The Growth of Embedded Finance: How It’s Bridging the Financial Inclusion Gap

Speaker A: Hello everyone, uh, welcome to the Credex podcast series uh Fintech X. I am Hemant Joshi, Vice President Product Management at Credex, India's largest supply chain platform uh and I am excited to be your moderator today for the discussion. Today's topic is the growth of embedded finance. How it is bridging the financial uh inclusion gap. As we have seen uh all around us, uh embedded finance is revolutionizing the industries by integr services directly into non financing uh platforms making banking, payment, insurance and lending more accessible to the customers in a very seamless manner. This innovation is crucial in enhancing the financial inclusion particularly in the underserved population as it removes the traditional barriers to the financial services. However, as embedded finance grows it is important to address the security concerns that come along with it. With sensitive uh personal information data and financial data flowing through multiple platform ensuring uh the requirement of strong Data encryption, secure APIs, uh and regulatory compliance uh, for safeguarding our users. With that I am thrilled to introduce our distinguished panel of speakers who will bring uh, uh, extensive knowledge and insight on this particular topic. So we have Mr. Loknath Panda, he is chief operating officer at BLS E Services. It is a prominent digital service provider uh organization in India offering technology enabled services such as business correspondent, uh assisted E services and e government services. And joining with him uh, with him we have uh Mr. S Anand, founder and CEO of Space Print Private Limited which is a banking, banking fintech infrastructure company and a leading API provider uh provider in India. A very warm welcome to you both in Fintech Fintech X uh powered by Credex. So now like without any uh further ado let us dive into today's discussion uh to kick things off and uh, I would like Mr. Lopnath Panda to explain our audience what embedded finance is and how it was from the traditional finance.

Speaker B: Yeah, so uh, you know uh, just to introduce ourselves once again um, we at VLSE Services we provide real time banking services to millions of households in the country uh and are playing essential role in financial inclusion initiatives like Pradhan Mantri, Jandan Yojana in the country also we are providing a lot of e governance services to the citizens in the country. Right. So embedded finance is a seamless integration of financial products in a non financial platform environment right. Through various services. Whether it's like shopping or a ride sharing or the payroll system or other means including social media.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: The customers of non financial platform which is providing embedded finance did not visit a financial institution or a bank to email these services. So the experience for customer is Seamless uh and frictionless in a embedded finance environment that also helps the businesses which provide embedded finance to strengthen their customer relations generate more revenues as well as enhance customer loyalty.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: For example somebody uh do going with a Uber ride, uh could kind of make a payment or somebody having a Starbucks coffee can have an app based payment. Somebody can avail a salary advance for link to a company payroll or you know social media based digital uh gift card or P2P payments.

Speaker A: All right, all right. So uh, basically uh what you said as a key differentiator is the consumer or the customer of uh the financial services over here does not need to visit the financial service provider. Rather it is very very available on the non uh financing platform itself and they can onboard. And uh the thing that it adds to is it is very very use case driven and uh, we can call it as a just in time uh finance getting uh a term from the automotive industry and manufacturing industry where they do just in time procurement. So it is a just in time Finance uh basically. Mr. Anand, would you like to add um certain things on top of it?

Speaker C: Absolutely. Ah I think what uh, um no, I think uh rightly said because uh you know India, in India uh one of the key uh you know aim for the government is especially in the financial inclusion space. Right. And we all know that the availability of um financial services across the entire cities has uh always been a challenge. Uh and I think uh embedded finances is one of the uh. One which has really revolutionized the way uh these financial services have been made available across uh these small cities. So today and uh, especially in places where you really don't have uh banking infrastructure in place, uh the largely banks and where there's always an issue of um, let's say offering loans, uh offering banking services, um you know and embedded finance has really been able to solve those problems and make life easier in those places. Uh so it's been a, and I think it is um. It has touched uh people's lives because um, it's been able to bring in those uh uh services across right at the doorsteps which was not possible a few years back. So I feel um. This has been a great um, a uh great initiative, a great move. Uh and it involves collaboration with the banks, the financial institutions, the fintech players and obviously uh a lot of entrepreneurs who uh really are able to take up this uh to the doorsteps of you know the deserving or the underbanked kind of a population in India.

