How to Bypass Universal Red Tape for Fast Emergency Drone Deployment with Elsa Klarich

Speaker A: We need to be able to fly beyond visual line of sight right now. So let's just do that and figure out what happens next.

Speaker B: Welcome to Dromecast. Today we're excited to have Elsa Clarich, a truly pioneering figure in the world of aviation and drone technology. She then transitioned to unmanned aerial Systems and deployed into Afghanistan in 2021 for reconnaissance and surveillance missions.

Speaker A: Aviation provided me with that, uh, tool to be able to serve the world. As the industry is growing at such an incredibly quick pa, it still has a long ways to go.

Speaker B: You're not playing checkers, you're definitely playing chess. Right. You're really thinking it through in the whole board and what the next steps, four or five steps ahead is going to be.

Speaker A: What does that look like when you have thousands of aircraft in the sky? What does that look like in the future?

Speaker B: Welcome to Dromecast. Today we're excited to have Elsa Klarich, a truly pioneering figure in the world of aviation and drone technology. Elsa's career spans both over humanity. Elsa's career spans both over humanitarian work and cutting edge drone operations, having served both as a bush pilot in Tanzania and Kenya, where she used aircraft to support critical missions for Wings of Hope and flying medical service. She then transitioned to unmanned Aerial systems, becoming an instructor, operator and maintainer of Arielson drone program and deployed into Afghanistan in 2021, uh, for reconnaissance and surveillance missions. In addition to her, uh, aviation work, Elsa founded Light and Earth LLC to provide consulting and aviation humanitarian efforts in conservation, and also established Ash Love Project, a nonprofit dedicating to improving health and education for women and children in East Africa. Elsa's unique blend of expertise in aviation's drones and humanitarian efforts makes her a valuable voice in shaping the future of drones and public safety and global relief work. Welcome to dronecast, Elsa. It's great to have you.

Speaker A: Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.

Speaker B: Excellent. And, you know, we were just talking about this. Uh, thanks again. I know it's evening in your time zone and morning in mine, so really appreciate you taking the moment here. I know you already got some pups trying to get you to take you out tonight, so, uh, I just. Hey, thanks again for taking the time.

Speaker A: Thank you. No, it's great. I love this subject. Love, um, aviation, anything to do with airplanes. So, um, I'm really happy to be able to talk about it.

Speaker B: Excellent. Now, you've had such a fascinating journey in aviation, from being a bush pilot in Africa to working with Unmanned Aerial Systems, uas. What initially sparked your passion for aviation. And how did that interest evolve into a focus on drones?

Speaker A: Yeah, so, um, you know, it's. People ask me this a lot, and I kind of change it up every time. M. Because I'm, like, you know, tired of hearing myself speak about it. But honestly, I. My initial interest in aviation was sparked, um, really due to the incredible opportunities, um, you can. You can have in aviation, um, to help people in remote locations around the world. So whether that's delivering medical supplies, food supplements, or, um, you know, taking doctors and nurses and clinical officers into these remote areas of the world, um, aviation provided me with that, uh, tool to be able to serve the world. Um, and so by being able to reach these areas, I was able to actually go out, be with indigenous people groups in East Africa. And then I was able to, uh, to take, uh, these. These medicines and to take, um, these food supplements for malnourished babies into these areas and really make a difference, um, in Tanzania especially, um, so in areas that would otherwise not be able to. We'd not be able to reach with normal transportation.

Speaker B: Wow. Now that. That's a, uh, I get the chance to speak to a lot of different people in this industry and adjacent industries, all of this, and everyone has an incredible story. But goodness gracious, Elsa, uh, this is amazing. And I mean, and you get to see it from all different angles. And actually using the tool of aviation right like that. That's. I love hearing it. And, you know, I'm just the. The enthusiast geek. Like, you're actually using this for good. I love it. I love this story. Now, you've worked with drone operations in various regions, including Africa, Latin America and beyond. How did drone operations or how did drone regulations differ across these regions? And what trends are you seeing in the development of drone policies in the Global South?

