Thought Leadership for Female Founders: How Writing a Book Builds Your Personal Brand

Lindsay Pinchuk: Welcome back to Dear Founder. I'm Lindsay Pinchuk, your host and last week we kicked off a brand new month in a new theme here at Dear Found Her. I have been waiting to bring you today's guest for months. Truthfully, this month on Dear Founder, the theme is your story is your strategy. Now, most small business owners are still leading with their offer when they should be leading with their why. And every guest that I'm bringing you in June is going to show you from a different angle how their story is the thing that actually built their business. Not their funnel, not their ads, their story. And you hear me say it all the time. Share your story Share your story Share your story this is what we're talking about all month long. Now, today's guest is Ruthie Ackerman. Ruthie is the author of the Mother Code, a memoir published by Random House. She's the former deputy editor at Forbes Women, and she's now the founder of Ignite Writers Collective, where she works with women on their books and book proposals. Because as ah, she'll tell you, 82% of people say they want to write a book and only 2% actually do. She is on a mission to close that gap. Here's what I want you to listen for in this conversation. Ruthie said something to me on this episode that I want every woman building anything to hear. She said, no one is going to have faith in the project until you have faith in the project. That is the whole job description of being a founder. And we're going to spend a lot of time in today's episode unpacking what that actually looks like in practice. One more thing before I let you into the conversation. Ruthie and I met through our mutual friend Amy Nelson, founder of the Riveter, at her summit for podcasters and newsletter writers called the Gathering in November of 2025, which in itself is the perfect example of what we talked about all last month. Partnerships and connections are how this work actually happens. So with that, here's my conversation with Ruthie Ackerman. Welcome to Dear Founder. I'm Lindsay Pinchuk, founder, acquired entrepreneur and part of the less than 1% of female founders who have led a company through acquisition. I built my first business from just $500 to seven figures without a marketing budget, simply using community, smart publicity, partnerships and clear messaging. Now I host this show for women over 40 stepping into their next chapter, whether that's launching, pivoting or scaling. Each week you'll hear real founder stories about growing an audience, getting press, leading teams, navigating scaling challenges, and becoming more visible in the right ways. No fluff, no gatekeeping. Just what works around here. We build businesses that actually work with strategy, visibility, and each other. Welcome back to another episode of Dear Found Her. I'm so excited about today's guest for so many reasons, but first and foremost, today's guest, um, is really a testament to the power of connections and networking. I met Ruthie at the gathering hosted by our mutual friend Amy Nelson back in November of 2025, and. And we just had a great conversation, and I knew she was someone that I needed to get to know more, and I wanted to know what she did. And I'm sharing that with you because oftentimes we talk here about networking and connections and really leveraging those opportunities, and you really never know who's sitting across from you when you are having a conversation. And today's episode is proof of that. So today my guest is Ruthie Ackerman, who is the author and founder of Ignite Writers Collective. Ruthie, I'm so excited that you're here, and I can't wait to have this conversation.

Ruthie Ackerman: Thank you so much for having me, Lindsay.

Lindsay Pinchuk: Of course. So I'd love for you to start us off by sharing your story and telling us a little bit about what it is that you do.

Ruthie Ackerman: Yeah. So I wrote a memoir called the Mother Code, which came out in. Last year, in May, almost a year ago, which still blows my mind. It was published by Random House. And the. I mean, the biggest thing I want to say is that writing a book is just as hard as. As you would think it is. Um, and there were many different versions of my book before it actually was, before I got an agent, before it was bought, before it was out in the world. And I feel like there's this glamorous idea of what it means to write and publish a book. And there's glamour, but there's a lot of hard work, too, and a lot of different skill sets involved, which I know we'll get to talk about, because it's not just the writing. There's a lot of other pieces. And the other piece of me, because I said, um, I wrote this book, but I also work with people. I'm a book doctor, developmental editor, book coach, whatever you want to call me. But I work with people on their books and book proposals to get them across the finish line, and because the stat still blows my mind. But 82% of people say they want to write a book, but only 2% actually do. So I'm trying to close that gap, it's so crazy.

Lindsay Pinchuk: But even before you wrote your book, you've always been a writer, correct?

