Solar CEO Scaled From $300K to $20M in Under 3 Years (And It Runs Even WITHOUT Him) | Kevin Goodwin

Speaker A: Most founders spend years trying to get to 7, 8 figures. Definitely today's guest hit 20 million in under 3 years. Built the company to run without them and then turned around and started building other companies and foundations on top of that. And that's the conversation we're going to have today. And if you stay to the end, Kevin's going to pull the curtain back on something that he discussed right before we went on air. We didn't get too deep into it, but he talked about he's building this AI platform that allows you to connect all of these different apps that you all use on a daily basis and put it into one system. And when he told me that the cost of it, how it's not very expensive, it kind of blew me away. So I definitely want to talk about that. I think founders listening are going to be curious about that one. Kevin, co founder of Quality Solar, co founder of Scores AI and co founder of the Good Column Foundation. Welcome to the Founder Talk podcast. How you feeling man?

Speaker B: I'm doing great, thanks Alex. Always great to talk to you man.

Speaker A: Appreciate it brother. Appreciate you being here. Mhm. First, I was telling him right before we went on first podcast in the new studio, first founder talk episode in the new studio. So pumped to have you and honored to have you as the first guest here. All right, so let's talk about that story because.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: You went from zero to $20 million in your business in three years. Mhm. When you hear that, that almost seems impossible. Maybe other people have done it before, but to the average person listening to the average founder, maybe a 78 figure company, it took them longer than that. So what were you doing that other founders were not doing?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great question. Uh, so we started a solar company before we were in solar, Drew and I, my partner Drew, uh, and my other partner Jason, uh, my brother, um, we had a company called JDK Acquisition Station, Drew and Kevin. And actually Quality Solar is a DBA of that company. And so we were providing affordable homes for uh, we were flipping homes and then also uh, uh, rehabbing and keeping two and three unit buildings in Chicago, uh, and Chicago, uh, all over, uh, Inglewood, uh, the west side of Chicago. Those are the two primary areas. Um, and we would flip some and then we would hold several as well and be landlords and rent to Section 8 tenants. And we put beautiful fixtures in there and it kept us from having a turnover rate.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And uh, I've probably done a hundred of those units in my life. Uh, and uh, we started the Solar company, uh, four years ago now. Uh, no, we're in our. No, JDK was four years ago. Yeah, the solar company was just under, uh, four years now. Um, yeah, this year we'll probably do 30 million actually. But uh, it's what, how it started was we were in the real estate business, uh, and flipping homes like I said. And someone knew that we were in that. And it was someone that Drew went to high school with who was already in solar. I knew nothing about solar. Ah. And he wanted to know if we would be willing to do some installs of the solar panels. Um, because apparently that was a huge shortage. That's the biggest problem in solar is it's so easy to sell in the state of Illinois because there are federal and state credits. Even though the Fed credits just went away. Um, well, they went away to the homeowner. You can still get it through a ppa, but not to poor people with those details. But there's also a state credit in Illinois. So you're basically getting 55% off your solar. So Illinois exploded and there's only eight states with a state credit for solar. So it's a really easy thing to sell. And to be quite honest, but you. No one gets paid for solar until it's actually installed. So the problem they were having in this industry was that there was nobody to install the solar panels. There weren't enough people. They were selling so many contracts and yet it was taking 6, 8, 9, 10 months to get the solar on people's houses. So when we learned this, uh, and then we learned how lucrative it was, we couldn't believe it. We immediately stopped looking for houses to rehab. Really Immediately. Because of the business model. There is so much money in solar. Uh, not only that it's. You're going to save anywhere from 40 to 50% off of your utility bill by, by using solar. And then if you buy solar and put the credits into the, into the package, if you take your state and federal credit and instead of just pocketing it and spending it, if you put it into your solar loan, 25 year loan, it'll turn into a seven year loan and then you're literally going to own your energy for the rest of your life. Wow. Uh, so I mean we all rent energy guys. That's all we do is rent it.

Speaker A: That's a good point.

Speaker B: So it's. And you're always going to run it and it's always going to go up.

Speaker A: That's tr.

Speaker B: So that's the beauty of solar. Not only helping the environment in the ways that it does, because it doesn't put any pressure on the. It relieves the pressure that's on the grid with all our electrical cars or.

Speaker A: Yeah, I.

Speaker B: Everything, iPhone, you know, everything there is storage. Ah. For AI. Um, that needs energy, and it can all be powered by solar energy instead of pressurizing the grid. And so. But on top of that, it's owning the electricity in your house, and you're eventually going to own it and stop running it. Like, that's why you stopped running a house. Bought one.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: We'll do the same thing with your energy in your home.

Speaker A: I never thought about it like that.

Speaker B: That's exactly why people do it. And so if. If. If it is shown that way to people, they want to buy it. So you're asking how did we scale it that way? First of all, we learned how to be installers. Okay. That's separate from selling it and stuff. You. We eventually became a full epc, which is what I'll explain, but because how'd

Speaker A: you learn how to do that?

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, so we learned how to just installing it. We were already building homes. That was actually the easiest from there. Yeah, very easy. We were flipping, building from scratch, and rehabbing. Full rehab.

Speaker A: So you're a handy dude.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not at all. I couldn't do anything. I love the demo. I hire. I'm a general contractor. I insure the people and hire the subs.

Speaker A: Uh, got it. Got it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Drew and I both love doing demo, but I can't do much more than that. Um, can I ask you a question

Speaker A: real quick just to go back?

Speaker B: Go ahead.

Speaker A: It's part of the story, right? We'll get to the solar. Um. When you start. First started the home flip in business. How was that the first few years? I mean, did you find instant success? Was it challenging?

Speaker B: Oh, my God. It was horrible at first because you're. You got to find the right contractors, you know, uh, know.

Speaker A: Was it scary not knowing how to do some of this stuff? Because you come in, it's like, if you had to take over, I would think, you know, but you're not really knowledgeable in terms of how to actually construct these homes?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Was that a little bit. I'd be a little bit nervous.

Speaker B: Well, I had a big advantage. Here's how. Because I owned. I. My. I started as an ENT. I'm 51. I started as an entrepreneur when I was 25. I started a, um, subprime lending and. And mortgage broker company back, uh, what year that had been 2003, 2004 with my fraternity brothers that came in from Michigan to Chicago. Okay. So we started, we learned how to be mortgage brokers. That was back in the subprime industry. That was back when, when you had a 620 score, you uh, you could get 100% financing. No money down.

Speaker A: Million dollar house. Sure.

Speaker B: Uh stated income, stated asset. You don't have to prove any of it on a two year arm. And of course that's, that thing's going to explode after two years. So you've got to get your credit back from 620 to. The whole thing is to get your credit up to 700 and get out of that loan. Well, so few people did that. Which is why you guys all saw the collapse in 2008. If you're even old enough to know that. Well, reason I'm bringing that up. When that collapsed, I had a large uh, lending. We. It was our own lending, our own bank, our own mortgage company and our own appraisal company. And then, but it was in the subprime industry. So we went from five people to 40 people within two and a half years in three companies. And then in 08 the whole thing collapsed because the market just collapsed. The subprime industry completely exploded. And that's what everyone. That's when we had to bail ourselves out trillions of dollars or we would have had no money in the ATMs. And so what I went from doing that in 08 to 09 and 10 is I started, I had, I had great credit and so did a lot of my friends and family. And so we started buying rehabbed buildings already. They were already rehabbed. I knew builders from doing them loans for them. And so I started buying them with Section 8 tenants for the guaranteed rent. And then as they appreciated.

Speaker A: How did you get the money though? Because isn't that the subprime or isn't the mortgage business going under now or.

