81: Robert Shepard (GG+A) on Philanthropy

Dave Ikenberry 0:13 Welcome to Dean's Council, a podcast aimed at supporting university leaders holding one of the more critical jobs on a university campus. Your panelists, Ken Kring, Jim Ellis and davinberry, engage in conversation with highly accomplished deans and other academic leaders regarding the ever complex array of challenges that Deans face in one of the loneliest and most unique jobs in the academy, as the chief academic officer of a college or school, the span of responsibilities a dean must carry out can be breathtaking.

Increasingly, though, it seems that philanthropy is perhaps first among equals when it comes to the various duties a dean must excel at. Yet for some new deans, taking on philanthropy and exceeding at it is not perceived as an appealing opportunity, but rather as a daunting, if not intimidating, challenge. This is understandable to some degree for most of us have had little to no exposure to fundraising prior to assuming a deanship in today's podcast, we're privileged to hear from Robert Shepherd.

Bob is a true veteran in philanthropic circles with a storied career spanning roughly 40 years, much of that running Duke University's philanthropic efforts today. Bob is a consultant with grinsbach clear and Associates now a part of Huron Consulting and continues to help shape philanthropic efforts at a variety of universities. In this episode, we take a deep dive into this area of philanthropy and glean some incredibly helpful observations and advice from the true pro in the field.

As always, we hope you enjoy and learn from hearing this episode of Dean's Council. Welcome Bob. It's great to have you on the show today. Bob Shepard 1:59 Thank you.

It's very good to be here. Dave Ikenberry 2:02 Bob, we have new deans who are just starting their jobs, and of course, we have a lot of our listeners are administrators who are contemplating being a dean. And of course, philanthropy is a huge part of what drives a business school Dean's responsibilities, in some cases, that may be the number one dimension amongst all dimensions upon which a dean might be evaluated. And as such, some Deans come to the job with a little bit of trepidation.

You know, no Dean was ever schooled in philanthropy. They they came from accounting or finance or marketing. They've never taught a class on philanthropy. They've never, probably even reflected on it.

And so they're they may have trepidation. What advice do you have for the hesitant would be Dean on this dimension. Bob Shepard 3:00 Well, I'll say a few things. One is such a dean is not alone.

Almost every dean I have worked with, not only business school deans, but deans of other colleges, liberal arts or whatever, you know, it's perhaps a little curious thing in the academy that either faculty members, or in the business school case, person with a background in finance or consulting is all of a sudden placed into a position where they're expected to do fundraising, and they've had very little, if any, experience really doing it. So almost every dean I've ever worked with has either been honest enough to say they have some trepidation and they really do take sort of an interest in it.

They know it's a responsibility, but they haven't had a lot of direct a direct experience. And so I think the first thing that hopefully will happen is that they would have a a pretty seasoned development officer, whether it's a vice president or director of development, whatever the title might be, who can really lead them through a number of steps that are almost universal in terms of the basic elements of relationship, building, of cultivation. And then I think what many deans are afraid of is the actual ask.

How do I actually put that ask on the table in a way that's compelling, etc, and and that is, to a significant degree, a matter of practice, and deans do it differently, and deans team with others, either other board members, they have other faculty members, they have or hopefully development people. They have to form a bit of a cadence to form a sense of who says what when I personally have worked with deans who do are not comfortable. We're not comfortable with. A direct ask, they told the story, they created the narrative, and the development person actually followed then with the specific ask of an amount, etc, etc.

But what I think most Deans find out is that the interplay, since they're asking for something that's a priority for the dean, and hopefully is something that the Dean feels passionate about. It actually becomes quite an enjoyable conversation. I find that by the time you get to that stage, anyone who is truly antagonistic will have self selected out and and even though the answer may not be Yes, or may not be Yes, immediately, the conversation is actually a very positive one in most cases.

