Exploring Cloud Native Rejekts and community organizing

All right, so here we are at DevOps Dispatch Live at KubeCon North America, Chicago 2023. I fit that all in there. My name is Laura Santa Maria and I'm a lead developer advocate at Dell and I have a very special guest with me. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Hi, everyone. I'm Benazir Khan. I'm a community program manager at Microsoft. And thank you so much, Laura, for having me today.

I'm blocking the camera view. We're so excited. I'm very excited to have you. Yes, me too.

We survived a busy weekend before KubeCon because we were at Cloud Native Rejects. This is the conference that you organize. Yes. You want to talk, what is Cloud Native Rejects for people who don't know?

Right. So Cloud Native Rejects was developed. It was this idea that Chris Kuhl, who is a former CEO at Kinfolk, came up with this idea of like, you know, let's have a conference, which is right before KubeCon. Yeah.

And we host talks with an organized platform where people who have their talks rejected from KubeCon actually get a chance to present. And it also came with the idea that, of course, yes, your talk may be rejected from KubeCon, but there's still quality talks. Yeah, absolutely. And let's have that platform where folks can come in.

And of course, it kind of branched into something more in terms of like a fun community conference and, you know, fun vibe. And just everyone having this warm ambience and atmosphere to come and mingle in. Lexi drove it for a few years, of course. Andy has been around for it as well.

And yes, I'm slowly beginning to take on the mantle. And yes, it's been quite exciting. And of course, you know, I have them to thank for all their guidance and all of the support that they've shown over time. And it's something that, you know, also is kind of something that I'm learning to do over time.

I'm relatively new to the space. I know I've been around for two years or so, but about two years, I think I would say. But it's constant learning for me, too. Yeah.

Yeah. It's really fun, isn't it? It's like organizing an event. I mean, it's also exhausting.

Oh, yes. I mean, how long did you sleep on Monday? Let's be honest. How long did you sleep after rejects?

Hardly. Hardly. Yes. I have to say, I think once I wrapped up, I guess it's also the adrenaline and also flying from Berlin to here and kind of working with that, powering through it over the weekend and, you know, not really having much time to think about how exhausted I am, but also feeling it.

Yeah. Yeah. wanting to give in finally when everything was all wrapped up, but also finally not able to give in because now I've kind of, you know, gotten into this mode where I'm like, oh, I can work through this. And I already started thinking about Rejects Paris, which is also something that I'm driving, which is on March 17th and 18th next year, right before you're gone again.

Yes. And of course, as I mean, we've discussed this exhaustively during Rejects Chicago. And thank you for all of your help volunteering there. It was fun.

We've discussed this exhaustively and basically the runway from now to Rejects Paris isn't that much. No, it's not. There's a lot to put together in what I would deem is roughly two and a half months because I'm also thinking of December and January really as one month with all of the holidays coming in and all of that. But yeah, we'll see.

We'll see how far we get. And like with any Rejects, we'll of course get everything done and everything ready for the community. and yes it's like magic you just kind of get it moving and then poof it works and you get to it and then you get through it and then you go how did I do that yeah really absolutely I mean I have so much respect for people who do this and and run meetups and do so many other things for the community and come up with all kinds of cool new initiatives like you hosted this podcast for instance and you know all of this I mean it's I think at some point you're probably on autopilot Yes, just a little bit.

I have a feeling, but I haven't ever really fleshed this idea out. But now that we're talking about it, I feel like, let me articulate this idea and see what Laura thinks. All right. Well, let's hear it.

Let's hear it. I think I personally think that at some point you really know from the get go. You know, you assess the scope, you know what you need, you know what you need to do. And you know how many things need to be prepared.

and you have a plan that's quite clear and then you have a plan a b c d yes because you're like plan a is going to fail i need a plan b plan b could go you know sideways let's have a plan c and a plan d and stuff like that so i think it's this constant mode in which you're thinking about the community you're thinking about the talks you're thinking about the scheduling you're thinking about you know the theme of different talks and kind of having an equitable distribution in terms of both the levels at which the technical expertise of the speakers were coming in but also giving them this platform and ensuring that you know everyone gets an equitable distribution, at least in terms of speaking, a speaking opportunity, but also a chance to actually talk about their product, but not as a pitch of any kind.

