Episode 182: B2B ADS masterclass with Shlomo Genchin

Speaker 1: This is the Full Funnel B t B Marketing podcast, brought to you by full Funnel Dot.

Speaker 2: Let's start everyone, and welcome to the new episode of the Final Life. Were climb them to almost two hundred episodes, very close. Who have another speaker from mother Full Funnel, Simla again, who had a fantastic keynote the months ago, and we have rested and you know a lot of questions, so it's kind of.

Speaker 3: The generation of in his keynote, Slama. Thanks a lot for jinuine.

Speaker 4: Amazing Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3: So, guys, as were promised, we are going to dive deep into Sloma's framework. We actually want to run a live example so you can see this framework connection and the quick question. Let us know if you would be interested in seeing how we can apply slamas framework for creating be the ads for your company. If you're interested, just drop your website and we'll pick it up later. And while you guys are typing, I think we can kick it off with just briefly reviewing your your framework. I remember you mentioned you always start with the research, right, maybe I can just navigate us through what data what data points you are collecting right to create the ads.

Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so I think I think the first thing that I'm most interested in. I guess there are two paths, right, Like there is the technical path where I want to know all the features. I want to actually understand the product and you know, to every sort of aspect of it.

Speaker 4: So that's the first part, I would say, And then I have the.

Speaker 1: Human part, right and there I want to learn about different insights, like most importantly, I want to find different relatable situations and you know, memes of quotes, like anything that would show me about you know, anything that would give me some ideas about the experience, about how people use the product, or about the problem they're having about how they work in general. And I think this would be the most interesting part to me because obviously, like understanding the product is important and these are the features that will be promoting. But no, but having those insights and knowing you know, like kind of getting to know the humans that use the product, this is the most interesting part, and that's where things actually get creative and fun.

Speaker 3: I love it, I say, the first admission from epic base, so thank you so much. We'll definitely then start as yours, but let's move forward. So my main question is how do you turn this result ads on? How do they come up as the creators? Right? This is these things might be a little bit tricky.

Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, because I think that in general, like I feel like for years when it comes to creative ads in the creative industry, I feel like people have tried to make, you know, to turn this into something that is even like sort of mystical or something that or something that you.

Speaker 4: Can't really explain or something like that.

Speaker 1: But in reality, it's way simpler than people think, right, like create creativity and creative ads, It's something that you can basically break down, you can reverse engineer it, and you can see that eventually if you look like at the thousand eights, you will notice that the same techniques and patterns repeat again and again, and here are some of the most basic ones. So I think, like, you know, we can show that live on our first example, or or I can just explain that, but I think it would be more interesting if we kind of think think.

Speaker 4: About it together and and and brain start through it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Cool, So let's start with epic base, all right, So I just flicked on the link. I have no idea what it is if you want to share my screen and then and then we can see.

Speaker 3: That or yeah, I think that's the best. Yeah, that's.

Speaker 4: Amazing.

Speaker 1: So let me see that it actually works for us. Okay, I feel like, yes, amazing here is Okay, so an I native operating system for food service, right, so or ready we have a product or do we have a product with some visual potential?

Speaker 4: Right?

Speaker 1: Because we have food and food is already interesting and it's something that people want to see.

Speaker 4: And now let's see what's happening here.

Speaker 1: So replace bread its and these connect tools and disconnected tools with a single source of truth for multi side hospitality.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 1: So basically there is a more efficient system here. Right, I'm just turning it as we go. I've ever seen that side before. But basically, instead of like using a bunch of different tools and instead of using spreadsheets, we want to see uh yeah, we want.

Speaker 4: To have it all on one platform. Cool.

Speaker 1: So that's so like this this this is already enough for me. I'm not gonna go through all the features now, but I think like this is already very interesting, right, and I can see that there are different things here.

Speaker 4: As well, like some super simple features like like.

Speaker 1: Recipe management right, menu engineering, inventory management right? And now and now that I know what the product does, I sort of want to like, I sort of want to think I want to start with the first technique.

Speaker 4: That I would use, which is world without right.

Speaker 1: And that's the technique I also showed at at at the conference. And this is a very simple technique where we're trying to think what is the worst thing that can happen if people don't have.

Speaker 4: The product right?

Speaker 1: Because obviously, you know, the most basic thing that would happen is that they would just use spreadsheets.

Speaker 4: Right, It's not a big deal.

Speaker 1: But we want but for for the you know, for the sake of advertising and for the sake of storytelling, we want to exaggerate it, and we want to think what can actually go wrong?

Speaker 4: Right?

Speaker 1: And then we're trying to think, like what can go wrong in a recipe?

Speaker 4: What can go wrong on the menu? What can go.

Speaker 1: Wrong if people are not using the product? So let's let's think together, right, maybe there would be something, you know, they would put something completely horrible.

Speaker 4: And wrong on the menu.

Speaker 1: Maybe they would you know, put something wrong in the food or on the recipe because they mix too spreadsheets between like two restaurants I don't know, one is vegan and one is just.

Speaker 4: Like a pure barbecue restaurant.

Speaker 1: So I think, like there's a lot of interesting things that can have that can happen here. And this is already a good base for our story, right, because in any kind of story, we want to have some sort of conflict. We want to have something that is you know, that is happening, something that is so yeah, some sort of some.

Speaker 4: Sort of clash that is happening.

