Future Proof: The Future Mortgage Professional

Speaker A: Yeah, I had a candidate this morning with us. Just say I was, I was talking about our AI, um, technology packet and how I can help him with his real estate agents, that kind of stuff. And he says, listen, my agents, they just do conventional 30 year fixed rates. That's all they care about. I was like, wow, this guy just, they're not just, they're just missing the boat, you know, not able to see it.

Speaker B: It's coming.

Speaker C: Welcome to the Future Proof podcast, hosted by Melissa Langdale and James Duncan. The purpose of the Future Proof series is for Morgan professionals to come together and hear from leading voices in our industry on the topics that matter most to you. What you'll take away are actionable tactics to help your teams thrive in an ever evolving marketplace. To register for upcoming live shows, visit praxislendingsolutions.com futureproof thanks for tuning in. And now here's our hosts, James Duncan and Melissa Langdale. Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Future Proof podcast. This is the companion podcast to the Future Proof webinar series hosted by my good friend and yours, Melissa Langdale. Hey Melissa.

Speaker D: Hey James.

Speaker C: How are you doing today?

Speaker D: I'm doing fantastic. I'm excited about our conversation this week focusing in on the future mortgage professional. Um, you know, we often, you know, we've talked about probably for years that our industry really needs to invest in the next generation and kind of helping build that next generation, um, generation of mortgage professional. A lot of the things that we're going to talk today about have um, great implications of how we can do that. So I'm excited to share with everybody.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was a really good interview. We had Fabi Nagmi and Justin Neal joining us. Uh, they gave really great responses and had had uh, some really deep insights on all the questions that you were teeing up. So first one that, that we're going to get to is, uh, you asked a good kickoff question just to kind of get things rolling about what is the sentiment that, that these guys are hearing now. They're both heavily involved in the production world and working with loan officers and recruiting law officers, bring them into their respective companies. So, uh, if anybody's going to have a pulse on what loan officers and sales professionals are thinking right now in this world of AI uh, it's going to be uh, these two in particular. And there's uh, some really interesting responses just to, to get things started off. So let's, let's take a look at their, their uh, responses.

Speaker A: There's one camp that's very Excited. And I. The other thing, I'll say there hasn't been an age distinction for me either. I haven't. I haven't seen an age distinction. It's not like, oh, if you're like, 45 and below, you're really excited and that kind of stuff. So it's kind of a mixed, Mixed, Mixed generations there. Uh, and then there's a side that's, uh, kind of cautiously like, okay, when it happens, it happens. And then there's a side that's really like, paranoid and that can't be understated as well either, because they're concerned about their livelihood. Yeah, they, uh, uh, they're fearful that, uh, somehow another AI is going to replace their positions. Um, and they're begrudgingly going towards it.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, Justin, how about you, buddy?

Speaker B: I agree with that. There's different camps, and definitely I think tech is what separates the camps, not age. Um, which I'm happy to see that because I think everyone has a chance to learn and grow. But I do agree that there's trepidation. We hear a lot in the news about AI replacing jobs and mortgage is no different than other industries and segments. So my advice to anybody that's in any of those camps is just keep growing, keep learning, keep experimenting, keep, uh, your eyes open, and you're, um, do what you can do to get through and be better.

Speaker D: Well, I love both of their advice to everybody. Um, and I'm seeing the exact same thing. I think there is a kind of diverse representation of a little bit of excitement in the industry, a little bit of trepidation or fear in the industry. I think when you think about it from both sides of things, things, there's. There is this group that is excited, that's leaning in, that's, you know, willing to, to learn new things and willing to kind of help their companies through all of this. And then there's that kind of fearful side too that says, oh, my gosh, what's changing about my job? I. I'm scared about losing my job. I'm scared about, you know, my role changing over time. And so I, uh, know we're going to talk a little bit later in this conversation about kind of how to lead through that fear and change. So I don't want to dig into that too much right now, but I think it's. It's interesting to. To see that even though they're, you know, they're talking to people every single day, um, you know, about this industry, about what they're looking for, and so you know, I think, you know, it's interesting that they're still hearing from, from both sides.

