The Truth About AI Adoption in Sales & Marketing | FYM Ep. 59

Speaker A: The number one challenge to AI success is actually team resistance. People are worried that they are training their replacement. We start using, uh, our AI agent and our outbound capacity literally doubles.

Speaker B: Back in the day it was like cast a wide net, right?

Speaker A: And

Speaker B: today AI, the intent signals, feels more like, I think spear phishing. Right? It's the CEO who has to lead AI and this disruption. Well, welcome back to the Fuel youl Marketing podcast. I'm your host, Ardi. And today I'm, I have a very, very important and experienced guest on the show. And today we're talking about one of the hottest and the most, um, I would say honestly most misunderstood topics in marketing right now and how AI is changing the way we do outbound and build pipeline. Pipeline is the biggest challenge for companies today and you're going to be finding a whole lot of value. And today my guest is Trinity Nguyen. Trinity is the CMO of User Gems, uh, where she leads marketing, sales development and partnerships. Uh, she spent a good glorious six years, almost six and a half years with UserGemp. She's grown through the ranks and uh, she's now leading the sales trajectory and how AI is changing all of that. So, um, with that tenured experience. Trinity, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: Thank you for carving out the time. I know you've been busy on the road and you've been trying to educate a whole lot. Uh, it was such a pleasure meeting you at Tasks Talk, um, you know, just a few months ago. So, you know, as you know, we are talking about Outbound today. Right. Um, and you've had such an impressive career in SaaS. GTM. Um, what led you to kind of, you know, shaping AI at User Gems and how. And I, I guess you, you're new to the role, CMO role. So what is the excitement about this new chapter?

Speaker A: Oh, um, I mean there are a lot of things that been changing in the last, I would say 12, 18 months at uh, the, in the go to market front. And I think anyone who's listening to this sees it and feels it. Um, so that's what's going on right now. So I think it's pretty exciting time, uh, to be in kind of like doing this, but also like a really, really hard time. Uh, like, like you mentioned, I'm on the road a lot. I meet with a lot of marketing leaders, sales leaders as well and everyone's just trying to figure out, everyone thinks that they are behind because the moment you wake up and you read the news or you're on LinkedIn, it seems like everyone else figured it out except you.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: so we, because, because of that, we actually recently did a um, ah, an interview with 100 like revenue leaders individually and we released a state of AI adoption and go to Market report. So we interviewed folks to kind of like just see what's really out there behind all these headlines and posts that we see. And 98% of um, the people that we interviewed, these are the sales, marketing leaders, Mid m market enterprise. 98 of them are already using AI or experimenting with AI. But only 7% said confidently that they seen measurable ROI from the AI, uh, experimentation. So you know,

Speaker B: I actually saw 15%. So if there's, if there's, it's dropping down. That is scary because there was a report, uh, I had read last year. Yeah, I'm forgetting the, the, the Source. But yeah, that this is interesting. Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's also like though everyone has done their research differently and a different audience pool. Right. Um, we just kind of tap into our usual like icp. Like we use a tool called Winter. So we partner with them on this just to see like, okay, AI is everywhere. Everyone's uh, using AI everywhere. Um, everyone's trying AI. But for this audience, B2B sales and marketing leaders, how are we doing with AI? And so far it's about 7%. But when we ask them like, okay, so are you um, are you going to invest in AI the same or more next year? And 97% of them said yes. So that's kind of like saying like we, we, we optimistic that, that we will see the impact. So this is the 7% is not to say AI, uh, doesn't work. It's just, it's a new technology that evolved. The tech itself evolves so quickly. We trying to learn what it can do and then we also trying to figure out how do we bring this into the strategy and the programs and the team we have. So the 7%

Speaker B: adoption is also thing. What uh, I find is most SDR teams are either unaware of how to use and integrate it or probably they don't use the tech stack that's being made available to them. Right. And I think that's a big challenge too. That's what I'm seeing with our clients at least. Um, and you do remember we came from outbound back in the day. I mean, I can speak for myself. Back in the day it was like cast a wide net. Right. And, and then um, you know, we were fishing in a wide net with a white net. We put A lot of fish. And then, you know, most weren't what you needed. Right.

