Michelle Beyo

1 00:00:15,439 - > 00:00:18,960 Thank you and welcome to another episode of FinTech Talks. 2 00:00:19,120 - > 00:00:22,399 And I'm here and so happy to be here with my friend Michelle 3 00:00:22,399 - > 00:00:26,000 Beo, founder and CEO of Finovator. 4 00:00:26,480 - > 00:00:28,079 Michelle, would you mind please introducing yourself? 5 00:00:28,399 - > 00:00:30,320 Yes, and Jeep, it's such a pleasure to be here. 6 00:00:30,640 - > 00:00:33,119 I'm Michelle Beo, CEO and founder of Finovator. 7 00:00:33,280 - > 00:00:36,320 I started the company seven years ago, largely because I 8 00:00:36,320 - > 00:00:39,039 realized I've touched different aspects of the future of 9 00:00:39,039 - > 00:00:42,240 finance, and not a lot of people fully understand the future of 10 00:00:42,240 - > 00:00:42,719 finance. 11 00:00:43,200 - > 00:00:45,840 So really started the organization to be a future of 12 00:00:45,840 - > 00:00:49,520 finance consultancy, trying to help companies get it to 13 00:00:49,520 - > 00:00:52,719 understand the future of finance and to enable it properly so 14 00:00:52,719 - > 00:00:56,560 that they can grow their reach and help their consumers really 15 00:00:56,799 - > 00:00:59,039 enable and touch the future of finance. 16 00:00:59,359 - > 00:01:02,960 And are there any particular types of organizations that you 17 00:01:02,960 - > 00:01:06,480 find really resonate with what you what you've been doing? 18 00:01:06,799 - > 00:01:10,400 Yeah, I think when I look about what I'm doing in the sense of 19 00:01:10,400 - > 00:01:13,599 growth and strategic growth across North America, helping 20 00:01:13,599 - > 00:01:16,719 some UK-based companies come into this market because it's 21 00:01:16,719 - > 00:01:20,079 slightly different than the European market regulatory-wise. 22 00:01:20,319 - > 00:01:24,799 Um, but it's such a like this market just really enjoys taking 23 00:01:24,799 - > 00:01:25,760 in new innovation. 24 00:01:25,920 - > 00:01:28,799 So I think it's it's helping them kind of grasp how to step 25 00:01:28,799 - > 00:01:29,439 into the US. 26 00:01:29,519 - > 00:01:30,879 What are the right panels? 27 00:01:30,959 - > 00:01:34,959 Uh, who are the right chief compliance fractional officers 28 00:01:34,959 - > 00:01:37,519 to get in touch with so that they come into the market 29 00:01:37,519 - > 00:01:38,079 properly? 30 00:01:38,239 - > 00:01:41,920 And then what are the right partnerships from fintechs to 31 00:01:41,920 - > 00:01:45,599 FPO accounts so that they're able to come in in the right way 32 00:01:45,920 - > 00:01:48,239 and then get the marketing and the growth happening? 33 00:01:48,400 - > 00:01:51,760 So really proud to have helped a couple of really important 34 00:01:51,760 - > 00:01:56,079 companies come into the US and then help some US companies with 35 00:01:56,079 - > 00:01:57,439 strategic growth as well. 36 00:01:57,519 - > 00:02:00,400 Um, because I I've helped with a lot of payment innovation coming 37 00:02:00,400 - > 00:02:02,000 from the prepaid space. 38 00:02:02,159 - > 00:02:06,159 Um, my background really is 20 years uh touching multiple 39 00:02:06,159 - > 00:02:07,040 different industries. 40 00:02:07,200 - > 00:02:10,800 So six years in telco, eight years in online shopping, three 41 00:02:10,800 - > 00:02:14,319 years in prepaid infrastructures, uh, and really 42 00:02:14,319 - > 00:02:16,719 helping when I realized that prepaid is kind of the 43 00:02:16,719 - > 00:02:20,000 innovation rail that is the backer to all these fintechs, 44 00:02:20,080 - > 00:02:22,879 and then did a year in digital identity and blockchain and then 45 00:02:22,879 - > 00:02:26,719 kicked off on my own, um, really helping companies realize that 46 00:02:26,719 - > 00:02:30,000 if they're gonna do payment innovation, they should also fix 47 00:02:30,000 - > 00:02:33,599 their onboarding infrastructure to authenticate and validate 48 00:02:33,599 - > 00:02:37,039 that they're dealing with the right consumer and that this 49 00:02:37,039 - > 00:02:38,479 consumer is the one applying. 50 00:02:38,879 - > 00:02:42,080 And now that their agent uh is also attached to them properly. 51 00:02:42,240 - > 00:02:45,919 So I think really understanding compliance and onboarding has 52 00:02:45,919 - > 00:02:50,240 become extremely crucial uh in this path of growth of fintech. 53 00:02:50,639 - > 00:02:53,680 That's quite a nice mixture of things that you bring to the 54 00:02:53,680 - > 00:02:54,159 table. 55 00:02:54,319 - > 00:02:58,479 And I've never heard the word onboarding more so than the last 56 00:02:59,360 - > 00:03:00,479 than the last year or so. 57 00:03:00,639 - > 00:03:03,360 I and what why is that what does that mean for you? 58 00:03:03,599 - > 00:03:06,719 Yeah, I think onboarding has always just been this KYC 59 00:03:06,719 - > 00:03:09,680 mandate uh to know your customer, and it's just 60 00:03:09,680 - > 00:03:10,879 something you had to do. 61 00:03:11,199 - > 00:03:15,280 But as we get into the world of deep fakes and really impressive 62 00:03:15,280 - > 00:03:17,840 AI, it becomes so much more crucial. 63 00:03:17,919 - > 00:03:21,680 It's not just a compliance check anymore, it's a validation that 64 00:03:21,680 - > 00:03:25,520 you're bringing on the right uh person and that you've KYC'd 65 00:03:25,520 - > 00:03:26,400 them properly. 66 00:03:26,639 - > 00:03:29,919 And once that onboarding is done, now you're seeing this 67 00:03:29,919 - > 00:03:33,759 need to do it again when they're about to do a transaction that 68 00:03:33,759 - > 00:03:37,599 is maybe over 5,000, uh, or if they're about to enable 69 00:03:37,599 - > 00:03:42,400 something that is not as a not a normal transaction, you're gonna 70 00:03:42,400 - > 00:03:44,960 want to double authenticate or be able to validate. 