Engage Epi.FUN.Ny™ - Interview with MJ Reiners

Speaker A: The Engaged Company Culture podcast is all about how you, as a leader, whether you have the title or don't, can help engage your company culture in a way that people are excited to be at work, yourself included. Listen to this podcast or view the video in order to gain resources, tips and tricks and stories of, uh, how companies have reached higher levels of engagement and how you can do it too. Remember to like, review rate, subscribe and most of all, share this podcast with other people you think will benefit. Enjoy today's episode thank you for tuning

Speaker B: in to this week's Engaged Company Culture Podcast episode. My guest today is MJ M. Reiners. MJ M helps leaders and organizations make change stick. After 20 years of leading large scale transformation projects, the largest being $350 million with over 200 team members, MJ created the epiphany Factory Discovery Model to help people change better, faster and cheaper. I'm, um, going to mention here that she spells epiphany different from the way most dictionaries spell it. She has fun in the middle of it in large capital letters instead of your P, H A N, Y. It's Epiphany Discovery Model. I'm excited to have MJ with us today because she knows that change is speeding up our future. Our, uh, business success all depends on how well we adapt to new technologies, new business structures, and new policies and laws. Mj, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker C: Thank you, Dr. Catherine, I'm so excited and it's an honor to be here with you. Thank you.

Speaker B: I would like first to understand how you came to Epiphany spelled with fun in the center, if you're willing to share that with us.

Speaker C: Uh, there weren't like expert books or expertise, uh, to consult as I was learning how to deal with change and to help people adapt through change. So the past several years I've been kind of focusing on synthesizing a lot of these lessons learned as well as my own experiences for people. And I had a coach I was working with and I've often talked about how if I can help someone engineer an epiphany, it really could help organizations avoid some of the common pitfalls that many, many have gone before them and experience. And that's my mission and my goal. And I wanted to trademark the concept, the idea, and I don't know if you've tried to trademark anything, Dr. Catherine.

Speaker B: It's really hard.

Speaker C: So you have to find a quirky little way to, um, to spell it or, you know, or a different word that doesn't really mean anything. But I loved the word epiphany. And uh, so I put the word fun in the middle of it with capitals and I inserted some, some periods. And it's so funny because uh, this, I think I trademarked it about four or five years ago and my daughter was a teenage. She's like, oh, that is so horrible. That's so gross. I'm like, okay, perfect. That's what I knew it was a good trademark is because it would capture somebody's attention. But thanks for bringing that up. It's a fun little tidbit, uh, how that came to be because it's memorable.

Speaker B: That is absolutely fantastic. It made your teen miserable and everybody else says, oh, what a beautiful.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Looked at it.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: So you mentioned that you were noticing a lot of patterns, a lot of pitfalls that businesses were experiencing. What are the trends that you noticed that made you want to help them overcome?

Speaker C: Well, change is really hard and it takes a lot of advanced uh, um, practice and thinking. And my model, the Epiphany Factory is really an energy engineering model because so many organizations jump right into change and take action immediately. And what I'm helping organizations with in order to make change stick, which is a phrase I use all the time, it's is to start with your energy first. You know, what kind of beliefs do we need to have in order to be successful? What kind of emotional energies do we need to have? You know, camaraderie and joy, finding meaning in our work as we come together as teams and also to take intelligent action. Which ties a lot into your common reasons, uh, why people don't succeed in their corporate world is that that gap between reflection and work. So that's actually part of the model that I talk about. So I thought there were a lot of synergies in what you're teaching and consulting on as well as a component of my energy model is intelligent action is to help take mindful action and to get the results that we want. Thinking about that target that we're really syncing up for. Um, and then there's technique which is taking skillful action. So it's mindful action combined with skillful action. And then when we pull all these together, organizations and teams can get into flow into a change experience and to develop a more optimal experience with a change effort before you actually kick something off. And you've already pre designed, you've pre engineered your energy with your thoughts, your emotions and the actions that you will take in the future so that you can get to change and to have it be a more successful adaption process. 70% of all change initiatives fail. And there's lots and lots of reasons for those, but some of them are the same similar change problems, uh, that you mentioned you're for. But when we align our energy mentally, emotionally and physically, before we take that action, we can be much more successful. While change, it is speeding up, it doesn't have to be painful. And so many organizations have had really painful change experiences. And so we collectively, we, we fear change. That's part of our human nature and how our brains actually work. But we can help each other overcome that. But when we have change failures, um, people resist even, even more so. But when we align our energy, we can be more successful. And the model that I developed is to help organizations do that energy engineering work before they take action so they can have better results, reach their change goals faster, cheaper, with a lot less pain. Because change doesn't have to be painful.

