Market Eminence, with David Newman

Speaker View & Screen Share: There is a quiet, enduring power in wisdom that resists the urge to conform, and in stories, it's not obvious who will be the wise character. The role often cast 'em as having little beginnings, or they're in the shadow of others who are more powerful. Hey, Glenn here. This is the show for database marketers.

Now we're looking at these wise figures because even though they are mocked or sidelined, they still speak truth. Don Coyote's sidekick, Sancho Panza. Quixote usually makes fun of, but he becomes known for his practical wisdom and eventually becomes a governor. The story of Siddhartha, when the Prince leaves the palace, he is called a fool by so-called teachers.

They never reach enlightenment though, and he does. And in to kill a Mockingbird, Atticus Finch, the lawyer in the deep South who was shunned by his community for taking on an unwinnable case, though he lost , people credited him as being the only man in these parts would keep a jury out that long. Sheherazade, the woman who in 1,001 nights was facing execution at Dawn, but who told cliffhanger stories that stalled the King's command and saved her life. The young boy in the Emperor's New Clothes where everyone believed the lie, that only smart people could see the fashion.

No one said anything as he walked by. The boy's exclamation though brought what everyone knew to be true out into the open. These fictional characters remind us that while the truth may be unpopular at first, people eventually realize they should listen to and follow the person who gave it. They remind us that when leaders step up, share their convictions and act as the voice of reason, they'll ultimately triumph.

Our guest's new book says that any company wanting to lead their category must fearlessly shout out what they know to be true. The title, Market Eminence, refers to the position of category authority that leaders who do this can reach and its tone is as bold as his previous books Do it selling, do it speaking and do it marketing. He's also an advisor who works with marketers and salespeople and executives. He hosts a 500 plus episode, top ranked podcast called The Selling Show.

Let's welcome back this previous guest from Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, David Newman. Glenn: For the second time, I wanna welcome back David Newman. David: Hey Glenn. Thanks for having me back.

Glenn: I am so glad to have you back and you came back with a new book, David, what's the name of the book? David: The book is called Market Eminence, and the subtitle is 22. Strategies to Build a Bold Personal Brand, become a Business Celebrity, and Drive Unstoppable Growth. Glenn: Goodness gracious.

I love the 22. It's evoking for me some age old, , dearly loved, , branding and marketing books that, name the rules David: They're not just rules Glen, they're immutable. They're immutable, Glenn: immutable laws. You know, the books I'm talking about.

But I am gonna point out that you don't start there, David, you start us off in, I think more of an existential area. The beginning of your book, it reminded me of a poem. It's the Robert Frost poem, the Road Less Traveled. David: Hmm.

Glenn: And you kind of grabbed me by the shirt, Scruffs and said Glen. Which road are you gonna take? Can you please tell us what roads people in marketing have as an option in front of them or people who are leading a business have in front Sure. And which road you want them to take.

David: So, thank you for the Robert Frost comparison. That is, praise indeed. We're living in 2026. We are at this point, three and a half years into the popularization of chat, GPT.

So the robots are taking over everything. There has never been more noise, more, terabytes of lookalike soundalike content. And the two roads are, you can either be one of many and blend in and be vanilla and suffer the slings and arrows of obscurity. Or you can fly your freak flag.

You can be more authentic, more grounded in who you are and what you believe and what you believe in. And become a visionary, become a futurist, become a trend spotter, and become the lighthouse. That your audience, your clients, your prospects, your investors, maybe even your acquirers, media partners, podcasts, hosts, et cetera, have been looking for. So you could literally be stale.

Same middle of the road, vanilla, blah. Or you can be exciting, authentic, quirky, irreverent, non-obvious, and you can shine the spotlight. To illuminate the path ahead for you, for your company, for your people, for your cause, for your brand, et cetera. So I like path number two.

The first part of the book about the first 30 pages is the argument against blending in being safe and letting AI become your voice. And to some extent, your brain. Glenn: There's very little I can add to that. I will pick up on what you said.

You used the, imagery of a lighthouse and the word illuminate. And if we think about who you are trying to serve, I do think companies and people who work in sales and marketing and growth areas within those companies, I think they should view themselves as. Serving, they're in servitude of, people and those people that they are serving have problems. Let's just be all open about that.

David: Oh yeah, for sure. Glenn: Who are struggling and they are in a quest. To try and find where they're going. And if we want to think nautical, sure, they're out at sea, but they do not want to be dashed against the shoals of, irrevocable problems.