71 00:03:45,039 - > 00:03:47,680 So I think in a lot of countries they have digital identity, 72 00:03:47,919 - > 00:03:48,080 right? 73 00:03:48,240 - > 00:03:52,240 Like in India, Brazil, um, and there's just different formats 74 00:03:52,240 - > 00:03:55,280 of digital identity, but they help authenticate who you're 75 00:03:55,280 - > 00:03:55,840 dealing with. 76 00:03:56,000 - > 00:03:59,199 And because North America doesn't have that core digital 77 00:03:59,199 - > 00:04:02,960 identity, you're seeing a lot of solutions and players stepping 78 00:04:02,960 - > 00:04:06,719 in so that you can hit the signals to validate that this is 79 00:04:06,719 - > 00:04:10,479 a human and this is the human that is attempting to join my 80 00:04:10,479 - > 00:04:10,879 company. 81 00:04:10,960 - > 00:04:14,319 And because trust is the new currency, you know, you have to 82 00:04:14,319 - > 00:04:16,480 trust that they're the right party. 83 00:04:16,560 - > 00:04:19,360 Uh, and then you need to continue that trust and 84 00:04:19,360 - > 00:04:22,240 validation because there is a lot of bad actors, 85 00:04:22,480 - > 00:04:25,600 unfortunately, coming at from coming at the company from 86 00:04:25,600 - > 00:04:27,360 different angles in today's market. 87 00:04:27,600 - > 00:04:30,399 So I think you're hearing a lot of people starting to get really 88 00:04:30,399 - > 00:04:33,519 conscious that they have to have a really strong onboarding 89 00:04:33,519 - > 00:04:36,639 ecosystem, not just a compliance check, and they need to 90 00:04:36,639 - > 00:04:39,040 continuously validate to get them there. 91 00:04:39,439 - > 00:04:44,399 We in in terms of um identity and trust, you know, like as as 92 00:04:44,399 - > 00:04:47,199 you mentioned, it used to be just like you just do it once 93 00:04:47,279 - > 00:04:53,040 and you're like then you're like la la la la, yeah. 94 00:04:53,360 - > 00:04:58,800 And now it it's um it feels like the stakes are higher with um 95 00:04:59,120 - > 00:05:02,399 you you you're also an expert in open banking and you've done a 96 00:05:02,399 - > 00:05:02,959 lot of work there. 97 00:05:03,120 - > 00:05:07,600 Like, was there like is there sort of like uh synapse that 98 00:05:07,600 - > 00:05:11,360 connects the two that that sort of like in your own mental 99 00:05:11,360 - > 00:05:13,519 synapses that sort of came alive? 100 00:05:13,839 - > 00:05:14,639 Yeah, definitely. 101 00:05:14,720 - > 00:05:19,360 Um when I was leaving um the prepaid world, yeah, um, I 102 00:05:19,360 - > 00:05:23,279 actually helped uh a super app uh come into North America for 103 00:05:23,279 - > 00:05:26,879 their first test pilot to do a QR payment back in 2017. 104 00:05:27,199 - > 00:05:30,639 A, I didn't know what a super app was in 2017, and B, I didn't 105 00:05:30,639 - > 00:05:33,120 know what a QR payment was in 2017. 106 00:05:33,279 - > 00:05:37,279 And after enabling it at a major retailer and seeing the 107 00:05:37,279 - > 00:05:40,639 functionality of it all, I realized the future of finance 108 00:05:40,639 - > 00:05:42,560 in 2017 was living in Asia. 109 00:05:42,959 - > 00:05:45,600 Uh and we were kind of Kodak in North America. 110 00:05:45,680 - > 00:05:49,279 We're holding moats and not innovating at the same pace. 111 00:05:49,519 - > 00:05:54,959 And I got very concerned because large parts of our GDP come from 112 00:05:54,959 - > 00:05:57,120 financial um revenues. 113 00:05:57,439 - > 00:06:00,240 And if we're not gonna be at the forefront, that's really not 114 00:06:00,480 - > 00:06:01,120 ideal. 115 00:06:01,279 - > 00:06:04,879 Uh so thankfully, there's been steps like the Genius Act to get 116 00:06:04,879 - > 00:06:07,600 us to stable coins and open banking. 117 00:06:07,680 - > 00:06:08,720 Let's take a pause. 118 00:06:08,879 - > 00:06:13,439 Um, the reason I got so enamored with open banking was uh I was 119 00:06:13,439 - > 00:06:16,560 really when I jumped into digital identity, the company I 120 00:06:16,560 - > 00:06:20,079 worked for was focused on having consent on blockchain. 121 00:06:20,240 - > 00:06:24,720 They weren't using blockchain for tokenized like dollars uh or 122 00:06:24,720 - > 00:06:26,959 utilizing it um from that perspective. 123 00:06:27,120 - > 00:06:31,120 They were utilizing it as an audit trail uh so that once an 124 00:06:31,120 - > 00:06:35,519 KYC was done, it was validated and the consent was posted onto 125 00:06:35,519 - > 00:06:38,319 the blockchain, which was unchangeable, uh, for the 126 00:06:38,319 - > 00:06:41,759 regulators to basically have a backdoor to check that consent 127 00:06:41,759 - > 00:06:42,399 was valid. 128 00:06:42,560 - > 00:06:45,120 Uh and I didn't know anything about blockchain or digital 129 00:06:45,120 - > 00:06:45,600 identity. 130 00:06:45,759 - > 00:06:50,720 So I jumped into this role like two feet forward to try and 131 00:06:50,720 - > 00:06:54,879 figure out what was both of these technologies, how are they 132 00:06:54,879 - > 00:06:56,480 working together and why did they matter? 