And so what happens after a while is that Deans become more and more comfortable, and they actually kind of like it. And I guess, let me just say this also, I've also had the experience where Deans come into a situation where, let's for example, all of a sudden they find themselves on a yacht that someone has invited them to, and they're and you could tell they're like a fish out of water. I mean, they're just so uncomfortable with that kind of wealth and and I, I've said to many of them, look these.

These people are people. They're here because they fundamentally believe in your school, your college, your university, and again, to repeat myself, over time, the deans will find more and more a greater comfort level in the actual act of solicitation. So you know, there are look as you well. Know, there are seminars you can attend.

We can bring in outside experts and all of that, and sales and and all of that. But the reality is, have a solid development person who you have good chemistry with, who you trust and who knows the donor, the donor pool, and work from there. And again, I think I have seen many deans, including many business school deans, turn from being very apprehensive to wanting to spend more and more and more time doing fundraising. Jim Ellis 7:18 So one of the one of the things that was taught to me very early on in my deanship from a senior VP of advancement for the university.

He called me and he said, I just want you to know one thing, fundraising is all about one word, and that's patience. Bob Shepard 7:37 How do you react to that? Completely agree with it. This is a long time process, and you know, very few donors are going to make snap decisions, because it's a combination of their analysis, their view of the program, whether their gift is going to actually fulfill what the Dean puts out there as the ultimate objective, et cetera, et cetera.

It's also relationship building. And so I think as a dean, that person is looking at you and wondering and asking questions about leadership, about longevity, all of those questions that require a lot of patience, because the asks that you're usually going to be making require some careful consideration, and it's usually not the quick pulling of a trigger in terms of a decision. Totally agree with that. And if I may, add one other thing to that patience, it could require patience beyond your tenure, your tenure as a dean and and so my view is every dean that is really excels at this recognizes that it's usually an alum, not always an alum, but that person is going to have a relationship that extends beyond their particular tenure, and that donor is very, very aware that as much as they're looking for those leadership qualities in you, they're also thinking long term, again, a requirement for patients.

Dave Ikenberry 9:10 Yes, Bob, a moment ago, you mentioned that a good Dean should rely on their development officer to support them. How do I know if I've got a good one again, if I'm coming to this job cold, on the philanthropic front, how do I how do what advice would you give on whether I've got a good one? You know, what signals, what signs if I need to hire a good one? What are some of the key attributes, key questions I should be asking?

Bob Shepard 9:40 So I think the first thing would be, presumably, that person has been around a while anyway, at your particular school or college, and I would ask around, that is to say, there's a certain level of respect and a certain level of knowledge of given people's. Ability, a given person's ability, and and those things you know, may not be quite as visible at first, but they become apparent over a little bit of time. And it's important that, as a new I would think, as a new dean, that you would have the perspective of those around, around the university, around whatever.

Secondly, you know, it's really interesting. Some development officers are more oriented to what I would call direct solicitation than others. Some are more oriented to management. I think it's not only chemistry, although that's a part of it, but it's also sort of an analysis or a thought of how you and your skill set relate to the particular skill set of your development person.

I've seen deans and development officers who they're simpatico in so many ways, but I've seen others that that aren't and and their changes may have to be made again relative to what the Dean brings to the table in terms of those cultivation and solicitation relationships and what the development officer brings you know, I think those things just take some time to work out, right? Jim Ellis 11:23 So changing gears for just a second. Let's talk about organization, and Dave and I had operated in two different spheres, because he was at a public and I was at a private.

Public universities have foundations running side by side of the university, and privates have their own. I have my own development department with 20 some development officers. Is one better than the other is, how do they? How do you take advantage of the strengths and weaknesses of one or the other of those two and and, you know, how can you make it different?

Because you can't really change the organization within the university, but you've got to be able to take advantage of something there to make to give you the advantage with the donor base. Bob Shepard 12:08 Yeah, so very good question. I don't think one is better than the other. I actually think it's truly the organizational model.

And then how? How that organizational model as it were, plays and succeeds with a variety of personalities and positions. The the privates have, as it were, maybe a a slight advantage, but in terms of less complexity of organization, but, but having worked in a number of privates that I can tell you what looks like, it's relatively simple. Jim Ellis 12:48 Got it Bob Shepard 12:49 not at all and and so I won't mention specific universities, some I've worked with, some I have not, but I know them well.

