Episode 178: B2B content flywheels that generate 80% of pipeline with Diandra Escobar

This is the Full Funnel bt B Marketing podcast, brought to you by Full Funnel Doto. Let's start. Hey everyone, and sorry for the delay. I just have heard from the undre that she has some technical issues when trying to join the live podcast, so I just decided to not to leave you alone and not understanding what's happening.

So while we're waiting for help, I just wanted to share with you guys that in two weeks we're going to host our sevens annual Full Funnel Summit. And I dropped the link in the chat. Were already have more than one thousand sign ups. All across the globe.

There were a lot of questions about the agenda and yeah, I'm really sorry if the sign up process wasn't the most convenient one and we needed to maybe add the agenda to themand website. So anyhow, I wanted to describe you how we typically host the signed so you can plant. We have three days and we have three signed tracks and every day we'll have five live keynotes, so you guys welcome to join. All sessions will be live.

There are no pre recorded sessions, no product pitches, etc. So you can join us anytime and everybody who has signed up, you'll get access to all the recordings so you can talk to speakers, you can ask all the questions live, and our entire goal is to drive the knowledge from people who are in the trenches to our community. Just avoid any AI slob and any conversations about the nonsense that is happening right now everywhere. So that's the goal.

And I see the Andre gent as the Andra click go and stage and you can join the life should be a green bottom. Hello all, good to see you. Good, I see you. I'm sorry I got stuck on an elevator.

Quite an experience that happens. But the good thing is that you have joined us, and that's the. Most important one. So cool.

Today we have, as we have already announced, today we have the Undra Escabar, founder and CEO at Content Agency DISTINCTIL, and as promised, we're going to dive into the bit to B content fly wheels as the new approach to the content stread right the way how we need to think about the content today, considering all the changes in social algorithm, considering the changes in the organic search right, and the way how the search platforms are behaving. So that's the goal. As always, you guys are very welcome to ask any questions and we are going to cover them live and let us know.

Please where you all join us from. Let us know in the chat and where you are right now there. I am in Mexico City, actually so super super nice here, nice weather as you can see. Nice press from northwest India and I got to see you.

And there's such a pity designate coincidence with European AB and Forum PI. It is what it is. We can't do anything about this. Fronts are from friends.

My neighbor got to see you, Kelly from Florida. I got to see you nice again. We have our international audience. So cool to see you guys again.

Anytime you want to ask the question, just feel free to drop it in the chat and we'll make the sure. We'll make sure we'll cover it well. I would love to kick it off. I just read some stats from your partner in crime, Sarah, when she was promoting the sim Rush report about the organic search and basically, according to sim Rush, fifty seven percent of marketers report decline in organic search traffic right and only twenty six percent see any revenue impact at the same time.

I was a couple of weeks ago, I was writing a newsletter about the format the content formats that are working right now in B to B and I just was going through the analysis of what's happening with LinkedIn. Right, everybody is complaining about the reach going down, which is absolutely true and by fact, I I have seen one research whether researchers claimed that in Q three, twenty twenty five, organic creach hit its lowest level, just going sixty five percent. I compare it like a few days ago.

I just compared my stats. It's fifty two percent down compared to the same period. The yeah go and yeah. Also another stats about the company's pages.

Right, the company's pages also lost visibility in the news feed, kind of making maybe two percent of the news feed. But what that's really interesting, Uh, when we were chatting with you, and obviously looking at some of your LinkedIn posts, you have clients that, despite of all of this, they are crushing with linked In. They have good reach, they have good engagement, they have good open rates with the newsletters. Right, And obviously that requires that you need to change your approach.

I know that you speak a lot about the content. Let grows right, But this means that you need to go from static content calendars to the content fly wheels right where every piece of content is built on the previous one. So you have the compound interest and now go into the practical part. That's a long intro.

Can you explain how that framework works and why it works and maybe if you want, you can walk us through Distinctive or any of the clients. Yeah, so, first of all, thank you so much for having me, and hello to everyone in the chat. Great to see people from all over the place. I lived in France for a year, I've been to Croagia to speak at conferences, lived in Spain for like three months, so really cool to see some some places that I've been either living or been there before.

Second of all, yes, so I think for a little bit of context for everyone, we kind of need to before we find strategies and solutions to how to solve the reach throttling, how to solve my LinkedIn isn't working as it was before. To solve how do I actually make money out of content? We need to understand why did it change? Like why is it that we're living through what we're living through as marketers as founders, as head of growths, where we know content is important and we need to use it to either grow our personal brands or grow our companies.

But why was it that there's such a huge shift a year or two years from now? And it's because the game changed? What does that mean? Most content strategies we built a few years ago ago were built for a world that no longer exists.

Why because a little friend called katchob T came along. So what happened with chatchubu te They not only is it now not only just chatchbut but now we have Mistroll, Now we have Claude, Now we have Lama Meta, Gemini, Deep Seek. Like there are so many tools out there now that allow two things. One for people to access information a lot easier.

So why am I going to scroll on LinkedIn read a long post just to get a how to information guide? Right? Like? When I could just ask my little assistant chatchoob T and it'll give me an answer right away and it'll be a pretty decent answer.

Second is because now the people that were creating content before that, they had to actually write and take a long time. Now anyone can write content, So there is so much spam out there, so for you to be able to come in front of everybody, you have to try to get out of all of that noise. So because the game changed, not only do we have organic reach is throttled. AI rewrote the rules, but now we also have search everywhere.

So before it was pretty easy, you know, Okay, I go to Google and I search for something. I scroll on LinkedIn to get some sort of like inspiration from the people I like. Now it's like I can go on to any of these tools. I can go onto YouTube, I can go into Reddit, I can go So discovery is just fragmented across ten different services.

So for this reason, I've been working with clients because I have a content marketing agency myself. If anyone here is panicking over organic reach or anything like that, imagine how I was panicking a few months ago. I literally have an agency that does this, and I was like, oh my god, I was getting like what Andrey said, I was getting one hundred k impressions on post fifty k twenty k, and now a post hits twenty k max, and I'm like, oh, I went viral, Like it's crazy the amount of numbers that changed, and One, it's hard for our ego because it's not easy to see big numbers and then have to accept the smaller ones.

