Hive With Us Podcast | Episode #57

Speaker A: Hey guys, welcome to another episode. Today I'm bringing you another guest interview. I was on the Hive Mind podcast with Daniel Martinez and we got deep into why we are doing all of this content creation. What is the real reason behind it in terms of gaining more impact, more freedom for our family, and also making more money. We also really talked about creating community and Web 3.0 was a super interesting conversation. Looking forward to it. Let's get into it.

Speaker B: Hey, welcome to say this episode. We are here with Stephen Pope.

Speaker A: Stephen.

Speaker B: Uh, G. Pope. I did this too, so I get it. I get Stephen G. Pope. Um, we're going to talk about some business, uh, automation. Some, uh, not in the business automation, but social media automation. And we're talking about business too, because you bought and sold the business, so we're kind of talking about that too.

Speaker A: Yeah, that'd be great.

Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, tell us a little bit about, um, how you got into entrepreneurship. Like, some people fall into it, some people started at birth. Um, it's different for everybody.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think for me it was really at, at birth. So like, uh, I was always, I was always trying to design products and sell them to people. And of course it's always, it's always your family first. Right. So, uh, and like you're, I think the first couple sales you get is always like a sympathy kind of, kind of purchase. Right. So I, I created a paper computer and my uncle bought it for 10 bucks and.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Yeah. So. So like, like I said, it's sympathy. Right. Like, who would need a, A paper computer? But, um, they were, they were just helping me out. Yeah. So, you know, just like, I was always just interested in building things and solving little problems. And then I was, I just like made the assumption is like, well, if I solve this cool problem, then you must want this as well. Uh, when you get into the real business world, that doesn't always work out that way.

Speaker B: It's a good thought though.

Speaker A: Yeah. But it's a good early thought to have that just everyone wants all your solutions. Uh, yeah, especially in the tech world. Right. Because like, I'm in the tech. I helped a lot of startups too. And like everybody has their brilliant idea and like most of them go, uh, go nowhere. But, um, but yeah, I mean, I think just, I was always just interested in, in selling stuff, coming up with products. And then it just so happened like after I, I got my degree in computer science and went out into the job market after that. Uh, it was the first, uh, dot com bubble and I, I don't think I was trying very hard, but I couldn't get a job. And uh, it just so happened that like a few, a few people started reaching out to me, like, oh, you know, computers. And I, I, I've been doing computers since I was a little kid. So like for me like there's all these separations of skills now like DevOps and programming and hardware. And so like to me it was all like, I just knew how to do all that stuff and so I knew how to kind of piecemeal lots of things together. Hardware, software and um. And so like when I, when I would go work with startups, that worked out really well because like no startup, well, I can't say no startup, but a lot of the times you're kind of putting things together. And so then I uh, I ended up doing consulting and then I was just doing good work for people and then ultimately built that company up, um, you know, to a couple million dollars a year. I was Income magazine's fastest growing companies and then, and then I sold that. So my entrepreneurial journey's really just, you know, been from the beginning. I've only had a W2 job, like probably two or three years of my life.

Speaker B: Now. One of the big things about entrepreneurship is just finding, finding that whatever that problem is and it might, it might be a good idea to you, but the marketplace will tell you really quick if it's a good idea or not.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, and that, that is kind of the cool thing too. But it's, it's hard for people to um, to take that leap. It's like you can get the marketplace to tell you things before you even build it. Um, um, but it takes some restraint to do that right? Like, cause it like for most entrepreneurs you get excited. It's like the only thing you want to go do as soon as you have that idea is to go build it. And the thought of going out and just like just asking people if they want it, I think that all sorts of things get in your way. Like you're afraid they'll say no, like maybe deep down, like they don't really want it or uh, you have to go talk to people. So if you're introverted and you're uh, especially in the tech space, you gotta go talk. And that could be nerve wracking as well. So there's all these different things that kind of keep you uh. Cause the interesting thing, there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there. I think this is more of the rare type of. But they just go, they don't like come up with any problems. They don't solve anything. They just go and ask people and then the people tell them and then they go build it and they, they take the, the fast route. But I think um, I think those types of people are a little more on the rare side.

Speaker B: Um, it's, it's definitely and I like what you said, like when you're growing company you don't have, you don't have all the answers or the people. So you kind of have to depend on how people. Resources outside of your scope. Just because you don't have, you don't have all the answers. And that's okay.

Speaker A: Yeah. Plus that's what's fun for me with technology. I always loved looking into one industry, seeing what they were doing and then looking into another industry and like those, the things that I take are like commonplace in that industry. But like you bring, you uh, can bring some things to another industry where it's like nobody even knows it. And then if you take two existing ideas and put those together, it's like you can make this hodgepodge. So there's, there's like when you're coming up with ideas, like there's a few different ways. It's like you could have a purely original idea which I think is more on the rare side. Or, or you're borrowing things from other industries or you're combining different things or you're just doing like a hodgepodge of all the above.

Speaker B: I, I've noticed that and it's, it's crazy. I've noticed, I've noticed that recently is that like there could be one in like you said, one industry like totally everything built out and then you go to one another industry like they're totally missing that one key piece that can accelerate and make things better and it's just not there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: If you sit in the, in pitch it to that niche. Uh, uh, fly.

Speaker A: Yeah. Especially like content. Right. So like startups, they're understanding this kind of thing. Like they're like startups understand content. Need to get my word out there. Organic content. Um, whereas like in the, like in the professional services realm, consultants, I mean not to say that none of them know about that, but a lot of them are just stuck in the old school like traditional networking groups and not to. I always, I always want to make sure I'm m not like bagging on traditional networking groups. A lot of people have made a lot of money and built successful businesses, but I don't think it's necessarily the future of like just a few people in a city getting together and just getting their two minutes to give their pitch every, every other week. Um, there's a lot of ways to scale your business and content is one of them. But like, most, most professionals out there just don't. It's like totally foreign. Even though, like, the startups are just like, this is the best way to grow.

