain energy as well. And by the way, no, it wasn't the first one wasn't, uh, such a resounding success. It was our second restaurant. When Chef Chintan and I started working. Our first restaurant was a place in the West Village called Rahi. And Rahi was doing well, but it wasn't an Adda. Adda was the first nationally acclaimed restaurant. Food and wines top 10, uh, New York Times top 10. None of that was the case. It was. We were running a good restaurant, and we were okay with that. But I think for the first time in Ada, uh, be it the location, be it being in the outskirts, having the cost structure a little more manageable gave all of us an opportunity to take a chance and more. So the credit goes to Chef Chinta. I think, you know, we're a partner. We have now been working together for a decade. But I think for him to really step in and say, you know what, Ronnie, we had our disagreements. He was the one who said, no, this is the direction we need to go. And he had an incredible conviction towards it. And I'm like, I was genuinely scared. I was like, dude, if this doesn't pan out, like, we really had no foundation for anything. But not only did it pan out, um, that's when the lines around our restaurants started as instilled. And that's where I think the true genesis of what is unapologetic.

Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. And, you know, I'll rattle off a couple of things that I'm sure, you know, our listeners will most likely know, but not to this extent. Um, you know, 2026 demo is number seven food and wines top ten US restaurants. You had number one New York Times best restaurants. And, uh, in New York, um, Demaca was also included in that list. Uh, Sema and Demaka, you know, just racking up accolades left and right. Um, how are you? You know, obviously, when we. When we work with businesses we look at like, awards and accolades are just one way to recognize, you know, work in a restaurant, et cetera, and a good excuse to celebrate. Um, but undeniably, it also, you know, increases awareness, invisibility, potentially put more butts in seats. Right. How is that, you know, as you're. As you are gaining these. These accolades and words, and you continue to. To get them, how is that affecting, you know, your thinking around the team, the growth opportunities that you're providing?

Speaker A: I look at two things. I look at. My metric of success is if I've been able to transform an evening or a few hours for a guest, and if I've been able to impact the lives of the people who in the very idea that we believe in. So I'll give you a perfect example. Um, Tina was a bar back. Um, Tina Doelker is one of, um, is right now just got promoted to be, um, a hospitality manager across the company. Someone I'm personally so proud to see. And she's an incredible leader. I learned things for part. I deeply trust her at our end states. But there was an opportunity and growth that happened within the company. So when I look at my biggest reward, what is it that I'm thinking about? Are examples to say, wow, that's somebody who truly has been able to transform themselves as being a part of this vision. I take no credit for it. She has done it herself. She has contributed to where the company is today. Take a look at someone like. Chef Eric Valdez was our employee number one during COVID It was a real struggle for all of us. And Eric was a chef de cuisine. And I'll never forget where I started to get to know Eric. He's a man of very few words. And I remember having a conversation where we said, you know, Eric, like, we want you to grow. We want you to see the world out there, and we understand it's difficult sometimes. Why don't we set up an allowance for you to go out there and experience certain restaurants? Give us the check and we'll take care of it maybe like once or twice a month, and that should be fine. He says, sure. Two months go by. I haven't really talked to him about it. I have no idea. I see, like, I walk into the kitchen, and right under the expo station, there's a mini fridge. So I said, oh, uh, when did we get this? He's like, oh, I got it. I'm like, what do you mean, you got it? He's like, it's the allowance that I know we needed a Fridge. I'm just saying you can't make it up. You can't fake that. There's a reason why Eric Valdez today is a partner in this company he's running. So proud of nux. Today we're opening sandwich with him. I mean, this is no longer an employee. This is someone who has that kind of pride and ownership. It's not even he's a Filipino heritage. It's not that because he was Indian, he understood that. He understood the bigger picture. But was it really about that $250 or was the conversation something different? Who do we stand next to? I think to me, those are some of the most incredible examples. And that would be technically, if he was employee number one. Could be finished of almost a decade. Most people in this industry think it's about titles. It's about jumping from one glorified title to the next and earning the next $5,000. Those are short term Band Aid solutions. From a career standpoint, what is transformational is to really build trust and a sense of community, truly believe in each other. That's when the, the seismic shifts happen from a career standpoint. And those are some of the examples from Tina being a hospitality manager, overseeing the entire portfolio of restaurants, to Eric, 10 years in, is now a partner. I mean, what more could I be proud of?

Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. You gave me a little, little chills,

Speaker A: you know, dude, I, I, I got chills at that. I swear to God. This is not somebody who was, if I never asked him, I would have never known, believe me. And those are little moments I will never forget for the rest of my life.