Speaker A: Yeah, so this was a really great question, um, that I, you know, had to. I have to really think about this question, um, because in. As the industry is growing at such an incredibly quick pace, um, it still has a long ways to go. And I worked in regions across the globe. I worked with civil aviation authorities, um, who are working up to keep up with this innovation and with this technology, and many of whom normally have really small teams of people. So they have really small teams working on UAS regulations, and they're trying to make these UAS regulations really good. They're working so hard to develop the regulations and policy that are going to work within their country. So for the most part, many of these regions are aligning with icao. You're seeing that they're working with the uh, International Civil Aviation Organization and are watching and trying to uh, create um, regulations that are successful. Um, and they're watching the Global north. So the Global south is watching the Global north and how they're doing it. So the leaders in aviation, we're looking at the faa, we're looking at easa, we're looking at the UK and seeing well, what's going well and what's not going well. But uh, a few trends and focus areas that I'm seeing happening the most, um, across the globe. The Global south especially, but also in the Global north would be safety and security mitigation meas. So a lot of people ask me about counter UAs. They're like, well we know that you're a proponent of uas, but how, what are we doing with counter UAS and how can we create safe, um, and secure, secure areas for uh, drone operations? We're talking about UTM and air traffic management. So the unmanned traffic management, um, that's something that everyone's looking at next for BV loss operations that beyond visual line of sight. And so, uh, um, those are a couple of the key hot topics right now that everyone's talking about. And then of course like advanced air mobility. Um, but you know, we have to start at the basics. We have to start at the, at the foundation. And so really we need solid, good regulations in place to be able to create a safe and secure area for the drone ecosystem. Um, to be able to have safe, uh, safe UTM and air traffic management practices and then to be able to integrate air, advanced air mobility into, into the airspace. So um, you know, those are some of the things that I'm, that I'm definitely talking to a lot of people about. We're working on doing courses and trying to get people current and build um, the Global south up to really be able to be the leaders in aviation. And that's something that's really cool and that I'm seeing happening in ah, these developing, these developing countries that are, that are really working on advancing the drone industry. So yeah, the UAS and RPAS space is pretty incredible.

Speaker B: Wow, that's excellent. And you really do get to see what works best all over the globe right now and implement that. I really like this. It's an amazing approach too and uh, getting to see all of it. Uh, so that's great. Now how do, uh, how do international organizations such as the International Civil Aviation Organization or ICAO influence the development of drone policy standards?

Speaker A: Um, so how I see it, um, you know ICAO has a major, has really a major role to play, um, in influencing um, the development of UAS regulations and policy. So icao, uh, is a recommending body. They recommend ways of doing things and they're helping to shape the way of the Global south and how the Global south develops regulations. Most people you're going to talk to in any of the aviation realms, you're going to, you're going to be able to talk about ICAO and say like, oh, well, you know, we're, we're in line with uh, with ICAO standards. Um, so by utilizing ICAO's UAS regulation, uh, guidelines, recommended regulations and guidelines, um, many working groups are coming together, usually uh, what I see by region, um, in the Global south. And they're able to then work together, having kind of this guideline to actually go through line by line and develop and design regulations that are specific to their countries. So this is really a wonderful tool for caas and national aviation authorities to be able to utilize. Um, so when I'm, you know, working with them, uh, I do remind them that it's imperative that these regulations are developed specifically for um, their, their ecosystem, so for their airspace, making sure that they're looking at the stakeholders and how the, this technology is going to be used within their country so that it's safe, um, and that it's, it's effective and it's efficient. So UAS regulations are not a one size fits all. It's not a one size fits all approach that you can take. You can have foundational principles just like you would in manned aviation, um, but when it comes to different countries and different airspace, you have terrain, you have weather, you have different, different things to account for. So we knew, we know the rules but need to make sure we're current and we're, we're really looking at um, a country specific, uh, way of going about, uh, developing regulation and policy. So I usually talk to the CIAs and the Civil Aviation Authority personnel and you know, we just have really good discussions and talk about what is ICAO recommending, what's the world recommending and how does this fit within, uh, within that specific country.

Speaker B: Wow. Now it, with, now there's developing nations, uh, there's ones maybe more established. There's, there's all this different stuff and you're really, you're taking a uni approach to all of them. Is there, is there really a different approach you'd need if there's zero regulations so far and like just barely any and you're stepping in compared to ones that are already established?