And two it's also scary because at least myself, I have a content marketing agency that does this for clients. I was like, Okay, I'm out of business. This is it. I'm going to go sell and panas in Colombia.

By the way, I'm Colombian, so it's like, this is it? Like what am I going to do? And the solution we found and what Andrea was saying is we've getting We've been getting insane numbers with the new strategy we've built, and it's because we've built it around different strategies so to be more tactical. The first one is what I call content flywheels.

So instead of just let's say, putting all our eggs on LinkedIn, we make sure to actually build something that works for us and doesn't have us trying to post on one platform and another platform and nothing is really connected. So we make sure that every single of our clients has the rented media, so something where we can get big eyeballs let's say a YouTube, let's say a LinkedIn, and then an owned media anything that has to do with a newsletter, something that you can actually have the emails.

So that would be my main, main, main, main, and most important strategy you have for yourself or for a company. You need to own your audience somewhere, because maybe reach dies even more, maybe reach goes up, maybe you get banned from a platform, maybe your company, you leave your company, or whatever it is that you really need to be owner of something, and the best thing you can own is emails. So that's the first strategy we came in, and the amount of revenue we've been able to bring our clients has been insane through email.

So we use LinkedIn as being able to get eyeballs and we push them to the newsletter. Then the second strategy, and that's why I also think like we've been able to get such insane numbers on LinkedIn for our clients is we stopped playing the old playbook. And the problem with us old influencers of LinkedIn the ogs is that it's really hard for us to adapt because we're used to what we were doing before and we just keep we just keep forcing the fact that we want what worked before to keep working and what we do with newer clients is we don't play with the old playbook.

We've been doing newsjacking, brand jacking, so many different name jacking, different strategies around it, and they've been absolutely blowing up. So my two to answer the next question you have is like, how are we managing to get these numbers is we're just not playing the old playbook. We're playing a content flywheel playbook which feeds in different media and allows them to actually build revenue through different channels because again searches everywhere, people are all over the place.

And then two, we stopped playing the old playbook and we've been playing new strategies that are working. And that's why even some smaller accounts are beating us the ogs because they don't have that old LinkedIn mindset and they're playing around with different type of strategy. Is So that would be my two answers for that. I love it.

So if maybe you can just walk us through any example, just Ininctiva or any client, you don't need to name it, but just to give an idea how that looks like. Right, So let's say we have two parts here, right, we have own media, we have rented media. Makes perfect sense and honestly, the narrative, the right narrative about having own media has been here for years, but companies that was always, from my humble opinion, absolutely relevant argument newsletters, so that who is going to read the newsletters?

Right? But the truth is completely opposite. But that's another story. So we have this and then we have like you said, we still have the thought leadership done in a different format.

Right. So what I'm wondering if you can just maybe walk us through an action of example, these are the posts that we're published, and then for example we combine this and kate a new sletter and well do YouTube? How that looks like and how the distribution looks like. Yeah, so I work with companies like SEM, Rush, Hay, reach Backlinko, some pretty big, let's say, like SaaS companies.

And it's funny because you would think that the companies with the most budget would be the ones doing the most and usually it's never like that. You see, like the scrappy startups that they have a newsletter, they have a YouTube, they have a LinkedIn profile, they actually are building this flywheel. But then bigger companies they weren't really doing that. And what we found out, for example with with SEM Rush and Backlinko.

They were great at blogs like they've always been, you know, like the SEO place to go. But with the the new LLM coming in, the new llm's coming in and deciding what the sites and making things a lot more complicated. They also saw, oh my god, we need to be on different channels. YouTube is a really good place.

Newsletters LinkedIn, So we've been building all of their executives LinkedIn and to walk you guys through what a flywheel would look like. So for example, for our client backlink Code, what we do is they create a blog. So there has to be a source of subject matter expertise, because the problem with a lot of content flywheels or people trying to build you know, on different channels be everywhere is they're not even sourcing from a place that actually has genuine value and then they're just putting anything everywhere.

So there has to be a source of subject matter expertise. Let's say you have someone you work at a company where you are not the subject matter expert, where you're the head of marketing of that company, and let's say you guys are selling something about like cybersecurity or something you don't really know. You need to find a way to put that subject matter expertise in one platform and in a long form one because if you managed to put that in one place, it's going to be a lot easier to do the repurposing on other different channels.

And the problem is we try to create a content flywheel from one source that doesn't have enough subject matter expertise. In this case, for backline Co, their blog has a ton of subject matter expertise because they go and hire SEO experts to write their blog to they find someone that had a good strategy and they get them to write the blog. So the blogs are full of a lot of a lot of interesting, valuable insights and their long form so they allow us to be able to extract and create from the other side.

The problem when you try to create a content flywheel that sources from LinkedIn, it's too short form, it's too instant, it's too trend based. So you're gonna have a hard time because you're like, how am I gonna make this tiny little post into five different channels? Like Deandro said, it was so easy, and I can do one site multiple channels, each of them have a different job. But it's just it's just not possible.

That's because you're starting from a place that isn't giving you enough information. So what we do with BACKLINKO is we know that and this source of information can be different. Maybe you guys aren't doing se blog and maybe it's like a webinar like this one. You guys can literally grab my transcript and create a blog out of it, a step by step process, then a LinkedIn post and a carousel, and there's so many things that can come out of there.

But find that source where you're going to be able to extract the most knowledge that is long form. So what we do, for example, is we get the blog from the blog, we create a YouTube video. So the YouTube video is script everything animated, it goes there. The YouTube video is then posted on the head of Growth's LinkedIn page, which we've grown from zero to thirty five k now and we promote the YouTube channel so his people are coming back to the YouTube channel.