Problems they can't, steer around and reverse themselves out of. David: Right. Glenn: And you, because. Of your expertise, you have the ability to stand firmly on the ground they've personally explored.

David: Yeah. Glenn: The other one you say is to show them the distinctive way that you see the world. David: Yes. Glenn: So I took what you were saying, you're offering me like a cafeteria choice, but you're also saying to me, Glenn, there's an obligation here.

If you mean to be helping those individuals. David: Yeah. Glenn: Then you have to speak out on what you see and where you are. And if you know the path you gotta tell them.

David: Yes. Yeah, totally. A thousand percent. Glenn: So then we get into these 22 principles, which ought to let us very tangibly.

Walk the walk. Yes. And, I, I wanna set the stage here because each one of them has, like I I was saying before we started recording, you, you, you were very economical in how you wrote this book. It is, not, it doesn't use, too many words.

In fact, it is, simply using only the number of words that it needs, however, right. That, I have to let anybody know who wants to read this. That doesn't mean that you can speed run it, because what I found was I would get into these principles and each of them basically covers a, double spread on a page. David: Yes, Glenn: one half of that double spread is some questions, and those questions are so poignant.

I had to stop what I was doing. And get out a notepad and start answering the questions. David: Yes. Glenn: And they're all done that way.

So tell me about the method behind that. David: I think all of us in the marketing and sales world, we stand on the shoulders of giants. And so the problem that I set out to solve. Is, how do we get noticed?

How do we get our products, our services, our company, our personal brand noticed in this hyper noisy world and for 25 years, really smart, really inspiring people. Like Seth Godin, for example, Seth Godin said, you know what? You just need to be a purple cow. You need to be quote unquote remarkable.

You need to be someone who stands out so starkly like a purple cow in a field of brown cows that people cannot help but stop and notice. And that's good advice. And let's put that on the shelf for a quick second. Then we have another huge.

Influencer, a huge, thought leader in this area, which is Gary Vaynerchuk. And Gary for 20 plus years has been saying, just put out amazing, amazing content, put out content that is too good to ignore. You gotta teach people, inspire people, shake 'em up, wake 'em up. And he says, with both of these, crush it with Glenn: content.

David: Crush it with your content. Now, neither one of those gentlemen talked about. Exactly how do you do that? What is the definition?

What is the recipe, right? For remarkable content? What kinds of things will stop the scroll and get someone to forward a social post or an email, or a blog, or a video or kind of content? Gary V exactly is amazing and valuable and shareworthy.

And so all of these labels, right? You gotta be remarkable. You gotta be amazing. It has to be fantastic.

It needs to be different. And so sometimes it's okay. Well, it needs to be different, right? The purple cow's different than the brown cow.

Amazing content is different than commoditized, crappy content. So I decided, okay. I love these two guys. I love their entire body of work, Glenn: right?

David: Many other marketers and authors have come before I need to write the exactly how to playbook of what does it look like? What does it feel like to create visibility and credibility and differentiation in the marketplace so that you do rise head and shoulders above the crowd and that people start to say, man, that guy Glenn. He gets it. There's a lot of other people that might look like they do what Glen does, but man, Glen is my guy.

I listened to his podcast. I went to his website. I read his latest newsletter. I felt like he was talking to me.

So that level of immediacy and value and intimacy and connection, you can only get that if you are being authentically human. And if you are sharing, content that is, shifting beliefs, shifting the way people think about their problem and giving them tools that they need in an environment of. Uncertainty and turbulence and craziness. So that's what I mean by lighthouse, right?

There's the lighthouse metaphor. And if you're not a lighthouse, I got bad news for the rest of us. The opposite of a lighthouse is a tugboat, and tugboat is where marketing has been for the last 50 years, right? We're huffing, we're puffing, we're pulling, we're like, listen to me, follow me.

I have the magic, I've got the mojo, and we are burning tens of thousands of gallons of fuel being a tugboat. Whereas the lighthouse uses no fuel whatsoever, the lighthouse sits on the shore. It illuminates the rocks, and illuminates the safe passage for little boats to kind of come in. Avoid the traps, avoid the pitfalls, avoid the dangers.

And navigate to where the lighthouse wants them to go. Glenn: Yeah. I David: I love that. Safety and ultimately success.

Glenn: Yeah. The lighthouse anticipated where they were and, if it's, let's say a barge like that one that got stuck in the Suez Canal a few years ago, the tug boats have to come away later and reactively, David: right. Glenn: Get, and as you said, it's a lot more work. So I think I know which one I'd rather be.