Speaker C: Yeah. And, you know, we hear a lot of, um, uh, you know, the word culture and like, you know, working for certain restaurants and what cult, you know, what culture does that particular work environment have? And that these are examples of, you know, you know, how culture permeates. You know, that's a, it's a frame of thinking. It's um, you know, this ownership mentality. It's leadership. Recognizing and, you know, rewarding is not the right word, but recognizing and um, taking action, uh, to, you know, to cultivate that, to cultivate that, that thinking, that team. It's, um, you know, my long way of saying, you know, wow, it's nothing, but it's, And I know you're not trying to, you know, you're not trying to wow me, right? You're just. And nothing. That's what's adding to it is this is genuine. You're just telling me a story, right? And I think A lot of. A lot of these stories. And, and these stories, I'm sure there's more of them if you actually asked within your organization. Right, I'm sure, I'm sure you can have all these stories. Um, but. But oftentimes, you know, from a, From a, A business, a growth, a leadership standpoint, um, you want to be around long enough so that these stories, uh, make it to the surface, and you want that to continue to fuel. You know, I feel like restaurants and owners and chefs and service folks are constantly getting asked from every direction to support, Support the community, support. And you're naturally already there kind of, um, contributing just, you know, to wherever you physically are. Not only creating jobs, but also probably, um, you know, supporting causes and, um, helping other folks do things. Um, and the stories about how the individuals in the organization benefit as well. I like when those get highlighted. Um, and it's one of the reasons why I love these conversations.

Speaker A: But we have, uh, a responsibility towards each other. By, uh, no means are we a perfect company. Nobody is. But if you're not able to listen to the very people who truly believe in him, believe in an idea that what are we doing all this for? Then it's just a transaction. Then it's just a job. And I'm not here to judge anyone. I'm not here to see who's doing it right. All I know is how we want to do it. And, um, all I know is I didn't tell Eric to be the way he was. I didn't ask Tina to be the way she is. They genuinely understood. They brought something to the conversation, and that's what created this entire, uh, hierarchy. Do you think I've ever had a conversation with Eric from out of raise? Never. Never had it. So that's why he's a partner, because he never defined himself with a certain dollar value. So he went into a completely different category. And a lot of workers today don't. A lot of younger people today might not fully understand that because we're all afraid a little bit. I don't blame them. You know, they're thinking, oh, my God, um, I'm here, I could make five bucks here more or ten bucks here more. That is, depends on the company. I feel that once you find your home, you should hold on to it, protect it. Only then at home gets better, and you get your own room. You get your own living room, and you get to. That's how a mansion is built in our industry. That's the beginning of a mansion. It's not really Just around like me, I'm here slogging away. I deserve the least amount of credit in all of this. Like I said, thank Eric's mother for who he has become.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, hey, kudos to uh, you and the leadership team for recognizing and taking action. Right? Because it is a two way street. You can be in a situation if you're in the wrong organization, wrong meaning not what you're looking for as a worker, as an individual, um, and perhaps not a good fit, um, but there could be times where um, for whatever reason, uh, you're doing your thing and leadership uh, is not recognizing or not coaching or not mentoring. Um, so I think the great, what I talk about often now is that there's a lot of information out now that wasn't available years ago. And I think for individuals who are looking for jobs, for careers, really want to do something in this industry and work with an organization that aligns with, you know, what they want to do and what they believe in. They can do their homework and uh, and try, try to uh, to connect with them.

Speaker A: So can I clarify something for a second is that you mentioned mentoring and coaching and I think my definition and what the conventional wisdom is a little bit different. And I think in many cases it's important to understand what that means. In the examples that I've gave, I have not personally sat there and encouraged them and become that, that you must do this. This is the way we're going to go. It was done in silence. It wasn't. There's a lot of expectations when we use the word coaching and mentoring. It comes through that I'm gonna walk into this room, this person's gonna give me this.

Speaker C: That's not.

Speaker A: We're still going back to a transaction. Nobody. I can motivate you all I want, you still have to want. And I think the really critical piece, on the flip side, as younger operator, it's really important to acknowledge and understand our business is built by people like every single business in the world. So if you are not taking the time, uh, knowledge and recognize who's bringing in what kind of talent, more than talent. I look at integrity over talent any day. I'm okay to work with somebody who might make a few extra mistakes. But to me integrity is the most important factor that I can't teach you. That is something that you have to teach yourself and you have to coach yourself on. And so I think when we talk about coaching and mentoring, I want to demystify that it's uh, not something that we have A program. And this is how we sit. It's truly the level of respect for each other. And I think it's a two way street. The person who's an employee sees us in a different light, and we see them in a different light. And both parties have to come together for it to work.

