CS Ops: The innovative frontier of customer success with Roger Mendez

Speaker A: Hi everyone. Welcome back to the CS School Podcast brought to you by Customer Success Collective. Now this is the podcast where we speak with CS professionals from all over the world, learning about the hottest topics in customer success and really try to strip them back to basics and discover how best we can apply these strategies. Now today on the podcast, I'm delighted to be joined by Roger Mendez, who works at Cisco as the global leader of strategic programs and customer success and acceleration. Roger, how are you doing?

Speaker B: Uh, doing fantastic. Really happy to be on today.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for taking the time to, uh, speak with me today. Really excited about this episode because we're talking about customer success operations, csops. Um, this is really important topic. I can't believe we actually have got to this stage. I think we're on about 30 episodes of the CS Cool podcast. We've never spoken about CSOps. Thank you for joining me and for rectifying this wrong. Um, what's really interesting about this uh, episode is you're going to be speaking at, ah, the Customer Success Festival, which is in San Francisco in September. And this, this episode's a kind of like a taster of all the good stuff to come. Right? So, um, really excited for your session, uh, in September. But to kick things off, um, for the purpose of this episode, would you mind explaining to our listeners, um, a little bit about, um, how you got into customer success, um, and kind of, I guess, your experience to date and what your role looks like, looks like at Cisco? I'm really intrigued to know.

Speaker B: Yeah, I would be happy to and really excited for this session in San Francisco. Um, can't wait. We did a session last year, it was fantastic and there's a lot of people asking about CxOps and the opportunities around it. So I'd love to talk a little bit more, as you mentioned, about my background and how I got into customer success in 6 ops originally. So, um, I'm actually originally from San Jose, California. I grew up about two minutes away from the Cisco campus. Um, but I actually grew up, grew up and spent my life in PR and in social media marketing and focusing on building a brand for companies when it came to a social online presence. And so that was something that I was really passionate about just because we would have customers proactively reach out to us on our social media channels to talk to a little bit about like, hey, I want to express, you know, this excitement around the company or this desire. And so what really started was I really enjoyed being an advocate for the customer. And so, um, I had a Friend reach out to me that ah, was at a company that said, hey, I'm starting a customer success success practice and program. And I'm like, I've never heard of customer success. What does that really mean? Um, I ended up moving over to this company, starting a customer success program and then um, within my time there got reached out to by Cisco, um, letting me know that they were starting their first customer success program. So we were starting customer success on the sales side. Um, they were focusing more on a Land, Adopt, Expand, Renew motion which we can talk a little bit more about. So I started more on the sales side. Um, and then we actually over the last next couple years we transitioned into more of a customer experience organization where we moved from the sales side of the organization. We uh, combine our customer success team with our services team and we created customer experience which was all around the focus of the customer. So instead of focusing on just Land, Adopt, Expand, Renew, we really focused on um, a racetrack methodology that we'll talk more about. But it was more focused on adoption around the customer. Um, so I was in a field facing role. I focused more on working with some of our top customers to, to really gain insight on like what was relevant to them from a customer success outcomes perspective. We hear this all the time around customer driven outcomes. What does that really mean? So I spent a lot of time really identifying that with our customers. Um, and then I got an opportunity after being there for a few years to come over to our customer success operations side. And so I was brand new to CSOPs, uh, really focused on a business operations standpoint. Um, then focus on building programs and then really now focus on our strategic initiatives that we have at Cisco, which are some of our top initiatives. Um, then I've been doing that over the last few years, so really excited about that.

Speaker A: Oh, that sounds so varied. I love, yeah, I love it sounds a bit like a full circle moment. How you actually lived around the corner from Cisco and then now you're.

