From Go to CFO · 2026-07-21 · 60 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
38 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Michelle Reynolds' career trajectory defies the standard Big Four pipeline many finance executives follow. Instead, her path wound through insurance consolidation waves at IAG and Suncorp - where she witnessed merger cultures clash and learned to navigate matrix organisations - into operations roles in Melbourne, and eventually into CFO positions at growth-stage companies. She credits much of her early learning to working in open-plan finance floors with accessible senior leaders, pre-dating modern remote work, which shaped her current management philosophy of requiring office presence for junior staff. Her decision to study accounting wasn't driven by passion but pragmatism: her father's accident meant she needed to stay near home, and commerce offered the highest post-graduation earning potential. Throughout the episode, Reynolds discusses the trade-offs between career acceleration (the CA qualification she delayed four years), life balance (negotiating Saturday morning work to preserve Friday nights with friends), and the management culture shock of moving from competitive accountants to operations teams where some employees simply wanted stability rather than promotion.
She learned on the job at IAG by sitting with experienced accountants on the same floor, asking subject-matter experts for help with Excel formulas, and observing the CFO and heads of financial and management accounting day-to-day. She was responsible for four P&L lines as a junior, which gave her focused expertise and exposure to how larger finance functions operated.
After working on transferring a finance function from Melbourne to Sydney for a CGU subsidiary, she impressed the Melbourne team enough that they offered her an operations head role. She also had personal reasons - she'd met her husband in Melbourne and wanted a fresh start in her late 20s.
She initially struggled understanding why an older employee wasn't driven to advance, but eventually discovered that employee held gatekeeping power over fund releases and commission payments, which she managed by setting clear expectations. She learned to adjust her management style to fit different employee motivations rather than assume everyone wanted promotion.
No - she worked for four years without pursuing it, then took a three-month backpacking trip overseas at 25 before moving to Melbourne. She didn't prioritize the qualification early in her career, instead building practical experience through roles at insurance companies.
She believes juniors lose the osmotic learning that happens in open-plan offices surrounded by senior finance professionals, so she requires her Sydney team in the office three times a week. However, she acknowledges it's a manager's responsibility to create intentional face-to-face mentoring for remote teams, such as her Melbourne group whom she visits monthly.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode is predominantly a biographical career walkthrough with only occasional transferable insights buried among personal anecdotes and conversational filler. The few actionable ideas (board paper formatting for PE-owned sale-ready companies, trading Friday night overtime for Saturday hours, making your own role redundant) are real but sparse across 60 minutes.
don't put anything in red in the board paper, put it in orange. Like, just little things like that. And like, your board minutes aren't detailed. They're just action items
I always look at my role and I try and make it redundant because if you're not trying to move forward, you're always trying to step back
The episode recycles near-universal career advice - don't burn bridges, learn from bad managers, bring in external advisors for areas you don't know - with only one modestly fresh framing around proactively making your own role redundant. No contrarian or first-principles arguments appear.
I always look at my role and I try and make it redundant
you need to bring in people who are experts in the field to get the best outcome
Michelle Reynolds is a genuine practitioner who has held CFO and head-of-finance roles across meaningfully different sectors - insurance, property, rail, hydrogen startup, and construction - and is currently CFO at a $400M revenue business. Her breadth is unusual and credible, though her profile is firmly mid-market and she is not a widely recognised senior executive.
50 employees, year one turnover of 100 million. Then we're coming up to the sixth year. We're looking at 200 employees, 400 million turnover, uh, with 600 million in the pipeline
I came in as head of finance really to help consolidate, simplify. So Private equity had purchased the company six months before I started
There are some genuine specifics - named companies, a $150M JV, CIP's revenue trajectory from $100M to $400M - but the majority of the episode is anecdote-driven without precise dates, margin data, or measurable outcomes. Dollar figures and metrics appear only briefly and are not interrogated in depth.
a major deal come across the table in the development area, which was sponsored by amp and it was backed by a Saudi company and that was like $150 million deal
50 employees, year one turnover of 100 million...200 employees, 400 million turnover, uh, with 600 million in the pipeline
The host relies almost entirely on open biographical prompts ('Love to hear about that', 'Amazing', 'How did that come about?') and rarely follows up on substantive claims. There is no pushback or probing of numbers, decisions, or failures; the single mildly incisive question about learning without a Big 4 background is not pursued far enough to extract real depth.
Amazing. So. So you went into it for the money?
So if you go back a step there. So it'd be interesting to hear how obviously, you know, a lot of other finance people come through accounting firms
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Michelle Reynolds backpacked solo through Europe while her friends signed up for two-year stints working in London. It's the kind of call that sums up her whole career: take the path most people skip, and see where it leads. That path has since taken her through insurance, construction, rail and a hydrogen startup to the CFO chair at CIP Construction. In this episode, she joins Dave Goldbach, Director of [axr]'s Accounting & Finance practice, to talk about: How she picked up technical finance skills without a big-four background or a formal mentoring system to rely on Why she deliberately tries to make her own role redundant, and what she does with the time that frees up The board-paper lesson from her time under private equity ownership that still shapes how she reports to leadership today What it actually takes to run a startup's entire finance function alone, from payroll to capital raises There's no single route to the top of finance, just the one you're willing to take.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Do you want to become a CFO and take control of your career? Our AXR podcast series from Go to CFO will give you unique insight into what it takes to become a successful cfo. Hosted by myself, Dave Goldbach and my colleague Kunal Gupta from AXR Recruitment and Search, we speak to inspiring and successful CFOs from our network across Australia. They share their career journeys with us and with you. The closest thing you're going to get to delving into the mind of a cfo. We hope you enjoy it. Welcome to this episode from Go to CFO podcast. My name is Dave Golbach, Director of the AXI Recruitment and search, accounting and finance practice. Today we're joined by Michelle Reynolds, senior finance executive leader who's had a remarkable nonlinear finance career spanning insurance, property, rail startups and now, uh, construction. In today's episode, Michelle will take us through her impressive career. One where she often didn't take the well trodden path in her journey from IAG Suncorp in insurance and FS to property at Rossens Group, then moving into CFO or head of finance roles at RailFirst Asset Management, H2X Global and as previously mentioned, now CFO at CIP Construction. So thanks so much for joining us today, Michelle.
Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
Speaker A: Oh, uh, good. So I think where we'll start today is just kind of jumping back to where it all began. So I guess before your career began and took off, I'd love to hear about, uh, I guess where you grew up and what life was like and where, where that journey could have taken you.
Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So I grew up in the Blue Mountains, Lower Blue Mountains. And from there I was heavily involved in sport and enjoyed just the nicer life of growing up out of the city. When I sort of got to the later stages of high school, everyone's like, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I sort of had no career aspirations whatsoever like most kids, I would say. And then I got until about year 10 and I found a university degree that allowed me to do study with inside Australia and also overseas. And I was sort of drawn to that. And that was a marketing degree of all things, which looking back now of where I've landed is Polaroid opposites. I'm not creative at all.
Speaker A: Did you think you were creative in high school?
Speaker B: I tried to be. I was more of a geek than anything. So. So then I got to year 11 and unfortunately my father had quite a large accident. So then my mum actually said to me, do I mind going to university? Close to home and helping out around the house and I went, oh yeah, why not? So then at that point I started looking at university courses and the reality of the big wide and cost of moving out of home and doing all of that really set in. So I decided on the course that gave me the most money after I finished, which ended up being a Bachelor of commerce accounting.
Speaker C: So.
Speaker A: So you went into it for the money?
Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. Did I really want to? Did, uh, I really know what I was going into? I, I still laugh with my mum and dad now to this day that I did no business courses through my hsc. I had no commerce. It was geography and sport. It was polar opposites of where I ended up, bizarrely enough, in the Blue Mountains. The University of Western Sydney actually does have a good program where you can pre apply into certain degrees. So I was lucky enough I actually got a scholarship to do social science which is a stepping stone into the police force for criminology and things like that. So not my type either. Um, looking back I'm like, I can't believe I even considered it. But it was a degree that was guaranteed after I finished university. So with all my dad's health and all of that, it actually gave me some certainty. And then I was able to get into the course I wanted to.
Speaker A: Yeah, amazing. Awesome.
Speaker B: It was good.
Speaker A: Cool. And then, uh, yeah, then you, you obviously kicked off your career.
Speaker B: I did. So I went to university for full time for three years. I did it a bit backwards so I did all the really hard subjects up front and then I did all the really easy uh, subjects at the end. So I was, yeah, I was doing first year subjects in my last year. So I had a really lovely last year of university. Super cruisy. Yeah, just feel that way. Just happens. And so I actually started off in the city as an accounts payable. So. Right, right. At entry level in a corporate travel company. They uh, ended up. I was there for about eight months and through that time I even picked up accounts receivable. So got to see both sides of the entry level. In finance it was a small team. So you had your uh, management accountant, financial accountant and head of finance. Bizarrely enough it was all female. So I started my career with all female team and they were great. They let me learn from end to finish. I was. Because I was accounts payable, I was signing checks and my signature changed pretty quickly once you get up to 100 plus checks a day, so.
Speaker A: Oh wow. Responsibility.
Speaker B: Oh yeah, that was exactly. I was one of the signatures. Not the only one. That company. And that company was sort of my first introduction to corporate, where they do takeovers. So it was an American travel company and it got taken over by American Express Corporate Travel. I had the option of moving. They guaranteed that my job was safe. I didn't think it was that safe. And it was actually. And I looking back now, it's not that far out of city, but it was on William street in the American Express building out there. So I thought, oh my God, it's so far out.
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: All of 5 minutes walk.
Speaker C: But.
Speaker B: But I wanted to be in the city. So I decided to change and I went to management accounting at IAG.
Speaker A: Awesome.
Speaker B: M. So that was quite interesting. They had just purchased cgu and they were looking at doubling their finance team. So they. I joined a team. I was a team of two at that point, myself and my manager. And we were looking at the books and trying to work out, you know, how does it fit with inside the. The overall thing. I was so green when I got there. I can remember my manager saying to me once he goes, well, just check out these open bal and do all of this. And I'm like, what is an open balance? What is going on? And I had to research again. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I just, I felt so out of my debt. And it was a lot coming in because it was two major insurance, uh, companies combining essentially during that time. It was a time of growth. And my manager sort of pulled me aside and look, I think throughout my career I've learned a lot from good managers, but I've also learned a lot from bad managers. I was just lucky, one of my two. Earlier in my career, I had very good managers. So I had a manager pull me aside and he sort of said, well, you know, you're doing a good job, but you're just not at the level we need. It's not the role and it's not you. It's just we need someone a little bit more senior, uh, to do the more technical stuff. So it was, it wasn't. It was put nicely. I didn't feel. I felt at the time like, oh my gosh, I'm not good enough or whatever. And I thought, well, do you know what? I can sit here and be. Be not good enough or I can be better. So that's when, uh, I decided, you know, the status quo of processes wasn't good enough for me and I wanted to make them better. So we used to do. I'll go on a little side note, but a Lot of my girlfriends, I'm the only one in finance.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So growing up in the early years, when your early twenties and you're going out on a Friday night and I'm showing up at 9 o' clock after month end or whatever, and my, my girlfriends who are in advertising and all the really glamorous roles are like, what is this month end you talk about? And couldn't understand why every month I, I'd have five days of really long days.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: So I thought, oh, uh, do you know what? I don't, I don't have children. I was single at the time. What, what can I do to, to change it all up? So I thought, well, on a Friday night I prefer to be with my friends than be stuck eating pizza at your desk doing journals. So I actually spoke to my manager at the time and I said, look, when do you need the information that you need to complete the accounts? And I was still quite junior. I was, I went from a junior management accountant, I think I was management accountant at this point. And he goes, well, I just need at 9 o'clock Monday morning. I went, okay, I can deal with that. So I was dealing a lot with actuarials where we were waiting for the information from them. So instead of putting pressure on them on a Friday night, I used to say to them, I'm going to come in for a few hours on a Saturday once your numbers are done and I'll do it. So I was willing to forgo two hours on a Saturday, then sit there at my desk waiting for five hours on a Friday. So I sort of traded that off and for me that worked.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And it was really easy. So that's amazing. Yeah, it was really fun.
