Ep 92: Overcoming the Odds: Learn to Build Wealth Through Credit and Real Estate with Brandon Elliott

Speaker A: Hey, everyone.

Speaker B: Welcome back to Inside the Lions Den podcast. I'm your host, Aryeh Shinebein, and as always, you can follow me on Instagram at Arye the Businessman or on Twitter easheinbein. I know there's a lot of podcasts out there you can be listening to, so I'm grateful that you are spending your time listening to this one today. In this episode, I'm joined by Brandon Elliott, a real estate investor who turned his life around after facing some of the craziest and toughest setbacks that you can imagine. I mean, you'll listen to the episode and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. And then he learned how to, like, leverage credit and build a business using that and invest in real estate from that. And he's now gone on to help others achieve financial freedom. And Brandon really shares a lot of valuable insights that are going to be applicable to you whether you're in business or you want to be a real estate investor. So with that, let's cue the intro and get into the episode.

Speaker C: Welcome to Inside the Lion's Den podcast and I'm your host, Aryeh shinebine M. Each episode, I try to give you business leadership and life lessons that will enhance your business, your team, and yourself. Okay, here's the deal. I've worked at and with some of the best companies and investment management firms in the world. And as a fast and curious learner, I've learned all kinds of insightful things. Now I want to share them with you and take you along as I continue to learn more from others. So if you're a business owner dreaming of starting one, or just intellectually curious about business, or maybe just looking for some inspiration in life or in work, then you'll want to have a listen. I'm so excited for you to be here. And with that said, let's go inside the Lion's Den.

Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Inside Lines then podcast. I'm your host, Aryeh Scheinbein, and today my guest is Brandon Elliott. He's the CEO and founder of Credit Counsel Elite. We're going to talk about what that is, what that business does and what he does. But before we get into that, we're going to get into Brandon's backstory and how he ended up here. So with that, welcome, Brandon.

Speaker D: Aryeh. What's up, man? I appreciate you for having me on. I'm excited to be on with you.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, it's my pleasure. I'm really excited about this because a lot of people don't necessarily know, but I love a lot of the credit and the credit hack stuff. Like, I've always kind of done it in my personal background life or my side businesses. But it's just a very weird industry that now because of, let's call it the creator economy, or because of social media platforms, it's become weird. More well known or people see different ads and, and, but there's so much unknown to it. You know, not to tangentially kind of front run anything, but I've had so many private conversations with people where they're like, oh, well, I'm going to do this. Or I'm like, no, that's a terrible idea because I don't know what video you saw, but that doesn't make sense. And, and they're like, well, how do you know? And I'm like, well, in my industry, like people buy credit card debt or people buy the receivables from like these collection agencies or whatever it is. And, and I'm like, so the doctor you're paying doesn't even get that money anymore? Like they've, they've written it off or they've sold it and they're like, what? So it's always a really interesting thing. So before we get into any of this stuff, right, let, let's kind of talk about Brandon, the child. Like, what, what was Brandon like growing up right before we got into the credit counsel?

Speaker D: Oh, man. I, uh, would say a misfit at best. Uh, but okay, uh, all jokes aside,

Speaker A: before the misfit part, like when you were growing up, was it a, did you come from a household where it was go to school, go to college, get a job? Or was that not even your household to begin with?

Speaker D: No, no, I come from like a more dysfunctional family, which, you know, so I, for example, you know, my mom is manic depressive, bipolar. Uh, she was labeled that a long time ago. Couldn't work. She, she worked in and out of jobs, but really couldn't hold a job. She was in and out of the, uh, hospital as well. Um, had dyfus, which is like an east coast thing. Like child protection.

Speaker A: Child protection, yeah.

Speaker D: Yeah. In and out of our lives at certain points. I met my father when I was 18 years old, uh, in court so he could stop paying child support. Like, you know, that kind of, that kind of upbringing. Okay, yeah, you know, we, we, we lived off of, um, Section eight housing, um, Social Security from the government, about a thousand bucks a month and help from local schools and, and churches really, to keep us Afloat.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay. So misfit of sorts. Sounds like a little bit of a rough upbringing, right? Like, it's not. You're like, hey, how the white picket fence type of lifestyle.

Speaker D: I call it American poor, but still very blessed. We live in America, ladies and gentlemen. Like it's not other countries. Very, very wealthy and rich in many ways.

Speaker A: Okay, fair. So that also speaks to, I think just that comment, right? Like not knowing you for years and years and years, but like having, having had conversations with you. But that comment, that response of, uh, you know, keep in mind, it's America poor, how blessed we are. Right? That's just a positive outlook on things and that's just a very positive mentality. So why don't we kind of before, again, we get to like the anything. But where did that mentality come from? Was that an upbringing? Were you like that your whole childhood? Were you just like, hey, I'm going to look for the good, I'm going to have the positive? Or was that like a later in life thing?

Speaker D: No, man. I grew up in New Jersey, so if you've ever been there, it's a little bit more, uh, pessimistic, uh, or at least my circle, I can't, I can't judge any others, but my experience was I was in the wrong crowds. A little bit more, um, rough and tumble. Yeah, yeah. Like, grew up in 30 plus fights and you know, just things like that. So the mindset with, uh, my mom being manic depressive, bipolar, ups and downs, it's like I just realized at a very young age, if I wanted change, then really, you know, it was up to me to make the change. So at a very young age I wanted to get a job. I started working at 12. I was trying to get a job, uh, in the neighborhood and going around to golf courses at nine, but I finally scored one, um, in a restaurant at 12 years old from, you know, the owner at church. So it really just comes down to working on changing that mindset over a very long period of time. I'm about to be 34 now, so it's like, it's, it's been a long time. A lot of masterminds constantly investing in myself and being around higher level people to help elevate me. Really.