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, um, it's, it's fascinating to see where there are some countries that really are starting from zero. They're starting from, you know, the ground up. So they actually I think are privileged. Yeah, they're in a privileged position because they get to look at everything that's been done and they're like, well, we know that didn't work, so let's, let's set that one aside for now. But we know that this regulation works. So let's, let's take a look at how we can make these regulations and policies work for us. And so I've worked on different frameworks and I've uh, developed different frameworks with organizations that I've worked with and um, specifically for this type of work for regulation and policy development. And that usually stems from a data driven approach, um, that is collecting information from stakeholders on the ground, understanding the needs, understanding what is important to the people on the ground, and then knowing what's important to the governments. You're going to. Again, the, the few, um, you know, I just named a few of the trends that's going to also be incorporated into these regulations and I. You have to think five years ahead. You have to really kind of think about the regulations. What, what is this going to look like in five years? Because in many countries the regulations are, you know, written maybe pass through within a year or two and then don't get, don't get updated for another few years. So you really have to think about the whole um, timeline of the regulation development in the Global South. But this is also on a global scale. You have to think about it globally. Um, I think in the U.S. you know, we kind of move, move m. Move and then we can change things. We have, we have, you know, how much money and how many people dedicated to these specific, um, to this specific development of UAS regulation. But that doesn't necessarily work everywhere. So we have to really think ahead and we have to look at this from a foundational perspective but then also think about it for five years to come. Um, so it's really, uh, you know, there's a lot that goes into it and um, I think a lot of really good work is happening right now.

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Speaker A: Yeah, uh, exactly, exactly. And that's not something that's usually intrinsic to people because we just think about the now, you know, okay, well, we need, we need to be able to fly beyond visual line of sight right now. So let's just, you know, let's just do that and, you know, figure out what happens next. But it's. Well, what, what does that look like when you have, you know, thousands of aircraft in the sky? What does that look like in, in the future? So, um, it's really, really a, uh, an incredible innovative industry that sometimes is mold boggling.

Speaker B: Putting myself in your shoes, I mean, it's just. It sounds really exciting too, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, um, it is. Because, you know, I. People ask me quite often, they're like, well, why did you switch from manned aviation to unmanned aviation? And it was my specialization in university, actually. I knew I was going to be pilot. I knew I wanted to help people. I knew that I wanted to go into these remote areas. But then I also, when the opportunity arose for me to do, um, UAS work and to specialize in uas, I was like, you know, I think that's actually the future. I think we can do a lot with that. And you as, I mean, you know, the years have gone by and the development, especially within the commercial sectors and the humanitarian and conservation sectors, we are able to do so much right now. And this is in such a short amount of time, really. The industry is moving at such a quick pace. If you look at manned aviation, it took a hundred years to get to where we are now. So in 10 years time, we're like, you know, really since 2000 or maybe 13 years or so since 2012 when it really started becoming more commercialized. Um, uh, drones became commercialized. We really started to get into this, like, you know, well, we need regulations right now and we need to be able to fly a million aircraft right now. But, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, we're trying to keep up with the regulations and the development and the manufacturing. So. So it's, it's definitely. It's, it's not an easy. It's not an easy realm, but it is exciting.

Speaker B: So great way to put it in perspective from a hundred years and then this la, this, this short, like almost 10 years and like how we're, how fast we're moving right now and where we're going to go. It, it is very exciting. Now, in your experience, what was, uh, some of the biggest challenges that you faced when working with regulators in Africa and other parts of the world?

Speaker A: Oh, some of the biggest challenges, um, I think similarly to what I was just saying about how exciting it is and how, how everything's moving so quickly. Um, that is a challenge. Being able to stay, stay current, stay up to date, know what's about to come out and know how regulation, where regulations are or maybe where they aren't. Um, you know, I have countries that already have established regulations, but maybe they're not as up to date to then, uh, to then really look at that technology that's correlating and in parallel with those regulations. So then what kind of waivers would and authorizations do you need to be able to fly different types of aircraft? And I think as you know, we're in this field where new aircraft are being developed and new software and new. I mean, it's just at. Again, I, I, uh, don't even think there's a word for it because it is so fast and people are doing

Speaker B: it, you know, so fast. You got to constantly be hungry, always learning. Not, not just like there's no book that tells you what, what everything is. It's something you gotta be hungry and have a desire to, to learn weekly, sometimes daily, almost. It's crazy.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that's, I think that's uh, that's one of the biggest challenges right now because, um, you can feel, especially in regulation development, ah, you can feel like you're quite behind. Even though we're trying to think five years ahead, you can still, you know, it takes a long time to get things through parliament or through you voted in or you know, reviewed and by the time things are reviewed and passed, then we might already be too late. And so, so that's why it's really important to be able to think through, um, what kind of challenges you're going to, uh, you're going to, that are going to be thrown at you, I would say. What are those challenges to always be thinking about, um, uh, yeah, the next steps in the aviation realm.

Speaker B: Now is there like ah, an approach or a way that you've navigated these challenges to ensure that drone operations comply with like local laws than just Africa as a whole?