Ruthie Ackerman: That's right. So I was a journalist. I went to NYU for grad school and journalism. I worked at Forbes. My last job before I wrote this book and started my business was as the deputy editor at Forbes Women. So I've always been a journalist, I've always been a writer. And most importantly, I think, is that I always had a passion for getting more women's voices out into the world because I think it's a radical act in a society that wants to shut us up.

Lindsay Pinchuk: What was the pivot that made you decide to write this book and kind of veer away from writing for publications?

Ruthie Ackerman: So there's. There's a number of stories I can tell you about that, and I still write for. For a number of publications. But I was laid off from my job at Forbes Women. There was two different parts of the business that was. That were focused on women. They merged those two parts, and I ended up being laid off the month before. I was. So I was laid off in April 2019. Uh, the month before, I had decided to do a writing class that I publicized on my Instagram, which was not very big, and kick off what turned into the Ignite Writers Collective, which is my business. But I didn't know deep inside, like, why I was doing this. I just felt like I work with all these writers as an editor at Forbes Women. I know that there are women out there that want to share their voices and learn how to write. I should start this business. Well, lo and behold, I get laid off the next month. And I was thinking, oh, I'll just get another media job, because that's what I'd always done. And as I did that, I was gonna just keep doing more classes and see what happened with my business. Very quickly, it eclipsed any amount of money that I had made in media prior. And so that was actually the first step. I know you asked me about writing my own book, but they're interconnected because it was once I started teaching these classes, then I was like, you know what? I'm teaching other people how to get their voices out in the world. But my voice has only been out in the world through these other publications. And so I wanted to tell my own personal story. And I was very lucky. But I got the first personal essay I wrote, ended up being a modern love essay for the New York Times about my egg freezing procedure that didn't end end up working. None of my eggs were viable and that, that essay really catapulted me because then I had, you know, agents knocking down my door and I had people saying like, oh, where's the book version of this? And I was like, oh, I better write the book.

Lindsay Pinchuk: When did it become Ignite Writers Collective? And what does it look like today?

Ruthie Ackerman: So I was teaching one class at a time only in person from March 2019, and in Midtown Manhattan. Only if you lived in New York City could you come. Because I was doing them in person because I thought you can only create intimacy in person. It was already called the Ignite Writers Collective then, just so you know. But when did it really start? It really started in March 2020, when suddenly I had to tell my class, we can't meet. We'll probably meet next week. I mean, of course I didn't know. We went online and then next thing you know, everyone's at home. And I had clients, I had people zooming in from all over the world to be in my classes. So it was like an accident in a way. I say to start my business, but then suddenly a, uh, year later, it was like full on. But now my business is so different than it was back then. I still teach my, my eight week classes, kind of for anyone who's exploring, writing for create, like to get their creative juices flowing, writing a book. And then I also work one on one with clients on book proposals and book manuscripts. And I also do longer book incubators for people that are working on books and in person retreats too. So my business has grown as people have asked for different things.

Lindsay Pinchuk: Hi, guys, it's me, Lindsay. Here's what nobody tells you about building a business. As a woman over 40, the loneliest part isn't the hardest days. It's not having a single person in your life who actually gets it. And that's why I built the Dear Found her forum inside our networking community. Our members are creating content together, booking each other on their podcasts, co hosting live events, and hiring each other for real paid work. Not because I set it up, because when the right women are in the same room, this is the stuff that happens. This is the community that I built for you. It's the one I wish I had 17 years ago when I became an entrepreneur. Get in the room where partnerships begin. The link is in the show notes. When did you start writing your book?

Ruthie Ackerman: I started writing my book. So my daughter. So I got pregnant December 2019. Uh, my daughter was born August 2020. So lose my job in April, start my business in March 2019, get pregnant December 2019. Everything ramps up with my pregnancy and my business. And then my daughter's born in August 2020. And in December 2020, I, like, woke up. Well, who knows if I was even asleep? But I, like, had this idea that came into my brain for the first chapter of my book. So three months, when she was three

Lindsay Pinchuk: months old, a big piece of why I wanted to have you come on was not just to talk about your business, but was just to talk about the book writing process. When you and I first had our first conversation online together, that was kind of what we were talking about. Like, I was very interested. Process. A lot of people tell me all the time that I should write a book. I'm not interested at the moment. You're shaking your head for those of you who are listening, not watching. But maybe one day, the moment I feel my plate is full. But I do know that there are so many women out there listening and so many women in the Dear Founder community who would love to write a book and just don't know where to start. And I will say the very first thing when you go to Ruthie's website that you see is a pop up that says these. Ask yourself these five questions before you start writing a book. So I would love to know, what are those five questions? Like, what, what do you do before you start writing? Like, what gives someone the vindication to be like, yeah, I can do this. And I. And I'm going to be an author, I can write a book.