David: Yeah. Glenn: The nature of doing content, that is going to resonate with people. I agree with you that, questions are a great way to get down to that. It is only obvious in retrospect, but you can very quickly understand that those questions that you pose have to be there because until you can articulate what it is, and let's be clear, if you're the founder of a business, you might already be doing it if you are, in a company.

Which had, a culture infused in it by a founder. Even if they're no longer here, you may also be doing it. But if you don't express it, and you don't express it with that. Fervor, then the impact on the person hearing it.

It might all be for naught. And I'm remembering, and it's been attributed to Maya Angelou. You know, if I see what you do, then I am understanding at one level if I, see what you have said, and I think it through, I may do it at another level, but the deepest level of all is when what you do for me makes me feel David: yes. Glenn: Right.

I will remember that. The others will be long forgotten. David: Right. Glenn: And we have to bottle those things that our companies represent in order for us to get them to feel right.

David: Yeah. Yeah. Glenn: So that's, that's I think where you're really drilling down and making me do work, David, I David: know Glenn: To get to those deeper levels. David: Yeah.

Glenn: you'll say to me, okay, so Glen, you say you're in this business, so what? Well, because I saw that, when I was working for somebody else and I was in that business, they were doing it wrong. Okay, so what? Well, I got so frustrated by how it was wrong and how the whole industry seems to be doing it wrong.

I had to strike out on my own and do it because if nobody else was gonna do it, I had to. David: Right. Glenn: Okay, now we're there. Now we see, and this is a common thread through your 22 principles, is get me down to those things that run counter.

David: Yeah. With a Glenn: standard conventional wisdom that everybody else out there holds, David: Well, and also let me expand on what you're saying because what I mentioned a moment ago might seem a little bit, ethereal or you can't really get your hands on it, but there are three very specific kinds of ways that. The content that I'm recommending these founders and CEOs and executives. Create is different from the old kind of content, so how to content is done.

AI can do how to content way better than you or me or anyone else. Unfortunately, like I said a moment ago, there's terabytes and terabytes and zillions of terabytes of AI generated content that's polluting the entire marketing ecosystem. I'll tell you where humans can win though. The first kind of content you should focus on.

It's not how to content, but it's how to think. How to think is higher level strategic. It's based on insight. It's not based on information.

So how to is based on information, how to think is about reframing situations or problems or challenges or even solutions. Based on your experience, your war stories, your battle scars, what you've done, what you've seen, what you've learned, what you've learned through your clients. This is a naturally human type of communication, is how to think. Number two is what to believe, and maybe more importantly, what not to believe.

So if you can be the truth teller. In your industry, you're the one that's gonna call out the myths, and you're gonna give them the actual truths. You're gonna separate the signal from the noise. Here's what to pay attention to.

Here's what is either a half truth or an outdated truth, or something that no longer serves you or serves your clients or serves your industry. So this what to believe, what not to believe is the second kind of content. Yes. And then the third kind of content is where to focus to get ready for what's coming next.

So a little bit of trend spotting, a little bit of future casting about where are things going. And this isn't just bad things. This isn't like, oh, the boogey man's around the corner. Be careful.

This could be opportunities, this could be new opportunities and new advantages. That you, your customers, your clients, your prospects might have in front of them. Because I'll tell you, Glenn, there's nothing that a CEO or a founder or anyone who's important in your world. There's nothing they hate more than being ambushed and, surprised.

And if they could have seen something coming three months down the road, six months down the road, a year down the road, if only someone had told them about this amazing opportunity, if only someone had warned them about this danger or this threat, or this trend. That might come and eat their lunch. They really don't like being sideswiped or surprised or ambushed. So if you can be that early warning system and you can look at what is coming three months, six months, 12 months down the road, even if you're wrong, by the way.

Even if you're wrong, no one's gonna go back six and 12 months and said, you know, nine months ago, this guy Glen, that I follow, he had these 10 predictions. Only four of them came true. Six of them went absolutely nowhere. No one has the time to go back and spot check you six months or 12 months later.

So if you can be the trend spotter and the future caster, that is also a much more valuable kind of content. Than just the same kind of, you know, how to boring vanilla content. So those are the big three, how to think, what to believe, and where to focus for what's coming next. Glenn: Yeah.