Speaker A: And I assume not too early on a Saturday morning after the Friday night.
Speaker B: No, I was young, let's be honest.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: I was always ready for Saturday lunch.
Speaker A: Um, so if you go back a step there. So it'd be interesting to hear how obviously, you know, a lot of other finance people come through accounting firms or, you know, the big four, whatever, and obviously you didn't go down that path, but a lot of people choose your path too. So in those, as you mentioned, you know, you're in ig, you've come from apar, you haven't done the management accounting. There isn't AI back then, obviously.
Speaker B: No.
Speaker A: How did, how did you learn? Like, how did you pick that stuff up?
Speaker B: So we, I was quite lucky at arg. There was, there was two guys in particular who are brilliant at Excel and they were like subject matter experts. So if you wanted something, you would go up to them and say, oh, can you help me with this formula? And you would just learn. So I, and I, I was talking to my team, I think it was last week when I was in Melbourne, and, And we're a bit geeky, but we had a. We had a whole conversation about which formulas do we like the best in Excel? And I'm like, yeah, it is. And I'm like, I hate Vlookups. And they're like, oh. And I'm like, I'm such a sumif girl. And so had this whole conversation. It was very funny. But I also learned, I probably learned my, My groundings of the small finance team helped me understand the workings. And mind you, the computer I had had a black and green screen, right. So I don't want to show my age, but yeah, it was, it was one of those. It was before Windows practically. Right then when I moved into the management accounting role, I sat on a floor with all accountants. It was just. So, uh, you had one side. You had financial accountant, you had tax, you had the CFO that sat in the corner who was so approachable as well. And then you had the head of finance or the head of the management accounting, the head of financial accounting, all sat on the same floor and you got to see them day in, day out. So you sort of got the feel and the know of what you needed to do. And that's how I learned on. On the job. And then on top of that, you also had quite a young. So when you go through. Not that I did, but when, when you go through the audit path, you're surrounded by young people. That's what IIG was for me as well. So, yes, you had a. You had early 20s, your managers were all in their 30s, and then the managers above that were 40s. So you didn't have that old school coming through and you just picked up so much. You knew straight away. Well, I knew straight away that I would never be a financial accountant. They. They are very technical and I thought, oh, my God, I'll never understand that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But, yeah, it just. And I think that whole structure allowed you to grow. So I. Even though. And I was speaking about it the other day because it was a listed company and you had so many people working on it. Like, I think I was responsible for four lines of the P and L. Yeah, right. That was it.
Speaker A: That's it.
Speaker B: So, you know, you don't go down to the bottom. Someone else is looking after revenue or Someone else is looking after expenses and I was looking after the claims side. So cost of sales.
Speaker C: So.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So what's. That's. It raises an interesting point that I've. I speak about quite a bit these days around. You know, I think when you and I started.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: It was all in the office with lots of people around you.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And it sounds like that's, you know, through osmosis you learn a lot. You know, what's your take, I guess on the work from home thing at the moment and you know, losing out on. Because obviously you learned a lot. It sounds like I did being there. Right.
Speaker B: I did. I. I did have. Look, I think. I think things change and Covid allowed that to happen. I, uh. In the back end of my career at ig, I actually worked from home. So yes, I was a bit. So sort of fast forwarding a little bit. I was living in Melbourne but wanted to come home and the only opt do that was work out of home. I personally found that really quite hard. I need. Even though I am an introvert and quite shy, I need that interaction during the day. So I used to walk out and took the ear off the coffee guy. I felt so sorry for him. Being a team leader and a manager during working from home, I've now got a. I've now got it. Where? In Sydney. My team. We're actually in the office together three times a week. So that's sort of a, uh, must for me. However, I do have a team in Melbourne and that works fine. I'm down there once a month, so I can see both areas of it. I still think from that junior role, but I think that junior role is almost going at the same time.
Speaker A: That's very true. Very topical.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that. And I always try now when I'm reviewing reports and doing all of that, that I'm actually sitting down with my team face to face saying, this is what I'm saying next month, make sure you know, you know what I'm looking for type of thing. So I think it's up to the manager to ensure that your employees are getting that face time that they need.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. I agree.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So if we go back and you kind of foreshadowed it there, you obviously then made a move to Melbourne.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And chose to refinance and go into operations.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: At a fairly early stage of your career.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Love to hear about that.
Speaker B: So I. In my early, early career, I had no intention actually to do my c. Well, I knew I had to do CA or cpa. I just wasn't in a rush to do it. So I actually worked for four years straight without considering doing any of that. Not a lot of people know that, actually. No, I know. Then I decided I took a stat for three months and I had all my friends doing the. Going over to London for two years, working, doing all of that. I didn't. It wasn't really in the cards for me at that point in time. So I decided just to do three months, pure holiday and went off by myself and did tours and met a lot of people along the way. But really I didn't. I can't believe, looking back, I can't believe I did. I was 25, traveling overseas, backpacking by myself.
Speaker A: Amazing. So.
Speaker B: And I probably got to see more than my friends who went for two years over in London and worked the whole time. So, yeah, I was very lucky. And then when I came back, I had a bit of itchy feet. I didn't know whether or not I wanted to go back to London or not. And then an opportunity in Melbourne came up. So I. Previously, before I took the three months off, I. Then I, uh, was working on transferring a finance function from Melbourne up to Sydney for a subsidiary of cgu. And that was interesting. They were. They were known as the cowboys of the industry, so. And I think they enjoyed that title. So they dealt a lot with car dealerships and they did all the insurances through the car dealerships and they had all these wonderful commission structures that were not black and white. I would say a little bit gray, but not very funny and very. You sort of look there and go, that wouldn't slide these days. So the whole idea was to bring it up into head office. So I was sort of back and forth for Melbourne for a little bit and then they said, well, look, you've made such an impression on us. Do you mind coming down and heading up operations? Wow. Well, I'm looking for a change and this is just sort of falling out my feet and this is really good. I then did the worst interview of my life over the phone. I just. It was terrible. I denied my whole way through it. I had. I did have a supporter down in Melbourne that sort of mentored me for the first couple of years while I was in Melbourne and brought me down. And, uh, he called me after the interview and he goes, that was shocking. He goes, I'm so glad I'm able to talk Stuart into letting you down here. Thanks. But yeah, so I went down and I had a couple of Staff members. And I was really just the, I was the finance conduit, but then looked after operation, a little bit of operations as well. So payment of commissions and things like that. So that's when I went from a manager of accountants and, and you know, uh, I like to think accountants are high achievers and really strive to get to the next position, particularly when you're young and it can be quite competitive into. I had an employee who was just happy doing what she was doing.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And it was just a shock to my sister. I'm like, what do you mean? Like you don't want to take the next step? You don't want to go here? And she's like, no, I'm just, this is me. And I'm like, oh, wow. So that took me a little while to, to adjust.