Speaker C: Yeah, I liked. Or how Justin chimed in with, uh, with keep growing, keep learning, keep experimenting. That really is the, the diagnosis and the presc. Or how to get over if you do have, uh, are one of those that fall in the trend, the uh, fear and trepidation camp. That's really the easiest prescription, um, for how to overcome that is just about jumping in and learning it. It's the same way that, that you got to the point in your career that you are now by adapting those principles. And that's really the way to uh, really expand your knowledge, expand your expertise on the new tools that are available and find what works for you, discard what doesn't, and keep evolving in terms of how well you are, how capable you are in serving your clients. Uh, after, uh, this opening, you pivoted, uh, in an interesting way, I thought with, um, asking are the loan officers that you're having conversations with, whether it's through recruiting or people already in your staff or just in conversation, uh, are they asking questions about how you were leading or are they coming to you saying, hey, I've already got my, my process. I just want you to facilitate it. They both had some interesting answers and this one really kind of kicked things off with a bang.

Speaker A: Yeah, I had a candidate this morning, Melissa, just say I was, because I was talking about our A.I. m. Um, technology packet and how it can help him with his real estate agents and that kind of stuff. And he says, listen, my agents, they just do conventional 30 year fixed rates. That's all they care about. I was like, wow, this guy's just, they're not just, they're just missing the boat, you know, not able to see it coming.

Speaker B: Yeah. And Melissa, thanks for putting this on. I want to say thank you because this is a topic that's been just on my brain for the past 12 months and I'm so happy to be a part of this discussion. And, um, I'm with Fabi too, where I've had my first recruit come to me in the last two weeks. And the questions were not the usual questions. They were right to the meat of AI and how can it help me scale? Um, so this person was seeing this as a competitive advantage and trying to stay a step ahead of the person down the street. And, um, that's interesting.

Speaker D: Well, and you know, for so long, like we've, we've looked at scaling volume for a top originator as building teams around them. So Those originators that really want to take it to the next level. What I'm seeing is there's a, there's a divide between. I'm just going to add another person, right, Because I know this works and I know this person, you know, can help me to, I don't know, increase my marketing efforts or outbound calls, what, you know, making appointments, whatever the case may be. Um, or I want an AI solution that's going to do all of that and I don't have to pay for an assistant and I can still be as effective in my marketplace. And so there is, I'm hearing this widening gap between the two and the

Speaker A: other thing that I think, Melissa, that um, I know and at least here at anymac, in my division, at least, right, we're actually creating applications specific to the loan officer and what they're asking us to build. One of the things that we just, we came out with yesterday for our team was uh, basically uh, a voice activated loan program comparison model. Literally you can just talk to your phone, I mean say, hey, Melissa just uh, applied for a loan and she wants to compare a 30 year, 15 year an FHA. Here's the rates, here's a, here's a possible, uh, uh, points and within a couple of seconds you're going to have a really nice elaborate email to send to Melissa. And you didn't have to punch in one key stroke at all. That actually came from the loan officers having challenges with certain software that's in the market space and spending six, seven months trying to learn and just being frustrated. You know, a year ago that would have, that wouldn't have been possible without the help of AI.

Speaker D: Is that also helping with like scenario questions? Like hey, there's this wonky. Yeah, okay.

Speaker A: Yeah, you just have to be really careful. I think we should talk about this as well. Melissa is you don't want to send any proprietary information, you know, or obviously private information, whatever you want to call that, uh, into the, into, into a public AI model, 100%. And I know a lot of loan officers have, you know, uploaded tax returns and stuff like that.

Speaker D: I can't tell you how many phone calls I get a week from executives that are like, Melissa, you need to help me to build this AI model because I need to get my loan officers out of uh, their, you know, AI platform. And because they're putting, I know they're putting in tax return, they're not telling me they're putting in time.

Speaker A: So yeah, I mean there's all these things that are happening and look, technology always moves way faster, faster than compliance and rules, you know that. And ah, this one is really, really steamrolled way past.