Speaker B: No, yeah, yeah. What it is is. So here's what it is. I uh, created an investment group of people. I would, we would have. You'd be putting 20% down on these properties.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Well, but then I would be negotiating with the builders as a consultant to buy them lower than that price. Okay. And I would put a consulting fee on the HUD and the consulting fee would go back into the pool. So then over time you would be getting your money back from the 20% down that you did. Within two or three months you'd be having that money back and then you'd have a uh, property that's, um, cash flowing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So it's illegal to get cash back from the buyer on an individual sale, but not if you're a consulting company putting it on the hud. And your consulting company puts an investment pool of money that ends up getting returned to the people that actually put the down payments down.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker B: So that's. That's how we did it. Okay. It's the legal way of doing it. There's people that did it illegally and that. You can't do that.

Speaker A: You know, I mean.

Speaker B: So anyway, that's. So then I was having people build those for free. Or, uh, not build. I'm sorry. They were building them for me, the general contractors. Then I learned how to do it myself by. These contractors were underpaying the subcontractors because I'd be there watching them build them. I'd be there watching them rehab, because I knew it was my investment group buying them. So I was watching them doing the rehab. I would team up with two or three builders and then be ready for them right when they were done to buy. You know, that was. And that's why I was getting the lower prices on them, too. Um, uh, so that. Lower prices, but we would still sell it at the max value with the consulting fee so that you don't. You keep them. The value in the. In the neighborhood. You don't want to destroy the value in the neighborhood by buying something for less. You want to put fees on it.

Speaker A: Because that's a good point.

Speaker B: A mortgage. Because a mortgage is much cheaper having 50 grand added to it than it is not having the 50 grand and the consulting fee. You're. You know, it's an extra 11, 12 on your mortgage payment.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So it's much more advantageous to have the capital back.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So we did several of those. We had 26 of those units. Another 20. Uh, we had three. Three units. A 12 unit. Uh, we were m. Stumbling.

Speaker A: I'm sorry, did you stumble in the beginning?

Speaker B: Yeah, I did in the beginning of the rehab. So what I was trying to, uh. Not buying them. I didn't stumble because it was just having the credit and the. I knew all the. I knew all the terms because I was a banker and a lighter. Stumbled in the beginning when it was my own rehabs. Yes. Because what I was doing was. Instead of when I was like, well, why would I. I created a general contracting company about two years after buying these properties. Because I'm like, why would I keep paying this general contractor all this money when I can be the general Contractor. He's not doing any of the building. He's hiring all these guys that I can just hire.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, because he's underpaying them.

Speaker B: They started complaining about how they were getting paid. And I was like, well, I was seeing the amount of money he was making, knowing how much they were making.

Speaker A: Uh, uh.

Speaker B: And I was like, this is ridiculous. These people need to get paid more. I don't need to get paid as much as they do as a general contractor. And then I get to control selling it to my own investment group.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So that's why I did it. I just switched the insurance. But then when you're dealing with people on a daily basis where you're employing them and watching the whole thing. Yeah, they what? The timelines. They say they're gonna get done versus when they get done.

Speaker A: Yeah, you gotta deal with all the headaches now. It's like, yeah, you're staffing people.

Speaker B: Yes, it is, it is. That was a big time headache. Um, and that never got easier, by the way. Dealing with contractors never gets easier, in my personal opinion. Um, you just need to make sure they're doing the proper work. They're never going to be in the time frame they claim they're going to be in. And you need to factor in anywhere from 10 to 12% on the budget they give you.

Speaker A: Um, one thing, one thing I saw you say on LinkedIn was the best teams do not need to be micromanaged.

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: Now explain how you make sure that they hit their deadlines and they're doing what they need to be doing, but you're not feeling like you're micromanaged.

Speaker B: Well, in my opinion, in the, in the construction business, uh, you need to have a great junior GC who, who is doing the micromanaging when you're the gc. So then they're doing the micromanaging. Okay. Now a great team that what you're talking about there is the solar company. They don't need to be micromanaged other than their own. I mean, everyone's getting micromanaged to a certain point. But it's, it's the, uh, it's the actual, um, you know, it's the team leads.

Speaker A: I can tell you live in the city because, like, the sirens are just not even facing you. No, I'm like, what are they doing? He's just like, this is city you're in from Chicago. So it's like, I could tell you're just literally not even phased at all. That's hilarious.

Speaker B: It's.

Speaker A: We got sirens in the background.

Speaker B: Sleep to that. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Funny man. Anyway, so I didn't mean to interrupt.

Speaker B: It's all right. Um, but you're right. A good team doesn't need to be micromanaged within a solar business. Um, it's. I mean, it would be the construction business too. I guess it would just be your junior GC but, uh, they were. They're managing, you know, the. They're the carpenters, the electricians. The other thing is timelines, too, because when you're getting permits, it's the timelines of inspections. That's not something that's a lot more difficult when you're built. Why housing is more difficult for micromanaging the solar.

Speaker A: I'm worried if you hit this table, it might affect the audio. So just.

Speaker B: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: Uh, I don't know if it will, but just in case.

Speaker B: Got you. Yeah, but why. Why it's so much harder in construction is because, um, there's so many more moving parts. Solar. It's just you're putting. You're adding to the electrical system that's already there.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You're putting a racking system on the roof. Uh, you're making sure it's not leaking the roof, and you're putting panels on top of that. Yeah. That's not rehabbing an entire house.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So a really good team doesn't need to be micromanaged when that's considered an electrician with two of his assistants. Um, and then you've got a roof crew, and you've got a lead of that roof crew. It doesn't take more than four or five people to do a residential house in two days.

Speaker A: Now, some founders might say that nobody should be micromanaged. Would you agree with that?

Speaker B: Um. Uh, well, I mean, when. Anytime you're dealing with inexpensive labor, I don't know how you're not going to micromanage that labor. Um, we. Because we also work with.

Speaker A: I guess it depends on how you define micromanage too, but it's because in my mind, if you set clear expectations, you have accountability. Everyone, they're trained. Well, you know, it's also.

Speaker B: What's your definition of micromanaging?

Speaker A: Yeah, just kind of breathing down their neck, checking on all the time.

Speaker B: You don't know that's not needed. I guess we have a different definition of it. Uh, and not only that, as people get used to what their jobs are, especially on something as small as solar is, it isn't. There aren't that many people. It's not that common Complex a thing. It really isn't.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, literally you're putting it on in two days. Sometimes one day. If it's a ground mount, it's three or four days, which is just a huge amount of panels. It's not that complex a system. It's just that there are so many of them to do. You know, we're doing 300, 400, 500, uh, you know, installs, uh, we started. So this year it'll be like 425 maybe, we don't know until the end of the year, but.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Uh, installs in a year. So you're. That's. I mean, you couldn't do that in houses. You're hoping you. Maybe you do four houses in a year unless you've got like five huge crews.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know what I mean? It's just a different ball away.

Speaker A: Yeah. Why do you feel like more houses don't have solar? I don't, I don't. Like here. You seem like there was a big boom. Yeah, Everyone was talking about it and then it kind of fizzled out. Yeah, I just don't see. Maybe I'm not looking for it, but I just don't see. As good as the value prop is, you own your own energy, it's cheaper. Like you can fix in the budget to it. Why wouldn't. Why don't you see more of it?

Speaker B: You're right. Solely about 15% of Illinois has it. You're right. Um, I think it's, uh. People don't want it on their roofs. Some people, they're afraid of leaking roofs. Um, it is. You've got to be in a home for 25 years or, I mean, you can transfer it one time when you sell it, but are you going to be in your home long enough to get all of the benefits of it? I think that's an issue too. Also, if you're in a condo, the whole condo association has to agree with it. So it has to be individual single family homes or commercial building. So you definitely need to have certain stipulations for it.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, but, um. But yeah. But anyway, so after we did the property flipping and then, then started doing the installs, uh, when we saw how easy it was compared to doing property flipping, we were like, okay. And then just being an installer, you can make a really, really good living and a successful business. But then we were like, well, why are we just installing when we can be the ones selling to the clients and then not just selling to the clients. We can be the bank. And so because we already had established credibility in, with the banks. Right. Uh, in our mortgage and I'm sorry, in our, our construction business. I mean, we had to get large construction loans, you know, to do this. And so that we paid off every

Speaker A: time because that's that private credit or

Speaker B: through banks or banks, hard money banks, they, uh, they'll, they'll build the houses for you, you know, at a price, certain percentage point, but you just build it into your, your margins. Yeah, um, we always built with, with bank loans. Um, and so we, we had that credibility with banks. Now the solar banks are different than residential banks, but we had, had such good reputations with those banks. And of course, if you, if you're doing a certain number of, uh, if your gross revenue is a certain number of millions, then it's not hard to get set up with solar banks. But then we got, so we got set up with solar banks and then we became what's called a full epc. And in a full epc, how we started to expand. Okay. So our first year we only did like 300,000 hours because we were just installing and just started to install.