Speaker A: Okay, no, that, that's really interesting. Okay, so 12 years old, you get a job. But talk me through a little bit. You know, it sounded like a little bit of a rough high school time. What was that like? And where do we go from there?

Speaker D: Yeah, really? Um, my biggest like, at a young age, you don't know what you don't know. I thought everything was hunky dory and everything was good in many ways. Looking back now as an adult, I realize, well, there was a lot of mis functions, uh, going on in the household and drugs and alcohol and other things like that. And I realized that the biggest thing that we did fight over or issues in the house, the biggest problem and fear was always around money. It was always around money. So I realized that, hey, I needed to get out of that. But, uh, the first time ever, you know, I'm embarrassed to say, but I smoked marijuana when I was in, like, eighth grade with some. With one of my best friends and, like, some older beautiful girls that I was like, hey, this is awesome. And it was the first time that I just kind of had that release and I don't care type of approach, and. And, um, I got to relax at a young age. And so I liked that it was. Laughs, fun times, and I wanted to do that more. But I was poor, you know, Like, I was working restaurant jobs, making money, uh, under the table. But it was like, you know, I realized right away if I wanted to keep doing this because it was expensive, I needed to be the person to get it and then supply it to my friends, have them chip in so I could smoke. Smoke for free.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay. So an, uh, entrepreneur through and through.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's exactly what happened. And because I wasn't used to ever spending money, every time I would pick up more, I would make money from it, and I would just take all that money and go back and get as much as I could. And I just kept on rinse and repeat. And it turns out, like, it just kept on, you know, getting bigger and bigger.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And I'm building, like, a little war chest. Yeah, it's not. Not the sexiest thing. Looking back at it now, I'm like, oh, my God, 10, 20 pounds of marijuana. That's not the best way to go about life. Um, but that's just where life took me. And I didn't have goal. I didn't have a male guidance figure. I didn't have. I didn't know what to do. I just wanted to not be poor.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: You know, so.

Speaker A: So you're doing that through high school or what have you. And so, like, when you graduate high school at that age, like, what. What's now on the radar, is it like, hey, continue down this path? Or you're like, oh, I need to kind of, like, do something more legitimate, like, What. What's going on?

Speaker D: Yeah, well, so after high school, um, I'm still always working, you know, I was in construction as well and doing, you know, restaurants basically. But after having like, guns to my head, knives to my throat, my best friends that I hung out with, every single day, five of them robbed me a couple days before Christmas. It was just one of those situations, like, enough is enough. It's taken me down the wrong path, and I still didn't change my. Because I. You don't know what you don't know. I just knew that it was. I was going down the wrong path and it wasn't looking good. I actually had friends that, uh, were murdered and things like that, doing similar things. So I was just like, I got to get out of here. And so I went to California and, uh, started all new problems. And. Yeah, so I became a wholesaler, um, not like, you know, uh, the real estate wholesalers that we all know of now, but I, I became a wholesaler of growing marijuana out here and then, uh, shipping it to the east coast and not dealing with a lot of the small leg work stuff anymore. Having different goals at that time of, hey, I'm going to grow as much, sell as much, and then I'll buy some land up north where I can grow more and do the same thing. And maybe one day I'll have enough to buy a restaurant so that I can make money there. Because that's all I knew.

Speaker A: Okay, got it Right. So it was, it was grow the business, which you continue to do on, um, you know, from young age. And then you're like, okay, because I'll then have a real business in a restaurant. Which is just like, funny when you think about that now. Right? Like, knowing what you. Knowing what you know now, you're like, uh, worst business is up there in the restaurant industry.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And not to knock anyone listening who owns a restaurant, but, you know, the challenges that you're facing.

Speaker D: Difficult. Really difficult.

Speaker A: Exactly. So you're like, okay, I'm going to be a wholesaler of product and what happens?

Speaker D: So, um, you know, kind of fast forward things. In, uh, September 24, 2013, I was making hash oil in my apartment. And, you know, I had a buyer that he was going to buy a bunch in Texas. I was making a bunch. And, uh, you make it with butane. And I had my license to, to be able to have the beginning products, the end products. But I didn't know at the time because young and dumb and misguided and, uh, the middle part right there, it's a big no. No. And I didn't know. So I had an explosion in my apartment, and I was on fire. All the windows bursted out. I got tossed from my kitchen into my living room on fire. Getting up and I'm like, ah, you know, like, freaking out and start, um, running, ripping off my shirt and my clothes. And it was just one of those, aha moments, like, I'm going to jail. That's just all I thought I was, like, I'm going to jail. This can't be good, you know? And it was. It was really. It was, um, a remarkable m time because I was still protected. I've always had favor in my life. I've always felt like God really has a stronghold of, like, protection and favor in my life. But it was something that I needed because if I would have just got a little slap on the wrist, like, with my personality type, I wouldn't have changed, truthfully. So I literally had to burn 40% of my body. And as I was getting wheeled off in an ambulance, like, I see skin just peeling off of me. Like, it wasn't, uh. You know, I smelled horrible because of all the burnt hair off me. It was disgusting. But I was induced into a coma for a full week. I went through three surgeries. I had donor skin on me. They had to take skin graft from my thighs and put on my, uh, other parts of my legs, as well as my. My hands. And, um. And it was just a wild, scary situation. You know, I had to learn how to walk again. You know, being bedridden for three weeks in the hospital, learning how to walk again. The most painful, excruciating thing. And with all of this knowing that, hey, I didn't get charged for anything yet, but, you know, the cops have come in several times questioning me and asking me, and I know something's pending. And so that was just a very scary moment.

Speaker A: Got it. And so the, uh. Obviously, I can't even imagine what that experience was like. Like, physically, um, emotionally. I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of, forget financial support, but probably emotional or family support around that event because of the upbringing and things of that nature. So were you, like, totally alone and just, like, waiting for the police to come and put a handcuff on the bed?