Speaker C: You're absolutely right. Um, you know, I'm going to segue into the fact that you are very busy, so thank you for making time for this.

Speaker A: Please.

Speaker C: You have a lot of locations. Um, you have a very large team and you're growing. How do you keep yourself kind of balanced and inspired?

Speaker A: God, I used to struggle with this a lot. I used to believe. I still do. Secretly. I don't tell my wife this. I think I. There's a race car driver named Mario Andretti who said that if you're still in control, it means you're not going fast enough. That was a properly. But no, as you grow a little bit older. I'm in my 40s now. It's a little bit different. It's actually. I have learned that it's important at time to say no to things, not for the sake of it. I was taking this past weekend, there was an event that was happening in New York, and the organizer of the event personally invited me to say, would you please come? Um, but at that time, I already committed that I would take my son for the soccer game that he was supposed to go for. Now the Asian entrepreneur in me will immediately say, hey, mom, dad, you know, wife, whoever, somebody nanny, come on, somebody take the kid. It's okay, I'll. We'll do it. And I'm not trying to create a typical, you know, father son conversation, but the question is, I think I lack the ability to say no in the past. And I think the growth that has happened is that today I was perfectly proud to say, you know what? That's the night I've actually committed. Let's catch up at a different time. And it's totally fine. But I think it roots from a level of insecurity, fear that one needs to let go of, uh, as we grow older or as we learn the industry. Why, why would someone be fearful of that? Because they would think that opportunity will never arrive again. That's what we're fearful of. Not the opportunity itself. But once you understand that, uh, maybe not only that opportunity, but something even better might arise. Because today I was committed to one thing and I've done it right. Tomorrow I'm going to commit to the next thing and I'm going To do that right, you can't be everywhere at the exact same time. And one of the biggest mistakes we as entrepreneurs make is that we end up making the entire journey about ourselves. We become the protagonist. And I think that's a mistake. In Metamask, I am not the protagonist. The guests are. The team members are. We all are. A, uh, collective show that we're putting together, and that's the orchestra that one must create. Now, when you are the protagonist, you need to be everywhere. But I'm just as proud to say, here's a team member that attended. There's a few team members who attended that event. I'm equally proud for that. It's not a slight on anyway. But I think as those insecurities slowly fade and you start to grapple with the reality of who you are, it's very important to know that I'm not able to do that well. Therefore, don't do it. And if you are, commit wholeheartedly and go get it done. There's a recent charity that we, as a group, raised a million dollars for and build. It's for City Harvest. You'll hear about it soon. And I'm so proud of that. But you know what I'm more proud of? We could have walked away and say, you know, we raised about, like, 600,000, and not a big deal, but it's something as a group we really committed to. So therefore, instead of just backing away at that 600, we're like, how do we push harder to get this number to at least hit a million? No personal gain in that regard, but I think if whatever you're committing to, can you truly commit? And if you are not, you must have the courage to take a step back.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: That's how the time is managed, I guess.

Speaker C: I love that. And then when you take a step back, you realize you're creating opportunities for, as you said, you know, team members, other folks to step up and experience or attend or represent.

Speaker A: But it's so scary, isn't it, when it. No, it's so scary. Yeah. Uh, that's what. It's the fear. We all grow up with the idea that nobody will be able to do anything as good as me. And it's the worst possible belief system that we have. I believe every single person in this company should be able to do what I do better than them in each of their respectively. Chef Chintan is a better chef than me any given day. That's the point. Chef Vijay. And you can, Chef Neil. You can look at all the chefs you can look at all the front of house managers. Every single person in that sense is better than me. And I'm so excited by that idea. It doesn't have to be. Our fear comes from. I started a little mom and pop shop that was barely 28 seats. I had to do everything. I was doing delivery, I was doing, you know, shattering my phones while I'm on a bike because the delivery guy didn't show up. I had to learn how to be better at something. But that is not the way to build future of any business. And I think this is why team members resources are that critical. And we shouldn't be insecure about the fact that what if the person is better than me? That's fantastic. That's what you aspire for. And I think in some way it's a choice that you make. Therefore you end up, you must be in the dining rooms at all points. I'm very little in the dining room these days because I believe there are wonderful team members who are there who are doing equally, if not a better job. But it's a feel good moment for us as entrepreneurs, isn't it? I'm shaking the hands, I'm taking a picture with someone. I think one needs to know. I'm being very dead honest with you. That is exactly what draws us back in and it's important. But what is more important if five years later, I'm still the one shaking hands in the dining room, or five years later, I've been able to grow and build an organization that I can really be proud of, that can actually help other people elevate themselves. I pick the other.

