S2 E12: Embracing Uniqueness with Vimla Appadoo and Dr Marilyn Comrie OBE

Speaker A: Honey I Blew up the business.

Speaker B: Wow. Have we got an interview for you today, Dr. Uh, Marilyn Comrie, OBE is back for Honey I Blow up the Business with Vimla Apadoo. Two powerful women from the north of England. Both sit on the board of the Manchester lep, where the LEP is, uh, the thing that helps deliver determine the strategic course for the city region. Marilyn's an award winning serial entrepreneur and a return guest for this podcast. A green tech innovator, a social business pioneer. The Queen gave her an OBE and she's the CEO of the Manchester Innovation Activities Hub. Vimler is an entrepreneur, a keynote speaker, a co founder of designer of cultural change in companies and an experienced designer at the Tech for Good platform Culture Shift. These two are powerful women of color with unique perspectives. Something we can all learn from, actually. And I found this a very nourishing conversation. We get into a whole lot of really interesting stuff about knowing your worth, learning how to say no, and how to embrace your uniqueness. Something I think that everyone can learn from. And I think these two are really living, uh, that out and a great inspiration. Personally, I got a lot from this and if you don't know me, I'm Dan Kirby, your host of Honey I Blew up the Business. This podcast is called that, uh, because back in 2017, that's what I did. I blew up my business. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a podcaster on the side. We nearly lost the business, but we didn't. We turned it around. Now it's doing better than ever. But trust me, I don't want to go back there again. So I'm talking to Marilyn and Vimler today to learn from these great guests I've got and to sort of help me forge the future for my entrepreneurial career, my business, if you like, my mission, because my mission is to help you on your mission. If you like that, please share this podcast with your pals, give us a five star review, all that good stuff. Because I am trying to genuinely help people, help you, so you can help me to do that. Before we get into it, I want to thank my business, the tech department, the one that we turned around for supporting this podcast. Thanks, guys. So let's get into it now. This is a fantastic episode. Really. I'm really honored to share it with you. So, uh, let's get into it now. Starting ready in three, two, one. Welcome to the podcast. We have Vimla Apadhoo. And returning to the podcast, Marilyn Comrie. Welcome both of y'.

Speaker A: All. Hi.

Speaker C: Thanks for Having us.

Speaker A: Great to be here again, Dan.

Speaker B: It is great to have you here because I will highly recommend everybody to listen to Marilyn's uh, podcast with me. Her first, uh, the first time on the podcast. Because it's absolutely bloody brilliant and it was super inspiring as I was re listening to it and genuinely check it out. I was blown away by how brilliant I was. No, I mean, Marilyn was these two fantastic pioneers in, in business, both with social purpose and uh, they work together, um, on Manchester's lep, which I think we'll get into a little bit. Which is why I wanted to get you together because you're both in the north of England, in Manchester, the beating heart of uh, entrepreneurial spirit in the north, and you're both trying to do good in the world. And I just thought, would it be interesting to have these two powerful female entrepreneurs onto my podcast to share what it's really like at the coal face of uh, this sort of calling that we're all on? Um, and knowing Marilyn and knowing Vim by reputation, I thought, yeah, uh, a spirited conversation. So basically I'm going to not say much. I'm just going to let you two like crack on and I'll make a cup of tea. So without further ado, I'm going to sort of segue into this. I'm very much looking forward to this. But to kick off, how did you two first meet?

Speaker A: I think it was on the very first um, LEP board.

Speaker C: I think it was before that. I think we met at ah, a networking event, um, in. I think your son might have been speaking on a panel I knew in the audience and I think we met at that event. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: A digital one, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah, was.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Better memory than me.

Speaker C: Um, and I think, yeah, we've crossed paths quite a few times since then, but obviously got to know each other a bit more through the work with the lip.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So what is uh, a LEP for people who don't know.

Speaker A: And it's essentially uh, the business board for Greater Manchester in terms of. So Bimler and I sit on Greater Manchester's local enterprise partnership, which is now going to be called the Greater Manchester Business Board. And it's essentially about setting strategy for uh, the growth and development of businesses, but also growing the economy, um, with a particular focus, uh, on um, making Greater Manchester fairer, greener and more prosperous so that everyone benefits. So that's the uh, uniting banner under all of it. I don't know what Vimler would have to add to that.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say we kind of, we act as a conduit between business and politics. So we represent the voice of the business community at uh, a political level to ensure that the work that's happening uh, represents those needs. And Manchester's done a really great, well Greater Manchester has done a really great job of trying to bring more diversity into those conversations and ensure that that fairer point um, is true of this kind of Greater Manchester region.