Speaker D: Well, one of the best things that happened to me was that, you know, I was induced into a coma for a week, so I wasn't talking to many people for the first week.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Um, and then had to be in and out of surgery afterwards. But, you Know, I didn't talk to my mom prior to that for a little over a year. And so she actually, you know, when I woke up, she was. She was there. She came in and, um, and she ended up seeing me once she found out that I was up and alive. And. And so that. That was good. It was good to see her again. And then I had my best friend, uh, Mick Bolan, that was kind of just. He was always by my side. He took care of my dogs. Um, he brought me food. He was, like, checking in, making sure that everything was afloat, bills were getting paid, all that stuff. So. Wow.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: A ride or die best friend. Like, I couldn't believe it. And. And in those horrible experiences, that's where you could see, like, real, true, good people in your life. Or not, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker D: But what. What came next was basically after I got out of the hospital, about three weeks later, my house finally got, uh, raided again, because when I was in the hospital, they trashed my house going through it. But afterwards, they raided me with a warrant saying, you know, hey, here are all these charges. So I had five charges pending against me. Um, they were all, like, horrible situations that. That I could have served 12 years in prison. And it was just one or.

Speaker A: In totality.

Speaker D: In total. In total, yeah.

Speaker A: But still, I mean, listen, one day is too much. So. Yeah, 12 years.

Speaker D: Yeah, it was. It was just scary because I was young, I was naive, I had no. I thought I was going to get a little slap on the wrist. And I realized, like, quickly, like, this is not one of those things.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And, um. And it was just terrifying. So I paid for a lawyer that bought me a ton of time, and over two years, I bet, basically just kept on extending it. I got a mentor that. That changed my life. He saved me, honestly, because he prepared me for court. I got to tell my story. They. The judge totally did a 180 turnaround and gave me house arrest. And that was the, uh, pivotal point to change my life. It was crazy.

Speaker A: Wow. That's unbelievable. You know, what's interesting in that is that, first of all, you saw the kindness of others, right? Like, so you went through this horrible time. You saw some kindness from people.

Speaker B: You.

Speaker A: You clearly were like, hey, this is. This is a turning point that I have to, like, do something. You invested in yourself with whatever funds you had from, I guess, your business that, you know, the wholesaling business that literally blew up in your face. But you also. You're like, okay, I'm going to invest in someone who Helps you, but at the same time, that person then takes you to a judge. Right. Like, I mean, he doesn't physically take, but you have this court hearing and the judge basically says, hey, I see you're taking the right steps. And it gives me a little bit of faith in our system. Right. Because like, usually you always hear the stories of like, I throw the guy in jail, throw the guy in jail, and like, it'll, it'll fix itself. And most of the time it doesn't. It makes the person worse, potentially. I mean, some people improve, but like, whatever.

Speaker D: Yeah. Many don't.

Speaker A: Yeah, right. And so this guy said, okay, I see you're already on the right path or taking the steps. I'm going to, you know, kind of give you house arrest and do that. And so what, what happens during house arrest for you?

Speaker D: Yeah. So basically the, like you said, the judge, she realized that it wasn't malicious, it wasn't going to happen again. And instead of, she was about to serve me five years in prison and that. I just couldn't believe it. I was in shock. Especially after the DA saying all these negative things about you. It's like, oh, my God, I am a horrible person. You know, and so I'm on the verge of tears and I was prepared to talk. Luckily, so I got to tell my story. She gave me, you know, the house arrest. Um, that was a very surreal moment because I, when I had to go into the police station, put on the, the ankle monitor, I just like, I felt so ashamed. I felt like, man, I really messed up, you know, like, this isn't how

Speaker A: I envision my life. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: It was just like, man, I really messed this up. So I was determined at that point on to make things better. I was in $11,000 worth of debt from blowing up that. My, my apartment and, um, having to redecorate the whole thing, give them a free remodel. But I, I worked my butt off in two restaurants because that's what I knew. And, um, within one year, I paid all that off. They were shocked. They said that was the first time anybody has ever paid that was, you know, owed money. And m. Were you living in that

Speaker A: same, same apartment or that same.

Speaker D: No, no, they, they evicted me. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: Um, but, you know, I was working two full time jobs. I had one day off a week where I got all my laundry and everything else done and I was allowed to go to work. I was allowed to walk my dogs and I was allowed to like, work out or anything religious. So. So those were the few things I did, I did four hours every single day of real estate education early in the morning so that I could try to prepare myself for something different than the lifestyle that I was, I was, um, choosing.

Speaker A: So a curious question, like giving the restaurant, obviously juggling jobs like, what made you say, hey, I want to learn real estate?

Speaker D: Yeah. It's funny because, um, I always had a job. I always had a job, so I had work ethic. I just always did the wrong things as well on the side for additional income. And so I ended up doing door to door sales, selling Kirby vacuum cleaners. It's a big thing out here in California. And so. Or it was at the time. And I got really good at it, I think because of my background in sales in the wrong, uh, atmosphere. So, so I, I became good at it, I enjoyed it. Um, I started managing a team and then I door knocked on somebody's house that ended up saying, hey, you're really good. You should work for me in my real estate company. And back then it was a lot of like, um, nods, uh, notice of, uh, uh, foreclosure, basically default.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: And so it was all pre foreclosure stuff. And I got to see the systems. It was the first time ever seeing a true office real estate, office systems in play. Bunch of impact. We were making a bunch of money and it was just like, wow, this is inspiring. And, and so I knew I wanted to do it, but I still wasn't getting the education that I needed there. So I just went down this rabbit hole for two full years, four hours every single day, no exaggeration. And books, podcasts, YouTube, that, that started getting me prepared to invest in real estate.