Speaker A: And was your team a lot older than you as well?
Speaker B: Yeah, so she, she was uh, she wasn't too much older and I had a few younger. I had a really young person who was driven and then I had an older, like an older person who was just happy doing what they were doing.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And then I used to get complaints by the state managers. They're like, oh, well, you know, such and such isn't doing this and they won't do that. And, and I went, well, I can't do anything until I understand the role and what we're trying to achieve and just leave it with me type of thing. And then I worked out what it was. It was because she was sort of the gatekeeper of releasing funds and, and making sure that people got paid the correct amount. And, and so she would only do favors for people that gave her chocolates.
Speaker A: Oh, come on.
Speaker B: And it was fabulous. Like, it was the best, it was the best thing because I would get all these complaints and I'm like, well, what did you do last time? They're like, we just gave her chocolate. I said, well, you're a fool. Then like I said, you either get in her line and wait or you pay the price.
Speaker A: Oh my God.
Speaker B: So, so that was interesting. But she was, and, and it was that, uh, she, she used to come in at 7:30 and leave at 4 every day. And there was no deviation. While I, I guess being in the industry that we are, there's always like, you never quite know my, even to this day, my husband's like, you. You're always late at home. And I'm like, yeah, well, I get caught.
Speaker A: Yeah, so me too.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So that, that was an eye opening. I, I realized you had to Change your management style to fit that.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. That's, uh. And that's a. An early lesson, I guess, because you would have been a pretty young manager at the time.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So early. Late 20s. Late 20s at this stage. Yeah.
Speaker A: So then you come back to Sydney after that?
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And. And then when's the next move to.
Speaker B: I went back down to Melbourne, so I. I actually met my husband in Melbourne and it wasn't until I moved to Sydney that he decided that it was a good idea for us to be together.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So he chased me up to Sydney and I went, well, and, and I was. I was late 20s and I'd been through a few relationships. I went, well, look, we're either going to live together when we're not, and we might as well live in Melbourne together because that's where he was based. So I ended up moving back down to Melbourne, right. And I moved from IG to suncorp, right. Because we had met at IG and it was just a nice break for us. So not to. So I moved to suncorp and bizarrely enough, suncorp had just purchased Amy M Insurance. So I went into that cycle again of a company purchasing another company and trying to. And because I was a little bit more senior, I guess I saw a little bit more of. Not so much the transactional way of. Was the way that the cultures were trying to fit in with each other.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Which was amazing because I actually sat with. Inside the Amy Group that was being purchased and not suncorp that was the purchaser. So it was sort of the flip. And bizarrely enough, the. The head of finance, or he might have been the CFO then he actually worked at IAG and knew me from IAG as well. So that sort of helped within insulating as well.
Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Speaker B: And then when suncorp really came down and was purchasing Amy, and I still remember in the office that the Amy guys who had been there and they, they were so passionate about everything, they'd grab their corporate charter and they'll be like, you know, this is going down the hill now and we won't live by this anymore. And you're like, oh, my God. But then. And, and with any mergers, it was like every week a new senior person started to be made redundant and you could see the trend of what was happening. So then I moved back up to Sydney because they were moving the finance function up to Sydney.
Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Speaker B: I was the only one from the finance team willing to go. And I was lucky enough, my husband at my husband he had his own business at that time, so he was easy. Moving a Melbourne boy up from Sydney up to Sydney is a challenge in itself, but, um, we got over that. Um, still, uh, it took him 10 years to actually say he lived in Sydney and was a Sydneysider. But now he's a bit of. He's a bit like an ex smoker, where it's, you know, Melbourne's not great and Sydney's the best. And I'm like, uh, there's got to be a middle path, right? So we moved back up to Sydney. With inside the insurance world, you'll see a lot of movement, particularly with inside senior levels. So, bizarrely enough, a lot of the IAG guys at the very senior levels moved to Suncorp at that point in time. So I did know of them, they probably didn't know of me, but I felt comfortable that, you know, the leadership was something I was used to and. And it was very good. We sat sort of on, uh, the level that had the actuarial team, we had the finance team and we had capital and also reinsurance. And I was up there for about a year. And bizarrely enough, and I mentioned before, you know, you learn more from, like, you learn just as much from a poor manager as what you do from a good manager. Not to say my manager at that time was poor. We just clashed, Right. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. Sometimes people just clash. So I was very much, uh, an early starter and I loved getting in early and, you know, being free on during summer to leave at 5 and have full daylight. He was very much a late starter and then would send me work at like, quarter to five, saying, can you do this? And I'd be like, but you've had it. You've had it from 3 o'. Clock. So, um. But then outside of work, we're fine. Like, I really liked him as a person. We just could not work together.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And it just so happened I was on the same floor is the reinsurance team and Tony Smith, who was the manager at that, at that point in time, just, you know, would walk around the floor saying hello to people and he would stop and have a chat and I, I was on the walkway. So he'd always stop and have a chat. And his head of operations, she was moving to Switzerland for a year just because she could.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And he said, look, you know, he goes, I know you're in finance, but interchangeable skills. Surely you can come across. Do you want to interview? And I went oh, okay. I'm as well. So once again going back into an operational role with a much bigger team. So my manager, uh, the one at the time that I didn't get along with, and when I got the role, we actually sat down and I said, well, look, I've got this role. I want to give him my nose. And I don't think two people were smiling as big in that office resigning. And he's like, I get it. And I said, I get your side as well. So we actually got each other from a. A personal level and respect. There was always respect, but we just couldn't work with each other. And that's okay as well. M. Yeah. So I went back into an operational role.
Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, did you think that was going to happen?