Speaker C: You know, I'm not, I'm going to start my comments by issuing a little word of caution here. What Fabi was talking about was speed. Not uh, necessarily just slapping the easy button and doing and doing something just because you can. So my question to you, dear listener, is are you leveraging AI to make your job easier or are you using it to amplify the strategic advantage that you possess? Because what Fabi suggested is a great enhancement for those who are proficient at strategizing to solve their clients problems. But it could also become a crutch for those who don't see themselves as possessing a strategic advantage. Because what he just described, anybody can now do that. Not just experienced loan officers, but your, your competition, like somebody sitting in a call center. That's uh, that's uh, working off of a script. Consumers as well. And if they're using the same tools that you have access to as a mortgage professional air quotes, then why do they need you? And that's the, that I think is the question that, that you have to answer for yourself before you start getting into this mode of just leveraging AI. Because, because it's an easy solution to come up with the thought with a way of framing something or a way of phrasing it that you can come up with on your own. I bet you with enough effort and enough practice you probably could have. So don't use it to replace yourself. Use it to enhance the strategic advice that you are able to deliver to your clients. So that's, that's my biggest word of caution to those who might take an inference of uh, oh, well, well this is super simple. I can just do that and get full comp.

Speaker D: Well and yeah, you make a couple of fantastic points. I think there's so many different opportunities that our industry is leaning into right now around AI, which we're going to talk about, you know, delegating trust building activities in a little bit. So I don't want to steal our thunder before we get there, but I think there's, there's so many different ways you can leverage AI. There's, there's the ways that allow for you to amplify yourself. As you said, um, if you're, if you're using it as an easy button, in order for it not to be a crutch, it has to be a learning tool for you. And so it's not, hey, do this for me. And you're delegating completely a component of activities that you would normally have to better serve your client. It's more of, uh, hey, teach me how to do this thing better. Teach me how I could have, you know, communicated better with this client. Teach me how what I wrote can be better and be more effective based on what this client is looking for. So use it as a tool for yourself, as a way to help yourself get better and stronger at, um, communicating and your decision making and your, you know, your strategy, both with your consumer, with your company, you know, for those executives that are listening. It's, uh, a great tool for those things, but it doesn't replace the knowledge, the, you know, the service levels that you have to. Have to make sure that you're maintaining.

Speaker C: Absolutely right. Absolutely.

Speaker D: Well, that brings us actually to our next topic, too, which is really around kind of vibe coding, because, you know, as you mentioned, there are so many different ways we could be leveraging AI. A lot of people are building their own solutions right now. So let's, so let's, let's lean in and see how Fabi and Justin, what they're hearing and maybe some solutions they're coming up with, too.

Speaker B: I mean, and I'll preface this, I'm not a coder. I'm a mortgage guy that has an interest in something that I can see is going to help me scale and be bigger and be better, both recruiting and as a longtime mortgage banker. So what I tell people that want to learn more is that I've actually taken time to learn how to build, um, on cloud code. I built some really cool, uh, kind of, um, betas on recruiting. And, um, I've been amazed at how it can come alongside me for both lead, nurturing and recruit. Nurturing and help me be better. Help me remember details about that, uh, that European cruise that they're going on with their mother and to nudge them in two weeks when they get back. Normally, that's on me. And as you would know, my calendar skills are minus. So, um, I need help in those areas. And it already knows that. So it's like, hey, I got you. I'll nudge you in two weeks. Um, so all of us that are loan officers and recruiters, we've all been guilty of trying to do all the things that we do to nurture and bring people to the finish line, but we can't remember everyone's birthday or everyone's European cruise or everyone's dog passed away. We can't remember all these things. That helps me get My memory refreshed with all these important moments that I can bring up and have conversations continue. So Claude code has been my go to. But for those in this industry that are not interested in learning cloud code, it took me a long time. Um, another language, almost. I would recommend just keep on trying to be at your best with whatever systems you have, whether it's Copilot, whether it's Outlook, reminders and Outlook, you can set those super easily. And they will nudge you in two weeks to ask how that hike went with their family that they were talking about last time you spoke. So just use whatever technology you can, but to be better.

Speaker A: So here's a little cheat on the Claude code. Just a little cheat. Okay, I'll share this with you guys. You can actually come up with this conversation that you're going to have with your. With Claude and then just simply say, hey, Claude, can you code this for me?

Speaker D: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And then you don't need to know Claude code. It's like you're just speaking this language. You see this thing, you see something in your head that you want created that's not available. Talk it through it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Then you say code it. And it's like, uh, it's an amazing world that we're living in. But I will say one thing. I want to. I want to add this in. Melissa, this is really important. What was just talking about. When you really look at what AI is doing, right? And the fear that people have, oh, my God, AI is going to take over the world, blah, blah, blah. All that, Right?