You know this whole decentralized, centralized and the whole matrix structure is very complicated and very different in every single university, and that has to be worked through. You have to sort of judge the strengths and weaknesses and and then work within that organizational structure is pretty tough to make, in my view, to make significant organizational pivots. So I but I've seen people work very effectively to make some changes that they had, even if they're sort of more, little more on the margins than you might think.

Dave Ikenberry 13:35 So talking about large, complex organizations, one of the things that can happen in philanthropy is the Dean identifies a potential target, and unbeknownst to him or her, that target is a very well known target with a rich relationship with the university and maybe The Chancellor or the President actually has different aspirations than the the dean. Can you talk a little bit about the how does one get the political dance here, correct? And are there? You know?

How should a dean manage this, other than being aware of it? Bob Shepard 14:21 So you've just asked a $64,000 question. Dave Ikenberry 14:26 I speak, I speak from experience, Bob Shepard 14:31 this indeed is the key question, and it's simply called, as you well know, Prospect Management. I won't mention the university, but there was a university in my past where I was brought on board, and a trustee pulled me, pulled me aside, and he said, Do you know why you were hired?

And I said, no, why. And he said, because x University, his university, holds the record for simultaneously. Citations of a single prospect, and you are here to fix it. Nice.

Nice, nice to say. But look some basics. Every university, multiple colleges, multiple schools, should have a prospect management policy. I know a number of universities where that policy runs, 2530, pages long.

I find that necessary but not sufficient. And I think every university, every college, should have a one page protocol document. And how do you go about assigning prospects for cultivation solicitation. And then how do you go about actually making an approach to solicit that has to be laid out as clearly as it can be with a primary manager, and when steps are taken to cultivate they have to be clear, most universities say there's there are multiple relationships.

The Business School has an interest. The Athletics Department has an interest. The Arts and Sciences has an interest. Lots of people have interest.

The more money you have, more people seem to have an interest in you, right? How is that all managed, where you can allow some relationships to develop? But essentially, and this is what I would say, precludes solicitation in certain cases, with the exception of the one or two members that are allowed to be soliciting given a timetable for a specific solicitation, but the rest cannot solicit if that window has been closed, it's a temporary closure. Otherwise, you will get to a state of simultaneous solicitations of a single prospect, and they will go crazy, and they will let you know about it.

So there's no there's no one answer. I think I will just tell you from personal experience, because I was trying to manage this as a vice president, you have the protocols, you have the policies. And when people sort of, shall we say, don't read the fine print and you find out something has happened, I take him into my office, and I try to slap the wrist, and I try to do things, even if I have no formal authority, I do have influence, because I report directly to the president of the university and work with the Board of Trustees, but but there's no simple way as there's got to be As much transparency to the process and to the protocols as possible.

And again, if you can fully answer that question, would you please write me an article that I'd be happy to publish? Jim Ellis 17:54 I think the hardest part that I ran into was the conflict between athletics and the academic unit because they have tickets to hold over the head of the donor, whereas I didn't have a whole lot to hold over the head of the donor in terms of, you know, I'm kind of coming in there with open hands saying, you know, help me. And they're coming in with, hey, I'll give you four tickets if you do this, or I'll give you a suite or whatever.

You know, I never worried about the conflict with another academic unit, but I sure as hell worried about the conflict with the athletic department. Bob Shepard 18:29 I fully understand it varies, you know, from place to place. Yeah, it's always, it's, you know, at a university, by definition, it's going to happen and and so, you know, there's also the saying is ultimately the donor centric policy. That is to say, the donor rules.

The most challenging times for me, and thankfully there are very, very few, was when the donor seemed to say different things to different people, and then you're really in a buy. But that doesn't happen very often. That's why I like the direct approach. But it's, it's one of the key issues around all universities.