Speaker A: And

Speaker B: today AI, the intense signals, the. It feels more like, I think spearfishing. Right. So you know exactly what you're targeting, where you're going and why. So I think that mindset shift also is important. But the younger SDRs, I think I don't want to age anybody, but I think the adoption is. You have to be good with technology or you have to open to technology.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, 100%. That actually is really good. Kind of like back in the day when we just started out, like, yeah, you use technology, like you hit your numbers and then trust the, trust the process and you will hit your number. Like just make a thousand dials. You will get the 10 meetings that kind of like very, very predictable.

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker A: but because back then people didn't have this like, ability to spray and pray en masse. Now what they, uh, are you can and you burn down your temp. So actually now it's more important to figure out how to be like, have precision and focus, like you said, know who are in the market or soon to be in the market and focus on those instead.

Speaker B: Yeah. So what are some of the common challenges, like besides adoption? Besides we are in this phase, uh, of disruption, using of AI, AI, new AI tools. What are some common challenges which you think that AI can solve today? And what candid solve, like, you know, from a, ah, from a sales standpoint,

Speaker A: there are a number of. I'll tackle the challenges and then the areas where AI can help. So I think so, but based on like the survey as well, and also kind of like what we see, the two challenges, 30% of people, the leaders said that the number one challenge to AI, um, success is actually team, uh, resistance. It's actually the soft side of things. It's not the technical. So people are worried that they are training their replacement. And this is a very human thing. Right. Like, so I know that we talk a lot about tech and I can geek out about like Attack and you know, all that. End of the day it's the people that we have to also keep in mind, like, how do you make sure that our team feel confident that this technology, this AI agent that you bring in or ask them to build will only help them be more successful, make more money, get the promotion sooner. So I think that's the number one challenge. Number two challenge is because of GPT and like cloud, et cetera. Everyone just think about AI as like the front end, the messaging piece. Oh, it's so cool. Seeing it, writing and talking to you. But the most important thing is actually how good is the underlying data. So especially when you apply to like B2B go to market, like when you evaluate AI options or building it, think first the unsexy stuff, the data does this vendor, if you buying something or if you're building like what kind of data is it built on, is it good, is it accurate? And then you can do the fun stuff after that. So those are the two challenges. Uh, even in the survey people said the same thing.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, no, no. It's interesting that you say that because, um, I think the reason, like we were as C suite, we're going to hit the roadblock of getting adoption from the teams, right? And I often say it's a big one and that's why we say it's the CEO who has to lead AI and this disruption. Um, at least, at least I saw movement in adoption of AI When I got behind it. I was leaving it to my team to do the research and da da, da, da da, ah. But I hold the budget, I hold the vision. I also tell the story the best and I also know my mission, right. And the purpose. So I think when I, when I kind of copied myself into and I, I, I saw myself, I was not like I was a little disjointed, I was leaving it to my team. So I think that adoption. I want to hear your thoughts as to what can CEOs and to adopt. Like to tackle the first challenge, what can CEOs and what are you in the C suite position doing to get that buy in from the team members and what can companies do?

Speaker A: M. Um, I would say the number one thing that we can do beside like making sure our team understand why they build it and what's in it for them. Like we're humans, right? Everyone says like what's in it for me? So do that soft communication stuff. I think that's important because what we're seeing is like a lot of companies, it's like top down from the CEO or the board say use AI, period. Oh, and hit your number and we cut your budget but use AI though. So like that doesn't, that doesn't help anyone. So I say CEO or like C level leader. Like I would say work with your team to kind of like map out where are the. This is what literally what I did, I asked the team is like, what brings you joy? Like what is a drag for you? What do you hate as uh, part of your job? Because everyone has part that they Hate. Right. And then you kind of pick those programs and those areas and figure out like can we use AI to do this? So you naturally have the team buy in because they don't want to do these things anyway. So I think that's step one. Another um, thing also is everyone is running so lean. We have so much on our blades already. So like set up AI experiments is another job. But what I did is like looking at like what is our okr, um at the company. So we do quarterly okr. So what are the programs that we need or campaigns we need to run to hit those and then we go, okay, in those campaigns, what are the parts that we could use AI, uh to make it a little bit easier, faster, less painful. So then also get the team buy in because this is the KPI that they held to anyway so you don't come up with another, yet another job for them to do. I

