Hugo Toovey: Turning a Cancer Journey into a Movement

Sadhana Smiles: The presenting partner of today's episode is Saxton Speakers, Australia's leading speakers bureau. At Saxton, they know that the right speaker can be the most powerful part of any event, leaving a lasting impression that sticks with your audiences long after the final applause. With decades of experience, Sexton's team will match you with your perfect speaker, uh, emcee or entertainer to elevate your event, delivering energy, insight and inspiration, like Noel's partner with Sexton, and give your audience an experience they'll never forget.

Hugo Toovey: You know your body better than anyone, so if someone says to you, oh, uh, those bowels playing up, it's probably nothing, and you're sitting there going, no, no, no, this is not right. You can advocate, like you said, for your own health. You can be productive. You can keep pushing for that because it is your body and your health at the end of the day.

Sadhana Smiles: Welcome to Future Fit Leadership, a podcast for leaders at every stage who want to stay relevant in a world that keeps changing. Leadership leadership has shifted. The pace is faster, the expectations are higher, and the future is calling for a different kind of leader. One who is human centered, grounded and able to balance capability with empathy. These conversations bring together global perspectives on the skills and mindsets that help people and organizations thrive. Hello and welcome to Future Fit Leadership. I hope wherever you are listening to this podcast, you are well. This week is Men's Health Week and there's no better time to have a conversation that could genuinely save someone's life. What would it take for you to finally go to the doctor? For most of us, the honest answer is something going seriously wrong. And that's exactly the problem. Today's guest has dedicated his life to changing. Hugo Toovey was a young army officer. He was fit, disciplined, part of a tight knit team. When he found a lump, he chose to ignore it. It didn't hurt. It didn't seem insignificant. His life was busy. But the problem was that while Hugo was getting on with life, cancer was spreading throughout his body. And he was only 21 years old. What followed was years of treatment, chemotherapy, major surgeries, recovery, setbacks. And then, just when he thought he, he was through it and had his five year clearance, a, uh, second cancer diagnosis was made. Most people would struggle to comprehend. Facing one life threatening illness in their 20s, Hugo faced two. But this conversation isn't simply about cancer. It's about what happens when life takes away the certainty you thought you had. It's about learning to advocate for yourself when something doesn't feel right. It's about understanding the difference between physical illness and mental illness and why both deserve equal attention. One of the most powerful parts of our conversation is Hugo's honesty about the emotional toll of what he experienced. The fear, the loneliness, the pressure to appear strong when behind closed doors, he was struggling. He shares openly about reaching a point when he realised resilience isn't about carrying the burden alone, it's about letting people help carry it with you. Today, Hugo is the founder of 25 Stay Alive, a uh, charity dedicated to changing the way young Australians think about their health. His message is simple but powerful. Don't wait until you're 50 to start taking your health seriously. Build the habits, ask the questions and have the checks. And most importantly, know your body. Now, as Men's Health Week reminds us, perhaps prevention, early intervention and connection matter. This is what saves lives. Your health and your time are your most valuable assets. And we often think health is about getting through the day. The reality is that the habits and checkups and choices you make now are, uh, building the foundation for the life you will live two decades from now. This conversation is a reminder that health advocacy starts with each of us. It starts with paying attention, it starts with speaking up, and sometimes it starts with trusting your gut when something doesn't feel right. Hugo's story is confronting, inspiring and deeply human. Well, good morning, Hugo. Welcome to Future Fit Leadership. How are you today?

Hugo Toovey: Good morning, Sadna. Thank you for having me. It's really good to be here.

Sadhana Smiles: I'm looking forward to our conversation. Now, you will start at going back to your time in Adelaide. You. Do you still live in Adelaide at the moment?

Hugo Toovey: Uh, no, I live in Sydney, but I'm actually recording this. I'm actually at my dad's in Adelaide. I did workshop last night. So I often. I travel, travel back. So it's always good to be back home, as I still refer to, Refer to it as being home.

Sadhana Smiles: Yeah. So you, you were born in Adelaide and you joined the army at a very young age, straight out of school. What made you do that? Was there, was it the discipline that attracted to you, or did you want to serve your country? Like, what was the reason for you?

Hugo Toovey: To be honest, the main one was just being unsure of what I wanted to do in life. And I had wonderful upbringing, great schooling, you know, I was always smart enough to choose a career path that I could have gone down. I just, I was just a bit lost and I think, um, it's a, it's a funny time when you're navigating that and everyone's, you know, Locked in. You want to be a doctor, I want to be a lawyer, I want to be this, I want to be that. And I was one of those guys who's like, I've got no idea what I wanted to do. And I probably was a little bit lost. And I think my parents are maybe worried that I was going to do the old gap year that turned into 10 gap years and not have that clear direction. So my dad actually found this officer pathway called the Australian Defence Force Academy, where you got to study. So I really wanted to get a degree and you got to study, you get a degree and in the background you do a few years of army training and then if you're successful in graduating, you go across the hill to Dun Troon, which is, which is a pretty brutal 12 months of just army training. And then after four years you graduate. And, uh, I was very fortunate enough to graduate and I was a, ah, young lieutenant, um, in the Australian Army. After four years of training, how did

Sadhana Smiles: you find the training? What was the best thing that you found about the training with the army?

Hugo Toovey: Absolutely, the camaraderie and the mateship and that real heavy focus on a team environment. I just loved. And to this day, two of the groomsmen at my wedding, um, we've got group chats. You know, a few, few guys in particular, basically met them day one army training, and 16 years later we're still best mates. And I think, you know, even more so than my old schoolmates who I went to school with for a decade. I think it's just because you share a lot. You go through some pretty difficult training times and you're outfield and you, you're forced to open up and just get around each other. And I think it creates really great bonds. And I love that part of army training is that you, you know, you're all there for each other. And that whole army mentality is always have your mates back, you know, um, in a field environment and in everyday life. I love that metaphor of always being there for your mates.