133 00:06:56,720 - > 00:07:00,399 And then I learned about open banking happening pretty much 134 00:07:00,399 - > 00:07:06,160 the same time, 2017, 18 in Europe, and about data ownership 135 00:07:06,399 - > 00:07:10,240 and the fact that you were able to port your data or own your 136 00:07:10,240 - > 00:07:10,639 data. 137 00:07:10,879 - > 00:07:14,959 And because I come from telco, um, and I've come from, you 138 00:07:14,959 - > 00:07:18,879 know, this telecom space where in 1999 I was selling three-year 139 00:07:18,879 - > 00:07:22,240 plans and you couldn't leave the telco unless you wanted to leave 140 00:07:22,240 - > 00:07:22,879 your phone number. 141 00:07:23,360 - > 00:07:25,600 And people got pretty attached to their phone numbers, like 142 00:07:25,680 - > 00:07:26,560 that's your identity. 143 00:07:26,720 - > 00:07:30,079 People back in 1999 actually memorized most people's phone 144 00:07:30,079 - > 00:07:30,560 numbers. 145 00:07:30,800 - > 00:07:35,360 So when that got mandated to be a number portability perspective 146 00:07:35,439 - > 00:07:39,439 back in like let depending on the country, back in 2012 or 147 00:07:39,439 - > 00:07:43,759 2015, and those telcos who didn't want to have a backdoor 148 00:07:43,759 - > 00:07:47,439 API to import the number and give the ownership to the 149 00:07:47,439 - > 00:07:49,920 consumer was regulated and mandated. 150 00:07:50,160 - > 00:07:52,079 That was a freedom perspective. 151 00:07:52,240 - > 00:07:56,000 Like we got to own our phone number uh and take it with us 152 00:07:56,000 - > 00:07:58,480 for the rest of our life and choose our service provider. 153 00:07:58,800 - > 00:08:00,399 And that really resonated with me. 154 00:08:00,480 - > 00:08:03,360 And then when I learnt about open banking having that same 155 00:08:03,360 - > 00:08:06,879 mandate uh in allowing me to take my financial data and let 156 00:08:06,879 - > 00:08:10,720 it work for me and let it come with me along my journey versus 157 00:08:10,720 - > 00:08:13,839 it being owned by my service provider, that became like a 158 00:08:13,839 - > 00:08:16,639 passion point uh where I was like, this is freedom. 159 00:08:17,040 - > 00:08:20,800 Um, and and I just really wanted to figure out how can I help 160 00:08:20,800 - > 00:08:22,879 enable this freedom for consumers. 161 00:08:23,040 - > 00:08:23,199 Yeah. 162 00:08:23,360 - > 00:08:26,560 So I'm the president of the open finance network in Canada, yeah, 163 00:08:26,800 - > 00:08:30,160 but I'm also on a lot of panels around the world at Open Banking 164 00:08:30,160 - > 00:08:33,759 Expo and and FinTech Meetup, uh, really talking about open 165 00:08:33,759 - > 00:08:36,399 banking and beyond open banking to open data. 166 00:08:36,480 - > 00:08:40,000 Yeah, because I I don't like just talking about open banking. 167 00:08:40,399 - > 00:08:43,360 It's just a use case in an open data ecosystem. 168 00:08:43,440 - > 00:08:44,080 Yeah, right. 169 00:08:44,159 - > 00:08:47,759 So once you get access to own your data or at least port your 170 00:08:47,759 - > 00:08:52,240 data, it can enable power for you in open energy, in open 171 00:08:52,240 - > 00:08:56,559 telco, uh, in open banking, in open finance, and even in open 172 00:08:56,559 - > 00:08:57,120 AI. 173 00:08:57,200 - > 00:08:57,440 Yeah. 174 00:08:57,679 - > 00:09:01,440 Just because one AI system gets to know me under one platform, I 175 00:09:01,440 - > 00:09:04,960 should have the right to port my data to a different AI model if 176 00:09:04,960 - > 00:09:08,480 I so choose to not want to be aligned to that company anymore. 177 00:09:08,639 - > 00:09:10,639 You know, why should they own my data? 178 00:09:10,799 - > 00:09:14,879 That's insights that I should be able to port with me. 179 00:09:15,679 - > 00:09:16,559 It makes a ton of sense. 180 00:09:16,639 - > 00:09:20,639 And I I was, you know, just uh two days ago, I was in DC at a 181 00:09:20,639 - > 00:09:24,000 closed door session with a couple of congressmen, the top 182 00:09:24,000 - > 00:09:29,919 regulators, and and we were and the topic of portability came up 183 00:09:30,080 - > 00:09:32,320 very strongly in the AI discussion. 184 00:09:33,039 - > 00:09:36,320 And and how how should you know, obviously there's a lot going on 185 00:09:36,320 - > 00:09:40,720 with AI and it's like hard to keep up, like, but um and 186 00:09:40,799 - > 00:09:44,799 infrastructure is a critical part of whatever we do with AI. 187 00:09:45,120 - > 00:09:49,039 Like how how should companies think about what they do or how 188 00:09:49,200 - > 00:09:51,519 they manage their data in this new AI world? 189 00:09:51,840 - > 00:09:54,000 Yeah, I I think that's such a good question. 190 00:09:54,159 - > 00:09:57,519 Um, I really think people should have an AI policy at their 191 00:09:57,519 - > 00:09:58,000 company. 192 00:09:58,159 - > 00:10:00,960 They should write one, telling their staff and having a meeting 193 00:10:01,039 - > 00:10:04,320 saying, look, this is the AI platform we've chosen as a 194 00:10:04,320 - > 00:10:04,639 company. 195 00:10:05,039 - > 00:10:08,559 Please don't use your personal AI platforms. 