Speaker A: So what's so interesting is. So did you go work for that guy or No?

Speaker D: I did for, um, for about six months. And then there ended up being some greed issues with people higher up above me because of the money. Okay. And so it kind of fell apart.

Speaker A: Okay. Um, because it's interesting that you spent two years, uh, self educating.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: Four hours a day. And I'm curious because this is something that I see a lot. And so you say two years and then you start doing it. Okay, let's say the first six months that you started doing the thing, the real estate.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker D: Yep.

Speaker A: Did you find that had you started, let's say a year and a half earlier, like maybe self educating for only six months or maybe only self educating for like two months, do you think like the two years saved any of your mistakes that you may have made or, or did it just hinder, like, the delay? Right. Like by starting two years later, you just delayed everything.

Speaker B: Two years.

Speaker A: I'm. I'm kind of curious for your perspective on this. I'll tell you why after.

Speaker D: Yeah, Aryeh, that is such a good question. Because I definitely overanalyze things. And what's funny is I became like an expert at the educational, the book aspect of it. But what's funny is I made all of the same mistakes initially that I read about previously. And I was internally, I was making exceptions for all of them. Like, oh, the contracts. The contractor's asking for a bunch of lump sum cash in person. Like right now, that's okay. You know, it's like, you know, he's a good guy. He looks, you know, that's a reputable man right there. And so I made all the mistakes that, that I learned about. But when you're actually doing it in the struggle and implementing it, like book smarts is great. Implementing it is a whole nother level of learning, and that's where I learned the most. I don't regret taking the time necessary to get educated because I think it was very crucial and important. But man, oh man, it's a different ballgame when you start implementing it.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, uh, it's funny, I think I want to say it's somewhere like episode 77, 78, something like that. I do an episode on why you're not seeing the progress that you're looking for while you are gaining the knowledge that you think you need. Right. And, uh, it comes down to. And it has nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with me has to do with everybody. Like when you go through the thing, I'm not saying not to get educated for before it and not to learn skills.

Speaker D: Get educated.

Speaker A: Yeah. But when you do the thing, the education level is exponential. Even if you read about the thing, like in your example, even if you didn't read about the thing or didn't watch about the thing or listen about the thing when you experience it. Like, I can think of so many times that, like, I've become this expert, but I didn't do the thing yet. And so I'm not really an expert. I just know a ton.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, like I can have a PhD worth of knowledge, but the knowledge doesn't translate into the result. Why don't you have the result that you're looking for? I think the title is something like that. Why you're not seeing the results. It's because you're not doing the thing. You're Learning the thing. You're not doing the thing. And so, uh, it's, uh, it's validating, right? Like to see someone else, right. Who spent two years, four hours a day. I mean, think about how much you've got. Your 10,000 hours, so to speak. Right. But, like, no, you didn't. You progress much more once you started doing the thing. Okay, so you get into real estate. You're doing real estate. Um, and so talk me through a little bit about what kind of real estate. You're doing Single family homes. You're doing multifamily homes. What are you doing?

Speaker D: Yeah, residential, multifamily. The BRRRR strategy. So buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. Uh, so I have no money into any of my deals. They all cash flow very well. And, um, and I. I use credit to be able to do so. Because, remember, I. I didn't have any money. You know, I saved up $30,000 when I was in. After paying off the renovation.

Speaker A: The apartment.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. When the one that I exploded, um, I saved up about $30,000 afterwards working in two restaurants, which was great, but it's still 30 grand. Doesn't go that far, you know, And I was trying to buy something in California at first, but I'm going against savage, you know, real estate investors. Very savvy. They know what they're doing, very well educated. And so I started looking in other states. I finally invested in, uh, about 3,000 miles away in Ohio.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker D: Out of all places.

Speaker A: So if you don't mind, let's kind of take a little tangential trip on the BRRRR strategy just for a second. Right, so you. You got $30,000 and we talk about multifamily. Um, are we talking about like a four plex type of thing, or are we talking. Okay, so, yeah, residential.

Speaker D: So all four units and under, for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: I have some single family as well. Yep.

Speaker A: Okay, so when. When you're doing this and you're like, hey, I've got $30,000, that's not enough for a down payment or 20% down, like traditional things. And you're like, oh, I used credit, or I did the brrrr, I had no money. Right. Like that. Again, someone who's listening, obviously they need to do the thing if they want to, you know, progress. But just like, in that first aspect, what is the mentality that that person needs to feel comfortable saying, okay, I buy this thing. I'm not really sure how I buy it with no money. And then I'm going to you know, fix it up and then I'm going to, you know, rent it out and then I'm going to refinance it. Like if I'm just putting myself mentally in that place, what is that? I guess the one biggest hurdle that that person has to get over to just take that leap and you know, I don't know, put themselves at risk. Like where is the biggest risk for that person and they need to hurdle?

Speaker D: Yeah, I think for everybody it could slightly be different. I know for me it was trying to wrap my head around like the location and. Cause I knew the strategy, I knew what I wanted to do. So it was the location and then the money aspect because I didn't have any right. And I was trying to go to the banks and get loans and they're like, uh, dude, you don't make much money. M. On paper it's all like tips right. From restaurants. And so I wasn't qualifying for much. And therefore I started looking in Ohio because it just being very blunt, it's cheaper. It made me uh, feel more comfortable and I could like, hey, I can afford a couple hundred dollar a month mortgage. And so that's what I looked into. I was buying distressed properties in not the best neighborhoods and I was paying cash for it. But I figured out a way, you know, once the banks were denying me, I figured out a way to utilize credit. I had certain credit cards that had high limits, 60, 65,000 in credit lines. And I was just asking myself, like, how can I actually turn this credit card into cash so that I can buy the real estate and then complete the remodel. And then in 612 months, I'll be able to just cash out, refi get 70% of it. And uh, that should be enough to be able to have no money into it or very little so I can pay off the cards and repeat it. And that's just what I started doing. But I would say for everybody, it's slightly different. For me, I think the finance piece helped bring peace of mind once I figured out the credit game.