And we, this takes temerity, to be able to, to do those things. And yet, I think what helps people understand. Why they should do what you're encouraging is if they think to, let's say, a conference that they were recently at. Mm-hmm.

Or if they think of a blog or you know, other place, maybe a YouTube video, a TED Talk where they're noticing and really paying attention to something someone has said along any of those three lines, those. Signature messages that those people give have this element in them. They are, yeah, a way of looking at the world and it stands out not for the sake of standing out, but it stands out because they've tapped into something that deepen our own hearts. We realized they're right, that we were maybe.

Cling into the scaffolding of an era, earlier era, and right now they're showing us, you know what? That's gonna be an anchor for you. If you hold onto that too long. You need to make a change.

Now, I like what you said about the six months later, because Yeah, I think what people normally do is they'll say, okay, I don't know if you were right or not too far back to worry, but you got me really, really. Yes, exploring. And I went into some resource recesses in the back of my mind that I hadn't been to in a long time. Yeah.

So that's what people are going to latch onto even more than what you say. And then the other thing in the book that I think the boldness and temerity brings on is. I started to resist what you were saying, and I can imagine some leaders are thinking this because classical things like client segmentation teach us that you want to. Say things that your clients take comfort in.

Things that your clients will nod and waive. If they are, let's say you're in an industry where fees are under price, pressure, you want to say things to try and comfort them and let them know, no, no, no, don't worry. The value that you get is, you know, the fee is, well represented in the value you get. But if you do start to challenge those things.

You pointed out you might start to get different clients and you need to get attention. What is it about those other clients that you're getting, that you weren't getting? They, they're coming along with you because of your unconventional take. David: Right.

Glenn: Now you start to think, well, wait a minute, was I just holding on to the price sensitive clients? And do I really need them? Like if I am, yeah, paying for the privilege of working for them, at the end of the day, maybe I don't need those clients. Maybe I would rather let those sheep like clients go over to my sheep like competitors, David: right?

Glenn: I will hold onto the clients who see me as truly distinct and would go through the fire with me. David: I think what you're putting your finger on is when people are exposed to some of these ideas about changing what you're saying, changing who you're appealing to, it can be scary. And I almost always hit some level of resistance. Both with entrepreneurs and with executives where we do this.

And so I'll give you an example, what I tell people is we're building an electromagnetic fence around your business, around your company. And this is an electromagnetic fence that has a very powerful magnetic force. And of course it also has the opposite polarity, right? It has a very powerful repulsive force, and it's gonna powerfully bring in.

You're a perfect fit. Not just clients, but talent, media partners, acquirers, investors, all those different stakeholders that you want in your world. It's gonna powerfully magnetize them in, and it's gonna repel the bad fits. In other words, it's gonna turn some people off.

It's gonna piss some people off, it's gonna irritate some people. You'll start getting some hate mail, Glenn: and you're David: telling me, Glenn: telling you that I'm on the right track. David: Well, exactly. Exactly right.

But I look around the room and I see these kind of like terrified faces, Glenn: right? David: And they go, yeah, that part about the hate mail. That part about we're gonna, , some people are gonna be pissed off and upset with us. Yeah.

You know, David, maybe we should just stop right here. Thanks for coming in and here's your cheque. And I say, no, no, no, no. Hold on.

I said, you are hitting the resistance point that about 99.9% of my clients hit. And I say, let's, let's be very clear about this magic electromagnetic fence. I want you to tell me about the nightmare clients that you've had, or even the nightmare employees or the worst possible kinds of investors that you would never want to come in and give money, money to your company.

I said, we're gonna make a list. And so we're in the boardroom and I've got my white board and we're making the list. I said, let's start with your nightmare clients. Okay.

They come in, they second guess everything. They're difficult to work with. They're penny pinchers. They don't share our vision.

They lack alignment. They don't have integrity. They're rude to our team. Okay, great.

Got it. Have you ever had a nightmare employee that you wish you'd never hired? Oh my gosh, David, have we ever, I said, tell me about them. They come in late, they leave early.

They also, they're not bought in. They do the minimum. They're just here for the paycheque. They don't care about the work.

They're not quality minded. Great. I just make a huge long list, like 8, 10, 12 things and I say, lemme repeat what I said a moment ago. Electromagnetic fence, pull in all of the best fits.

Everyone gets very excited and happy about that. And I said, the only people that we're repelling. Is these people here that are on the whiteboard that you would never have to encounter these kinds of clients, these kinds of employees, these kinds of investors. And I look around the room, Glenn, and I see their shoulders soften and I see their, they sort of lean forward and they're looking lovingly at my whiteboard.

