Ink and Inspiration - An Award Winning Author's Tale with Na'ima B Robert

Speaker A: Welcome to the Margin Business Digital Entrepreneur podcast. In today's episode, we got a very special guest. Um, I mean every guest is special, but you know, uh, now this is really special. So Naima B. Robert, she's an award winning author, a book coach, and the founder of the Muslima Author Project. Um, award winning author and she wrote about 30 books so far. But before I start telling her whole story, uh, I think it's better that um, Naima, you present yourself, you tell us what you're doing and um, how everything started, I mean from the beginning. And then I'm trying to give you some questions that we're going to walk our way through. How you did, how you do, did everything so far, um, and how you got there, where you are today.

Speaker B: It's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation. Um, I would say that most of my steps to where I am today were, um, by mistake, they were missteps. Um, I didn't ever intend to be a writer, for example, Uh, I thought writers were poor. I, I didn't want to be poor. So even though I really enjoyed writing when I was a teenager, becoming a writer was never a thing. So what actually happened was after I became Muslim, um, at the end of university, I got married and I had my first child. And I loved books, I've always loved books. And I used to take my baby to the library and we used to take out 15 books at a time. We loved the library. And what I noticed was there were, at the time, we're talking 2000 here, there were really hardly any books about Islam or Muslims. And the ones that were there were actually really dry and uninspiring and sometimes really badly written. And I wanted, I didn't want that experience for my son. I didn't want him to, you know, experience the so called mainstream books, which if you know anything about children's books, you know that it's a very evolved art form, right? And I didn't want him to have all these wonderful, almost transcendent experiences with these so called mainstream books. And then when it came to reading about Islam, it was like the second best option or the poor man's option. So I really racked my brain and I thought, how can we change this? I don't want this experience for him. So I literally started writing then and Alhamdulillah, uh, I was very blessed to have the support of my husband and he really pushed me to, to send my work out to publishers. And I got a publisher very, very quickly who saw the Potential in one of my stories, which was called the Swirling Hijab. And that was a very, very simple rhyming story about a little girl playing dress up, really, with her mother's hijab, and it becoming all these imaginary things. And, um, that was how it started because once I wrote one book for them, they asked me for another one, and then it kind of snowballed from there. And so Hamdullah, to date I've written, had almost 30 books published now. So children's, uh, teen novels and also nonfiction for adults. Um, so that was kind of by mistake, but it was a very, very happy mistake. Obviously everything is, you know, by Allah's plan. Um, uh, but that's how the writing came about with regards to the book coaching, which is what I do now. I had been, uh, run Sisters magazine for about 10 years, and by the time we finished up the Sisters magazine, sort of online advertising was becoming a thing. Online content was becoming a thing. This was the time of blogging, if you remember. You know, everybody was getting a blog and everybody was saying, you know, you should have a blog. And I started getting interested in digital marketing because my late husband's company was also kind of moving in that direction. So when I took over the company after he passed the Lion Hamil, I, um, we really wanted to explore this option. So we started learning, uh, from some of the kind of gurus out there, um, you know, doing the conferences and the summits and, you know, taking the courses to learn about email marketing, digital marketing, um, you know, SEO and all of this. Um, and it was when I came to the UK after I had closed that business, that I decided that I was going to not just write my own books, but help other women like me to, to start writing. Um, and so I did a course, uh, you know, like a launching course, an online launching course. And I decided that I was going to do my first little program, and I followed all the steps, and it was amazing because it was my first experience of actually launching something online, building up my little email list, uh, and making money online and know, teaching a class that was, you know, great success. And then after that I just said, okay, this is the direction that I want to go. I love online. I love what the online world has given us, especially as entrepreneurs. Um, I find it such an exciting space. I've had so many amazing mentors and coaches. I've been in so many coaching programs, invested a ton of money, you know, as you do. But now on so five years later, which is how long our project has been running. I can look back and say that was a huge leap in terms of knowledge, in terms of skills, in terms of connections and networks. And, uh, so Hamdullah, now we have two flagship programs. We did a lot of things along the way. We did the memberships, the online courses, you know, we did the workshops, the webinars. We did all of that. And now we have two flagship programs. One is a 90 day book program which is for nonfiction authors, and the other is a children's book program where we help you to write your children's book in five days and then we'll walk you through the process of publishing the book. And those two are, uh, our most successful programs. Uh, we are blessed to have been involved in dozens and dozens of books now out there in the world. We're coming up to 50, I think now we've passed 50, so it's a great place to be, uh, Alhamdulillah. And we just want to keep doing that for the next 20 years. Um, because what I decided, inshallah, was that I've had, you know, I would say, moderate success with my books. Uh, I was, I came into the industry before the diversity and equality and inclusion and representation. So I was, I was before all of that. And I was very fortunate to have publishers who believed in my stories and believed in my work. And so I feel like I would like to continue writing. And my goal is to die with 50 books. No, not 50. 100, 100 books under my belt. But now it's time for me to pay it forward because I can't write every book, I can't address every topic. You know, I can't talk about every challenge, but I can coach people to do that. So it's kind of my sneaky way of getting, like, the reward for all of this, uh, you know, this development in the industry by just being behind everybody and pushing them forward and saying, go, go, go. And then insha', Allah, uh, whatever reward is at the end of it, I hope, you know, will be in my scales as well.