Sadhana Smiles: Now, it wasn't long after you, you joining the army that your life took a turn. You found a lump and you ignored it the first time you found it. So maybe tell our listeners where the lump was and why did you ignore it?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, so I know the date well. It was 18th of June, uh, my dad's birthday. And I remember calling my old man and wished him happy birthday. And then on a completely unrelated side then I very almost awkwardly and kind of embarrassed said, dad, I've got this lump on my right testicle. What do you think? And dad just said, mate, how long's it been there? And I remembered vividly, I said, oh, it's been there for over six months. Um, and you know, it's, um, you know, it's painless, it doesn't hurt, you know, it feels okay. And then he said, mate, why don't you go and get checked, you know, stop, stop being an idiot. Golf to your doctor. And I literally, that afternoon walked into the army sick parade and saw a doctor. And from that little frozen pea sized lump on my right testicle, uh, from that point, you know, I embarked on the next few years of very challenging times. Because me putting that little lump off meant the cancer spread through your body. And I was kind of forced to learn at a very young age the importance of early detection, of going off to your doctor if something's not right. And I definitely didn't do that as a young 21 year old bloke.

Sadhana Smiles: And that's so common, isn't it, Hugo? It's just not blokes, it's women as well. You know, you, you check yourselves on a regular basis or you may not, and you may do it on an odd basis and you find something and the first thing your head goes to, oh, it'll be fine. Or, you know, or you go to Google and you Google it and then Google tells you something completely different. I think it's be great to do a call out to people at this point, particularly the young ones, to say, you know, because I think also when you're young, you don't think anything bad's gonna happen to you. You sort of have this, um, I'm iron M man or iron woman mentality, isn't it? Happens to older people.

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, for sure. And I think that's, we'll talk about later, the sort of motive in starting my charity and the work we do. But you're spot on. Young people typically think that you're invincible, you're bulletproof. And I always, if you're listening to this and you know, cast your minds back to when you're in your sort of early 20s or your mid-20s, you typically are fit and healthy and you can eat what you want and you can drink what you want and you just, you know, rock up the next day and you go for runs and you're fit and you're healthy and your health isn't typically a priority. And I'm not talking about the eating well and being fit sort of health, I'm talking about that like you said that the self checks or the, you know, my bowels shouldn't be playing up like this. I should probably go and get checked and just that part of your life, typically we don't get taught that at an earlier age. So what happens is you go through life and you're kind of, you're not sure even how or where or who to speak to when it comes to seeing a gp and the longer you leave it, the harder it gets. And, um, we're just trying to rewire that. And actually, I'm wearing the. Some merch now. And our motto is 25's the new 50. Um, and that's in a health sense of. We're flipping that narrative of saying, instead of waiting till you're 50, till you get your screening test and your preventative screens and you, you hear it all the time when someone turns 50, it's like, geez, I'm getting on a bit, I'm old now, I better bloody start taking myself a bit seriously. We're saying, no, we should be having these conversations much earlier on in life and using that 25 age as kind of that metaphorical milestone mark to say 25 is the new 50. Things like bowel cancer now kills more young Australians aged 25 to 45 than any other cancer. It's not just this older person's cancer. Yet the conversations for young people, they're still not understanding the fact that they're not bulletproof, they're not invincible. And it's something I'm pretty passionate about. Yeah.

Sadhana Smiles: And I think also, I don't know whether I read it or heard it somewhere a little while ago now, which I now do in my life, is the decisions you make at the age that you are right now. So whether you're 25 or 45 or 60 or whatever it is, the decisions you make about your health at that point in time plays out 20 years later. So, you know, if at 25 you want to be healthy at 50, you need to start doing it at 25, not at 50. You're absolutely right.

Hugo Toovey: I'll have to get that, um, that little quote from you, Ah, Sadna. And incorporate that to our messaging, because that's a really powerful point. It's people whether it's now and they still think that I am healthy. And I did get that clear check up. But you're setting the foundations. And you're right, if you're doing that earlier on in life, then by the time you are 50, you'll be all over it. You would have had a GP you've seen for years, you'd know what to look out for, you know what to kind of spot the signs. And when your mental health starts to fluctuate and all these conversations that I'm passionate about talking about, you're spot on. Um, I really love that if you start that now, you lay the foundations and then 20 years time, you know, you're good to go.

Sadhana Smiles: Yeah. Now, the type of cancer you had was very aggressive and as you said, it had spread. You're 21 years old. Take me back to that point in time. How did you feel and how did you manage the news that was given to you?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, it's a very interesting stage of your life, you know, and for me, I, uh, put off the, continued the chemotherapy and the treatment until I graduated. And it was a weird moment even that. And it was. The specialist team didn't recommend it, but I wanted to graduate with my mate to my cohort. So we literally put off treatment even though I had cancer all through my body. So you can imagine you're rocking back up, going out field, continue your army training knowing you had cancer through your body. And I was even then, didn't tell hardly anybody at, at Dun Trune, outside of a couple close mates. And that was mainly because I didn't want to be known as that, uh, you know, the young bloke with cancer. And that was the reason I graduated. I wanted to do it, um, on my own merit. I worked hard to get to that point and I didn't want cancer to, to take over my identity. I wanted to still be that, that young future officer that, that did it on his own. And he was a bit of an, an isolating and lonely place though, when you kind of. I didn't have a partner at the stage you're living interstate and you know you're going to bed at night, you can imagine the ruminating thoughts that go through your mind.

Sadhana Smiles: And I was just going to ask you, Hugo, sorry to jump in there, but it's exactly what's going to ask you. So you haven't shared it with anyone. Clearly your family know you're trying to get through the army training, but how did you manage your mental health around this? Because it would have just been eating you up inside.