And I say, how does that make you feel? And they go, that would be great. And I say, I know. Welcome to Market Eminence.

That's who we're keeping out. Do you stare at your marketing analytics, but get stuck on what to do differently? That's why I am hosting a free analytics clinic this June. I'm looking for up to three volunteers for a special live audit session.

All of us will screen share our platforms playing cards, face up, and we'll dig into what the data is and isn't telling us. Guess we'll get a personalized, real-time picture of how to make the measurement and marketing better. But this session won't just help these three guests. It'll be released as a public funnel reboot episode because there are many marketers who suffer in silence over their analytics, and they deserve to know how these problems can be fixed.

Of course, any private details will be edited out. You get to say what makes it to air. So if you want to have an interactive marketing audit and do a public service to your peers this June, go to the Get in touch Page at funnelreboot.com .

I'll be getting the applications in by May 20th, and then I will contact people between May 27th and June 4th to record the show. Let's get back to the show. Glenn: Yeah. The idea dawns on people that instead of having to go through those grueling nightmares, that there is a selection process which could weed them out before we even.

Get together. So, David: exactly. Glenn: Let's do it at the front end, please. Speaker View & Screen Share-1: Exactly.

David: Right. Glenn: And, you're absolutely right. All it takes is us letting go of things like, like I find top line numbers very useless, you know, well, we make this much revenue, or we have this many clients, David: yeah, Glenn: I'd much rather hear. You know, we're a small but mighty group that has a small but fierce client, fiercely loyal client base.

And yes, the money we make is, you know, we, we are profitable because we charge reassuringly expensive enough fees and we know what we're about. And, and you know, I, I hear this from people by the way, over the last five years, who also had the guts to do things like. Give up that lease on that expensive, many thousand square foot office space. David: Yeah.

Glenn: And they're all virtual now. And I ask them, how's it going? And they say, better than ever our, yeah, our team, they get time with their family, our clients understand boundaries. We are clear about who we are and we're not trying to be anything else.

David: That's right. Glenn: that's the kind of thing that I think you are tapping into, with the principles and the rules. Another part of it is though, we realize everybody especially, out in our marketplaces is very busy. Their attention is being, attacked from all sides.

David: Yeah. Glenn: They may not have the kind of bandwidth that it takes to, let's say, hear Glenn and David talk for a while about this or, to get long form content. So sure you, you do have some. Suggestions on how we can shrink this down.

And there's a, a beauty here that some of these techniques that you mentioned when you said them in the book, to me, I thought, this is great because if the founder does the homework of shrinking these things down, they also can. Have disciples inside of their business or even what one thing we'll get to, which is brand friends who can share these things. So tell me some of the practical ways we can crunch down, these large counter statements or declarations that we have so that they can get spread.

David: Well, let me start with something that people can do right here, right now, the moment that they're done listening to our podcast here. So I think the most powerful foundation that you can start with, it's one of the early chapters in the book as well, is building out your contrarian slant. And so there's three prompts, three thinking exercises that I would give you if you need to pull over the car, take some notes, get off the treadmill, grab your pen, that's fine. Just do what you need to do.

Glenn: Yep. David: Question number one is what conventional wisdom in your field do you secretly think is completely wrong, but have never publicly challenged? And just write that down. Does not need to be a novel.

Short phrases, key words, punch words, jot it down. Number two. Second part of this thinking exercise, what harsh truth about your industry are clients desperate? For someone to finally acknowledge openly, I call this one the elephant in the room question.

Everyone knows it. It's kinda like, oh, we can't talk about that out loud. We can't talk about that with our outdoor voice. So for example, let's say you were running an accounting firm or a law firm.

Clients hate hourly billing. They just hate it. It's like, how come I'm being nickel and dimmed in six minute increments? Why does it cost $8 to make a one page photocopy?

And why am I financially incentivizing you to work longer on my case as opposed to get it done, get it resolved in a shortest time as possible? That said, we don't believe in hourly fees because we're much more concerned about getting you to your destination than in running the meter. Whoa, whoa, whoa. All the other law firms lose their minds.

Everyone's going crazy. Glenn: Might get run out of town by the other David: law firms. Exactly. Firms have you seen what Newman, Newman and Newman are doing?