Speaker B: Oh yeah, so exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah, honestly I'm really, really, really excited to talk about this um, at csops because I think it must look so different in so many different organizations. Um, and I guess it's a bit like cs how it's, there's so many varied interpretations and I guess ops. I guess ops really it depends on what the company needs, what stage you're at. Um, so just for the purpose of this, you know, since we're talking about it, I thought let's, let's, let's start from the scratch. What would you Say, what would you say customer success operations is and um, how do you think it differs from a traditional CS role?

Speaker B: Yeah, great question. I would say um, there's a couple thoughts that come to my mind. I'd say the first thing it's reinventing the customer experience. So that's what csops really does is um, it gives you um, foundational pillars within your organization to identify how do we really rise to our customer expectations to make sure that the customer is having not only a seamless experience with us, but also how are we fast tracking them towards a frictionless renewal with us. Um, and so csops really measures um, the forms of engagement, but also I think it does um, a lot of different things. Right. So I feel like um, on the internal side, like I still feel like I'm still in a CS field facing role, but Cisco is now my customer and now I'm focusing on how do I accelerate Cisco from a customer success industry standard or practice to make sure that we're building an experience where we can help not only scale the business, but make sure that our customers are seeing value. Um, so that's something that really CSOPs is. And, and to go back to what you were mentioning, I feel like CSOps is similar to what customer success was about 10 years ago where every organization knows that they need a customer success presence but they're still trying to fully identify how to define that, how to accelerate that. And I think that's what csops is currently doing today. So we're in this now new transitionary time where we're trying to identify how does CSOPs really help me relate to um, accelerating my time to value. And that's a question that I ask organizations, especially when I'm speaking, starting to work with them. Um, whether it's Cisco or other teams that I work with is what are, what's the end goal in mind? Just because similar to what we see on the sales side where if I was a sales AM M or an account manager, I can go ahead and forecast what I have in my pipeline, what I, what I want to expect to book quarter over quarter. But similar in customer success ops like what can I forecast, whether it's my renewals, my customer sentiment, things, um, that I can really help my customer out with. So I, I think that's kind of the biggest thing that I'm starting to see what csops is, it's really reinventing this customer experience. Um, rising customer expectations, what can we accelerate from them? And I call it the three P's is how do we make sure they have a personalized experience with us. How do we make sure we can be really proactive, um, and how do we make sure that we can really involve every person within the organization as well? So those three things I think is really important.

Speaker A: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's really important to start off with that because, um, this episode is going to be going into like, how to break into CSOPs, you know, the skills necessary, you know, challenges that arise. But I was just, just listening to what you just said then. And, um, would you say when you first, um, when you first started in a csops role, was there a quite a big sort of mental shift that you had to do because, like, you mentioned that the company's now your customer? Um, yeah. And it's that bit different, you know. Would you talk a little bit more about that?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it definitely was a shift, I feel like. Um, and, and I think one thing that I love about customer success in general is creating those, uh, cultivating relationships and being able to have, um, a relationship standard across the organization. So, like, when I was first in the customer success field, um, one of my favorite customers that I used to work with was nationwide and I visited them in Ohio. Uh, we had a great conversation and I realized that through this interaction and through this cultivation of relationships that, um, one of their key stakeholders pulled me aside one time and said, hey, we're thinking about making a decision with Cisco, but we're also looking at this competitor as well. I'd love to get your opinion and your thought process on this. And I realized that the customer wasn't just seeing me as a Cisco employee or their CSM representing them. They actually saw me as a trusted advocate and that I could consult with them and have this really great thought process and idea of walking them through what would be more advantageous for them. So I feel like in customer success ops, um, being able to have Cisco, that's now my customer, um, I work with so many different key stakeholders, right? So we have, um, different groups and organizations where we have a team that's focused on building specific key actions and deliverables that we see in a customer success console. Um, we work with teams on how do we enable some of our field teams to make sure that they have the right tools and resources to help accelerate their time to value for their customers. Um, so, so it is a little bit of a transition because you realize that you're not just working with a few different key stakeholders, you're really managing different groups and parts of the organization where we try to really ask ourselves as we move forward to making, you know, some of these changes within our organization, is it effective? Do we feel like everyone's coming along together? Um, there's, there's a, there's a quote, an idea that I really love is um, you know, it's okay to fail, but fail fast and let others know where you're going so we can go ahead and pick you back up. And I think that's the role of CSOPs is we try to really make sure that we are that arm and making sure that every team that we work with across Cisco feels successful in wanting to work with us. Um, so that's something that's really excited. It's been a change for sure. Just because it's not just focusing on success plans and focusing on um, roi. It's more of like, how do we do this from a large scale, um, across all organizations? Because now we're working with enterprise segments, commercial. Commercial segments, um, AMIA and apjc. So we're trying to really scale, um, at a really accelerated rate.