Speaker A: 3. Question for you. Sorry, Back to the flipping of houses.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Go ahead for scale. So we have reference because here you're 20 going on 30 million. What was that business that, that first business where you're flipping the house was doing the rehabs. What was our couple million a year?

Speaker B: Yeah, the most we got with two was three and a half, $4 million.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And then, um, yeah, just carry $4 million for scale.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, okay, so first year you do $300,000 in solar and then, and then what are you thinking at that point? Are you thinking we got so much upside? Are you thinking maybe this is gonna be harder than we thought?

Speaker B: Um, well, because there isn't a lot of, I mean, there's not a lot of margin because when you're doing that, it's just straight labor for installing. Okay. When the kind of millions that you're talking, you're purchasing the equipment, you're hiring the sales reps, it's a service business. So just the cost of products is going to bring your gross revenue way up. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker B: The 300,000 is straight revenue from, from hiring. Uh, you know, that's just us, us and our installers. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It's. You really start when you start buying the equipment that you're putting on and hiring the sales reps. I mean, it's gross revenue that we're talking Right. You know, our margins are anywhere from 12 to 15% on that number.

Speaker A: Okay. That's net take home. That's actually pretty good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: For how intensive it is.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. But. But I just want to make sure everyone's knowing that's what it is. That's why it's scaling so much. Because what we uh, did and on that we aren't selling the solar ourselves.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Uh, we started doing that. We're sales guys. But no, when you have great red lines and great relationships with banks because of your credit reputation and because they saw that you could build before you started doing this.

Speaker A: Hm.

Speaker B: They give you great rates. Well then you can offer great red lines. That's what it's called. Where the sales reps can operate above that red line. When you give them really competitive red lines. And you've got a great operations department. We spend a lot of money on permitting. We spend a lot of money on interconnecting with the, with the energy companies. We had a great infrastructure of people to make so that to make your contract to install date a third of the time with other companies, you know, because install is when they're paid. Doesn't matter how many contracts you sell. If they're not installed, you don't make any money. Sales rep doesn't make any money. Nobody does until it's installed.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So the quicker the time between getting your contract to permit to interconnection, to permit to. To passing inspection, to what's called permission to operate, where they actually start getting, they get credit for their solar. Now, um, that time needs to be to get as small as it can, you know, and our timing right now is anywhere from, from uh, 35 to uh, 45 days, sometimes 50, um, that timeline and most people it's 91, 20. But we choose to spend a lot of money on our operations staff.

Speaker A: So first year 300,000. Did you think the next two years you do $19 million change?

Speaker B: Well, no.

Speaker A: That the vision or.

Speaker B: It was because it was just. Honestly it was because we got set up with some great banks. And when you get set up with these banks, you can start marketing to all these sales companies.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: We have these banks because they have great products. So then we would literally get, you know, people with 5, 10 and 15 sales reps. I mean it was up to like 60 sales reps. I don't know what it is now. So they're just slanging, they're slanging these deals. And so all we need to do is we started outsourcing we have our own permitting team and interconnection team. But then we started outsourcing it to people that do it profile so we could handle the volume.

Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say.

Speaker B: So. So when you have the great banking system and you've got the marketing system and then you start to get a reputation of doing a great. Because we do the installs ourselves are, uh, you know, our teams. So when you get the great start getting that great reputation, well, then it's a small industry. Everyone starts hearing about it and they all want all sales. Sales, solar sales people are independent. They don't work for anyone. They want to go where the deals are going to be done the fastest so that they get paid the fastest and the most aggressive pricing.

Speaker A: And so you're not doing the house flipping or rehabbing at this point at all. Right.

Speaker B: Just about. We're going to start doing it for the foundation.

Speaker A: Right. And we'll get into that. Yeah, we'll get.

Speaker B: No, we don't. We don't have the time and I. That the margins is just. Doesn't make any sense. It's so much faster.

Speaker A: We get down to something so much better, you know. Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, it's literally the only thing better than solar or the same as solar was. The subprime lending industry, when they basically get everyone with a pulse alone, this is the net. They're the same as far as the profitability and how easy it is to sell. I'm not kidding. A trained ape could sell solar. It's not hard to sell. It just isn't. If you've got the right roof, as far as, you know, if it's facing, you know, either south or west, if you're getting enough sun, basically.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, if you are and you own your own home and you know you're going to be there for at least ten years. Uh, and then you can also transfer that. There's no reason not to have solar. Literally none. You're just throwing money away.

Speaker A: Yeah. So those first two, three years, what's your role? Are you CEO? Are you CEO?

Speaker B: Chief Business Officer Drew A. CEO. So I'm handling all of the. Because you have to get. We also. There's a state credit that's involved, so you've got to get approved as a vendor with the state. Um, I do all the legal stuff, all the contracts with the. Our lending lines, all the banking, like the relationships with the banks. I handle all of that. Um, and, uh, I also. I mean, I interview. I withdrew. I interviewed all the sales reps too. But I was doing all the back end stuff. I was also handling the, uh, relationships with the energy companies and the interconnection system, uh, with them. And then, uh, my brother Jay was running the permitting, the operations end.

Speaker A: Hmm.

Speaker B: Um, and still.

Speaker A: And now you've sort of pulled yourself out of being in the weeds of the business, which most founders listening to this right now, to this show are trying to do that exact same thing. Or maybe they've already done it. But a lot of our inspiring to do that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: We want to be able to build a business. I'm on the same journey to build a great business. That's an asset that at some point it's not that you maybe step away entirely, but you can step out and not be in the weeds and the business can continue to run and grow without you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What's the number one piece of advice you would give a founder that's trying to grow a business that can run without them?

Speaker B: My biggest advice on that is hire the right talent, number one and pay for it. Yes, your margins are going to change. You have to be able to do that. You, someone can actually do as good a job as you can do. Uh, and you've got to give them the time to do it or, or pay for really expensive talent to do it. And yes, you're going to make less money in the beginning. But just make sure when you're doing it though, that you're actually creating other revenue streams that you're doing the pro. That's why we did it. We did it so that we could build our foundation, so that we could build our marketing company and our platform. We did that. Someone had to run those things and much easier for me to do it because I still am the chief business officer, but there's other people that we've hired to help me with it. Um, um, I just help monitor it. You know, I still work about 15 hours, uh, every two weeks maybe, so maybe seven, eight hours a week maybe at the most.

Speaker A: That's amazing.

Speaker B: Um, but I spent all my time at the foundation and the marketing company.

Speaker A: How did you. How do you. For a founder, listening. Maybe they're in a position where they're close to doing that. How do you find that person? How do you make sure they're the right person? Do you go after someone that's already done what you've done because you want them to do it better? Do you train somebody internally? Like what are the.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a. Solar market's a small world. So you. Uh, we just go after the people that have, not only that, a lot of people. We are a debt free company too, by the way. We don't owe anything. We've. We built methodically and we, we didn't come from any money either. Drew and I are from small farm towns and my brother, so it's not, uh, Waylon, Michigan is where I'm from. And he, and he grew up in southern Illinois, uh, right near Danville. Okay. Um, and so he was, I met him selling windows to me when I was rehabbing buildings. That's how I met him.

Speaker A: That's awesome.