Speaker 1: And I think that you know, mix up in a recipe like that is sort of a yeah, is a really good starting point. But this is I'm just saying that like based on nothing, because like I don't really know the users and I don't really know their use cases. But like once we can dive into that and maybe and caick and tell us, like in the chat a little bit more about like.

Speaker 4: Like am I am I in the right direction?

Speaker 1: Like would you say that these are things that your you know, your your users are dealing with if they're not using your product?

Speaker 4: But the good says yeah, now she now she has now she has to dive very fast.

Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, she's saying yes first of all, and uh yeah, okay, And I think and I think that's a good starting point.

Speaker 4: So like what what I would do now?

Speaker 1: I would go to I would like I would go either either like to Google doc or something like that, or like to some sort of figmaphile, and I would just start thinking about different things like that that can happen, right, Like, like, let's first of all think about this like worst case scenario, like what is this thing that can really go wrong and can Maybe you could help us with thinking like what, like what would be one of those one of those situations where you know, where something goes completely wrong with a recipe, or where they simply don't have, like I don't know, a sushi restaurant. They don't manage their inventory, so they don't have any fish or any food, and you know, and once we have something like that, then we could maybe start you know, maybe we can start kind of zooming in and thinking about you know, she Anger's saying high costs. Okay, that's that's that's also interesting. Let's think of even more like specific situations. Let's think let's think of like, you know, what would happen if they have my cause? Right, what can happen if if things go wrong.

Speaker 3: I think, yeah, just one to that five cents here. I think one of the things here might be bad reviews because of the quality inconsistency. Let's say I'm just going to this restaurant in one city. I love the food, I love the atmosphere, right, and then I go to the same restaurant in another city, in another part of the city, and then the food is is tasted completely differently, right, and then I just give them one start because like whatever, right, the food was terrible, and now my expectations were not mad. And so this is the reputational problem.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 3: So one of the.

Speaker 1: Things exactly I love that you see, and like the good thing about it is that is that, like this point that Andrew just gave us, it's like it's very relatable, right, because it's something that we can all relate to. We all like ate at different with chains, and we could see that actually, like the food is very different in each branch, in each branch sometimes when you know when they don't have like good quality and when they don't use.

Speaker 4: An epic base.

Speaker 1: So I think that's so I think that that this is already a very good insight.

Speaker 4: And when I'm riding my insights, I'm always starting.

Speaker 1: Them with that moment when, right, because then I know that it's actually relatable. Because like, if you think about it, that's how this tough medience, you know, when they put when they sort of explain, you know, when they sort of deliver a joke, right, they often started with that moment when because they kind of set us up for something relatable, for something that we all know.

Speaker 4: So it's always good to ride that way. So for example, that moment when.

Speaker 1: You go to a restaurant that you already already know in a already know but in a different uh different city, and it sucks, right, So like that's that's that would be like this.

Speaker 4: This relatable moment that we're building up.

Speaker 1: Okay, so now once we have that, we want to come up with different like we want to come up with different visuals or situations around that. So we want to you know, we sort of wanted to steal that, right because when we're making ads, for example, if we're making a static ad, we can just put this entire story inside of that.

Speaker 4: We want to like simplify it very much so people can get it the first second.

Speaker 1: And now we're trying to think like, you know, like we could we could try to think about you.

Speaker 4: Know how sometimes.

Speaker 1: There are those like names with like different with like you know food, you know, like how it advertised, like how it being how it is being advertised.

Speaker 4: And then how it is actually in reality.

Speaker 1: So like so like food expectations versus reality.

Speaker 4: I'll just google that and I'll just look.

Speaker 1: I'll just look for an image like that, right, so so we can just we can just get.

Speaker 4: Here and see how those images look.

Speaker 1: Right, So we have those like like weird images that yeah, sometimes it looks great and sometimes it looks awful. So then we could take this for example, right, like we could make this big tree justice just as an example that we could put it in another window and just like right, you know, and just like write something like you know, like new like New York City like branch for example. Uh, and then and then like I don't know, like la branch. Right, So like we have we have two cities where in one it looks like this and why it looks like this, right, and then like keep your food or like menu, Yeah, I guess food consistent across like yeah, across the entire chain, right, like entire food chain.

Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm just like I'm just coming up with this on the spot.

Speaker 1: But this like this is already waiting and you can't see my favor right now. Sorry, So you can see it right now. So I already put it here, right and you can see that we already have some start of an ad here. Now I'm just gonna copy copy the logo, put it right here, and we already have something interesting here, right, So like we already have like the best case scenario what we have here, and we have the worst case scenario what happened if you don't use epic base. So of course, like we still need to work on the headline, and these things take a lot of time, because like I would definitely like maybe go to like maybe go to Claude now, and I would just like probably give Claude this ad as it is.

Speaker 4: Right. You're gonna see the stab in a.

Speaker 1: Second, so I'll just put it as it is, and I would just ask it, like, can you generate ten more variations of this headline? Make sure you know, uh yeah, use like different leader yeah, leader devices, Okay, And then and then immediately I'm going to get a few more variations for this headline. So of course it's something that that you know that that we're going to play around with. Yeah, but like you know immediately like yeah, I know. It says like, uh, one kitchen creates all right, the other creates evidence or same recipes, ingredients, very different plates. Your recipes are begging for consistency across every.