Speaker B: If we get out ahead of it

Speaker C: and we have developed our skills, we can be much more successful with change.

Speaker B: I love it. Thank you. I admit, the thing that stands out to me the most because it aligns directly with the appreciative inquiry and appreciative intelligence that I teach is the mindful action. Appreciative intelligence focuses on being aware of the strengths that you're using, the teams that you're creating, the individuals that you have in mind. So that mindful action builds on the appreciative intelligence as you step forward.

Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. I love that. And, and where our strengths are, and then where, where did we perhaps have, um, you know, negative experiences with change and how do we overcome that and then build something bigger in a more positive way? It doesn't mean what happened in the past is going to happen in the future. So if we don't acknowledge that previous past, um, it can bog us down and can kind of consume us a little bit more than we want, Making future change harder and harder for when we're battling that. But, um, I often say make peace with the past, you know, and honor it because it did happen for a reason. There's something to be learned there. But we can take that and move forward with more technology, advanced, um, skills, advanced learning, new policies, organization structures. All of those things can be way more successful. But we shouldn't ignore those lessons that we have. We should use them and then build on that to go forward.

Speaker B: I completely agree. Absolutely. Every experience that we have had can be turned to our benefit. We just need to reframe it, look at it in a new light so that we can rewrite our current understanding, redesign our future, and to make peace with our past. Because we can in fact make peace with it. We can learn from it. The past brought us to the present. It does not dictate the Future.

Speaker C: Yes, yes, 100%. Huh. I don't even like the word failure. But we use it anyway, right? Um, but I always say find the fruit in that failure, you know, and use that fruit to be your springboard to go forward.

Speaker B: Yes. I've heard people working to put a positive spin on failure, making an acronym out of the word fail. I actually really like that. I've heard the acronym first attempt in learning. I have changed that to further attempts in learning because we need to be able to stack on our failures.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Another one that I recently rediscovered is For All I've Learned.

Speaker C: That's a good one.

Speaker B: Yes. And I wish I could remember who I could credit with that because I just love it. And that comes back to exactly what you were saying. We get to build on the failures. We get to embrace the failures because they're only failures that knock us down if we don't take the lessons that we've learned and build on them.

Speaker C: Completely. Agree? Yes, Dr. Katherine, agree.

Speaker B: Thank you. I love that you have done so much to help organizations. You actually have even told me that you have a Make Change Stick video series. I would love to hear about that. I think our audience would be interested too.

Speaker C: Well, thank you. Um, I developed a, ah, video series. It's an interactive experience where I help people understand the seven forces that are included in the Epiphany Factory. But I do it in a way that brings it back to their own personal experiences. Because all of us have had change experiences in corporate world. And I help them to think back what that experience was like. What did they hear, what did they see? You know, some of those beliefs, getting at some of those thoughts, those feelings, you know, was it successful? Not successful. And so it's, uh, an interactive one hour or two hours. It's fully comprehensive. I take the listener through all seven of the seven forces. They get some exercises and some stories that, um, I bring in from my own personal experience. They can walk through it on their own pace, but if they sign up and, uh, put their email in, it'll automatically drip out. The videos drip out. And the first four are some content ones, but they're about five to ten minutes each. And they'll get a little bit of better understanding what the seven forces are and what the epiphany Factory is all about. And they get two tools that they can use in their day to day work right now that they can start working with to improve any sort of change effort that they're involved with.

