FintechTalks LIVE: Dave Birch

1 00:00:00,160 - > 00:00:02,160 SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of FinTech Talks. 2 00:00:02,240 - > 00:00:06,000 I'm Sanjeep Khalida and I'm here at FinTech Meetup. 3 00:00:06,160 - > 00:00:08,720 And I'm so happy to be here with my friend Dave Birch. 4 00:00:08,880 - > 00:00:10,480 Dave, would you mind please introducing yourself? 5 00:00:10,800 - > 00:00:11,919 SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Dave Birch. 6 00:00:12,000 - > 00:00:14,560 I'm an author, advisor, and commentator on digital financial 7 00:00:14,640 - > 00:00:15,199 services. 8 00:00:15,439 - > 00:00:18,160 And yeah, I'm very flattered to be invited, Sanjeev. 9 00:00:18,239 - > 00:00:18,960 Thank you for having me. 10 00:00:19,199 - > 00:00:21,519 SPEAKER_02: No, it it it's it's I've I've been around the block 11 00:00:21,519 - > 00:00:24,640 a little bit and I never miss a chance to get a chance to talk 12 00:00:24,640 - > 00:00:24,960 to you. 13 00:00:25,039 - > 00:00:30,559 And and I always love your takes on on the state of the world or 14 00:00:30,559 - > 00:00:34,960 state of the industry that are non-traditional, and I I find 15 00:00:34,960 - > 00:00:36,079 them hilarious as well. 16 00:00:37,039 - > 00:00:40,719 And and um so you know what what what's what's what what's 17 00:00:40,719 - > 00:00:43,200 interesting to you at the world in the world right now in in our 18 00:00:43,200 - > 00:00:43,759 industry? 19 00:00:44,079 - > 00:00:46,159 SPEAKER_00: Uh you mean by interesting, you mean what are 20 00:00:46,159 - > 00:00:47,119 clients paying me for? 21 00:00:47,280 - > 00:00:50,240 That's like that's my that's my definition of interesting. 22 00:00:50,479 - > 00:00:53,200 Um I'd say there's probably kind of three areas at the moment 23 00:00:53,359 - > 00:00:56,320 where so obviously AI, yeah. 24 00:00:56,640 - > 00:01:00,960 So uh you can't get over the fact that AI is the most 25 00:01:00,960 - > 00:01:03,679 disruptive technology we're going to be dealing with, and 26 00:01:03,679 - > 00:01:07,120 that's true for fintech, payments, everything we're 27 00:01:07,120 - > 00:01:07,680 involved in. 28 00:01:07,760 - > 00:01:09,120 So AI. 29 00:01:10,480 - > 00:01:14,319 The second thing, and this may not be as obvious in the US, but 30 00:01:14,319 - > 00:01:18,079 certainly outside the US, the issue of the resilience of 31 00:01:18,079 - > 00:01:20,079 payment systems has become a real issue. 32 00:01:20,560 - > 00:01:22,480 Uh national and regional resilience. 33 00:01:22,799 - > 00:01:24,959 And so, and for me it's very interesting. 34 00:01:25,439 - > 00:01:29,599 So, uh doing a lot of work on resilience, okay, and you won't 35 00:01:29,599 - > 00:01:32,319 be surprised to hear me say, of course, the other thing is 36 00:01:32,560 - > 00:01:33,280 identity. 37 00:01:33,439 - > 00:01:35,760 You know, we still haven't solved the identity problem. 38 00:01:35,920 - > 00:01:36,079 Yeah. 39 00:01:36,239 - > 00:01:39,760 And actually, because of well, because of AI, apart from 40 00:01:39,760 - > 00:01:42,640 anything else, yeah, um, identity is back up the agenda 41 00:01:42,640 - > 00:01:43,040 at the moment. 42 00:01:43,280 - > 00:01:46,000 So yeah, they're they're they're probably the top three things 43 00:01:46,000 - > 00:01:46,879 I'm spending time on. 44 00:01:47,120 - > 00:01:49,599 SPEAKER_02: And uh, and I I I would love to dive into each of 45 00:01:49,599 - > 00:01:52,000 those, but I uh let me start with resilience. 46 00:01:52,079 - > 00:01:54,879 I uh like how how what does it what do you when you say 47 00:01:54,879 - > 00:01:57,200 resilience that can be taken many different ways? 48 00:01:57,439 - > 00:02:02,079 How how are your clients or how are our nations thinking about 49 00:02:02,079 - > 00:02:03,040 resilience? 