Ruthie Ackerman: Of course I can feel like people. I'm going to get to the questions. But I think what happens is somebody has a life experience that is, you know, very, very close to their heart. And then people in their life say, you should write a book. And then they're like, yeah, I should write a book. And they go to a writing class or they meet me and they're like, you know, I need to do this thing. And it's a bucket list item for people. Um, and that makes total sense. The five questions were really my way of getting people to go from this, like, I want to write a book to being tactical about what that means. Because the questions you have to ask yourself are, uh, why are you the one to write this book? Why should this book be written now? Why not last year or five years from now? And what is it about this book that's going to differentiate it from the thousands and thousands of other books that also are going to come out that year? Those are three of the five questions. So just really Understanding, because I think people come with the idea that they want to write a book, but they don't know quite what the book would be about. Or they think they know, but it turns out that's not exactly it. So I think really the why you, why now? Why this book?

Lindsay Pinchuk: And once you have the answers to those questions and once you have the idea for what it is that you're going to write about, like what do you do next? And I think that that's probably one of the biggest hang ups and reasons why people don't do it is because they're like, everyone can sit down and write, but then they're like, what am I going to do with this? And in my writing the right thing and is someone going to actually buy this? So what is that like, first step

Ruthie Ackerman: that someone should take, figuring out uh, what your goal is for the book is? Depending on what your goal is will depend on the path you should take to get there. So if your goal is to write a book that gets published by a big five traditional publisher like a Random House, like I did, you need to know that, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that being the goal, I should say the sort of stamp of approval, the kind of dream of a big advance, all of those things. But you need to know that that means getting an agent and we can talk about more about the process. But that uh, means getting an agent. That means writing uh, a book proposal. And that takes a long time at best, I would say four to five years to get that book out in the world. Okay. If your goal is to write a book and just get it out quickly and money's not an issue and you want real control over the process, then self publishing is a really good way to go. And you don't need a book proposal and you don't need an agent. And there are these uh, kind of packaging companies that can help make the book beautiful and all of that. So there's that option and then there's hybrid publishing which is in between, um, and there's lots of different versions of it. So I don't want to bore you with all the details, but the point is knowing what the end goal is and figuring that out. And I spend so much time in brainstorming calls with people trying to help figure that piece out because that will determine the next step. Most people that come to me end up ultimately deciding they want to get a big five publishing deal. And that means that the next step is a book proposal.

Lindsay Pinchuk: And what does a book proposal even

Ruthie Ackerman: look like, this is. It's the funniest thing because I think proposal people get in their head. It's like, oh, it's a one pager or something short, like a summary, a cliff notes of the book. But my book proposal that sold my book, the mother code, was 90 pages long. It is a long document that shows the agent and eventually the publisher, not only that you have poked and prodded the hell out of your book idea, but that you can actually write the book because you've thought it through. It's a beast of a document. So what does it have? It has sample chapters, I would say between 1 and 3, depending on the length of those chapters. It has chapter summaries, which are not summaries. They're like one to two pages each. And they have to include what are the scenes that you're going to have? Who are you going to interview? Are there going to be case studies? You have to have done the research and the sort of all the pieces, even interviewed people before writing this proposal. You need a full marketing plan. Everyone you never, you know, haven't talked to since middle school. That's an important person in the world. Now you're going to find those people and you're going to figure out how they can help you. So there's a lot of pieces and the landscape analysis of other books in your genre and what those books do, what your book does that those books don't do. So really, what's the gap in the market?

Speaker C: Hi, I'm Leah Sullivan. Before TaskRabbit, before Venture Capital, before, before Breaking Precedent, I was a person learning how to perform under pressure. I recorded an episode with Lindsay Pinchuk for her Dear Found her podcast all about my journey. We talk about the early days, scale, lessons learned, and what I think the industry gets wrong. Stay here in the Dear Found her feed to hear my upcoming episode with Lindsay and listen to Breaking Precedent.