Speaker B: Anytime we want change to happen, we need to be able to apply it immediately. I completely agree. Which is why 70% of change, uh, initiatives fail. Because it's so much easier to stay in an uncomfortable comfort zone, which is a phrase that I love to use and maintain the current status quo than to make the changes that are going to excel you forward and help you and your organization really to grow.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And I use that um, phrase all the time and that's part of my leadership style is, um, getting people out of their comfort zone. But my whole philosophy on that is in an empowered way. I don't want to throw somebody into the deep end where it's a little bit too steep or too deep.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I want to be there and support them. Because change is hard. It just is. And a lot of times we are very enamored by a new idea or a new opportunity. But as soon as we realize it's going to be some require us to change our behavior, then we're like, you know, then, then not so much. And this happens to us as individuals or even, you know, as teams and in corporations. So you must have a support involved with uh, that individual if they're learning a new skill or a group going through a change effort. So I'm very big on, um, getting out of your comfort zone, but also in an empowered way, you know, where they've got the right expertise helping them, the right mentors, the right support structure, um, so that they can continue to advance forward. Because otherwise people will resort back to the status quo if it's too, uh, hard. If it's too hard, they're going to move back. And so I often try to put in my checkpoints along the way, checking in with people, what are they thinking, feeling, seeing, what are they experiencing? Because when they have a positive change experience, that's what's going to propel them forward. So the epiphany factory is divine, is designing the energy in those experiences before someone is, um, has to physically go through it so they're successful. So you're setting up a good training experience for somebody if they have to learn a new technology and you're there to support them. You know, you're setting up, you know, good feedback sections for organizations going through corporate mergers, you know, to understand the cultural differences and how people think, feel and Experience, so you can blend those and work off the good of those things that come together versus only the things that are really, really radically different. Um, so with the proper support, you can get people out of their comfort zone and they can continue to grow and have better skills to meet even further advanced challenges.

Speaker B: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. Now, you've mentioned the seven forces of the Epiphany Factory. Precisely what are those? Does that include the mindful action and such?