Speaker B: And I, and I said that day to my fiance at the time, uh, best thing that came out of that relationship actually. I said, I said, uh, he's going to be my business partner. And within four months we were business partners.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And I didn't even know if he wanted to flip homes.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I just, he was a great salesman for windows. And I'm like, dude, he's, He's M. He's 31 years old. 30 years old, turns 31 in August. I'm 51. Like couldn't be more different as far as that's concerned. But yeah, he, we started wholesaling and flipping homes together. I had already been flipping homes and he just joined me. Um, but anyway, uh, yeah, the key to finding those people, number one, if you're in whatever market you're in, you know the other competitors. Well, for, thankfully for us, unthankfully for them, a lot of the people that were doing successful in solar and like exploding going into 30, 40, 50 states, there's so many regulations with those. They took on a lot of debt and investors to do that. And you can't really tackle that many states because of all the different rules. Different municipalities have different rules for solar. It's really, really hard. It's very specific for each town. No way you can master all those going into all these states. Who's supposed to handle all that? So then it delays everything you're doing, which delays. Not only that, you can't possibly know enough good installers. So your product is terrible going on the, on the roof. You can sell it anywhere. It's not about that, it's about the rest of it for solar. And so they, A lot of people made those mistakes. So to answer your point, these people are all going under. Like freedom forever just went over. They were the second largest solar company. Three, uh, Titan went when I went out of business two years ago that these are like the largest sales solar companies there are. They all went out of Business because they were way too leveraged and they were trying to go into too many states. So there's a lot of talent that's coming from that. You know what I mean? People that were great at their jobs. They weren't the ones that put that strategy together. So we just cherry picked from those opportunities. You know, you put ads out on Facebook. Drew did all of that. He's got a huge presence on Facebook. I've never been on social media until this last year, so I've got to build that up. So he found them and then we would interview them. And Drew is still the CEO there, but he's going to replace himself at some point too.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, to be able to ever sell it, you've got to get rid of the bottleneck of your biggest people. You can't sell it if it's reliant on you.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And we do want to sell the solar company at some point. Two or three years at the most.

Speaker A: Um, why two or three years?

Speaker B: Uh, we want it to get built to a certain point for what it'll sell for, number one. Number two, um, I want to be able to put the solar on, um, the affordable homes. I want the foundation involved with the solar.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, company. Uh, for a period of time. Uh, but also, we won't be ready until then. In my opinion. Drew won't be able to. We're really expanding now because of those companies going out of business now. There's so many people. There's Freedom forever. A huge portion of their sales team wants to work with us. Well, then we need to get bigger warehouses. And so we're looking. We actually sign one, two days. In two days, we sign a lease for really large warehouse here. So to store the panels. Because the other thing is, uh, you. You need to buy panels in bulk now because they all have to be domestic to get the domestic credit. Trump changed all the laws starting at the end of last year, so. Which I agree with why he did it, by the way. Uh, even though it affected my business a lot, he just wants to bring manufacturing back to the United States. And so we were buying them from China.

Speaker A: Right. We can't buy him from Germany.

Speaker B: That's good.

Speaker A: We gotta get him in, Kevin. And we're gonna get him in so fast and so strong. That's really good, dude. That's good comment. Let me know if that was a good Trump impression or if not, just let us know.

Speaker B: That was good.

Speaker A: You know what's interesting is, is that there's a business lesson in here. Maybe a couple. One you talked about the companies that tried to expand into all these different states.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Got maybe a little bit too greedy. Mhm. And didn't make it because they stumbled. Right. So there's a lesson of like, hey, stay focused on your pocket and make the most impact there. Don't go too far.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But then there's also the flip side of that, where you guys were doing these houses and these rehabs and then someone could have said, hey, Kevin, stay focused on this. This is your niche, this is your poc. And then you found the solar. And in some instances that can be like the shiny object. You know, as entrepreneurs, you've been doing it for a long time. We always see something. We're like, this could be the thing. You know, we got these big visions, but you guys saw something that was a legit opportunity, went for it, capitalized on it, and actually made it work better than the business that you were in to begin with. And I'm sort of going through that stage right now with Impacts Marketing being a coaching advisory strategy firm. Mhm. Uh, and now doing podcast builders where I felt like I found something after a couple years into it there I was like, wait a second, there is something even better here and I believe in it in long term and all that stuff. Yeah, talk me through that. In terms of just the business lessons and the takeaways and to make you think about business and entrepreneurship a little bit differently going through these.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think it really, really helped me was being in the subprime lending industry when you're, when you're in a market where it's extremely easy to sell it. Okay. Where the universe is just, uh, you've just fallen into the lap of something where, you know, it's not some door to door sale. Like. No. It's literally you'd kind of be a retard if you didn't do what it is. You know what I mean? And that's what this is. Uh, it's, it's just everything is supply and demand. And so if you can look at anything from an, from that perspective. Would I need this if I wasn't in this business? You know what I mean? Or can I see why it's so desperately needed?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: You know what I mean?

Speaker A: And it's a good product market fit. Right.

Speaker B: Exactly. So when, you know, it's that obvious, you got to go all in on it, you know, and it's just the right place at the right time. I think God does that stuff. I'm not somebody overly religious person. I'm just saying we already knew how to do construction. It wasn't some big leap to make our electricians. Electricians for solar. It took a very small amount of time, you know what I mean? And our roofers to become. And we also still put roofs on like people. Some people need new roofs. So you build it into your. Your solar loans now, something they couldn't afford to do before because you can't get a loan just to put a roof on.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: You can through solar and it's much cheaper. So there's so many advantages that the market was just allowing because it wanted people to have solar. Um, we were in a very green. When Biden was president, it was a very, very green, uh, presidency, you know. And so although it made it very, very affordable for everybody to get solar, you know, and wind and all of the other ones, you know, if you're in the right place at the right time. That just happens sometimes and it doesn't. I'm not any smarter than I was. I'm in the right place at the right time. I saw an opportunity and we just went all in on it. And m. We're so thankful for it. But it's what helped us build our foundation. It's what helped us create our marketing company. When something like that's. That's. The other thing is don't just sit and the other thing is just don't just sit and coast on this. Fund other opportunities and get those going. Increase your revenue streams. Do things and again, do. Make sure it's something you believe in though, and enjoy. You got to believe in it. You got to think it's helping people. You got to think that you're making a difference here, you know. And I believe in everything that I'm involved in. I'm offered to do. Drew and I are offered to do so many things. You know what I mean? People try to do that, you know, they. They try. When they see that you start to make some money, people just come out of the woodwork. My point is we only do things we 100% believe in. And I don't care how profitable it is if I don't believe in it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I feel the same way.

Speaker B: Um, it's not about money for money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I don't live expensively either, you know, So I think we're in an

Speaker A: interesting time because we have AI, we have blockchain technology, lot of disruptors coming. Just the. What's happening in marketing? I mean, there's a bunch of different things that are happening right now that are going to be very disruptive. And I encourage businesses to really the same, that same thing that we've done, that you've done, a lot of founders been on the show have done, is always be looking at your business and the opportunities around it. And it doesn't mean jump ship every second you get because you're worried something's going to happen. But when you see something that you think, I believe in this, this could make an impact. And I think there's a good product market fit. Yeah. I think now could be a great time to capitalize on it because of these factors.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Either either put some funds or effort towards it and keep the other thing going. Or in some cases it makes sense to adjust the business model and move it towards a little bit of a different direction because the times are changing.

Speaker B: Yeah. If you're in a business that can do that, then absolutely do that. Yeah. I'm not even saying completely change businesses, you know.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Well, for us too, like we're doing a lot more commercial, uh, solar that now than we were doing residential. That doesn't mean we're not doing residential, that we would not do it. But commercial because of the depreciation assets that are needed. Uh, and if you're using domestic panels, there hasn't been enough of a market on commercial solar. And so uh, and it needs, it's just as needed. Um, but that's. Now that's a focus that Drew's going on right now is doing bigger commercial projects. We've done, we did a megawatt which was. Man, that was challenging. But once you've done one, you want to do even more. There's a lot of profit in those, but it's really there. There's a lot of work in those two. They take months.