They've lost their minds. They're not doing hourly billing anymore. And anyway, the third one to think about is what strong point of view do you already hold? That makes industry insiders uncomfortable, but that resonates deeply with your ideal clients, and I'll tell you where to gather this information.

This is what I call your refugee clients or your refugee customers. You're probably not the first solution provider that they've come to when they come knocking on your door. You have an initial conversation with them. What do they complain about that the last company or the last person did?

That's, oh, we hired this other consultant, we hired this other marketing agency, and they gave us this boilerplate branding nonsense, and we ended up with nothing other than a $50,000 mood board. Now, if it comes from the client's mouth, right? Glenn: Yep. David: So now you've got three very powerful pieces.

To build out your contrarian slant, it's the conventional wisdom that you already genuinely behind. Closed door think is wrong. It's the elephant in the room question, which is the harsh truth that everyone knows, but no one wants to say out loud. And it's the refugee question that when they come to you, they're bitterly complaining about how badly they were treated or how poorly they were served by the last person who kind of looked like they do what you do if you can in your next LinkedIn post.

If your next sales conversation, if your next newsletter, your next substack that goes out, if you can put a little germ of any of those three things in. You'll get an amazing response that I think will blow you out of the water. Glenn: I couldn't agree more. I think you can even get, mileage out of it by a.

It seems when you say we should do it this way, and that means, instead of going, from A to B you're telling people, let's go from A to X, right? Let's just skip B through the rest and get straight there. If you have a process or if you can coin a term for it. Or if you can somehow formalize it into something very.

Communicable, you've got on your hands there, not only a different point of view, which can make it into that post, but I would imagine you probably have a packaged or productizable offering that you can then sell. David: Yes, absolutely. I think if you have a strong point of view and a strong contrarian slant, it makes it much easier. For people to understand the rules of the road.

We're gonna go left, we're not gonna go right, we're gonna go with strawberry. We're not gonna go chocolate 'cause everyone else goes chocolate. It doesn't really work that well, even though I love chocolate personally. But in this example, right?

Once you know the playbook and once you've codified all of these things, it will totally make productizing your services simpler. It's always a pretty herculean task, but if you wanna make it as simple as possible. Start to infuse it with some of these practices, principles, philosophies, and mindsets. Glenn: Yeah.

The, way that you also ask us to crunch it down is you say, could you put it on a fortune cookie? Fortune? David: Yes. Glenn: That's, that could be a tall order, but I think that the process of.

Weaning out what is not part of the message. Yeah. that forcing function is very helpful to people. David: Yes.

Glenn: And it is going to help their friends, friends of the brand get it. Because we can't ask friends of our brand to remember whole paragraphs or diatribes, but they could probably get a one sentence or a fragment out. Tell us about brand friends. David: So brand friends are, partners or affiliations or colleagues or other companies or people or associations or any sort of entity that is in your ecosystem that you resonate with and they resonate with you.

So obviously you have a contrarian lens, you have some philosophies of what's right and wrong with the world. You have your brand manifesto. Finding fellow travelers who are aligned with those beliefs, with those, practices, with those philosophies is a very, very powerful way to go to market. Where you can have, partnerships, you can have, all sorts of different, you know, it could be joint ventures, it could be cross-promotion.

It could be actually literally creating a product together. It could be a distribution partnership. It could be, all kinds of different things. But building out this ecosystem of like-minded companies, like-minded professionals.

Number one, you're not doing this alone. And number two, you are activating this groundswell of people that are in alignment with your beliefs, with your values, with your value proposition, and are much more likely to buy from you and buy from your partner. And it's also a way to expose your audiences to each other. So literally if you were to do a joint event, a joint webinar, if you were to appear on each other's podcasts, like the way Glen and I are doing right now.

I'm exposing my audience to Glen, who's a fantastic podcast host. My, by my being a guest on this show, Glen is also sharing his audience with me. So you can see where this goes if you multiply this with five partnerships, 10 partnerships, 15 partnerships, it could be, channel partners. It could be distribution partners.

It could be product or service, co-creation partners. It could be referral partners. It could be strategic introductions, it could be co-host events. It could be all kinds of things.

And I don't recommend that you do this willy-nilly. I think this is a very carefully curated group. Yeah, that you're truly in sync with each other's values. You probably have an adjacent product or service, not a directly competitive Yes, product or service.