Speaker B: So Casey, you've got this macro view of the world um, as being encouraged to craft fairer, well within the sort of space of the northwest of the UK and you're kind of active within that and but both of you have your kind of entrepreneurial backgrounds and careers and paths. And I'm curious as both as uh, on this uh, LEP board, what does LEP stand for by the way?

Speaker A: Uh, Local Enterprise Partnership.

Speaker B: Local Enterprise Partnership. So you've got this Local Enterprise partnership looking at the bigger view, but you've got your individual views of this world. And part of the theme of our podcast is kind of the um, sort of how, what it's really like on, on the entrepreneurial path. So, so I'm curious to sort of explore your kind of, your precise sort of individual experiences of navigating that, that world. And so particularly as female founders, and particularly female founders trying to do social good. And so can you, can you sort of explore like what's been your uh, experience as female founders in the world trying to um, sort of pursue your visions?

Speaker A: Well, I would say what both Bimbler and I bring is lived experience myself as a black female entrepreneur. And I think that um, one of the things that you will find is that often in terms of strategy and policy, uh, there is usually an attempt to design a one size fits all approach. But actually there are very different experiences or for black entrepreneurs, let's say to Asian entrepreneurs or mainstream entrepreneurs. And you're starting from uh, often ah, a very different starting point. So I would say one of the challenges of being primarily a black entrepreneur, but it's uh, multiplied by being female as well, is it's very challenging for black entrepreneurs to gain investment in order to scale and grow their businesses. Much, much more difficult than any other group which has been borne out by report after report after report. So I know that one of the things that I'm really keen to champion is to level that playing field. And it's very much about um, racial equity. So you know, if you're starting further back, you're going to need a lot more help and support to Be able to have the same kind of opportunities, grow and scale your business. So, um, that's very much because the figures are that only 0.25% of black businesses ever get venture capital funding. It's very, very low indeed. And um, I'm conscious as a growing business we've had to rely on grant funding, innovate UK funding. We're going to start our first equity raise this year. But at the back of my mind I already know that the figures are against us. And um, if we do manage to raise the 2 million that we're looking for, uh, we will have, um, succeeded where others have failed. But you can't be deterred. We're still pressing ahead because we've got a really great product. It's uh, a new app. Uh, we're also doing another equity raise next year for a new hydrogen edtech platform, um, which can train literally the world. But I'm conscious that we've got the ideas, we've got, uh, uh, uh, uh, the passion, the enthusiasm, we've got the networks. But will we be able to raise the funding? And so one of the things I'm certainly doing on the left is ensuring that certainly within Greater Manchester we align, we really push and promote inclusive investment because that's going to be really, really key, especially for city region, which is one third black, Asian minority ethnic. So we really have to get that right if we're going to enable everyone within our, uh, city region to achieve their true potential.

Speaker B: Yeah, M. And this is the thing, the potential that's within those communities, how does that get unlocked? And is that something that resonates with you?

Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. I think, uh, the barriers to starting a business, when you come from a minority group, you're hyper aware of them. You kind of know walking into a room that you're probably the only person there that's going to be from a BAME background or you just don't get taken seriously when you're having these initial conversations. I started my first business when I was 21 and talking to people about being a young female founder, uh, of color. Um, people jump on the uniqueness, uh, of that, but then don't follow through with the support or the networks or the connections or the funding. And it's kind of, you're kind of put on a pedestal of you're different, you look different, you're doing something different, but we're not actually going to take you seriously. Um, and that's the real shame because you get pushed out to speak at events or uh, to Talk about how great the city is or, you know, to do whatever it is, um, without talking about the realities of being in that position or, um, the benefit is always what you can bring to whoever it is that you're speaking for rather than what the benefit is to your business.

Speaker B: Okay, I just want to. This is really, I think this is something interesting on here because you've got this sort of the avatar of we're being progressive and we've got this person here and cool. And it's a bit of a maybe. I hesitate to say it's like the window dressing aspect of this one.