Speaker A: How do you know when it is time to make a change in your business though? And like, you know, for me, let's say I'm doing podcast builders, I'm doing founder talk podcasts. What we're on today, I've got Impacts Marketing, where we've got some clients there.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And then I'm really into crypto, you know, and investing and things like that. How do I know? Hey, Alex, keep that as a hobby for now. You'll do your investments, it'll grow over time versus, I don't know, should I start a live show? Should I start a mini business there? How do you. If you were coaching me, how would you, how would you kind of think through that?

Speaker B: I mean, first of all, how much time do you have?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, how profitable are the things you're doing now that are making money versus how profitable can this be? If it's success, you're what you're personally investing in, how much money is that making do that over time? If you really believe in what the model is and can find a way to make more money doing that? Oh, not only that, again, how much do you enjoy impacts marketing versus your crypto investing? You know, I would just, I would balance those things.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And not only that, use your spidey sense. You know, if you take the fear away and you just meditate about it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I think you're going to get your answers. You know what I mean? The universe is going to tell you. Your spiritual guides are going to tell you. In my personal opinion, if you take the fear away.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Uh, you know, the biggest I m tell everybody I'm a really spiritual guy. I'm a Reiki master in my personal life. And um, uh, I've always meditated and seen spirits since I was a little boy. And so what I learned the most about all of that and talking to very advanced people, people that like find missing photo, find people for missing photos, like work for police departments, like I know people like that and been to retreats with people like that. And so the biggest lesson, everyone says it doesn't matter how you find God, it doesn't matter. I mean it's literally there is no one path anyone that thinks that, I'm sorry, it's just not remotely true. Um, and all it is is battling love versus fear. Those are the only two emotions. All emotions stem from them. Which one leads you every day and which one leads your decisions? And my point is if you're led, if you're leading with love and you release, eliminate the fear of making the wrong choice and just really relax and meditate and make lists, you know, and the pros and cons you're going to know.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: Because if you're already itching towards that, you probably already know the answer is just when and in what level. Like what are you doing? You know?

Speaker A: Ah, um, also just really love what I'm doing here though. You know, I love the podcasting, great content, the marketing. I love it, man. So, or I don't know, there's an option and I'm investing in the other stuff. Sure, I've got my own stuff going on. But yeah, I'm also a fan too of like you said, kind of go with your spidey sense and Just, hey, sometimes just. You don't need to do something today, you know, you don't need to make the decision today.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Spend a little time here. Spend a little time older, you know, I'm 40.

Speaker B: Yeah, dude, you're still a baby, man. You're in great shape too. You take care of yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It'll come the way when it comes. It'll. It'll make it to where you just can't ignore it anymore. Uh, when, when that's supposed to happen. If you allow those things in.

Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I bring it up because I like doing a little bit of kind of personal workshop on this show too. I think it's nice for people to see like, real examples. And I know there's founders listening that are like, maybe they have a good business now, or maybe they've got a couple and they're trying to decide or maybe they've got some new passion that they want to go explore. And it's like they're like, I don't, I don't know if it's the right time or this or that, or should I do it? And I think what you said, man, about fear and love is really big. You think about you're coming into your day, whether you're making decisions for your personal life, your business, your relationships.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Are you leading with love or are you leading with fear?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That's a big time decision maker. I know that you're leading with love when it comes to the good Column Foundation.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Let's talk about that greatly. What is it?

Speaker B: Foundation. Uh, my last name is Goodwin. Drew's last name is Column. So it's just, it's a, it's a family run. It's a, it's a public foundation. We may make it a family foundation at some point, but what it's designed to do. I live in Chicago. Uh, Drew doesn't anymore. He lives in the Burps because he just had a beautiful baby boy and. But he lived in there before that. He actually lived with me. Uh, but, uh, he, uh, we from doing the housing because when I was doing the housing, uh, other than the homes that we flipped in the suburbs and in the city, we held section 8 properties. And so I've been in the south and west sides handling in this. In the poorer communities, the underserved communities for almost 20 years. And so it's always. And I was providing the beautiful places to live. Uh, and it was. I managed my own buildings. I didn't just.

Speaker A: Right. It was like slum lords.

Speaker B: Yeah. I very Much cared. I had never had anybody move. The only time that ever one. One family, one woman passed away. And that was the only reason I. Every time I ever had a tenant not stay the entire time. Uh, the Tennessee. And not only that, I would do two unit buildings because I would want to keep. Typically families on Section 8 have other family members on Section 8. And so I would want two different families in the same unit. And typically a, uh, matriarch is in the first floor of the grandma. I would want. I'm trying to keep families together in these neighborhoods in a very nice, you know, very nice home. Fences around it so people can't come in through the alleyways. That's what I was doing. I was already very conscious of what was needed in the. In the neighborhoods.

Speaker A: Why did you pick that area, that specific type of housing and communities? There has to be something there.

Speaker B: Yeah. The reason why I did was because, um, the builders that I met. First of all, the price point when you're rehabbing homes, the price point of getting the homes to rehab, the shells are much cheaper in those areas. So the profit margins you can make by rehabbing it, selling it to your own investment group or on the market and then renting it. Because the rent, if you're buying it for $40,000 and you're putting 100 grand into it, if you're selling it for 250,000 or selling it to yourself to get the other capital, you're grouped to get the other capital. Well, a mortgage payment on $250,000, section eight each. You got two units. They're two, three bedrooms. You're going to get 2,400, $2,600. You can easily. You've got profit margin there. You know, you're getting cash flow. So it's. The business model made sense, number one. Number two, whereas you're gonna. The other price points are so much larger, you know, And I'm talking frame houses. I'm not even talking brick houses, you know, brick. You're buying it for so much more just to get the numbers to work, uh, when you're running it. I also chose there because the biggest issues in Chicago, you see it all over the news. I mean, they hyperball it on the news. But, uh, are the. The crime. The crime and the. The. The gang problems. Okay, Those are the biggest problems in our. In our city. So if you start housing people properly there and providing resources, I'm trying to solve those problems, uh, help solve them. Obviously, I can't do it on my own. Um, so I'VE always had a big passion for that. And so we started the foundation two years ago because we were just getting to the point where even with great accountants we are going to start paying the government a lot of money. So why would we pay the government a lot of money when 60% of that we can create our own. You can donate it. Well why donate to somebody else? And just wonder if it's just going to the, the executive uh, director's pocket. No, I want to see the actual results. So we created our own housing foundation and our own community foundation.

Speaker A: Because you don't pay taxes on those types.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Yeah. That's awesome.

Speaker B: The money goes right into. It's a non profit. So 60 of your for profit tax dollars can go into your non profit. So we did it so that we could. So we started. The first two things we did were we started raising uh, we did some non, nonviolence prevention like parties, block parties for kids where we would bring in rides and amusement park rides, petting zoos, food, music, learn to have fun with community without violence, you know, and without. So that's what we did for two events and to bring some awareness to it. But then also we did um, uh, we also uh, now what we want to do, uh, through my podcasting that I've done that you were on, I met a grant writer uh, that I really liked and grant writing team. And so now we're, because of our housing experience we can actually apply for grants through our foundation to start doing much larger scale affordable homes. You know, I still want it to be two to four bedroom um, builds and here's why. Because I want to put people either on section 8 or people displaced for whatever reason. We, there's foundations that find those people that can put them in and they help fund uh, the rent for those people. But most importantly why I want two to four unit buildings because I want people that are from the community to learn how to. We, we're not just doing the house building, we're also got a community foundation where we help repair their credit, provide financial literacy, uh, financial education and how to become a first time home buyer.

Speaker A: That's cool.

Speaker B: And when you're doing first time home buying for two to four units, you, you live in one of the units. Uh, but then you, you have the rent from the other ones.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so you're keeping the wealth in the communities. You know the biggest problem in these communities isn't like on the west side right now there's the 1901 project going in. I don't know if you're familiar with it, it's right around the United center where the Blackhawks and Bulls play. Well, right now that's just a bunch of parking lots. It looks like World War Three.

Speaker A: It does, yeah.