Speaker C: Yeah, I love it. I mean, I think you just described, you know, a leadership journey, right? Like, even when you're giving an example of being able to say, uh, no and not, you know, and not have the fear around, it is that's also a reflection of your, of the stage that your organization is in. And I feel like sometimes with entrepreneurs, like in the beginning, you don't want to say no. You're saying because you're saying yes to every opportunity because maybe you think you have to, or maybe you don't think that opportunity is going to come up, or you want to do everything you can to get, you know, the exposure and get your name out or whatever. So you're just constantly saying yes and trying to do everything. And they reach a point where it's actually a luxury to be able to say no.

Speaker A: And people think saying no is a bad thing. I don't think that's the case at all. I think it's not about saying no. It's about picking your battles, but doing whatever. Yes.

Speaker C: Prioritizing. That's it.

Speaker A: And it's whatever you're doing, doing it well. I think it's worse to say yes to a hundred things and doing all of them equally bad. I don't think there's any value in that. Instead, pick your 10 things and really do them well, where everybody can be proud of them. I love it.

Speaker C: Um, on that note, we're going to go to Quick Fire.

Speaker A: Oh, boy. I thought this was Quick Fire. Okay, it's quicker.

Speaker C: Let's go.

Speaker A: All right, I'm ready.

Speaker C: What advice would you tell your younger self?

Speaker A: Pause.

Speaker C: What's your advice for someone struggling in the industry?

Speaker A: Pause. Uh, I don't think we spend enough time reflecting upon why we that struggle is happening. Each of us know the answers to what is it that we're seeking very much within us if we really want to. The struggle happens because we are somewhere making decisions. We might be, you know, spreading the blame to everybody at the world sucks. It's tough. Everything is tough at all points. But, uh, it pause to understand and reflect as to why that might be happening.

Speaker C: What's your advice for fellow hospitality leaders?

Speaker A: Listen, don't think you're the smartest guy in the room. Walk in, understand from everybody else. But one thing, despite doing that, don't lose your own voice. It's a really important balance to have. Too many times we are, uh, thinking, listening to others and creating that democratic feel is what's going to move forward. But it's actually a dance. You must have your own convictions and your own core beliefs while still listening to others and always validating. Just never fall in love with yourself. I think that's probably the core message is too many times we believe we're the smartest one in the room. I already have the answer. Give another idea a chance. I have. Too many times. I've failed many times doing that. But I've also succeeded resoundingly at the answer I gave for Chef Chintan. Having his conviction and not really believing in it and believing like, what if what he's saying is he's right and I might be the one that's wrong? That little gap can make or break something, and that's what built on a politic.

Speaker C: Love it. On that note, thank you, Ronnie, so much for taking time to share a little bit with career journey advice. Um, I recently had an incredible, uh, meal at sema. Ah. Um, and I particularly, which I'm going to call out. I particularly like that sign when you go to the bathroom and it's like, wash dishes, wash hands. I don't know why I stopped there. And I just started cracking up. And somebody was coming up at that time and you just smiled and I'm like, uh, it's so clever. But those are the little, you know, those are the little things that create the whole experience of. Thank you to you and your team. Um, and we cannot wait to see what's next.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's, uh, such a pleasure talking to you. And I just, you know, I really want to say that such a respect for the way you are building this organization. And I don't think you realize you might be representing one of the most important aspects of our entire industry. The biggest challenge we will face and that we are facing today, and it will not be any better, is resources, finding the right people, any growing organization or not. Uh, that is the single biggest factor. And I think you have somehow figured out how to be the very best at it. So thank you.

Speaker C: Thank you, Ronnie. Have a great day.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Remember, success looks different for everyone. In hospitality, no two paths are the same. If you have a leader or a topic you want to Hear about, email mediaulinaryagents.com Hospitality on the Rise is brought to you by culinary agents connecting top talent with employers since 2012. Whether you're hiring or looking for your next opportunity, join us@, uh, culinaryagents.com for more inspiration. Subscribe to Hospitality on the rise and visit hospitalitycareerpaths.com a free platform by culinary agents.

Speaker C: Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker B: Remember to, like, follow and subscribe. And if you love this episode, share it with someone who could use a little inspiration.