Speaker C: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker B: Age and cool. But then the reality and being. This is a podcast about the reality. Uh, let's explore that. So what is the reality of your. Let's, uh, go. And it's going to use that, if you don't mind using you as the example of you as this 21 woman, uh, of color trying to do something different. And you'll be on one level celebrated for that. But then you feel like this is perhaps the agenda here is to the benefit of the person giving you the platform to you explore that. What, what, what you can. Could you explore that? What was that like?

Speaker C: If I, if I were to look back and talk to myself as that 21 year old starting the business, I definitely would say, don't be so naive. Um, I was unashamedly grateful for the opportunities in the business that I was able to win, that I'd never reflected back on whether I was pricing myself right or, um, if I was valuing the work in the right way at all. So I look at kind of the work I was delivering at that point and the cost it was to the people we were working with, and I wish I wasn't even worth it. It was kind of like I shouldn't, I, I should have had a mentor or someone there since checking those decisions to help me grow the business in a better way. But I, you know, I, yeah, like I say, I was naive at that. Um, and I think when I look at the kind of my counterparts or even to Marilyn's point of the, the starting point being so different. I didn't have a network, a support network around me who could guide me in there. I didn't have a family rooted in entrepreneurship who knew what they were doing or how to set up the accounts or how to even start a business or any of that stuff. So when you're starting from scratch on your own, trying to navigate that landscape, it's so easy to be taken advantage of. But to, um, undersell yourself. And I think they're probably two of my biggest learnings. And what I. One of the reasons I joined the NEP in the first place is to show people who look like me that there's a space for people like us in these positions of power. But to also show how to value yourself enough and to have that confidence to go in and put the real numbers on the table and say, this is what it's worth. And this is why I'm worth.

Speaker B: Because, Marilyn, when we spoke, you had this kind of example of what happened with your son's business being taken advantage of a young age. And there's a thing here of, I guess, of entering knowing one's worth. And that is hard. Anyway, I think, full stop. Yeah, I struggle with this. Like, what is it? You know, I'm 50 this year and I've been doing this for 23 years, and I'm still like, struggling to price it properly. Like, it's sort of. This is just general thing of like, only silly old me kind of thing, but which I feel. And. And it's just something that resonates with you.

Speaker A: No, uh, without a shadow of a doubt. Uh, you know, one of the things that I've learned to do and my son's learned to do is to just say no if people are wanting you to deliver. Because, you know, at the end of the day, as Vimless says, we are a rarity. So you pay for premium prices for a rarity. But actually your experience, um, is that, uh, people come to you and because you're black or Asian, they think that you're worth less. So the kind of prices they're expecting us to deliver things for, they would never expect a white male to deliver it for. And especially a white male with so many years experience who's a specialist in their area. And we've just had to say no to people, knowing that they're going to have to come back because we're the only show in town. So part of it is about educating them. And they tend to be organizations who have equal opportunities policies and they don't know that they're not practicing them. So I think last time I mentioned that somebody contacted us, they had a 1.2 million pound contract. They wanted us to engage with people in the community. And we said, well, what's your budget? Oh, we don't have any money. After they just told us. So we were very happy to say no. Um, because there is. It is about spending time just really understanding what your worth is. Um, deciding that you're not going to do things that don't, um, reflect that worth. And I think all entrepreneurs, uh, face that, as you rightly say, especially small entrepreneurs, micro businesses. But. But I think that one of the things is that if you are confident and you can look people in the eye and say, this is my rate and this is what I'm worth, and you're prepared to walk away. My experience is they will always pay you what you believe that you're worth.

Speaker B: How do you. How do you build that confidence?

Speaker C: I think it comes with the experience. I think there's a lot of. Especially when you're starting out, I think there's a fear of losing opportunities, which means you often compromise. And I think it's hard to m. Like Maren says, you have to learn how to say no and how to do that. And it does take practice to be able to realize that it does come back round or you're not going to lose out. Um, building that confidence is really difficult. And that's where I think having a support network and people around you to help you build your confidence in that way is really, really crucial in finding trusted people who will tell you when you do what you're doing right and when you're going wrong is key.

Speaker B: Can you give us an example of a specific experience where you're. You. Your confidence has been. You built your confidence.