Speaker A: Okay, got it. So we're gonna, we're gonna move to that, that credit game because before we kind of get into the credit side of it and what the business is today and when you started doing this, right. So you do your first one in Ohio.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you're like, okay, this kind of works, right? Like I, I got a tenant like so first and foremost, like, well, that's what I was gonna say. Like you're out in California and you're investing In Ohio. Walk me. Like, what's going on? Like, do you fly out there? Do you hire a property manager? Like, what's going on?

Speaker D: Yeah. So basically, I did as much due diligence as I could about the location out here locally in San Diego. And then, you know, I'm making phone calls, I'm building relationships, uh, you know, long distance. Eventually I find some brokers, uh, real estate agents as well, and wholesalers that I'm trying to build relationships and get them to send me deals. I was, you know, going through a list of 200 properties. I quickly start narrowing it down, and then I decide to book a trip over there to view it in person and, um, and meet those, you know, shake hands with the relationships that I built. I quickly start narrowing down the list, and I got down to five properties, uh, that I was very interested in. I offered on three of them or four, and, uh, and I got two accepted. And so I bought a single family house at first, and then two months later to the day, I bought a triplex. And I made every mistake under the sun that I should have learned in the books that I was reading, you know, so I made every mistake on the first one on the single family house. Took a year, five contractors later, way more over budget because I got screwed over and mismanaged. Uh, but the triplex saved me. And because it had one tenant already, I had to fill another tenant, uh, in there. Um, started cash flowing. It cash flowed on day one, but I only had to put about seven grand into it quick and easy. I had, uh, somebody helping me manage it, and it. It worked out very well, and it kept me afloat and gave me hope as well for the first one and just the process. And once I stabilized the first one, you know, we. We just started repeating the process. And it. It was incredible. You know, I bought four or five properties in a year, taking it back to the banks. You know, I started dialing it in a lot better.

Speaker A: Okay, and you were doing solely by yourself. Like, you didn't. There was no. Okay. So you're going back and forth, though, to Ohio, I assume, every so often then, right?

Speaker D: It was quarterly. Yeah, every. Every three to four months. I was flying over there, um, building. See, this is another mistake that I did in some cases. I got, you know, one property. I remember getting a very high paint estimate. And so I decided, well, I'm going to go over there and I'm going to put on my painter outfit and I'm going to paint with, uh, with my girlfriend at the time. Uh, she's my fiance now, but, you know, the trouble I put that woman through. God. Uh, but it's just mind blowing because never a painter. Don't know what I'm doing. And it's a huge property, and I thought, cool, I'll knock it out. In one week, I got not even a quarter of the way through. Still had to hire somebody on. But my biggest learning curve right there was, hey, that week that I was there, I should have been shaking hands, meeting people, getting estimates, building my network over there. That would have. I could have got a better quote, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.

Speaker D: And so that was a big learning piece there that I was like, man, I can't be working in the business. I need to work on the business so that I can build the relationships and rely on the right people.

Speaker A: Right, okay. More of the who, not the how. Right.

Speaker D: Yes, exactly.

Speaker A: So you kind of now are, uh, let's call it scaling it up.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker A: Like, you've got a few properties. You said you bought four or five inside that year. And, and so what's. What's going on now? You're like, hey, I'm going to become real estate king. Or like, what's going on in the brain?

Speaker D: No, my. I was still working restaurant jobs. Um, yeah, crazy. Uh, and then just taking like, on

Speaker A: a monthly basis, though. Were the houses cash flowing more than your job?

Speaker D: That's what happened. See, that's. Eventually it got to a point where I'm making $5,000 a month just off rental income. And I felt. I felt like the man. I was like, boom, the first is here, baby. Guess who's getting paid? You know? And so that feeling, having no money into any of m my deals, the new mortgage was like 300 bucks a month, but it would rent out for a thousand. Like, that was incredible. And so once that started taking place, I was so stubborn, though. I still didn't quit my job, you know, and eventually I had to get fired because I was spending more time on my phone and managing the properties and my mind just not being in the, like, restaurant, restaurants in my business. I wanted to grow and scale my business. Right. I started. Actually, uh, I got fired and I landed into an opportunity where I. I got into real estate out here in San Diego. I made 160,000 off the first flip, and, uh, it just started snowballing.

Speaker A: Gotcha. Okay, so you're doing the real estate still in Ohio. You're starting to. It sounds like wholesale or flip homes a little bit. I don't know if you're fixing and flipping or if you're just kind of wholesaling and flipping the contract. And by the way, at the time, is your girlfriend working with you or is she doing her job or whatever?

Speaker D: She was, she was working in uh, like dominoes. She did uh, like little dead end job type of things. And then eventually I sold her on the vision. I'm telling you, my sales skills were on point. And so I sold her on the vision. She went all in with me, um, because we started teaching other people how to do the same thing with credit cards. Because we were networking a bunch. Everybody raises their hand saying, hey, I

Speaker A: want to do that.

Speaker D: How are you doing that, Brandon? 3,000 miles away. And I, you know, they all want to be in real estate, but they didn't have the capital for it. And everybody's plan that we ran into was like, well, once I make money over here, then I'll take the money and put it into real estate. And I'm looking at them and their situation. I'm like, that looks like it's going to take a long time, five, 10 years. And what if it doesn't work out? What if you don't make money? It's like I didn't have any money. I used credit cards. So I started showing people how they could do the same. And that was very, the initial. I mean it still is today, but it's the reason why we do things. But it's very, the, the gratitude from that and seeing um, people sick. It's, it feels good succeeding for yourself and then blessing your family. But when you see somebody else cut the learning curve and get better results than you, it's like, oh my God, that was incredible. That's awesome.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, I totally hear that.