Speaker A: Oh, brilliant. Thank you. Out of curiosity though, um, who would you say, um, just, you know, for anyone who perhaps doesn't have a csops, uh, function, you know, within the customer success, uh, team, um, and they're wanting to learn a bit more about this, this role, um, because obviously it is still quite fairly new. Like you said before, it's like, uh, CSOps is almost what customer success was 10 years ago. But who would you say your m. Main. The people you work with. Closer start, you know, because I guess standard, you know, cs, it depends really. You know, it can be products, it can be, you know, sales or account management. What would you, you know, as a, as an op in an ops role. Yeah. Is it even more varied? I don't know.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of the, um, I like to call it a little bit of a Swiss army knife where you're working with so many different parts of the organization to really come, come aligned where you, you want to build towards this new, I call it a platform or an experience for our customers, especially from our customer success roles, teams as well. Um, so we actually work with different groups. We actually have a product management group that we work really closely with. We work with engineering very closely. We also work with our customer success leadership team. So we make sure that we're not, um, only recognizing the work that the CS teams are doing, but also what tools and resources are we providing them. Um, at Cisco I feel like it's a really unique experience when it comes to customer success ops because um, from day one when we're starting to build out motions and programs, we try to establish what we call a hierarchy management platform. So we ask ourselves, what is the specific criteria that a customer needs to go through a customer success motion with us? Just because a customer bought the right licensing doesn't mean that they'll have that comprehensive uh, customer success experience with us. We want to make sure that they're successful in their journey with us. So if they have the right licensing, if they have the right software and hardware, we feel like they're eligible to make sure that they're going to be really, um, successful in their journey with us. And then secondly, as we start working with these various teams, we try to really create specific pit stops. So if you think of a NASCAR racetrack or an F1 racetrack, you have the goal in mind of uh, trying to move as fast as possible. But we want to make sure that we have specific key checkpoints and mile markers with these specific teams to make sure that the customer and customer success teams are both seeing value. And I love that analogy of the NASCAR racetrack because if you think of the CSM in their driver's seat, the customer's in that um, in that passenger seat with them and csops is almost in the back of the, of the car making sure that we're all going at the same pace that we want to. So I feel like it's a really connected experience. So to answer your question, we just work with a variety of teams within the internal side to make sure this, this drive is successful.

Speaker A: Oh no, I love that analogy. Thank you so much for that. Um, really interesting I think because yeah, I think there are so many variations of CSOPs and I think it will obviously depend on what stage your company's at. I mean that's a big one. Determining at what point you need a ciops role, which I'm sure your presentation in San Francisco is going to go into more. But for those perhaps listening who um, are interested in CSOPs, um, and ah, in terms of becoming a CSOPs, a customer success ops manager, what kind of pathways and initial steps would you recommend? Because they're obviously overlapping, uh, they're obviously overlapping skills and sort of um, in terms of development there and obviously the foundations, you know, having a foundation in customer success, you know, it's incredibly important to know the role inside out. But can you explain the typical, you know, the transition of a typical CSM role that we all know to perhaps a CF Ops role, which perhaps for some might be a bit more unfamiliar.