And you know, you just have to sort of make those, make those policies and go forward. Dave Ikenberry 19:15 Bob, I was wondering if you could comment a little bit more about kind of some do's and some don'ts. We've already talked about, some do's and some don'ts. But having you know, with that as pretext, what if I want to be effective at philanthropy, if I want to make that, if I want to be good at it, what are kind of two or three primary things I ought to be engaged with thinking about and if there's a few things I should not be doing, what are those?

Bob Shepard 19:46 So a couple of things, there's no doubt that the first thing you should be doing is understanding the broad scope of philanthropy and its role at your particular college or school. Because it includes, again, to an earlier point about being patient, it includes a long point of view around building donors, cultivating them, having them get to the point where they have significant wealth. I mean, the focus is, as it should be, on those people who can give you the 95% from the 5% of the dollars, the 95% dollars, right?

So that's natural, but there's a, there's a process involved that can't be lost sight of, which includes everything from the, you know, the recent graduate who gives you $150 so, so the understanding of what those component parts play in the overall growth and and success of a program is point number one. I think point number two. Learn as much as you can about how major philanthropists think about making and I don't and I don't care if you define a large gift as 100,000 or a million, or 20 million or 100 million, but there's a certain look, if I can say it that way, that most donors have before, before giving that some Deans understand, and some Deans just don't, or it takes a While.

And let me give you another example. You know, development people, we often ask a dean, because sometimes the donors are thinking, so what would you do with 20 million, right? And and the number of times the Dean has said to me, Well, we didn't dove 10 shares or something like that. And my response was, how uncreative is that?

Right? So, so not that it has to be transformational, but how do you think that get inside the mind of a donor who's making what is in their mind a pretty significant gift, and and how that can have impact. And if it's a 25, or $50 million gift, it's not likely that the donor is going to say, Oh, great. Let's give, you know, let me give you five, 610, professorships.

I don't know how that's going to change the landscape at all. So that's that's another thing. And then to get to get comfortable with the ask and the narrative that's required and and it is a narrative, and it's because people want to know what your vision is, what your what your sense of, of where you're going to take the place. Now that leads to, in my mind, a don't, and this is a could be a little bit tricky.

Every Dean understandably wants to put his or her imprint on a particular college, a particular school, a business school, and to do that, it's going to require certain priorities expressed and a certain direction. And that's indeed, in many ways, what donors are looking for. It's also the case that a don't, in my mind, would be that your direction for the business school and shouldn't pivot 180 degrees from the recent, most recent deed, because the donor, and I've had this happen a couple of times with institutions I'm working with where a donor says to me, you know, I'll make this up.

This Dean wants to make this the best global business school in the world. The prior Dean wanted to make it the best research institution for finance, or something, you know, something like that. And the donors are saying they understand this, right? And again, they have a real, truly long term.

So as you fashion your own particular direction and priorities, I think it's important that you don't pivot too far away, that's right, from the longer term trajectory. Yeah, but another part of what Dave Ikenberry 24:01 you're saying is, and what I found to be true is, and you touched on it. But just to kind of push it a little bit, is these donors are looking to invest in your vision. They need to hear a vision, yep.

And then they need to figure out where they can latch on to that vision, wherever that latch point is, which is going to differ, of course, for different donors, but, but, and that's where your enthusiasm and your passion really need to shine through. Bob Shepard 24:32 I couldn't agree more, and that's it. And, and my, my last point was just that you in doing that you want to make sure you're not sending a message. Oh, yeah, but, but fundamentally, that donor wants to know your vision, yeah, and how they can, how they can, literally, as you said, latch onto it without a doubt the most, the most important thing.

Because, again, if it's a matter, look, every dean I've ever worked with wants the bread. Needs the bread and butter. You need professor. You need student scholarships, you need those things.

But there's also something beyond that that the donors are looking for in terms of your particular vision for the place. Jim Ellis 25:10 Yeah, yeah. Some people donate to put their name on something. Some people donate just to give you general operating monies.