50 00:02:03,519 - > 00:02:05,680 SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, first of all, there are more there's 51 00:02:05,680 - > 00:02:07,040 more pressure on resilience now. 52 00:02:07,120 - > 00:02:10,479 You've got things like DORA, uh the uh European Digital 53 00:02:10,479 - > 00:02:12,080 Operational Resilience Act. 54 00:02:12,240 - > 00:02:14,960 Regulators want banks to be more resilient, they want the 55 00:02:14,960 - > 00:02:17,280 financial infrastructure to be more resilient. 56 00:02:17,759 - > 00:02:22,319 You've had some disasters recently, uh, not just kind of 57 00:02:22,319 - > 00:02:24,879 earthquakes and floods and things like that, but the power 58 00:02:24,879 - > 00:02:28,800 going out in Spain, for example, or and that's kind of got people 59 00:02:28,800 - > 00:02:29,599 focused on it. 60 00:02:29,680 - > 00:02:32,159 Um you've got a lot of regular day-to-day stuff. 61 00:02:32,240 - > 00:02:34,400 You know, you go to the supermarket and the car machines 62 00:02:34,400 - > 00:02:37,680 aren't working, or banks go down for a couple of days, you can't 63 00:02:37,680 - > 00:02:38,400 make payments. 64 00:02:39,199 - > 00:02:44,080 But of course, there's also now the issue of well, what if we 65 00:02:44,080 - > 00:02:48,800 have to use regional or national solutions? 66 00:02:48,960 - > 00:02:52,800 What if we can't use proprietary we can't use they say 67 00:02:52,800 - > 00:02:54,080 proprietary, they mean American. 68 00:02:54,159 - > 00:02:55,680 We can't use American solutions. 69 00:02:55,759 - > 00:02:56,000 Yeah. 70 00:02:56,159 - > 00:02:58,560 How are we gonna be more now? 71 00:02:59,280 - > 00:03:01,840 Historically, you know, when you were talking about resilience, 72 00:03:02,319 - > 00:03:05,520 like in a bank or something like that, yeah, you'd be talking 73 00:03:05,520 - > 00:03:09,919 about okay, how much does it cost to get us 99% resilience? 74 00:03:10,400 - > 00:03:11,520 Okay, that's not good enough. 75 00:03:11,599 - > 00:03:14,560 The r how much is it gonna cost to get us 99.9? 76 00:03:14,800 - > 00:03:15,919 That's 10 times as much. 77 00:03:16,000 - > 00:03:16,159 Yeah. 78 00:03:16,560 - > 00:03:19,199 99.99, 10 times more than that. 79 00:03:19,280 - > 00:03:22,800 Yeah, you know, pretty soon you hit a wall, you can't afford to 80 00:03:22,800 - > 00:03:23,840 go any further. 81 00:03:24,080 - > 00:03:27,680 And yet you're utterly dependent on the same underlying systems. 82 00:03:28,000 - > 00:03:31,039 So the focus on resilience now has got a lot to do with 83 00:03:31,039 - > 00:03:32,400 diversity of infrastructure. 84 00:03:32,719 - > 00:03:36,479 Because now we have things like stable coins, you know, 85 00:03:36,639 - > 00:03:41,120 distributed ledgers, digital assets, CBDC coming in in some 86 00:03:41,120 - > 00:03:41,520 places. 87 00:03:41,919 - > 00:03:45,680 We've got in many parts of the world domestic networks that can 88 00:03:45,680 - > 00:03:47,520 be developed further. 89 00:03:48,719 - > 00:03:51,840 So I think resilience now is more about trying to look at 90 00:03:51,840 - > 00:03:55,280 what the strategic mix downstream will be. 91 00:03:55,439 - > 00:03:57,759 I mean, to take it like a very simplistic view. 92 00:03:58,080 - > 00:04:01,680 If the you know, if the settlement network goes down, 93 00:04:02,000 - > 00:04:04,240 can we just send things over stable coins instead? 94 00:04:04,479 - > 00:04:05,439 Or, you know, whatever. 