Speaker D: Very fulfilling.

Speaker A: Yes. Anytime I teach, I know exactly what you're talking about. The, the aha that they have, the action that they put into place that you've taught. And you say I did nothing. All I did is I show you the way and you did it. Like that is just a, uh, tremendous. And it makes you realize like why people want to be teachers. Yes. They don't necessarily make a lot of money, but understanding like what the educational model could look like. Right. Yeah.

Speaker D: And it's the education model so broken.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: Like you were saying earlier. I mean I was thinking to myself like in college, a lot of business teachers are well knowledged on it, but they don't even own a business. So how could you teach on running a business? It's, it's a scary thing, right?

Speaker A: Yeah. No, definitely. I mean I think some of the better entrepreneurial teachers, the teachers who teach some sort of entrepreneurial, whatever school they're in, they a lot of times come from the business world and this is like their hey, I've made it and, and I'm an adjunct professor or I've made it and I'm like, I'm just giving back. But your core business teachers, most of them are just professors and ah, exactly to that point, like no knock on them, but they haven't gone through the

Speaker D: experience per se, the hands on.

Speaker A: Exactly. So help me understand, right? So someone comes to you and they're like, okay, I want to do this. And you're like, okay, we could do this whole thing with the credit cards given where we are today. Right. So this is the end of January 2024 when we're recording this. Interest rates are, call it, you know, 7 and a 3/4 to 8% for a single family home. You're going to have to, you know, refi later, but whatever. Prices are pretty stagnant because people don't want to sell really because they're sitting on 2, 3, 4, 5% interest rate, um, homes. Do you feel that today? Obviously when you started it was a different time, different markets, different everything, but someone comes to you today. Do you feel that the opportunity that you had when you started may look different, but the opportunity is just as viable and just as interesting as it was when you started?

Speaker D: It definitely looks different than when I started, um, but I think it's almost more opportunity now than ever. And I say that for a couple reasons. Like you mentioned, in the last five, ten years, uh, about 70, 80% of America has already cashed out, refinanced or lowered their rates. Right? So everybody's got really low rates. But keep this in mind, if you can make a deal work today, it's going to bless you in the future. And there are deals out there. There is a, uh, supply, uh, and demand type of issue here going on because there's not enough inventory. But there's people that go through everyday life problems, death, divorce, you know, whatever it may be and change, moving jobs, whatever it is. So people are selling and so just getting a good deal if you can make the numbers work today. And it's going to bless you in the long run because let's face it, if you are doom's gloom type of person and you're like, oh, interest rates are just going to get worse, great, you just locked in an awesome deal in comparison to a couple years, if you're more optimistic and you're keeping up with the rates. You know, the Fed has already announced next year they're going to lower it six times. If they lower it, you can refinance later and save even more money. So if it works out today, it will work out tomorrow even better.

Speaker A: Interesting. So it's funny because I think, uh, being involved in the real estate space, I think a lot of people would agree with you, right? Like, if you can, what they would call pencil a deal, right? Like, if you can underwrite a deal that makes sense today at a 7 1/2 to 8% rate, or even a full 8% rate, guess what? It's going to look a whole lot better later. Now, granted, no one's saying that the appreciation of the house will look anything like it did in the past few years. You could see a, you know, decline, uh, in value of 20%. But it won't matter if you're. If you're going with a cash flow strategy anyway, because unless you sell, you don't take that.

Speaker D: Force deals. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Never sell. And, uh, that's your biggest regret, selling nine times out of 10. And you just don't want to force a deal. Uh, there's so many. There are opportunities out there, networking with the right wholesalers and people that can send you good deals. Like, and as long as you can perform, you don't need to force anything.

Speaker A: Okay, so you mentioned in your business that you're like, okay, you started flipping this stuff, and then you started teaching. People started coming to you and teaching. So at what point, like, I don't know how many years ago we're talking, like, at what point are you like, okay, I have my real estate cash flow. I have. If I'm still doing some flips, okay? But now people are like, hey, I want to do this. And you mentally are like, m. I want to help, like, you get that feeling. But even before that, you're like, is there a business here? Is there not, like, what's going through your mind? And, like, how do you navigate all that?

Speaker D: Yeah, so how I navigated it was I started real estate in 2015. Uh, 2017. I started investing out here locally in San Diego. I left my job and, uh, I had a lot more people I was acknowledging, like, oh, you want to learn this? So let me just take you under my wing and help you out. So I just gave a bunch of my time, and I didn't think anything of it to get compensated, but I started seeing people get, like, with no, no education whatsoever. On real estate. Didn't take the two years that I did at all. Had no idea. And I just gave them simple instructions. And within their first two, three weeks, I had numerous people getting their first deals. And then they're like, oh, Brandon, I just got a deal. Now what? And so I would take them through the next process and then credit and, you know, the whole, whole ball game, basically. And it started being very fulfilling, but it also started taking up a lot of my time. And I started, you know, I basically, I went into this mastermind group. Um, it was down in Cancun. There was 180 members down there. And as I was networking, everybody loved my story of using credit to be able to buy real estate. Had 30 plus people bring up my name and my strategy to the owners that were running the event. And they came up to me and asked me like, hey, Brandon, could you just come on stage and talk about credit for a little bit? That exposure, just that one hour Q& a session of credit, uh, in front of that many people, High level business owners, real estate investors, uh, I ended up getting 20 people that wanted to pay me five grand afterwards to help them. And I was like.

Speaker A: And this was the first time you were going to be charging for people for you to help people, right? Because till now you were just kind of like doing it.

Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. So it was, it was mind blowing. And I was like, the, that's incredible, you know, because I used to make 30 grand a year off of restaurants, you know. Yeah. So it, it was just different. But then I basically turned myself into a slave. I was doing 12 hour, you know, days, uh, or more and one on one Zoom calls where I was answering the same thing over and over and I felt like a broken record. And after one month of that, I was like, you know, I'm, I'm freaking out, you know, um, so I paused it. I took a full month off of recording content and turning it into a course. And then I started switching up the model and basically putting everybody into a group so that I could save my time and I could help out more people in a group setting. Like iron sharpens iron. Uh, their questions can help out somebody else. I don't need to be a broken record. So that was a pivotal change for me.

Speaker A: That totally sounds like it. Real interesting question for you because I know everyone has a different mode and modality about it. Did you come to that realization on your own or did you have, like, at that point hire a coach slash mentor to point that out and say you got to do this. A one to many versus a one to one.

Speaker D: No, man, I did it. I was literally like, uh, if I do one, if I answer this question one more time, I'm going to freak out. Like, I was going to explode. And it wasn't there, right?

Speaker A: No, it was. It's just repeating the same thing over and over. I totally get that.

Speaker D: It was 30 days in a row of helping 20 plus people, like, asking the same question. I was like, I. I'm going to. I'm going to blow up, you know? So I just started writing down all these questions. The good part is I just had a full month of 12 hours every day answering the same thing over and over again that I got. You know, when I went to make the content, I knocked out, you know, 50, 70 videos of. Of good content for a course. Within, like, two weeks, another two weeks editing, and, um, and then we build out a course, and it just. It changed everything. And that was right before COVID Oh, so perfect timing. Yeah. Like I said, favor in my life, man. I definitely have it. I acknowledge it. But, um, just some wild, wild changes of events for sure.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: So let me ask you something. When you're doing, um, for someone who's listening is, like, now, like, intrigued, and they're like, hey, what were, like, the five most common questions that you kept getting over and over and over again that, you know, obviously people can learn the whole course or do something with you, but, like, what are the five most common questions that people ask that you're like, uh, oh, these are things that, like, you didn't know, we didn't know. Like, someone who's getting into it is like, hey, there's something I don't know. I know I don't know it, but, like, what are these, you know, these. These top five questions that people ask around credit, especially if they're going to use the credit to leverage it to, uh, you know, to kind of use the money.

Speaker D: Yeah. So many people are like, you know, how do I, once I get the credit, how do I liquidate it into cash? How does that even work? Can you really buy real estate with credit cards? You know, uh, there's so many myths out there about credit in general, which it's very sad. So some people think that, you know, you have to pay interest on your credit cards to help boost up your score. Totally inaccurate. People are wondering why their score is going up and down or how even the banks and lenders or bureaus are judging their credit. So understanding the boxes that make up a person's FICO score. And there's actually almost 40 different metrics on how banks and lenders are judging each individual. And so nobody knows any of that. So I always look at it as like I truly have the rules to the game. And like we are, we're playing real life Monopoly is what I always say. Except nobody knows the rules of the game. So they're constantly failing. They're not collecting their, their money in the middle or like, you know, they're 200 once they pass go. But I know the rules. So when I teach somebody the rules, it's like the aha moment and it's like, oh, wow. Or what they believe to be true about financial literacy or credit. It's almost exactly the opposite in many cases.

Speaker A: So when you started in this, right, you said you spent those two years, four hours a day. Is that where you learned the rules? Was that the time period or did you actually learn the rules on the job, so to speak?

Speaker D: No, no, it was from uh, I was studying real estate and then eventually I got to the point of like the finance part and that's when I started going down the rabbit hole of credit.

Speaker A: Got it. Okay, that makes total sense.

Speaker D: And then again, brother, I made every mistake under the sun of learning the hard way, losing over a million dollars in credit lines and over nine bank relationships. So it was a nightmare. But um, so from my learning curves, ideally the whole goal is any members joining Credit Counsel Elite, they don't need to go through the same that I have.

Speaker A: Got it. No, that, that makes total sense. So when you work with someone now, right, like so obviously you, you put into a course after that mastermind, right? You did the one on one. You're like, holy crap. Yeah, broke it down into a course. And so now people can obviously learn on their own on um, demand type of education, right through, through, you know, your courses and stuff like that, you probably have some things that are a little bit higher touch where you can work with you directly. But what would you say, like in terms of the credit thesis, in terms of the money, right? So you, you have the real estate background. Do you find though that, okay, let's say the average person who is not in, in real estate, right, there's the opportunity to get into real estate with, with kind of improving your credit. There's probably the opportunity to just like better the rates that you're paying on whatever your normalized, let's call it interests are if you have a mortgage or if you have a car payment or anything like that. But what are the other options, like if someone's like, hey, I don't want to do this for real estate, or I'm still scared of real estate, or I don't, you know, whatever, fill in the blank. The fear that is holding them back. Right. Are there other things that people can kind of leverage this to do?

Speaker D: Oh, uh, for sure. So there's so many ways. And what I always like to refer back to is when we're young kids, we dream about all these different things we want to do. Right. As we start getting older and adults, you know, there's, there's financial struggles. There's, um, you know, we stop dreaming because of the pain points that we're going through. And so some people start losing their creativity, just plain and simple. And I want to remove that pain point of the money aspect, show them that, hey, there's more. There's an abundance of money out there. I can show you how to get it, and once you get it, you don't need to use it. But wait for those opportunities, wait for that creativity to start spending again. We've had people, uh, become hard money lenders, private money lenders, and totally outside of real estate, but secured by real estate, um, life insurance. You know, with, uh, infinite banking strategies, people have done crypto, people have done stocks, people have done turo, short, uh, term rental. So many different aspects. E comm as well. It really comes down to what they're passionate about and excited for or their business. If you had More Capital at 0% interest for the next 24 months, what would you do with it? Like, we don't allow buying the $20,000 Gucci sweatshirt. The liabilities. We, we only.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: You know, you got to buy the assets that are going to make you a strong roi. For God's sakes. Nowadays you could put it in a CD and make 5%. You know, it's like, uh, there's many ways to get, to be able to put it to work. But I would say a majority of, uh, our members coming in, they're jumping into real estate or growing and scaling their real estate business. And I recommend everybody, even if you're not passionate about it, if you don't want to go all into real estate, I still encourage everybody out there to get at least three properties. If you get three properties, have little to no money in them, the tax benefits, the cash flow, like that will be enough to start helping you get out of that rat race in many ways.