And YouTube is an amazing format to actually build trust because people are spending so much time with you, they're seeing you. And in today's world, I am seeing a huge bet on B to B companies and bigger companies moving to YouTube because it's the only one that still hasn't been able to be attacked by AI. Avatars are coming, for sure, but it's like a place where you can actually you know, showcase, go longer form and if someone has spent twelve minutes, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes with you.

I just started my YouTube channel. We've worked with a lot of clients on YouTube, but I just started my YouTube channel like three weeks ago and I've already signed like three clients out of it. You know how long it took me on LinkedIn to sign my first client. I had to post for like two years before I actually started something.

So the amount of trust, it's a lot of work. It's one of the heaviest platforms to actually build on because it's like long form editing animation, but it's really good. Then from the YouTube channel, we then push to their newsletter, so their newsletter promotes, their LinkedIn post promotes their blog, promotes their YouTube channel, and then we create a carousel out of all of that. So I don't know, do you think can I share my screen here any change?

Yeah? Of course? How does that work? On the left side, you should have this screen share the tiny icon with the display.

Screen Okay, so how does that look in practice? This is basically what it looks like. Right, So blog goes into this was about if you guys see here, This was about generative generative engine optimization, how to win an AI search. Full on blog, very good subject matter expert here wrote it.

Then we come in and we create a YouTube video out of it. It was the first YouTube, one of the first YouTube videos we posted on that channel three kviews, which is really good for a channel that literally has zero followers. Then that same blog turned into the newsletter. The newsletter is promoting people to go to the YouTube video.

The newsletter is also promoting people to go to the LinkedIn post. The LinkedIn post is promoting people to go to the YouTube, and then the blog is created into a carousel that also performed extremely well. So as you can see, it just saves so much time for marketers, for founders who people wanted to build a brand, for people overwhelmed with the whole AI is everywhere, I need to be everywhere. Love it.

That's actually an awesome example. While you was sharing, there were a couple of questions, So maybe I try to answer them, but maybe I can just give you a perspective. So, first of all, the question about the old playbook, what do you mean by this? I just said that, and I'm curious.

OBJECTS said, yeah, yes, I said that the old playbook. When it comes to content, right, how I was thinking about it. Typically there is a content plan, right. The content plan is based on the keywords, right.

Everybody wants to write for the keyword with the highest possible traffic, lower competition. Right. Then the content is created, the content is published maybe on a few companies pages on Facebook, linked and Twitter, etc. There is no distribution.

We have cale in place, right, and that's it. And then in the best case scenario, the company works with agency, right, and then kind of pushes that agency to get the backlinks for that content. So likely the content will the rent and you'll get the organic traffic. Right.

But let me know if if you would at any and or maybe you define it differently. Yeah, so there is exactly what you said. I This is actually a presentation I did at a conference in Belgrade, Serbia. So it's pretty cool because we're talking about the same topic and a lot of things are easier maybe to see visually, But it's exactly what you said before.

It was a calendar. It was you plan something, you publish it, It's done, it's over. Each piece is like standalone. It has no compounding effect and you're starting from zero every single time.

With the new strategy in terms of actually like content flywheels, is that each piece is feeding the next. The content compounds over time and you only have to invest once in that insight to be able to get a system that runs for you. And the example I was giving you guys for example of why it's also important for AI. If you guys, you guys are founders, head of marketings, vps of girls, whatever your role is, or if you have a business yourself, you know that A big topic now is like how do I rank on AI?

How do I get chatpt to recommend my tool for to be the best my profile, to be the one to follow my agency, to be the one to look well. The best way to do that is something that I call LLLM seating. So what you do is you're planting seats every everywhere to be able to get cited by AI. Because what does AI do?

AI goes and finds from different to seo right like you would put a keyword, would go and you find it and that's it. So Google would just make sure that you had it was really easy to game it with stuffing a bunch of keywords so that you can get in the first place and that's it. So you would go to Google, you'd click on the first blue link, you would get your information. You would leave.

Now because it's different and AI search works in a different way, like you can show here. Before the classical search was just check Google, visit, website, money, that's it. Now it's like AI search tool. Then they see all these other tools, then they recognize the brand, and then they finally decide to search for the brand directly.

So it was predictable. It was one path and it was one winner. Now it's pulling from everywhere. So now you have to think in pro of what the future is going to look like, and the best way to do that is to do LLLM seating.

So if you start seating in LinkedIn, in YouTube, in reddits, in medium, substack, newsletters, guest post pr this that we're doing right here. If this goes, for example, on a YouTube channel, everything I'm saying, the LMS can go and grab the transcript and now they have more information about Deander Escobar. So if I go into chattypt, Claude, whatever tool you use right now, and I say, who is Deander Escobar, how are they getting that information? They aren't just facing themselves on what I say I am on LinkedIn.

They're also going to look on every single other place and every single other platform to see if that narrative is coherent and cohesive to actually give the user a right answer. So what do you need to do? You need to start planting seeds everywhere so that when the AI goes and searches in one place, searches in the other, searches the other place, like oh okay, the coherent narrative between all of these places is this, and then it harvests the actual answer. So that's why it's so important.

And it's also so important for you to go and check where maybe your narrative isn't correct. If maybe you got featured in a blog where now it's different to what you are currently doing at your company, go get that changed. When you are on a podcast or when you're on something, make sure to be very clear who you are and what you do. Like, Hi, I'm DeAndre Ascobar.

I'm the founder of the Sindia, co founder of the Workflow, and we build content engines on LinkedIn, newsletter and YouTube. That that I just said, if it's grabbed by an LLM and the transcript, they have the same information, because I've said in every other podcast I've ever been. So that's why it's so important and that's how the old playbook completely just died because of it. I love it.

So a couple of follow up questions questions from Nadezhda. She asked, is the content actual they've written by subject sme guys so it was easier to type in the chat. Sme means subject matter expert. So is the long form piece actually written by subject matter expert?

So, I said, So it's ideal scenario, but typically it's not the case. So usually the content team interviews, records the interior, transcribes that intereo and creates the piece of con right, because like Nadesda said, it's it's a challenge to make sure that subject matter experts contribute and to make them right. It's literally impossible, right, So any tips on how to get subject matter experts on this introo is literally what means how to make sure that they care about that process.