95 00:04:05,680 - > 00:04:09,840 If the card network is down at the supermarket, can we go to an 96 00:04:09,840 - > 00:04:11,120 offline alternative? 97 00:04:11,280 - > 00:04:11,759 Yeah. 98 00:04:12,000 - > 00:04:14,639 I mean, obviously without interrupting the consumer 99 00:04:14,639 - > 00:04:15,199 experience. 100 00:04:16,000 - > 00:04:19,439 So, yeah, so it's but it's it's a priority now because just 101 00:04:19,439 - > 00:04:20,480 because of recent events. 102 00:04:20,560 - > 00:04:20,800 Yeah. 103 00:04:20,959 - > 00:04:23,439 So that's and it's fun and it's intellectually quite 104 00:04:23,439 - > 00:04:23,839 interesting. 105 00:04:23,920 - > 00:04:25,439 So I quite like that work actually. 106 00:04:25,680 - > 00:04:29,920 SPEAKER_02: I I I I've also uh one thing that I'm I mean, we're 107 00:04:29,920 - > 00:04:33,920 seeing in the world is like there's a lot more I'd say like 108 00:04:34,160 - > 00:04:38,319 thinking about these payments rails in terms of sovereignty, 109 00:04:38,480 - > 00:04:41,759 and and that also fits into the resilience as well. 110 00:04:41,839 - > 00:04:47,600 Like almost like an I I I like how and I mean how how do you 111 00:04:47,600 - > 00:04:48,240 think about that? 112 00:04:48,480 - > 00:04:51,519 SPEAKER_00: Well, I think in lots of places people have seen, 113 00:04:51,680 - > 00:04:54,240 I mean, not just the I mean everybody knows the key 114 00:04:54,240 - > 00:04:56,800 examples, UPI, yeah, PICs in Brazil. 115 00:04:57,040 - > 00:04:59,839 I mean, everybody looks at these and looks at the numbers, yeah, 116 00:05:00,079 - > 00:05:01,839 and whoa, you know, yeah. 117 00:05:02,160 - > 00:05:05,199 I mean, to a first approximation, everyone in 118 00:05:05,199 - > 00:05:06,720 Brazil has PICs, basically. 119 00:05:06,800 - > 00:05:11,920 So um so people are looking at that and saying, well, first of 120 00:05:11,920 - > 00:05:14,160 all, why can't we have a national solution like that? 121 00:05:14,319 - > 00:05:19,600 Yeah, which is uh universal, mandated, you know, everyone's 122 00:05:19,600 - > 00:05:21,600 got the same interfaces, etc., etc. 123 00:05:22,399 - > 00:05:26,240 But there's also the issue of what about alternatives that are 124 00:05:26,240 - > 00:05:28,560 being developed by the private sector in different places? 125 00:05:28,800 - > 00:05:31,279 This is why I mentioned stable coins, for example. 126 00:05:31,600 - > 00:05:36,000 So could we achieve let's imagine if you're in Southeast 127 00:05:36,000 - > 00:05:41,439 Asia, for example, could we achieve regional sovereignty you 128 00:05:41,439 - > 00:05:44,800 know, by interconnecting, for example, the real-time payment 129 00:05:44,800 - > 00:05:45,199 networks? 130 00:05:45,279 - > 00:05:48,319 Yeah, could we interconnect domestic card networks or 131 00:05:48,319 - > 00:05:49,839 domestic payment schemes? 132 00:05:50,160 - > 00:05:54,240 Or could we look at developing parallel rails you know, using 133 00:05:54,240 - > 00:05:55,360 stable coins and so on? 134 00:05:55,680 - > 00:05:59,120 And actually, the idea of using parallel rails to achieve higher 135 00:05:59,120 - > 00:06:01,839 levels of resilience than building continuous landscape, 136 00:06:02,160 - > 00:06:03,120 that's pretty interesting. 137 00:06:03,839 - > 00:06:06,399 Now, and also you said about regional things. 