Speaker B: I. I personally didn't think at that point in my career I would ever get to a cfo. I didn't think it was in my wheelhouse. So that's why the, the shift to operational. I thought, well, this would be a good challenge. I also. And the breadth that it gave me. But that was. Was great. Once again, I went into people who were just. Life, we call them life. That's. That's probably a horrible thing to say, but they were just happy doing their day job. And I had a lot of. I had a team in Queensland where they were older ladies who were five years off retirement and had been doing the same role for 20 years.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So I'm like, how do. How do I manage that?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then I had young ambitious people, young guys working in the claims area that I actually got the job over. And I had to manage the first couple of months through why I got the job over him and.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And so that was a little bit of a challenge. I sort of had my first challenge as I actually had to get someone fired.
Speaker A: All right.
Speaker B: Because they falsified sick documents and things like that. So it was just this whole array of people that I had never incurred or encountered, I should say, in the finance world.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: That was just completely different. And it's like, oh, my God, what have I come into?
Speaker A: So how did you learn? How did you. How did you manage that? How did you learn?
Speaker B: How did you, uh. Look, once again, it's back to the, uh. Tony was a very good man. People, manager. Everyone loved him. Everyone not only loved him within, inside the company, but from external point of view, from a reinsurance point of view. It was so, uh, reinsurance, you buy insurance for the insurance company. So it's very outward facing. And I guess I didn't really appreciate how much my finance background would help me in an operational role because essentially, at the end of the day, it's all about capital management. So depending on how you structure your reinsurance, depends on how much capital you have to hold as a company. So the more effective your reinsurance purchase is, the more effective the capital is. So I guess walking into it, I just saw it as a new challenge, you know, oh, yeah, I'll be dealing with claims, I'll be dealing with this. But actually there was a lot of back and forth and they had their own accounting team inside that, and I worked quite closely with them. Um, and it was actually a very fantastic role. Got my first exposure to real corporate pressure where there was, there was a claim and the claim didn't work well. And we had legal involved and we had everyone from the top up, up and down and, and sort of said, you just need to fix it. And so it was something that really pushed everything through and gave me exposure not only to senior people with inside Suncorp, but also senior people with inside the reinsurance world. So that really helped, but it also sort of put a target on my back. Um, so when they were looking at people who we went through a restructure and they're looking for redundancies, I sort of said I wouldn't mind one. So I sort of put my hand up and it was my first redundancy, which was confronting. Yeah, I, uh, guess everyone always says it's not personal. Kind of is. It is personal to you?
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: I was lucky enough. I was actually going through it with one of my employees as well. And we had a three month period where we knew we were going to leave, but they gave us three months Runway. So I then I actually trained someone to do my role.
Speaker A: Wow. And then that's pretty, um, that's always, that's always a hard one, isn't it?
Speaker B: It is, it is. But I, I was almost ready to leave and I was still, I think I was early 30s and I had had a wonderful time at Suncorp. Like I'd got married during that time. I'd made really close friends. I not only did my role in the finance and operational areas, but I was able to branch out. I did some underwriting, I did a lot. So, you know, I was ready for something new. And, and granted to people in Suncorp, they, they were also throwing their hands up saying, how can we get you a job? Just relax. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's all right. So I had a good time of, you know, sitting back and thinking we did. I, I used to go out for lunch with my, my employee that was also going through the same thing and it was great. Like you just had this bizarre comradity. So good. So then after that I got introduced to AXR through just a random seek. I applied for a role on Seeking and I, I got caught up and they said, look, that, I think, I think they said something along the lines, that role's gone, but we've got another role that we can't fill. And they're looking for, you know, more of a cultural fit than technical. And they said, we've only spoken to you on the phone. Come in for a coffee. So I came in for a coffee and I said, well, look, I've been insurance really for most of my life in and out of finance and you know, I can stay there. And they're like, I'll uh, just give this, this guy a go. Like these guys go. So that's when Rawson came into the mix. It was in Rhodes. So it was sort of my first job outside of the city. I went for the interview and was terribly late. I couldn't find the office to save my life. It was horrible. And, and I like being on time.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So it really threw me. And then to make it. Where's my Matt Knight who was interviewing me at the time? He was also. He made me wait a half an hour because I was late. I don't know if it was by chance or he got caught up. But yeah. So I had the interview and.
Speaker A: An hour late.
Speaker B: Yeah. And. And as I was leaving, I sort of said to him, because I apologized profusely when I said, I'm so sorry I'm late, I got lost and. And then I said to him, I saw something. I said, I'm so sorry to ask this, but how do I get back to the train station? I have no idea. So I'm like, I look like this lunatic. And so I went for the second interview and I ended up getting the job.
Speaker A: Amazing.
Speaker B: It was something that I thought, oh, it's that 40 minutes train ride where I had lived most my life. It was complete change from that type of thing. But it was a mum and dad's company turning corporate, doing all these really good things and growing at the same time. So they were the third largest home builder in New South Wales as well as they had a development arm as well.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So from there I went in and coming from, from insurance where I said, you know, management accounting in insurance companies you can look after three to four Lines in the P L. I went in there and they're doing cash flows and they're doing all of this and I'm like, I was so out of my depth and I'm like, oh my God, I'm like googling, what's it, how do you do this? How do you do that? And I was quite reserved for the first couple of months and it was like I just needed quite time to get my head around it to make sure that these things were going to happen or what did I need to do. And I had quite a big team and, and so they had uh, quite an issue early on, which is why the culture fit came in more. So where they had these. What was my title? It was commercial accountant or commercial finance, where they couldn't talk to the development team, they just couldn't interact with them. Um, everything they said it was very financial and it wasn't interpersonal, like how can we help? How can we do this? So, so that's what they really needed. So a lot of my time was really spent just talking to teams and getting their trust and then working out what the cash flows meant after that. And I went into, you know, what, banking and things like that. And I had, I think I ended up with accounts payable underneath me and accounts receivable. So, you know, the, the breadth of the role just kept on increasing as my confidence increased throughout it.
Speaker A: Yeah, right.
Speaker B: We were lucky enough to have a major deal come across the table in the development area, which was sponsored by amp and it was backed by a Saudi company and that was like $150 million deal.