The hardest one that I found to raise are the hardest two, because I couldn't properly explain it, and I wish somebody had told me that when I first started my job. Is why a chair? What's the chair? Where's the chair?

I want to see what the chair looks like. That was number that was number one, and number two was the center. So where's the center? Then they go, Well, it's, it's in the professor's head.

No, wait, no, I'm looking for a physical center. And this was me trying to figure it out when I first started. I mean, finally I got there, and particularly when I could explain that a chair professorship is really the pinnacle of success in the academic world for an academic but it was hard because nobody explained Bob Shepard 26:10 that to me. Yeah, no, no, I totally agree, and there ought to be a little tutorial on explaining the importance of professorships in terms of what they mean to professor, how the money does or doesn't get allocated in certain ways, the prestige of it, allowing you for retention and recruitment purposes, etc, etc, those things sometimes aren't as clear.

The other thing is people, people want to know, like a center or an institute, okay, but how's money going to be actually? I mean, a little bit more. Let me see a budget please. And sometimes that isn't done adequately either.

Jim Ellis 26:53 I think the easiest phrase, I always found was scholarship. Student. Scholarship was always the easiest race. Yeah.

Do you agree with that? Bob Shepard 27:00 Yeah, people want to. They want to help other people. Yeah, they want to help other people.

And they particularly love helping students. Helping faculty is good, but helping students is just way better. On the list, top of the list, yeah, absolutely. Dave Ikenberry 27:18 I'll ask both of you this last question, but if you had one, just small nugget of advice, Bob and Jim and they may be all off for mine as well.

But what would that pearl of inspiration or advice be to a dean in the philanthropic area that we haven't already touched on? Jim Ellis 27:39 I'll give you mine. I'll give you mine first. Okay, since Bob way more experienced than I am, but I just know that my predecessor in the job was calling on the guy who had been the number one donor to the school, who happened to be a really good friend of mine, and halfway through salad at dinner that night, he said, I need 10 million bucks.

And my pal called me that night as soon as he got home, and he said, do me a favor and teach the Dean what foreplay is. And and I think the sensitivity of an individual to when it's appropriate to ask, you'll know when it's appropriate to ask. You'll get the feeling. But you, I think you've just got to tell the story.

You gotta, as our president sample, used to tell us tell the story until you're so tired of it that you just don't want to tell it again, but know full well that everybody listening to it wants to hear it again and again and again. And I think that it's just so important to not rush this process, but rather make sure they understand it before they they really say they want to give you the money for it. Bob Shepard 29:02 So I totally agree with that, and I would just add, and you sort of mentioned this, so that I think there would be two words I would use, and one, one would be, listen.

Yes, I've met a lot of deans who get pretty good about telling the story, and they don't listen or look for a reaction from from the person sitting across the table. And and you can learn a lot through that. And, and you need to listen to how the people respond, in some cases, or how they don't respond, to see to think about next steps, and ultimately, closing, closing the gift. And I think the other thing I would say to a dean is it takes a lot more time than you think it's going to take.

You mentioned patience but, but it's, it's more the whole process is a commitment of time. And you know, we fundraisers like to throw out the Dean should spend 30% 140% and all the deans go, Bob, there's no way I can spend that kind of time on fundraising. And I said I know that, that you can't spend that much time on funding, but I'm telling you, it's going to take time and commitment on your part. It's not something you can sort of pick up the phone once a week and talk to somebody and and get the kind of gifts that you you hope to get.

Dave Ikenberry 30:21 Well, I'll share my tidbit, and you can reflect on it, Bob, but I'll just share two quick ideas. One is, you know, with respect to the nervousness that some of us have when we go into these, particularly these upper level conversations, I think one thing you we need people to remember is a lot of these people, as you said earlier, they know they're going to get the call, they know they're going to get the ask. But moreover, many of them actually want to give.