Speaker A: Yeah. So you know, we, we definitely, in the countries that I've worked in, um, again with, with other organizations, um, you know, we've been able to really speak with uh, the UAS RPAS teams. So we are in communication with them. Um, we've done different uh, frameworks and basically I'm going to call it a study. Even though we actually look uh, at it as a data driven approach to collecting information to know where they are, what their current state is and what their future state will be. So to be able to keep up and to be able to understand um, how to mitigate those challenges and how to, how to face those challenges and make a difference while those challenges are being thrown at us, we are just in constant communication, constant discussion. The, one of the things that is the worst that can happen really is when everything just stops because everybody's like, it's too much, we need to pause. And that's when uh, when all of a sudden, you know, the industry's not pausing so people can't pause. We have to keep going. It's like, you know, we have to be software ourselves, we have to keep updating. And so I'm, I'm always like, no, can't stop. We have to keep going. Everyone kind of wants to stop and take like a five minute break. And I'm like, there. We don't have five minutes. So we have to, we have to

Speaker B: keep looking, keep climbing that mountain. We don't have a chance to, to do a lookout at the Vista. We got to keep going.

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So, so, um, you know, we're constantly trying to mitigate those challenges that are being thrown at us, um, while keeping uh, the momentum going and not, you know, really, I definitely advise everyone, don't stop. You know, don't, don't. It's not the time to be like, you know what, we're going to see what the US does and we'll just wait and watch them, um, you know, or we're going to see what Yasser is doing or the UK and then, and then we'll, we'll continue. Um, so I hear that people, they, that's, that's a very, um, uh, hard thing to see. Especially when there are small teams that are creating these regulations in the Global South. And you're like, well, you know, they're working with small, um, a small amount of personnel and usually a small budget. And so that means that they're trying to, you know, regulate for a whole country in a way that is, is, it's, it can be difficult and it can be pretty hard. But yeah, they're doing a great job. Everyone I know is doing. They're, they're working so hard.

Speaker B: So that's great. And, and it's like, I, I know, I know looking at, uh, looking at America, looking at the UK and understanding their regulations and so on. But, but with how innovative and, and movement that you guys have on, on everything you're working on right now, there's probably a chance we're going to be looking to you on what regulations or concepts and so on and all these little micro climates and different scenarios that have been done. So yeah, I love to see this whole global network of community, of sharing, uh, ideas and concepts and it's coming. That's awesome.

Speaker A: And collaboration is really key in that. And so I love to see these working groups in different regions of Africa, they're working together, sharing, um, you know, they have a strong desire to, to keep uh, the innovation alive. And so, um, you know, we're excited to also see where um, the Global north heads and what they do. So we're trying to, we're trying to also keep it, keep it, um, keep everyone connected. You know, it's, it's a very small world, um, and yet it's going to be running the whole show pretty soon. So.

Speaker B: Well said. Now, have evolving drone regulations affected humanitarian emissions, especially in countries with less developed regulatory frameworks?

Speaker A: Yes, you know, especially in the, in the realm of, I would say emergency response, um, you know, again, coming from a manned, uh, medical, humanitarian, medical aviation background where I would fly and do emergency flights. And this is one of the reasons why I, uh, know UAS are so imperative to the industry and to helping people, is because they can be used in such a quick and efficient manner. They can get to people, they can bring the medicine, they can take the antivenom to people in need, um, you know, when they're bitten by a snake. And so this is, this is something that, that, this, this industry is, is really created for. It's a beautiful, beautiful industry in the way that we can help people, we can make such a difference. It's really looking at that drones for good, uh, concept and something that um, is, you know, I'm very passionate about. And so I feel like where we are right now, um, we want to see how that can be led in a way that's efficient. And because of the regulations and the pause and regulations sometimes, or the lack of regulations, you're not able to get those waivers or the authorizations or that quick turnaround that UAVs are capable of doing. So, you know, you can turn, uh, you can put an aircraft on. I think one of the quickest launches I did on a Class 2 aircraft was around 12 to 15 minutes going. And that's with your risk assessment, your, your checklist. You're, you know, you have a task to do, you have a mission to do. It's an emergency, you can get it out there and you can, you can do it safely effectively and, and efficiently. And so, um, you know, I, I mean, it would take me maybe 45 minutes to, to an hour to get an aircraft ready and to get my flight plans in and to get ready to go and take medical supplies out into the bush where, you know, you can save that time. Um, but, but again, you can't always get the waivers or the authorizations in enough time. I think right now most CAAs that I know and regulations that I know, it takes for emergency transport usually about three days to get a waiver, unless you have a good relationship with that, with your specific caa or have a running authorization to be able to do an emergency response in, uh, an aircraft.