Speaker A: All right, so uh, when we talk about uh uh the embedded finance so in your experience how does it reach uh the underserved markets? Like there are large uh, pockets in our economy or are in, in our population, uh, which are out of scope of financial services, traditional financial services. How do you see those getting included? Uh, with the help of embedded finance.

Speaker B: So you know in at bls we, we take an approach of a combination of a digital platform and a physical touch point, uh to reach this underserved and uh, unserved market. Because you know especially the tide to tie three type four locations. Um, just having a pure digital play possibly may not work because of the literacy regions. Right. So we take our touch points uh, uh, with a digital platform which lowers the cost for both the financial institution, uh, you know as well as us for reaching out to these customers and providing finance options.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Um, small examples like you know, for a, for a small merchant who needs uh, a little bit of capital to increase their sales and you know increase the income, uh, you know these kind of platforms provide a good uh, mechanism for them to avail such finance options.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: All right, all right. So uh, how does I uh mean the embedded finance play a role in bridging uh the wealth gap? I mean you talked about the credit gap uh for a small business or the individuals who are unbanked or untouched by the financial services. When it comes to the wealth part, uh how do you see embedded financing, embedded finance making an impact with the services like micro investments in app investment options, etc?

Speaker C: Well, uh, I think uh. If uh. You really look at today uh, you know and I think uh, especially post Covid, uh one of the key changes in India has been the uh. Especially if you really look at, if you look at the investment uh into the stock market right today, uh, I think uh, the kind of sips that the, the uh, you know the. The Indian public has been able to push across uh, in the stock market is immense and uh. And I think largely thanks to a good amount of awareness and good amount of you know, um, now uh, embedded financing across because you're able to uh, open your digital demat accounts and maybe able to do all those transactions. So it has in a way it has been able to give access uh to so many youngsters. I think, I mean today if you really look at uh, the Indian landscape and India is a young country and if you ready to ask uh, them what is the mode of savings. And I think savings today is actually in sips. So uh, which is not there, let's say five years back. So I think um, uh, it has immensely changed uh the way India works today. So it has given access to them in terms of uh. Uh in terms of reaching out the stock market. But if you were to go to the uh. The rural areas of India right today where um. You know thanks to the Jandan account uh Today we have 90 Indians covered in the gender account. Uh right. And but what has been missing is uh some kind of a credit score for them to even do lending. Uh what you've seen today is a lot of innovative methods in terms of uh. Let's say many of these digital platforms today uh where maybe even in the assistant model as what Lokhnath said also allows them to create some kind of a credit score based on the kind of transaction many of the partners have been able to do especially the merchants have been able to do. And uh. They have been NBFCs and organizations who've been able to give m small ticket size loans to suck to many of them uh especially to those uh merchants and retailers who didn't have any access to credit score uh did not have any formal credit score. So what you've been able to do is because of um. Because of trying to because been able to create alternative credit scores. Uh you've been able to uh you know ah. Offer credit the market to the deserving um and uh small merchants. So I think so it's been changing lives across especially the dad tried cities and also the youngsters in the country.

Speaker A: So even in the uh. Like uh the wealth space when we talk we were talking about uh the savings uh small savings. So I um was thinking that there can be something uh which uh. Let's say we all have seen that uh when you check out there is a donation kind of thing that you donate one rupee to the uh. Some charity which feeds uh the small children, orphan children's Etc. We can have like every time you are making a transaction let's say you are purchasing something on Amazon and while checkout I mean let's say the order size is 500800 rupees and you say okay uh 50 rupees or 80 rupees or 100 rupees goes to my savings. So I mean it can bring a behavior change uh without uh directly affecting because I mean people have to set aside certain amount start of the month that okay they will put this amount in the savings. While if you collect this kind of amount order to order you can have good chunk of savings without them impacting because let's say you are having something you are paying for 800 bucks for certain uh items yeah, there is not much harm if you spend 850 bucks at that point of time where 800 goes directly to your order uh value. But 50 rupees is saved somewhere maybe in the uh like small FD. And as and when the FD grows we can, I mean there is a lot of innovation over there. Be a good example of embedded finance