Speaker B: Well, it's. There's a $7 billion project going in. They're going to make it look like the West Loop in Fulton.

Speaker A: Mark, that's amazing there.

Speaker B: There's a junior symphony going in. Well, that's where my office is and where my three units is being built. Well, the biggest concern of the people that are in these communities because, um, I'm on some boards here, is they're afraid everyone's going to get pushed out. It's going to be completely gentrified. Well, you want the building to be built up, by the way. You don't want it to stay looking like, that's terrible. Who wants that? Yeah. Ah, but having. Have. Have some of the dollars from that big project, there's a committee that I'm on that's helping do that, that keep the money in the community. Okay. And how you do that is you build affordable homes, but also by educating them. Look, you can buy these homes. You don't need to be pushed out. You buy the homes. You know, you can. You can buy the affordable homes that we're talking about. Even if you don't want the affordable homes just the first time home buyer education into buying something else that you want to buy. It's about educating the parents. So then you can also educate the kids, you know. And, um, so we don't only focus on building the affordable homes. We have a community. Uh, because another big problem that they're having in these areas, there's a lot of great grassroots organizations, okay? But they're not properly funded. They don't have enough funding. You know, they work in silos right next to each other instead of together on the south and west sides. Um, even doing. Trying to do the same programs, they should be uniting with each other, having grant writers come in. And so what my foundation is doing, not only am I writing my own grants, I'm partnering up with the grassroots people that have already have these programs that are from these communities that grew up in them, live in them, now know all the kids. I'm helping them build their foundations properly, using my grant writers to grant, write for them and for them to partner up with me, uh, to. We want to start, uh, we want to build a hub on the west side and on the south side to where all the resources are in one spot, one Commercial spot where you can get your psychological education from all the violence they're dealing with.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Nutrition education, sex education, contraception. Uh, so that when we get. We're eliminating the teen pregnancy that's going on. Soft skill training. A lot of these, these kids don't even know stay off your phone for eight hours. They don't know how to look somebody in the eye and shake their hand firmly. They don't even know that, let alone being able to keep a job. They don't know any of the soft skill sets on why it's important. Balancing a checkbook, uh, having a checking account. We help them with all these things, but we want them to be in one center instead of having to go all over the place. And instead of me creating all these programs, people already have them. I just partner with them and help fund them and make sure they're filing their 990s properly. Make sure that. Which is what you need to for your foundation. Just making sure everything's being run like a legitimate foundation. Not that they're illegitimate. They don't have the knowledge base or the funding. They have the heart, which is what matters. And they have the connection to all the people. So I can't do the work that they can do. I can only help them structure it from a business perspective. And then I, uh, would not only want to build the affordable homes, I want to put solar on all those homes too. People should not be. We need to be using solar for alternative energy. We have to. The grids have way too much pressure on them. And so I'm trying to combine our for profits with our nonprofits. Hire my contracting company to do the affordable building my solar company to do the affordable housing. Just have the. Instead of selling it on the open market. Your end user is the people in these underserved communities. You already have your end client. That doesn't mean you don't mix for profit with a nonprofit. And that's nothing misnomer. I want people to have. Just because I have a nonprofit doesn't mean I'm not trying to build my business through it. Of course, why wouldn't I do both? That doesn't, doesn't make me bad, you know, because if you don't try to also earn money. But, but doing it for kids and doing it for the, for the community, that's your end, your end goal. You're not going to have anybody really talented doing these things. They're not going to just donate all their time and not earn money. We mean we do these things for A reason.

Speaker A: So how do you separate a. Not for profit, then for profit then what's. What's the big difference?

Speaker B: It's a great question. The big difference is this, the nonprofit. So when you're doing your grants, you are literally building the homes for these, these people. I'm just giving you my example. Okay. Or the community center. You're literally providing these services to them. Okay. Uh, now I. The services and the community center part, that's really just basically a nonprofit. There's no. I don't have any, uh, I don't. There's no way to have my for profit companies get involved. Okay. But for the nonprofit on housing and for my solar company. You. Yeah, you're hiring your solar company and you're through the grants that you buy. Someone has to put them on. Uh, so someone has to put the solar panels on. Someone has to build the buildings. Well, you're just, you're hiring your own company to do them. You're just not. You're just. And then the grant is paying you to do so. You know what I mean? Your foundation's paying you to do so. Someone has to do the labor. And so that's how you mix the two. You combine the two. Um, but yeah, you just already have your end user. Your end user is the people with the under. The under resourced, underprivileged community. You're not selling it on the open market. Uh, and I only will if I sell them. I'm only selling them to the people that are the first time home buyers from the community. But I can afford to do that if it's through a foundation, if I'm raising money and I don't have to compete against the open market. You know what I mean? I get more time to build it. I can build it, sell it at a different price because everyone's doing it for the same goal. But that doesn't mean my company doesn't make money doing it. You know what I mean? These people have to work. They have to, uh. Your workers have to get paid too.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. If you're not making money profitable, there's no, there's no business or operation they even have.

Speaker B: Exactly. So my, my point is people need to understand you're not. It's not altruism for altruism. Uh, you are helping people, but you're also building an actual business. Yeah, and I don't, I just don't want people to shy away from it by not thinking you can't make money doing it.

Speaker A: Well, I think sometimes we demonize yeah. You know, in certain countries and environments, we demonize revenue and for profit. And it's like, you know, look, if you're not. When you do more revenue, you can hire more people, you can impact more people's lives, you can service more clients, you can do more good, you've got more money to spend on philanthropy or whatever you want to do in your community or whatever it is, it's like, it is a good thing. So as long as it's done in an ethical way and, you know, you're not hurting people in the process, obviously, but most of us are not. We're doing good work and helping people and.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: There's nothing wrong with that. It's actually good.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Now, you know, I think people see on TV that, you know, the. The rich of the rich, the top half percent in there, you know, they've got 11 cars and, you know, 15 houses. Like, you know, I'm not talking about anything.

Speaker A: Who gives a. If that's what they want to do with their money.

Speaker B: That's true. Then.

Speaker A: Then let them do it because they've probably hired a ton of people to do that work. Yeah, they've built things. They've. They've developed communities. I mean, you.

Speaker B: I just want. I think that's why other people are judging. I think that's.

Speaker A: I agree. No, I agree. And I think it's people that wish they had that stuff, to be honest. But I'm with you. It's like, hey, and not to say that every, you know, billionaire is doing the right thing or running ethically, but just, I think at that situation, and I go, well, what was the impact they had to get those things? Assuming they had an ethical company and they did good work.

Speaker B: Assuming that.

Speaker A: Assuming that. Right. You know, so it's like, hey, if you have all these things. Well, I don't know, we kind of live in an environment where if you earned it, you do whatever the hell you want with it so that it's ethical.

Speaker B: Right? Yes, exactly. And so many of those people have foundations, too. People come up. They do a lot about giving back.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, like Elon Musk could pay more taxes. Like, what do you want from the guy? You want to suck everything the guy's built?

Speaker B: Tesla, that guy.

Speaker A: It's a SpaceX.

Speaker B: Man. Is incredible what that guy is doing. I just, you know, leaders in general, whether. And I'm not a political person at all. God, I'm not. I've never voted in my life.

Speaker A: Really?

Speaker B: Sort of. God, never voted. The system itself is so Corrupt. It doesn't matter which side wins. I know too many people in the industry and I'm telling you, it does not matter who wins. They don't care who wins either. They're all part of the same committees, the same club. If you guys, you look at anyone that's been in either a Congress, a Congress, U.S. congressperson of any kind, uh, Senate or House, any, if they've been in it for at least two or three terms, look at what their net worth is versus skyrocket. And, and how do they do that? They make 200 grand a year. So just, just stop me with, you know, they're doing it for. No, they're doing it for themselves. And so that's why you think you have power when you're voting. It doesn't matter which side wins, guys. It just doesn't matter. It slightly changes what happens, but not really. It's really. It's a class war. It's all about economics. It's not about social versus, you know, the red versus the blue. They just want you thinking all that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: While behind the scenes they're doing what they're doing.