Speaker B: love it. I think you've done such a great job because um, what we do is very similar. Uh, I did a roadmap for AI, UM First Agency and AIOPS Agency. I said this is the 12 month roadmap because we don't know what's going to come after 12 months and that 12 month may change. So, so we did very, something very similar but we call it a desire zone activity and a drudgery zone activity. So we did something similar. Okay, take the drudgeries and say what can be. Because that's slowing us down anyways. You're not doing it, you're procrastinating on it. You know, so what are those activities that we could automate and then bring speed and agility for you, for our customers and also efficiencies in the business. Right. So, so we built a few agents just to do the tackle the drudgery zone.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: it's interesting that uh, and you know, it gives you me the confidence that we're doing something right and aligned with, with some of the more successful uh, uh, AI adopters just like yourselves and your team. So pretty cool. Um, you know, so a lot of companies are investing in AI as you said and they, they have to first look at the data set if they're using a third party tool. Uh, that's one another challenge that you posted. Um, so talk to me a little bit about if a lot of companies are going to invest as per the survey and the report you did. 99, 95% plus. Um, not all of the, not all of them will see the results. What could be that missing link if they don't see the results. You said data should be clean. The data that you're building upon, it should be clean. Is there another item that they should be looking at to be more successful in that AI implementation?

Speaker A: Yeah, kind of like what I said about like the OKR approach. So be specific. What is the campaign? What is the program that you want to put AI on

Speaker B: M.

Speaker A: What is the expected output for that program? So with or without AI, like if I'm trying to run like say an ABM campaign, what is, what would success look like for this ABM program a quarter from now? What is the conversion rate? Not thinking about tech at all. And then after that is like can AI help? Because AI in the day is a tool. Right. So that, so you need to be very specific. You need to have clear input and output.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And that's how you're going to be able to like iterate and then keep iterating. Like it's not going to be like immediately a silver bullet that solves everything.

Speaker B: I think uh, you uh, know when, when HubSpot uh created this recent report as well on AI and gtm, I think there has to be budgets for pivoting and uh, testing. Right. End of the day, if you are going to say that once I've implemented something, um, and this is working well, we're going to stay stagnant. No, something new will come up. So you have to. I think there's new roles that were created earlier in the last year that you know, you need to know, learn AI, you need to be an AI engineer, you need to be learning prompting. But I think all of that moved to agent, you know, create building agents now and then. I'm not sure may there's next in the realm is how do you do robotics and, and have your have robots doing customer service calls. So I want to switch gears because we are somewhat seeing a whole lot of trend around uh, um, AI generated SDRs, like AI avatars and SDRs. Right. So uh, I know one mind is one of the tools. Uh, Amanda's kind of, you know, build that. What's your take on that? And where's humanization going to get lost? Stay there. What's the role of humans?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think there are a lot of. Because what AI is good at is ingesting a lot of information, uh, more than a human brain can. I think that's just objectively speaking ability to synthesize it very quickly, faster than a human can. So that's also another truth.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But it can't come um, it can't build the human relationships. So as long as, as the buyers at some point still humans, then there are some kind of things that there's no way AI can replace people. So we always think that AI will enhance the job.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Um. And maybe the job will evolve to take in more under there, like on their place, taking in more areas that today we don't even know what those are yet.

Speaker B: But

Speaker A: they won't replace the whole entire thing. They will. So like this is very big. But for example, we map out the entire job of a seller. Um, let's not even talk about marketing because we have so many things and they're like just sell it because it's specific, it's one job, everything they need to do. And then we look at it and it's like what can AI replace and what can a uh, human have to be involved? And I can guarantee there's no way that the seller will be completely replaced, maybe in some segment. So if you're on like transactional sales, if you are plg, right. Like that's, then they don't need to talk to the seller. But if you're buying something over like 100k, your next on the line because you have to defend it to the cfo, would you want to talk to somebody? So I think humans become a premium and all the busy exchanging email, finding information on the website, things like that. Yeah, it can be automated just fine. It's like us used to wash clothes on the river and now we have a washing machine. But I still like pick out like my nice clothes and hang it up myself or hand wash it. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: Yeah. So

Speaker A: yeah, I don't think it will completely replace, but it will definitely evolve how we buy and how we sell and the job will evolve with it.