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, and it did. And to be honest with you, not well. And that's an important part of my story that we'll, we'll touch on throughout is that early on I, I kind of put up that, put on that mask or that literal uniform and that was kind Of I kind of hid behind that in a way. And I think early on I was. I was told a few times, whether it was from close mates or family, you know, geez, you're so inspiring and Jesus strong, mate. I don't know how you do it. And I think the more I heard that, the more I felt like that was the person I had to be. Even though behind closed doors, I wasn't that person all the time. We all know that you can't always be that super strong, positive, happy, motivational, inspiring person. You know, there are times where you have to just take off that mask and say, I'm struggling, I need help. I can't do this by myself. And I did not do that well at all. And over the years, you know, I felt like I kept having to take this burden. And for me, it was a tough one too, because I already felt like I was, you know, something like cancer impacts more than just you. It impacts your family and your friends and your loved ones. And I felt for my parents and my mum and, you know, having to watch their, you know, their child go through something like that. And so for me, I'm like, well, I'm already causing them enough pain and being a burden in regards to them having to look after me, even though I knew that that's not how they looked at it, it's how I kind of viewed it. So I'm like, well, I can't. And on top of that sale, by the way, I'm really struggling here with my mental health and I need some help. You know, I was a young bloke in his 20s, and I just felt like, you know what? I'm going through enough that that can wait. And over the years, it got harder and harder to carry that weight until it got to, uh, you know, some really, really difficult days. And we can talk about that. But, yeah, to answer your question, I didn't handle it very well. I'm understanding of the person I was because I was young and I was in my 20s and I wasn't navigating this cancer that spread through my body while still trying to complete very arduous military training. So I'm understanding of why I didn't share it and why I wasn't open and vulnerable and I wasn't good at expressing my emotions. But had I done it again, I would have done it differently. And I know a hell of a lot more now, all these years later. And as you know, the listeners will find out, unfortunately, I've gone through, through more than just that. You do realize why it's important to let people in, because they're there to help you.

Sadhana Smiles: Yeah. So you started your treatment. Tell me what recovery looked like for you during that time, or, you know, treatment and then recovery and again, you know, going back to your own mental health. Were there days where you sat there and thought, you know, why me? How am I going to get energized? How can I keep doing this?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, I think once I graduated and then a few days later, after graduation, started the chemotherapy, that was. That was very tough. You know, chemotherapy is different for different. It's different for each cancer. And there's even some cancers have different types of chemo. And so some people lose their hair. Some people can still work. Some people, um, you know, can still go to the gym. Some people are really sick. So it can vary. For me, I was one of those cancer patients you see on the Hollywood movies. Typically, with testicular cancer, it's young. It's typically young men. So they can. They can throw a lot of. Lot of the chemo at you, and typically you can kind of bounce back. But I was very sick, very unwell, lost all my hair, my face sort of puffed out from these sort of side steroids. I was taking them. I remember looking at myself in the mirror this stage. I would have been 22 back in Adelaide. My military career clearly clicked. Pause. And I looked at myself in the mirror, and, you know, there's this photo that I also reflect on, and I've just got this. This person I looked at was just not who I was. And I just didn't even recognize him. The person I was looking at the mirror. And you can imagine as a young bloke, navigating your 20s when you're meant to be out, you know, on the dating scene and going to pubs and enjoying life and being social, I very much just hardly left the house. Um, I was embarrassed. Even if I went to the shops down the road, I'd be so embarrassed if someone looked at me thinking, like, you know, they're just judging me. And I feel really sorry for the person. I was having to go through all of that, uh, very isolating time for anybody, let alone that age. And it was very challenging. I got through it. I fortunately did have some great family support. Uh, and for me, it was just getting through that sort of big chunk of six months or so. And then I had the pretty major, major surgery following that. And then as soon as I got told, the whole, mate, I know it's been a tough time, but the Good news is it looks like we've got all the cancer. And as soon as I kind of heard that part of, you know, the treatment where you go through and everyone strives towards, and I knew that I'd get through the next weeks, months, years, because I was cancer free. And that was kind of all I needed to hear. Uh, and I was in full then recovery mode to get back to being physically and mentally healthy.

Sadhana Smiles: How did the army support you through all of this?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, they were fantastic. You know, I'm still in all these years later, albeit I'm starting my, you know, my transition out with, with everything else going on, but especially those early days. Unbelievable. You know, I've just graduated and I went on compassionate posting and they basically just said, take as much time as you need to get better, to be with family. And they don't even question it. And often we hear the not so good stories of the army if someone gets kicked out and they, you know, they weren't looked after and, but for me, I've had nothing but positive experiences and whether it's through the, you know, the, the bosses and the, the way that I look up to them with their method of leadership and how they showed empathy during these difficult times. Some of the best leaders I've had are the ones that let me in on some, some things they were going through and you know, let their guard down a bit and they just. The ability to show empathy during these times but still be a fantastic military leader, um, is something that I can absolutely, um, idolize to be and have that way of leadership in my own, in my own way of, of going about even day to day life. So yeah, the army's been fantastic.

Sadhana Smiles: That's an important point, isn't it Hugo? Because even if we just take, put the army aside, a lot of people who go through um, anything major in their life, they do need to step away from work. And it's important that those who, you know, those leaders who run those businesses still stay connected and provide some level of support because work is quite often how we define ourselves. And when you are faced with a uh, battle like you were, you kind of want to know that that's something you can go back to.

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, it's a great point. I think when you're going through something like cancer or a significant illness or health challenge, you're right, like that is your priority. And then, you know, you've got your family support and you just want to get better. But then for those that then might, you know, not have employment or a job or that financial support, it can just add this another layer on top of what they're going through. And you know, it's often why you see people go through you GoFundMe pages and they're just trying to get support because some of these cancer treatment and you know, the, the experimental um, immunotherapy drugs and trials and, and the hospital stays, it can be so expensive and they just get these massive hospital bills and, and to then to potentially be out of a job, to then not have the financial, you know, capacity to then support their treatment. You can imagine how like having to click, you know, post on these GoFundMes, kind of opening yourself up to everyone. It'd be such a hard thing to do to literally ask for money to pay for your treatment to live. And even though people are kind of like, yeah, I'll get around you, I'll support you kind of, it's a really challenging time because like I said, you're having to worry about so much already. And for me it was one thing I just didn't have to worry about was the financial support with, through my health treatment and knowing I had a job once I got better to go back to, I could just kind of go, okay, that's my safety blanket.