Speaker C: I'm, um, happy to send you the two tools that you can send out to your audience members so they can have that in front of them. Because it's a little bit to remember. I define a force as an energy with a particular quality. And so the first force is power. You know, power is taking our power. It's part of our energy. Willpower might be a good way to think of it, but power includes our ability to see a vision and to believe in that vision. And then the second one is governance. And power and governance work well together. These are the two mental energies, if you will. And governance for a large change effort within an organization is often the really one that organizations, uh, find the most complex and really tricky. I just try to simplify it as best I can and have it be. Think of the rules, the rules that you want to apply for your change effort. And they can be rules of engagement, they can be formal policies. They can just be norms of how we're going to come together and how we're going to communicate. But governance and power work together because change. I'm, um, often asked, is change top down or is it bottom up? And it's both. You have to have that vision and that purpose from leaders, one or more leaders of where we're headed, as well as the governance of how you're going to have grassroots support. Support that. And how are the grassroots support going to come together and make decisions? So those two work together. Those are your two mental energies, if you will. The emotional ones are camaraderie. And so camaraderie is that deep trust that people who are working together have for each other and a commitment. So it's, it's that force, that energy of, uh, I am willing to go above and beyond myself for the sake of my team members. And so it's not just team. Uh, we have lots and lots of team building. But camaraderie is going a little bit further and really saying, hey, I got to do the best job I can do because Dr. Catherine needs this for me by Friday. And understanding those dependencies really helping to solidify that camaraderie among the team. Then there's joy, which is similar to camaraderie, but joy is that force of feeling for a cause or believing in a particular mission, believing in your work, that you're willing to go above and beyond yourself for that cause. I had an experience one time where I was working with an organization during Hurricane Katrina. So this goes back a bit. And, uh, there was a hospital there that worked with community leaders, public, uh, service leaders, all physicians of the community, to pull together a Mobile Hospital in three days. They stood this thing up in three days to serve over 27,000 patients in the community who had no health care. And the biggest thing that they had to provide during this hurricane was eyeglasses, because so many people had lost their eyeglasses, you know, in the storm. So this was a way or a story that I tell often because this is bringing together joy. So joy of providing that service to the community, community, as well as bringing camaraderie together, because this hospital had not worked with community leaders, government leaders before. So everybody came together, and so together that really created a powerful goodwill. And they got it done in two to three days. Which shows that when people are that deeply committed, you can overcome incredible odds of getting something done and really great work. Then the third pillar is your physical pillar, and that's taking both mindful action, which I call intelligent action, so similar to your, uh, way that you phrase it, and then also technique, which is your skillful action. Because, one, you want focused energy. That's your intent, your, uh, intelligent action. And then your technique is you don't want to waste your time, you know, you want to hold and preserve your energy, and so you want to do it well. And so that means the people on your team need to have the right skills. They need to have the right, uh, experience and the mentors helping them. Not that trial and error never happens. It does. But trial and error is exhausting over time. So people need the right skills and the abilities. They need the right education and skills to get changed, to work and together working with the intelligent action. So those are the two physical ones, and then the last one is called flow. And so that is when mental, emotional, and physical energies all come together in an optimal experience to help people get out of their comfort zones and to do it successfully. I tell a quick story about a, uh, gentleman who worked for me, and he came to me and he said, mj, I. I just cannot present in front of this group. I literally, I start to have panic attacks. And I can feel in the soles of my feet, I can feel my heart beating with him within the soles of my feet. And I'm like, Joey, he was young. He was really young out of college. And I said, joey, I, uh, I get it. I have struggled with that in myself. But you have the technical expertise. He had the technique, right? And you need to train my clients with this. So I'll work with you. We're going to set you up with some positive experiences. We're going to have you do some dry runs with some team members, so, you know, building that camaraderie and practice. And he put in the work, he did the sacrifices, and he worked really hard. And he slowly but surely, he gained more confidence, more skill. You know, he started to enjoy speaking in front of the customers. And he ultimately comes back to me at the end of this project, and he's like, mj, I now enjoy what I'm doing. I. I really, um, have learned so, so much. And what I shared with him is you reached a point of flow. You reached a point where you enjoy your work to the point that you want to keep doing it. He goes, put me back in, coach. I want more. I want more. So I was just so proud of him. And that's kind of the example of what flow is like, is getting out of our comfort zone and reaching higher skill with support so that you actually want to continue to grow and reach new heights and be able to do more challenging change projects. So those are the seven forces that make up the Epiphany Factory, and that's all included in my free video series. So if your audience wants to learn more or refresh by watching that, I highly encourage them to explore that.

Speaker B: Oh, that is fantastic. I love that. It all comes back to enjoying work and enjoying what you're doing. That joy is part of the journey, and flow is a recognition of joy. One of the things that I really am on a mission to encourage is joy at work. And that can be done with your seven forces. It can be done using appreciative intelligence. It can be done with making peace with your past. It's. It all comes together as you. As you reframe, rewrite, and redesign and really work on these. These different forces. And look at your pillars. You can make change. Stick to the point that throw me in coach. I want more. I, uh, want to keep doing this. I'm helping people. I'm learning, I'm growing. I'm encouraging change while experiencing change. It sticks. And then that comfort zone is easier to get out of. And it also grows.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: With more things.

Speaker C: Right, right. I, you and I have a lot of the same, uh, wavelength. Dr. Catherine.