Speaker B: Nice. Well said. And Andy, and that quick turnaround comparative from undemand systems to manned systems, it's a very stark difference to see and it's really interesting. I kind of actually want to watch that in case, as a use case and show it, uh, I mean, in public safety world and kind of where drone sense is in a lot of this, uh, and so on getting a helicopter out compared to just having that drone right in a squad car. Massive difference. Massive difference. And I love that you celebrate that as well. Now with what you were saying here. Are there maybe some examples where regulations have either helped or hindered the use of drones for good?

Speaker A: You know, there are a lot of use cases and there are a lot of examples of being able to go into these areas. Most of the ones that I know of are they've, they've been, um, given waivers and authorizations to be able to go in and that in, in that case, like when you have a waiver or, or running authorization to be able to do a specific, um, let's say disaster, um, mitigation effort or bringing in food, uh, or medical supplies into areas. I know of, of a couple of different instances. And of course we all know of some, some of the big players here in Africa. Um, but you know, I think one, uh, one proof of concept or one pilot project would be the World Food Program in Madagascar and what they're working to do with bringing food and they're trying to bring larger cargo. Um, in Mozambique there are also uh, drones that have been able to take food, um, supplies during uh, some of the, the cyclones that have happened down in those areas. Um, and so I think though the biggest plus is that a lot of governments are ready to give those authorizations, especially when there is no other option. But they're still kind of leaning towards helicopters or they're leaning towards manned aviation. Um, I'm trying to think of like a really good, um, a really good like kind of story and I'm kind of drawing a bit of a blank on a story that could be shared. I have a couple, but they're not my stories to share. Um, so I don't want to, I don't want to overstep. Um, but in my experience when it comes to, I would say working with regulatory bodies and being able to get out there and to be able to, in my background I did reconnaissance, surgery, reconnaissance and surveillance. And so to be able to go out and to be able to say this is where I need to go and this is where I need to go to keep people safe, um, everyone was always very uh, supportive of that and I had very little regulation. Um, right. I didn't have any regulations holding me back.

Speaker B: No, that's great. Now uh, I want to dive into maybe some training and development for drone operations in these like high stake environments that we're speaking of. Now, given your experience in both crewed aviation and drone operations, what are the key differences in training drone operators for high stake environments like humanitarian missions or emergency response?

Speaker A: So I mean training, training operators and pilots, uh, on the unmanned side and flying drones is, it's quite different than the training that you get as a, as a, as let's say a humanitarian bush pilot. So I find, yeah, you know, I, I, my training as a bush pilot and you know what I had to go through, um, schooling wise and actually getting here and then you go through your training on the ground, um, it takes months to do an out, so many hours to build. Um, however, as a, as a humanitarian drone pilot or as someone working in a high stake environment as a drone operator and maintainer and pilot, you are looking at a, uh, series of knowing how to maintain the aircraft. You're still doing your pre flight checks, you're still making sure that you're following safety protocols, you're doing your risk assessments, you're making sure you're following the regulations and policies and the operators and the maintainers of these aircraft, they're the ones that are, that are still pic, they are still pilot in command of the aircraft. So in these, in these um, high risk areas, the type of training that I would say, um, goes into it, it can be a lot faster than flying a manned aircraft. But the intensity and the responsibility is just as big. It is still an aircraft. And I think that's something that we all need to remember is that no matter what the size of uh, a uas, it is an aircraft. And so you need to, you need to fly it as, as a pilot, as the pilot in command. And so um, when I'm teaching or instructing, um, that's how I really tell people and tell the students and, and the people learning how to fly. I'm like, this is, this is serious. This is something especially a larger aircraft, let's say class two or three aircrafts that are, that, that can do a lot of damage and you know, are carrying, um, you know, same, same cost as, as a, as a manned aircraft but without anyone on board. And that's where you get into that human factor side of things. So, so we really go through um, I would say like a basic ground training, um, as if you were going to be a private pilot and then go into the communications, how you're aviating, how you're navigating and how you're communicating while flying. And so that's, as an instructor how I want um, my students to always understand that this is, this is serious. It's not just a toy, it's not just a video game.

Speaker B: And that's a wrap for today's episode of dronecast. Rethinking Public Safety One Drone at a Time. I hope you found today's conversation insightful and thought provoking. As always, we want to hear from you. What do you think of today's topics? Do you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes? Don't forget, you can reach out to us on LinkedIn @D dronecast rethinking public safety one drone drone a Time. Or head over to dronesense.com dronecast to share your thoughts and get more content from the show. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, rating and sharing it with others who are passionate about the future of drones and public safety. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time.