138 00:06:06,480 - > 00:06:09,279 I mean, if you look at the example of Scandinavia, you got 139 00:06:09,439 - > 00:06:11,920 MPE and VIP, so all of these things are coming together and 140 00:06:11,920 - > 00:06:15,600 interconnecting, I think you see different paths to resilience 141 00:06:15,600 - > 00:06:15,759 now. 142 00:06:15,920 - > 00:06:20,079 So uh and working out what strategy is going to work best 143 00:06:20,079 - > 00:06:23,839 in which nation/slash region, uh it's interesting work, you know. 144 00:06:24,000 - > 00:06:30,959 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and um shifting now to AI it is um 145 00:06:32,399 - > 00:06:38,319 yeah, you know, I I'm I remember as you know for when different 146 00:06:38,319 - > 00:06:41,839 technology platforms come out, you know, there there's a bit of 147 00:06:41,839 - > 00:06:44,959 the the platform itself, then the tools you can get from the 148 00:06:44,959 - > 00:06:50,319 platform, and then how that changes even how like for for 149 00:06:50,319 - > 00:06:53,839 example, like we use computer files, but they're named after 150 00:06:53,839 - > 00:06:57,759 physical paper files, and and but they're they have nothing to 151 00:06:57,759 - > 00:06:58,879 do with one one or the other. 152 00:06:58,959 - > 00:07:03,040 But it's it's just sort of a way that we as humans are able to 153 00:07:03,040 - > 00:07:05,439 manage you know that this new archetype. 154 00:07:05,680 - > 00:07:06,480 SPEAKER_00: No, I know exactly. 155 00:07:07,600 - > 00:07:09,920 This is the problem challenge. 156 00:07:10,000 - > 00:07:14,560 I mean, this is the this is what finance faces because once you 157 00:07:14,560 - > 00:07:17,360 go agentic, once it's agents that are doing these 158 00:07:17,360 - > 00:07:20,480 transactions, there's no particular reason why you would 159 00:07:20,480 - > 00:07:23,519 think that the existing infrastructure that we have is 160 00:07:23,519 - > 00:07:24,240 the best for them. 161 00:07:24,800 - > 00:07:27,120 In fact, you it's got it's almost certainly not, yeah. 162 00:07:27,920 - > 00:07:30,720 So, and you know, stable coins are an interesting example. 163 00:07:30,800 - > 00:07:30,959 Yeah. 164 00:07:31,120 - > 00:07:34,480 So one of the discussions on the stage here this morning. 165 00:07:34,720 - > 00:07:37,600 So we can make some great stablecoin solutions, and you 166 00:07:37,600 - > 00:07:40,319 have people like Tempo and so on that are building this stuff out 167 00:07:40,319 - > 00:07:40,639 right now. 168 00:07:41,199 - > 00:07:44,480 Once you can run stable coins over those rails, actually, you 169 00:07:44,480 - > 00:07:46,720 can run any digital asset over those rails. 170 00:07:46,959 - > 00:07:49,600 There are plenty of people who know more about finance than I 171 00:07:49,600 - > 00:07:53,839 do that say, actually, a US dollar stablecoin, maybe that's 172 00:07:53,839 - > 00:07:54,639 not the best. 173 00:07:55,040 - > 00:07:58,079 Maybe actually tokenized money market funds would be a better 174 00:07:58,079 - > 00:08:00,720 solution, or even tokenized treasury bills, or I mean 175 00:08:00,800 - > 00:08:02,160 there's other kind of things. 176 00:08:02,399 - > 00:08:05,360 So now you've got tokens that uh yield-bearing tokens. 177 00:08:05,439 - > 00:08:05,759 Yeah. 178 00:08:06,000 - > 00:08:10,319 So if you can exchange those seamlessly over those networks, 179 00:08:10,399 - > 00:08:14,879 yeah, why would you ever come out of those into fiat stable 180 00:08:14,879 - > 00:08:15,199 coins? 181 00:08:15,279 - > 00:08:16,480 Why would you ever bother with that? 182 00:08:16,639 - > 00:08:16,800 SPEAKER_01: Yeah. 183 00:08:17,040 - > 00:08:21,839 SPEAKER_00: So so the AI isn't just uh, you know, clever ways 184 00:08:21,839 - > 00:08:24,000 of doing what we do now, but with different processes. 185 00:08:24,399 - > 00:08:29,040 It's bringing into existence very different ways of doing 186 00:08:29,040 - > 00:08:29,439 business. 187 00:08:29,920 - > 00:08:34,559 And I, you know, I take a mild amount of credit. 