So that is the hardest thing in content when the person that is creating the content isn't the subject matter expert. And it's kind of it's kind of sad, let's say, quote unquote, if that's the right word, because honestly, and I'm a person that posts on LinkedIn myself, but I started growing on LinkedIn when I was twenty two years old. I lived in Colombia, had no experience. And it's not to put myself down, but I'm one hundred percent sure that at that time that I started blowing up on there was someone a lot more experienced than me, a lot more expert in their subjects.

But why did I actually start growing Because I had something of the Dunan Kruger effect, which is like the amount of peak stupid, which is like you just have confidence because you don't know anything and you still post. The problem with subject matter experts is because they know so much and they kind of most of don't even care about like social media and a lot of stuff, is that they're the ones that post the least. Like, honestly, the people that know the most are probably the person that post the least.

So you can expect, let's say, to get someone within a subject matter expert to create a piece of content or to want to if they say they they don't like that. But what you can do, as let's say a marketer or someone within your team, so you can hop on a call with them, ask them questions, get them excited to talk about certain topics in a way that you know they will be willing to give you that information. Maybe like forcing them every single day, like please write a LinkedIn post.

Write LinkedIn post is good for our company, or this or that won't work because maybe they're just not interested. And something that happens a lot with people that know the most is that they're the ones that least want to post because the more you know, the more ignorant you know you are, and you know that there's more people that know more than you, and then it just becomes this whole ball effect where like the people that know the most and the most the most experts in their topic are the ones least posting.

So find a way to be able to extract their content. It's kind of like how I do with my content marketing agency, what do we do with founders, executives and people that we are managing their posts because we ghost, right, we design, we write, we engage, We literally do everything for them from zero is we just hop on a call like we're having right now, and we're getting a conversation and we're able to extract that knowledge from them in a much more easier way than expecting them to write a post love it.

I'll just add maybe five cents as kind of another way how to tackle this. What we do for ourselves and for the SAWA clients as a part of a of Aquata ABM programs, we do count based content strategy planning and it's like two to three hours workshop with sales leaders with subject matter experts and basically we pick up this the part of the cluster target and we pick up one specific use case, primary buyer persona, relevant verticals, and then do the entire use case decomposition, asking about the challenges, the status quo.

We are dealing with, the misconceptions and misbeliefs right from the target accounts. Then developing this big narrative, like you said, so the core like let's say cornerstone piece of content, right, what like let's say what type of framework we want to deliver an our case, We're almost traded just maybe behind the scenes announcement We're almost READI was our first book, and this book was purely based on our ABM campaign. It was all about full final B to B marketing. But the narrative be twigt it how to survive as B to B CMO in the era of long sales cycles and AI.

Right, So that this assuming the webinar that we hosted last year was maybe fifteen hundred sign ups, we didn't even expect. That's kind of that demand and that interest in that topic. So all of this happens during the one workshop. Then you go down you ask all the follow up questions and literally you spend maybe two to three hours a month, but you get tons of inputs.

You get tons of questions from sales because they're in the trenches. They provide kind of additional insights, right, So lots of this becomes your cornerstone, cornerstone transcript that you can use for the social pieces of content, for the newsletters, et cetera. So this is kind of another way of thinking about it. And we have a couple of questions which I feel are really relevant.

So one is from Tresa and one from myself. So let me let me formulate it that way. So let's say if I am a B to B CMO right, and I want to implement this framework, where should we start and how to implement that step by step? Because what Tresas said, I will just bring it right.

Let's say, imagine we have just small team, only two full time marketers, which is the case for most mid size was even not midsize are small size companies? Right? It feels overwhelming to try to manage so many channels. But I think, how we need to rephrase this question, not do you think it's still realistic?

But what is realistic to do with this resources? How would you adjust it? So, surprisingly enough, it's not only small companies that have such small marketing teams. There was a study I saw a few months ago that they interviewed a bunch of marketers at small teams, media teams, and big teams, and like the max amount of people was insane.

It was like max ten for like a huge company. Within the marketing team also, and for example, Anthropics marketing team was like a one person marketing team for like the longest and it's like a huge company. So first we need to understand as marketers that Honestly, it happens a lot for us to be very overwhelmed, for it to be only one, two, three, five max ten marketing people within like a huge company. So we need to be very smart with our time and our strategy because we have the CEO on top of us selling.

I was like, what's the KPI? What are the results? How? And You're like, yeah, I just started the strategy.

Can you give me? Can you give me a few a few months? And honestly, that happens a lot. So the only thing I know is scrappy.

I've always worked at startups. I've never worked at a bigger company than ten people before and when I and I've started a new agency as well as myself and we're not that many and we manage a bunch of clients. So what you need to do is you need to be very very smart with the tools you use and with the channels you choose to be on. So anything I would do at the beginning is to do research, because the only issue, let's say, with podcasts and conferences is like I can't literally sit down with each one of you and see what industry you're in, what resources do you have, who's your ICP, because again, in marketing, it all depends on that.

But the universal principle that can work for anyone here no matter what industry they have or what ICP is to do the research. See, Okay, what are the channels that our ICP is finding information on. Sometimes we'll have people where I'm like, honestly, maybe YouTube isn't the place you should be trying, or LinkedIn isn't the place you should be trying. Maybe you should be trying Seo, even though people say SEO is dead, Like there's always a different channel.

But the first mindset change is I'm going to do research and I'm going to find where my ICP is. First. Once I found that, I'm like, okay, I've noticed that a lot of our ideal customers are scrolling on LinkedIn. They're finding information, but they're also trying to get the step by step process on YouTube.

So once I've defined the channels I'm going to tackle, I'll tackle those, and once I start tackling them, I get that long form piece whereas I'm actually going to extract the subject matter expertise. So let's say, Okay, I found out that I want to be on LinkedIn and on a newsletter, for example, So why don't I just start the long form piece of content with the subject matter experts as the newsletter, and then I extract that into LinkedIn. So it really has to be a mindset of thinking, where is my source of content going to be from that I can easily extract from.