Speaker A: I would. I mean, I got a specific example, so I started, uh, I've been in business a number of years and m. I helped my son now to set up his business nine years ago, the Blair Project. I remember when we started out, his mission was about making motorsport more affordable, accessible, inclusive and sustainable. Uh, and he really wanted to help his brother and other young people get to the highest echelons of motorsport, which is Formula One. At the time, we were told that we were being absolutely ridiculous, um, that we should help young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to accept their status in life and not to aim high. And I'm glad we ignored them. So we started on this road of, um, developing electric go karts, working with engineers. I have a science background. My son's Niall, is very much a tech background. But we learned that we found our tribe. Finding your tribe is really important. Your tribe are those people who have your back no matter what. And we have a great tribe of people, engineering consultants, um, app developers, you know, that will come with us through thick and thin. So that's been a key part of our success. But two years ago, I'm glad to say, Formula One approached us and said we'd love a partnership with you and we help them to recruit to mechanical engineering apprentices. So actually what we've proven is that uh, if you're determined and resilient and you really have to be, especially if you're a uh, female entrepreneur of color or like my son, a male entrepreneur of color, you've got to be really clear about it's uh, that why you're doing it and you're doing it for the good and it's wanting to deliver transformational change and ignoring the naysayers. And um, we've gotten there, we went further and um, we put together a proposal for creating a net zero industrialization center which would also deliver electrification skills training during the lockdown. And um, it's called the Manchester Innovation Activities Hub. Finished writing the feasibility study in May and then discovered in August we were awarded £4 million in funding from central government to create MIA. So MIA, the Manchester Innovation Activities Hub opens this summer. Yesterday I got an email to say Northwest Business Insider had decided to include me as uh, one of, as uh, a name amongst their green power list. So I'm already being acknowledged as a uh, leader within the green innovation, green economy space, which is amazing. And that's happened over a two year period, um, during lockdown. So in many ways for us, the last three years, the lockdown, the pandemic, has allowed us to step back, come off the hamster wheel because you know, you're busy working for not a lot of money and then you need that time to come off the hamster wheel, reflect, um, and then actually identify what your strengths are and what you're really good at. And I've turned out during the um, pandemic I've learned how to write successful Innovate UK bids which we're now using to the advantage of the company. So again, we were the only SME in the UK awarded funding as part of the Innovation Accelerator uh, program, which is a 100 million pound program. So we're one of 26 organizations who are getting a share of that 100 million. But that is as a direct result of um, developing these skill sets that enable us to grow. And an important one for us is bid writing. Innovate UK bid writing.

Speaker B: Interesting. And so you, this whole kind of needing to find your, why, your purpose and that gives you a frame to root yourself to be able to get those skills and push through these changes and what have you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And just because we've been talking about this sort of as a female uh, entrepreneur of Color or entrepreneur of color. This kind of sense of purpose and drive and for the good. You said quoted again, this is. It goes back to your 21 year old self bimler of like you're trying to do something and you've got these, um. It's funny, it's almost like the perception of what you can and can't do by yourself and others. And um, what I'm interested actually is to sort of explore that is how does one build that confidence, move towards that purpose with these kind of internal and external forces and how does that, how did you navigate through that?

Speaker C: I think I've been really lucky that I have always had people, um, so I've not always had people being able to tell me how to run a business, but I've always had people cheerleading me and having that confidence and faith in them to be able to do it. When you're doing a for good business, it's being aligned to what your mission and your purpose is is really key. I think one of the things that's missing from like societal norms at the moment is that self reflection of who am I, what do I stand for, what's my values, what's my purpose and how do you use those things and knowing yourself, how do you use those to help you make decisions? And that's a really key part whenever I'm mentoring someone now is taking it back to those reflection points and like getting that deeper sense of who am I and what do I want and what's the impact I want to have on the world to then help shape career paths, businesses, trajectories and because if you can always route it back to. I've made this decision because it aligns to this part a part of me and where I want to go. You know, you're always going to be on the right path.

Speaker B: Is that something that resonates with you, Marilyn?

Speaker A: No, uh, very much so. So I think it is taking that time for reflection. I think one of the most diffic things is that the thing that you're really good at is a thing that you find really easy and you think everybody can do it. And um, so you don't give yourself credit for the fact that I am in this one area. I am truly exceptional, as exceptional as a Beyonce or whatever else. And look what she think. Hey, so it's finding that thing that you find really easy that other people tell you how do you do that? And you just think it's no big deal, uh, because you do think everybody else can do it. So I Think you need to start listening to people who say to you, how do you do that? Because that's an indicator that you have a talent and a strength that you don't recognize. And then you need to add that. And you think, oh, right, I can carve out, uh, not a career, but, you know, I can start charging for those services. But you need to. It helps you to recognize it because I find that you really blindsided in terms of your talents. And, um, the recognition of the talents builds your confidence.