Speaker A: Yeah. It's unfortunate, but that's why I don't

Speaker B: vote, by the way. That's the reason. I think that's until the system changes.

Speaker A: Cases it's that way. Ah.

Speaker B: Until the system changes, there's just no point.

Speaker A: How are you gonna change the system too?

Speaker B: That's my point. So then what's really the point?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Not that if I'm concerned to take

Speaker A: one crazy person to think they could change it.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Well, we came in, we're doing some pretty incredible things.

Speaker B: I can't, I have to tell.

Speaker A: I gotta say.

Speaker B: I honestly have to shut the TV off when. Yeah, TV now. The policies themselves, there's a lot of them. I agree with some of them. I don't. I just can't hear him talk.

Speaker A: Yeah. From, from Elite. So I look at it from a leadership perspective. Mhm. Not the approach I would take.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, it's like, dang, dude, usually you're.

Speaker B: When you're even the human perspective.

Speaker A: In the human perspective too.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Anyways, so let's, let's talk. I promised the audience that we talk about this, uh, AI platform. You started telling me about it a little bit before we went live and my first reaction was no way.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because you're talking about all these different things you can do and obviously AI, uh, companies are thinking about how do they use it. But then there's, I Find myself, man, I have so many different softwares now. It's like. And they add up. It's like $200 here, 350 here, $50 here, 25 here. And you look at your P and L and you're like, jesus, we're spending this much a month on software and these different tools.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Talk to us about how you guys are bringing it into one platform and why that's beneficial for founders.

Speaker B: Oh, my God, it's. It's incredible. Now, guys, I've never been a social media person. I've never been a systems person at all. I've always been like the guy running stuff and not doing the. So. But I had to learn what all of this was. But, yeah, uh, uh, Travis Kelly and I and Drew partnered up with a guy named Anil, who is a brilliant engineer, uh, and a team of engineers from India, uh, who created something called Scores AI. And what it is, it just became usable. Well, we've been testing it for months where I can start marketing it comfortably, uh, yesterday. And it's called Scores AI. And what it does, it's a platform where it does lead generation, but it takes your ic, it takes your website, okay. And you put it into the system and then it generates your, your ideal customer profile, your icp, your avatar. Okay.

Speaker A: You can add your website sucks.

Speaker B: Well then you. Then you also fill out a form to give you all the details.

Speaker A: Okay. I was gonna say.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Most websites, I don't know if that'd give them good information.

Speaker B: Uh, but it also. You can also. There's a form too that.

Speaker A: Yeah, okay.

Speaker B: To give all your detailed information. It puts it into the system. You can. And then it generate. And not only that, it goes through. It has Elite, a huge email generation campaign. So uh, it has a thousand of those. Well, depending on the, on what you purchase. It does anywhere from 1,000 to 7,500amonth. Uh, bulk email campaigns. And the bulk email came is just to start the funnel really. It's about getting down to your LinkedIn. Okay. To what it does is it then uh, limits how many you do a day so you don't get kicked out of your own LinkedIn profile. It takes those emails and then slowly starts sending out, uh, requests for LinkedIn connections. And that's what you're really trying to get is the LinkedIn connections when it's business to business. Okay. And then from there it hooks up with your calendly, your zoom. It's all in one spot and starts booking your intro calls. You can also take the Notes on your intro calls. It becomes your CRM. Because then you also have what's a sales funnel on the side to where you can start, hey, this is a person I need to follow up with. This is a person. That's a perspective it gives you. There's a section where this is how much money I think I can make off of them. This is how much I've booked. You can start booking your prospective income and your, uh, uh, the, your prospective income and the income that you've actually booked through the. All through the same program.

Speaker A: Okay, two quick questions. One, when I hear AI lead generation. Uh-huh. And I think a lot of founders listening, the first reaction is garbage going to work. Garbage leads, spam people are not going to be responsive. So what are your. What is your response to that?

Speaker B: Well, first of all, it's. The algorithm goes through many different sources, and I don't know all those different sources right now. Uh, I'm getting the leads, number one. Number two, it scores the leads, which is why it's called scores AI. It goes from 0 to 100 on how qualified the lead is based on your avatar. Uh, when it's sending them out. Uh, uh, number three. The other thing too on the platform though, is it's got a social content calendar on it so you can create your own content. Um, and, um, by the way, also if you have your. The other thing too here is if you have your own set of leads, your own Excel spreadsheet of leads and customers, you can put it into there and it's going to do the same marketing for you that you would normally do. M. The thing is, it's, it's bringing all of it to one platform, so you're not paying for all these other platforms. Okay. But also the social content calendar, so you're, you, uh, you put the same content in that you would put in for. If you're going to post something on Instagram, but instead of just on Instagram, it posts it to everywhere.

Speaker A: Will it give me the analytics?

Speaker B: All of it? Uh, the analytics are everywhere. Analytics are all everywhere. This is another analytic page. Uh, on how many of the. It does your analytics for your Spotify

Speaker A: or you do like long form podcasting?

Speaker B: Uh, the. No, it's all, it's all short form.

Speaker A: It's all short social content.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, by the way, they can customize it for anything you want to. By the way, they can add up to 25, uh, different vehicles on the platform. Um, and that's, that's why I'M definitely going to show you, just so you

Speaker A: see what it does. For sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because the biggest thing, too, is basic as this is, because you could. It's a CRM that a lot. You can do all of this here. You can track how much money you're making on it. You can do all of it there. Your social content and your outreach all in one spot.

Speaker A: And if I said I just want to do 10 miles of St. Charles.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: You could do that easily.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Those AI agents that are doing these

Speaker B: things, it's an agent, it's an agent, it's a big agent. That's what it is.

Speaker A: That's doing it strong. Works out.

Speaker B: It's a team of engineers behind it, too. They're constantly working, fixing everything as it goes. And so it does all these things. Right. So if you just did Calendly, just did Apollo to do your scrubbing, your scraping, you know, and just did, um, prosp. Ah. AI. Okay. Just those three in a month is $349.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Right. This is 79 for everything. I just told you a month. First month is free. $79.

Speaker A: How are you guys doing it for that price?

Speaker B: Because that's a great question. Um, that has everything to do with the engineers. I don't know. I would be charging much more for this. I mean, obviously they want to sell the platform.

Speaker A: Right, Right.

Speaker B: So they're building the market to sell the platform, you know, within two or three years at the very most.

Speaker A: Right. Um, so it's not 79, and then. Oh, you got to connect. This isn't this. Oh, now.

Speaker B: Well, here's what. No, here's what it connects to. It connects to Calendly, Zoom, uh, and LinkedIn. Okay. Okay. And it does the blind email campaigns, a thousand of them a month.

Speaker A: What about the social platforms?

Speaker B: Oh, and all the social platforms and all the social. That's for 79. For all of that?

Speaker A: Well, that's. I mean, if you just look at that.

Speaker B: And a thousand bulk, uh, emails, if

Speaker A: you just look at the posting platforms, you're going to pay. If you connect 10 channels, whatever it is, you're going to pay 250. 200 bucks for that alone, probably.

Speaker B: That's my point.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: That's my point. So.

Speaker A: So is the cost down maybe? Because it's just the AI, uh, agents are now doing the work.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker B: They. They patented the AI agents that are behind it. So, um, I honestly don't know, uh, why it's that cost. Personally, I, uh, I haven't asked that question yet. Um, I, I've just said I would charge double this price at least is what I have said. But, um, I don't know if they're just trying to, you know, because we also offer a 1499 package where we help you do your content. I don't know if they, if they're, if they're. And then for $3,400, we just do all of it for you. You know, maybe that's part of the pitch. I mean, that's, you know, I don't know. I'm honestly not even selling that. I'm selling the platform itself.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Um, just because. How much? Why wouldn't anyone use that platform? You know what I mean? Plus, it's not like you're locked in, you can cancel at any time. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, why wouldn't you try it?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Uh, oh, we'll link up the description if you guys want to try listening, you know, give it a shot and see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, take a look at it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because even from the posting platform, I think, you know, LinkedIn, I, I pause there because they are very strict on the automation outreach. I don't know if you guys have

Speaker B: solved for that, but we have, because you just have to limit, you have to severely limit how much you're reaching out.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: It's 25 per day, you know, so

Speaker A: they'll let you do that even as an automation AI, because it is, it,

Speaker B: uh, automatically, it funnels it all for you. So you'll have 3,000 emails go out and only a week later it's only gone to 189 of the LinkedIn connections. That's just the top of the funnel. You know what I mean? It severely slows down how much it's reaching out to LinkedIn.