Speaker 4: Location, right, sounds a little bit like ay I.

Speaker 1: Or like one branch shouldn't serve French tose, Like what if one branch serves French toes.

Speaker 4: The other one shouldn't serve disappointment?

Speaker 1: Right, So, like different stuff like this that that we could play around with to get to get that headline. So I think from these, my favorite one, Uh yeah, I think my favorite one is probably this one. Maybe I don't know, like this this could be a good option, so I can already change it to this one. And yeah, you know if if one branch, if one branch gets a standing ovasion, uh, but the other one, but the other one gets a health inspector, it's time to try epic base, right. So so so this is so I would say this is the most like basic and quick version of the add that we could create. Obviously, we need to work on the layout. Obviously we need to make it better, but I think like this is a really like the process live on how it should work. Uh So, yeah, what do you guys think? Does that does that match a little bit of what you do or or does that like with that direction work at all? I mean, of course we need to we need to polish that, but overall, I think it's already an interesting reaction that we don't really used. You know, we don't really see a lot of that stuff in B two B for sure.

Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, I totally agree. And I have a lot of the creative process over here that you share it. So if I can just quickly look at the use case that Anca shared that it's all about the problem that they have a system that doesn't match what's on the shelf, and they over order the ingredients, they lose margin, et cetera. So like there are let's say B two B use case, not the reputational one. How would you think about this one?

Speaker 4: Got it? So?

Speaker 1: So same thing right, like the same thing we can like, I think this one is even easier, probably because we just need to think about the situation where we have too much or where they're ordering too much uh.

Speaker 4: Yeah, inventory for example.

Speaker 1: They're ordering too much food and then yeah, just like you said, like over ordering sporilage and all of that stuff. Right, So this is this is already like some very interesting visuals that we can go around and we can yeah and immediately, like.

Speaker 4: I would probably go to I'll just go to.

Speaker 1: Google and you know, and I would already look because I think this is such a such a strong visual hook. Right, So spoiled like like spoiled food. I know a lot of spoiled food, right, and let's see, Yeah, let's.

Speaker 4: See what and let's see what I get, right.

Speaker 1: Yeah, or in the rest or in the restaurant maybe, But like I feel like this is already an interesting yeah, so sort of an interesting hook.

Speaker 4: And and I think that, you know, like maybe we.

Speaker 1: Could show a little before and after, right, because like side by side is always an interesting way to sort of compare things and show a message very quickly. So maybe we could like show fridge with a lot of spoiled food.

Speaker 4: Right, So, like I don't know, like I.

Speaker 1: Think we need to we need to find the right images for that, but like we need to find an image, yeah, like maybe it's something like this, right, So yeah, so like maybe we could show something like.

Speaker 4: And I guess this is a paint.

Speaker 1: Like everyone who like ordered too much food like probably has seen like not not not anything that bad, but but you know, like something something.

Speaker 4: Similar to that.

Speaker 1: So like basically, and then we want you know, uh bean, uh empty fridge maybe and then yeah, you know, we want we want to show that we want probably wait, I'm going to show show the figment apps. So now we have this this one and we have this one, we have this comparison. Maybe on the right one we should show a fridge with a lot of nice food, like maybe that could be another option, But overall, I would write something like, you know, just something simple like.

Speaker 4: Like before.

Speaker 1: Before epic base and after base, right, So then I already have like those those two sides. And then like in the caption, right, I could write something like prevent over what did you call it? Yeah, like over ordering and spoiled right. So that's yeah, so like that's that's already uh sorry, so that's already a good you know, that's that's alreadys like some interesting visual that would grab people's attention. Maybe we could just focus on the before right, like rather than before and after we could just show it before. We could just show that and just uh, you know, like if we make those pictures like super artistic. Right, So like right now it looks pretty ugly and disgusting. But like if for example, we open we open Gemini real quick.

Speaker 4: Uh, and you know we kind of we kind of.

Speaker 1: This, and I'm going to gym and I real quick just to kind of work on this image.

Speaker 4: And I'll ask it, like, turn.

Speaker 1: This into an artistic still art photography image. Make the contrast striking and the colors strong and vivid. Right, So like maybe we could turn this into some sort of like art and make it like look a little even like a little bit more striking and interesting. So then so then we could get you know, so then the visual could be even better.

Speaker 4: I'll go back while it's generating.

Speaker 1: I'll go back to two figma, just like to work on the headline meanwhile, So I could write just something much simpler, right, just use a simple question headline like like overordering, write something like this. I'll make it maybe a little bit smaller it in the.

Speaker 3: Middle, even like Samson, even like your margin spoils the same way as your foot.

Speaker 4: Exactly. So now we're getting there. Exactly.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so your margins, it's spoiled, like your food something like this, Like we still need to think about it. Yeah, image, Yeah, the image is still generating, so we're gonna get that in a second.

Speaker 4: But I think like immediately we.

Speaker 1: Get h yeah, we get something that is a little bit more interesting and at first, like it's always easier to create ads on the negative side. So yeah, so like on on the positive side, we could also try to create something like with with beautiful you know, like with just like beautiful food photography or something that's that's in the fridge.

Speaker 4: Okay, so let's see.

Speaker 1: This is the image that I got that I got from Gemini. I think it's not perfect. I think like it's not it's not we wonder, but I think like it's already a little bit more artistic and we can already like paste it right here instead of the previous one just the second let's go here.