Speaker B: All.

Speaker A: Ah, really, the, the biggest thing is that it creates more capacity for the individual in the 24 hours that we're awake.

Speaker B: Yes, right,

Speaker A: whatever. I mean, Sammy, 16 hours. 16 hours that you're awake. Right. Maybe five hours that you work, I don't know. But the capacity increases.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And our ability to produce more in a shorter time frame increases.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I think that it's just amazing that, that, that. And I love the word capacity because I think that's really what AI is giving us.

Speaker D: All right, well, uh, like you said before, AI is meant to amplify, right? Um, Bobby, just like, hit that nail on the head, right? It's all about increasing your capacity. How much more can you do as a result of leveraging AI? But it's also an important thing to understand here because it's one of the reasons why people are fearful. Uh, AI right now, right, Is what. How am I. How is my role going to change? How's my company's expectations of my role going to change. You know, if I've been expected to underwrite two loans a day and clear all my resubs, um, am I going to have to underwrite 10? Like what, you know, what is that capacity metric going to change to over time? So you know, I think it's, it's number one important to just acknowledge that that fear is there and that our industry is naturally going to have that as a result of understanding that AI can give everybody, uh, you know, an opportunity to increase their capacity. So I don't know what were your big takeaways from that?

Speaker C: It's kind of, there's no one size fits all solution. Uh, when it comes to AI. Like I will fully admit that I am a complete novice when it comes to Claude code. I really haven't taken the time invested, uh, the time to learn it. However, I have spent a good amount of time invested in other systems like Base44 and Manus and a couple other platforms that are from a similar, similar bent. Uh, like Justin started off, I'm not a developer, I'm not a coder. Um, you put a script of uh, of back end code in front of me, I might be able to decipher one or two things but I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at somebody else and say what's the purpose of this? So it's, so it's one of those things where you have to, you have to get. Like Justin said, you have to keep trying to be at your best using the tech that you're most comfortable with. You don't have. And I have this conversation all the time with, with colleagues and counterparts in the marketing consulting world and with marketing directors who ask me how do you stay on top of all the AI changes? And I said I don't. I, I pick and choose and I discriminate on what's most important in my world and what's going to be most impactful for the clients that I serve. And I focus on that and I'll, I'll keep a little bit of a, of a dotted line connection to all the other fancy stuff that's going on just to stay in the know. But the stuff that I really spend the bulk of my time diving into are the things that are most applicable to what I do every day. And that's really the only way that I found to keep your sanity with as fast as everything uh, is evolving. Um, uh, this was a fun segment of the webinar because there was a real quick transition as soon as that clip Ended. You chimed in with comment about navigating the nervousness. And they just jumped right. Like you didn't even have time to ask them a question about it. They just jumped right in with some commentary, and it resulted in, uh, this next clip that we've got here, where how do you go through the path of dealing, uh, with that kind of sense of being overwhelmed by all of these advancements? And I thought they did a good job really kind of guiding us through that.

Speaker D: Well, yeah, you want to be able to lead through change. Right? Um, and like you said, they. They've got some really great points. Let's hear from them on how they lead their teams for change.

Speaker A: Listen, I think that when you. When you have nervous, nervous team members, they have every right to be nervous. That's their human feelings. Right? So you have to acknowledge that.

Speaker C: Yes, first and foremost.

Speaker A: Right. You have to have empathy. You have to understand that we all have our limitations somewhere along the way. We're all limited at some capacity at some level. Right. And so, uh, we have to acknowledge that, then we move forward. And then we have to kind of like, like almost like little micro bites of, uh, showing them where they can use this to increase this. Hey, by the way. But if you do this way, it can respond to your emails. Hey, by the way, you could actually organize your calendar so you know, where you have extra time for the day. So little steps that would actually help them rather than feel like they're being taken over. I think it'd be the first smarter way to go about it.

Speaker D: Yeah, Justin, I like that.