Speaker B: Yeah, uh, great question. I would say, um, the biggest thing is uh, similar to that point that I brought up earlier about CSOPs kind of being that new horizon where every organization knows that they need a csops foundation to be able to create uh, some of these programs and some of these operational excellence, um, views and dynamics. I think the biggest thing is if you're thinking about a career in CSOPs, um, it's something that's going to be new and innovative. And I really recommend if it's something that you're really excited about, not only changing the course or the direction of your company, but also having that creative mindset as well. I think that's something that's really intriguing and exciting for someone that's looking into breaking into CSOPs. Um, because I think that was the question that I got when I was first coming into csops at Cisco is do you like already built out formats? Do you like built out programs or processes? Because if you do, this is really not the role for you. Um, we're looking for somebody that's creative, innovative but has ideas on how to change the process. Uh, so that was something that really excited about me, um, in the first step and then I think secondly was um, we have access to incredible data. Um, so you know, being in a CSM is like really being on the front line where it's like you're going to be so strategic in working with your customer, but you're also going to be tactical as well. If you need to execute on a specific priority or if your customer is facing a specific issue, that's something that we can really help out with from the CSM side. But when you think about the csops side, um, you're looking at the insights and data from a large perspective. And so when I first came into csops, um, I was given data, uh, and perspective on um, how much is a customer spending with us, um, when are they last logging in, um, how far have they accelerated in their customer success journey with us? Do they have an active relationship with the csm? Are there any adoption barriers? And so I started looking at segments to say, all right, well we have these group of customers that are, you know, really well accelerated within the architecture or what they're using from Cisco, but they're still not seeing the value out of customer success. So how do we create a program around that? And so you start getting really creative and innovative on some of those ideas. So I think that's Something that's really exciting. So if you love data, um, that's something to really get started with. And then I think just starting to build relationships with key stakeholders in customer success. I mean, I think as we define customer success and what a CSM does, are they looking at expansion of other opportunities when they start working with their customer? Are they looking at specifically helping them in adoption? Are they helping them from a renewals perspective? I think it'd be really, um, it's really exciting as you start working with some of those key stakeholders at your company, identifying what's relevant and what's important to them. Um, I think establishing a framework around customer success ops is so critical. Uh, so for me, I look at the acronym of the word value, where how do I validate my company's initiatives, how do I create awareness of what I want to do within ops? Um, learning what resources do I have to be able to excel? And then how do I measure utilization at our company? And then fully the E stands for embed. If I fully immerse myself and I feel like we ripped out CSOPs tomorrow, would we feel the impact of the business? So things like that, that I think can really start helping somebody start getting curious around CSOPs and getting involved into the program as well.

Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. So if you're data mad and um, really kind of have an appetite for testing out new processes and trying to better, that's the kind of those, kind of, I guess that, that ambition is something that's really kind of. And maybe if you're doing that already in your role, you might not recognize, you might not realize that you're doing it in your role. Perhaps like you might be sort of, you might be the one that's sort of trialing things out and I guess, would you, you know, would you say. Because obviously if your company member M. Hapsman doesn't have a csops role, that might be something you could potentially go into if you've already sort of displayed. Yeah. That appetite.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, and, and that's what. Like one of my favorite quotes that I, I look back on my career in is a quote that said, when performance is measured, performance improves, but when performance is measured and reported performance accelerates. And I, I used to love this quote because, uh, sometimes people are like, oh, it's all around micromanagement and tracking and it's not, it's more of how do we do things at scale. Right. So like if I talk about implementing a new process and now we're reporting on the metrics that are really relevant to the company, then I think the performance of what we see within this united effort are going to grow together. And so I think that's what's very similar with like, um, you know, the csops role is, you know, you may be somebody that's already getting into the data or really actively working with your customers. Um, but my question in mind is how do you launch this at scale? Right? So how do you do this from like a, uh, company perspective where if you're doing something that's really effective, how do we do this across other groups and regions and territories, or different products within your organization as well? And so I think that's why csops is so critical, because I think you start tracking and envisioning and seeing how, like, we can report back to. So the nice thing at Cisco is like, as me being in CSOPs, the architectures that we cover, one of our key stakeholders is the business unit. So the person that's actually creating the product, making it better, um, seeing how customers are using it. So they actually get a reflection on if we see some acceleration in the field and we have creative ideas around it, they're also seeing the value of, oh, man, I want to make my product even better because we're seeing that customers are starting to use it, or we can even go back to that, uh, business unit to say, hey, there's an adoption barrier here. And we're noticing that we have 200 to 300 customers that are experiencing the same thing. So I think that's what's really creative about it, is like, you may be already doing it. But my question is, how do we do this at scale? How do we replicate a process where you can report back to some of these key stakeholders or different business units or architectures and, and, and, and you may be already, um, doing it. It's just something that you can implement within your company as well. So.