188 00:08:34,799 - > 00:08:37,360 I mean, I wrote a thing a few years ago for Wired magazine 189 00:08:37,440 - > 00:08:40,000 actually about AI and banking. 190 00:08:40,159 - > 00:08:40,559 Yeah. 191 00:08:40,799 - > 00:08:43,120 I can't remember how this came about, but it wasn't about 192 00:08:43,360 - > 00:08:44,159 banking. 193 00:08:45,200 - > 00:08:47,759 And, you know, I looked at what the banks were saying about all 194 00:08:47,759 - > 00:08:50,799 of this, and I I just it didn't seem right to me, and I couldn't 195 00:08:50,799 - > 00:08:54,320 figure out like, why is this not like they're gonna use the most 196 00:08:54,320 - > 00:08:57,600 powerful technology ever invented, and if the and they're 197 00:08:57,600 - > 00:09:00,399 gonna use it to send slightly better targeted credit card 198 00:09:00,399 - > 00:09:00,799 mailings? 199 00:09:00,879 - > 00:09:02,240 I mean, that's doesn't you know what I mean? 200 00:09:02,320 - > 00:09:05,279 It doesn't so and I realize and I'm not the only person that 201 00:09:05,279 - > 00:09:08,720 thought this, but you know, but then I realized you know, there 202 00:09:08,720 - > 00:09:11,840 is a revolution coming in financial services, but it's 203 00:09:11,840 - > 00:09:14,879 because of customers using AI, it's not because of banks using 204 00:09:14,879 - > 00:09:15,200 AI. 205 00:09:15,679 - > 00:09:20,080 And so this idea that you have the customer's AI becomes your 206 00:09:20,080 - > 00:09:22,480 customer, not the customer anymore, if you see what I mean. 207 00:09:22,559 - > 00:09:23,200 Yeah, yeah. 208 00:09:23,600 - > 00:09:26,639 And if you take on board, like people are saying, the primary 209 00:09:26,639 - > 00:09:29,039 users of stable coins are gonna be AIs, yeah. 210 00:09:29,200 - > 00:09:31,679 Like when you put all this stuff together, you end up with a 211 00:09:31,679 - > 00:09:35,120 different kind of financial infrastructure, which again I 212 00:09:35,120 - > 00:09:38,879 think is absolutely fascinating and intellectually very 213 00:09:38,879 - > 00:09:40,799 interesting to try and work out where that's going. 214 00:09:40,960 - > 00:09:45,679 So yeah, the AI stuff I'm really interested in is customers using 215 00:09:45,679 - > 00:09:46,000 AI. 216 00:09:46,159 - > 00:09:49,919 And I mean, don't you think that's kind of I think maybe 217 00:09:49,919 - > 00:09:52,320 merchants, banks, I think maybe they don't know what's coming 218 00:09:52,879 - > 00:09:54,639 because they don't have a strategy. 219 00:09:54,879 - > 00:09:59,600 I mean, who has a strategy for customers becoming a thousand 220 00:09:59,600 - > 00:10:02,000 times smarter literally overnight? 221 00:10:02,080 - > 00:10:06,799 Yeah, you know, we have business processes that are I was 222 00:10:06,799 - > 00:10:09,440 thinking about car in I had to buy car insurance a couple of 223 00:10:09,440 - > 00:10:09,759 weeks. 224 00:10:10,080 - > 00:10:14,080 You're a like no sane person wants to spend their time 225 00:10:14,080 - > 00:10:16,240 comparing car insurance policies, right? 226 00:10:16,480 - > 00:10:19,440 And and even how do you you know, even when I I get the two 227 00:10:19,440 - > 00:10:23,120 best quotes from the guy, I download the 400 pages of like 228 00:10:23,279 - > 00:10:26,320 how am I even supposed to compare the like that stuff 229 00:10:26,399 - > 00:10:30,799 cannot survive the the advent of agentics, so yeah, so it means a 230 00:10:30,799 - > 00:10:34,720 different kind of well, not only does it mean a different kind of 231 00:10:34,720 - > 00:10:37,519 financial market infrastructure, it means frankly a different 232 00:10:37,519 - > 00:10:39,200 kind of web is coming as well. 233 00:10:39,279 - > 00:10:40,799 So no, I I'm fascinated. 