Sadhana Smiles: Focus on yourself. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and so you did, you got the all clear, you went back into the army, uh, which would have been an incredible moment for you to, to experience. Did you go back to the people you had qualified with? Did you go back the same team? Uh, what was that like?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, it was, it was great. You know, I still, even during chemo I went in when I could, one or two days a week and I was just doing a little bit of, bit of work for a headquarters based in Adelaide. Um, you know, and people knew, obviously you could just look at me. I was very unwell, but I still wanted to where I could try and work. But you know, I didn't do a hell of a lot. But once I kind of recovered and you know, got the all clear scans, I did start my transition back into work. I built it up. It was initially at the team that looked after me. Um, and then I got, after a couple years I, I got a different posting to in Adelaide where I could then have a, have a team under me and I was going out field and I was doing what I want, you know, trained to do and I was doing PT and I was physically fit. And this went on for, for a couple years, right up until mid 2018. I was 26 and I got the five year all clear scan for the testicular cancer. So these years kind of turn into like big milestones. The yearly clear scan that, the two yearly. And then everyone who can listen and relate to this, they often strive towards um, the five year clear scan. And for me, I was physically fit, doing really well, back at work full time. And I got this five year scan, clear scan. I'd been posted to Brisbane. So my partner and I packed up our lives, moved, moved us and our dogs, moved to Brisbane, got this five clear scan and I was in complete remission. And it was this beautiful moment after everything I'd gone through, kind of, you know, losing all those years in my twenties, to be honest, those, those really important years. But I felt like I'm 26 now, I've got my whole life ahead of me. How good is this? I can literally click resume on my life. And I remembered, you know, cracking a bottle of Verve champagne and we kind of had this cheers and we celebrated and it was a beautiful moment to have that sort of sense of freedom and just happiness. And I remembered going to work the next day and you know, really enjoying what I was doing. And then I even got tapped on the shoulder and said, there's a deployment opportunity to go overseas. And even then I thought, geez, how good is this? You know, health clear scan, moved to Brisbane with my partner, got lined up for deployment overseas, which is, you know, what I always wanted to do. Um, and then all of a sudden things just changed very quickly, you know, when my bows started playing up and, and uh, yeah, from that point on it's um, you know, looking at that time that, that sense of freedom, happiness, that little few month period I'm talking about was, was pretty short lived because

Sadhana Smiles: even though you'd been given the five year clearance, you had a, uh, second cancer. And it wasn't testicular, it was bowel cancer this time.

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, correct. And so one of the biggest things I'd learned over the years is me putting off that little frozen pea sized lump for over six months spread through my body. I was so aware of my body and changes and I knew the importance of, you know, if something's not right, knowing your normal. And my normal is different to uh, your normal, that's different to anyone listening to this normal, but knowing your version of your normal and if something's not quite right and it changes to go, you know what, that shouldn't be there. These bowels are playing up more than my normal. And I've always had a bit of Inconsistent gut, you know, food sensitivities. It wasn't uncommon, but this was worse than my normal. And I said to Amber one night, I said, look, this is, I'm getting up during the night. I've, you know, I've got these loose bowel movements. The urgency is just like, literally, oh, God, I really have to go to the toilet. Like, it just, it just didn't feel right. And I said, you know what, I'm gonna go go see my GP and saw my army GP and, and given my history and everything I got, they ran a few tests and even then they said, look, probably best plan is to just, you know, keep monitoring it. You know, we can put you on a few little medications just to see you might have some little viral bug or something that we can, we can get on top of. And I thought, didn't think much of it. And, and then it kind of kept going on for another week, another two weeks. And I went back and said, no, this isn't right. I want to have a colonoscopy. And, you know, a lot of 26 year olds probably wouldn't even know what a colonoscopy is. And then for me to basically kind of say, I want a colonoscopy because I just did not feel right, uh, given everything I'd gone through. They said, okay, you know what, fair enough. We're understanding this guy. He's had a pretty, pretty full on five years or so. So they sent me off to a colonoscopy, um, after I was referred to a gastroenterologist, had this colonoscopy, uh, out of interest, have you had one? Sad.

Sadhana Smiles: No, no, I haven't, no.

Hugo Toovey: No. It's a pretty, pretty standard day procedure. Camera goes up your bum, has a look what's going on inside. It's the best way for them to sort of see if there's gut inflammation, you know, whatever's going on. And I remember I had this great 15 minute power nap. You wake up, you're a bit out of it. You've had two days of bloody, of, uh, bowel cleanse. And then I remembered having this great turkey sandwich and biscuit and a sip of tea, and I'm still a little bit out of it, feeling pretty good. And then all of a sudden, Terry, my gastroenterologist, came over and he said, hugo, uh, um, you had some nasty polyps, which is pretty unusual for your age, but they're, uh, quite large. And he said, look, it's probably nothing, but look, we've burnt them off and we've sent them off for a biopsy. You'll get the results back. I don't expect to be anything too serious, mate, but let's see you in two weeks regardless. We'll talk next steps. You had a bit of, a bit of inflammation going on, but, you know, let's see you in two weeks. I remember leaving that um, appointment. My wife picked me up, went to work the next day, typing away at my desk in my army uniform and I got a call from Terry's receptionist and she said, hugo, Terry needs to see you. And I thought, oh yeah, and yeah, well, yeah, I said, look, I'm, I've already booked in to see him. I've got an appointment scheduled. She said, no, no, Terry needs to see this afternoon. The results came back. And as soon as you hear that a specialist wanting to see you that day, typically, you know, it's not good news. And straight away I remember I just had this sick feeling in your stomach, you know, where you just, We've all had that. You can't even have a sip of water and you just like, you feel sick, your stomach's just twisting and turning and my wife's a nurse and she just finished a shift at the hospital so it was quite good timing and we worked quite close together and I remember picking her up and my default Hugo of those years in, uh, that, you know, my 20s, that mask, I was kind of cracking jokes, I was pretending I was fine, but I was so scared. And Amber later tells me that she was equally as scared being a nurse and she knew what was potentially going to happen. And we went to this appointment together and, and yeah, Terry just called us in, sat us down and said, you've got, unfortunately, um, you've got bowel cancer. Um, and it's a, ah, an aggressive type of bowel cancer. He said, the only silver lining though is you got it early enough to give yourself the best possible chance. And then he said this comment, which I'll always remember. He said, in a strange way, testicular cancer has saved your life and he's spot on. There was no way as a 26 year old bloke if it wasn't for what I had gone through and uh, learned the importance of, like I said, being super proactive, pushing for that colonoscopy, trusting my gut, quite literally trusting my gut. A lot of doctors, and understandably so, 26 year old comes out. I didn't have blood in my stool, you know, I was still working. It's not like I was like in excruciating pain. They would have probably just said, yep, we'll review you in a few months mate, we'll put you on these meds. And and I had this aggressive high uh, bowel cancer that it can very quickly spread beyond the bowel. When bowel cancer spreads beyond the bout it to other organs, you go from like a 75 year survival rate to almost under 10%. Five year survival rates, like that's how significant it is. And unfortunately young people are dying from bowel cancer because they are either getting diagnosed too late and once you're stage four it's very challenging to treat it because chemo just isn't really that effective with that particular bowel cancer. And um, so he'd already booked me in for a surgery to take out a big chunk of my bowel and that was it. You can imagine that being on top of the world only two or three months earlier. Five year scan lined up for a deployment. Just living my life as young 26 year old Hugo. In a matter of moments, it's almost just like that. It was cruel with the timing of it to kind of say he's had it, he's had enough of being up on up enjoying his life, let's bring him right back down to the bottom. And that was like, that just killed me the whole, I have to go through this again with an entirely new cancer. It had nothing to do with testicular cancer. It wasn't a, a relapse, it wasn't a secondary, it was a new primary cancer. I've since had genetic um, testing done just to see. They thought, geez, this is so unusual, you might have mutated genes. And I didn't want to potentially pass it on to my kid one day. No mutated genes, nothing at all. They've done cases on me team disciplinary meetings at St. Vincent's all sorts of stuff. And they've honestly put it down to a bit of bad luck which um, doesn't help the situation when you're going through it with the timing and the, you know, this literally stripping away your life. It's um, it was quite, quite uh, a lot to take in as you can imagine. But it really, from that point, which we can discuss to now, you know, my life's been, you know that the collateral damage from. I've now had 14 abdominal surgeries and I'm missing so much bow now because I've just had post complications and issues and all these different surgeries. And even though they got the cancer early days, which is great, I'm grateful that I'M still here. People don't often talk about, you know, the collateral damage side of to get to this stage and still ongoing. Sitting here today with a permanent ileostomy and a major surgery on in back end of last year which was my most significant surgery. It's something that can be pretty relentless. It's not just like a yep, I got rid of the cancer and now I'm back living my normal life. Like I'm missing so much of my internal makings of what makes a human body. So it impacts your day to day quite significantly. But I am still here and you know I do thank my myself for, for being proactive and a lot of people unfortunately you know, aren't as lucky as I am to to share their story because they found it too late.