Speaker A: Well, that's, that's an amazing story already. You know, it's, it's, it's great to hear that. And, you know, I must say, let's, let's start, let's start from the beginning. I must say that, um, it's kind of true what you're saying. And maybe I didn't realize it when I was small, but I realized it when my children were growing up. There was not too many books. Um, when we talk about 2010, 2000, 9. You know, there, there were a lot, A lot of books came out of Malaysia. Um, we, we, we, we, we when we were living there that we bought quite a lot. So it was, it was uh, you know, there was a beginning. But if you, if you talk about like going into the library when I was growing up or something, it's in, it's completely true. There was, you know, nothing even you know, German literature. Anyway, there was uh, almost nothing. So growing up, I, I understand. You know, I mean the UK was always, was always a little bit, um, further than any other country in the European Union because the communities and everything was, was more stable and there was more things going on and uh, I want. I wouldn't say that there was m. More, maybe more foreigners or more Muslims in, in the UK because uh, I don't think, I don't think like, uh, you. If you look at the percentage in the European Union, it's about the same, you know, or, uh, something. I don't know the exact, I don't know the exact numbers. But from, from what I know from what I, um. So for me, definitely, it's, it's. It's amazing what you have done so far. And um, the book industry in general is right what you're saying as well. It's, it's, it's looked upon like if, if somebody has no clue about it. He was like, oh, being an author, I don't know. I don't know if it's good or something. But recently what I've seen, what I've seen the tendencies is that we get, we get approached a lot by people who want to write books for us, like the head of companies, uh, or entrepreneurs, you know, we get approached like, uh, yeah, here, 15, uh, thousand. And then you can we write your book? You know, uh, yeah, you know, like sneaky emails like this, you know, and this as well. It's not, it's. I don't think it's very good. You know, when, when somebody approach you on this way, I think what you're doing. Like you said, okay, I wrote myself 30 books. Okay, maybe not my yourself, but you uh, know what I mean? Like, uh, with help with, with uh, publishers or something of that kind.

Speaker B: But no, I wrote them myself. No, no, I wrote them myself. I didn't publish my publishers, but I did write them myself.

Speaker A: Well, no ghostwriter, no anything.

Speaker B: No ghostwriter.

Speaker A: So you see what I mean? This is even, that's even more so you can say, okay, I wrote the 30 books and I know how it works. You Know, I mean, what. What, what else do. Do any. Anyone want when. When they want to, um. When they want to write a book themselves? So they have already. You done the way, um, you, You. You showed them how to do it, and you can, you can guide them through. And this is what I'm always saying as well, entrepreneurship, you know, um, and that's why I'm doing these podcasts as well, because this is for people who are. Who are standing in the beginning or who's standing at the end already and saying, I want to do more or I want to begin, and I don't know how to do it. You know, and it's not. It's not that you have to reinvent the wheel. You can just go like to Naima, for example. Do. Ask her, how can I write a book or go to X? How can I run the company? You know, and this, this is the beauty for. This is the beauty of the Internet today or of the digital business. And that's why digital business is so important, because we can do this from home. You can do this from your home. Uh, you know, we can spread out the mess anywhere in the world. Exactly. You know, and. And we have. And we have resources right now, and we just need to go to these resources. No matter what you want to do, you. You can do that. And this is, this is the beauty of the thing, you know, and, um, that's why I really appreciate, um, what. What you are doing and what you are, uh, um, what you mostly known for. So maybe we go a little bit, uh, before. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself. So where you from? Because I, um, know you have a UK accent, but I think there is more. I know there's more to it than just the accent. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker B: There's always more to it than the accent. Uh, okay, so my parents are South African. Uh, my father is descended from Scottish Highlanders and my mother from the Zulu people. Highlanders, yes, from Scotland.