Right, right. You have all of these things that you're thinking of, which is high-level stuff. It's the big picture stuff. And it comes down to also, oh, but I need to make sure that this is done perfectly with the right kind of theming and the graphics and what kind of theming I want to go for and all of that.

Because let's face it, we're all also visual. So graphics play an important role. And then you're thinking about, yes, but there's also where it's actually happening because it's all in person. And then you're thinking about having the perfect venue, but not just for the talks, but also for its after effects.

Like, what do people do after it or like in the interim? And you're thinking of the perfect space for everyone to come together, have a cup of coffee, discuss some of these ideas. Because I've heard this time and time again. And it's something that it really fills my heart with so much warmth that people actually find rejects to be the spot.

that one place where you know surprisingly get to have a lot more productive conversations but you yes you've come in to attend some talks and support friends and peers and colleagues and then you're like okay but I don't know this you know I don't know he's arriving or I don't know she's going to be here yes you know and then they get get talking and yeah that's I that for me is really like good um kind of that pleasant surprise kind of factor which is um something we want to also keep going and you know we we want to make sure that it's also something that people keep coming back for right and just having that means there should be enough of a comfortable space for all of that to happen like a physical space and um yes so of course there's like you know the more seamless i've told this to you i think but i i genuinely believe that the more seamless a lot of these things that you wouldn't otherwise think about seeing the more effort is gone yes um behind the scenes for it and to make sure that you know it's all set and ready for everyone to just come and enjoy yeah exactly i mean i'll be honest with you as somebody's been doing a lot of events and things like that it's you get to a point where you can't be a perfectionist you have to let it go but you're also kind of on autopilot because you've done it so many times and the graphics just kind of fall together sort of maybe possibly if you're lucky things just kind of fall together over time and you're just like i know it's going to happen yeah i know we're gonna have something yes it's just a question of what will that thing eventually look like yeah but yes that is the wonderful thing about community events in general is that smaller atmosphere the better conversations that you get yeah and i mean i said this about rejects before i showed up for rejects this year was it's a chance to connect with everybody before the big conference so that you can just breathe for a minute i mean well maybe if you're not helping run it but it's more of like you kind of get to breathe yeah i was just going to ask laura did you get to breathe really uh you were one way as an organizer yeah you know do you mean as an organizer in general or are you talking about volunteering for rejects actually yeah as you can imagine there's so much that we're depending on the community for it really is i mean it shows at rejects too like we expect like you know to run all of this and you know to do a pristine job of it all but in the end there's so much help from the community that yes helps it all come together you know like of course I could be brainstorming and troubleshooting and all of that, but you still need so many folks from within the community who know this space really well, who know the speakers, who kind of know the schedule, they know where things are going and how the flow of the show is and how the flow of the program is.

They just kind of, you know, like you get it. You would get that, yes, of course, I mean, these folks are arriving and they could be coming in from everywhere, you know, and they're flying in sometimes of course they're flying in for kubecon but they've kind of made that effort yes to fly in and be there for rejects so of course we appreciate that and of course like to kind of have that uh flow smoothly you need you need volunteers like yourself like ram like so many others who come and help out with rejects and um you're there and you're able to guide them like yes you don't have to you know you have an hour it's okay go get a coffee sit down and work on your slides and it's okay maybe you're giving a lightning talk maybe you're giving a 30-minute session um it's okay you can figure it out you probably don't need 45 slides yeah just a note just a note yeah you could probably it's rejects you know it's the one conference where you don't have to think of your 30-minute session as oh my god i need to know top down what order exactly how it's going to be it's not that formal and that's a good thing you could play around a little bit with the format you could probably go like you know actually I would probably like to do lesser slides if I have the opportunity I also exhausted but I also know what I going to talk about and maybe I then open it up to a discussion if I have some time and you know try and see what the audience is feeling and you know get some feedback therein And of course once your timer is done and all of that you then have the opportunity to kind of breeze through it and go like hey you know we going to carry on this conversation right outside and let do that Right, right.