Speaker B: also when you see the embedded finance uh landscape with the you know, wide range of uh apps that are available and used across. So innovate democratizes the uh wealth creation, right? Because large number of people have access to these and uh, you know and then when you create a little bit of digital literacy around it, right. They are able to save and create that habit of investing. So that kind of creates a large number of wealth creators at the bottom of the pyramid. Right.

Speaker A: Uh so when we talk about, I mean good point. Uh bottom of the pyramid that is the term um generally uh we use for people who are uh not having access to credit, not having enough financial literacy uh or when we talk about financial inclusion those are the guys uh we are talking about. So one um major uh issue uh or one major thought uh process goes when we are serving those bottom of the pyramid is they are very very cost sensitive. So how do you think embedded finance lower the cost of transaction or um the acquisition cost to make these financial services more affordable uh to the people on the bottom of the pyramid.

Speaker B: See this basically embedded finance mostly works through digital infrastructure in automation, right. That makes the financial services cheaper, right?

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: It also reduces the operational costs which otherwise you would have uh kind of spent on creating a physical infrastructure. Also brings efficiencies through uh, you know digital means. So in this model let's say uh, you can do a payment lending remittance by a reduced fees right. That is also easily accessible to low income population. Uh so in a, let's uh say in a. If you need a short term small size loan for a small merchant to boost their sales, you know that can happen through the alternate data based uh embedded finance at BLS also we facilitate a lot of small merchants to avail working capital loans or agriculture based uh reliant loans from banks uh through these platforms.

Speaker A: Mr. Anand, anything to add to it?

Speaker C: No, I think uh, uh you know uh, you know I think uh today uh specifically in the uh you know specifically uh because uh uh base print we work very closely in terms of being the uh, you know API provider to a lot of these entrepreneurs with startup companies who are offering this service entire to the cities and uh, we're strongly seeing that uh many of the digital services have reduced. Have. And I think one of the, One of the main uh you know one of the main um uh advantages of the digital uh banking is to reduce cost. Right? You don't need to have physical bank branches in there to offer. You have uh merchants, you have those custom. You, you have those retailers out there who are also acting as. As. As uh you know banking points and they're doing all those services which typically a bank friendship would do. Typically right from a you know a uh cash out to cash in to opening a savings account, opening an fd, uh to you know, to. To I think uh. And even you know so, so I think uh they have, they have you know they've also been. And and that helps to reduce lot of cost and and offer services in all those areas which was quite difficult uh earlier. Um and thanks to, and I think thanks to uh you know uh we all know that um especially in India, Jan. That is the Jandan account Aadhar and the mobile penetration uh today has really changed the landscape especially in that life much more easier and people even access not only the various financial services uh but also you know and as you see today the smartphones in India is going up you know about 700 million to 900 million. Uh the quality of life is going up in rural areas and uh we see the need for much more uh in terms of financial services uh is going a bit tight. And I think the one best way to deal with this is digital banking which allows them to do it a much reduced cost. So yes it is transforming in a big way.

Speaker A: So the key takeaway is that uh the digital initiatives and digitization of uh these services that uh let's say Mr. Anand facilitates through APIs providing APIs. So that is reducing the physical uh footprint uh uh for the financial institutions to be present in every nook and corner uh of the uh land and thus uh reducing their capital expenditure, operational expenditure plus tapping into uh the distribution network of somebody else. Uh right. So that is reducing the cost of acquisition, marketing, etc uh I mean, so that is significantly reducing. I mean taking away two major chunks of cost that uh financial institutions face and that benefit can be passed on to the end consumer.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah. So uh, as we know I mean uh, nothing is perfect and uh, with all the good things comes their downside as well. So what do you see uh as uh the major challenges uh with the embedded finance uh in terms of risks, um uh data security, um the credit risk, business risks. So could you Throw some lights on the uh downsides that are there.