Speaker A: Wow. You know, it's my. It's my favorite topic. I'm so. I'm sorry.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: The movie and stuff, you know, and.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the McLarens are originally Highlanders. So anyway, so his grandfather went to South Africa, and so his mother was. Grew up there and he was born there. So they met and they got together there. Obviously they couldn't marry because this is during apartheid, it was illegal for a black woman and a white man to be together. So that's how I ended up being born in England because they left and they Went to the UK and they actually sought asylum there. Born in the uk, then lived there for a few years. Then we went to Ethiopia, where my father was teaching at the university. And then we came to Zimbabwe, which is where I am now. And this is where I grew up. Beautiful. So I grew up in Zimbabwe, did all my schooling here up to 18. And, um, my, my time here, especially in high school, was a period of enormous growth for me. Uh, in terms of my, my presence, I want to say, because I was a public speaker, I was an actress. You know, I was that, that girl. And, um, I wasn't Muslim at this time. I wasn't any religion. Um, but I developed a lot of confidence because of my school experiences. Alhamdulillah. I became the head girl at the end of the final year. And, you know, it was, it was a glorious time. Uh, fast forward. I went to the UK for university, and that's when I found out about Islam. And I ended up accepting Islam after going to a music festival in Egypt. That's another story for another day.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But, uh, what's interesting, I think, is I became Muslim. Uh, I started wearing the hijab. Etc, I got married, and after marriage I decided to wear the niqab, which is the face veil you see me wearing now. And, um, everybody thought it was over for me because the stereotype is, you know, bubbly Western girl becomes Muslim, gets married and we never see her again. And, um, you know, I know that my father in particular mourned my potential because he thought that I was born to be a star. And now that I've become Muslim, well, that's the end of that. And I think I also believed that for a while. I just thought, you know, I'm not interested in any of that. Um, I've got my husband, I've got my baby, I've got my life, and I'm living that life. I don't really care about anything else. But when this situation, uh, that I described about the books in the library became something that was on my mind, it's like I refound that confidence. I had to find that confidence again to say, I'm not just going to accept this situation. I want to do something about this. I want to be part of the change that I want to see. And, um, I want to do it authentically. I want to do it as myself. And so as a result of that, I was the first in a lot of things because I was the first, you know, this one in niqab and children's author and On TV and on this, on that. Because of course I went on to write From My Sister's Lips, which was my memoir about, uh, coming to Islam and everything like that. Um, but I think the point is this. Through all of those coaching programs, I was almost always the only niqabi in the room. Okay, um, only doing this, doing that, whatever the case may be, right? And what I want to say to people, and I'm sure if your audience is CEOs, etc. They don't really need to hear this. But there may be somebody who does need to hear this. What you may perceive as your weakness can sometimes be your ultimate strength. And the ultimate strength that I have found to, to, to, to, to carry me through these years of authorship and entrepreneurship and sort of game changing and trailbl is to own who you are. To own it fully and to not make apologies for it. Because as I said, that thing that people may think, oh, you know, you're disadvantaged because of abcd, if you don't perceive it as a disadvantage, if you own it and if you embody the best of what that is, you will find that it's actually an advantage. It's actually something that makes you stand out. It's actually something that gives you a unique perspective, a unique voice, a unique way of making, making an impact. And that's what I tell all my clients. Every one of us has something unique that is valuable to people out there. Now it could be valuable to 10 people, to 100, a thousand, a million, we don't know. But for sure there are people out there who want, need to hear what you have to say. You know, and that's obviously why they come and they write their books with us, because we help them to embody that, to own who they are and own the value of what they have to share. Once you do that, once you win the battle of in the mind, everything else is just step one, step two, step three, step four. But it's the battle in the mind. It's believing that you have something to offer, that you have something worthy to say that you are worth listening to. That's the first and most important battle. Once you win that, it's smooth sailing. After that, lots of work. But smooth sailing.