Speaker A: And
Speaker B: it gave me the first exposure to What M&As are like or you know, joint ventures or anything like that. And so they were. Because they were an international company, uh, oh, an international company investor, I should say. There was all these other regulations. So it was after the big push from the money from China coming in, they switched that off and then for. Came the international um, board came in and put all these other regulations around it. So I'm sitting there going, oh, okay, well this will be interesting. And it sort of came on the table. Then it got taken off and then it came on, it got taken off and then suddenly we, we signed the deal and it was run by the CEO and CFO to begin with, but then pushed, pushed into my area. And because of the international air exposure and regulations, the structure was actually quite complicated or technical I should say. So we had to structure it where you got your maximum GST and we didn't lose money out going into tax for an international company. So dealing with an international company. So it was all very. And because it was a JV and we only owned 30% of it, but we still had full control of it. So where it sat in the P L and balance sheet was a little bit different. Right.
Speaker A: Okay. And had you seen any of that before?
Speaker B: No, of course not.
Speaker A: How did you, how did you get ahead of that one? Um, then. So, uh, did you feel like your team might have known more than you knew at one point?
Speaker B: No one knew. No, no, no, no. That was, that. That was the better thing.
Speaker A: So we're all kind of learning together.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And look, that's where advisors come in, like. And you got to trust the advisors. We had, we had kpmg, but we had a good. They were, they were good advisors. Then they came in and they, they help us structure it. So they have. And I remember sitting in one of the meetings and I'll be the first one to put up my hand. I'm not good at tax. Tax.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Like, I do not know what the tax experts know. So I, I still believe that you need to bring in people who are experts in the field to get the best outcome. Yes. It may cost you a little bit, but in the long run, it's going to help you.
Speaker A: Yeah. I will go a shout out to Stu Camino, who was my boss at, he was my CFO at, uh, Stryker. He'd always say, you just need to. You need to know enough to be dangerous.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Across everything. So you're asking the right questions.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Even if you don't know the, you know, the detail.
Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Look, and through Rawson, when we went through the sale of the company, we did had some advisors that weren't up to scratch. And we pivot. And that is probably the most quickest pivot, um, I think I've seen. And it was the right decision.
Speaker A: So how did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker B: I think, well, the CFO was in a meeting and they just weren't, you're right, Asking the right questions, saying the right answers. So. And once we pivot, it was fine.
Speaker A: Yeah. Right.
Speaker B: But, yeah, so. So through this deal, I, I always thought. I used to call Rawson quite a small company. 300 employees. Oh, yeah, we're a small company because I was coming from 12, 000 employees. And so I always thought that it would be good to have, you know, the knowledge with. Inside the company, but sometimes that's not available. So to go external. And that's why these advisory companies Are there And you need to use the ones that you trust.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: That's probably the easiest way to put it. Yeah. So we did this deal and it was probably my first big deal that I've ever done and it was really cool. And Rawson also had a property board set up. So it was my first ever uh, time going to an actual board meeting, as casual as it was. But it was still a structure, a corporate structure that I wasn't familiar with. No. Knew about but in attending. So got, got exposure to that. Got exposure to a lot of things. Once again, the knowledge just kept on growing. Yeah. And it was pretty amazing.
Speaker A: Yeah, amazing. So you make a move to rail first.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: After that. And so what was that?
Speaker C: That.
Speaker A: How did that come about? What was that decision?
Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, Ralson, we went through, we, we sold the business. I think it was year two that I was there. We sold it to a Japanese company and it had a, the deal had a, had a three year tail. So of where we escrowed some of the cash and then we would release it over a three year period. So when we got to the end of that three year period, my, the CEO, cfo, uh, had left and it was just my time as well. It's sort of unfortunately for finance. It's the one area that's very easy to consolidate and to bring in new people. So I decided. Well, I didn't decide. I, I actually approached human resources and said, look, my role's diminished completely. Yeah, I'm sitting around twiddling my thumbs. What do you want me to do?
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And the lady hanging up PNC at the time just said, well let me work on it. And I ended up taking a redundancy. So it was, it was a fair exit and it was something that was really good.
Speaker A: Yeah. Good outcome.
Speaker B: Yes, it was. And I ended up taking another three months off which was enjoyable. It was just lovely. I really, I didn't travel, I just spent it. Oh, that's a lie. I did travel because it was during COVID and when the state started opening up. So we went up to Queensland when they opened up for a few days because we could just jump on the first plane. We're over in WA when they opened up for a week. So we were traveling around everywhere. It was really good. But then the other time it was just staying at home, being fit and healthy and really enjoying life. Highly recommend it to anyone if you've got the ability to do it. And then it was just time to get another role. So if anyone's Ever looked for a position? It's a full time job, as they say.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Not too sure. I think AI is helping with it a little bit now. Yeah, exactly. So then came the opportunity to be a part of Railfirst. So Railfirst is an asset management company and they were backed by private equity, so owned by private equity, but run by the management of the company. So they were purchased six months before I joined and they had sort of done a clean out of the management to change the culture. And I came in as head of finance really to help consolidate, simplify. So Private equity had purchased the company six months before I started.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And so when I started, they were going through a management restructure. They were changing the culture and they were looking at selling it with inside two years. So I started and it was nice and close to where I live in North Sydney. So walking distance again. I got back to walking, which was my only aim. Right. Being in roads. I'm like, I want to walk to work again. So then I started there and I sort of walked in and you could feel the culture of the place was changing, but there was still a little bit more. And I think the finance team is sometimes the hardest hit by culture. Culture because you're expected to do long hours for no recognition and no reward at the end of the day. So. So walking in it's sort of like, oh, hi, hi. And they had the new CFO at the time and he pulled me in, I think it was the first day. And he goes, this is not a reflection on you. And I went, okay, what's happening? He goes, I've decided to retire and I've got a new person starting. And I'm like, okay, great. Okay.
Speaker A: Right, on your first day.
Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was first week or something like that. And I said, yeah, sure, no problem. They're like, don't worry, you'll be looked after. And. And I said, yeah, it is. It is what it is. It ended up, uh, the new CFO coming on board was brilliant as well. He's a part of the exile world as well. So it all sort of worked. So when I joined, they had a company that had over, uh, seven entities and I think we combined it all into one. So it was. And it wasn't an over complicated company. So I don't know why. They had seven companies and they had intercompanies, they had all of this and it's sort of like what you're creating work.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, for no benefit. So we simplified that. Once we did that, we Just did. We started from scratch again. We did a stock take, which was my first time going into a. Um, it was down in Goulburn and it was a massive warehouse where they stored all of the, all of the trains and local motorcycles motives as well as the wagons. And we were counting nuts and bolts and. And because I didn't have an audit background, I'd never done that type of thing. So I'm sitting there going, yeah, I know. Like, thank God I chose my path.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It was always in the office. So we, I did, I did all of that and then I, uh, had an opportunity come knocking at my door. So I was very happy at RailFirst with Inside. I think it was with Inside the first six months. I, uh, got a knock at the door and I got offered a CFO position at H2X Global, which is a startup hydrogen manufacturing of vehicles. So new technology startup, that should have been my clue.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: So I decided after consultation with my husband, quite a lot actually. It's sort of like, well, you know, it's a startup, it may or may not work, it will put pressure on us and do we want to take the risk? And as was sort of mentioning before that I looked at it, that it gave me the CFO title very quickly, a lot quicker than what I thought. I thought I had another two years of being head finance before I'd step into the CFO role. It just made that go a lot faster. And the idea was, and I spoke to my husband James about it, I said, well, look, even if we have it for six to 12 months, I said, that's a really good thing on my resume.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Whether or not it works out. So, yeah. So then I decided to take the plunge and step into it. However, because I was only at RailFirst for six months, I didn't want to leave them in the lurch. So I was very adamant. Um, I gave them a three months notice period and I actually train the lady taking on my role.
Speaker A: So it's very good of you.
Speaker B: Yeah. And look, it all comes down to you. Never burn bridges. I think my working in the insurance industry always shows that, you know, everyone mixes in the same circles. And I had a lot of respect for Neil, who was the CFO at the time, and I didn't want. It was a critical time in the company that we were just getting it to the point where we could sell. And I was still learning a lot from being owned by private equity with how they worked. So the way that they wrote board papers was very different to A, uh, management report. So down to the point that, you know, if you're writing a board paper and we know we're going to sell the company in six to 12 months, don't put anything in red in the board paper, put it in orange. Like, just little things like that. And like, your board minutes aren't detailed. They're just action items. So, you know, that taught me a lot of. You can give enough information, you don't have to give it. Like, you don't have to give warts and all.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: During the board meeting.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: So that was really, really interesting. And I still to this day write board papers like I wrote them in Railfest. So it's. It's really easy. It was a good formula.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's good. And, and, yeah, I agree with that. That's something I think I. That was a big learning I had as well. And it's just, you know, when you get to the board. The board, they don't have time.
Speaker C: No.
Speaker A: And they just. You have to just kind of give, you know, short points.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Pick it up quickly and move on.
Speaker B: I had friends that moved on to a smaller, uh, insurance company, and I used to talk to them. I go, they're like, oh, we've got to write the ballpaper. And I went, oh, God. Like, you know, 10 pages. Good luck.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And they're like, no, it's 500 pages. And I went, how does the board read that every month?
Speaker C: Month.
Speaker B: It does make. It doesn't make sense. No. So we don't exactly. And I'm like, you're just wasting your time.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So push, push. Pushing back is. Or just giving a different option.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is always good.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: So, yeah, so I gave three months there and moved into the startup world and new energy world.
Speaker A: So did H2X. Did they know? Were they okay with the three months? Did they put that.
Speaker B: Yeah. No, no, no, no. I was very animate with. So I was lucky it coincided with their funding.
Speaker A: So.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker A: So it kind of worked out.
Speaker B: They got. Yeah. So they got the first sort of funding in, uh, in the November, and then the second funding came in the February when I joined. So it just. It actually worked out quite well. So I went from having a team beneath me to just being me.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So I went back to my roots. I was doing accounts payable. I was doing accounts receivable. I still deal with zero
Speaker A: journal entries. Yourself?
Speaker B: 100%.
Speaker A: I'd love to hear about that. I mean, that's always hard. Right. Especially because you've. I mean, you said that Rossin was small.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: On doing, you know, 300, but you know, you'd come from much bigger.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Especially Sun Corp and ig. Right. So how do you go from that to CFO of a startup, uh, and doing everything yourself?
Speaker B: It was. Yeah. Surprising. So I ran everything from cash flows. I was on the board at one stage. I, we, um, cash flow, uh, cash is king. And I remember the CEO at RailFirst, when I was leaving, he goes, I did my time in startup. And I went, oh, yeah, how was that? And he goes, yeah, get used to not being paid.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And I went, oh, won't happen to me. You know, nothing like that happens to me. And then when I started, we sort of had the perfect storm. We had Russia went into war with the Ukraine, which dried up a lot of funding, a few other things. So all these things started compounding. We, we had a, uh, we had a few successful capital raises. But then I realized with inside capital raises and the brokers that do that, there, there's some who aren't very professional. And I just, I was shocked with the lengths and how people went about to. In that industry. I just went, oh my gosh. So that was really eye opening. I was doing a lot of investor, uh, talking and trying to sell the company. So I got very used to selling the company and selling, you know, how good we are and, and what we're going to do and. And I'm like, even to this day, I'm still a part of it. I'm still the company secretary through all my sins. No, I shouldn't say that. No, it's actually, it's quite good.
Speaker A: Well, you did say before that you are, you can't, um, and I don't believe this, by the way, but you did say that you are introverted.
Speaker B: Yeah, I am.
Speaker A: Hard to believe, knowing you. But, but, but coming from that to now, having to be the face and investor relations and capital raises and, you know, is. That was a new skill you had to pick up. And how did you, how did you kind of go about that?
Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. So it was, it just meant all the stuff from a traditional finance background sort of went out the window. Um, because like, we had a team, we had four employees, 10 contractors. You know, it wasn't a very big company. And so from the finance, traditional finance perspective, you could do it in a day and a half, a month. Like, it wasn't a lot. And that was only payroll. So I even did payroll, which is great. So going in and selling the company was something New to me and there, there is an art to it and when you do it well, you, you can really see it. Just recently I've been on the other side of it and I'm like, where's the sales? Where's the status? And you know, I was very lucky that the CEO at the time who unfortunately has just passed away recently, he was magic at it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: He would walk in and captivate the whole and, and you would believe that this would be the next big thing. Like, and it is, but it was just like knocking at the door and, and it was amazing to see.