Sadhana Smiles: I hope you're enjoying our conversation. A quick word from our sponsor. Have you ever wondered how to attract, develop and augment diverse leadership capability in your organization? Well, Future Leadership has a range of leadership solutions including executive search, interim executives, leadership development programs, coaching and workforce transformation specialists. They are an Australian owned B corp and one of very few globally accredited and connected talent solution firms. They are very proud of their 22 year history bringing more diverse leadership to Australian decision making tables. See the link in our show notes to get in touch with them. I want to talk about what your life is like right now, but I just want to go back to, you know, when you got the second diagnosis of cancer in your bowels. How, how different was it the second time around? And, and how did you manage it this the second time? Because you knew, you kind of knew the journey you were going to be on from the first load of chemo and you know, everything else that you went through was it different the second time around? And I mean, you know, as you said, there was a little bit of bad luck. Did you at any point go, why me?

Hugo Toovey: Oh, um, absolutely. I've had that. I still have those thoughts. You know, it'd be weird if I didn't, I think. And for me it was a lot harder than the first. Absolutely harder than the first diagnosis. And I think that's because when I was the first one, I was almost quite ignorant. I was like this young, naive guy that knew nothing about cancer and that people die from this stuff and it's pretty serious. I was kind of, yeah, I had, it had its separate challenges of my identity and how I looked and what I was going through, but I'd never kind of questioned my mortality or thought that I was gonna die. You know, I never Once thought that with my first diagnosis, whereas my second one. At this stage, I was a bit older, more experienced, had gone through more in life, naturally, knew more about cancer and the health space and everything I had gone through. And I was a bit of an advocate back then, started to share my story a bit. So because I knew more about it, and even then I knew that bowel cancer wasn't a great cancer to have. Not that any cancer is, but bowel cancer in particular, you know, if you don't get that thing early, it can. It can be a pretty slippery slope. So I think I felt scared and the whole, huh, what if I don't make it? Whereas I didn't have that thought process for the first lot. So naturally that starts to eat away at you and you're thinking, I've got this major surgery, how my bowel is going to be different, I have to live with a stoma. What if I don't make it? What if I don't get the cancer? What if it returns? All these things going through your mind made it way harder because I knew more. And I wasn't this naive, ignorant young bloke anymore. I was this more experienced with life person that knew what was happening and that made me more scared. And I think I really struggled with that. And, you know, I remember leaving that doctor's appointment and I just burst into tears. And up until that point, I hadn't had many times in my life where I properly cried. And this, it was almost like that weight I was talking about before was just like, uh, I can't do this. And I was just like, I was just so upset. And I remember trying to call my parents and I was, you know, so emotional on the phone, shouldn't tell them what had just happened. And once again I realized that here we go again. You know, I'm causing so much pain to my loved ones, my parents, my family. Even though I couldn't help it, I felt like, you know, they would. They were hurting too. Because something like cancer, like I said before, it has this ripple effect and impacts so many people. And all of a sudden it's like they're thinking, oh, fuck, here we go again. And so what did I do? That sort of, that mass, that sort of, you know, that guard came back where I kind of distanced myself from, from letting them in because I felt like, no, you know what? They're already doing enough. I can't let them know that I'm really struggling here. And I just watched my mental health decline over the years and Unfortunately, I didn't get any professional help, and. And I felt like I didn't need it and I could get through it myself. And once again, I was the strong, positive Hugo that everyone kept telling me that I thought, no, I can get through this. And as we know, the. The longer you keep that going for, the harder it is to. To treat. And, uh, that eventually, yeah, came a few years later when I was having one of my most significant surgeries in a really bad way. And that's when I was probably at rock bottom. And it was a, uh, the first time where I realized that, no, I need some help to get out of there.

Sadhana Smiles: Yeah, I'm interested. Hugo. Did the hospital not offer that help to you, or did you not want it? No.