Speaker B: Um, it's like the phone book. Everybody's like, I want to get in the phone book. Let's sit in the phone book. Pay ads for the phone book. No one has phone books anymore.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's. We laugh, but it's like a lot of businesses, it's still the same thing. It's like they, they just don't. They don't. I mean, they're experts in what they do. Right. So they don't have some of these, these common things. And like, when you start to get on video, I don't know how you were, but like, I was terrified to get on video.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, uh, so like in your, in like marketing, like marketing strategy, like, it's actually not complicated. It's like one of the most, like if you just go to the Google and type marketing, go to market strategy and just read it for like 10 minutes, you'll like, you'll be like, whoa, that was so simple. Like, obviously, who, what, uh, why, where and how. It's like, it makes so much sense, but like, if you don't look at it, then marketing could be really like foreign to you. And then, then you're just like always trying to piecemeal things together and like, you don't know why things work or why they don't. And so like, you can just never figure it out.

Speaker B: So what's something. And I think, I think, uh. How long, how long did you operate your own business before you sold it?

Speaker A: Uh, I think it. I think I was, um, 12 years or so.

Speaker B: Wow, 12 years.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, well, this is a question I like asking for people that do it for. How do you prevent burnout? Prevent burnout? 12 years.

Speaker A: Yeah. So I think partly. Oh, well, yeah, that's interesting. Like, I think for me, like, I've. I've always had a certain resiliency. So, like, um, I definitely would say I was burnt out at times, but I would just kind of like, check out. Like, I've always been able to recover from that kind of thing because I just, um. But I do think it's like you want to reduce the number of things you're doing. You want to have focus you want to be focused on making an impact with people because it's really easy to get yourself into a thing where you're just doing stuff and you're, you've lost touch with the fact that you're supposed to be making an impact in people's lives. And like, impact usually comes from going deep on something, not from doing a lot of stuff. And um, so I think kind of keeping a measure on, on some of those things and because, um, you know, you only have so much time and you have, have fun with the process, you know, have fun with it. Try to, you know, um, and give yourself some time off and spend some time with your kids, if you've got kids. And um. Yeah. So, you know, it's like that's, that's probably the best advice I could give you is like, enjoy the process, I guess.

Speaker B: Um, is it. Was there a point that the, the reason why you sold your part, your business was like. It was like, hey, is it bigger, bigger things? Was the money? Was it the freedom of not having to do that thing anymore, that one thing that took all your time? What was the, what was the biggest reason why you sold your business?

Speaker A: I think ultimately I got, I fell out of love for helping other people build technology.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Because it's really hard and it was getting really competitive and I didn't really want to niche down into something. So I think if you're going to build a, like, uh, a software agency right now, like, probably your best bet is it's like, I think there's only two directions. You go, you go, you're the cheapest on the market and then people will pay you because lots of people need technology. So if you're cheap and you do semi good work, people will pay you for it. Or you go kind of niche. Right? And I grew up doing all sorts of stuff, so I didn't want to be niche. And uh, I just got tired of. And I'm sure I like, I'm sure if I had the wherewithal at the time, I could have solved this, like, if I knew some of the things I know now about marketing and like niching down and. But I didn't quite grasp all that at the, like I do now. Um, but just got tired of like people not appreciating what I was doing. Like, it was, it was, it was a funny thing in technology. It was always like the hardest thing everyone thought was the easiest thing. And the things that were the easiest, they were like, whoa, that's incredible. And it's just like with technology, it's like, it usually, especially when you're, like, doing consulting, a lot of the times it just didn't go exactly the way I wanted, you know? Um, I mean, we did a lot of. I, I'm, I, I'm kind of like making it sound real negative. We did a lot of great work for a lot of people. Um, but I just got tired of some of that. That friction of like, oh, we're over budget. Well, it's like, yeah, you're over budget. This technology, man, it's like it's always going to go over budget. It never comes out the way you want it. And, you know, and like, that people would spend all this money on these, these startups. Uh, and like, we were talking earlier about, like, product market fit. They didn't really have product market fit. They're building all this technology and it would go nowhere. And, you know, I just got. I guess I just got tired of

Speaker B: that spinning the wheels. You wanted a greater purpose.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's a funny way you put that because, yeah, it's like I wanted to tap into a purpose. I probably like knowing some of the things I know now, I could have probably applied some of that. Um, but, yeah, I wanted a purpose. I want to, like, make an impact on people's lives. I have a pretty specific purpose in life now, which is really to like. Because this is at the core of what I'm good at. I've always been really good at, like, seeing the potential in people, and if they're interested in hearing my perspective on that, then, um, I'm good at helping them get the tools and the resources to help them reach their maximum impact. And so that's kind of like, you know, regardless of what I do now or what I was doing before, it was always with entrepreneurs and business owners, for the most part. And, um. And so, like, I, I'm tapping more into that now. Like, how can I help these people and make an impact and help them make their biggest impact?

Speaker B: I think I want to hit a point, though, that you just said is that you sell to people who want to be sold versus people that don't.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: yeah. Kind of a little tricky there, but that's what you said.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, because, like, I have opinions on, like, if I got to know you better, I'm sure I would come up with all sorts of stuff. Like, Daniel, you could do this. You could do this. You might not care what I have to say. So, um, but so I, I've had to learn that as well. It's like there are people that are really interested in what I have to say about their future and then there are other people that could care less about what Stephen has. Like what Steven's vision for my life is. You know, it's like, it's just because I see something in somebody doesn't mean that's what they want or what they're looking for. You know, so like it's just something that I, I have. But it's not necessarily a plot. It doesn't, it doesn't mean that it fits with everybody.