Lindsay Pinchuk: Wherever you listen to podcasts, I'm gonna give a quick shout out before I ask my next question. Amy Schoenthal, who I know worked with you, was on my show last year, the year before it was right when her book came out. And we did talk a lot about the marketing piece. And to your point, a big piece of our conversation was that Amy reached out to every single person that she's ever known to potentially get this book out into the world. So it's, you know, and I think, and I'm bringing that up and I'm sharing that because I do think that a lot of times when someone sits down to write a book, they don't think of that piece of it the way that you would as an entrepreneur. Of course, as an entrepreneur, you're going to think of your marketing plan. But people don't always think of the marketing plan for their book the same way they would for their business.

Ruthie Ackerman: 100%. And you have to, because Amy did it all herself. And I think there's something really powerful about that, because I think what happens is a lot of people think, oh, my publisher is going to take care of that, or the book's going to speak for itself, or the New York Times is going to review it, and so then everyone's going to find it, or whatever is the fantasy in people's heads. But the truth is, as the writer, you have to be a marketer, too. And you also have to be a good storyteller. You have to be able to get on podcast and get on stages and be able to know what are the talking points, what are the kind of tidbits that are going to draw people in? And you have to be able to talk about what are the pain points that other people are feeling in their lives that are going to connect to something you're writing about? Because at the end of the day, no one's going to pay 30 bucks for your hardcover unless you're addressing something that they're also dealing with. And so I had to learn. I mean, I wrote a memoir, but I had to figure out what parts of my story are really universal that are going to be things that other people are feeling too. Now, you know, Amy had to do the same thing.

Lindsay Pinchuk: What are, like, three tips that you would give to helping with the writing process? And I think, you know, that's a big piece, too, is like, to sit down and write and what are you writing about? And of course, if you have a proposal that's been bought, you're going to go buy the outline of the proposal. But what are some tips to really help along that process?

Ruthie Ackerman: Man, there are so many things to, uh, think about. I mean, one, no one's going to have faith in the project until you have faith in the project. So I think a lot of times people are looking for sort of the nod of approval from an editor or an agent, but you have to really believe in it, which I know is very hard because it's like, oh, but no one said it's going to be good yet, or no one's bought. Like, no publisher has bought it. You have to believe in it first, which is hard. The other thing is Mark off your calendar. It's a, uh. Like you go. You know, you have to pick up your kid from school, or you have to go to the gym, or you have a work meeting. Mark off. I mean, it sounds simple, right? But mark off your calendar. This is protected time. So that was really big. I still mark off my calendar. And it says on my calendar, invite, you're a writer, so write. Because the other piece is that even though I've written a book, I go through the whole, like, inner critic thing that I'm sure a new writer would go through too, which is. But I'm not really a writer. I make money doing other things or whatever the voices are saying that day. Right. So giving yourself permission would be the third piece of advice. Because I. Especially as women, and I know maybe men will listen to this too, and that's fine. But especially as women, we find it very hard. Or I'll speak for myself, I find it very hard to give myself permission to take time away from all the many things I have to do. Unless it's something that makes money. And writing is not something that's going to make money, at least not in the short term. Um, because it's going to take you a while to write the thing. I think that's really important to remember. You have to give yourself permission to take the time and space and what

Lindsay Pinchuk: are some top don'ts you would tell someone who's looking to write a book or thinking about writing a book what not to do.

Ruthie Ackerman: Wow. I mean, one thing is there are people out there who have done this before. So finding someone, whether it's me or somebody else that can say, look, you're going to spend the next five years figuring this thing out. I can show you the, you know, dead ends I hit and the mistakes I made, so it doesn't take you as long. So don't, like, reinvent the wheel is one thing. Other don'ts. I mean, there's a whole slew of AI don'ts that we're seeing play out in real time, which is like the idea of writing a book that it comes from you. This is like, you know, you are sharing your voice with the world. It really needs to come from you. It has to be your voice. And we're seeing more and more how. I don't know if you read the Shy Girl was a book that had been pulled from publication because. Because it was found out that the author had used, uh, AI, or she said her editor did, but either way. So AI, there are a slew of Don'ts it's like, don't use AI to write your book. Another don't that's maybe a little bit counterintuitive is a lot of people, they want to show everyone what they've written too soon, when it's still fresh, and their ideas, their vision about the book is still malleable. And so what I see is like, you know, they wrote uh, 10 pages or 20 pages and that feels really exciting. And so they go and send that out to like five friends and then everyone has a different opinion on what they should do and then they get confused and, or, or someone critiques it and then they give up. And like, don't share your work too soon. Keep it like it's like a, a precious thing that you're, it's only yours for a little bit. And then once you have a draft, then you can maybe share.