Then comes Okay, I did the research, I know where to go. I've chosen my channels, and I've chosen my main source of information. And let's say where I'm actually going to be able to repurpose this content. Now I need to use the AI tools that are out there in my disposal.

So honestly, it's getting even more insane than ever. Claude with Claud skills with Claud Cowork is absolutely a monster, and it's one of those things that maybe as a marketer myself also scares me. But if you build a good Claud skill that understands how to repurpose from your long form content into the other pieces, it could get you eighty percent there. And I have an agency.

Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, and I should tell you guys, oh no, you need an agency to do this outsource everything. But honestly, there's a lot of potential you can do and a lot of things you can do just with like a claud skills that is very well organized. That's what we do at the workflow for example, it's just my newsletter. We break down different how to use AI and automations for content and marketing.

But once you've found again, research what channels I'm looking for, what's my main source of let's say truth, and then how am I going to utilize the tools that are out there in my disposal? I started playing with openclaw for example, and let me tell you guys that it's insane, Like we do a lot of news jacking for our clients because something that happens is we're a small marketing team. We are a logo that no one recognizes, and I'm trying to break through the noise of a bunch of huge LinkedIn influencers that are just engaging on each other's posts.

How do I do that? One of the best ways to do that is what I call newsjacking, brand jacking and name jacking. Using a news within your industry. Because if no one knows who you are, no one knows your company, no one knows your name, they will be interested in the news within their industry because it is relevant for everyone.

So you can be a literally a no one and you can go viral on LinkedIn. With these type of things. You can't just become a journal reporter, right, but if you use a correct news that is relevant with your industry, you're one of the first ones to report it, and then you say why people should care, You explain it in a really good way, and then you tie it to your company. It's one of the best ways to go viral, for example, on LinkedIn and to be able to bring in new eyeballs.

Then you have to combine it with what I call authority content, which exactly showing that you know what you're doing. So there's so many ways that small teams can get huge rests with again the whole process I just had of a content flywheel and then playing little tactics. So this open Claw AI agent that I've just built, which actually I think I'm gonna in the in the workflow, I think it's one of the probably the fourth issue coming next that I'm gonna explain how to actually plug in open claw and create that.

We've created an AI agent that goes and finds news relevant news within the industry of our person. Every single day it comes and it sends it to our Slack channel and it tells us, hey, because again we have an agency. So this person client in the SEO agency, these are the latest news. This person in the LinkedIn let's say industry, these are the latest news the AI.

We have someone that works with AI and all of that. These are the latest news. We go into our AI agent, we extract that and we create a piece of content. And the amount of numbers and like let's say, views we've been able to get for our clients is insane.

So probably that would be kind of like the step by the process for a smaller team is finding your source of truth finding, using the right tools, be able to maximize your output, choosing the right channels, and then just being scrappy at the end of the day. I love it. We have a couple of questions that I pushed the Q and A, but before we'll cover them, I think, well, we're talking about the strategy itself. I would love to ask I know, not provocative question, but I think very relevant.

Let's say some people are listening to us right now and they might think, okay, that's everything that de Andra says, makes perfect sense. But we are already run in this flywheel. So we're posting something and linked in, we have the news letter, we're doing the webinars, but we're not getting a lot of results, and oppositely, our reach is going down, right, executives a question and as all metrics honestly are going down. So if you have heard this argument right for the first time, ovis so we can immediate Let's say the quality is the most important thing and how you're doing this.

But anyhow, let's say, if you are hearing. This argument right, how would you audit what the company is doing and how would you present the gaps or the problems? And the framework can explain what should be done differently, right, because the fact that you are doing things but not doing them the right way right, this is kind of quite often the challenge. So yeah, that definitely is the biggest challenge.

It's like finding what is it that I'm doing wrong and how can I do it better? So my main let's say, starting point always comes with research, because if you don't really know the landscape, what working and what's not working, you're just guessing and throwing spaghetti to the wall. And throwing darts to see wherever it lands. Right, So the first thing I would do is do research.

Are there competitors within your space that are doing well? Go and steal like an artist. I always say this metaphor because I feel that the best strategy in marketing today is to steal like an artist. What do artists do?

A monette of the world? Right, would get inspiration from the other the first impressionisms that were before him and stuff like that, and then he created the first paintings you'll see that were very kind of like a copy of the previous artists that existed and then started creating their own strategy. So stealing like an artist is going and finding people, that's say, within your industry competitors, I don't know, other industry leaders, other influencers. What are they doing differently to me that is working?

So you do that research and then you're probably just through that research. If it's like one day research, two day research, a three day research, you're gonna find so many gaps within your content that you're gonna be like, oh wow, I didn't think about it. But if you just go blindly, you just are so like squared inside your mind of like, this is how I want to do it, but it's not working, and then you just try other ways. So my first first step would always be to go in and find what other people are doing right.

Not the mega influencers, not the huge maybe brands, but maybe like what are the outliers? And that's for example, how I started my YouTube. How if we've started all of our clients YouTube and we had zero followers, nothing, and they started blowing up? Why Because I didn't just start creating content.

Because I went and I looked at all the people that were doing things correctly, and I would find their outliers. What are the outlier posts, what are the outlier videos, what are the outlier newsletters? And what is it inside? And it's kind of like a thing of taste.

You start understanding the taste, you start understanding the art of it, and you can easily come in. So my main thing would be do some research, find what's working, to be able to find the gaps within yours, and then also find your own outliers. Maybe you've had a few posts that have post on LinkedIn, post on YouTube, newsletters, wherever it is that you're trying to create this content flywell and find your own own outliers and be like, Okay, why does this work and why does this don't?