Speaker A: No, that's, that's amazing. That's amazing. Um, and how you describe it as well, because when you, I'm sure you didn't wake up and say, I want to be an author, you know, so, um, just, just because you know of the, of this, of what you just were saying. So how do you, how do you become that author? I mean, do you, like, um, you know, you had, you had your business before, uh, and suddenly you wake up and say, I want to be an author. Or how does it come. I mean, I know about the story that you, that you didn't find the books and everything, but, you know, that you, that you yourself, like, want write this children book or, or, or this guidance book. How do you. How did, how did it come to that?

Speaker B: Again? It's, it's, it's literally believing I could write something, I could do that, I could do something better than that. You know, if you've read a book before, I don't know how, how much your audience are into, especially children's books, but I know I've read a children's book and be like, I could have done this or I could have written this. So for me personally, I would say, you know, I did, I did put in the work beforehand because I wrote a lot of terrible stories initially. I have a whole notebook full of them, uh, where I was just trying to find my voice, just trying to find my style, uh, trying to find my message in a way. And so a lot of really, really poor stories written. And then once I started to find my style and get into my groove, I started to write things that I really liked. And I was like, no, this, this, this is m. This could be something. And then those are the pieces that I ended up sending out. Now this is 2002, 2001. Things don't necessarily work like that nowadays, but I was very fortunate to. In that first round of sending to publishers, one publisher got back to me and said, we love it and we want to do it. And everyone has a different, uh, version of this story. But obviously from. Once a publisher says, we want to publish your book, well, you're going to. Right. And it's, it's on topic. Um, but nowadays, um, we don't really have to wait for publishers to gatekeep. Right. And most of my clients end up self publishing their children's books. Right. And it really is Amazon.

Speaker A: You know, there, There's Amazon.

Speaker B: It's a. Yeah, exactly. There's many services now. Um, and really for all of them, they come in really not sure. Could I be an author? Because you mentioned something earlier, um, about. About the perception that we have. I think what I find with my clients, a lot of them is that they believe that writing a book is for other people, for people who have master's degrees. Exactly. You know, tons of money for people who uh, you know, did creative writing retreats in Spain, whatever the case may be, they just don't think it's for people like them. So a lot of the work that we do when we do our workshops and our 5 day challenges, etc is working on that. Again, belief. Being able to see what's possible, being able to see that it's not for other people, it's for whoever wants it, it's for whoever has the belief. I mean, we've all read bad books before and trust me, Amazon's full of them. Okay, Amazon is full of, um, overconfident people who wrote a really bad book and put it on kdp. Right? We don't want to be those people. But the point is, once you believe you have something to say, and I believe that m, almost everyone who's listening to this podcast has something to say, whether it's in business or in life or in personal development or food, whatever the case may be, I believe everyone has something to say. Once you embody that, you make a decision. And the decision has to be that what I have to share is valuable. It's part of the impact that I want to have in the world and it's part of the legacy that I want to leave behind. And as such, this is a non negotiable, it's not a wish list thing, it's not a nice to have, it's not a hobby, It's a non negotiable. And the reason I say, especially people who are in entrepreneurship, um, in NGOs, in companies where they're doing things differently, what I always say to them is there will never be a clearer and purer way of sharing who you are and what you stand for than in a book. Never. It doesn't matter how many employee trainings you do. It doesn't matter how many YouTube videos you shoot, how many shorts you create, how many TikToks TikToks you make, how many blogs you write, even none of those will be the distillation of who you are, your essence, your message, your methodology, whatever it is that you have to share, none of them will do it justice. Better than a book. So I actually think that everybody who has managed to achieve something extraordinary, uh, even achieving something ordinary that many, many people want to achieve, you owe it to yourself and to this win to document it, put it in a book.

Speaker A: Definitely I agree.

Speaker B: Because we don't know how many people out there are scratching their heads right now saying, how, how can I do this? How can I do that?

Speaker A: And you almost Everyone. Almost everyone.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. So, uh, with all of these book things, I mean, what you're writing to being award winning author, you've done, you have achieved a lot in these, in, in very short time frame. What do you think the next five years will give?