196 00:10:08,799 - > 00:10:12,159 Anything to do with this company has to be put on this platform, 197 00:10:12,240 - > 00:10:13,440 which we're paying for. 198 00:10:13,679 - > 00:10:16,559 We need you to redact information before you utilize 199 00:10:16,559 - > 00:10:16,799 it. 200 00:10:16,960 - > 00:10:19,360 Know that once IP is gone, it is gone. 201 00:10:19,440 - > 00:10:22,639 It is your responsibility as our employee to ensure you don't 202 00:10:22,639 - > 00:10:25,919 gift it anything uh that can't be taken back. 203 00:10:26,159 - > 00:10:29,759 So I don't think that honest discussion is being had and it 204 00:10:29,759 - > 00:10:33,360 needs to be had sooner than later because AI is eating all 205 00:10:33,360 - > 00:10:37,200 of our data, especially small businesses who don't know this 206 00:10:37,200 - > 00:10:37,600 fact. 207 00:10:37,759 - > 00:10:41,440 So some AI cleanliness, I think, needs to be part of 2026 208 00:10:41,759 - > 00:10:44,480 planning, um, as well as less data. 209 00:10:44,720 - > 00:10:48,159 Like, I don't think that you should be pouring mass amounts 210 00:10:48,159 - > 00:10:50,879 of data into an infrastructure that you're not sure what the 211 00:10:50,879 - > 00:10:52,240 cost is going to be long term. 212 00:10:52,639 - > 00:10:57,039 If you uh transition too much of your business to AI, but you're 213 00:10:57,039 - > 00:10:59,679 unaware of what the cost of these platforms will be when 214 00:10:59,679 - > 00:11:04,320 they're no longer freemium, you could be in a very challenging 215 00:11:04,320 - > 00:11:07,200 position, especially if the data is not portable. 216 00:11:07,679 - > 00:11:11,919 So if you've you could get vendor locked, uh and that could 217 00:11:11,919 - > 00:11:15,759 just be a cost that your board didn't realize is going to be 218 00:11:15,759 - > 00:11:18,480 embedded into your business from here forth. 219 00:11:18,720 - > 00:11:22,320 So I I think people should be cautious on how much they push 220 00:11:22,320 - > 00:11:23,039 to AI. 221 00:11:23,200 - > 00:11:26,240 I definitely think they should use AI, but they should pick a 222 00:11:26,240 - > 00:11:28,879 platform, make sure they're paying for it, and make sure 223 00:11:28,879 - > 00:11:31,759 they have a data strategy to put the least amount of data 224 00:11:31,759 - > 00:11:34,960 possible to get the most effectiveness and insights out, 225 00:11:35,039 - > 00:11:36,720 but without sharing too much. 226 00:11:36,960 - > 00:11:37,200 Yeah. 227 00:11:37,440 - > 00:11:39,679 If you're not paying for the product, you are the product, 228 00:11:39,840 - > 00:11:40,080 right? 229 00:11:40,559 - > 00:11:43,840 Such a great fact that not everyone thinks about very 230 00:11:43,840 - > 00:11:44,320 often. 231 00:11:44,720 - > 00:11:48,240 I'd much rather pay and have an expense and know that there 232 00:11:48,240 - > 00:11:49,759 maybe is some data privacy. 233 00:11:50,000 - > 00:11:53,840 But let's be honest, there's no standard stating that I own my 234 00:11:53,840 - > 00:11:58,720 data in AI, or that I have the right to port it in AI, um, or 235 00:11:58,720 - > 00:12:03,679 that they're protecting my data in let's say in a way that is 236 00:12:03,679 - > 00:12:07,919 zero knowledge proof to prove to me that they're not utilizing my 237 00:12:07,919 - > 00:12:10,639 data in a way that I don't want them to. 238 00:12:11,200 - > 00:12:15,200 And something I wrote about in my book that's coming out, um, 239 00:12:15,360 - > 00:12:18,399 it's called Mastering the Future of Finance, and it's with Wiley 240 00:12:18,559 - > 00:12:21,200 uh publishing, it's coming out September 22nd. 241 00:12:21,360 - > 00:12:24,480 Uh, I put down like the 10 things that I think you should 242 00:12:24,480 - > 00:12:26,720 do to try and protect yourself data-wise. 243 00:12:27,039 - > 00:12:29,919 And especially on your phone, if you're using an AI model 244 00:12:30,000 - > 00:12:32,879 personally or professionally, turn off Feed the Algorithm. 245 00:12:33,120 - > 00:12:36,559 It automatically pops up as part of you downloading the app. 246 00:12:36,960 - > 00:12:37,600 But why? 247 00:12:38,000 - > 00:12:39,840 Why do you need to feed their algorithm? 248 00:12:40,159 - > 00:12:42,639 Uh, especially if you're on a paid version, even if you're 249 00:12:42,639 - > 00:12:43,279 not, why? 250 00:12:43,440 - > 00:12:45,360 Why should you be feeding their algorithm? 251 00:12:45,519 - > 00:12:49,919 And also, I would turn off a lot of the AI functions that are 252 00:12:49,919 - > 00:12:52,799 trying to make your apps more personalized. 253 00:12:53,120 - > 00:12:55,840 That just means that they're able to follow your behaviors. 254 00:12:56,399 - > 00:12:59,840 I think less exposure where possible and having this data 255 00:12:59,840 - > 00:13:01,440 cleanliness perspective. 256 00:13:01,600 - > 00:13:03,039 I'm trying to teach my kids. 257 00:13:03,120 - > 00:13:05,919 Yeah, they don't care so much, but I feel like we need to 258 00:13:05,919 - > 00:13:10,240 either get a human data right that is an ISO standard on a 259 00:13:10,240 - > 00:13:13,679 global level, that it's then hopefully utilize like data 260 00:13:13,679 - > 00:13:18,240 privacy uh as a like a privacy by design ISO standard that just 261 00:13:18,240 - > 00:13:22,480 came out last year, written by a Canadian, uh, our former privacy 262 00:13:22,480 - > 00:13:25,840 commissioner for Ontario of three terms wrote privacy by 263 00:13:25,840 - > 00:13:26,320 design. 264 00:13:26,559 - > 00:13:29,039 It is now um an ISO standard. 265 00:13:29,279 - > 00:13:33,519 We need an ISO standard for human data rights so that my 266 00:13:33,519 - > 00:13:37,120 kids in the future we could fix this to have less data through 267 00:13:37,120 - > 00:13:40,960 data privacy and privacy by design, and then hopefully a 268 00:13:40,960 - > 00:13:44,960 human data right that gives some guardrails to how much data you 269 00:13:44,960 - > 00:13:49,519 can collect on me and and how much explicit consent uh is 270 00:13:49,519 - > 00:13:53,440 needed um to make sure that we have less data about ourselves 271 00:13:53,440 - > 00:13:53,679 out there. 272 00:13:54,080 - > 00:13:56,399 Definitely a lot to think about and unpack there. 