Speaker B: I like that. And I think, think that gives. That kind of builds confidence. Bobby, that's great advice. I think that helps people see it's not so scary. And it's actually anytime you learn something new, it can be intimidating. That lets you kind of get your feet in the shallow end of the pool and go, oh, it's kind of nice in here. I kind of like it. Um, I've had loan officers that will use AI Uh for the first time to record just their side of a barber conversation, not the barber side, just their words. And ask them later on, uh, evaluate me how m am I doing? And chats, chat will say to them, you did this, this, and this well, but you did this part kind of poorly. You could do better. And they didn't know. They've been 25 years, same script. And assuming that the borrowers enjoyed that script, we got to be better. Because there might be a time where our competitors down the street or AI Justin, might Have a script that's better than the one I've used for the last 25 years. And I got to know about that.

Speaker C: Melissa, you had a really good list of, uh, suggestions. That was a follow up to, um, what Fabian and Justin were just talking about. Could you through that suggested list again for anyone who hasn't listened to the webinar yet?

Speaker D: Oh, yeah. So, um, I always suggest that companies create, uh, a committee of some, some sort, uh, whether it's a vision committee, a strategy committee, an innovation committee, whatever they want to call it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: They need a group of change champions. And this group has to be a diverse representation of your entire company. So it needs, needs to be sales and operations and compliance and marketing. Right. Um, and so it needs to be able to, um, encapsulate feedback from everybody on the pain points that they're seeing within their roles, um, and the areas and ideas that they have on how to, how to take things to the next level. And so when you start with that group, it does a couple of things. It, number one, puts everybody in the room, they can hear from one another, they can share ideas, they can gain perspective that they probably didn't have before on how, um, different roles within the organization are leveraging technology today or what their process looks like. And then the other thing it does is it gives you the ability of having people within the organization that get, uh, feedback from their teams on a regular basis to bring it into that room and then give feedback on why the company's making the decisions that they are and leaning into the AI solutions that they're in. But they're also going to help you to help the teams understand that you're listening to them and you're prioritizing the things that these roles feel like are most valuable too. And so it's one of the things I always suggest for companies to look at. And I know, uh, Fabi and Justin both had some good feedback on ways that they, they've seen this work to you.

Speaker C: Yeah, they did. Yeah. Let's listen to that.

Speaker A: Now if you get all these, uh, you know, departments in the, in the one room, you can actually brainstorm. Right. A and then find out like, is this going to impact somebody on the other side of the table?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I'm thinking, how's that going to go over in compliance? How can marketing support over here? Can we create a little, you know, playbook?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, on how to use best practices for AI for our company so everyone can actually have one message. I think that's one message always is way better for a company.

Speaker B: Yeah, well.

Speaker D: And I think it has to be very transparent. At the same time, I see a mixture of companies that are saying, hey, AI is not going to change anything in our. We're going to lean into it in this area and it's not going to change your world. Well, AI is going to change all of our roles, all of our roles across the entire industry. Across more than our industry. AI is changing how we do business.

Speaker B: Business.

Speaker D: And so I think it's really healthy for us to just acknowledge that with our teams. We recognize your role is going to change and so is mine. And we're going to.

Speaker A: Now with Jeremy Potter at ah, AI Summit last year at the Housing Wire. Wasn't you on stage with it with Jeremy Potter?

Speaker D: Oh, I was not on stage with Jeremy, but I've had Jeremy. Uh, Jeremy and I are great friends.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I always liked his view on this because he was, he was the only one that I felt that was so honest about saying, your roles are going to change, things are going to change. And it was such a very blunt but refreshing statement to hear.

Speaker D: Yes. I think we have to say that because the teams know it. Right. Everybody knows it. When we don't say it, they're like, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna interpret that message however they want to interpret it. So here's our opportunity to make sure that our teams know where we're going and bring them along with that message.

Speaker B: Message.

Speaker C: The question that, uh, that, that really hit me in that clip. How, how is this going to impact everyone else? Uh, that. That is, uh. I'm a firm believer in the law of unintended consequences, that when you don't analyze something from, from a complete set of angles, like you don't have to analyze it to death or death or overthink it to death, but if you're not taking into consideration how a decision is going to play downstream, then you're setting yourself up for potential heartache. I liked how you use this as a transition moment to, to talk about capacity and the, the way that AI can help, uh, overcome a lot of those capacity constraints, whether it's bandwidth or knowledge, uh, base or whatever the constraint happens to be. This was a really good response from both of them about how and leveraging AI properly can, uh, can help play a role in uh, man and impacting those capacity constraints.