Speaker A: Okay, but, but even any of it, uh, I think LinkedIn is, restricts it. Not, not, not let you do it. But I mean, I think it's against their policies, what I'm trying to say.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, but, yeah, but it's all, it's all done, which is. We know LinkedIn very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean we all do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The thing is, and as long as your messaging is changes, you know, because there's an AI agent that helps with the messaging just like it does with the emails. They're on all the same emails is why they don't go into, into spam.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: It changes, the agent changes every email, changes the wording so that it stays in Someone's inbox. It does all of that. Um, yeah, it's. I've already worked with it for a month in my foundation, promoting my foundation, just to make sure all the kinks are worked out of it. Uh, we started testing it in January, but now we're finally at a point where, um, we can market it because.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's. Well, I think, like most founders, like, hey, I'm convinced when I see. Gotta try it to figure this.

Speaker B: Gotta try it. Well, it's free. It's free for a month.

Speaker A: There you go. So maybe give it a. Give it a whirl, but.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker A: I think you're convinced when you start to see the meetings, you know, happen, and then people show up and it's qualified, then you're like, whoa. Because that's the hard part.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, how good is the meeting? You know, garbage in, garbage out. That's why it does score it. So you can. It goes 0 to 100. You know, the template has it at 0. You can put it at 50 if you want, and it limits the. No, uh, it's how they score. What the. Based on your avatar. You know, I mean, how the different algorithms inside the system score. Score your lead.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, and I just think you're already using these other tools. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Right. Yeah. You're already using that off, and you save some money.

Speaker B: You're saving money that positive already. My point, you're saving. It's 20 of the cost and just.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know what I mean? Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker B: And not that. Why? Clicked here. To go to here. To go to here. It's all in one platform.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Um, last question here. What is your relationship with money as you've grown the last, you know, 25 years in entrepreneurship, you came from, you know, a smaller town, probably not a ton of money, I assume, right?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: What, um. How do you look at money now? And how is your. What is your relationship to it? I'm curious.

Speaker B: I've never been a big spender. Um, I spend on other people a lot. In other words, I don't think anyone's ever paid a bill when they've been with me. Um, I'm big on gatherings. Exactly. You wouldn't pay. Um, I'm big on being with people. I don't want them worrying about their dollars when you're. I want people with pure enjoyment whenever they're gathering with you. Um, I've got a 2012 Toyota 400 that this last thing I bought with my twin brother before he died of cancer. I, like. I could buy cash, whatever, you know, I. You drive a 2012 Toyota 4Runner? Yeah. Sitting right out there.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Maybe next year. Maybe next year I'll. I'll get a. Like a Land Rover or something. Who knows? You know?

Speaker A: I'm sorry to hear about your brother, by the way.

Speaker B: Oh, thank you. That's the last thing I bought with him, so that's why it's hard for me to part with it.

Speaker A: It's got some memory, some sentimental value.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Because I imagine you. You've. You're doing well, you could buy whatever you buy, Cat.

Speaker B: I could buy. Yeah, I could buy whatever I want. Yeah, exactly. But. So my point is my view of money, I like creating it so that you can. I like to change where it's coming from. So again, we're talking about these really wealthy people. If they're not doing it for great reasons. You know what I mean? I'm not saying altruism. You don't buy nice things for yourself. I'm not trying to say that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But some of the things you hear, you know, just the utter gluttony that's taken taking place, in my opinion, if you redirect the resources, uh, I'm saying make money for yourselves, man. Make it. But also be just doing something that either help your family, help your friends, help, you know, help the community. That's my view of money. That's why I like to pay for things for people. Just because it's not for. Oh, my God, Kevin's so cool. No, it's.

Speaker A: It's.

Speaker B: They're, uh, gonna relax and they can have fun and not worry about how much money they're spending. Yeah, A lot of people don't make money. They don't know how to.

Speaker A: Right. Especially if you remember what it's like. Oh, I've been in a position where I had a, you know, a young child and didn't have a lot of money. And going out to a simple dinner was like, oh, how much is going to cost? And.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And it's nice to take care of that for someone. It feels good, you know, just going up to a random family. We'll do sometimes just give them a little. A little something cash or pay for the groceries or, you know, just something little like that every now and then. It's just kind of nice.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel good too, you know. It, ah.

Speaker A: Does.

Speaker B: Of course it does. And just. Just, uh. So, yeah, my view of money is I want to direct the resources towards me and My, my people, as many as we can so that they go to the right reasons, in my opinion.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, that's my view of it. It's never going to be. I'm building a three unit next to my office. I'm going to live in the top unit. It'll be really nice, obviously, but I don't. I mean, they'll have a rooftop deck and I'll probably get a new car then because I'll have a three car garage, you know, so I'll probably get. Because right now I don't even have a garage. I live with my brother. My brother. There aren't enough spaces in our condo building, so I have to park outside anyway. So why get a new vehicle? Just to get. I live in Chicago, dude.

Speaker A: Yeah, no shit.

Speaker B: Just to get, you know, I mean, what, it's just going to be destroyed?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So when I have a garage again, I'll get a new car. But. But it's not like, oh my God, I'm. It doesn't. I don't care.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm the same way. Uh, he doesn't get me out of bed.

Speaker B: It just will do it. First of all, a vehicle devalues the minute that you open the door.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: It's not an investment, it's a liability, definitely. So the normal things people care about, I mean, I, I'll buy nice clothing, you know, but I'll get it where I can get good deals on it, you know what I mean? I've never understood why people pay grand for a purse or anything like. I mean that.

Speaker A: I don't get it.

Speaker B: I don't get any of that. So my view of money, I guess would be, uh, a little frugal on myself, but not in other people.

Speaker A: Yeah, It's a means to, to do what you want to do in a lot of ways.

Speaker B: Right. Having the comfort of not worrying about the next paycheck though.

Speaker A: That's nice.

Speaker B: That's wonderful. Yeah, I don't even. That.

Speaker A: That is the biggest value of money right there. Not having to worry about the next check, the next bill.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: A nice dinner. If you want to treat yourself or someone else or your family, completely irrelevant. That once you get to that point, anything after. That's great.

Speaker B: I can't remember the last time I looked at the bank account, to be honest with you. You know what I mean? I swear to God. So it's a.

Speaker A: That's when you know you're doing really well.

Speaker B: No, I just don't spend that much. And especially compared to what's in there. You know what I mean? That keeps accumulating. It's like. Well, let's look at it for what?

Speaker A: Just a good point. Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, so, yeah, I don't even. I don't even do it. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Uh.

Speaker A: Oh, no, that's it. Kevin, I really appreciate you coming on the show. This has been an awesome conversation, man. We've gone a lot of different places, and I think, uh, there's a lot of value for founders to find in this. Where can people find you, connect with you, learn more about what you do.

Speaker B: I'm on LinkedIn, uh, just under Kevin Goodwin. Um, and. Or the Good Column foundation is on there as well. Um, I mean, I guess any email. I've got so many of them, though, Kevin, at thegoodcowenfoundation.org

Speaker A: we'll link that one up. And do you want us to link, uh, the AI, uh, Scores AI?

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah, we'll link that, Kevin, at Scores AI. Cool.

Speaker A: We'll link it all up for you, man. Again, appreciate you coming on the show today. Breaking in the studio, the new studio for the very first time. I appreciate it. Thank you guys for watching and tuning in. And we'll see you on the next one.