Speaker 4: And okay, okay, yeah, and already I think it looks a little bit more, a little.

Speaker 1: Bit more interesting, like a little bit more colorful and something that would grab your attention and just like not something that you.

Speaker 4: Would expect to see in an ad.

Speaker 1: So of course, like I'm not saying that like this would one hundred percent work, or like this is the perfect strategy, or this is align with the brain guidelines. Like when we're talking creative, that's the kind of stuff, Like that's the kind of process we want to go through, right, And just like and you saw how it also works together as a team, right, because I came up with this one andre at this headline, and then little by little we want to fill the cannabis with like dozens of those different idea is and then of course, like most.

Speaker 4: Of them would go like would be you know, we'd go to.

Speaker 1: Waste like this food, but some of them, like let's say five to ten would be actually good.

Speaker 4: So like if we sit like that for like.

Speaker 1: An hour or two, then you know, after after a while, after like trying all those different directions, maybe we're going to try to spoiled food. Maybe we're going to try the beautiful fridge. Like there's so many options, We're going to get something that looks uh yeah, that that that is actually created about like creative and alignment our strategy and and potentially would actually work.

Speaker 4: I see that.

Speaker 1: Alla just ask ask the question about uh copy is yeah, So so like, honestly, it really depends on you and and how you want to approach it. If if you want, you can first buy the you can first buy the image, the stock image, or find a free stock image. But you could just generate that af from scratch in Gemini, or.

Speaker 4: You could just take an image and just.

Speaker 1: Change it so much that would it would be different. It really depends, I guess, on how you want to approach that. Like some people are more sensitive to that. Some people just you know, take stock photos and just change them. So I think, like it's really up to you. I always try to support creators of images. And when I work with clients and I'm using a stock photo, even if I change it later with a I I I tend to buy it.

Speaker 4: But it really depends.

Speaker 1: I mean, if I find just a random photo in like Pinterest or something, then I would change it so much that it would just it just won't be recognizable anymore.

Speaker 4: And then yeah, and that and that's you know, the world we're living in right now.

Speaker 1: It's I think it's a big question about copyright and AI and how it works.

Speaker 4: But I think, like, uh, yeah, like I don't have a really good answer to that.

Speaker 3: I love it. I said a question from Chris what the sort of image that messages? Also what can be to be advertised? And I think Connas took epic base and this is the bit to bit product. Maybe it wasn't that clear, but that sell them to restaurants. So it's the pure B two B sass. I would maybe just add five cents to this question what I have heard from a few people, and you can share your such. I will be just citing one of the concerns that I have heard. So here's the first one. Our buyers a conservative. The procurement committee includes CFOs who haven't changed the system in indicat If I run a fun ad or let's say creative ad to these people are risk looking like I don't understand the world. So where's the line between creative that captures the attention and creative that loses credibility with enterprise buyer? So that's the first part, yeah, and the second the second as a follow up, Right, how do you get an internal buying for let's say this creative specially when your leadership and sales team, if they have strong opinions about what should professional creative, how should professional creative look? Like right, yeah, that's the second part.

Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So I think I think these are great questions, and I would say that for the first part first of all.

Speaker 4: Yeah, like that's I think I think that's.

Speaker 1: Why we're having this conversation because obviously in B two C, nobody's doubting that ads should be creative, right, And and it wasn't like that always before, before the ninety fifties, ads were boring in B two C as well. If you if you look at some all that, you'll see that it's all pretty much like what we have in B two B right now, right, because people thought, you know, like if somebody's buying a car, that's a very serious purchase, right, you don't want to make fun of that. You want to show the engine, you want to you know, run a very serious add You don't want to do something like too crazy because they're buying a car. But then came, but then came a very interesting person called Bill Behrenbach, and he changed that, and he decided that he's going to start running creative ads for Volkswagen.

Speaker 4: And if you know those like classic ads.

Speaker 1: Like Lemon and things small and all of those, like old vintage ads, you can look them up. So these things actually changed advertising because people silently started loving that, right they thought, like, maybe we shouldn't just talk about, like just about the features all the time. Maybe we can you know, highlight the features, but also use interesting visual hooks, tell interesting stories, and also have some fun. But and you know, essentially B to B is the same. You know, if somebody can make a fun app when they're selling you know, one hundred thousand dollars car, then you can also.

Speaker 4: Make fun when you're selling expensive software.

Speaker 1: The biggest trick here is that you have to actually understand their world, right like joking. If you just like, you know, clowning around, then of course they're not you know, they're not going to take you seriously. But if you show them that you actually know your audience so well that you know that you actually can make ads that are not just like not just attention grabbing, not just like creative for no reason, but actually you know, relatable to them, something that they actually a pain point that they actually know, then they would actually appreciate that even more. And that's what I do for a living, Like that's that's the only thing I'm doing. Like I can show you I can show you like different send you later different.

Speaker 4: Examples of ads that I'm doing. That's also like what I.

Speaker 1: Showed at the conference. And each time we see that, we get better results, you know, more leads, better conversions. When we're doing something that is interesting, of course, like you always have to play around with Like you know, you don't want to be offensive, you don't want to you know, you want to find a way that is actually both fine for you and for them, Like you don't want it just to be a joke for you and then for them like nothing, but if it's actually relatable and interesting, because if you think about it, like when they see it on the toilet, they also scroll memes, they also watch TikTok.