234 00:10:40,960 - > 00:10:44,879 Like, am I interested in how the bank uses AI to replace some 235 00:10:44,879 - > 00:10:46,000 people in the call center? 236 00:10:46,159 - > 00:10:47,360 No, I couldn't care less. 237 00:10:47,440 - > 00:10:49,120 I mean, that's just not interesting. 238 00:10:49,360 - > 00:10:50,000 Yeah, yeah, no. 239 00:10:50,080 - > 00:10:52,240 SPEAKER_02: And to me, I'm sure it's good business for some 240 00:10:52,240 - > 00:10:58,960 people, but and and and uh sort of maybe jumping to the next 241 00:10:59,039 - > 00:11:02,720 that that that third piece, which is also related to AI and 242 00:11:02,720 - > 00:11:07,440 and I I I think in terms of identity, and and you know, if 243 00:11:07,440 - > 00:11:13,840 you have these agents rather than customers, um yeah, and 244 00:11:14,240 - > 00:11:16,960 they're customer driven, but like then what what what is 245 00:11:16,960 - > 00:11:17,840 identity at that point? 246 00:11:18,159 - > 00:11:20,000 SPEAKER_00: I mean you're absolutely right to to point to 247 00:11:20,000 - > 00:11:20,159 this. 248 00:11:20,240 - > 00:11:23,360 This is a this is a fundamental problem with what we have now, 249 00:11:23,600 - > 00:11:29,200 which I mean people recognize, but we haven't quite so unless 250 00:11:29,200 - > 00:11:33,759 you can work out the identity of an AI, who authorized it, yeah, 251 00:11:34,159 - > 00:11:37,360 its reputation, like it's unfortunate like unless you know 252 00:11:37,360 - > 00:11:38,720 this stuff, like it doesn't work. 253 00:11:38,879 - > 00:11:43,519 You draw on the whiteboard, oh well, my bot will open a savings 254 00:11:43,519 - > 00:11:45,360 account with your bank's bot, whatever. 255 00:11:45,440 - > 00:11:47,759 Like that's easy to draw on a whiteboard, yeah. 256 00:11:47,919 - > 00:11:49,759 But like you drop it down one level. 257 00:11:49,919 - > 00:11:53,679 Yeah, how does my bot know that you actually are the authorized 258 00:11:53,679 - > 00:11:54,480 bot for the bank? 259 00:11:54,720 - > 00:11:58,000 How does your bot know that I'm an authorized bot who's allowed 260 00:11:58,000 - > 00:11:59,200 to access bank accounts? 261 00:11:59,360 - > 00:12:02,320 How do you know I'm allowed to access on behalf of Dave Birch? 262 00:12:02,480 - > 00:12:05,120 How do you know what I'm allowed to do on behalf of like when you 263 00:12:05,120 - > 00:12:08,159 go down one level, it's really complicated and not fixed. 264 00:12:08,639 - > 00:12:12,960 So again, intellectually very fascinating as to what to do 265 00:12:12,960 - > 00:12:13,200 there. 266 00:12:13,440 - > 00:12:17,279 And like we kind of the way we semi-fix this at the moment is 267 00:12:17,279 - > 00:12:21,519 like you give the bot permission to sort of be you, yeah, but 268 00:12:21,519 - > 00:12:22,720 that's not really what we want. 269 00:12:22,879 - > 00:12:26,480 What we want is an infrastructure where it's a bot, 270 00:12:26,720 - > 00:12:28,480 but it's acting on my behalf. 271 00:12:28,639 - > 00:12:30,159 Like, do I know this is? 272 00:12:30,879 - > 00:12:34,960 I mean, this is a silly example, but like, does Robin Hood know 273 00:12:34,960 - > 00:12:38,000 that this is the real Jim Kramer bot? 274 00:12:38,320 - > 00:12:43,440 Is the real Jim Kramer bot authorized to access who says, 275 00:12:43,519 - > 00:12:47,200 you know, is it authorized on behalf of Dave Birch? 276 00:12:47,519 - > 00:12:49,440 What can it do on behalf of Dave Birch? 277 00:12:49,600 - > 00:12:50,159 You know, etc. 278 00:12:50,399 - > 00:12:50,639 etc. 279 00:12:51,039 - > 00:12:54,799 So because I like I'm a normal, I'm a normal consumer of 280 00:12:54,799 - > 00:12:55,679 financial services. 