That's that's actually part of their utility function, is they, they derive joy in giving, and so don't be so fearful as kind of item a item B is, is, you know, the you know the faculty would say, you know, are you getting ready to go out and shake the money tree today? And I'm like, Well, I'm not sure that's the right way to think about it, but I would share with them that there really are very few donors left in society today, there are a handful, and I kind of attribute them to the World War Two generation where they were or, you know, they're just truly grateful for what the university gave them.

And for example, you see this in the medical complex, where you have the grateful donor, but in a business school, we typically don't have donors. I say we have investors, and we have lots of investors. They are they're looking to see return on investment, and some of that return on investment is shared through your passion and your and and and your dedication, but it's a lot of it. I'll never forget a conversation I had.

You know, I went to New York to close on a on a gift. You know, the only reason I was going was to close this gift at a dinner. It was just me and the donor, and sat down to have a great conversation, and the very first words that came out of his mouth were, I'm sorry. I'm glad you came here for dinner, but I'm not going to give you a nickel, and I'm so sorry.

And it was like, what's the deal? He goes at the end of the day, my wife and I thought we'd have a bigger impact on K through 12, and so I'm just so sorry. And it was like the light bulb went off. It's just like, this is an ROI thing, and it's always been an ROI thing.

And I don't know what your perspective on that is or not. Bob Shepard 32:52 No, I think you're right it. And, you know, look, everyone is so different in how they both define the ROI there. Thankfully, there are some people around who still are just sort of grateful, and I want to give back to the institution, but increasingly, particularly as the gifts get larger and larger.

You know what? This is an investment, and I expect a return, and I expect some very specific metrics around how that return will play out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I think we just have to recognize that. I think the last thing to share your story this is again, going back to our earlier points that we're making about just the process here and how long it takes, and the relationship.

And I'll never forget, during the economic downturn of Oh 809, I called a big donor in San Francisco, and I said, I'm going to be in town. Can we have dinner? He said, Bob, yes, we can have dinner, and Bob, we are only having dinner. But you know what?

I couldn't the dinner because I knew that when things turned around, Yeah, indeed, a nice gift came when things turned around right? Yeah, well, Rob, Dave Ikenberry 34:03 it's been a it's been a real pleasure to have you today. Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom and perspective and and we wish you the best in your current endeavors. Bob Shepard 34:14 Thank you.

I enjoyed it very much, and I appreciate the opportunity you Dave Ikenberry 34:26 Jim, what was your take on that conversation? Jim Ellis 34:29 Well, Bob has years of experience in the philanthropic world, in the university advanced world, and the pearls of wisdom that he shared with us in the last 25 minutes were just exceptional. And I wish in many cases I'd heard those when I started my career, it would have helped me a lot. But he just seems to be a guy that can make you feel very comfortable in the job of raising money.

And just to listen to his words of wisdom was really outstanding. And I hope. Hope that our listeners take it to heart, because he's just, he's talking right from the heart, really, right from the Bible of fundraising. Dave Ikenberry 35:08 Yeah, yeah.

I concur. I It was kind of fun listening to his advice and kind of reminiscing on my own experiences, both yeah and for the bad and but I also really appreciated him putting our new deans who have yet to experience this aspect of their job much it, it can be daunting, but at the end of the day, it can be remarkably rewarding. I can remember towards the end of my time, I got to the point where I actually I relished my time on the road. It was so it was such a positive part of my deanship.

You know, I used to say I'll do this 80% of the time if I can just run the internals 20% of the time, which, of course, was never true. But it's just you meet the greatest people that you otherwise would never meet. And yeah, you do, and you you also get inspired by by new things you can do as well. So it was great to to to listen to Bob and and I'm sure he provides a lot of wisdom with the organizations he supports in his current consulting roles.

Jim Ellis 36:18 Yeah, that was great. Very good. Well done. Dave Ikenberry 36:21 Thank you for listening to this episode of Dean's Council.

This show is supported in part by Korn Ferry leaders in executive search. Dean's Council was produced in Boulder, Colorado by Joel Davis of analog digital arts for a catalog of previous shows. Please visit our website, at Dean's council.com, if you have any feedback for us, please let us know by sending an email to feedback at Dean's council.

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