Speaker 4: They do the same things that.

Speaker 1: All the people do, even if you know they're VP something at a company. So even then, like it doesn't matter, like you still want to make it fun and creative, and but you know, obviously really depends on the audience and and really requires like even more research than the usual land.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought likely. I was just thinking about some of our ABM campaigns and even for just targeting a list of accounts time to time, I use them. For example, they're all in a similar way to yours. Well, we just explaining to manufacturers, to European manufacturers that allocated outside of Eurozone, how the and how I export them a lot, right, how the currents reflectations I kill and the margins. And that was a kind of image of roller coaster. And we use this for three months and then for like ever engaged account received a direct mail parcel. Well, we also bought a Lego Lego roller cock roller coaster, explaining the same story, right, that you shouldn't be kind of your margin, shouldn't be relliant on roller coaster every single day. And I mean that was I can't say that like literally everybody replied to us, But those who replied, they had a lot of fun and they they were smiling. They remembered this during the discovery calls, et cetera. So I can't say that the conservative audience doesn't like, let's say, the creativity here. So I think we can look at the second example from all her, all her shared at another company. If you can look, if you can find it in the chat atbis dot com, I feel want I can just yeah.

Speaker 1: I see that amazing, So yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 4: So I'm sharing the screen.

Speaker 1: You got to see that in the second Okay, cool, So expert development, expert delivery, and your tech powerhouse. So let's understand what else is happening here, because I still don't completely.

Speaker 4: Know what they do.

Speaker 1: So Fortune five hundred companies trust us to support existing technical solution and develop new ones to optimize costs at every stage. So basically I will also look at this expert delivery, your tech powerhouse.

Speaker 4: So I'd love to understand a little bit better.

Speaker 1: So that's a service business, right, Okay, service business, and they do just different software engineering stuff right correct? Okay, amazing, So like just different software engineering, yeah, software engineering as a service. Okay, So now it's clear we can see like.

Speaker 4: The different industries. Okay.

Speaker 1: And so that's so this is already this is already an interesting sort of thing that's happening here.

Speaker 4: So basically I would say that, you know, like like I.

Speaker 1: Think that this time we can just start with the promise, right, Like, what would be the main thing their airbis are promising to their customers? I guess that, you know, unlike anything else, they're promising that they would have like you know, person personalized.

Speaker 4: Or like maybe they spoke software engineering, right.

Speaker 1: Services, Right, so like you actually you know, you actually match them to the client, right, You're not just like you know, you're not just handing them software that they can use, and just like you know on board themselves, you actually making something that would fit them perfectly. So that's okay. So I think like that's already good sort of beginning to start with this promise, right, so rather than like starting with insights and just like you know, thinking about different situations. Well, first of all, we first of all just want to understand what is our promise? Like what do we want to advertise here?

Speaker 4: All? Would you say that? Would you say that like that's on point?

Speaker 1: Like would you say that this is something that you actually promise to customers? I make it a little bit clearer like this, what do you think I'm gonna write in the chat as well? Okay, so I don't see an answer from all over now, but I'll take that.

Speaker 4: I'll take that for now as a yes. Okay, So let's think what is yes? Amazing? Thank you all.

Speaker 1: I didn't leave you a choice, but let's think about Yeah, so now that we have this simple promise, let's think what's the opposite of this promise, Like if we have if this is the promise, then what is the problem? Right, So the problem is that I guess that companies get software that doesn't fit fit their needs.

Speaker 4: Okay, So here we.

Speaker 1: Have quite a different situation, right, And this is something that happens in B to B and software a lot because if you if like in the previous case, right, we had it was much easier to work with visuals because we had this whole like food universe.

Speaker 4: That we could work with.

Speaker 1: So no matter how much we would you know, go around it, eventually we would find something, you know, some sort of image or visual that would work for for us because it's for restaurants. So that's so that's in a way simpler. But here we can't really show like what does it matter? Like you know, what can we show? Like how can we show personalized engineering?

Speaker 4: Certain? This is right, Like even if you.

Speaker 1: Look on the website that we have like a lot of simple visuals like this or like, you know, stuff that we would usually see from software companies, because we can't actually actually show the software that easily.

Speaker 4: And that's a problem we're roll facing in B to B. So what's the.

Speaker 1: Solution and this is something that I really like to do, and this is called analogy ads.

Speaker 4: Right, So the solution is to find an.

Speaker 1: Analogy to that situation, right, to find something that is quite similar to that from from another like universe or space, and use that as our visual hook. So for example, let's think what else, like you know what else? M Like, somebody you know, like may need that you know that doesn't fit their exact needs right where they need something to be personalized or bespoke, and they get something that is just one size for everyone, Like I can immediately think of close, right, So so like I would, I'll go to Google and I would write something like you know, bet feeding.

Speaker 4: Clothes, right like okay.

Speaker 1: And then immediately I already get like this this interesting visual universe. So yeah, so like immediately I can get something like this, right, I think this is really an interesting visual. Of course, like we can make it even better, but I think this is already a good a good start. So I go back here and I'll make a new frame. I'll paste this image right here. Okay, I guess I would also like fill this background with something else just for a now, Like later, of course, we need to make it look more beautiful, but for now we can have it just like this.