Speaker B: So what are your talents then, Marilyn? What's your uniqueness in that you've. You've got this. There's these things that you take for granted. What are they?

Speaker A: Um, I think that one of my talents. So I have a science background, but also I worked for 17 years for the BBC as a program maker. So I think that one of my talents is that I'm able to translate quite complex scientific, uh, technological terms or even emerging technologies in a, uh, way that mere mortals can understand it. So, you know, this space, whether it's hydrogen technologies or whether it's battery manufacturing, um, usually it's the space dominated by university professors who have their own speech and I'm almost like a translator. So that I can then engage, as I say, ordinary people and say, you really need to get involved in net zero innovations, and these are the kind of things you can do. And that's going to be my key role going forward. But also because I did train to become a journalist, I've got really good writing skills. So I really have honed my bid writing skills. And, um. And I think perhaps the other thing is that, um, I'm fearless. I'm really courageous. But the fearlessness and courageousness comes from. I just really want to ensure that my children and my grandchildren don't have to go through the struggles that I had to go through. Change has to happen in my lifetime. And that's the thing that really spurs me on. And I think, you know, one of the things to recognize is that, um, as a change agent, there is always a lot of resistance to, um, implementing change. Because the people that really benefited from, let's say, the status quo fear that they will lose out. And you only have to look at examples like Martin Luther King, uh, and, um, uh, Nelson Mandela. He was seen as a terrorist, but then he became the grandfather of the world. But it was only because he was looking to introduce change in South Africa. There was a lot of resistance coming closer to home, uh, that whole equality, diversity, equity thing is about levelling up and I care equally passionately about residents in Oldham. So I have the honor of being the LEP representative for Oldham. And Oldham is one of the. The most deprived boroughs in Greater Manchester. And I'm really committed to sourcing opportunities for Oldham that will enable it to, um, retrieve its glory days as a battery manufacturing center of excellence, for instance. So whether that's supporting the, uh, companies coming in, like HS2 and others that I've been talking to, writing bid applications that enable them to secure funding, but that you're driving transformation. Because I want to see local people being able to, in Oldham to get good jobs, which mean that they don't have to travel into Manchester, they can come to Manchester and secure the great opportunities that exist here. But you know what? If you want to stay closer to home, there will be great jobs in old and connected to tech, advanced manufacturing, advanced materials that local people can access there.

Speaker B: Brilliant. Okay, so you've got this, your unique ability, as it were, this kind of ability to translate and communicate and inspire and in effect kind of make these things happen. What would, from your point of view, what's your, um, zone of genius, as they call it?

Speaker C: I think mine is connecting dots so I can. So my. I'm a designer by trade, and, uh, my area of design is the horizon. Scanning and understanding the bigger picture and then connecting the dots between bigger pictures to create a new vision or a new strategy. And I think kind of what Marilyn's saying, I've never really seen it as a skill until you sit in real. You're sitting in a room and you're moving the sticky notes around and being like, this is the route through, and people go, oh, I would have never done that. I would have never put those things together. And I think that's my skill is lifting out of fogginess and mess and creating something that makes sense to people for them to come around. And then alongside that, facilitating difficult conversations, I think is a skill that I've realized I have. And being able to do it in an empathetic way that genuinely enables people to be heard, um, I think is a really rare skill that I've got that I definitely take for granted in most of the conversations I have.