Speaker B: I feel like on the operations side it'll be a level playing field that everyone continues to find ways using out of the box solutions like Oculus for Example to do loans faster, better, cheaper. And I expect that to happen at every company. And if they don't, then M. That's going to cost them dearly. My thoughts have been on the sales side. I've been on LinkedIn, yep. This for six months. That there's some disruption coming on the sales side where the person down the street from me, if they embrace AI and they can have a bigger capacity and scale themselves, might get more of my market share and I might not know it, I might not see it instantly, but it will slowly creep into where my lead that I'm nurturing poorly is going to get nurtured by them better. Uh, or even by a bigger company that um, that that's got um, AI agents that are calling my leads. That birthday that I forgot about might get remembered by somebody else. And so I've got to be, be either. I got to be Johnny on the spot with my system. Even if they're antiquated. I've got to be Johnny the spot with a calendar wall with a pen writing down dates on it or using AI solutions to make myself on the sales side and the recruiting side be better.

Speaker A: I, I don't see, um, a department that doesn't get affected. Melissa. Uh, in the mortgage arena. Right. Uh, because every position that we have in the companies is going to be affected. Um, whether they get told or not. The measuring sticks of how we measure, take metrics and milestones and so on and so on will start being skewed by what AI can do versus what the human being is doing by themselves.

Speaker D: Absolutely.

Speaker A: And so everyone has to have, is going to eventually have to rise up to that next level of whatever those new milestones will be. The point that I think that loan officers may be missing. Right. And this is really important for me to express to my team is that loan officers who use AI are going to outpace loan officers who don't use AI. And I can't say it any more bluntly than that. It's not like, you know, 40 years ago. Melissa and I always love this analogy. 40 years ago I would call the travel agent to take it, grab a ticket to, from here to, uh, Austin, Texas.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: My buddy and take care of me. Right. And they had this nice little leathery looking thing and he had my tickets in there and whatever. And today we use Expedia. And all I worry about is getting an aisle seat. Just give me an aisle seat. Right?

Speaker D: That's right.

Speaker A: And when do I use a travel agent? When I'm going to go maybe Go to Italy with my wife and I want to have somebody who specializes in Italian tours. Unfortunately, I think this is where loan officers who don't use AI are headed. They become that specialty loan officer that will still be needed, just may not be needed as much. And so I think loan officers have to understand that once again, the ability to do more loans is going to be really, really punctuated, uh, even more so with the use of AI.

Speaker D: Well, I love so many of Fabi's comments in that, his analogy to the travel agent. Um, I think it's really interesting to think about. Right, because we, you know, especially like folks like myself that talk about AI a ton. You, you see all the possibilities that are there. You also understand that consumers, frankly, are going to be using AI to educate themselves on what a mortgage is and what the right products should be. And so they're coming to you further up the funnel, probably a little bit better educated on what they need and want. So if you think about what the consumer experience looks like or should look like over the next 10 years, there's going to be some pretty drastic changes to that. Now, his point around having this kind of specialty experience I think is really interesting because if you really pull that thread all the way back to our industry, that's your first time home buyers, that's your first time investors, that's your life changing events happening. Uh, I want to retire and I need this to be a part of some bigger financial plan or strategy for me. And so loan officers, you know, as you're, for those of you that are listening, as you're kind of thinking about this, it's a really interesting thing to think about where your value really lies and how you continue to leverage AI and improve that value proposition over time so that you're not just stuck in this space of only serving first time home buyers, you're only serving, you know, that first time investor, for example. Example. That puts us in a really great spot where we can kind of transition to our next next topic, which I, I kind of talked about earlier in this podcast a little bit, but it's really around. Okay, now we know that AI has all of these possibilities. What are the right areas for us to be leaning into? Um, so that we're not delegating trust building activities to AI. So let's listen to Fabi and Justin, hear their thoughts on building trust, trust in AI and the right places that AI should live.

Speaker A: Just think about like data mining, your CRM.

Speaker B: Yep. Yeah.

Speaker A: Having an AI assistant kind of say, hey, fob, you should call Melissa because it looks like she's ready to. You mean the note? The rate is just about to hit that point.