Speaker A: Got it. It's very interesting because I think the credit game has a lot of Psychology and mental fear that whatever your, your deeply rooted beliefs are, right? Like people who, who've lived through parents who went through bankruptcy or had no money because of credit card debt. And to the point you made, right, like we don't allow the Gucci sweatshirt, right? Because there's a natural association of using credit cards for consumable, you know, discretionary spending, you know, useful, wasteful kind of things, depreciating assets, all, all the different things, right. And versus, ah, depreciating liabilities, probably.

Speaker D: Yeah. Liabilities, yeah.

Speaker A: So, um, I think there's probably like a psychological barrier that people have to get by that, you know, that can't be true. That's gotta be wrong, right? Like there's all these deeply, uh, rooted beliefs and then you have a lot of people who are like, what the hell, screw it. Yes, let's do it. They have no, they either have no ill conceptions in their minds about it or they're like, whatever, I have nothing to lose. Right? And so it's the person in the middle who's like, I have a, I have a pretty good life, right? I'm, I'm uh, a uh, 650 to 720 credit score. I'm, you know, I have a job or I have a small business that does well. Like, why would I want to put myself at risk? I think the unknowns, the things they don't know about this are probably the things that hold them back. So I know I asked like, what are, what are like the three to five most common questions, but like, what's the pitch to the guy in that middle, right? Someone who's like, what's this, these unknowns that like you can unlock for them even if it's not real estate or whatever it is. Like, what could they do if they improved their credit or just got this, this 0% APR? Like what are simple, low effort. I think that's the most important thing, right? Like nobody wants to leave their job or create a new job, right? What are those simplest things for those people?

Speaker D: Yeah. What I would say first off is there is a huge difference between good debt and bad debt. And if it's good enough for the mega rich people, the top 1 percenters, let's face it, they know how to leverage debt and good debt. And it's also exactly what the banks do. See, we put all of our monies in the bank and they end up giving us uh, zero percent back, basically. Right? Um, at the end of the day it's 0.00. Like it's next to nothing, but they put it to work nine times over and they average anywhere from 500 to 3,000%. That's, that's a big ROI that they're getting and they're, they're using our money to do so. You know, you can put all your money in the bank. They don't ask any questions. When you go to take it out, 20, 30, 50 grand, they're going to say, whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you, you know, did you uh, schedule this? You got to wait two, three weeks. It's like, what, you know, that's my money.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: So, uh, so that's an issue right there. But it's understanding how they're doing it and flipping the script on the banks because, because you can get this is very doable, it's very possible. And if it's good enough for the rich and the mega rich, you know, and the banks, like, it should be good enough for you. This isn't a Dave Ramsey approach, you know.

Speaker A: Um, Right, right.

Speaker D: It's again, if, if you don't have it is retraining the brain, you know, because a lot of, a lot of divorces happen because of fighting over finances. Right. So finances is a big thing. They're not teaching it in school. We need to get that foundation piece. It's crucial. And changing that mindset of hey, you know, you're not allowed to buy liabilities, but you are allowed to take this 0% interest and instead of using it for the full 18, 24 months, work out a, ah, uh, 3, 6 or 12 month type of investment opportunity with low risk that you can get a high reward and also have backup plans just in case, you know, that's financial literacy. To be able to budget properly and be able to put it to work. Um, there's really so many ways that they can capitalize on the, the funds. But um, one of the biggest fears behind people is hey, you know what, what am I going to do with it afterwards? Like, you don't have to use it. There's no cost to you getting the funding, you know.

Speaker A: No, definitely. That makes a lot of sense. Well, I appreciate all the insights and a lot of the behind the scenes around this and I'm sure there's, there's tons more to talk about. But being mindful of your time and our listeners, where can people find out more about you and about Credit Counsel Elite, uh, if they want to kind of explore that?

Speaker D: Yeah, I encourage people to check out our website. We have a quick 10, 15 minute video on there that explains a lot more in detail what the heck we do at Credit Counsel Elite. And afterwards, you can book a one on one call with either me or somebody on our team to go over your particular situation, where you're at, where you're looking to go, and uh, how we can help you get there. So That's Credit Counsel Elite.com. it's www.creditcounsel elite.com. but we teach people how to get up to 500,000 in funding at 0% interest. And it's typically, you know, you can do this within 30 to 90 days. We have a money back warranty in place and the 0% interest is up to 24 months.

Speaker A: Nice. Okay, well, everything, uh, the website, all the stuff will be in the show notes. So if you are driving and you can't check it out right now, go over to the show notes later and take a look. Thank you so much, Brandon for coming on. Really appreciate it and really appreciate all your insights.

Speaker D: Yeah, thank you.

Speaker A: Aryeh.

Speaker D: Ah, appreciate you uh, greatly. This was amazing. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thanks so much.

Speaker C: Thanks for listening to this episode of Inside the Lion's Den podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, please head over to itunes and leave us a review and subscribe as it really helps get this content out to more people who can benefit from it. Be sure to listen next time as I take you Inside the Lion's Den. If you think your business could use some deeper insights and want to learn more about working with me, head over to applytotheden.com today and find out more.