Speaker A: Perfect. Brilliant. Thank you so much. I think that's gonna be so useful to so many people who'll be in the sort of stage where they're looking to no absolute. And I think also when we're talking about this kind of almost like a new frontier in terms of, like, particularly for companies who wanted to scale their CS operation, um, it's probably important for the purpose, uh, of this episode. And I think people who were going through similar things might, you know, will really benefit from this. Talking about, I guess, the pros and the challenges, I think of CSOPs, I think, you know, working in CSOPs, compared to more traditional Roles Because I think, you know, I'm quite curious to know what are the, what are the unique opportunities? I think we've spoken about this a little bit. What are the unique opportunities of working in CSOPs compared um, to a regular kind of CS position?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, um, I think the first thing that comes to mind is um, one of the opportunities in working in CSOPs is uh, being able to stay mindful and in the current moment. So I think one thing that I really had to learn when I came over to csops is um, when you're working for a customer, I think um, working on it, helping accelerate customers use of the technology that they purchase. With us we have a lot of customers that start talking a lot about like hey, this is going really well or this is good. We don't like this, this is what we need to improve. And so um, when you move over to csops, you almost go away from that, which sounds kind of strange just because as I mentioned that like you feel like the company you're working for is now your customer, but with the company working for as your customer, you start looking at things not only as good or bad, you start looking at things that are, is this effective or ineffective towards our values within our organization and also what we have in customer success. And so I think that's something that's really exciting because it helps you pivot and stay present in the moment, um, depending on what you, what you want to do within your organization. So for example, um, at Cisco NCS Ops, we've really tried to create some strategic foundational pillars to make sure that whether it's a sales team or a product management team, ask us to run a specific motion, um, within our organization. We ask, well, where does it align across our foundational pillars? Is it one where it's going to be really improving our renewal process or is it one that's going to really improve our activation process where we first kick off with our customers. And so those are some of those things that we ask ourselves when we get asked to run these motions is how is it going to be effective towards our values not only in customer success, but the overall uh, vision and strategy for the business. So I think that's something that's huge. Um, that's, that's a really pro for me. I get really excited about that because when you see that something that's really working really well, how do you build consistency? How do you level up? How do you make sure that you're still being accountable towards some of those things that you've established. So I think that's something that's really exciting because once things start going really well and you're accelerating, um, you get more excited about how do we run that and accelerate that time over time. And so, um, I think that's something that's super huge. Um, second pro, I think about it is being really innovative on that experience. Um, at Cisco we've actually um, released a product that's more of a self serve portal for our customers. Um, so customers can actively log in and see what they're actively doing from a customer success standpoint. Standpoint with us. Um, it's interesting because when I've gone to the customer successful, uh, collective, there's a lot of great discussion and dialogue around are you guys using Salesforce for CSM tracking? Are you using, you know, Red Hat? Are you using, sorry, Plan Hat? Are you using um, gainsight? Um, but then you notice that in the CSOP side like Cisco is trying to be a game changer and we're saying, well we're actually creating a self serve portal for some of our customers to be able to log in with us. So if you. So not only are we tracking customer success, but then the customer feels like they have visibility on what they're tracking. So I think that innovative piece is super cool because you feel like you're part of that discussion. Uh, so that's really exciting as well. Um, but I would say some of the areas that um, you know, that could be a challenge with customer success is um, especially on the op side is just building out that structure. Right? So like um, when you come to measuring customer success and foundational pieces, I talked to you a little bit about how do you track customer success, but also what are the teams that are going to be involved. Right. So like um, are you trying to build out a specific journey where you're going to need digital assets? Um, are you looking at how do you scale across the business? Like do you have, depending on how much a customer spends with us, are they going to have a different customer success experience related to a customer that's spending a little bit less on the architecture? So you start establishing some of those things. And, and, and it's hard because I feel like not only do you have to be relevant of what you're doing from a foundational piece and pillar and perspective in csops, but you work with so many different key stakeholders that you want to make sure that you're addressing priorities and aligning to what their metrics are as well. Uh, so it can get a little bit messy. But, um, but I think it's something where it's more joy in the journey as well. So, um, I just think that, you know, as a csm, traditionally, you have really, you know, specific areas of improvement, like making sure that the customer has positive sentiment, making sure that the customer is using the product, and making sure that the customer is going to stay with us. Um, but in CSOPs you may have, you know, 50 different priorities. I think it's just really, uh, you know, that's something that. Just to keep in mind as well.