Speaker D: Yep.

Speaker A: Having that agent available to give me that morning update. Uh, so I'm not asking the agent to call Melissa. I'll call it Melissa. Yeah, but having that agent tell me, that's the important part.

Speaker D: Justin, what do you think?

Speaker B: I agree. And there will always be trust building, rapport building moments that need, as recruiter or loan officer, need my voice, my words and need me with my full attention on that moment. Those are the moments I want to spend my time on. I'd rather have those moments to be um, what they need to be. Whether it's two minutes or 20 minutes. Then it's the same as taking an application. I used to take them by hand over the phone. Now it's done through an app that the borrower prefers, I prefer it, but that lets me spend. Save that half an hour of taking that over the phone app to more consultative approach and more discussions and more lead generation. So it's gonna. I think the loan officers that might trip and fall are the ones that want to outsource everything to an AI agent and they can do nothing but sit on the beach. That's a choice and I would not make that choice personally. And I think that choice, you'll pay the price. So, so let it do the things, the mundane things. Let it keep you at your best but still be Johnny, uh, on the spot or Joe on the spot.

Speaker C: Let it do the mundane things that you can still be front and center. I loved that that, that was the conclusion that was drawn. And, and you, you let into that with the, with your comment that wasn't in the clip but you let into that with your comment of you can't delegate that trust, uh, responsibility like you can't outsource, uh, the, the human side of things. I've been reading a lot articles and a, ah, couple books that are talking about how do you, how do you humanize AI? And I just kind of laugh at some of the conclusions some, that some people are drawing. I was like, well isn't that just called being yourself? What is it that, that you think AI is actually doing for you? Because if you're, if you're trying to get a version of AI that replaces you, why on earth would you want to do that? Because now you've just extricated yourself and it's like what we were talking about uh, before. If it's something that you can do with AI, a whole bunch of Other people can do it too. It just uh, it's just a matter maybe they've already figured it out or maybe it's just going to be a matter of time before they figure it out. But you've got to continually be inserting yourself into that uh, into that relationship because that's the reason why people are coming to you in the first place. So with that as we kind of rounded out uh, or as y' all kind of rounded out the webinar, you, you did uh, your other always question of uh, uh, asking for future predictions. Uh, it was interesting you did from the perspective of the corporate side and then the individual mortgage professional side. And so we've got kind of two halves of the same, uh, of the same coin. Uh, in this last response. So let's take a look at or listen into what Fabian and Justin both had to say about that.

Speaker A: That it seems like a very broad question. Right. Because it's, it's right. It's a very like. So it depends on, on what you're actually looking for. Right. But I mean if, if we're going to be talking about the future and future leaders. Right. I haven't heard this yet but I do wonder at what, what, what time do we have a, like a uh, Cai Chief. Right. Yeah, it is. Is does that person become the leader that then starts to set the, the tempo and the pace that we all operate from. Um, because they're more in line with technology and they're aligning it to our corporate needs and measurements and success and that sort. Um, and so that's in my head is what I've been thinking about.