Speaker B: I so agree. I couldn't. You said it so beautifully. I mean at the end of the day we have to see what were the, where we are coming from, the journeys that we've all gone through. Right. Um, but we're still here. Right. It's just that I ah, will just become part of that life, but we will all adopt, adapt and probably evolve. Um, I think what, what you're also saying is that at the end of the day companies need to look at where is the highest roi? You said humans will be premium. Where is the highest roi? Human BDR versus an automated bdr, you know,

Speaker A: and,

Speaker B: and where can I, where is the client finding the most value? I think so that's where. Um,

Speaker A: actually I, I can Sorry. I can share like a specific example. I think your audience might like it. So um, so I also managed the sales development team and you know, inside sales. Right. So what in the past a lot of outsellers, uh, like SDRs came from kind of like a zoom era. So so that means Covid time they didn't really have a lot of like outside of the house engagement. So a lot of what they do is just inside like building lists, finding people, engaging with them on like emails, social media, maybe some calling. So that was most of it. But that's not truly sales. I mean like you and I would. If we think about real sales sales is like shaking hands, meeting people. So with the AI, uh a lot of these inside data research, data entry stuff taken care of. So now our sellers. So in the past, in 20, I remember this 2022 we sponsor our first conference sester. So we brought, we convinced our SDR to go work the booth and that was their first experience. And I remember there were VP of marketing at like hot enterprise account walking toward us and the SEO lost it. Like they ran. To me it's like Trin, there's a VP of marketing from company. What do I do? And I'm like what do you mean? You turn around, you shake their hands, look in their eyes and have a conversation like a normal person. And it was really really hard. And I noticing that like a lot of people like inside sales sometimes like because they're always inside couldn't make eye contact especially if they work in a remote um company. So like you look at the screen like this, you look at the phone. So they couldn't like it was really hard to get our team to do more field activities in events. But we know that that's a channel that's work really well and actually in person works really well now in the age of AI because premium but now with AI they took like our AI takes care of all that stuff. So our reps are now actually volunteering to go to events. Even though it was the first time they training they can look people in the eyes, they can make conversation. So that's, I think that's how the job kind of evolving with AI and making the humans more premium. So I just want to be more very specific that story that we went through

Speaker B: and I think that's the mindset ah when we as CEOs or executives are talking to our teams, we're just have to position it like that as well because they are going to be premium be it in the CS team, sales teams Product teams or whoever the teams may be, I think AI layer is going to make us um, to some degree dumb, I'll be honest with you. But to a larger degree will help us if we want to learn from and have that margin on our day, to be able to learn something new, to upskill ourselves, to be able to do deeper in analysis or maybe more work with depth. Right. So I think that's what the positioning also needs to be. Or maybe not just the positioning, but education to the teams that this is a new era, a new chapter for all of us and that we have to ride this wave together. Um, so, so when you talk about investing in AI, right what are the top three areas do you think that companies will be investing in? If you were to choose between let's say AI infrastructure, um, AI powered software tools, or if you were to look at training, uh, talent acquisition and training consulting strategies, where do you think people are going to invest? A lot more

Speaker A: so in our survey, so in the survey we also asked like what are the areas that revenue leaders are investing in right now? And the top two areas. The first one is the AI search optimization. Uh, and the number two is Outbound. I think the search I think is pretty self explanatory. Uh, marketers understand this immediately. Um, and then the second piece is like Outbound is expensive but Outbound is another channel to feed the pipeline but it's very expensive and hasn't been performing so well in the old world. So how can I use AI to help with that? So those are the top two areas that everyone said they would be investing.

Speaker B: Fantastic. And I think that's the right thing to do because we are all wanting to grow our pipeline and I think those are two proven models and motions uh, that have a, uh, produced over the years. And ah, now the, the way we produce using those channels is changing and it's becoming very automated, intent driven. So, so I'm glad to hear that. As uh, an agency we are always at the helm of it. So we have uh, you know, deep understanding. We've built our agents around how to go to market with speed. Our agent Nova is in action. So I'm really happy to, to hear this. This is, this is amazing. Thank you. Um, fantastic. So talk to me a little bit about in terms of pipeline growth. This is without chaos, right? You have to use technology, you have to layer technologies. Um, um, how are you using some of these technologies and advanced strategies at User Gems and do you have a success story around User Gems that you want to share and that stands out for you?