Speaker A: I mean, it sounds. Thank you so much for that. It sounds so varied and I think. Definitely, yeah, I mean, I think this, the central theme running through this episode is just the innovation behind CSOPs, um, which, um. And I, I just wonder, like, what, um, would you. What does like a typical day for a. In for a CS Ops role look like? You know, you know, is it a case of, you know, there's just, there's just such a sheer amount of variety and um, obviously so many key, so many different key stakeholders. What would you say, like a typical day for you looks like?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I would say, um, it's really. The day varies on, on the week and the progress. And so that's something that's exciting to me as well, is it's not. I log into my computer and it's the same thing where I'm checking emails and then I'm like, okay, I want to start reaching out to customers. Traditionally in a CSM role, it's, um. CSOPs can be so different. So, um, I will say that I think the components of the job are so exciting because, um, not only are you being a brand advocate for the company that you're representing, but also your day to day may vary on the needs of the business. And so, for example, in December I had the chance to go to New York City with the VP of Customer Success and visit one of our top customers on one of our products that they were actively using. Um, but it was really exciting to not only be a brand advocate for Cisco, but also to take in the feedback of what the customer was mentioning and actually be a brand advocate to say, hey, I'm going to now take that back to make sure that we're improving that process for you and also that the CSM of that, of that experience in that visit also feels like they have a trusted advocate with them as well. That now I'm influencing change on the OP side while we're trying to get the product better, but also having The CSM really work closely with me. So, um, so that's really exciting to me. So like one day I may be hosting an office hours for all the CSMs in the field and having 200 to 300 CSMs talk to me about what's their top mine priorities, what they've been thinking about. The next day we may be building a dashboard to see customers deep insights and user behavior on what they're actively doing with our products with us. Um, the next day maybe more focused on how do we start. You know, I've talked a little bit about this NASCAR racetrack, but how do we accelerate customers within the point where they purchase the product to 100 days within use of the product and then may. I may be focusing on the next day on a campaign, on focusing on our customers that have their top renewals coming. So every day is different. And I think that's why I love my job title so much is Cisco was like, hey, let's focus on our strategic program. What are our top initiatives? And that may change. I think that's the thing that's exciting about the role is next quarter I may be focusing on a new product innovation. The next quarter I may be focusing on how do we integrate some of our acquisitions together. So I think that's what's really exciting about the role is it may change day to day, but I feel like I'm cultivating and creating each day.