Lindsay Pinchuk: We talked a little bit in the beginning you mentioned about getting an agent.

Ruthie Ackerman: Yeah. So, okay, there are most of the, the big publishers, the big five publishers, you will need an agent. They don't accept unsolicited manuscripts. But there are some smaller indie publishers and hybrid publishers where you don't need an agent. So this is why my point earlier about understanding your end goal is really important because you don't want to go spend all this time trying to get an agent if you don't need one. So that, that feels like, like the biggest thing to me. I'll say one more thing. Even though you might not need an agent for a smaller indie or for a hybrid, I always suggest having an agent because even though they take that 15%, and by the way, it's, that's an across the board standard, is 15% that they take. So even though you're be giving away some of your, your earnings, they can figure out how to get you the most money because they're going to know editors at uh, publishing houses and maybe they can say like have, you know, get an auction going or a bidding war or something or just be willing to ask for more for you. They're incentivized they don't get paid. An agent doesn't get paid unless they sell your book. And so they're incentivized to get the most money for you. So I always suggest agents. So where do you find them? The best way to find them is a warm intro from someone you know. So asking friends that you know have agents if they'd be willing to make an intro if it makes sense. Finding your favorite books, looking at the acknowledgement pages Everyone thinks they're agent. So find out who the agents are of your favorite books because that's probably an agent that would click with you, right? And then there's something called Publishers Marketplace. It's a website. You Pay, it's like 24.99amonth. I really wish they would charge more because then they could make the website more user friendly. But that's, you know, that's neither here nor there. But Publishers Marketplace is one of those places where you can uh, you know, filter agents by the themes for the type of books that they're looking for. Fiction versus nonfiction and so, and see who's gotten the biggest deals. So it's really helpful.

Lindsay Pinchuk: We also talked at the beginning about all these different hats and we've talked about, you know, writing and marketing. Like what else should you be prepared for as you're embarking on this journey of writing a book?

Ruthie Ackerman: So there's the writing piece, the revising and editing piece, which you can hire some outside people, but you still have to do some of that yourself too. Another misconception is that your editor at your publishing house is going to do the editing of your book. Sometimes that happens, but sometimes it doesn't happen. They're doing a lot of other behind the scenes things for your book. So not always editing. You need to be able to edit. You need to also fact check your book. A publisher doesn't factor. Fact check it. I hired a fact checker. But you either have to do that yourself or hire someone, um, any research, research assistants, you'll need that too. And then there's, there's the marketing. There's also project management, like who's going to book your book tour? Who's going to reach out to all of the um, you know, bookstores to try to get you, you know, an event. Who is going to. And it's not only marketing, it's also like publicity and just plain old email outreach. Like how are you going to get corporations, organizations to know about your work to buy your book if you don't have a speaking agency or something like that? Who is going to reach out to all of the media outlets to let them know that you have a book coming out? So I mean, I don't know how many things I just said, but you've got to know, you have to be like media trained to talk about your book. You've got to know how to slice and dice all the ideas and have like discrete points you're trying to make. You've got a market, publicity, project management. I mean It's a lot when we

Lindsay Pinchuk: just talked about all these different roles that. That you have to consider. How do you even navigate that process, especially if you have never done this before? I mean, like, someone like me, like, I know people in media training, I know people, you know in PR and publishing and, you know, that publicity, I know, I know these people that you're talking about. But, like, is there someone that can help you navigate that whole process and give you recommendations, or really, is it just like reaching out to people and word of mouth?

Ruthie Ackerman: That is what Ignite Writers Collective is now becoming. Basically an end to end, from the seed of your idea to publication and beyond. Because my books a year out from publication next month and I'm still doing stuff related to my book, so it's not just publication and done. So Ignite Writers Collective is becoming Ignite Studios. And what we're doing is all of that end to end where I know all the people that can. Some publishers don't do book covers, so I have book cover people. Like, you're probably not going to know all of those contractors, but. And also knowing who's good in each of these industries, that takes a lot of time. And so like I said earlier with, like, you know, don't reinvent the wheel. Just find somebody that has done this. And it's not just me doing it for my book, but doing it with so many clients that I figured it out now.