Speaker 4: Then we could write something like.

Speaker 1: Okay, and then we can write something like, you know, if like I don't know, you're if you're software software.

Speaker 4: Is the right fit for for you? Call uh erabis.

Speaker 1: Right, So this is our This is like the this is like the first most basic version of our messaging.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 1: So, so we have the image, but the line is not very good. Right, the line is kind of boring. It's like it's like it's like very straightforward. So I want to make it a little bit more interesting. And now what I would do here is I would use a copywriting technique that I called flipped phrases. So flip phrases is when I take a familiar idiom or phrase and I flip it and it's just like I take it as it is, but I change just one word, so you know, the phrase kind of seems familiar, but then you get a twist. So let me show you how it works. So, for example, we could take a phrase like one size fits all right, this is the original phrase, and then we could change it to one size doesn't fit all right, try our personalized.

Speaker 4: Software the services.

Speaker 1: Right. So this is so like this, this could already be something like we probably want to make this one bigger so people can see that right away, and then make this one a little bit smaller. Of course, we need to play around with the our direction heres to make it all work out, but overall, this is already much better. Right, So we went from this to this to this than this, and finally we have this. This is our very like basic digital sketch that we have. But already we have an image, we have a headline, and now we just need to work with a real designer or spend a little bit more time with AI to kind of put this all together into a nice layout. But you can see how quickly when you use analogies, how quickly you can get a new visual idea for something that is seemingly like it's very hard to show something like software services. So that's why, like, finding an analogy like that makes it way easier to come up with something that would you know, actually grab you know, attract people's attention. So this is yeah, so this is just just one example, but there are plenty of other analogies that we could use for that as well.

Speaker 3: Love it, thank you so much, and I see some nice feedback in the chat already. That's it'sn't it. It's just a simple framework rightly, this is not the precise copy that we go into use, but this is the logic behind how you can think about and obviously you can dive deeper into use cases or jobs to be done of specific but persona and then just depending on your let's say targeting and campaign that you are running, right, you can adjust that message and visuals are creative to this. But this is the kind of the mental model how to to think about that creation. So thank you so much for Loma. We have a couple of questions, so I will just copy them to the chat and we can cover them. So the first one from Emmy, how can you use fun ads on Google? Way you don't have full control over which headline and description serves with the creative and the ads get penalized for not having enough variety. So that's the first one.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think I think for Google ads and that's and that's actually something.

Speaker 4: That's uh that is.

Speaker 1: Super interesting for me personally right now because that is something I'm working on right now because I think that I think that uh, you know, like Google ads are very copywriting driven right, like there is so like it's it's it's all about copy And you know, a lot of people say that copywriting is dead and that I can just do it better than anyone now, But I think that there's a lot of like you can see a lot of brands that are doing super cool things with copywriting right now, and Google Ads is one of them. Like, there are so many things we can try. So I think that you know, the first thing we need to remember is that just like we did with visuals, right, just like, just like we did right now with analogies, for example, we could do the same thing with just copy, right, we don't necessarily just need we don't necessarily just need the visual We could just use analogies when we write copy. We could just use this phrase like like flip phrase like one size doesn't fit all.

Speaker 4: We could use that as part of Google AD.

Speaker 1: So there are a lot of options here, and if you think about it, there are so many different things that you can say. So when it comes to copywriting, you can use analogies, you can use right like you make things rhyme, you can use alliteration right when you start the same the same like when you say, started every word with the same sound, right.

Speaker 4: So for example, if we take.

Speaker 1: I don't know, like proton email right, so we can write some something like like you know, like swiss swift and safe right, something like that, So immediately the headline becomes way more interesting. So we could take a lot of different things like that and make them work if.

Speaker 4: We just use different copywriting techniques.

Speaker 1: And a few examples that I could give for different copywriting techniques is one flipped.

Speaker 4: Phrases, the one that I already showed you.

Speaker 1: I think I can take you a little bit just like because we're doing it more of a like session where we're hanging out and not like a proper presentation, So like I could take you a little bit behind the scenes into yeah, into a tool that I'm a new tool that I'm building right now for copywriting.

Speaker 4: So I'm not going to show you the tool itself, but I'm going to.

Speaker 1: Show you like my thing the library with you know, with different ads that I'm that I'm working. You know that I'm collecting like sort of my sort of my like all my categories and and my and my you know, swive file with a lot of ads. So you can see that there are a lot of different techniques that you can use. So for example, you know, even even if we're just going for this idea of like different point of view. Right, so here's here's one really good headline from Columbia, right, this jacket is a climate.

Speaker 4: Denial, right.

Speaker 1: Or you could uh check out this one from Corona. Right, So some cats have all the fun. So basically we're giving human traits to our product or its enemy, right. Or we could look at different you know, we could find different observations like nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, or they don't write songs about volvos. So basically, copy writing is a whole new universe that you know, that you can explore when you're doing Google ads and and yeah, and definitely like we could do another talk just about that. I can share this this overview of all of these ads because this is for a new product that I'm building. But once it's going to be ready, then I'll happily share that, like on my LinkedIn or wherever you or if you want to check out my newsletter, then then you can also like sign up sign up there, so like I can happily share that as well.

Speaker 4: Once it's ready right now, It's just still a work in progress.