So one hundred percent would be finding the gaps within your own content and then finding the outliers and other people's content to be able to do that research and that audit. Okay, and let's say if I'm going to pick this up, right, and I have an idea of how let's say our content flywheel looks like I'm coming to my CEO, right, and I'm saying, Okay, this is the framework that I want to implement. I want you and our leadership to let's say, publish some content to do to raise brand awareness, right, to do the norchurin of our target account because we can stay top of the mind, etc.

Right, And I need to involve you or another subject matter expert dependent on who we are selling to, right, and for this and your here back. Okay, it's time consuming. Why you can't do this with AI? Right?

How would you argue in that case and defend this framework? Maybe you can just give a specific example where AI generated content fails and also where do you see the role of AI. Yeah, so, Andre, you've been on LinkedIn for a while, just like I am, and you probably remember that. I don't remember if you did these type of post because I felt that you've always been kind of like ahead of the game, because you've been always like value driven how I content.

But I, for example, I did do this at the beginning. I'm one hundred percent guilty, those like basic carousels where I was like how to do something one, two, three, four, and they would blow up like they would go insanely viral. The difference today with AI generated content is that AI can spin that app super easily. How to do something is going to be so much more faster to find THROUGHWBT, through an LLM, through whatever LM of your choice.

But what will never be able to be replaced by AI is how I or how we, for example within the company. So the case of AI generated slop being not useful and you having to move your strategy is just the fact that it's so easy to create. And with anything, the more some of resource is easy to find, the less of its value. Right, So plastic is really easy to create, so it's very cheap to do plastic.

Gold isn't easy to find, so gold is much more expensive, so you need to create expensive valuable rare content to be able to get out of the AI slop world that exists. So the easiest let's say, argument against AI generated content and actually building a strategy that is based on how I is just the fact that it's much more rare content to find the other side, so it just becomes much more valuable. Same thing as like plastic and gold would be. Yeah, that's a perfect one.

Also, I think what is really important to do is if let's say that is a pressure right to bolt AI on everesth And I mean, you can't do a lot here, even if you'll start with the change management. Still you need to do this. I think the best way is just to prepare the comparison right before and after. So here's what we were doing with let's say manual effort, right, And I again I would be conservative a bit to b better around, but I would say you need to connect the dots to the revenue.

Right. You can always say you can always talk to sales, right, speak to them which content actually helped to drive the pipeline? Right? Are there any content assets that they're using in the conversation they are distributing it?

Right? So you can always pick up that narrative, right, because leadership always listens to sales. Right, So, and then you can compare it to the AI production. Okay, this is what we are producing with AI sales.

They don't want to use this content, right, the engagement will published. The engagement is going down all the time. The further we had, let's say, engagement from the strategic accounts. Now we don't have the strategic accounts engagement.

And it's not because of the linked and rich. It's because even like having this conversation with your subject matter expert, Okay, this is what I have created with AI. Is it good if like, let's say, if I would give it to you, would you publish it on your profile? If your subject matter expert the neediately says no, it's a crap, right, it's a perfect answer that you have a real content problem.

So a couple of these things, and well, I would love to ask you before we have all the questions, and guys, don't worry. I just pushed your questions to the Q and A will cover them. But I just really want to answer, Sorry, to ask a couple of questions that are super relevant to everybody today. So let's say, I mean typically an enterprise B to B right, the decision is made by the buying committee, and the high you are climbing, right, the more market you are going, the more people will be involved eight twelve, sixteen buyers per committee, et cetera.

Right, most of these people if you're not selling to market ors, if you're not selling to salespeople, right, if you are selling to IT procurements, right, and other departments, they're not active and I mean in that sense they're not actively engaging on LinkedIn. How does a content flywheel reach let's say the VP of it who doesn't engage with any cel how to show actually how to share that the distribution and your content reaches the target buyer persona that's hard to reach.

There is something I like saying, which is every piece of content needs a job. And it kind of relates to what you were saying in terms of like talk to your sales team, see which pieces of content are helping them more sell. But as a marketer, it's the reality we can't just think about selling. We have to think about reach as well, because we need to get more eyeballs to bring in more potential customers.

So, when you are a marketer, you're in this, You're like between a sword and a wall of like, oh god, I need to get more reach, but I also need to bring us more money. So my sales team is asking me, okay, we need to bring in more money, but then my marketing manager I don't know, is telling me like, we need to get more reach. So for those things to happen, you need to have a content mix, which is between conversion content, which is probably twenty percent, because the more you're trying to sell something to people more they're going to just tune off and be like, Okay, this person just trying to sell me with their content.

There's no value here, authority content, which actually brings in let's say the trust, and then the growth content. So I always classified in those three buckets growth content, authority content, and conversion content. The growth content is let's say your reach plays. That's where you can get a little bit more creative as a marketer to bring in more reach, to bring in more impressions, to bring in more of like the ego boosting numbers with the strategy I was giving you guys, with newsjacking, with brand jacking, with name jacking, with things that you know are going to get mass appeal, but still targeted to an ICP.

It's not that I'm saying post the most fluffiest piece of content that that's growth, Like, that's not what I mean. What I mean with growth is that something can be For example, let's say you are in healthcare, so someone there was trying to target healthcare cmos and head of growth. Healthcare is a hard industry. I used to work at a medtech company as well, because people they are scrolling on LinkedIn, but they aren't really like interacting, they aren't engaging.

They're like lurkers. They're ghosts. You have no idea what they like because you can't. You don't even get signals from them of like what they're commenting and what they're liking.

They don't even post, and you're like, how do I do the research? Deandra told me it's like, literally, no one is posting within my industry. So there is where you play these growth let's say tactics and play, which is you think about what are certain news that even though they are such lurkers and they would never comment on a post where we're saying like, oh look at our company, we're so good, we do this, which is like the conversion content to be able to bring in people. So what would get them engaging and what would get their eyeballs interested?

The latest Let's say I'm super a longevity freak. I love everything that has to do with health and stuff like that. So let's say there's a new research in terms of bananas being good for your health. I don't know, something crazy like that that just brings in more mass appeal, that brings in more growth, and that brings in those eyeballs from the right people.