273 00:13:56,559 - > 00:14:01,200 Um and you you know, you mentioned sort of Asia being at 274 00:14:01,200 - > 00:14:04,159 the forefront in terms of like, for example, super apps. 275 00:14:04,559 - > 00:14:08,480 But I I I've sort of found that from a data perspective, like 276 00:14:08,799 - > 00:14:11,679 when I talk about data in Asia, they're like a blah. 277 00:14:11,840 - > 00:14:14,480 You know, that it's not it's it's sort of a bit of a 278 00:14:14,480 - > 00:14:16,080 throwaway kind of a thing. 279 00:14:16,399 - > 00:14:20,879 Um is there do you think that that's an aberration or or is 280 00:14:20,879 - > 00:14:23,360 there something else to dissect there? 281 00:14:23,759 - > 00:14:26,879 I think they live under different government mandates 282 00:14:27,360 - > 00:14:31,919 and they have um a different ability to force out regulation 283 00:14:32,639 - > 00:14:34,799 and choose what they get to do with that data. 284 00:14:34,960 - > 00:14:35,200 Yeah. 285 00:14:35,360 - > 00:14:38,240 Uh so I think they live under a different perspective there. 286 00:14:38,320 - > 00:14:38,480 Yeah. 287 00:14:38,720 - > 00:14:42,399 Um, I think when we like Europe is very regulated. 288 00:14:42,480 - > 00:14:42,639 Yeah. 289 00:14:42,799 - > 00:14:46,159 I I think they've done a really good job with their EU wallet 290 00:14:46,159 - > 00:14:49,440 mandate because it's zero knowledge proof and privacy by 291 00:14:49,440 - > 00:14:52,399 design at its core, and it's a forced mandate. 292 00:14:52,960 - > 00:14:56,559 Um, so less data, but true authentication. 293 00:14:56,879 - > 00:15:00,240 So I think we can learn a little bit from what's happening in 294 00:15:00,240 - > 00:15:03,840 that sense of having a way to validate I am who I say I am 295 00:15:03,919 - > 00:15:06,720 without having to give a thousand pieces of my data. 296 00:15:07,120 - > 00:15:10,879 Um, I wrote a little bit about Sir Tim Bernards-Lee, who's the 297 00:15:10,879 - > 00:15:12,480 creator of the World Wide Web. 298 00:15:12,879 - > 00:15:15,679 Um, but he just wrote a book that came out in January called 299 00:15:15,679 - > 00:15:18,639 This Is for Everyone, The Missing Element of the Web. 300 00:15:19,039 - > 00:15:23,200 And he talks about a solid data pod where we would have a data 301 00:15:23,200 - > 00:15:26,960 pod on ourselves and companies would just ping it, but the data 302 00:15:26,960 - > 00:15:27,600 wouldn't move. 303 00:15:27,759 - > 00:15:28,080 Yeah. 304 00:15:28,639 - > 00:15:31,919 That might be a really interesting future of finance 305 00:15:31,919 - > 00:15:35,440 perspective because there's so many places our data lives, 306 00:15:35,519 - > 00:15:36,159 Sanjeep. 307 00:15:36,240 - > 00:15:39,679 Like we go to hotels, you and me travel all over the world, and 308 00:15:39,679 - > 00:15:42,399 these hotels have our first name, our last name, our 309 00:15:42,399 - > 00:15:45,919 passports, and our credit card, and they don't have a mandate on 310 00:15:45,919 - > 00:15:47,360 how they have to hold our data. 311 00:15:47,519 - > 00:15:50,240 And most data breaches are happening at the hotel level. 312 00:15:50,399 - > 00:15:52,799 Like, think of what happened in Vegas a couple of years ago, 313 00:15:52,879 - > 00:15:56,799 where some hotels were held for ransom because so much sensitive 314 00:15:56,799 - > 00:16:00,480 data is living in a hospitality model. 315 00:16:00,799 - > 00:16:04,399 Where's their oversight regulatory mandate to hold our 316 00:16:04,399 - > 00:16:08,240 data in triple blind, you know, uh zero-knowledge proof ways? 317 00:16:08,320 - > 00:16:10,720 Because they're holding very sensitive data. 318 00:16:10,960 - > 00:16:14,879 We need to get to a better place and we need to really have what 319 00:16:14,879 - > 00:16:16,399 I'm calling a human data right. 320 00:16:16,879 - > 00:16:24,080 I'm reminded of like uh high school um chemistry sets in the 321 00:16:24,080 - > 00:16:24,720 50s. 322 00:16:25,600 - > 00:16:28,240 There were some kits where they had like these things that like 323 00:16:28,559 - > 00:16:31,519 like how the hell how did they why why is that there? 324 00:16:31,759 - > 00:16:36,000 And it was before we knew how dangerous things could be, or 325 00:16:36,240 - > 00:16:40,559 before we knew the implications of you know exposure. 326 00:16:40,879 - > 00:16:43,120 Yeah, yeah, like a five-year-old should not be playing around 327 00:16:43,120 - > 00:16:44,000 with this stuff. 328 00:16:44,159 - > 00:16:44,720 Right. 329 00:16:45,120 - > 00:16:48,799 What what what other topics do you cover in the book that that 330 00:16:48,799 - > 00:16:50,240 uh might be interesting today? 331 00:16:50,559 - > 00:16:54,639 Yeah, I I really dive into why fintechs matter in the sense of 332 00:16:54,639 - > 00:16:59,200 giving consumer-first experiences and fintech and bank 333 00:16:59,200 - > 00:17:02,080 partnerships as well, because I I don't think they're always 334 00:17:02,080 - > 00:17:02,559 competing. 335 00:17:02,720 - > 00:17:07,039 Sometimes their best win is when they collaborate for consumers. 336 00:17:07,200 - > 00:17:10,960 Uh, I talk about what prepaid and Bass is from a back end 337 00:17:11,119 - > 00:17:13,759 powering fintech, because I don't think a lot of people 338 00:17:13,759 - > 00:17:17,759 understand that space very well, but it is what like prepaid is 339 00:17:17,759 - > 00:17:22,480 behind buy now, pay later, earned wage access, um, a lot of 340 00:17:22,480 - > 00:17:23,759 government payouts. 