Speaker 1: I didn't even plan to share it today, but you guys asked about Google that, So like, I think, I think this this was a good opportunity to kind of show you what what I'm working on, because I think this is a huge opportunity right now doing some creative copy. But yeah, like I think I'm gonna stop here because like I'm not actually giving you actionable dips without without real examples.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it. I also I also remember just one of the things that you shared it is the kind of making fun of of the trends or the hype that we're sorting right now. It just immediately reminded me about the campaign that fiver ran Ai just took my job and then just a small copy to the next level, right, so all because like we're hearing from ever a single corner of that, yeah, is just taking all of our jobs. So this is this is kind of another story, right how to like I think, just picking up something that is over hyped today and just play on it. It's it's another way to kind of use attention travers. One follow up question from Eleana should they be creatives look differently from regular BIT to b ads.

Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and just I'm definitely going to answer that in one second, just like before we move on, just just the technique that you just mentioned where we twist you know, something that kind of know from pop culture or from or from culture in general.

Speaker 4: So like could work the same way for arabs as well. Right, So like we could write something and I'm writing in the comments now.

Speaker 1: Like software engineering is dead, right, but it's not just dead, it's like dead, right, Like, so just just another option that this is the line I wrote for another company, But like this is a quick example of how something that we used to hearing all the time, right, software engineering is is dead or something like that. So it's dead, simple, right, So we take some phrase just like you describe to injury, and we add a little twist to it to make it more interesting. So just a lot of copyrighting technique that is optional. Let's move on yet to the second question. So should ab M creatives look different differently from regular B to b ads? So I think ABM ads in general it's one of the coolest opportunities we have in B two B because we have accounts that have so much money, right, Like Nike can't really do that, right because because you know, it's not worth it to target just one person or just one company when your product costs like one hundred dollars or less. But when it costs two hundred thousand dollars, then it's worth it.

Speaker 4: And this is one of the coolest opportunities that we have.

Speaker 1: So I think they shouldn't look in general, like different from regular B to B ads, right, we still want to have the same sorts of adsets. We still want to have like testimonial ads, like more creative and edgy ads, you know, like highlighting different.

Speaker 4: Features showing the product.

Speaker 1: Like, we still want to have very rich and diverse adsets, but at the same time, we want to make them even more personalized. So we want to you know, make sure that it actually solves their problems, their use cases.

Speaker 4: And the more budget and the.

Speaker 1: More time we have to spend on those accounts, the more interesting we can make it. Because think about it, if in the beginning we started with the simple thing of just coming up with ideas and insights for different industries and for different uh you know, job titles, then think how specific your you know, your ads could be and your insights can be and how relatable it can be if you think of one person or just like one company or one team at one company.

Speaker 4: So things can get way more interesting because.

Speaker 1: You know, you can actually know you know, I don't know if they're based in a specific city.

Speaker 4: You can make the visuals based on that or the references or the headlines. So there are a lot of options here. But I think that yeah, they should look.

Speaker 1: Different in general, but you have way more opportunity to be creative here.

Speaker 3: I love that. Actually, it just reminded me about one of the final ABM campaigns. While we use the advertisement a couple of few hours ago, what we have done, I'll just quickly show my screen and yeah, obviously I thought, I understand that not every company is going to do this, but we have a target and a big tech enterprise company. So we wanted to book a meeting with one of the strategic stakeholders because we had some engagement with let's say, potential champions and potential power users. But the sales team was trying to get to one of the strategics to takeholders who was exactly cituo at that company, and so we created one of like similar banners, not exactly like this one, but it was most wanted, you know, and just the most like I forgot the exact copy, but it was something like, if you guys are meeting with him, please make an intro to us, right, and then just the log of that company and our company. So, I mean it's not always the case, obviously, not an every single case you can use it. But in that case it worked amazingly. So yes, sometimes, Yeah, a bit of creativity it could be, could be adding a lot of value. Obviously you need to know when when to apply it.

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something we can we can only be to b So I think that's that's that's a big advantage for us.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So for me, whenever I'm hearing that our space creativity doesn't work or whatever, I just think that it's often and I know, an argument or maybe an expression of a concern to be different. Right, So we're afraid to be different because nobody is doing this, and so what people would say, what our competitors would say, what our buyers would say. But the truth is that if I'm not standing out, then we're losing our print reputation in the long term, right, because otherwise we just become yet another vendor. So that's kind of the moral of the stutum. So we have a few more questions from our communities and guys feel free to to post questions in the chats. Yes, the recorded and will be aware well. So we usually publish it on our YouTube channel and Spotify. So I drop the link to Spotify and the chat. You can subscribe and would appreciate a lot if you can give us, if you can rate us there. We have a question from Mariam what are the most common mistakes when friends try to be fun and bitter?

Speaker 1: B M Well, I think that the most common mistakes are trying to be funny but not being funny, right, So I think.

Speaker 4: I think that's the that's the biggest problem.