Speaker B: M. You talked earlier about knowing your worth in a financial way. And there's also that phrase, know thyself in, like, knowing who you are. And actually this is, by the way, something I've done a lot of work on, um, through a coaching program I attend. Um, in fact, my first guest on the podcast two years ago was a guy Called Dan Sullivan and, and he's, uh, known as the world's number one entrepreneurial coach. He was the, he came back to relaunch season two and he's. One of his concepts is his idea of unique ability. This idea that your sort of factory baked into you and you. To your point, you don't really see it as a thing. But mine I've discovered after much debt, sort of, sort of digging in is I'm. I have this knack of what I say is taking people on a creative, fun adventure. And I express that through my business. So a lot of my team have been with me, but most of them have been with my business for over six years, a few of them for over 10 years. And through this podcast we talk about very sensitive things, but it's kind of fun and it's lighthearted and it's an adventure and we're going on that and other events, like a few physical things in meetups and what have you. But that's the thing. I just do that. I do that whether I'm doing a run or this, uh, I make it to a fun thing. And why do you think it is? Just what's the sort of attribute beneath that? Because again, we started the conversation talking about being different, about being the only person in the room, about being this sort of uniqueness of female and of color, but you have this. Then there's a uniqueness of baked in attributes or skill sets.

Speaker C: Got it.

Speaker B: Take us. Let's focus on this word, uniqueness. What do you think? Are, uh, you looking back at your careers in the positions that you've been and the attributes that you have, how do you think your uniqueness has helped you?

Speaker C: Um, but I do a lot of public speaking and I talk about this quite a lot in that my uniqueness is really rooted in my mum and dad's immigration story and knowing their struggles growing up, knowing what it was like for them when they moved to Britain, knowing what they've sacrificed so that me, my and my siblings can have the life that we have, has made, has, has embedded in me this outlook of, you don't take things for granted. You give every opportunity you've been given to everyone else. You, you know, you ensure that you leave the world in a better way than you came into it. And I actually didn't realize that not everyone thinks that way for a really long time. It wasn't until I started working that I was like, people don't have that outlook. And I was really optimistically naive about that. And that is Something I am so proud of that is totally unique because no one else has that immigration story, no one else has been through. There are similarities and there are, you know, definitely definite similarities between people of that generation. But that story that my mum and dad have is very, very unique to me and to how I therefore see the world. Um, and I think that's why being a person of color and being a founder and being in the for good space is a rarity. And it's paying on it, however, homage to, to that generation and to everything that's gone before me as an example

Speaker B: of like where you've found yourself using that story or m, like day to day.

Speaker C: So when I say, when I have talked about that in kind of public speaking, I've had people come up to me in tears afterwards saying I've never heard someone do a keynote and be that vulnerable and open about where they've come from and where their roots are. And that says to me that one, there's not enough people like me doing these talks and two, there's a barrier to being that open and vulnerable about these stories in an open way. And the more, the more people there are that are willing and able to share that and to be humbled by it and to talk about where it's led them, the more we'll get more people that look and have those stories able to do that as well. So that's kind of at a kind of macro level where I have the influence, but then in a day to day it's in the decisions I make, it's the job I do, it's how I work. Like my, my whole point of being is to work with underrepresented groups and make sure their voices are heard at strategic levels and organizations and research so that we're building better services, products that represent the people who are going to need them so that no one gets left behind anymore. Marilyn said earlier, people, uh, that have benefited from the status quo and I often say the status quo isn't good enough. Like it excludes the global majority on a day to day basis. And it's now people working in technology, people that are running businesses. It's our job, it's our responsibility to ensure we don't make those same mistakes again because we can't. Because we are failing the world if we do.

Speaker B: I love that the concept of the status quo is leaving people behind. And it's interesting, it's almost like a kind of a state of stasis this. It's almost by its nature what's the right word, not lazy, but like kind of not incorporating the full potential perhaps. Like it's just sort of the bit kind of. Oh, it's just always been this way. So let's just trundle along like he's always been so. So again, one of my personal themes is, is that I'm interested in, is entrepreneurs as agents are positive change, full stop. Right. And then we've got different angles and perspectives on that and that's great at a vibrant community of founders making changes. But I wanted to again I'd like to jump off that and look at that specifically because I think in the world there's lots of problems, societal, global, whatever. And my belief is that entrepreneurs can and will be the force for change to make things happen. Because governments tend to be quite intransigent and lots of change happens quite slowly. But the entrepreneurs, as a force for good in the world and as a force for change in the world and just jumping off on what you were saying there, uh, in terms of your story and how that motivates you, how do you see entrepreneurship as a role in doing good in the world? Marilyn, why don't you jump in there?