Are you going to base all your content on just the latest research, the latest name a news jacking name Jackie Brown jack and grabbing someone's face, someone big within. Let's say I don't know Brian Johnson, if you guys know anything about longevity, like just using his face on a post would probably bring in more people. Or like Andrew Huberman or someone big within your space using their face, using a logo, using a news that just came out to be able to bring more eyeballs. Then you create the second content, which this content's job is to bring in eyeballs from the right people and mass appeal, but it has nothing to do with it.

Let's say your company if you're giving the latest news of someone big within your industry. It has nothing to do with your company, So you might say like, oh, why am I creating this content? This is to bring the people in. Then the authority content is the one that's not going to show that you guys know what you do.

So we do this. This is our latest research. This is our step by step process, this is our framework, This is how we do things. And then the actual conversion content is the one where you actually ask for like, hey, I just stepped every I just did a step by step process on how to do this in our newsletter.

Go sign up to get the full thing. So every piece of content needs a job, and that's why you need to have a good content mix. The job of the growth content is to bring in the eyeballs and bring in bigger audiences. The job of the authority content is to build trust and get people to trust you.

The conversion content is to actually bring in the money, the sales and the revenue. Makes perfect sense, thank you. One last question one. I will skip about collaboration with sales because we don't have time for this, But last question from myself, and then we'll cover the questions in the Q and A.

Remember when we spoke about adapting the framework to the smaller teams, right, you mentioned COO is the CEO is pushing you way. The results, et cetera. Right, So I'm just wondering. Let's say if I'm a B to B CMO with the long sale cycles, and obviously I won't see mediating boundaryquests of pipeline, right, this is just the nature of the business.

But let's say if I implement your framework now in March, right, and my CEO asks me in June like, what did we get from this content investment? Right? What should I show him? How would you report any metrics whatever?

Right? Basically the key question is how can we defend the framework gif CLSSK but with different close. Innocent the best way is to actually understand and explain in the best way what each piece of content strategy is. So if you talk to your CEO and you tell him, look, yeah, this post blew up, but it didn't bring us any clients, but it's bringing in the eyeballs for us to create the authority content and the conversion content, I think no CEO would be upset with that.

I think the biggest problem with marketing teams and community. Communicating to CEO or telling them kind of like defending their content strategy and their content system and their content framework why they did certain posts is just a communication problem because if you explain to your CEO why you're doing every single thing and how it's a funnel that yes, this post didn't bring in clients, but this post is the one that's going to bring us the eyeball to the authority content, and the authority content is the one that's going to allow us to actually bring in a conversion because how are you going to close if all you're posting is conversion type posts and you're not bringing eyeballs to actually funnel them in.

It's almost impossible. And that's why it happens a lot that we're posting. We're posting and we're trying to sell. We're trying to sell.

First we're not getting impressions, and then we're not getting sales, and then we're not getting anything. That's why there has to be a content mix. So it's always, always, always a communication problem. If you understand well your strategy, what you're thinking, why each piece of content is there for, and what's its job, Your CEO should understand it just by communicating, and if they don't, maybe it's not the right company to be in, right, because it's always I've found out that it's always a communication problem.

If you or if you're able to explain and defend your strategy why it's happening, they should be able to to understand. Okay, perfect claled. So there are a couple of questions about the slides and I mentioned this in the comments, but would have to say one more time, guys, Deandra to Gazavez help partner for the workflow project. Sarah will be presented at alla full Funnel Summat.

The sign up link in the pint message full Final dota O slash Summat where you can sign up and you'll listen to the entire framework breakdown and you can get the slides as well. So don't hesitate to sign up, share with your colleagues and we'll see you then. And now it's a time for the Q and A. Let me pick up the questions that we have a question from Lena at one point do you introduce the ceosot leadership content.

The thing I want to dive into is what are the main barriers your face when working with the executives. Yes, the main strugg We work with a lot of CEOs and a lot of founders, and the main barrier we face is just time. Usually right like they're like, I don't have time. They don't do it themselves, so I don't know, Lenna.

If you are the one managing the content, just the strategy, you're gonna be posting for them what you're planning to do with the CEO's thought leadership. If it's either like motivate him to do it or you're willing to let' say come in and gost writ posts and do it for him, but or her, the strategy there is hop on a call, it's I've done everything right, Like we have an agency that literally builds thought leadership on LinkedIn for a bunch of executive CEOs, business founders, et cetera, et cetera.

And the best way is to block their calendar and be like you need to spend one hour with me a week or every two weeks. They're blocked, they have no way to run. You don't have to chase them through Slack. You don't have to chase them through like pinging them.

Make sure they're getting it you're burning out. If you have that hour with them to one ask them the right questions to be able to You can use a transcript as well. Again, use the tools you have. Go on a riverside, go on to Google meet, get your Fathom recorder, get whatever meeting recorder you use.

On the call with you ask them the questions. You get that full transcript. Not only is it amazing content for them to start posting, but also it's content that's going to be in their voice because it's the literal words and phrases that he or her choose to say to be able to write in the piece of content. So main barrier is always time.

How do you solve that barrier? Booking their calendar with a certain time where you get tasks done either let's say the thirty minutes is to ask the right questions and extract them in a transcript, and the other thirty minutes is to write, let's say, for them to review the post with you live. So if you're having trouble for them to actually review the posts that you've created or the drafts or the ideas, then also make sure that everything happens in that call thirty minutes you're gonna do content extraction with the right answers.

The other thirty minutes you're gonna spend Okay, we're gonna go through our Trello board or notion page whatever with the posts we have. Are they approved? What will you change? We're gonna schedule them now, literally on the call.

We're gonna go and we're gonna go to your profile. We're gonna schedule it for eight am, e s T. It's approved, it's out, it's already being posted. That's usually the best way with people, just like CEOs, is literally just getting them on the spot to do the thing.

I love it. That's a very solid advice. So let's continue our blitz. Just to quickly finish the Q and a question from Lalita Rave what content goes on B to B brand pages and what goes from personal accounts of key executives they call.