Lindsay Pinchuk: Hi, guys. It's Lindsay Pinchuk, host of Dear Founder. As entrepreneurs, you wear so many hats, don't you? Sometimes it's hard to know how and when and who to hire for help. But I want to say finding Hivecast to produce my podcast has been a godsend. They've been producing Dear Found her since season one, and honestly, I'm not sure what I'd do without them. Each week, I give them everything that they need to create the episodes that you hear. And not only do they produce and put out the episode, but they create all the awesome marketing materials that you see to promote it. They save me so much time, and honestly, their rates don't break the bank. What I love about them is that they make podcasting accessible to any small business owner who wants to create a podcast. I know that many of you have reached out to them already, but I just want to say, if you're thinking about a podcast of your own, reach out to the hivecast team. I promise they will make it seamless from the start. You can find them through the link in the show notes. And now back to the Episode. All right, so, Ruthie, at the end of every episode, I ask my guests, what are three actionable steps that you would take before founding a business? But what I want to ask you today is what are three actionable steps that you would tell someone who wants to write a book?

Ruthie Ackerman: Yeah, so if you want to write a book, you should one, sign up for my substack because I write a sub stack where I share and I hope Lindsay will put it in the show notes. But I write a substack where I share tips on writing, but also tips on things to think about for in the publishing process. So that's one piece. Also, go on to my website and download those five questions, like, ask, uh, yourself. Okay, great. So link those five questions. So ask yourself those five questions. Because understanding whether or not you really want to write a book is big. And then the other piece is thinking about those publishing goals, like, what do you want at the end of the day? Because some people are like, I just want to leave a legacy for my family. So my family knows what my story is. And that's fine too. There's no shame in any answer when it comes to publishing goals. But just knowing what that is is really.

Lindsay Pinchuk: And I guess to put it in simple terms for, for our listeners, Ruthie, does for authors what I do for small business owners. I mean, that's, that's really what you do. And that's why I wanted you to be here to share this knowledge. I think that, um, um, you know, I am all about asking for help and asking for support in different pieces of your business. And when you, you decide you want to do something like writing a book, coming into your midst is just such a big time and mental health saver, right? Than like trying to figure it out on your own. And like, that's really. I wanted people to hear this today because I want people to know that there are resources out there. You are one of them and you are a great resource if you do want to write a book. So. Ruthie Ackerman, author and founder of Ignite Writers Collective, I just want to thank you for being here and I want to thank you for sharing all of this knowledge and kind of insider scoop with us. I know it's hard to kind of get this information always, and so I really appreciate you taking the time to share it with our community.

Ruthie Ackerman: Of course. Thank you for having me. And also, if this feels overwhelming, which, listen, I would feel overwhelmed, I do single strategy sessions. If you just want to do one hour and sort of like, lay this all out and we'll brainstorm and like you just, you know, have someone that's there to bat things around with you that's, you know, perfectly fine. It doesn't have to be like you sign up for a six month class first thing. There's, there are smaller steps along the way.

Lindsay Pinchuk: Thank you so much.

Ruthie Ackerman: Thank you.

Lindsay Pinchuk: What a conversation. I want to thank Ruthie Ackerman for sharing all of that with us today. Here is the line from the episode that I want you to sit with this week. No one is going to have faith in the project until you have faith in the project. Again, no one is going to have faith in the project until you have faith in the project. That's true for the book that Ruthie wrote. It's true for the business she built. It's true for the launch you're afraid to do. The email you haven't sent. The offer you are still tweaking instead of telling people about. The world isn't going to believe in your story before you do. The work of believing in all of it is yours. Here's what I want you to do this week. Pick one piece of your business that you've been quiet about and tell someone, one person, a dm, an email, a coffee practice, saying out loud what you're building. That is the foundation that Ruthie's talking about. That is the work. Two quick reminders before I let you go. The full show notes for this episode, including the link to Ruthie's substack and her five questions to ask before you write a book are, uh, in the description. Second, make sure that you're subscribing to our substack the founder files for more actionable steps, especially this month on how to really tell your story. Next Tuesday on the show we have Odessa Jenkins, the founder of the Women's National Football Conference. She socialized a league that didn't exist and got 10 teams and two major brands to back her in 10 months. You are not going to want, want to miss it. I'll see you on Tuesday.