Speaker B: Uh, well, you asked for predictions. It's World cup time. I predict the US wins the World Cup. Hey, we had a great first game. Okay, I'll move on. Uh, I think the leadership that will win in this space will be the leadership that is in the middle. Not the leadership that is uh, afraid and old fashioned. Not the fearless leadership that's foolish and spends foolish dollars. Somewhere in the middle lies uh, an open eye, an open ear, an open brain to what can help us reduce cost scale ourselves. Um, maybe even have more time to enjoy this business. It's gotten tougher. This business has gotten harder the last couple of years. A lot of headwinds. So maybe we can build in some time to have some enjoyment come of this AI relief we're getting. But companies that I think are too which swing too much either direction are going to be hurt either by being not fast enough to the fight or jumping into the fight too fast and paying for it later. We've already heard AI companies that have been, uh, Pizza Hut, I think just scaled back some massive of losses from jumping too fast into pizza delivery. Who would have thought? Um, but they're, they're now crying about that. It's a fast. You want to be first of the fight, but you don't want to be foolish. I'm excited about this because, uh, I'm not a gatekeeper for industry, but I do feel like we have been lacking the next generation to jump in and enjoy being a mortgage banker. Uh, commission. But I've already seen, and I hope this is soon with Microsoft Pilot or Claude, someone that's safe. I want to see that new loan officer that hasn't really been trained all that well, be able just to let in our case pilot hear the conversation with the borrower, protect that information and when it's done, go. Okay, Justin, they mentioned, uh, real development. Be careful of this. They mentioned this. Be careful that this might be. And give me. Help me. Like an assistant would be a loan officer with years of experience that I don't have. I'd love to see that happen.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think as an industry, we probably have to do more outreach to colleges.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and actually show them what the mortgage industry is like. Um, I mean, I know Namba with Tony Thompson, they were doing that for a while. They did a pretty good job with that as well. Um, but overall, as an industry, I don't know what, what our initiatives are because it's weird, Melissa. I mean, it's almost, it's almost a huge industry, but it's also a very secret industry.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, you don't hear about this industry growing up as a kid or the high school or even college. Right. It's not, it's not a course. There's no courses on mortgages or finance, or I guess there is finance, but mortgages, specifically in mortgages and real estate. Uh, and I think if we kind of create some kind of outreach program to talk about more about the mortgage professional and how that could be a viable career for anybody. Uh, I think that's going to generate interest, whether with AI or without AI.

Speaker D: Two important things they talked about. One would be how do we bring in the next generation of mortgage professional. And that's the, uh, you know, outreach to colleges and, you know, setting them up for success with maybe AI tools that can help give them more knowledge and experience around, you know, uh, those specialty situations which we've talked about already. Right. To really only gain by Being in the industry for, for a period of time. And then the other is, are there other roles that are coming to our industry? We talk about that a little bit. Are there, are there new opportunities for folks to be stepping in and leaning into, um, driving the change that our industry really should be seeing? And for those of you that have listened to this podcast a lot, you know that I talk about like, changing operating models, like, this is an opportunity for our industry to really kind of rethink operating models. And so having roles that are like a Chief AI Officer, a Chief Innovation officer, things like that, I think are really critical to driving that change and doing it the right way. Just implementing a new piece of technology, but really making it a core foundation of who you are and being able to fully see an ROI on the solutions that you're investing in.

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, I think that's spot on. And whether or not you actually have a C suite or C level position for AI, I think that the title is, is less relevant than having somebody who is the owner of that component of your strategy, uh, in the future. If you don't have that now, you really need to, you need to identify quickly whether it's somebody in house or somebody that you're bringing in from the outside. Maybe, maybe it could even be a consultant like you, you or I. But it still needs to be somebody who is the internal champion as, as you, you, ah, put it so well earlier in the podcast. They have to be that internal champion who's not only spearheading, um, the innovation and the efforts that you're putting, uh, into leveraging AI, but also, uh, is doing a really good job of expressing to the rest of the organization the importance of why you're taking that track and why you're taking that, taking uh, that so seriously. So the conversation will continue in the very near future. We've got another great, uh, episode of Future Proof coming up in a couple weeks where, um, we're going to be talking specifically, uh, about something that's near and dear to my heart, which is TCPA compliance. Yeah, uh, and a lot of, A lot of compliance things. So we've got a couple of great guests. One is a return guest, one of our favorites. And, uh, so tell us a little bit about our next episode. What's coming up?

Speaker D: That's right. Yeah, we're going to be digging into the future of t TCPA regulation. So, yes, we've got some great guests queued, um, up for you and a great conversation around what everybody should and could be expecting around TCPA regulation. So, uh, we'll see you guys back here again in two weeks.

Speaker C: All right, folks, that's it for today's podcast. Thank you so much for spending time out of your day with us, and we always appreciate that. Hope that you have a great rest of your week and enjoy, uh, these, uh, these early summer months. Hopefully it's not getting too hot for you. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. To learn more about the Future Proof webinar series, visit praxislendingsolutions.com futureproof if you're interested in connecting with Melissa to discover how Praxis can help restructure and refine your operational workflow, connect with her at praxislendingsolutions.com if you are a founder, executive or head of marketing and you want to find out how to tell a more compelling story and connect with your ideal client, Visit James@kyloumadvisors.com youm can also find our hosts on LinkedIn and connect there. We'll see you on the next episode of the Future Proof podcast.

Speaker B: Sam.