And people get that opportunity to actually meet the right audience. That, too, happens at Rejects, you know. So it kind of organically comes together that way. But of course, there is a concerted effort in terms of strategy to have, you know, talks placed in a certain way and in a certain order, a certain time of a day.

And, you know, of course, there's also there's availability of speakers, et cetera, that comes into play as well. But yes, like I said, I'll circle back to the point of if it's that seamless, it means there's a lot of attention to detail in the background. And yes, I also was talking to Bart about this at some point, who was also at Rejects and chatting with some folks. And I think the thing that I've learned over time, over the last few Rejects, is the fact that you learn to step back and also understand where you're obsessing over certain details.

Yes. Where you need to pay attention to the big picture. Yes. And the fact that it's still running and it's running well.

Yes, there could be hiccups here and there, but it's mostly running well. Yes. The community is happy. The people are happy.

They see value in everything else. Yes, I can see that. Yes, that other thing could have gone so much better. I did a dry run and all of this.

And, you know, like, oh, you know, this shouldn't have happened, for instance, or something like that. Like, oh, what about this hiccup? Like, you know, like something like a glitch with the graphics or something. you're like i think about that sometimes because i can i can see i can see that and i'm like i can see the recordings and i see the mistakes and all of that but um it's a good reminder to step back and remind yourself that hey but yeah the main thing is most of it ran really well and a lot of it gained value out of it people tuning in were able to tune in because there was a live stream set up for instance and they are going to have those recordings it's not going to be in the perfect order likely but um you know there could be some hiccups here and there but they're still going to benefit from the fact that yeah okay I was thinking about this topic I was thinking of um you know security I was thinking about some of this information and I see some of these slides and I see some of this um you know topic being covered from like these different perspectives and I can follow up with this speaker or that speaker and probably proceed towards a potential collaboration, see how that goes and all of that.

So that really is the big picture stuff. And when that happens, and it almost always happens, there's always an organic way that people find that helpful and useful. I've seen so many people come up to me and even today, like at KubeCon, even earlier and stuff like that, they come up to you and they tell you, oh, that was useful. That was the value.

Yeah. I probably wouldn't get to do that at KubeCon, but I got to do that at Rejects. Yes. Because they weren't expecting it.

And, you know, we're also like, yes. That's the best part. Of course, come have fun and everything. Attend a talk or two and you never know.

You might find your next potential collaboration. Right, exactly. Your next potential project to work, you know, on something that you've been very passionate about. Right, right.

And you probably didn't really know where to begin and stuff like that. But Rejects is also where, I mean, I also tell myself when I have that chance to you know spend more than a few minutes at a talk I also tell myself that oh this is a great opportunity for me to try and sit down and enjoy the vibe of this conference you know and try and learn from this talk because some of those talks are also because there are different levels of technical expertise you also kind of go like oh I want to learn about for instance right where do I begin and you will find some some of that at rejects you know where you go like yeah you don't have to be at you know at a certain level yeah to kind of go and attend that particular talk or some of those talks and that's why like there's something for everyone like they're people who are far far too advanced in some of these technologies and of course they're users and everything and they know where they're arriving and you know and they know what they're talking about they know what they're looking for good but yes I've also heard a lot of people actually say that oh you know I actually got to learn about that thing and I guess I wouldn't ask anyone at kubecon because the idea is that you need to be at a certain level of technical expertise or you need to know a certain something something about that topic before you go into something as big as kubecon something as formal as kubecon right so yeah yeah it's a great conference for that and yeah it definitely is that scenario where people never actually know just all that work that goes on behind the scenes because i've yeah i've worked with brand new organizers who are kind of like, oh, it just kind of happens, right?

Well, no, no, it doesn't. Yeah. Before you try to do a conference, let me tell you, there's a lot more work going on. But yeah, and then I don't know.

I've always found that community events, smaller events, I guess I should say more even more so than community events but just smaller events a couple hundred people Yeah People make connections connections And that really the value of it And I know a lot of people kind of wonder, well, why would I pay X amount of dollars? Maybe it's like $100 for a ticket there when I, you know, business wise, maybe I should send all my people to these big conferences where I meet lots of people.