Speaker A: Um, well, you know, to you know, some of us quoting Shakespeare, some of us born entrepreneurs, some of us find our way into entrepreneurship, into that. You know, some of us are born great, some achieve greatness and some of greatness thrust upon them. Um, so it'll be the same with entrepreneurship is that I know from the age of four, so my parents came from Jamaica that I was born here. And I remember at the age of four watching a documentary, Disappearing Worlds about an African tribe whose way of life have been impacted by um, uh, kind of like um, uh, industrialization. And I determined at the age of four I wanted to become a scientist to help those people. Uh, and um, I would come up with a solution. So anyway, I sailed through school, went to grammar school, um, went to Birmingham University to study chemistry. Uh, and um, then at uh university decided I didn't want a career in organic chemistry, uh, which is where most m of the jobs were. So I went and did a radio and TV journalism course and the reason why and then went to work for the BBC for 17 years. But the reason why I mention it is that I remember watching a George Michael documentary about. He called it the Red Thread. And that if you go back in your life you will see that there was a path already carved out for you. And I would say that everything that has happened in my life today was to bring me to the Point where I am. So, so uh, you know, studying science is really relevant to what I'm doing now. Um, the journalism bit, helping the bid, writing. I went and retrained to become a leadership coach because I realized that I had these transferable skills. Spent time out in M. Kenya, in Eastern Europe, delivering training. And it was a terrorist bomb in Nairobi because I was planning to move to Kenya. Um, that put pay to those plans. And um, what happened is that Ben now came back from touring the world and he decided to set up the Blair Project. And honestly at that time, if anybody had told me I would have been involved in a motorsport business, I really would have told you you'd lost your mind and you needed to retrace your footsteps so you could mind it again. And what I've learned is that uh, through, and I listen to lots of inspirational talks and one of the ones that appeals to me the most is Bruce Lee when he says be like water. And I think in this modern world the pace of change is happening so quickly that we've all got to become comfortable of letting go of the known, trusting the process and becoming much more agile and learning to go with the flow and where life takes you. And that's what I've learned. To be, is to be like water. But I would say looking back, I can see the red thread that George Michael talked about and as Dimler talks about connecting the dots, I am not here purely by chance and you could say that spiritual or whatever else, but that's what I've discovered and I've relayed to my sons, is that everything that has happened to me in my life has brought me to this point so that I can um, achieve my purpose. So I do believe all of us were born to fulfill a purpose. Uh, and um, um, trusting in the process enables you to discover it. What that purpose is.

Speaker C: Mhm. I think it's so inspiring to hear you say that as well, Marilyn. And I think it's those messages that are so important for young people to hear because I can recall growing up little phrases that my family would say to me that definitely built the confidence from a young age to be able to go and do stuff of you're really good at talking and now I do public speaking or like, you know, um, you're really good at challenging and like little things like that where you don't realize the impact of people you respect or look up to saying those things and instilling that confidence into, in you and the impact it has on later life. Um, and I think it's easy to take for granted when you're around young people or anyone really, that those little comments can make such a big difference to someone's trajectory in life as a

Speaker B: woman that can, uh, join the dots, Bimler. Looking back on your life, um, are you the 21 year old you to the rage you are now you, that span of time as a operating in the world, navigating this path, uh, building on your uniqueness. Look back at that time. Okay, what, looking at joining the dots, what did you learn from that period?

Speaker C: Definitely to have confidence in who you are and where you've come from. I spent a lot of my life hiding behind western norms and being afraid to step into the space of this is who I am and this is my identity and these are my roots. And it took a really long time to shake that, uh, and recognize the strength and power in who I am and my story. Um, and I think over, uh, another attribute that I took for granted is, um, calling out the BS and injustice. And I've always done it and I have taken it for granted that that's not something that everyone has in them to do. Um, and I'm really proud that I am now known as someone who will represent that in most rooms of not, not standing for it and as a result, uh, creating the change that I want to see. And actually I lied when I said that I started my first business when I was 21 because I actually started my first business when I was 6 or 7 because I used to charge my mum to come in, turned it into a beauty salon. Was like, no, you're only coming in here if you pay me and you've got to pay me for all of these services that uh, you know, she bought all the products for. Anyway, there we go. Yeah.

Speaker B: Top tip of today's podcast is room for services. There we go. You heard it here first. The breakthrough innovation and we're ending up to at the end of our uh, discussion together. I'm really interested. There's a theme of uniqueness that's come through this, of owning your uniqueness, I guess. Um, and that could be interpreted in many ways. One's uniqueness. Right. I'm really interested as a theme, but in this discussion of um, around that kind of area, what would you uh, what's the kind of an example of where your uniqueness has helped, um, you that you would want to share with the people listening?