Hugo Toovey: Look, it's such an interesting point. When I do some presentations and talks, I've. I, um, often refer to a particular photo where I'm, like, you could see I'm so unwell. I've lost so much weight. I've got all these scars and tubes and everything, and. And I'm lying in this hospital bed, literally kept alive on a TPN pouch because I couldn't even have a sip of water. And. And I remember that moment so well, is that I had so many doctors, nurses, pain specialists, that surgeon, that treating specialist, the different nurses on rotation, like everyone here to help you and support you. You're literally this patient in a bed, and everyone's doing everything they can to. To get you out of there, to make you better, to, you know, to, you know, to do their part in the whole process of getting a patient to. To be at better health. And not one stage during that whole process did I kind of get asked, how are you going with this, mate? Like, fuck me, this must be so bloody hard. Like, geez, would you like to speak to anyone? They had, like, you know, the. The padre chaplain sort of person that would come in pastoral care and look, that's lovely. And often they're great to sit down to and chat to, especially if, you know, the elderly don't have family. And they almost provide that comfort, peace, you know. But I had family visiting me and, you know, I had that support and I didn't need that pastoral care. What I needed was, you know, I needed proper, um, professional help and something that I just wasn't offered and I didn't receive throughout those times. It's not that, you know, I can't blame them. I'm not frustrated at the system because I'm so grateful for the amazing doctors and surgeons and what nurses do, and it's just like, you know, they're underpaid and how they support the patient and, you know, everything that a hospital, the mechanics of a working hospital. Um, but I just think there's just that little bit of a gap where I probably could have had that professional support to say, this poor bastard's going through so much. He's, you know, absolutely at rock bottom. We can see once his family leaves, he's bursting to tears and he's so sad and unhappy and depressed. You know, surely it's, it's up to us, duty of care to say, you know, here's some, here's some professional support. So, no, look, I didn't receive it. And, and it's something that, you know, when I was so vulnerable, I wasn't at the stage right. Could make that decision myself. And I probably needed someone to say, no, Hugo, uh, you need to see this person mate, because obviously, you know, you're going through a pretty difficult time. And it's just a fascinating part of

Sadhana Smiles: medicine, you know, the uh, physical. But they forgot to treat the mental health. The mental health, yeah.

Hugo Toovey: And I often say that exactly that, that, you know, I was in horrific pain and I've been on all sorts of pain relief over the years and some of that pain during those really dark, dark days of not actually wanting to, to get better or get out of, I was just done. I kind of, you know, said, no, I've had enough. You know, some of the pain I was in, the mental pain of, you know, the, the panic attacks and the anxiety and the, the depressed thoughts and just that it was so painful living in that body that, you know, I truly empathize with people who had at that sort of the suicidal ideations and people who are in that mindset, it's, you know, they're, they're in a place of such hurt and pain and they don't think rationally. And people who have never been mentally ill might not understand what that's like, but to kind of be in such a scary place, they just do not want to be in anymore, you know, they don't think rationally like a, ah, healthy person thinking about it, going, how could you possibly leave your family behind? And you, you know, it's so selfish of you and you hear those remarks and it's, it's educating them to say, you don't, uh, you can't understand what they must have been like in that point of time. And, and I have experienced that and that's where it's, I'LL always empathize with people who have a mental illness because it is an illness. And I was doing everything I could to treat my physical illness, but nothing to treat my mental illness. And it should be viewed exactly the same way as we do to treat physical illnesses as we are with mental illnesses. And I still feel like there's a bit of. Bit of work that needs to be done. Yeah.

Sadhana Smiles: Who stepped in for you, Hugo?

Hugo Toovey: Who.

Sadhana Smiles: Who sat you down and said, mate, you need help?

Hugo Toovey: So it's actually my army gp, um, at the time, called me and he would check in on me more for like a, you know, duty of care standpoint for military. And we were quite close. And he called me and recognized that I was struggling. Um, and he could just hear my voice, and I was, you know, quite upset. And he was the one that, once again, it comes back down to the support I've had with the army has just been phenomenal. And he said, no, mate, I think you need to see somebody. And he said, but leave it with me. Um, I was in the hospital. He said, I'll organize. Um, I've got a great psychologist I have in mind who, you know, seen a lot of. A lot of army people. And, uh, this psychologist literally came into the hospital and I didn't have to leave anywhere. Sat by my bedside, and it was the first time I had a proper therapist appointment. And. And just to kind of like just have this, you know, that talking therapy concept of that burden. I felt like I was on everyone else, Amber, my family. Having someone that was there, that could just listen. And I just like, dumped everything I could. There were tears, there was this. There was this. There was anger, there was frustration. There was the why me m. You were talking about. There was all of that stuff. And just to kind of just feel free of some of that and just to hear that, you know, the responses that she gave was so simple at the time, but so massive in the. In the course or outcome of my entire life was basically like a, uh, you can't do this by yourself, and the people that you think you're burdening are there to support you, and they want to support you. And then she kind of flipped that narrative and said, if you're, you know, Amber was. Was on the bedside, would you want to support her and be there for her? Would you want her to be able to feel safe and. And able, that she can open up to you and. And. And express her emotions freely? And of course I would. So she said, you need to frame it differently in the fact that they want to be able to help you. And. And she kind of just really encouraged me, just said, you know, you got to let Amber in. You got to start opening about how you're feeling. You're allowed to be angry and frustrated and. And why me, and this sucks, but you got to let people in because you can't do it by yourself. And it was that moment of realization where I thought, you know, I can't do this by myself. I need people to help me, to lift me up, to be in my corner. And I had those people. I was so supportive, but I never felt so lonely. And so really recognizing that those people there to support me was hugely, hugely transformative for me, knowing that I can, um, have these amazing people, my village of people that are there for me. And I've got such a unbelievable relationship with. With my dad, for example, and how that father, son bond that we've had. And he now would just drop anything and be on my bedside in Sydney or Brisbane and just, I'll be here for two weeks. How long do you need me here for? And time. There's been times where he's just sat in hospital, hasn't said anything. He's just sat on his little chair there reading the newspaper. And I'd be kind of dozing in and out, and I'd wake up and I can just see that dad's there, and I can doze back to sleep knowing that, you know, I've just got that support. It's such a beautiful, comforting thing. And, um, yeah, that was the, kind of the biggest turning point for me. And I still work on my mental health like we all do. I still see a psychologist. You know, I still have days that aren't great, but I let people in. Now I'm. If I'm having a bad morning, a bad week, a bad time, I let Amber know. And. And it's just so different when you can actually just kind of realize that, you know, I've got a cup here, that expression. And we've all heard the whole, you know, you can't help others, uh, if you don't help yourself, uh, you can't pour from that. That empty cup. So recognizing myself that if I can kind of fill my cup up a bit, boost my mental health, then I'll. I'll be in a better place to then support my partner as well and be a better husband and partner and all this sort of stuff. So, yeah, it's an ongoing thing for me, but it's, um. I've certainly learned a lot over the years.