The what we've done, for example with the workflow backlinko, Samage, Hey reach, all the companies we've worked with is everything that has to do with how I very authoritative personal in your space usually goes on the personal accounts of the CEOs and the team members. The things that can be either more fun, more broad because the problem with brand pages is that they're really hard to grow because nobody really cares about a logo. They care more about a face. So what our mindset has to do is think what can I post on the brand page that is going to make people care about the content by itself and not by the b to like, but by the brand.

If it's a bunch of content about your brand and how your new feature. Unless you're a huge company that people really care about, you can't just be saying like, Okay, this is the new feature we launched, this is what we do, this is the case study of our clients. This is a picture of our team. Like you always have to think that anyone that is scrolling on LinkedIn is thinking what is in it for me?

They don't care about you. That's the main mindset you have to do, both for brand pages and for yourself and your CEO's brand, like what is in it for me? Because I do not care about what you guys do what you do, So everything has to be tied in into what is in it for them and for the brand pages even more because maybe they'll care a little bit about the CEO, the team member because it's something interesting, but they're not going to care at all if a logo is telling them something, So build a strategy around that.

Maybe you can do a play on giving the latest updates in your industry through the brand page so people are gonna care more. Maybe you can do like a funny strategy where it's like funny memes and stuff like that that go more viral. Maybe you do a strategy around name jacking, like if a CEO and a team member's profile is hard to grow because people are always thinking about what is in it for me. The brand page has to have triple that mindset, like we have to give absolute value or entertain them or give them a sil value, something that they will care about because it's just a little logo that no one's really gonna like just because you posted it on the brand page.

I love it. Question from Kerry, how do your research where your ISP is just go to the channels and watch what's yup? Approach? That is probably one of the hardest things to do today.

By the way, if anyone knows a tool that does this, that would be great, because we we've struggled with that as well. The best places we've found is perplexity is really good for research. So Perplexity AI tool LLM, it's the best LM I've found for like actually doing research. Then open claw we're really playing around with open open claw and research.

If someone doesn't know what open claw is, open clause basically this thing a developer randomly created. I have nowhere that is like an AI agent that can live on Telegram or that can live on What's Up. It's kind of creepy. You can literally like message it and like a human and it will.

It's like an employee and it will do things. So the difference with like AI tools like perplexity that's really good for research and open claw is that Perplexity is on the spot. So you ask it, hey, I'm doing research for my ICP. These are my channels.

What are usually the places they look for? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You do like a really good prompt to get maybe as much research as you can on perplexity. The difference with open claw is that you write the prompt, you get the message right away.

Open class stays on the back end, like an employee working doing everything you asked it to do. Twenty four to seven. So for example, you can go on open claw. I'm actually going to create a YouTube video about how to because I've been talking about open club.

You guys are like, how the hell do I actually use it? So I'm gonna do a YouTube video actually explaining how to set it up for research and for all of these things. And basically you chat with it on a telegrammy. You tell them every day at eight am, give me the latest research that you find searching on all these Twitter accounts, on these LinkedIn accounts, going through all the web and during the whole day.

It's doing that work like an employee. Exactly like an employee. You give an employee directions, they do it and then they come with the result. This is how it does.

So probably my answer here is perplexity. There's things like like fabricon and other tools, just a simple Google search, LinkedIn search, YouTube search, like just really going in and doing different channels and watching and looking at who are the people commenting and just doing let's say, more manual work. So the manual work is one way, perplexity is another way. And then something much more advanced is like an open flow.

Perfect and the last one from Bazil we are trying to attract healthcare CMOS head of Growth Marketing Managers, which type of content should We can see that YouTube Vida was gross frameworks podcast and right and CMOS to discuss the industry and then dispense them as shots on linked in, Instagram, YouTube TikTok and then infographics and catasels on LinkedIn. Perhaps of any other advice. I really really like how you're thinking here about inviting them on a podcast to talk about the industry, because there's we don't really do podcasts at this THINGDL because that's just not the channel we manage.

But I do think that podcasts are such a smart strategy to get access to your ICP because, like Basila was saying, it's they they're lurkers. They're not commenting, they're not posting, so you're like getting no information. It's so hard to get information from them because they're just they're just ghosts online. But they'll stop being ghosts once you get them on a podcast and you get to ask them questions, So you could even go and get on a podcast.

Some people do podcasts not only to like get reach or get followers or as like a content marketing play. They do it as like a networking ICP research play, so you get people on your your podcast could get two views, doesn't matter because your strategy isn't doing the podcast to get views. Maybe it does blow up and it does very well within the industry, which is like a plus. But your real, let's say advantage here is that you get to hop on a call with your ICP, mask it as a podcast and ask them all the questions.

You can ask them the questions that you had before, what channels and what platforms you usually consume content on, and you can start asking them to get more subject matter expertise. And the more you ask these ICP profiles what they care about, the more you can create content around that. So I love the podcast idea because you're going to get like insider information from them. You're going to be able to create what they actually care about because you're asking them the questions and getting that information, and then you can easily, as you said, use them on LinkedIn, on Instagram and YouTube, and that could be what we were mentioning before, your source of truth.

So you're finding a place to find the source of truth of the subject matter expertise to easily repurpose into other channels and build a content flywheel. Wow it thank you so much so and I say it kind that is an eight. That was how Basil thinks about it. And Lalita thank you after attending a webinar that delivers real well.

And the truth is that it's not the webinar, it's Ava Live podcast, so we don't have a strict structure here and narrative. Seriously, it's just a nice conversation between me and Deandra and you guys, our community. So happy to hear that you love it, and you can subscribe to our podcast. I will drop the link.

In the chat so you can listen to all the previous episodes. And meanwhile, like I said, Deandra and Sarah will join us on the summit. It will happen just in a few weeks from today, so make sure that you'll be there and you'll see the content Flywheel framework connection. Thank you so much DeAndre for common or much as grass Us or whatever you prefer.

Thank you for having me, and thank. You so much guys for the amazing questions, for the fantastic engagement, and hope to see you all during the summit next week.