341 00:17:23,839 - > 00:17:26,480 Um, so I don't think people truly understand the power of 342 00:17:26,480 - > 00:17:28,640 prepaid being an innovation rail. 343 00:17:28,799 - > 00:17:32,079 Um, but I also uh dive into new ways to pay. 344 00:17:32,160 - > 00:17:37,680 So QR payments, ISO 2022, why data-rich uh infrastructures 345 00:17:37,680 - > 00:17:41,359 matter, so that we can have more insights when we're making 346 00:17:41,359 - > 00:17:44,400 purchases, if we could actually see what they are in plain 347 00:17:44,400 - > 00:17:44,880 English. 348 00:17:45,039 - > 00:17:46,880 Uh, we can make better decisioning. 349 00:17:47,119 - > 00:17:49,680 Embedded finance is all in that one section. 350 00:17:49,839 - > 00:17:51,440 So that's kind of the beginning of the book. 351 00:17:51,599 - > 00:17:53,279 The middle is all about trust. 352 00:17:53,440 - > 00:17:58,319 So it goes into uh really digital identity, uh, open data, 353 00:17:58,720 - > 00:18:02,640 as well as cybersecurity and how these three core tenets of trust 354 00:18:02,640 - > 00:18:07,519 are needed to allow you to be that fintech or that payment 355 00:18:07,519 - > 00:18:08,079 innovation. 356 00:18:08,240 - > 00:18:11,599 And then uh the last part of the book is really about technology 357 00:18:11,599 - > 00:18:12,319 innovations. 358 00:18:12,480 - > 00:18:15,440 So everything that's happening with AI, which is probably one 359 00:18:15,440 - > 00:18:17,839 of the biggest chapters in the book because it covers 360 00:18:17,839 - > 00:18:21,279 everything from uh, you know, how it's empowering uh 361 00:18:21,279 - > 00:18:24,960 consumers, how it's empowering businesses, but also some 362 00:18:24,960 - > 00:18:30,400 challenges in some data uh center perspectives for the 363 00:18:30,400 - > 00:18:33,519 future and how we're gonna keep up with this pace at the same 364 00:18:33,519 - > 00:18:36,720 time as a gentic finance and what could that mean and what is 365 00:18:36,720 - > 00:18:37,519 it enabling? 366 00:18:37,680 - > 00:18:41,039 And then it goes into blockchain, what that's powering 367 00:18:41,039 - > 00:18:44,559 with tokenized assets, and then it goes into digital currencies 368 00:18:44,559 - > 00:18:45,279 and stable coins. 369 00:18:45,359 - > 00:18:48,559 So really tried to cover the gamut of what I call the nine 370 00:18:48,559 - > 00:18:51,519 elements of the future of finance, and then in chapter 10, 371 00:18:51,759 - > 00:18:56,160 summarizing uh the whole uh breakdown of the future of 372 00:18:56,160 - > 00:18:58,559 finance, and it has 14 experts in the book. 373 00:18:58,880 - > 00:19:03,200 So everyone, uh friends of ours, uh so Carol Grensberg, David 374 00:19:03,200 - > 00:19:06,880 Birch, uh Theodora Lau, and so many others. 375 00:19:07,039 - > 00:19:10,880 So really trying to ground these insights with experts and their 376 00:19:10,880 - > 00:19:12,319 real lived experiences. 377 00:19:12,799 - > 00:19:15,359 So I can try and create the army of the future of finance. 378 00:19:15,440 - > 00:19:19,039 Like I think if we demystify the future of finance, I think we 379 00:19:19,039 - > 00:19:21,759 can get people excited about building towards it, but 380 00:19:21,759 - > 00:19:24,400 building with the right principles like privacy by 381 00:19:24,400 - > 00:19:29,759 design, um, data portability and cybersecurity at its core. 382 00:19:30,160 - > 00:19:32,480 Well, like I can't wait to read that book. 383 00:19:32,640 - > 00:19:36,160 Um, does the number 924 mean anything to you? 384 00:19:36,480 - > 00:19:38,240 Not yet, but tell me why it should. 385 00:19:38,559 - > 00:19:42,880 That is the number of mutual LinkedIn contacts that we have. 386 00:19:43,200 - > 00:19:44,160 Oh my gosh, really? 387 00:19:44,400 - > 00:19:45,359 924. 388 00:19:45,519 - > 00:19:46,240 That is amazing. 389 00:19:46,720 - > 00:19:49,279 And people have reached out to me and they said, Oh, we have 390 00:19:49,279 - > 00:19:51,839 100 contacts, like we should be connected on LinkedIn. 391 00:19:52,000 - > 00:19:53,200 I'm like, okay, yeah. 392 00:19:53,440 - > 00:19:58,559 And and and but 924, I feel like, you know, when you're 393 00:19:58,720 - > 00:20:01,359 yeah, I should be at your Seder or I usually you should be at my 394 00:20:01,359 - > 00:20:02,880 puja whenever I, you know, we're gonna do that. 395 00:20:03,039 - > 00:20:03,359 Absolutely. 396 00:20:03,440 - > 00:20:06,160 I and it's so true. 397 00:20:06,400 - > 00:20:08,799 Like we've known each other for so many years. 398 00:20:08,880 - > 00:20:11,359 Yeah, and I I just love your passion for the future of 399 00:20:11,359 - > 00:20:12,319 finance in fintech. 400 00:20:12,480 - > 00:20:16,319 And I I think that's where we align and why we enjoy hanging 401 00:20:16,319 - > 00:20:20,559 out because I I think once you get kind of um a taste of the 402 00:20:20,559 - > 00:20:23,279 future of finance and get to be a part of building something, 403 00:20:23,359 - > 00:20:24,640 yeah, it's truly exciting. 404 00:20:25,119 - > 00:20:28,480 And it can get you away from reading the news to actually 405 00:20:28,480 - > 00:20:29,200 implementing. 406 00:20:29,359 - > 00:20:33,519 And I think we need a lot more people to uh distract themselves 407 00:20:33,519 - > 00:20:36,880 through innovation instead of like we can't fix what we can't 408 00:20:36,880 - > 00:20:37,119 fix. 409 00:20:37,440 - > 00:20:40,799 So focus on what we could do as innovators, yes, and it'll make 410 00:20:40,799 - > 00:20:42,000 the world a better place for our kids. 411 00:20:42,319 - > 00:20:43,920 No, that makes a ton of sense. 412 00:20:44,079 - > 00:20:46,960 And the last time we saw each other was at FinTech Meetup. 