Speaker B: I think that's uh, that's a wisdom in your, your experience talking because a lot of people struggle with that early on. They think everybody like, and I had, I have had the same issues. That's why I recognize it too, because I'm like, I can help people so I can help people. I can help so many people, but nobody wants to listen to me. And I'm like, well, maybe it's the way I'm saying it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, and then, and then, but also. And that's the interesting thing is like you make that realization now. It's. Now you have to make sure you don't go the other way where you dilute yourself and you start telling yourself that nobody cares about this because there are people that do. You just have to kind of find your tribe. And that's what's cool about the Internet now is that you can find your tribe. Like uh, you have to put in some effort. You have to commit to them before they'll commit to you. But you can go out and find your like minded people, right? Like you, you came across a TikTok and you saw what I was doing and you're like, hey, this, this guy is like somehow we connected and social media allows us to do that. And now here I'm on your podcast, right, And I'm uh, excited to be on it because we're like minded and we have similarities, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's uh, it's being consistent to find your tribe because your tribe isn't everybody and everybody fits your fits in that box for you. So like I'm, I'm not afraid to lose clients or customers. I'm sad thinking like go, because I know could help them, but not everybody's a good fit. They sometimes be able to go.

Speaker A: That's a really interesting point too because like I, when I first started scaling up my business, I realized at a certain point I was like, I'm taking on some clients that really aren't a great fit. And Lo and behold, those clients weren't getting results. So especially when you're like doing consulting, like picking the right clients is like crucial, right? Because if, if, if your business is based off of getting people results and you're taking the wrong people, then you're not going to get them results and nobody's going to talk about you. And um, that's critical. So I actually took a step back and I was like, okay, I'm going to actually allow my. It's hard to do this. Like, I'm going to scale, I'm going to allow myself to scale back down and somewhat start. Just make sure that I bring on the right people because I have to work with purpose driven people. Uh, that's one. Yeah. Because like, because I like, I do live shows, I do live, I get on video, I'm like spreading my, I'm evangelizing my word. Like if you're just like a, if you're just a practitioner of your, of your business and this. There's no judgment here either. But like if you're just in, like if you're just a practitioner and you like to, you're running your business to make money and you've got enough clients, like you're not going to want to do more. Right. And so I realized, like, uh, I looked back at my clients who were getting big successes and it was like, oh, they're purpose driven. Like they have a mission. Like they're. Those people will never give up no matter what. And that's the type of client I need because like with a client like that, all I need to do is make a few adjustments and just, and

Speaker B: they'll, they'll act already.

Speaker A: Yeah, like, I don't, like, they'll just do it and, and then, then they'll like, if they fail. Like, it's like, not like, uh, it's not, it's just like part of the, Everyone knows it's part of the deal. And then. Whereas like, if somebody isn't purpose driven, I could pour my heart, my soul, every resource, every how to information, every little thing and it's just not gonna, it's just. They're not gonna do it.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's uh, that, that's a pretty good insight. That's pretty good insight because not every, but not everybody's gonna hear it. So what are the things that you're looking for besides purpose driven? Cause I think, I think this is a good conversation to have.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think purpose driven is number one. And then, um, number two, like I help people with content uh, so, um, and usually my clients as well are like, they sell advice, so they're a consultant, a coach, a professional firm or an agency. Cause that's what I've really, that's what I've been my whole life. And um, and so, you know, usually I'm looking for that. I do work with a few startups, tech startups, but like, right when we met, I was like, hey, that this is. I can totally help you, but this is a little bit outside of the, the, the realm. Um, and then usually people that want to do some sort of video, you know, like, they, they want to, um, they. And that's part of my journey as well, is like, I used to be afraid of video. I used to be afraid of public speaking. And so that was part of. When I started my next company. I was like, I'm gonna overcome this. I, I wanna go out and like, get out there. Like, I've, I've been holding all this back. Like, so, like somebody that, that uh, wants to do some of those things and I think those, that's the, the core, the core of it and somebody that wants to make an impact. Right? So I guess purpose and impact kind of go hand in hand. But, you know, like, and uh, you know, and a lot of my clients, they're, they're trying to get, um, you know, try to build freedom in their lives. So purpose, freedom, impact, you know, that kind of, that, that kind of thing.

Speaker B: There's a, uh, there's a, there's a greater purpose that you can tap into that finds out their driving force that's usually going to push them down to become successful and use up. And it sounds like you have to determine that even up front before you even bring them on this planet. Because if they're not purpose driven, impactful and willing to succeed, they're not going to where they put money or a lot of money or a little bit of money. They're just not going to do it because there's no, there's no inner, inner fire.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, and I think that. And like, when I look back at my. One of my, um, one client that is just very successful, you know, she has this really clear purpose and like, it's on her podcast and it's just like you read the purpose and you're like, dang, that's like, it just like, even, even though I, like, even though it's not, um, like I'm not really in her sphere when I look, when I, I'm like, dang, that's a crazy purpose. Like, and it had this. It has this big vision, right? It's like, it's probably like, it's even. Probably something that she might not be able to like, solve all on her own in her lifetime. Right? So it's big. It's even bigger than your own life. But you see how you're going to fit in in your journey. You're. And maybe, maybe in a few generations this will come true. But that's what, like, that's what I think a good purpose is. Right? It's like the purpose is even bigger than you in your lifetime.