And this whole concept of ecosystem marketing, if you look on Amazon or your favorite bookstore, and you look up at the word ecosystem, it's not just in nature that we have ecosystems. This is a very powerful concept in today's modern marketing, which is tap into the ecosystem where you already have some clients and prospects in common, and then you're using your partners, and your partners are using you to amplify and magnify your presence, and also amplify and magnify the value that you can deliver into your ecosystem.

Glenn: Yeah. And, and again, I think whiteboards and charting out who they might be is a great exercise. The, the, the, carrying out your convictions may cause you to realize though that the groups that you can use in this ecosystem. Are not who you might think.

The, the quick example that comes to my mind is when I first started my career, I joined a industry which had been around since the 19th century. Yeah. And, boy did it feel like it, the association meetings that I would go to, it felt. Ossified, it was, you know, yes, I was younger and most of my peers were older, but it wasn't just that, I don't wanna sound ageist.

The thinking and the, holier than thou attitude that these vendors had to towards clients. I would stand in a circle listening to them and they would. Talk down about a client who had, made a legitimate point or asked a valid question about how an offering was delivered. And when I heard that sort of thing, I realized I was in my head forming the way that I think it should be done by what not to follow.

And yeah, one of the thought. Experiments you give us is you say, try to codify those words that you say, go to what you want to do, your favorite approach. David: Yeah. Glenn: But also make a list of the ones that you don't.

So like there's an allow list and there's a deny list. David: That's Glenn: nice. I think that's a really helpful concept because, now, here's the conviction part. If you're ready to say that you don't agree with those words on the deny list, you know, we will never use these words when talking about you, Mr.

Client, even when you're not in the room. We don't believe these things. These are our anti values. You may need to remove yourself from the room where all of those cronies who talk like that normally are, David: yeah, Glenn: maybe you need to have the guts to even go and.

With the others who see things like you do, maybe form a new association, maybe strike a new conference up. Yeah. Maybe build a new community. But that would certainly be worth the effort compared to staying in the old, you know, in that malaise of people who don't see things like you do.

Yes. And you just accepting it. David: Totally agree. And especially if there's an environment there, like you're saying Glen, of like cynicism or negativity.

Right. Or arrogance. Or complacency. That is definitely not the oxygen that you want to be breathing.

Glenn: Yeah. Get outta the room and. Your views will need to, evolve. You also encourage us, you know, be ready.

And I kind of find this at, at least in the 2020s, where we find ourselves, this is not like a generational thing. This is every few years. You need to be prepared to morph your views. David: Yes.

Glenn: Yeah. And tell people where you are. And I think the value there, 'cause again, the resistance comes up, you know, the resistance. Is, well, wait a minute.

Doesn't that mean I'm admitting I was wrong? David: Yeah. Glenn: I think instead what you're doing is you're endearing yourself to your audience because if you are on a quest to learn. You should be progressing.

There should be things in your past that you are looking back on and going, that's what I thought then. Yeah, that was then. This is now. And they want to follow that path.

They see you over time. Make no mistake. People are watching us over time. David: Yeah.

Glenn: And if we are doing what you're saying and maybe cracking open your book regularly and answering those questions, we shouldn't be freaking out if our answers change with time. David: Yes, I would actually go even one step further, Glenn and say I'd be a little bit concerned if they're not changing over time. Glenn: Yeah. Or, or there's parts where you say, I'm ready to go this far.

I mean, you talk about sustainable, right? So sustainable I don't think means always burning the boats and saying, I'm going to this hill and I'm prepared to die on this hill. Sometimes you need to say, right now I have one foot in this camp. I am weighing this.

I think if we stay where we are, we'll be in danger, but I am not quite sure. But here's how it looks to me right now. David: Yeah. Glenn: And then if we're gonna carry those convictions out, you give us, a practical trio of activities that we should look.

To use to spread our ideas. You mentioned David: Yes. Glenn: Speaking, publishing, and what's your favorite one? David: Podcasting Glenn: podcast, David: speaking, publishing Glenn: podcasts.

David: Getting Glenn: meta again. David: That's Glenn: right. what is the magic in those three? And it sounds like three times the work, David, is it.

David: So once you've done all this great work on differentiation, positioning, thinking through all the strategy, you need an amplifier, right? An amplifier and a magnifier that will radiate this new, level of market eminence in front of the people that you want it to reach. So staying quiet, staying home, and just doing this within the four walls of your company or your agency or your organization is not gonna help anyone. Yeah, so speaking is great.

And then when I say speaking, I'm putting, speaking in a pretty big box. It's speaking at events, it's also speaking online, speaking offline. Your YouTube channel is a speaking strategy. Your live streaming is a speaking strategy.