Speaker A: Yeah, um, I do so but I also want to share a little bit of a context because I think all the answers is like it depends. So the context for user gems is um, we are very outbound centric organization. And I want to clarify the outbound here is not just like sale development. For me, outbound is outbound marketing and outbound selling doing together. So um, and that's why we have the SDR team or we call ADR within the marketing team account development. Um, so like 70% less of our pipeline comes from this outbound marketing and sales. So that's a context for like people to listen in. Um, so in terms of like how we're using technology, so we do have, so we have company, um, team plan with OpenAI. So GPT. So that's kind of like on the uh, employee development. We want to encourage everyone to lean into AI. And the team's been building out some really, really cool uh, custom GPT. We have like a GPT marketplace of different like agent teammate that you can just ask questions. We have um, I'm um, right now I'm experimenting with like having all of my direct reports within their team. Besides having human team, they also have GPT like teammates that they responsible for like developing, introducing them these GPT to the rest of the org and then let the org use it. And if the org has any feedback that they would go to the manager so that they're updating it so part of like a team structure to make sure that it sticks. Um, so I think that's one end we're doing on like the like people employee development, um, on go to market in terms of pipeline. So we use AI a ton. So our entire CRM, we have all of our ICP accounts in there. Um, so we have AI scoring those accounts daily. So the way we score, so we use we lucky because we have the product, we use user gems for all of this. So that's nice. I also told the CTO I would, I would quit if someone take this away from me because I would have to build an entire go to market from the ground up. Um, so like our ADM manager marketing would go into um, like the user Jam app and we see our ITP account the score

Speaker B: and M,

Speaker A: if it's past a certain score like over 100 for example, she would grab like top 500 and that becomes the ABM list for next month. And that list is the same list that you pass over to the account development team. And they know why these accounts have These good score, it's not a black box. You can see all the company signals and then from the adr they can see who in those accounts already score as well. So account and context scoring with all the signals enrich everything. So by the time that we like go after those companies on the ad side, all of these people uh, automatically added into sequences for the adrs, pre trapped emails, combining all those signals in there. So when the ADRs wake up on the first business day of the month, the afterlife, then they just see all the tasks already queued up for them pre drafted. So they only need to review and like hit go. They can spend more time on calling, social selling, et cetera, et cetera. So that's kind of like our entire piece.

Speaker B: Fabulous, fabulous. Uh, so you have left no one to be lonely in your organization. They all have AI colleagues, which is great. Um, I guess, uh, we are still kind of, you know, building that humanization through AI because when you are not awkward, as you said in that experience where your SDR was running to you say, what do I do? This is a new human being. I have to talk. I can picture and visualize somebody streaming, marching from the conference hall. Um, having said that, I think this is such an amazing way that you've explained that at the end of the day for our listeners, taking that context back from what uh, I think Trinity was sharing, that you have to have high value activities done by humans, which is human beings are premium. You also have to make their lives better. I think especially in the SDR positions. I think there's so much stress anyways if you can take away those tasks are important but can be automated or done by GPTs, uh, of the world and the tools that we have, especially User Gems, looks like that, you know, um, the buying committee is getting hit, uh, from all aspects, but more strategically using User Gems as a, as a platform, which is what we want. Ah,

Speaker A: I have the stats for it too. Actually. I just pulled this. So it's very recent. Um, so we started using uh, like our AI agent last October. So it's been 10 months or almost 12 months now. And our outbound capacity literally doubled. So we used to book for outbound. Um, so this is including ABM too. Used to be about 12 meetings completed per rep per month and now it's 24.

Speaker B: Wow. Um,

Speaker A: and it's just a double capacity. And then like in the past our team was terrified of cold calling because nobody likes to be yelled at or hung up on. And now that it has this little like a Copilot that whenever anyone picks up their phone, the copilot like pull down on the screen and say like this is the reason why I'm calling you. Your companies have this, this, this and you know us and then you know one of our customer, blah blah, blah. So now they love calling because like we have, we have a winning channel for, for the adrs and now it's just full of uh, wins from the calls because now they like people are not yelling at me anymore.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's more personalization to it and you're speaking to them as humans that how humans should be. But because the research is right available of what they interest them, where they are in their buying cyc, what kind of searches they may already be doing. Because you have the intense data as well I believe. Um, so cool. So cool. Are you partners with any other tools to integrate? I mean I'm not going to get into that. If you don't want to answer that, don't answer. Ah. Is this something that you've kind of, you know, you could go with Bombora for intense signals or you have you partnered with others to bring in that intelligence and the data sets that they are specializing in?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, so we have our native signals, um, like people say like dozens of native signals that is uniquely to ours. So we have really strong like people level signals. But then like we also have account signals. We also read into your CRM Gong transcript email exchange. So that's like native. But if you have something like a Bambora or a six sense or demand base or any other unique signals that one of our customers, they sell to restaurants and they're looking for any like mom and pop restaurants that have negative, four negative reviews in the last 12 months. Something very unique. You can bring it in. So essentially user chance become this like single source for all of your signals combined and then you have the account. That's how we do the account scoring and contact scoring.