281 00:12:55,840 - > 00:12:56,159 Yeah. 282 00:12:56,320 - > 00:13:00,080 Like the cons most of them are boring, like payments and so on, 283 00:13:00,159 - > 00:13:01,120 which I don't want to do them. 284 00:13:01,200 - > 00:13:02,320 I want bots to do those. 285 00:13:02,399 - > 00:13:02,559 Yeah. 286 00:13:02,720 - > 00:13:06,399 And the ones that aren't boring are so baffling and complex that 287 00:13:06,399 - > 00:13:07,519 I want an AI to do it. 288 00:13:07,600 - > 00:13:08,639 I don't want to do it myself. 289 00:13:08,720 - > 00:13:09,279 Yeah. 290 00:13:09,519 - > 00:13:12,240 Would you, would you back, I mean, even if you just talk 291 00:13:12,240 - > 00:13:16,879 about things like like in the UK right now, it's March, it's 292 00:13:16,879 - > 00:13:18,639 coming up to the end of our tax year. 293 00:13:18,720 - > 00:13:18,799 Yeah. 294 00:13:19,120 - > 00:13:22,720 Normal middle class people like me have to look at our savings. 295 00:13:22,960 - > 00:13:25,919 We have like these savings accounts, the tax efficient 296 00:13:26,000 - > 00:13:26,799 savings accounts. 297 00:13:27,120 - > 00:13:30,000 So you you have to open, like, which one do I want? 298 00:13:30,159 - > 00:13:32,799 Do I want the existing one or do I want one of the new ones? 299 00:13:33,200 - > 00:13:35,600 I don't want I don't want to spend any time doing that. 300 00:13:35,679 - > 00:13:37,360 I want a bot to do that for me. 301 00:13:37,440 - > 00:13:41,279 And I wouldn't back myself to make a better choice of those 302 00:13:41,360 - > 00:13:44,559 than even the even the the kickkeeper. 303 00:13:45,039 - > 00:13:45,200 Okay. 304 00:13:47,120 - > 00:13:50,480 I wouldn't back myself to make a better choice of savings account 305 00:13:50,720 - > 00:13:52,639 than even the most rudimentary bot. 306 00:13:52,879 - > 00:13:53,600 You know what I mean? 307 00:13:53,759 - > 00:13:56,559 So so actually, I think that's stuff's coming quite quickly. 308 00:13:56,639 - > 00:13:56,720 Yeah. 309 00:13:57,039 - > 00:14:00,080 If the identity problem that you point out is solved, yeah. 310 00:14:00,240 - > 00:14:03,919 Now, I think one of the bonuses to solving that problem, and 311 00:14:03,919 - > 00:14:07,840 this may sound a little odd, but I think it's true, is fraud is 312 00:14:07,840 - > 00:14:08,879 completely out of control. 313 00:14:09,039 - > 00:14:09,360 Yeah. 314 00:14:09,600 - > 00:14:11,759 A lot of that fraud is caused by AIs. 315 00:14:11,919 - > 00:14:12,399 Yeah. 316 00:14:12,720 - > 00:14:16,639 It's not obvious to me that an AI is harder to fool. 317 00:14:16,720 - > 00:14:17,039 Yeah. 318 00:14:17,200 - > 00:14:18,879 Like because AIs don't live in our world. 319 00:14:19,039 - > 00:14:22,159 AIs don't live in the world of, oh, this does this look a bit 320 00:14:22,159 - > 00:14:23,200 like Jim Kramer? 321 00:14:23,279 - > 00:14:23,360 Yeah. 322 00:14:23,519 - > 00:14:27,120 Did Jim Kramer really say, you know, go and buy this stock or 323 00:14:27,120 - > 00:14:27,519 whatever? 324 00:14:27,679 - > 00:14:31,679 Like AIs live in a world of keys and certificates and encryption, 325 00:14:32,159 - > 00:14:33,200 digital signatures. 326 00:14:33,360 - > 00:14:37,120 And like I can make a fake video of Jim Kramer saying, oh, you 327 00:14:37,120 - > 00:14:41,039 should buy Dave Birch's stock, but I can't make a fake digital 328 00:14:41,039 - > 00:14:42,320 signature of Jim Kramer. 