413 00:20:47,119 - > 00:20:50,640 Uh, can you talk to me a little bit about your experience there 414 00:20:50,720 - > 00:20:52,640 and you know how how how was it? 415 00:20:52,880 - > 00:20:54,240 Yeah, uh a couple things. 416 00:20:54,400 - > 00:20:56,559 I'm actually like a fintech meetup OG. 417 00:20:56,960 - > 00:21:00,559 Uh I was on your the virtual sessions way back when uh from 418 00:21:00,559 - > 00:21:04,480 the first kickoff uh and been very privileged to speak at 419 00:21:04,480 - > 00:21:07,759 every in-person that you guys have had so far as a moderator, 420 00:21:07,920 - > 00:21:09,279 largely on open banking. 421 00:21:09,519 - > 00:21:13,759 Um even this session I I just did uh actually it wasn't open 422 00:21:13,759 - > 00:21:16,640 banking, it was about uh community banks being able to 423 00:21:16,640 - > 00:21:20,559 run faster sometimes because of their ability to be agile. 424 00:21:20,880 - > 00:21:22,480 Uh so that was a really good session. 425 00:21:22,640 - > 00:21:23,599 Um it was great. 426 00:21:23,759 - > 00:21:27,920 I think um being able to connect the ecosystem is how we win, 427 00:21:28,000 - > 00:21:28,240 right? 428 00:21:28,400 - > 00:21:31,359 And I think you guys do a great job at that and getting us 429 00:21:31,359 - > 00:21:33,920 together so that we could talk about innovation as it's 430 00:21:33,920 - > 00:21:34,559 happening. 431 00:21:34,720 - > 00:21:36,559 Um, I even got to go outside. 432 00:21:36,640 - > 00:21:39,920 I had never been at Mandalay uh and took some of my meetings 433 00:21:40,000 - > 00:21:40,960 walking around. 434 00:21:41,039 - > 00:21:42,720 There was like a loop around the pool. 435 00:21:43,039 - > 00:21:45,599 Uh so got some outside time as well. 436 00:21:45,759 - > 00:21:52,480 Uh Laura Um from FinTech Atlanta um academy had the pleasure of 437 00:21:52,640 - > 00:21:55,759 sitting down with some of her students uh and myself and Jane 438 00:21:55,759 - > 00:21:59,359 Barrett uh got to basically share our insights. 439 00:22:00,160 - > 00:22:03,599 These 20 students were just so eager to try and be a part of 440 00:22:03,599 - > 00:22:04,720 the future of finance. 441 00:22:04,799 - > 00:22:08,319 So I think that was a great addition to have them come in as 442 00:22:08,319 - > 00:22:10,559 students and kind of see the ecosystem. 443 00:22:11,200 - > 00:22:12,960 And Laura's just great. 444 00:22:13,519 - > 00:22:17,279 And then my panel being on the showroom floor, it was at 8 40 445 00:22:17,279 - > 00:22:18,079 in the morning on day two. 446 00:22:18,240 - > 00:22:19,759 So I was a little concerned. 447 00:22:20,319 - > 00:22:25,039 But I was out until around 10:30 that night before and obviously 448 00:22:25,039 - > 00:22:25,920 spoke to some people. 449 00:22:26,079 - > 00:22:29,920 We had standing room only at 8 40 in the morning on day two, 450 00:22:30,079 - > 00:22:32,400 talking about community banks. 451 00:22:32,880 - > 00:22:35,200 But we had some really great uh panelists. 452 00:22:35,279 - > 00:22:36,960 Like I had the CEO of Thread. 453 00:22:37,359 - > 00:22:39,119 So we just had a really great discussion. 454 00:22:39,200 - > 00:22:40,160 It was very honest. 455 00:22:40,240 - > 00:22:42,960 And I I think it was just a great way to kick off day two. 456 00:22:43,519 - > 00:22:48,400 You know, sort of going back to that 924 number, um, like how 457 00:22:48,559 - > 00:22:51,039 how do you think about networking? 458 00:22:51,200 - > 00:22:55,279 How do you think about who to meet and how to talk? 459 00:22:55,519 - > 00:22:58,240 And like you, because you're you've obviously done that quite 460 00:22:58,240 - > 00:22:58,400 well. 461 00:22:58,720 - > 00:22:59,440 Yeah, thank you. 462 00:22:59,599 - > 00:23:02,880 Um, you know, I got on LinkedIn when I was working for the 463 00:23:02,880 - > 00:23:08,880 online shopping company back in 2008, I guess, uh, and running 464 00:23:08,880 - > 00:23:12,000 online shopping for Alaska Luftanza and Delta, when online 465 00:23:12,079 - > 00:23:15,680 shopping was one to three percent of the ecosystem. 466 00:23:16,000 - > 00:23:20,720 Um, and I'm in Toronto, um, but most of my network is in the US 467 00:23:20,720 - > 00:23:21,519 and global. 468 00:23:21,680 - > 00:23:24,960 Um, and from that day that I started using LinkedIn and 469 00:23:24,960 - > 00:23:27,680 connecting with everyone at those organizations and 470 00:23:27,680 - > 00:23:30,160 retailers, you just start building your network. 471 00:23:30,400 - > 00:23:33,680 And the the bigger that you build that network and you take 472 00:23:33,680 - > 00:23:37,440 time to have phone calls, virtual coffees, when I go into 473 00:23:37,440 - > 00:23:41,039 a city like New York and I know I'm gonna have some time, I'll 474 00:23:41,039 - > 00:23:44,799 search my first connections in that city and try and get a 475 00:23:44,799 - > 00:23:46,400 couple extra coffee meetings. 476 00:23:46,559 - > 00:23:50,000 Uh, you really have to be conscious of growing that 477 00:23:50,000 - > 00:23:51,839 network and staying close to them. 478 00:23:51,920 - > 00:23:55,119 Um, and it's not really always business, it's really just 479 00:23:55,119 - > 00:23:55,680 connection. 480 00:23:56,000 - > 00:23:58,240 Because at the end of the day, you're gonna run into each other 481 00:23:58,240 - > 00:23:59,519 at the next conference. 482 00:23:59,680 - > 00:24:02,319 Uh, there might be something that comes up a couple of years 483 00:24:02,319 - > 00:24:02,799 from now. 484 00:24:02,960 - > 00:24:07,039 So it's that long game in relationship building and it's 485 00:24:07,039 - > 00:24:08,319 really like my family. 