Yes, of course, in person, your own events. Association events, corporate events, industry events, those are all speaking as well. Speaking is great because speaking is an amplifier. It's one to many prospecting, one to many sales, one to many message.

Dissemination and speaking both online and offline builds your visibility. Publishing is the second one. I don't mean publishing a book, but I mean publishing content regularly. So publishing on LinkedIn, publishing your newsletter, publishing an email publishing.

On social publishing, a blog, et cetera. Publishing is great because it puts concrete, uh, concrete assets into the hands of your stakeholders that they can look at that and they go, so that's how Glen thinks. Right. That's, you know, it, it's a little piece of value or insight or a mind spark that they hadn't considered before.

And so publishing builds your credibility. And then finally, the reason podcast guesting. And again, we can start with podcast guesting eventually. For some people it might make sense to host the podcast, but guesting is the easy one.

That is where you're borrowing other people's audiences. So if you have a strategic podcast, guesting strategy. Then it is very easy to amplify and magnify beyond your own audience, other people who are in alignment with your target market bring new people into the fold. So if you take those three together, the reason they work so well together is speaking increases your visibility, publishing increases your credibility, and podcasting increases your share ability.

Glenn: And on top of that, let's take a second to acknowledge for people who, like you said, stay in their own four walls. They should be okay with something that digital in particular has brought to us, which is this notion of. If you are speaking to a wider audience, then let's say, you're a handful of staff in the lunchroom at work. David: Yeah.

Glenn: If you are ready to speak on a podcast or from a stage, you're going to find this thing called parasocial relationships, where the people who are listening to you attach themselves not only to your point of view. But also to you, and that can have some, halo effect on your brand. David: Yes. Glenn: And your company, even let's say that you are a, executive within your company, it is a halo that you can even transition with you beyond working at that one company.

David: The ultimate portable asset is that when you become the face and the voice of your brand. You could go into the next chapter of your professional adventure, whatever that is. It could be, you're the CEO of one company you wanna jump over to be the CEO of another company. It could be that you're the CEO of a company and you're ready to retire and you want to be a speaker, podcaster, thought leader of some kind.

And that also is portable based on your work in all of these areas. And I also wanna share the big pushback I get with entrepreneurial companies is, David, if I become the face and the voice of my brand, this company will be unsellable. Glenn: Yeah. David: Right.

I will never be able to exit. I am building myself a trap. And this goes to what you were saying earlier in our interview, Glenn, that if you propagate this level of thinking where yes, it's initially led by the CEO, the founder, the face, the voice, the originator of this, but if it truly becomes the DNA of the company and then everyone in the executive suite, everyone on the front line embodies those philosophies, practices, and principles. You then become a much more desirable asset to acquire, because think about it.

An acquirer wants a standout company. They want the market leader. They don't want the same old lamo, vanilla blend in commoditized company. They want the company who is making a splash in the industry.

Glenn: Or, I'll say they might send their bean counters over if you are that beige company Yes. And the offer that you will get will be exactly what your multiple dictates. David: Yes. Glenn: But if your company, yes.

Acts differently. Thinks differently, talks differently. David: Yes. Glenn: Then now we're talking, a very large premium.

David: Yes, Glenn: So whether, and even if you don't want an acquisition, let's say it's succession, wouldn't you like to think that the DNA of what you founded this thing for in the first place is stitched into how it's going to be running years from now? David: Yes, absolutely. Glenn: Like all the reasons. David: There's all the reasons you got it.

Glenn: So, yes. Thank you very much for debunking, that, oh, I don't want to talk because then I'm stuck to the brand and I can't get out. No. That isn't gonna happen.

As a matter of fact, if you don't do this, you have bigger problems. David: Yes. Glenn: And if people want to learn about the book, learn about those resources, where can they go? David?

David: So couple of places for our conversation today, Glenn. All the free resources, bonuses, trainings, et cetera, are at marketeminence.com. That's probably the first place you want to go.

And then to learn more about me and what I do, it's do it marketing.com. But really as far as the market eminence, and by the way, you don't need to buy the book, you could buy the book, that'd be great, but you don't have to buy the book. The resources, downloads, and companion tools might stand you in good stead.

And again, those are at marketeminence.com. Glenn: Amazing. Thanks again for coming on the show, David.

David: So great to be here, Glenn. Thanks for having me. Glenn: Thanks again for listening to the end.