Speaker B: Yes, we do.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, you know, we read a lot about burnout and about, um, the great resignation, you know, which was last year and such. And it's my personal opinion that people are wanting more out of work that is beyond the physical. So obviously we have to have benefits and salaries and things like that, and those are really important. But people want more creative experiences. They want to be able to bring more of their whole self to work. And a phrase I use a lot is share their art with people. And so when we have organization change projects, this is an excellent time to practice something within your own organization that you can learn these skills and practice these seven forces. And by designing something on the front end of a project, people get way more creative and they're lifted up by using higher energies. And that turns out to be so much more fun and planning and doing that energy engineering doesn't take weeks and months. You know, it depends on the size of the project. Some, um, like that 350 million project I did. Yeah, we spent a year, we spent a year doing all of that planning before we took action and kicked it off.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: But not every project is like that, you know, but, you know, just working that energy engineering at the front end of the project is going to make the whole thing go smoother and, and then there's far less burnout and less headaches. Again, it's not pain free. It's not, uh, error free. You're going to have bumps. That's just part of the process and what you're going to learn from. But you grow from that as well. But, uh, you can engineer out a lot of those common pitfalls by thinking about it and planning for it before you take action. So again, it's connecting reflection with work. You and I are talking about similar things. I talk about it from an energy perspective. But when you can pull that together and do some of that energy planning in advance, you're really setting yourself up for some great success.

Speaker B: Oh, I love it. Thank you. Now I'm, um, going to have all of your links in the show notes, but what is your preferred or what is the best way for somebody to connect with you?

Speaker C: So you can look me up@, uh, summerlandeducation.com and I've got lots of free resources there. Um, I've got the video link there. I also have a paid course, so if you are interested in learning more and having more, um, skill developed by doing more exercises. That's a paid course that you can access through my website as well. I encourage you to sample it out with the freebie first, and then you can grow from there. Um, I'm writing a book, and that'll be out in the fall, so I'll be, uh, sharing all of that on, you know, with you so that we can, uh, share that with your audiences. When I get that written. It's called, um, Engineering and Epiphany. That's the name of the book. And Also I'm on LinkedIn as MJ reiners, so your folks can reach out to me in any of those venues, and I look forward to connecting with them.

Speaker B: Perfect. Of all the things that we've discussed, what is the main thing you want people to remember from our conversation?

Speaker C: Well, I, I really encourage people to start developing their change skills now. Um, change is speeding up. It's happening everywhere. And there's nothing more painful than when you have no Runway. And you know, when change is forced upon you, when change is mandated, that's a painful experience. Nobody likes that. So I encourage people to develop your change skills now. Start practicing now. Um, because, you know, in five years, 10 years, 20 years, you don't know when you're going to need them. I believe that these change skills are universal. They help us in our professional, professional lives as well as our personal lives. Um, so I encourage people to invest in themselves, um, learn and grow your skills. Build your resilience and your adaptability, um, because change is speeding up. And when change is done well, it's actually fun. It's not something that we have to fear. And it doesn't have to be painful. When you get out ahead of it, that's when you can succeed and it can be a really fun experience. But just encourage your audience to invest in themselves and start developing their change skills.

Speaker B: Thank you. I absolutely love that change can be fun when it's done well, if you plan properly for it and start developing your change skills now. I like that. Developing your change skills.

Speaker A: I just.

Speaker B: I love that phrase. It, ah, just resonates with me.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for being here today. I hope that everybody who has been viewing or listening gains as much from this as I have. You brought insights, you've brought stories, you've brought actionable things that we all can do to strengthen our change muscles. Everybody listening. Go forth. Make change stick. Reframe, rewrite, and redesign your life, both personally and professionally. Thank you.

Speaker C: M.J. thank you Dr. Catherine.

Speaker A: I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Engaged Company Culture as much as I enjoyed recording it. Remember, you always can change your company culture or continue your company culture to higher levels of engagement and, uh, joy at work. So not only do the people around you enjoy their work, but you look forward to Mondays as well. Please remember to like, subscribe, rate, review and most of all, share Engaged Company Culture podcast, especially this episode. If you received value.