486 00:24:08,559 - > 00:24:12,480 Uh, I call my like I've largely run my business uh through 487 00:24:12,480 - > 00:24:14,640 travel, uh, through conferences. 488 00:24:14,799 - > 00:24:17,680 And I think like going to those conferences, like FinTech 489 00:24:17,680 - > 00:24:21,359 Meetup, is meeting your family uh in this ecosystem of 490 00:24:21,359 - > 00:24:25,200 innovation and trying to have as many quick coffee meetings as 491 00:24:25,200 - > 00:24:28,240 you possibly can to see where what you're doing could align to 492 00:24:28,240 - > 00:24:31,119 what they're doing and how could that drive out more innovation? 493 00:24:31,200 - > 00:24:34,559 And I I think it's just really intentional uh to make sure you 494 00:24:34,559 - > 00:24:37,599 build that rapport and enjoy doing it at the same time. 495 00:24:37,920 - > 00:24:39,519 That enjoyment definitely comes across. 496 00:24:39,680 - > 00:24:43,200 I I also not think that another thing that comes across from 497 00:24:43,200 - > 00:24:46,640 your personality is like you're very uh willing to give. 498 00:24:46,799 - > 00:24:49,279 And and this is one thing that I didn't realize is like when 499 00:24:49,279 - > 00:24:52,079 you're like giving that takes out of you as well. 500 00:24:52,240 - > 00:24:54,000 How do you how do you restore yourself? 501 00:24:54,400 - > 00:24:55,839 Yeah, it's a good question. 502 00:24:56,079 - > 00:24:59,839 I think um I'm so used to being under pressure. 503 00:25:00,000 - > 00:25:03,279 Uh I I worked at many organizations where I'm running 504 00:25:03,279 - > 00:25:04,319 three departments. 505 00:25:04,400 - > 00:25:06,720 Uh, so you have to be very efficient with your time. 506 00:25:07,200 - > 00:25:10,240 Um, and I learned being a founder for the last seven 507 00:25:10,240 - > 00:25:10,559 years. 508 00:25:10,720 - > 00:25:14,400 You have to be kind to yourself because you're you're always on. 509 00:25:14,720 - > 00:25:18,480 Uh, and I'm a mom of two uh teenagers uh and have an 510 00:25:18,480 - > 00:25:19,519 incredible husband. 511 00:25:19,680 - > 00:25:22,400 So, you know, it's balance at all times. 512 00:25:22,640 - > 00:25:25,920 Um I love yoga, I meditate twice a day. 513 00:25:26,079 - > 00:25:29,279 I don't think I could start or end my day without at least a 514 00:25:29,279 - > 00:25:30,880 five-minute meditation. 515 00:25:31,039 - > 00:25:35,599 Um, and I I think thank goodness for Spotify uh in in different 516 00:25:35,599 - > 00:25:37,119 ways to do such a thing. 517 00:25:37,359 - > 00:25:41,039 Um, and I do have a checklist that I created of habits that I 518 00:25:41,039 - > 00:25:42,160 want to continue. 519 00:25:42,319 - > 00:25:46,240 Um, so it really just checking through those every day. 520 00:25:46,640 - > 00:25:50,240 Um, like I do Duolingo to learn how to be a better chess player 521 00:25:50,400 - > 00:25:53,200 or almost every day for the last 400 days. 522 00:25:53,279 - > 00:25:57,279 I just giving yourself that kind of self-uh check mark that 523 00:25:57,279 - > 00:25:58,799 you've achieved this today. 524 00:25:58,880 - > 00:26:02,319 Uh, I think it's just a really good self-awareness, especially 525 00:26:02,319 - > 00:26:02,880 as a founder. 526 00:26:03,039 - > 00:26:04,160 It can be lonely. 527 00:26:04,319 - > 00:26:07,440 Uh you it's you against you uh every day. 528 00:26:07,519 - > 00:26:11,440 So you really just have to feel accomplished uh and continue 529 00:26:11,440 - > 00:26:12,480 with that perspective. 530 00:26:12,640 - > 00:26:16,960 And I think giving to others is also you get at the same time. 531 00:26:17,119 - > 00:26:19,920 Like I've a lot of people do call me when they get let go. 532 00:26:20,160 - > 00:26:23,039 And I I try and give them this advice of like, you can paint 533 00:26:23,039 - > 00:26:25,119 your own future, but you have to know what you want. 534 00:26:25,519 - > 00:26:28,400 Um, and you have to be willing to have a lot of coffee sessions 535 00:26:28,799 - > 00:26:30,880 because it might not just come instantaneously. 536 00:26:31,039 - > 00:26:34,000 And it's really about building that network and the same intent 537 00:26:34,000 - > 00:26:34,960 that you have done. 538 00:26:35,200 - > 00:26:37,920 You know, you have such a wide network, and anytime you go 539 00:26:37,920 - > 00:26:40,160 somewhere, everyone's coming in to give you a hug. 540 00:26:40,319 - > 00:26:43,759 Like, I think it's genuine connection that is gonna be so 541 00:26:43,759 - > 00:26:44,319 crucial. 542 00:26:44,559 - > 00:26:49,839 It always has been, but I think in this new agentic uh AI-based 543 00:26:49,839 - > 00:26:52,799 world, this is gonna be even more important, is building that 544 00:26:52,799 - > 00:26:56,880 true kind of genuine friendship um and alignment on the future 545 00:26:56,880 - > 00:26:57,519 of innovation. 546 00:26:57,839 - > 00:27:01,200 Well, uh I I love that, and I think that's a great way to end 547 00:27:01,279 - > 00:27:05,279 uh because I consider you a true friend and we are both aligned 548 00:27:05,279 - > 00:27:08,640 on the future of uh innovation in in fintech. 549 00:27:08,720 - > 00:27:12,079 And and once again, thank you so much for making the time for us 550 00:27:12,079 - > 00:27:12,480 today. 551 00:27:12,640 - > 00:27:14,720 And uh thank you for being a friend. 552 00:27:15,119 - > 00:27:17,119 Oh, my pleasure, and thank you for inviting me. 553 00:27:17,200 - > 00:27:20,000 It's it's such a pleasure to be here, and I can't wait for for 554 00:27:20,000 - > 00:27:21,359 the next uh fintech meetup. 555 00:27:21,920 - > 00:27:22,079 Thank you.