Speaker B: How. How did you come across your purpose? Because I know it took you. I mean, you've been on trip for so long. Was it something that you saw, that you saw the thing that needed to be fixed and resolved? That's what you kind of dove into? Or was it like. I mean, most of the time it's just wisdom. Wisdom and time, right? Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, I think I've always had it like, um, on my fingertips. I did. I did end up hiring my own coach and he was really big into the purpose thing and he, uh, did help me kind of formalize it. So, um, I had a little bit of help on that. It was, it was right there. Like, it. It didn't take me a long time to kind of, um. Yeah, but, but like, I had somebody kind of just help me kind of put it together and like. And. And also sometimes I think, you know, just a good coach will like, force you to do it. Like, make you like, like, like this is important, man. Like, I'm not gonna let you do anything else until you kind of like, formulize this. And so. And I, I think it was helpful. Like, I. Cause here's the other thing is like, when I wake up every day, I. I, uh, look at that. And regardless of how that day goes, right? So it's like. Or if I don't want to do something, I can look at that and say, oh, I'm supposed to be contributing to this. And it does make some of these. These other things that you're doing a little more palatable because you're serving something bigger. Because there are certain things, I'm sure you wake up every day, there's certain things you don't want to do, you know, every. Yeah, like there are certain things that I do, uh, that I don't like to do. And like, you have to kind of figure out something that's going to get you past that. Because if it. If you get real micro on some of these Tasks you might just quit.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, one thing, I didn't realize about this till a couple years ago, but how important is it to have a coach or mentor in business? Because in the.

Speaker A: In the.

Speaker B: In like, the regular world, everybody's like, I can't even. I can't.

Speaker A: How.

Speaker B: How can I afford a coach or mentor?

Speaker A: Yeah, is there.

Speaker B: There thing. But what. In the business world, it's like every. I talked to. I talked to a, uh, mentor of mine, and he has a health coach, he has a business coach. He has all these different people that help him become the best version of themselves in his personal relationships, health. All these different people that influence him.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And he pays them all. So, like, how important?

Speaker A: Some of them are expensive.

Speaker B: Some are expensive. Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's important, you know, and I look at coaches and mentors a little bit differently sometimes, and I don't know if there's a real line on here, but, like, I see mentors as a little bit more of, like, a friend, and maybe you're not necessarily paying them. Um, and, like, the conversations are a little less guided. I think a good coach whittles everything down to, like, the next most important thing you should be working on. Like. Cause that. That's what I think a good coach can do is like, there's all these millions of things, but, like, what's the single most important thing that you have to solve right now? And then how do you solve it? Um, but I think it's imperative, especially if I'm a coach. Like, why would you hire me as a coach if I didn't have a coach? Like, it seems it would be. It would be kind of incongruent. Right? Like, hire me, man. Like, and then you're like, do you have a coach? No. Why. Why would I have a. Yeah, so I think it's important, like, the coaches. I think there are lots of bad coaches, you know, so you got to find the one that. That fits with you. But I think it's important because it's, you know, um, you only got one life and you want to, like, reach. You want to. Well, not everybody, but, like, you wanna. You wanna achieve certain things. And, uh, so why not, um, why not have somebody that can, like, just help you? Help guide you and help you stay focused and. And if you get one, listen to what they say, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Otherwise, like, you know, like, otherwise, what's the point? Do everything they said

Speaker B: if. If the coach is where you want to be. Do what they say.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because they've already on that path now.

Speaker A: Now, in truth, like, there's no coach that's going to be able to promise you something. So something might not go the way you want. Uh, but if you're going to go, if you're going to hire him, do it. Because if you don't do what they say, then you either. And there's a million reasons why you might not. You might. You just might be. Don't want to do it. Or it's just like you have to conquer some fear. But if you don't do it, you're never gonna know. Like, it's always gonna be this, like, thing that's like, were they right or did it's just gonna leave ambiguous, uh, like some. Some sort of ambiguous nature, uh, to the relationship.

Speaker B: I will 100% agree with that because it's the shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Type of like, if I would have done, it would have worked.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I didn't listen to you because I'm stubborn, and I realize I'm stubborn five years later. But when it worked five years ago.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's one of those things.

Speaker B: Like, it's a. I mean, 20J. Uh, the pass is hindsight, of course. Can't really redo the decisions. But you always. The bigger the, the bigger the decision that you didn't make at that time, you always feel the ramifications of the future.

Speaker A: Yeah. And, and a. A good coach, I think most of the time is just giving you something subtle to do. It's the subtle shifts that usually produce the most results. And that's again, why it's good to work with people that are aligned with you. Because, like, you're gonna get better results for your clients when you can just give them subtle pushes and get them what they want. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Cause if you have to, like, reinvent, like, like you have to do some crazy thing to get somebody a result, it's like, it's not gonna work.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's funny. Let's kind of pivot into content, uh, creation and your passion. Now what are. Let's kind of delve into that. So what. What's your purpose and impact that you try to pass through to business entrepreneurs and coaches to make a bigger impact?