Well, not really, because they're not going to go up and just talk to people. not most let's be honest most of us don't really feel comfortable just walking up to a random group people and going hi i don't know what you're talking about but i'm going to join you or is it at rejects you know like oh we all just watch that talk together we all just got a chance to explore that idea together or in in at least in my case maybe maybe it's just me i know a lot of people there so it's my chance to introduce oh hey i'm going to introduce you two people i think you two should meet yeah oh you're interested in learning about wasm let me introduce you to this person when i get a chance to see them at coopcon or if they're here at rejects or something like that so overall i think it's good i think rejects is a wonderful thing now we are getting close to time yes so i want to give you a chance you can plug anything you want what's going on in your world yeah tell me about it well i've already started planning for rejects paris like i mentioned earlier it's in it's on march 17 18 right before kubecon again oh boy um so yes sponsorships on my mind and i was talking to some folks earlier today as well and the idea is that to also i mean the idea with sponsorship for rejects is also to give people and you know like a stake at the conference and to actually help us shape this as the collaborative conference it is yes you know it's not a pure Microsoft or Azure thing.

Of course, we are part of, you know, Azure and all of that. But the idea is, if you've seen our sponsors list and everything, it's always been a bunch of different folks, a bunch of different companies and all of that. And it's kind of always had that vibe and we've maintained that. And we want to continue that because it just makes us very proud that we're able to bring so many folks together and, you know, and have all of them kind of have a stake at the conference and, you know, also kind of attend, enjoy, participate in every which way.

So if everyone's, if there's anyone interested, yes, please write to me or sponsorship at rejects.io. Absolutely. Would love to chat about how you can get involved.

The other thing that, you know, the interesting thing that I was also thinking about, which I think came up a few times was also, I think we discussed this briefly during rejects. We might have. is how rejects is actually complementary to kubecon yeah you know yes there are a lot of i mean yes we're talking about you know the intimacy the warmth and you know the usual positives in terms of advantages that come up for rejects but what's also cool is building those connections finding you know expanding your network at rejects but also carrying that over to kubecon right because now you have you now you identify these these folks that you'd probably meet at KubeCon.

And it kind of helps you sharpen the agenda for your KubeCon even better, like come in with more clarity. Like, oh, I know these folks. I met them at Rejects. Here's how I'd like to take that connection forward or just chat up at KubeCon in a more focused manner because KubeCon is also that kind of, it gives you that platform.

It's that much bigger. So you can take advantage of it. And it has its own big, big positives. Of course, I see that.

absolutely um you need something more structured you need you need more visibility like this and stuff like that right when people actually attend rejects and find these connections and then they're able to carry it forward to kubecon and it fleshes out hopefully into something way more productive into the future yes that's just that's just brilliant and it just makes it just makes me so happy and you know it's heartwarming when uh folks come up to you and tell you that hey that It was really cool because I could really flesh that out.

I could flesh out ideas that I was thinking about at Rejects, talk to some folks who may be able to help, and then carry that onward and forward into KubeCon. And yeah, and onward from there. So yeah, yeah, that's really amazing. Randomly, as we're noticing, wander in and knock into people at the booth and go like, oh, hey, I met you at Rejects.

So you said sponsorship.rejects.io. Sponsorship at Rejects.

io. At Rejects.io. So sponsorship at Rejects.

io. And that's with a K, not with a C. Yes. For people who need to know that.

Thank you, Laura. I should clarify that one. You know Rejects way too well now. I do.

I do. I know how this works. So yes, you're looking for Cloud Native Rejects with a K. Yes.

If you're Googling it, you'll be able to find everything there. So we'll see you in March. That should be lots of fun. Oh, lovely.

Yes. And that's in Paris. Yeah, can't wait. Not in Chicago.

Just so that you know. Yes. This has been DevOps Dispatch Live here at KubeCon North America, Chicago, 2023. I got, again, all of that in.

My name is Laura. I'm Benazir. And now we're going to say bye. Bye.