Speaker B: M

Speaker A: Just throw anything at it and then it will start ranking it and give you a score and you can edit the score yourself too, so it's not a black box.

Speaker B: And

Speaker A: then how do you make sure everyone action on hot beats?

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker A: no,

Speaker B: intent signals are so important. We had a client whose uh, pipeline was completely misaligned just because of uh, you know, the intent signals were or not present or misaligned, you know. So I think that was, that was one of the things that we realized that intense signals are so important, especially the outbound place. Um, you know I always say it's like watering the garden right at the end of the day you don't want to water the, the wrong plants because they'll die. You uh, want to water the right plants who are ready to grow. So use intense signals. I, I strongly believe in them. Especially if you're running ABM campaigns and uh, you have towels. Um, so talking about intent signals, what are the signals or triggers that you think in modern outbound, uh, teams should uh, be paying more attention to and some of that still get ignored in your experience?

Speaker A: I think it really depends. Uh, and I really mean this because I'm doing this for six years and we have hundreds of customers now and everyone has depending on your space and your buyers, certain things are the air quote intent signals. Um, so like for example the restaurant earlier they're looking for, sorry restaurant software earlier they're looking for restaurants that are right now struggling to service their customers. So that's pretty bespoke. So I think it depends. But from like normal most of tech companies and services company people when they think of signals or intent they just think of like oh, someone searching for keywords that ah, related to me because I think that's a definition of intent. But there are so many more signals. So we have a slide that just lists out account level signals. So are they funding, are they expanding, they going to M and A, something like that. Right. So that's company level signals and then there's a people level signals that tend to get to be forgotten by marketers because marketers we train to think programmatically at the account and that's why intent like from like our partners, usually the sales team don't like it because if someone a snowflake is researching keyword related to user gems, my seller is not going to do anything with them. Like who? So the second layer of signals that you got to think about is a people level signal. So did they use your product in the past? Do they know someone who is a customer of yours? Did they just get promoted? Did they visit your website? Specifically the pricing page? Those are the second layer of signals. Third one is your first party data signal. So like CRM data any kind of engagement that you had with them in the past and present. So the best way is like once you have when you map those out for your business

Speaker B: M,

Speaker A: then you can combine them. So the most impactful one is when you stack all the signals together. So when you send an email, it's not just congrats on your new job buy my software. It's more like congrats on the new job. Like, I'm here if you need any help. Just send you a small gift. P.S. john from your sales team talked to us last year, but the timing wasn't right. If this sounds interesting, please talk to John. And you don't.

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker A: that kind of stuff you can only do when you stack a lot of signals together.

Speaker B: And I think companies, uh, who are listening, listeners who, I mean anybody who's listening, I think needs to start looking at how they're taking their data and using it. Trendy talked about using your data, knowing your data, and then I think, uh, I always say the data intelligence. Clean your CRMs, guys. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, if you have hygiene in your CRM and hygiene in your uh, other signals, uh, even if you're using any call recording softwares, take that data, run it through AI, understand your account level, you know, engagement, if they've called you, if you've spoken to an sdr, but they went cold, you know. So

Speaker A: I

Speaker B: think all of that also plays a big role. We've been helping companies kind of take account of all those missed opportunities and lost deals as well and using that to power up how our SDR is positioning it. So I think that there's a lot of merit in all of that.