Speaker A: Well, it's interesting you say that too, because, like, content really, like. And I, I had to, like, analyze this a bit, but content has always been a part of what I do. So when I grew my previous business, it was all on, like, thought leadership, expert content, talking about innovation. I just did a live on this earlier, like, A long time ago, long time ago, I did this blog about how JavaScript was gonna be like the biggest language out there or one of them. I know it's like people will debate me, but it became that and it was like, that was one of my first blogs that went viral and uh, on hacker news and stuff. Uh, so that's always been something that's been a part of me. And then in this case it just, it just kind of came down to like. So when I sold that previous business, I went to start the next one and I started getting into content and, and video and marketing and social media. And a light bulb went on my head. I was like, man, I could have built the other business so much faster. And it was kind of funny because I was building a different. My second business was going to be different than what I have right now. But I, I uh, wasn't really interested in it. And it was, it was. But I would go to these lunches with all these entrepreneurs and I would be, I would actually get them excited about marketing and growing their business. And they were like starting to ask me if I could help them with that. And then the light bulb went off. I was like, hey, I'm su. I'm super passionate about this. And so all I do now is I make content around. I mean I do make automation content. Cause that's, I'm a tech guy, so it's like, it just, it helps me cut through the noise a lot. But I'm just helping, I'm just creating content to help people build their business ultimately. And uh, marketing and video creation and productivity automation systems. And then like, how do you make an impact in the world? And so that, that goes to serving my purpose of trying to help people, um, helping entrepreneurs like grow their business.

Speaker B: Yeah. So that's sgplabs.com Yep. S. Sgplabs. Uh, one of the biggest things that a lot of people think that it doesn't count for them, but I think it's for every business. I kind of want to talk about this is that most people think they shouldn't be content creation because they're too small. M. So let's kind of address that issue because for me, in my head I'm like, everybody needs to produce content because it's the digital age we're in.

Speaker A: Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Speaker B: Big or small, that's what gets you organic traffic. What's your opinion on that?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean like you have this free traffic basically and you're able to, like we said in somewhat in the beginning, it's like free traffic, free eyeballs at scale, um, helping people, showing your expertise, making an impact. And um, I mean, like, if what. One thing that I see a lot of is like the, the people that are really using social media really well. It's like, it's all of like the people starting brand new businesses, like, like young, like a lot of times younger people. And then it's also like the big brands, the big brands get it. They've been doing this for a long time. Uh, it's, it seems to be there's this portion in the middle and I'm sure it's like smaller business as well. Um, but I just think they're stuck in an old mindset. It's just like networking groups and you know, like, trying to do the pitch once they like get somebody in the chair. And it's like the world has just shifted. And the funny thing is, as well is you talk to most of those people, and most of those people have bought products from social media. They've either hired someone or bought a product from something they found on social media. So like, they're not even making the connection that they're, they're not participating in the thing that they use to make their own buying decisions.

Speaker B: Uh, it's a funny story with that. So my wife bought something online and me as a marketer, I'm like, what was the lead page? Like, send me the lead page. I'm going through that, I'm going through the funnel. Because whatever, whatever sold her, I want to see that. Because now my, my, my, uh, my intuition is going like, I can, I can copy that, I can use that. Because if it works on my, it worked on my wife and it worked on somebody as a consumer, me as a producer and seller. I need to, I need to figure out the angle. So it's a funny, it's a funny insight, you said.

Speaker A: Yeah, and, and on that note too, like, we were also talking about like testing your ideas. Like that's how you can test them. Right? So like if, yeah, like a lot of times people are, uh, when I, when they, when they hire me, they're like, what idea is going to be good? Or like, what's the best offer? And I'm like, like, I, I'll help you get, I'll help you get that formulated as quickly as possible. But like, only the marketplace is gonna tell you that. So like, when you have these ideas, and this is the genius of like TikTok, at least right now, is like, instead of like trying to make the perfect video, you just throw stuff out there and it's like, did people react to it? Did they ask you questions? Did they ask for more? Like, I'm always surprised. Like, the videos that do well there, like, it's not the ones that I thought would do well, but then once I've done a few of them, then I can go back and say, okay, I guess people want more of this. And that's why I keep making those automation videos is because they just seem to pop and they cut through the noise because I think it's like the only. Like that's something that I can do that nobody else can do.

Speaker B: Yeah, I. It's kind of funny too, because if you, if you like, you might only see that one video. But if you go to their count, like 10 videos about the same thing and they just change one sentence, right. It goes over again and then like, you see one stuck a little bit better, one stuck a little bit more, and then one blew up and you're like, okay, they literally did the same video over and over again and just rephrased it. And then one did better than the other and they're running with it.

Speaker A: Yeah. But I think most people would have a hard time, even me sometimes. Like, I'll be like, oh, I just made that video. And it's like, yeah, it doesn't matter. Like, nobody, like, people aren't going to remember it. Number one, the people that liked it will probably like it again. And, uh. And like, it's just like, people are not obsessed with us. Like, nobody, nobody's remembering what I do or what you do.

Speaker B: And like, what I said yesterday, it doesn't matter.

Speaker A: Yeah. And like, but it's hard. It's. I think that. I think this is another thing that's a little bit of a tangent. But I think one of the reasons why mindset and all these, like, fulfillment coaches out there are coming out, like, helping you live a fulfilling life is because life is changing really rapidly. And like, these things like social media and like, there's, there's benefits to them, but there's also like some, some negative parts to them. And like, people don't know how to navigate it. And, um, it's confusing. And so

Speaker B: it's uncharted territory that they've never been through. And if you walk through it blindly, it can hit you hard if it goes the wrong direction.

Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I mean, like, if somebody says something nasty to you, like, it can, it could affect you. Right. It's like, we're not. Like, I Don't know. Yeah. And I think if you have a good purpose, like, you can. That can help you go through that kind of stuff. But, like, those kind of things are kind of. They can mess with you.

Speaker B: Yeah, so that's a great point because there's a lot of trolls out there, people just talking. They'll never be your customer. So in your opinion, do you address it or do you let it go? Because some people like being abrasive to get more likes and followers, and other people just let it go and not even address it. So what's your opinion on that?