Speaker B: You know let's not call it a downside. You know, it's a challenge. Right.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, so see uh, the finance uh world is. Is fairly regulated.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And uh there are best practices on information security and you know um, ways to kind of uh thwart the cyber security risks and other risks uh associated with risks. Right. Whereas the non financial world uh works in a. Based on the market principles. Right. So marrying both to create embedded m. Finance has its own challenges.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So especially uh when getting into an embedded finance situation the the player has to any player which is a non finance as well as the finance players have to be aware of this and be transparent about uh the regulatory compliance issues as well as the you know that put that in the forefront of the collaboration.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Um, in India we have also the regulators are creating enablers for this.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So if you look at Bharat Connect which earlier used to be Bharat Bill Pay, you know it is coming out of the regulatory stable uh uh providing an interoperable platform for B2B invoicing, payments, collection and settlement. So once you register uh a business as a B2B it you can avail eg financing against uh your invoices as well as you know if you are a supplier uh or a buyer.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And it provides an interoperable environment to uh provide both reconciliation and dispute resolution as well. So that takes care of many of the regulatory and risk concerns.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Uh so. So in India I think regulators have also taken cognizance of uh the growth of embedded finance and come up with solutions. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, true. I mean regulations and uh, uh the uh. Uh like uh awareness and cognizance plays important role in mitigating uh majority of the risks. Uh uh. Mr. Anand, you work with the uh API. I mean you provide APIs. So uh. A lot of digital security aspects are also there. So could you thr. Uh your views on that front?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think uh rightly said uh you know, uh you know by M. Luknat I think there is a um. Uh. I think uh the regulator today in India has very clearly defined rules and regulations across uh. Right. And even in terms of API banking, um you know they're very clear set of guidelines and uh a set of regulations that that get followed. Uh you know and uh all of these banks that states that you work with uh have 100 compliance on all of those regulations especially in terms of the uh you know data security and all of the stuff. Uh. Right. And uh, and We've seen that um, you know and, and um. You know everybody and anybody in this, in this industry uh you know uh have to adhere to these guidelines and regulations with the clear cut adherence uh and regular audits that that does happen so as to ensure that uh you know all of these areas of concern especially in terms of uh security, in terms of uh you know, uh, especially in terms of uh, you know ensuring that you have data security there. You've got layers, you use encrypted data when you're doing most of the stuff across. Right? Because it's, it's the passage of money that's happening across the platform. Right. Uh and more importantly that the data of the customer, the consumer uh is. Is all um know. Is all uh, is all uh secure and it's not stored in any platforms. Right. Uh uh. So I think uh uh what we realize that um what we've seen that uh there's enough amount of uh you know regulations and benchmarks uh that's been set by the government and uh. Uh and uh. Uh also ensure that banks are closely monitoring many of them. Um and that gives us a good amount of work across. To work around these guidelines was to ensure that we follow many of them. Uh you know, and most of them I would say and then you know offer it across. Ensure there's a seamless kind of uh. Uh transaction which is safe, secure and uh. Uh where the transactions are safe and secure. And also the uh you know the data security uh around the customer is also safe and secure. So I think uh um uh uh. I think it's quite a comprehensive one and I think as somebody in this industry we take lot of effort and pride to ensure that we uh do things the right way.

Speaker A: That's great. So uh. We were, I mean when we were discussing about the financial inclusivity we were talking about people in the rural areas. People uh which are like uh uh not part uh of formal and traditional uh financial services ecosystem. So over there I mean we, we

Speaker C: talked about the uh.