Speaker A: One, uh, hundred percent actually that uh, uh, wake the dead or Revive Close loss is our second public campaign. So like for us, for any new customers, like uh, signing in with user gems. The first campaign we set up is Pass Champion. Easiest one sales understand, they love it. So they will adopt the past champions means that if they were your customers in the previous company, now they're the new company and they ICP and reach out to them. So that performs super, super well. Just because. Makes sense. They know you immediately, uh, three weeks after you send up the first campaign. The second campaign is Revive Closed lot. So they talk to you again, they're warmer, they know you already. And now there's something happening at the account. Maybe they visit your website again. They have a new VP just joined, they just got a new round of funding. Reach out, bring them back to life. That's the second campaign, that performance.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, 100%. I think there's a lot of merit in that. Um, I think what we're all talking about here is that SDRs are moving from being those dialers, uh, ah, to becoming, I think more orchestrators of their pipeline. And I think that's where the shift is, the big shift is. And that brings me to the close. I mean this is Such an interesting conversation. I can go on and on picking your brain, um, and what you're building. I could learn and probably guide that conversation to our customers and our teams. Um, so what I'd like to do is, um, for someone who's listening and thinking, um, and who wants to be more data driven and wants to know, um, where should they invest? What are other companies doing? I'd love to get that report Trinity, if you can put that in the comments. Um, and I think, um, I want to know one last question. Looking ahead from here to the Next, I'd say 12 months. Let's say where do you think AI is going to take us? And, um, what advice would you have for marketing leaders and sales leaders who want to future proof their GTM strategy?

Speaker A: Oh, man, I don't know.

Speaker B: I know. I

Speaker A: feel like anyone who says with a conviction that they know the future, especially right now with AI, I'm pretty sure they're going to be so off just because it changes so quickly.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: even in our seed ah deck years ago, like 2020, we think like usage. I was always meant to be an AI machine learning. We have a feedback loop and I'll take everything. And then like last year, so our roadmap of two years to get to like fully agentic, we had to shrunk it down in nine months because of how fast the technology evolves. So I actually don't know. I just think that a, uh, leaders, you're not behind, you're not falling behind. Uh, don't worry if you're doing something right now with AI, uh, even if it's just tinkering around and get your team to do that, you're already ahead. The tech will keep evolving. Don't get stressed out. Like if you can't do perfect prompt or some tool just sounds like I don't understand. Don't worry, it's going to keep changing. Um, even like I think I just listened to a podcast recently and they said that don't be so married to a specific tool because you never know who's going to be coming out next week. That is making the whole entire experience a lot more intuitive. So just tinkering with it and, um, yeah, you'll be okay. Focus on the human side of things.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. I was. You stole it. Thank you. Yes, I would say, uh, you rightly said, uh, you gotta get on the AI side, start testing it out and don't get overwhelmed. You know, there's a new tool, a new product in the market every now and Then so I think you need to choose the few tools, learn them really well, try and test, implement. And then I, I also think that, you know, as you said, you know, AI could probably create that playbook, but humans have execute on that playbook. So we have to bring that humanization into um, and I think of course we all have to learn. There's a podcast that I was listening to and they said, upskill yourselves, try and become a plumber. I said, no, that's not happening.

Speaker A: I mean, I stopped thinking about like growing a garden and farming and I'm not a farming person.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah,

Speaker A: but it's good to have, you know, like a very top skill. I

Speaker B: will say one more thing

Speaker A: on the wealth,

Speaker B: I'll uh, say on the wealth building side, people are buying. People who are really building long term wealth for generations are buying land and farming. So you're definitely

Speaker A: full circle back to where we came from, farming.

Speaker B: Never know. We might, yeah, we might. Who knows? But I think this is a very interesting time. It's an interesting journey. It's really good to be on this journey with leaders like yourselves. Trinity, thank you so much for being so generous. You gave away a whole lot of nuggets and tools. So for our listeners, um, you, you know, Trinity has been very clear. She's given practical advice and uh, very, ah, inspiring conversation. So if you want to follow Trinity, please check her out on, uh, LinkedIn. Trinity Nguyen, uh, User Gems, CMO. And uh, for our listeners, don't forget to subscribe to the Fuel youl Marketing podcast. And thank you once again for all your love that you've given me over the years. And Definitely check out usergems.com to learn more about Trinity and her company. Thank you again, Trinity. It was a pleasure.

Speaker A: Thank you. Artie,

Speaker C: thank you for listening to the Fuel, your marketing podcast. For more episodes visit www.fuelyourmarketing. cat.