Speaker A: So the way I handle it personally is I just had one of these, like, I did an automation video and people didn't understand certain things about it. Yeah, they're like, oh, you made this super complicated when it's so simple. And, uh. And so I made a couple of video responses just, um, providing more value. Like, one guy also said, uh, great job showing people how to automate things and actually giving them nothing tangible that they can use on how to create content. So I got 30 seconds here.

Speaker B: Come on.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, there's that too. But then I just made a video. I said, okay, fine, here's a video on how to create content. And I didn't. And I. I addressed it. Uh, what's kind of cool about it too is, like, I just addressed. I didn't, like, address his comment. Like, I didn't answer him. I wasn't talking to him. I just made a video on how to create content, and his little comment was sitting up there so that people could see it. And then at the end, I just said, hey, here's how you. Here's how you turn a negative comment into something positive. And m. So I try to do that. And then I feel a lot better too.

Speaker B: Like, there's a. I'm gonna jump up on a tangent because my wife talked to me about this recently, um, somebody. And this is some celebrity. Celebrity thing. And I'm like, I'm not really into that, but there was a point, and I thought I'd never bring this up, but it was crazy. Somebody in. A family member, some friend of a celebrity told some gossip around them, and a friend of hers is like, well, if it's already out there, use that gossip and make money off of it. Because they might have made a little bit of money, but you can turn this into a large revenue source. So it's one of those things where you can monetize even the ugly or nasty comment and make it into a, uh, uh, revenue. Revenue Source just by addressing it right there then and there.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. Like, I think, um, there's no right or wrong, I guess. Like, if you want to, you can approach it any way you want, but that's how I do it because it's just my personality. Like, I, I want to be a positive person. I don't want to, like, if I, if I go down rabbit holes with people, like, yeah, like, bad email threads, any of that stuff, I just feel worse. Like, so, like, I'm just going to return it, like with a, a positive response and, uh, try to do good in the world, you know, that's, that's how I look at it.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I think, I think it's a great point. I, I, I think I'm gonna address it more just because people that are nasty and rude in some cases just need to be addressed in general, but they need to be done so in a, like, a patient way. Because that patient way is not the response they're looking for, but it's a response that, it makes sense across the board.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, yeah, yeah, I agree. And then also, plus, like, having a little bit of, like, thick skin too, because there are some people that are leaving legitimate comments.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: That are just kind of like, just very direct. And they're not actually being a troll. They're just saying, like, I think you're, you're full of it. Right. And they're not necessarily being like, I think there's, uh, a delicate balance between just having a different opinion and being very direct about it, as opposed to someone that's like, literally trying to tear you down. Right. And so, like, you also have to see those and not like, go off, go off the rail. So this is why people have mindset coaches. Right. Like, we're having, like, we've never had to deal with some of these, uh, these realities of life.

Speaker B: You never, you never have to like, explain yourself to a hundred of people that you never been or seen or spoken to before.

Speaker A: Yeah, I have a feeling things will change. Like, I think we're in a, I think we're in a transitional period where, like, social media exists in a particular way, where all the major corporations control, uh, these little networks and we're kind of all forced to just like, feast over all this organic traffic that just goes to everybody. But like, I think with the Web 3.0 stuff and like, um, these little communities, I think it's going to, I think I see that as like, the return to like, tribal stuff, but using a digital systems Right. So like agree. Yeah. So we'll get back to the way it used to be, but in a digital way where we can just hang with our tribe and not necessarily have to like, exist in the social media space as it, as it lives right now. And, and I'm quite frankly, I'm looking forward to that because like, I'm doing the social media game partly because it just, this is the, like, you have to deal with certain realities in life. Like this is how people buy right now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I don't necessarily enjoy every piece of it. I do enjoy parts of it. I enjoy creating content and helping people. But there's other pieces I don't. But I think it's a transitional period that will, that will ultimately come to a different conclusion when, when there's distributed networks that people don't own.

Speaker B: I really want to talk about this because this is, that's such a key point and a lot of people are missing this.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Is I recognize the transition as well. And it's going to the creator economy where instead of Twitter, Instagram and everybody else, they're communicating with their tribe and you can directly your tribe. So there's a lot of products coming out where you can build, uh, your own social media app to control your own tribe and you can connect with your own people directly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we're, we're definitely very early on with that. But if you want to monetize and build and capitalize on, uh, this transition, you got to start producing content now to actually build your tribe now. Because once the tribes are built, that's all. I mean, I mean it's going to be harder to build and find and coordinate your own tribe because they're already giving you secondary tribe. Right now is the transition point where you can kind of catch people while they're transitioning in that stage and a lot of people are missing that.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. And this is like the world's moving a lot faster than most people can really grasp. So I don't really like from a technical standpoint, I actually kind of why from a technical standpoint, I do understand how blockchain works, but I think where a lot of people go wrong is they see all the NFT stuff and the, and like the bitcoin stuff. And that's a distraction from ultimately what this is, which is just a distributed system that allows for trust and no ownership. And if you understand the fundamentals, like that's huge because humanity exists on trust. Like that's, that's what it's all about, like, whether you buy a $20 product or, like, you need less trust in order for someone to buy a $20 product, you need more trust in order for someone to buy a $10,000 product. But it's still, there's a trust involved. And, um, that's what these networks provide. And, like, people just. They think of the NFTs and the bitcoins and stuff as, like, something silly. So they're now, they're forgetting or not paying attention to all the other stuff. So I don't, like, I'm not.

Speaker B: I don't.