Sadhana Smiles: Now the good news is that they were able to get rid of the cancer. You went through the treatment, you had a number of operations. What is life like for you today?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah. So years went by and, you know, there were. Things went well, things didn't go too well. But all in all, I've had a pretty rough trot with it. And I'm, um, you know. Yeah, living with. With bugger or bow now. You know, the average human body has about 8 meters of bow. You've kind of got your large bar, your colon, your rectum, which is usually around 2 meters. And you've got 6 meters of your small bowel. Then you've got your kind of anus, finger sort of area and you know, your rectum. And that's kind of how your bowel works. Over the years, because I've had so many things that have gone wrong and so many surgeries and emergency surgeries. I'm. Now I've only got 1.8 meters of bowel left, so I've got no large bowel, so no colon, no rectum. I'm missing over 6 meters of small bowel. I don't have an anus sphincter. They've stitched me up down there and they've kind of ripped everything out. And I've now got this external ileostomy, which is permanent, which essentially is my remaining small bow sticks out of your abdomen. That's how I go to the toilet into a bag. Uh, and I had that end of, end of last year because I just had a year or so of, of things that just were failing. Um, and my body got in a pretty horrific stage. Last year's probably the worst year I've had for, for some time. But the human body is remarkable. And I sit here today truly saying, being, Being, um, real with this is that I'm the best I've felt for so long. And it surprises so many people when they hear what I've gone through or see my current setup and go, like, how is that even possible? But it's, uh, all relative, you know, compared to what I went through last year or some horrific times years prior that the times I just spoke about, I am significantly better. Better headspace, better physically. I can eat more, I can start to absorb more food. This stoma is like, it's a non event for me. Like, I could not care after this. I'd. I need to change my bag, for example. It doesn't take that long. You know, you empty it six times throughout the day, whatever. Like it's just a non event though. Whereas if there was a healthy ish person that never gone through health challenges in their life and I said, tomorrow you're going to get a stoma, it would be like, oh my God, my world's gonna end. And it's all relative, right? And this is, this is me, this is my, my new normal. And I'm so grateful that I've got this new lease on life because for so long I thought, this is as good as it will get. And then back end of last year, had this major surgery, eight hours. Two colorectal surgeons, you know, very serious, they, they only do it when it's a last resort. But it worked well, touch wood. It continues with good health. And you know, I'm so, so grateful that I can be on a podcast like this, genuinely feeling good and meaning that whereas in the past I've done stuff like this where I've been on pain relief and sitting here in so much discomfort and it's like, Jesus, poor bugger. But I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me because I've, I'm living, living a pretty good life.

Sadhana Smiles: How resilient are you today compared to when you were 21?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, unbelievable. It's, you know, resilience is such an interesting concept that we've all heard and I didn't really have, I haven't really had a choice. You know, you're kind of forced to crack on and just get through it to survive. But one of the, the really great, you know, uh, byproducts of that is that you're forced to be resilient. And I've, now, I've just got this way of life that, you know, uh, whether it's being resilient to getting through future challenges or even just having this beautiful perspective on life, knowing that, how precious it is and how quickly it can be taken away and to just remind myself of that constantly each day. And that's why I love even doing discussions like this or after every workshop or presentation because I'm telling myself that and I kind of leave it feeling like actually that's true. I needed that little pep talk and pump up to myself. This morning I was feeling a little bit flat. So, yeah, you learn an awful lot when you go through adversity.

Sadhana Smiles: Are there any non negotiables now in your life that you do, um, that you know, you just, no matter what happens, won't let go of?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, for me the big one is, I think because I spent so many months and years in and out of hospitals and hospitals can be a very, you know, very sort of lonely place, but a very sort of claustrophobic place of feeling stuck inside this hospital. So for me, being outside, rain, hail and shine. In fact, I love when it, it rains and you get your little umbrella. I'll always go for that morning walk, whether it be with our dogs or now I've got a son and just, you know, getting out in nature and often leaving the phone at home so you're not getting distracted in your little binging phone all the time. You can literally be out there, just that whole taking it all in. Seeing my therapy dog run around and play with other dogs or seeing my son just grow up and change every month. And it's like, that's the biggest non negotiable for me is no matter how you're feeling and you can feel like you're bedridden and I know you said you've had been a bit crook recently, is finding that strength to go, no, I'm just going to even sit outside in the sunshine for 10 minutes or just go for a little walk because that fresh air and nature, when you're stuck in hospitals and you've gone through significant challenges like that, it's. Jeez, you, you love that. Yeah. It's something that I'll never take for granted.

Sadhana Smiles: Yeah. Now, through all of this, uh, everything you've been through, you know, you've got a little boy who's 2 years old. Through all of this, you've actually also founded 25 stay alive. Talk to me about that.