Speaker A: The financial literacy point as well. So how do you see uh uh the uh embedded finance fostering uh financial literacy or helping them make people more aware about financial services, how it works, uh, increasing the transparency, etc. Any views on the.

Speaker B: Basically see the embedded finance comes part of a platform.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Whether it's uh a digital platform or a uh physical platform backed by digital platform.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: In either case um, you know there is, there are ways to educate people, you know to make them aware of uh you know, uh. Also for transparency reasons.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: One is for their education as well as for transparency reasons.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: The pricing and other aspects of it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So either uh, you know one can build these uh education through easy uh to understand uh tutorials or a video. You know it has to be contextual information which they are you know comfortable with. If somebody is uh, comfortable with a user experience of uh an app, you know it has to be built in that same user experience uh with the contextual information. Right. Or if, if it's a touch point where uh we are creating literacy then possibly a camp is conducted you know and provide in that context.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Um, uh the information and uh, once it is a user friendly environment of learning, people tend to kind of grasp it better and quicker and uh, you know the embedded finance then becomes very successful and uh, you know it grows in a transparent way.

Speaker C: Right, right, right.

Speaker A: Uh anything Mr. Anand.

Speaker C: Yeah, so, so I think uh, you know uh, if, if I go back to 15 uh years of uh financial inclusion space. I remember those early days where uh the BC came into being and uh, where uh, you would typically spend a lot of effort in terms of creating awareness, especially rural areas, uh maybe in terms of posters, in terms of road shows or whatever you were doing. So a lot of groundwork had happened. If uh, you really look back uh 15, 18 years back, uh and I think all of that effort today has created a system where there's at least uh a lot of these awareness across um uh on banking, uh, you know across India especially uh the rural areas. And I think UPI has also changed the way India works thanks to Jandan account obviously. But I think uh today we see a lot of, even in the, in the Taipo cities, UPI being seamlessly getting used across you know uh, by various uh, you know probably small towns and villages using UPI very very uh effortlessly. Um, and uh, so we've seen and I think uh, when some of these usages come into play we see people becoming more aware. And as I said India is a young nation. So uh, today youngsters are more prone to understanding what's happening based on the racial space. So, so we've seen uh and that has been really been a good uh understanding in terms of what's been, what's really been happening across um in many of these uh you know uh rural areas. Um so today I feel uh awareness levels are there very much high. Uh their bank accounts there, people are able to use it. Um and people are um, understanding the need for uh financial services. Right. And also more importantly uh investments are investing um. Right uh and I think all of these especially the embedded finance space is really helping them to uh, to really really uh, you know to do it. Uh you know um, as we uh. In fact I was reading some stats saying that today uh in India uh you know um, you know iPhones, 70 of iPhones are on EMIs. Right. So uh, you know one uh, of which, which was supposed to be the most premium product, 70 of them actually is on VPMI. Right. And that is thanks to embedded finance, thanks to platform like uh Amazon Flipkarts where on uh E Commerce platform actually became a uh, you know a platform where people are being able to get better financial uh you know uh services. So so these are the advantages uh and that has led to India being one of the big growth economy uh markets for iPhones today. So I think yes uh, it is helping supporting training, employment and all the stuff it's complete ecosystem working on to make all things happen. So uh, it's always been uh. Some of these are very good examples of how India's really shaping it.

Speaker A: All right, so I mean good, thank you for the stat you posted. I mean the 70% of iPhones are on EMIs. So it uh, incites my curiosity uh, which we have not discussed in this discussion so far. It is about uh the behavior of the consumers. So because whenever these kind of things come so uh, again depends on individual to individual taking an EMI can be a good decision as well as a bad decision. So it is somehow shaping the behavior of these consumers.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So how do you see uh like uh the effect of embedded finance on the consumer behavior and uh their uh financial management of financial discipline. And how do you see uh like what can be done uh to shape it and shape it in a uh positive direction rather than deteriorating it. So for example a careless uh spending uh because buy now, pay later is available at your discretion. So that can be a deteriorating shift uh in consumer behavior. On the other hand if uh uh there is avenues to uh increase your savings or take a uh insightful uh decisions on uh like uh, let's say taking a ah buy an operator or EMI kind of product, on building an asset or acquiring the skill, uh acquiring and skill is an investment and if somebody cannot afford it and EMI is available very easily uh within the edtech platform or something. So these can be the positive directions uh for consumer behaviors. So how do you see uh embedded finance affecting, I mean how much in your experience it affects uh their behavior and how the uh organizations, entrepreneurs can be more uh responsible and uh like enabler of positive shift in their behavior.