Speaker A: I'm not like, in the metaverse or anything like that. I'm not sure I want to be exactly in the metaverse, but, uh, I understand the core of what's happening. And so even though I don't, I'm not, like, participating in this exactly. I know what's happening. And, like, therefore, like, my radar is out and I will be. I will be navigating this as it comes out.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's right there. Uh, that's. That's the key. Anybody that's in business or wants to be in business, it's not about making trends, it's about catching a trend.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that's why I worry about some of these people that are just still doing the networking group. But it's like. And again, not passing judgment on it because still a, uh, networking group is a great place to meet people in person and all that kind of stuff. But, like, there's a whole world happening here that's, like, just vastly different and not that hard to understand. But, like, I. Gary Vee talks about this a lot. Like, he made a bunch of money off of the NFTs and stuff. And his basic pitch was like, hey, I just took out like 50 hours worth of my time and just, like, figured out what this was. And I, uh, mean, he has all sorts of help from people to help him with this stuff, but mentors and capital and. But he just took. But he. But his main point, the thing that I took away is, like, he took some time out of his life and read about what these things were and capitalized. Yeah. Well, yeah, but also to understand. Right.

Speaker B: The future.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so, like, he, like, instead of just getting caught up and saying, oh, bitcoin's a scam, NFTs are a scam. Like, why would I buy a digital jpeg? It was like, more understanding of, like, oh, I need to understand what's happening underneath here.

Speaker B: Now. There's. There's a. There's a lot out there that's happening. And I think just keeping your eyes open and not even, I mean, I don't, I'm not, I'm like you. I'm not participating because I feel it's too early. Like things will get easier as it progresses. But if you build up that. And I think this is such amazing that I think we're on the same page as community. Everything drives the community and everything's gonna go back to a tribal fashion. So if you have products or services that, if you build trust for the community, you have essentially clients for life. And I've seen it online already with some, uh, of my clients. They're really big on Twitter and they have that community on Twitter that is so loyal to them that every time they release a new product or service, there's somebody there to buy. Even if they don't even consume it, they're there to buy it because there's that trust factor there.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And like, I guess a SaaS company is going to be a little bit different. Like, you need, you need hundreds of thousands of customers, but like, if you're a consultant or a service provider, you only need like a hundred or fifty. You know, like, how many people do you really need to run a big successful business? Like, I'm in a mastermind group and like the guy that, you know, he makes seven, uh, or $8 million a year and he's basically got, you know, a hundred customers. I mean, that's, that's pretty cool. Yeah. That those are numbers that most people can look at and say, oh, I could get a hundred. I mean that's, it's not easy to getting a hundred customers paying a big chunk of change premium.

Speaker B: But you have to target, know your audience and who your target audience is. So make sure that when you are talking, are talking to your target audience.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then just realizing that like, I think a lot of us are selfish in a lot of ways. Like, like out of all of the followers I have on TikTok or whatever, I don't need them all. I just need a few trusted people. And uh, I don't, you know, and like, you know, so it's, it's just like, I think perspective plays a role, you know, in some of this stuff. Like, because you can get kind of caught up in like feeling like you need more and more and more and more.

Speaker B: 100%. 100%, man. Ah. This, that we covered a lot in this conversation. Yeah, it's definitely, uh, definitely not what, what's normally covered in these types of Type of these calls. I'm sure you had this a different conversation that you normally have.

Speaker A: It is, yeah, it, it is.

Speaker B: But um, definitely check them out. Tik Tok, YouTube, Stephen G. Pope. Um, what is a quote that is yours or somebody else's that you resonate with?

Speaker A: Oh man. A quote. Oh geez. This is like where, See, I'm dyslexic, so I, I, I, I'm, I'm bad with this kind of thing. Um, I'm trying to remember like a, like I'm trying to be smart and remember this Peter F. Drucker quote, but it's like, um, hot there. But I can't.

Speaker B: That's, that's why I like ask this comfort, this question. Because sometimes it's like, I did it, I did one yesterday and they're like, oh, I put this on every email. It's my body, my email. And it's like, that's something that, it's like bullied to my core. And some people, it's just like, oh, I have a ton of them and I can't think of them all. And then there's other people, like, I got 10 of them. Which one you want?

Speaker A: And I'm kind of like the ones like I'm not sure I have one. So I mean, it's a, I mean

Speaker B: we can make one up for you. I think something is being impactful and making a difference.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. Uh, yeah. Freedom, freedom, impact and purpose, maybe.

Speaker B: Freedom, impact and purpose. So now you gotta make that the body of your email. Cause now you know that's true. Somebody asked, somebody asked you what it was and now you know what it is.

Speaker A: You know, it's funny too. And I, I kind of came back to that same realization just a few days ago. I was like, I was running around the track because you can lose touch with those things, especially if you're in tech and you're doing automation and stuff like that. You can really lose sight of. Like, especially. And I tell people this in my automation group too. I'm like, make sure you don't start all this tech stuff before you like, are just creating content. And like you have a, like you have a workflow. So it's like, yeah, it's like freedom, impact and purpose.

Speaker B: We'll get to it eventually. We'll make it happen. We'll find it on the call. Yeah, no, it's amazing. Um, is there a book that you can recommend to our audience that's changed your life?

Speaker A: Um, um. Mm. Mhm. Well, again, I'm dyslexic so I don't read as much. But there was a um, Peter F. Drucker book that I did read that was really, I thought was really awesome. It was about um, about management and that was a really great business book. And it's, it's written by just like an old school guy. So it just has like fundamentals in there. And then there was actually another marketing book that I think really kind of opened my eyes. It was uh, Building a Story Brand, uh, by Donald Miller. And uh, so I, I've, I've consumed all sorts of content like from video and stuff like that. It's a little bit more like on the personal side and the personal development side. And um, but like in terms of like business and books that I've read, those are the two ones that like really stand out because they, they were very tangible and like actionable. So a lot, a lot of marketing books, they're kind of like, they're interesting. Like they're like. But like you can't really apply em all the time. And story Building a Story Brand by Don Miller was like, oh, I can just, it's like, I can almost just like take this template and just like do something that evening and write something out that would actually be impactful for a business. So that's what I would call out.