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, no, it's, it's, you know, I've got some things I'm most proud of in life and, and I love more than anything is, you know, my son first and foremost. You know, we didn't think we'd be able to conceive. We tried for over a year and we call him our little miracle baby. His name is Teddy and he gives me so much motivation and joy. And, um, he's amazing. But the other little baby that I have is my charity and I think that was 25. Stay Alive was stemmed from almost a sense of frustration. Over the years, I'd constantly be told, geez, Hugo, you're so young to have gone through this. Geez, mate, you're so young. And the more that I started sharing my story and connecting with people in the online digital world, I realized I was not alone. I wasn't, I wasn't an outlier in this, this world of preventable illness and all these young people that were sharing their stories with me or are connecting with online who had, you know, going through, whether it be bowel cancer or skin cancer, or young women being diagnosed with breast cancer or, you know, bowel diseases or, you know, all sorts of these health conditions as young people in their sort of their 20s and 30s and navigating life. But there was no, there was no spotlight on that. It was kind of, you know, when you're young, there's a spotlight on it when, when you're older. You know, now we'll take things seriously. Like I said earlier, 25s the new 50. So what really did it for me was when the bow screening age was 50, it's now just been lowered to 45. And it was kind of like 50s, that mark where it's like, nope, that's when we'll send you a screening kit. And it kind of really frustrated me. I said, this should be happening earlier on in life. We should be having a, an age where we're putting more of a spotlight on. And that's when 25 Stay Alive was born was to say, and you said it before really well, if we can set those foundations earlier on, 20 years later, geez, we'll, we'll set ourselves up for life. And so for me, um, it was creating initially it was a movement sharing my story, sharing other people's stories to raise awareness of being proactive with your health and using my personal experience of learning the hard way. 21, put off that frozen pea sized lump. Fast forward five years, I'm having that bloody colonoscopy and it's the reason I'm here today. So being in control of your own health, knowing what to look out for, having annual checkups with your gp, even if you're feeling fine, walking in there and going, yep, tick. I've had my annual checkup. Australia's, you know, our national cancer, skin cancer. How many young people are taking, having skin checks every couple years? What are you even looking out for? Hey, that freckles shouldn't be there. They're simple conversations, but they're just not being had. So for us it was creating that, that now's a charity we've been operating for a year. Um, we're partnering with some wonderful clinicians because we want young people to realize that there are good GPS out there and you can have a good gp. And if you find that now, it is gold. Because if something does go wrong in years to come, you know exactly who to see or who to speak to. Uh, and then we use our power of Lift experience in sharing people's stories to really relate to, whether it be sporting clubs, workshops, communities, corporate environments. It's not just for young people because we frame it to, you know, if people have younger kids and they're growing up, you can be a great role model for them. And we want them to grow up in a world where it's okay to express your emotions for letting people in from, you know, from, from having a cry if you're a bloke, from reaching out to a mate if you're struggling, to going to a GP to get checked. All these great messaging we're trying to have now, we're trying to have that preventative approach and be proactive rather than reactive.

Sadhana Smiles: Anyone listening to this, if they want to reach out to you or get involved, what's the best way that they can do that?

Hugo Toovey: Yeah, for sure. You know, I'd love, even if it's one person, two people, five people, I love connecting with people. Uh, one of the benefits of an online world is you can connect with people online and I've got some, some friends online that I've never even met that we've just connected and shared something with. So if someone wants to, to reach out, whether it be social media, Instagram, just, you know, search my name, Hugo Tuvey or the charity 25 Stay Alive LinkedIn, same goes. I'd love to hear from you if you've got your own story you want to tell. I'd love that connection piece. But more so if you'd think that, you know what, you're in a workplace, your son or daughter's playing in a sporting club and you think, you know what, these conversations, God, my son will benefit from that. I had a workshop at a footy club last night, for example, and there were some females there as well. And we had this really great 60 minute, open, honest and vulnerable chat. I share my story. Brought one of our doctors along and all these young people that left there just feeling so inspired and motivated with their health and their life and had these really deep but life saving conversations, which is, uh, what we're all about. So, yeah, I'd love to, to continue, uh, to grow the charity to get out there, we want to do more of what we want to do. I'm so passionate with it. Like I said, it's my second little baby in life and it gives me so much purpose and it's crazy how we all just crack on with life. We often take it for granted. The amount of time I hear people say they bloody hate their job and hate what they're doing. And. And I've now had people say, geez, I'm so jealous that you've found that thing that you love doing. And it's like, well, I wouldn't recommend the path I took to get here. It's not. Not for everyone. But, yes, I am grateful that I have got this purpose in life. I wake up with a smile to say, what have I got to have got these meetings. I've got this workshop of, you know, chatting to sad. Now, with this podcast and the work that you do in the leadership space, it just gives me fuel and passion to. To be able to want to do more, but be able to do it with better health.

Sadhana Smiles: I think it's such an important message, Hugo. And I've noticed, you know, I have young children, and I think one of the things that I've noticed is, particularly post Covid, there's a lot of, in the younger cohort who do have mental health issues or have physical issues. And one of the things I talk about a lot is you've got to be really proactive about your own health. And if something isn't sitting right, you've got to chase it down to the end until it starts to feel right, no matter how old you are. Because the medical system isn't designed to do that. It's designed to look at one element and make an assumption about everything else. And I think, you know, we've. Whether you are, uh, 20 years old or 60 years old or 80 years old, you've actually got to be responsible for chasing whatever it is you're feeling right down to the end, because if you don't, no one else will.

Hugo Toovey: 100%. It's such a good point. You got to, you got to take ownership, uh, of your, your own health, and you got to be proactive with it, because you're right. The healthcare system is largely reactive, and there is a shortage of GPs and doctors, and time's valuable. And if you go in there and you feel like you're dismissed because you just said, I heard Hugo on this podcast, and he said it's a good idea to get a checkup. And they go, why are you here? And you get dismissed. Keep pushing and advocating for your own health, firstly and foremost, because there are some great GPS out there, um, but also, you know your body better than anyone. So if someone says to you, oh, uh, those bowels playing up, it's probably nothing, and you're sitting there going, no, no, no, this is not right. You can advocate, like you said, for your own health. You can be productive. You can keep pushing for that because it is your body and your health at the end of the day.

Sadhana Smiles: Hugo, thank you for all the work that you do. Good luck with 25, stay alive. But most importantly, good luck with your health. Um, you know, and I hope everything continues to move in a positive direction for you.

Hugo Toovey: Thank you. Sadhana. I'm, um. Yeah, like I said, I'm in a really good place doing this and it does gives me a lot of fulfillment to know that hopefully there are plenty of better years coming. And I always say, you know, I do this stuff now for my 2 year old son that when he's navigating life in his teens and twenties and thirties, that hopefully, hopefully, um, you know, the world will be even in a better place with the, with the healthcare system and the focus on that preventative health. So thank you for all you do as well. And thank you so much for having me.

Sadhana Smiles: If you like what you've heard, please share, rate and review this podcast. And don't forget to share it with anyone who might benefit from hearing it. The producer of Future Fit Leadership is Maritza Barone from Guide youe Light Network. If you would like to reach out to me, please DM me on any of my social media platforms. I'm available for speaking at conferences or consulting to your business. Future Fit is created in partnership with Future Leadership Capability Ecosystem for Boards and Executives. If you'd like to join the community and receive a free takeaway each week, sign up for the Future Exchange app in my show Notes. Thank you for having me in your space. This is a Guide your Light Network production Creating podcasts with purpose.