Speaker B: See if you look, it's also about maturity of the uh, you know, the, the economy and the population.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Towards finance as such. Right. So if you look at the journey of our country over the last 15, 18 years with two, two specific uh, sides of story happening. One is the financial inclusion story where you know, m. Almost, you know, majority of the households have been covered with a bank account and they have seen the uh, benefits of small savings remittances coming to them, getting a small credit or doing, you know, uh, small, uh, types of savings like a flex recurring deposit or a, you know, a fixed deposit or things like that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So over time, uh, they have built, uh, you know, millions and millions of people have built a uh, small portfolio of savings within their, you know, accounts. So the next level is kind of to create uh, awareness and uh, also to provide that customer convenience where they see that, you know, this, the, these finance tools are helping them in their uh, lives and their businesses, you know, even if they are running a small business. So slowly, slowly this habit formation happens which then graduates from savings to budgeting, to you know, even investing, you know, for future. So uh, you know, it's a process. Uh, I think we are at a good stage as a country, you know, having reached to so many people through uh, both the financial inclusion mechanisms as well as the fintech mechanisms through various platforms. Right. So now, now it's about kind of creating those habits, uh, step by step within the uh, these platform.

Speaker C: Yes, I mean, I mean, um, I remember, uh, once, um, I was having a chat with one of the vendors and um, uh, you know, in Bangalore, uh, and uh, and he was using, correcting you know, payments through uh, uh, qr. And I was very curious and I was checking, I was just, I chatted up and asking, uh, now we're collecting money through qr. The money is directly going to the bank account. Is it helping you or uh, is it creating more hurdles to you. Are you, are you happy or not happy with what's happening around? Uh, and curiously I heard him say that earlier when I used to manage to get cash, pure cash. Right. Uh, my ability to uh, I would probably spend uh, much more money because I would really not know money was cash in hand. I would really spend money. Uh, but today, uh, because the money directly go into my account, my ability to save is much higher. Right. And uh, you know, and I could, I could relate that uh, you know, he's been able to understand that the money in the bank account, uh, you know, he's been able to create savings out of it. So uh, you know uh. So any um, you know any services or any, Any uh you know idea would always have pluses uh and minus. I mean the coins always have two sides of it. Right. There are a lot of. And I think today as I speak the more positive than negatives in terms of how it is. It has been helping and shaping people uh in terms of savings in terms of being able to uh ah you know able to get loans uh uh enabled to you know get insurance, are able to even to do savings. Right. Uh but obviously I mean some of these platforms would uh you know create impulsive buying and a lot of other stuff. Uh you know and I think these are some downsides of it. But I think uh if you look at the overall, overall perspective the way it has changed uh you know in terms of uh services, financial services, in terms of banking services, in terms of ability to. To uh, you know to save and ability to use better utilization of money that these guys are uh earning. I think uh you'll always see it's more of a win win situation. Right. And uh, as said it's uh also about maturity. Right. Some of these things will mature at some stage of life. Uh some of them might be new users by the time they get used to it uh and they experience it uh but they also mature into understand what's rightful to do it. So only I can see is going. I mean, I mean long run. I think it's a very good move and it really help not only the individual in terms of uh his savings and his uh you know his financial uh uh you know savings but also I think uh you know uh will make it much more mature in terms of what to use, what not to use. So it's a win win in the long run.