Speaker A: That's great. So, so if we skip then to now, you're obviously, you jumped into your first. Well, I mean that was obviously cfo, but you were CFO and everything else.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And now you're CFO of CIP Constructions with, you know, larger business than where you were, big team, all that stuff. So I mean maybe just very quickly, CIP Constructions, who are they? And then sure, tell us a bit about, you know, kind of in that, in the hot seat for the first time as, as CFO of a, of a bigger business and what you've learned.
Speaker B: So CIP Constructions is a brand that's been around for about 20 years. However, six, uh, years ago it was a management takeover by the Henry family that really just took up a portion of the CIP construction brand which was the industrial builder. And they, Mark Henry, who heads up the company now, really just started building it from itself. So 50 employees, year one turnover of 100 million. Then we're coming up to the sixth year. We're looking at 200 employees, 400 million turnover, uh, with 600 million in the pipeline.
Speaker A: Amazing.
Speaker B: So huge success story. I came in as, I think I went, I came to xr, I went, I'm so over. I just need something stable, I don't care what it is. And uh, I was either talking to you or one of your colleagues and, and the history of my employment and the whole range of I'm not in a steady thing sort of came about and I said, yeah, I said, but something will come up, don't worry. So I think when CIP came up it was a contractor role. They were just looking at filling it for three months until they found a full time position. I was just lucky enough that with the startup I was able to start straight away. I'm pretty sure I went in for the interview on the Thursday and I started on the Monday.
Speaker A: Sounds right from memory.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I walked in and I sort of, I, I prefer to Be stand backish to begin with and just listen and, and see what's happening. But I knew that there was a little bit of a irritation, uh, with inside the finance team where they felt unloved and not heard. And that was very well, well put to me when I took on the role. So I knew I couldn't stand back to begin with. I needed to come in full force. So I had a week before Christmas. So I came in and I met the Sydney team and I had a team in Melbourne. I didn't realize, I thought the Melbourne guys were already on holidays. So I didn't contact my team on the first day and I. And the second day I said, oh my God, I'm so sorry, I thought you were on holiday. So that was sort of my little hope, uh, for. Uh-huh.
Speaker A: Her.
Speaker B: But we got over that and I made the commitment to the Melbourne team that I think I went down every second week just to be seen. And I was two months into the role where Mark comes in and this is one owner company. He comes in, he goes, so I've decided. And I went, okay, what have you decided? He goes, I'd like you to be full time if you accept. And it was as casual as that. So I took on the role and I. The role is very different. So it's not. I don't have to be technical because I've got staff members for that, which is great. My role is making sure that finance is seen and we're there to help. So we're more of a business partner and changing that attitude of what we have. CIP as a company went from, you know, we didn't have management meetings every month. It was, you know, you got reports and hey, it would be great if you could make a decision off it. Where we're trying to corporatize it now and be like a tier one construction company, not in the cultural sense, but in processes and governance. So what I'm finding now is I'm dipping my toe back into the governance side rather than the technical side. I've got a team that is very well versed and very, uh, very good at what they do. So they do all of the reporting, they do all of the, I've got accounts payable, I've got payroll, they just hum. So but when I first walked in and I went down to the Melbourne office and it was like, hi. And they're m. Like, oh, hi, you like us. It's like, yeah, it's all right, you can speak. So I had to change my Tune and be more of that loud person and happy person because I knew my team needed it at that point of the information that I gave. So my management style really changed to just supporting them because I knew they were doing what they needed to do. It was just making sure that everyone else knew they were doing what they needed to do. So, uh, yeah, and now we're just, we're growing again and it's, it's good to see and it's good to be a part of.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's great.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So if you, if you think back to your whole career, then you're now in, in the hot seat. You're the CFO of a fast growing, you know, growing larger construction business.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker A: You've had an interesting career of different moves and different industries and changing in between finance and ops and all over the place. You know, if for someone out there who's, who's looking to become a CFO now, they're maybe they're five, 10 years in their journey behind where you're now. What. Do you have any sort of advice or thoughts on getting to this point?
Speaker B: Yeah, look, I said it not so long ago. We do a very good thing in CIP where every quarter, um, the executive team all get together in one place so we have a face to face because we are a national company and we're across all states. So everyone flies into one place and we have, we have a meeting. I, I work by one thing and I, and I said this to Mark and he sort of took a, he, he took a step back to begin with, but then he actually liked it. And I've done this for quite some time now is I always look at my role and I try and make it redundant because if you're not trying to move forward, you're always trying to step back. And that's where throughout my career I've been able to take little pieces from everywhere and get those experiences. So even now with inside my current role, I'm always like, well, and uh, now that we're in the AI community, like reporting for finance, I just want to be a reviewer. So that will move my role from five days a month to one day a month. So what am I going to do for the next four days? What am I interested in? So the perfect example is at the moment I'm helping, looking at our tendering process and seeing where we can, where we can be better and improve. And that's in new business, that's in sales, that's not in finance. So I, uh, I would suggest that you make the boring stuff easy and. And do what. What interests you apart from that.
Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. The value add.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: I think all of us accountants, that's what we want to do, right?
Speaker B: Yeah. 100%.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: 100.
Speaker A: That's great. Well, thank you so much, Michelle.
Speaker B: Thank you.
Speaker A: That was a great conversation.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Went by too quick as always, but yeah. Thanks again for coming in.
Speaker B: No, thank you for having me.
Speaker A: That's another episode of axr, uh, Go to CFO podcast. Thank you.
Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you.
Speaker C: Thanks for tuning in. And we hope you enjoy the insights from our network of inspiring finance leaders as they share their journey from Go to cfo. Uh, if you're looking to make the next move, move in your finance career or build your team, get in contact with the team at AXR Recruitment and Search. Today. We are passionate about building careers, not jobs, teams, not just hires. If you enjoyed the episode, hit the like button and subscribe today. See you next time.
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