Speaker B: So I think I have a new question I'm going to ask based on our dyslexic people because now I've never had someone, usually people are really quick to answer those questions. So who's somebody that you recommend I should follow on social media?

Speaker A: Uh, for you actually one guy like um, because you run a software company, uh, SaaS company, there's uh, a guy named uh, Chris Walker.

Speaker B: Chris Walker.

Speaker A: And um, he helps like tech startups grow fast. And uh, he's on LinkedIn. And he's one of those people that like I came across and you know how like a lot of times people like on social media they're, they're, it's like teaser information. Yeah, it just like it just gives you enough to, to feel like you're not qualified and then you hire them. Like he gives a lot of his stuff away and um, he's one of those people that really understands marketing really well and has um, a real, a real focus and he's been like a real inspiration uh, for me and he's given me a lot of like a lot of the things I say, they're like almost verbatim. Like I've gone through them but like sometimes I just can't say it better than he does, so I just say it the same way. Um, so. And then the thing.

Speaker B: No one knows. So it's yours at that point.

Speaker A: Yeah, I've always, like, I've always been a little sensitive with some of that stuff because, like. Like, I definitely don't want to be a stealer. Uh, but at a. But at a certain point, when you've said it so many times, like, how many times are you going to keep telling me. Keep saying that you heard it from somebody? But I usually try to give him his m. The credit because, like, he's helped me a lot. And then I, Like Gary Vee. You know, it seems like he's a genuine guy. He's helped me out a lot as well. Um, so those. Those are two people that. That I would. I would call out.

Speaker B: Well, I think those are great. So I'm gonna have to keep that. I'm gonna keep the. Have to keep that question, uh, handy for people that are dyslexic, because I'm not a reader either. So I'm always like, yeah, you'd be

Speaker A: surprised how many books I've read. It's like, uh, it's. That's very. I consume my information through video and, you know what else? Through talking to people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, like, I. A lot of my best friends were like, our intellectual types. And so I'll just sit there and I'll just like, they're my Cliff Note, basically.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'll just be like. Like, I. And that. That also made. Made. It made me, um, a good interviewer in some sense is. It's like, I know how to pull information out of people that I need. I need to, like, I can just keep pulling it from you until I have the mental framework I need, and then. And then I can, um. And then I can move with it. So, like, that's. That's been a. Like a. A way I've kind of compensated for not being, uh, the best reader or writer I can read. It's just painful and it's not fun, so I don't do it.

Speaker B: I completely understand. Well, um, I think we covered a lot. I hope you people get a ton of value. Please check them out. Stephen G. Pope. Uh, pretty much all platforms. Um, thank you for your time. We appreciate you.

Speaker A: This has been awesome, man. And I look forward to helping you out in the community. And this is just a testament, guys. Like, we met on TikTok, and, uh, it's like, you can do. You can do. You can meet really cool people and network and make a lot of great relationships if you. If you do it the right way. So.

Speaker B: And connect and connect. Connections is important.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: Well, thanks for your time. Please check us out. Uh, Stevie G. Pull up on all platforms.

Speaker A: Thanks, man. I appreciate you having me on.

Speaker B: All right. Boom. That was dope, man.

Speaker A: Right on. That was fun.

Speaker B: I like podcasting.

Speaker A: I did, too. I do too. Like, and I. I especially. I especially like guesting, too. It's like, um, I. I think I enjoy guesting almost like I. I've kind of. I have a podcast, but it's kind of. It's morphed over time. And, uh, now I'm doing, like, these little expert panels and, um. And, uh, sometimes just, like, repurposing podcasts I was on. And, um. But yeah, no, I appreciate you having me on and. And just kind of going down the various rabbit holes that we. We went down.

Speaker B: No, I. I like. I like having unusual, um, conversations because, like, a lot of podcasts. A lot of podcasts I go on, they're like. They get like, the same. I have to feel like it's saying. I feel like it's the same podcast every time they go on. This is boring.

Speaker A: Well, sometimes people, like, all they want to do is talk about what they do.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I hate that.

Speaker A: And I hate that, too. Like, I. Why? What? So I like to just stay in the moment, and, um, I like to talk about new ideas and, like, learn from people and stay on the edge. And so that's. That's. Usually there's more.

Speaker B: There's more depth.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think so.

Speaker B: There's more depth. I appreciate the conversation, man. I think we went really deep, and I hope it wasn't a normal conversation you normally get.

Speaker A: No, uh, no, it isn't. And it's good. It'll be good for content, too. I'm actually. I have a camera that's filming me out. You'll. You'll see.

Speaker B: I'll send you this recording, too.

Speaker A: Okay, cool. Yeah, you'll see some. You'll see if you're. If you see my Tick tock still, like, you'll see a few pop.

Speaker B: I do.

Speaker A: Okay, cool.

Speaker B: I do. I still see them.

Speaker A: Good. I get.

Speaker B: I get. This is of Stephen Pope every once in a while.

Speaker A: Yeah, Tick tock's weird. Like, it shows a lot of your content to new people all the time,

Speaker B: but people that follow your content, it shows it sporadically.

Speaker A: Yeah, sporadically. So sweet, man.

Speaker B: Interesting. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Speaker A: Let's find some other ways to collaborate in the future. All right?

Speaker B: All right. Sounds good, man.

Speaker A: Appreciate it. Have a great day. You too. Sam.

Speaker B: Mhm.