Speaker A: Great, great. So uh, although I mean it is very difficult to predict future but uh uh how do you see uh the future uh embedded finance where it is going, uh what potential innovations we can see in coming future. Uh based on your experience in the industry so far, I mean what do you see?

Speaker B: See the future seems uh bright for this uh particularly edge. More and more sectors open up to this embedded finance. Right. Uh like the E Commerce kind of opened it up then you know you have other uh players as well like the FMCG or you know uh other other industries that come into it. Uh you know also there are a lot more innovation that is happening around the AI blockchain uh space because you have so much of alternate data that is emerging out of these platforms. Right. And uh, you know there are several type of transactions that are happening. Real time payments that are happening, UPI happening. You know there are billions of transactions that are happening. So this data will also lend itself to creating embedded finance alternate models driven by AI and blockchain over time. So you know there is stupendous growth in front of us, you know in this space particularly.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean if you were to look at the, you know if we look at the uh, future. Right. I think uh, there is a win win for everybody. If you look at the financial institutions for example, right. One is it's uh, they get to use a large consumer pool. They're getting a large consumer pool to work at. Uh, they're getting additional revenue streams out of it. Right. If you look at the brands, our uh, companies were able to take it one, um, there's a lot of data available now, a lot of analytical data coming in which obviously can lead to creation of new, new revenue streaks. Right. Uh, a lot of new business opportunities which are uh, growing up and more importantly many of these platforms, uh, because they're able to give evident finances is leading to improved loyalty. Right. So uh, you know you end up being much more loyal to the platform in terms of. Because you're able to access so many services including maybe credit at some point of the time. Uh and I think for consumers at the end of the day and then especially for consumers, uh, it's like better accessibility for sure. Uh, right. Um, and um, you know obviously because everything is available in a single platform are they able to access a lot of these services. It also helps them to save cost. Right. And more importantly it's a great user experience. Right. So it's, it's a, it's a, it's a classic great user experience. They're able to use it across. So whether it's a financial situation for brands or even for customers consumers, I think uh, for everybody there's a lot of win win interest. It uh, so I can only see that this will only grow much more than what it is happening now. And there many more use cases that are building up. I mean as I said BNPL is one, uh, lending is one. I talked about Amazon as a one uh today a platform that cred offer you a uh, small ticket loan just because of your payments in credit cards. Uh who would think that just because paying credit cards will get lend you get loans, right? Nobody thought so. But today people have been able to innovate those innovative ways of doing it. Because the data is available. Uh. Right. And because of data being available you're able to offer some specialized services which is specific to somebody who's let's just pay these credit card bills. So we'll see much more such use cases happen across the industry and people uh will come back and uh create a lot of these specific use cases uh using the embedded finance. So so I see a lot of work, a lot of exciting uh you know innovation happening in this space.

Speaker A: All right, all right. So I mean we discussed a lot of things around embedded finance. How it helps in financial inclusion, uh inclusion for credit, inclusion for ah wealth, increasing the awareness of the end consumer, increasing financial literacy. Uh we also discussed about what are the different challenges that are posed when we do embedded finance and uh how uh potentially we can mitigate it through regulations and uh the data security practices. We also learned how uh it changes the, the pricing dynamics of uh the financial products by uh making them more affordable, reducing the uh operational expenditures and uh like uh the acquisition costs etc. So it was a very uh insightful discussion uh uh later half we discussed uh uh how it is shaping up the behavior of the consumer and how uh the things uh will mature and make it more uh in the positive direction uh and what lies in the future. So I would like uh to thank you uh Mr. Loknath and Mr. Anand for your valuable insight and for being part of today's discussion. I'm sure our listeners would uh have gained a lot of uh useful takeaways uh from the conversation and uh we will be back soon with another exciting topic. Until then thank you uh for tuning in. Uh this is Hemant signing off. Have a great day. Thank you.

Speaker C: Thanks a lot.

Speaker B: Thanks a lot.