Speaker 1: It's funny, it's not something like that you can definitely like that. You can necessarily teach that, you can try diven techniques, but I feel like it's also something that you need to have a feel for. But essentially I think that you know, if we're if you managed to be relatable, if you manage to actually, you know, touch your real pain point, and then you would always be in one way or another like at least a little bit fun, and then I think is just important to sort of lean into what we do well, right, Like we shouldn't try, like the biggest mistake I think is to try to do something that others are doing necessarily, because if one company is very good at funny skits and another company is very good at doing like fun billboards with copy, then I think, like, you know, we should just see, you know, what are the resources that we have, who do we have on the team, and what are they good at? You know, like if we have someone who's a great actor, maybe we could shoot some videos, or if we know someone who's working with great actors, Like depends on the size of the company, of course, if you have more budget that you can also outsource that kind of stuff. But you know, if we know that we have a bunch of great copy writors, then we should focus on doing that. If we know that our humor is usually like more intelligent and sort of sell, let's do that and not try to be you know, like just just too crazy. I think it's very important to just like, you know, just like in real life when we're when we have our brand, try to focus on the things that the brand is actually good at. And I see that all is also asking where's the line between good humor and not so good? So I think this is the exact reason why AI can't replace us yet, right, because if there would be something that we could actually like measure very easily, then I think AI would just be able to do that way better than us.

Speaker 4: But that's that's sort of the human the human connection and perspective that we have.

Speaker 1: So like we know our to our eat audience, we speak to them, we hang out with them, and then and then we just know what would make them laugh or would even make them smile in a real conversation. And that's the kind of stuff that we want to run in our ads because eventually advertising is just a conversation, just on a large scale because we can't speak to each person individually. So whatever would work in a real conversation, whatever you wouldn't write or say in a real conversation over lunch, we shouldn't use in our ads.

Speaker 4: So I think this should be like.

Speaker 1: Sort of the guiding you know that, Yeah, yeah, I guess like the mean guideline here.

Speaker 4: But then other than that, it's a matter of feeling.

Speaker 1: It's a matter of testing different things carefully and seeing what will works best.

Speaker 3: I also figure it out one maybe way, how can you identify what humor will resonate? And basically whenever you have client meetings? Right, Obviously I'm not talking about the discovery, cause maybe sometimes it happens and the discovery calls as well if you know the prospect, right. But quite often, when you're working with a client for some time, you have some level of relationships, so you don't just have a formal conversation with them. You can see the jokes they're making, or maybe the jokes that they're making internally, right, not necessarily addressed to you or when you are in the room. So quite often you can see the things that they are talking about that basically resonate with them. And that could an idea. What kind of level of humor if I call it that way, right, a's accept about at this company. So that could be another idea. So let's pick up the last question from help at the first, But so what the ads are currently performing best and why for consultants for example?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like I don't think I'll be able to answer that question specifically because it's not like it's not like I don't really like to look at ats as like you know, side by side of ads are performing best, or like red colored ads are performing best.

Speaker 4: I think like the ads that are performing best.

Speaker 1: Just like Andrew said, it's it's ads that resonate with the way our users actually speak. And I think that another way to kind of, you know, to kind of dive into the humor of retarget audience is also something that I always do when I start researching. I always write, you know, my industry and memes. So if I'm working on an HR software would right HR memes. If I'm working on software engineering product, I would write, you know, software engineering memes, and I would kind of dive into this universe of their memes either on like on Google or TikTok or anywhere else, and I would see what kind of memes they're making for themselves when it's not even about marketing, and I would see what kind of humor is working, and maybe I could take borrow or something from there and use that to create an AD.

Speaker 4: So this is usually the approach that I take there.

Speaker 1: And I think that in terms of what ads are working best, I would say that for every industry is different, but I think that there is one If there is one thing that unifies everything that's working, at least for me and my clients right now, is stop that you know, you can see that there.

Speaker 4: Is actual effort behind it.

Speaker 1: Right because AI made it so easy to generate a bunch of slop, then you know that when we do something that you can actually see that it's either like well produced or you know, headline that we actually thought of, or a visual that is actually interesting. And by the way, when I say fun fun, it doesn't mean funny. It doesn't mean like comedy hilarious. It's just like something that is like slightly entertaining, something that is slightly unusual like that.

Speaker 4: That's it.

Speaker 1: So I think like stuff that you can actually see that there is craft behind it, and there is thought, and there is you know who created it, like the person created the actually actually cared about it. I think that's the kind of thing that works best. I know, Like that's not the perfect like analytical answer of like the specific formats and so on, but that's that's the reality, right because there's so many formats. There's video, there's static ads, and from what I've seen, when we have one message that works, it would work across all formats.

Speaker 4: No matter what. So it's not like video ads work better than static ads.

Speaker 1: No, it's like, if you have one message that works, you would work in both of those formats and as a gift as well and anything else as a Google ad or whatever.

Speaker 4: So yeah, I hope that. I hope that that helps.

Speaker 3: It was freelance. Thank you so might. I also dropped the link to Soma's profile he earlier shared in the chat link to his company on board dot com. If you are not connected yet, feel free to send a connection request because he posts really great examples on linked in the linkers in the chat and also next week will host our Minia webinar slash new episode of Full Final Life, sharing the update of full Finnal framework that we use to show marketing impact on revenue ninety days, the most popular b to the marketing challenge that we have been solved in on trying to find the best possible solution in the last three years. So with that being said, thank you so much for joining and for sharing the technique life. I think it was Freeland. I really enjoyed it and looking at the chat, it seems that everybody I love it. That's all join in.

Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Yeah, and it's soon.

Speaker 3: See you have a great day and see you guys next week. Chow.

Speaker 4: Thank you guys.