Speaker C: I'm happy to go first. I think that uniqueness has helped me build genuine connections and relationships with community groups who don't have a voice in spaces. And um, because of that trust in me and because I can have those conversations with different groups, I'm able to make sure that those voices are represented at decision making tables when I have had the opportunity to be in them. Um, and that enables me to then open the door out to those communities to come into those spaces as well. So without, you know, without recognizing that uniqueness and the ability to do that, I wouldn't be able to do my job and ensure those communities have a voice.

Speaker B: And Maren, how would you. Or you've got an example?

Speaker A: Uh, well it goes back to. So we've been working very closely with HS2 and their tier one suppliers. Um, they've uh, committed to include inclusive procurement which will create uh, and has created and is creating opportunities now for black Asian minority ethnic businesses which they've never had before. So at the moment HS UH2 and their tier 1 UH partners spend 1 billion every year with micro businesses. And I want to ensure that some of those micro businesses are uh, businesses in Greater Manchester. Uh, and so what I'm doing is translating what they need to uh, and m translating it to uh, businesses run by people of color and hand holding and helping them to be able to deliver. Uh, so that's one prime example of something that I'm doing now.

Speaker B: Brilliant. Well I think embracing one's uniqueness in whatever format takes is a great rallying call for anyone listening and particularly if you're um, uh, you know, from a disadvantaged background, a person of color and you kind of like the courage to go and occupy and occupy your story and take that to the world. I think it's a great, inspiring multiple uh, examples we've had today which I think is again owning it and getting out there and believing in yourself and having that courage and confidence has been lived as lived out by YouTube is really I think think personally inspiring and a great message to put out to the world. So thank you for sharing it so openly today and being so open with us. Where can we find out more about you and your incredible uh, productive, illustrious careers that you both got?

Speaker A: Um, well people can follow me. Um, and what we're doing Ah, the MIA center.com website ww.mia m m I a h center.com or the Blair Project as uh B L A I r uh project.org uh and they can follow what we're doing there. Just one thing I want to say Dan, before we close is that you know both Bimler and I have had to be exceptional. What I want to do is get us to a place where you don't have to be exceptional as a black or Asian person to get on. It's okay because I meet lots of mediocre people who are in, let's say management positions and whatever else. And I would just like that part of leveling the playing field that it's okay as well to be mediocre and be black and Asian. That's when I know that we've truly leveled up. As opposed to always having to be exceptional because it's very tiring.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Or just making sure everyone's exceptional. So it's fair.

Speaker B: Yeah. This is kind of. Yeah. This don't want any, no one wants a drongo on the team. They want. You want to get really great people to be in the space in the right seats, you know, and this is the, I think this is the point of the potential that's latent within the community or a region as you're looking at is that it's getting the right, the potential out there, not having it left behind because of some form of status quo stasis. I think that's, that's really important. Where can we find out more about you, Bimler?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm active on uh, Twitter. So that girl them on twitter and then honeybadgerclan.com is where you can find out more about my business.

Speaker B: Well, I should get all those links in the show notes and thank you again for being so open. Please check them out. They've got a wonderful pioneering spirits, uh, doing good in the world, uh, doing it not just for themselves but trying to make positive change at scale within the work they're doing at, uh, Manchester lep. Um, uh, wonderful to see you guys and um, um, thanks for joining us everybody. See you all next time. Are you an impact startup founder? Are you looking to do good in the world? And do you want a team to build your tech product? But importantly, do you want that tech product to actually do what you want it to do based on the vision you've got? Then maybe, just maybe, my company, the tech department, could be a good fit. And as a founder of a startup, particularly in the early stages, every penny you invest is critical. It's adding value, it's creating improvement to your business. So our difference is we focus first on improvement. And that mindset shift is unique. And we turn that mindset shift into a method which we called the tech boot camp. And it works really great. We get great feedback from all of our startup clients. And when you've got your business profitable and you want to build your in house team, then we can help you with that too and hand over in a way that's not weird. And we're not hanging onto the code or anything stupid like that. So if you like the idea, check us out at www.thetechdept.com T H E T E C H D E P t the tech department thetechdept.com the worst name to pronounce as a domain name on a podcast. Check it out.