329 00:14:42,399 - > 00:14:43,759 Like math doesn't work like that. 330 00:14:44,240 - > 00:14:48,399 So actually, I think once we get this identity thing sorted out, 331 00:14:48,480 - > 00:14:51,440 I actually think that'll be a much safer infrastructure too. 332 00:14:52,080 - > 00:14:52,960 SPEAKER_02: What's interesting? 333 00:14:53,200 - > 00:14:58,879 And and uh I I we're we're getting towards the end of our 334 00:14:58,879 - > 00:15:03,120 time, and and uh I I wanted to add, I would be remiss if I did 335 00:15:03,120 - > 00:15:06,559 not ask you about you know what what's been your experience like 336 00:15:06,559 - > 00:15:08,399 here at FinTech Meetup so far. 337 00:15:08,720 - > 00:15:10,399 SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, it was great. 338 00:15:10,559 - > 00:15:14,080 I got they they put me on the main stage this morning. 339 00:15:14,320 - > 00:15:16,159 My panelists were fantastic. 340 00:15:16,240 - > 00:15:20,080 I mean, you saw that it was just it was just great, and it had 341 00:15:20,080 - > 00:15:22,320 the right mix of people, yeah. 342 00:15:22,480 - > 00:15:25,759 So that the conversation was I said to them, like I only say 343 00:15:25,759 - > 00:15:26,639 yes to panel. 344 00:15:26,720 - > 00:15:28,399 I mean, like I don't want to sound like too much of a prima 345 00:15:28,639 - > 00:15:30,480 donna, but I do do this quite a lot, you know. 346 00:15:30,960 - > 00:15:34,159 I like panels where I'm gonna learn stuff as well, you know, 347 00:15:34,240 - > 00:15:35,440 and so wow. 348 00:15:35,600 - > 00:15:40,240 I mean, in terms of like like knowledge per minute on that 349 00:15:40,240 - > 00:15:41,759 stage this morning, it was terrific. 350 00:15:41,919 - > 00:15:46,320 No one was parroting like PR stuff, and they were all really 351 00:15:46,639 - > 00:15:51,919 informed, really so great, yeah, but also it's a bit in less 352 00:15:51,919 - > 00:15:52,960 tangible, this kind of thing. 353 00:15:53,360 - > 00:15:55,600 But don't you think it just like has a nice atmosphere? 354 00:15:55,759 - > 00:15:58,159 Yeah, like I've been just walking around, bumping into 355 00:15:58,159 - > 00:15:59,360 people, chatting to people. 356 00:15:59,440 - > 00:16:00,639 Yeah, it's been lovely. 357 00:16:00,720 - > 00:16:02,799 Uh and also by the way, some of the stands here, yeah. 358 00:16:02,960 - > 00:16:08,159 I have to say the new kind of like base level of swag has gone 359 00:16:08,159 - > 00:16:09,279 up significantly. 360 00:16:09,440 - > 00:16:12,799 Like there's really nice stuff out there on the floor, and so 361 00:16:12,960 - > 00:16:15,919 maybe there isn't going to be a global recession after all. 362 00:16:16,799 - > 00:16:17,759 SPEAKER_02: I love that. 363 00:16:17,840 - > 00:16:22,080 And and uh I you know I think we're once again we're reached 364 00:16:22,320 - > 00:16:23,759 reached the end of our time here. 365 00:16:23,919 - > 00:16:26,879 But I I would be I just want to thank you personally. 366 00:16:26,960 - > 00:16:31,519 Like I've known you for so many years, and you have had such an 367 00:16:31,519 - > 00:16:32,480 impact on me personally. 368 00:16:32,720 - > 00:16:38,000 Oh, you're very I I um I I love your intellectual curiosity. 369 00:16:38,159 - > 00:16:40,159 Um it's second to none. 370 00:16:40,559 - > 00:16:44,000 And the way that you talk about things and you personalize 371 00:16:44,000 - > 00:16:46,399 things, it it has been a North Star for me. 372 00:16:46,480 - > 00:16:49,919 And that's I once again for my heart wanna want to thank you 373 00:16:49,919 - > 00:16:50,159 for that. 374 00:16:50,480 - > 00:16:51,600 SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Sanjeev. 375 00:16:51,840 - > 00:16:53,279 That means a lot to me coming from you. 376 00:16:53,840 - > 00:16:54,159 Thank you.