Speaker B: I love this question. I would like to be, I would like our company to be the catalyst behind a thousand books out there. Um, and I work primarily with Muslim women. Um, that's just my niche. Um, and I love serving that niche because these are women who are driven by heart and driven with intention. And I love to work with women like that. I mean, right now I'm reading, uh, I think on Monday I had a client who created a journal, uh, for women who are in polygamy. So I read that and edited that, sent it off to her. The next day I had a client who had finished her book, so she sent it in for editorial critique. One, uh, is writing about having escaped the war in Sudan. So that's a memoir that she's written. Uh, and so, and all of these amazing books are coming through. The other one is talking about how, um, Islam or faith in general can be a catalyst for human growth and potential. So I read that and gave her her critique.

Speaker A: So you're reading a lot.

Speaker B: I am reading a lot these days because they're finishing, you see, which is wonderful to see. They are completing their drafts and that is a huge deal because out of all the people who want to write, the statistic is that only 3% will finish. That's huge. So we've got more than 3% of our people coming back and saying, I, uh, finished my draft, I want to get your feedback. I'm over the moon. But my point is, of those types of women, over a thousand, and I want us to be behind them, supporting them, giving them what they need, whether it's accountability, information, training, networking opportunities. I would just like to be that behind the scenes guru behind all of these, you know, authors that you see popping up here, popping up there, winning awards, writing a new series, you know, their book being made into a film, you know, their book, you know, topping the bestseller list. I'd like to be us, uh, to be behind the scenes and be able to say, yeah, that's one of ours, that's one of ours, that's one of ours. And inshallah, just hope that all of that, all those blessings, uh, come for us and that we're able to make a real difference in the industry.

Speaker A: I mean, from what I see, you are you are on the way there. You know, it's uh, how you, how you move things, uh, what is going on and uh, you know, your company, everything. You are on the, on the right way, um, to go there. I, um, have one last question. Your, Your um, book, your favorite book, for example. Can you, can you give us a

Speaker B: favorite maybe children book of my own or of any book out there?

Speaker A: Uh, uh, out there. Anyone? Anything out there.

Speaker B: I'll tell you which one it is. Most people probably haven't heard of it, but it's called the Silver Swan and it is by Michael Moore, who is one of my favorite children's authors. And it's illustrated by Christian Birmingham. And it is just one of the most poignant stories, children's stories that I've ever read. It is so heartwarming and heart wrenching and the illustrations are just like, just. I can't. It's not gorgeous. Gorgeous is not the word. They're so special. So that is actually my favorite children book and I can read that one again and again. Again.

Speaker A: Okay, now you can go Google it

Speaker B: and see what I'm talking about.

Speaker A: Yeah, I will, I will definitely. Because you know, I'll be honest, I don't know it. You know, I don't know it. I, I obviously I know a lot of children books because my, my kids, they read a lot and I'm, I'm, I'm keep buying for them and uh, you know, what is, what is more beautiful than buying books? You know, the good books for them so they can read and if they like to read. You cannot say no to a kid who wants to read. You know, it's not like they want, it's not, they want to have their screen time. You know, it's, ah, it's, it's completely different. So, so yeah, that's why I'm asking you actually. And as well because you know, you, you, you out there, you, you read a lot, you use, you, you, um, you've wrote yourself. So, um, your advice from you is, is very valuable. Thank you so much.

Speaker B: Well, I will give you my top 10 if you like and you can put them in the show notes because there are so many out there. That one is my personal favorite. But there are so many that are just amazing.

Speaker A: Okay, great, great, great. So Naima, where can anyone who's interested, um, in working with you maybe, or to have questions because I know in the audience, uh, at least There is a.2,3 who already wrote a book.

Speaker B: Wonderful.

Speaker A: Um, and there is definitely, I don't know, maybe 60, 70% who want to write a book. So just let me know. How can anyone get in contact?

Speaker B: Well, I'm on LinkedIn. Naima. Uh B. Robert I'm also on instagram. Instagram @lionlaby. Robert our new website will be launching at the end of this month which is Muslim author.com and that's got all our clients stories and videos and beautiful books that we've published as well as more information about how we work. Um, but Sending me a DM sounds good. Sending me a message on LinkedIn. Uh, I'd love to hear from everybody and just hear what they took from the podcast and get to know them and their story.

Speaker A: Great, thank you so much. It's uh, it was a pleasure talking to you and uh, really it's, it's great information and I wish you much, much success inshallah with your company, um, that you make it to the hundred books and even more. Thank you so much Naima.

Speaker B: Thank you very. Much.