Speaker A: I think you hit the. Thank you so much. I think you hit the nail on the head there. It's exciting. It sounds really varied. Food, um, and something, you know, you can sink your teeth into so many different parts. Like, yeah, I've really, I mean, it sounds like you have a great time there. Um, yeah. Really?

Speaker B: Yeah. When I tell and to follow up on that, I just tell people like, um, the biggest advice that I give, especially from a CS Ops perspective, if you're thinking about coming in brand new, um, one of the things that I really, I highly advocate is have something called the beginner's mind, where like you're looking at something for, for the very first time, even though you've, you've maybe done it, uh, in a previous time. Because I think that's what gives you that perspective to say, okay, if I'm looking at this for the very first time, what can I do to influence change on it? And I think that's what csops is so exciting about because they're just like, we want those ideas. Like I had a leader tell me once, it's like, Roger, we're not paying you because we want you to show up and, and do the work. We're paying you because I want to hear your ideas. I want to hear what you're thinking. I want to hear like. And csops has been a great opportunity just because, especially at the company I work for, that I love. Um, I've had ideas and conversations with senior executives at Cisco where they're just like, hey, if you were going to do it your way, how would you do it? And I'm like, well, I would look at this, I would examine this customer base, I would do it this way. And they're like, great, we're going to do it that way. And we know you'll take care of the program because it's yours. And you want to make sure that you're aligning with, with all of our key partners and, and so it's, it's exciting. So, yeah, to just further validate it. It's, it's just an adventure and a very fun one to say the least.

Speaker A: Oh, no, thank you so much. Oh, such a, such a, such a lovely response and I think loads of people will love to hear that. I think I also wanted, I was quite curious what you said before about, you know, um, you went to New York and with the VP of Customer Success. You know, that's, that's incredible meeting the, uh, you know, one of your top clients. But do you have, ah, do you would, you know, just for the sake of our listeners, do you have a story that you could maybe share about, you know, a significant, you know, perhaps you don't maybe don't have to name any names, but, you know, a breakthrough moment you've had in CSOPs or, you know, a challenge you've overcome.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I would say, um, you know, one thing that's been super exciting for us is, um, you know, traditionally in customer success, we're focusing on the adoption of. So to give a little bit of background. So Cisco is going through a really exciting journey where we've traditionally been a hardware company, where we focused on selling, um, you know, specific routers or data centers. But now we're focusing on software adoption, where we look at licensing, where we look at, uh, specific customers on their journey with us. And so when we've gone through this transition period, we really focused on software adoption just to make sure that we're having customers see value. Um, but one of the breakthroughs that I would say, especially that I've experienced over the last year is we're really focusing on some of our services business. So I've talked a little bit about the self serve portal where customers can log in and track their journey with us. Um, it's been a breakthrough moment for us just because, um, we feel like it's been something that's been so exciting because now customers have the visibility, um, to not only log in but also have visibility on um, managing some of their Cisco devices through this portal. So they feel like they have um, access and controllability. But we also offer customer success resources that I think are really exciting and I think it's a huge breakthrough for us is we have these sessions called Ask the Expert Sessions where it's a one to many approach where you can attend a webinar where it's getting started, a product overview, a health check, but also we offer something called accelerators or if a customer logs in and they're stuck at a specific adoption point, they can actually request an accelerator, which is a one to one session with a technical expert at Cisco that's going to consult them on their journey with us from adopting that service with us. And so I think that's been a huge breakthrough because I think customers at first were like, wow, this is brand new. Um, I don't know how to fully utilize this. Um, but we've seen that, you know, we've grown over the last year from 400% of customers actively logging in and using this technology with us. Um, and so when we go back and um, you know, and so what's even really cool about this product is we've launched a mobile app for it. So now customers can access it from a drop of the hat. Um, they're on their phone, um, they feel like they're carrying Cisco everywhere they go with us. Um, and so this customer in New York that we really love, they were actually on the subway and, and one of the key network engineers was like, hey, I pulled it out of my phone. Um, as I'm checking LinkedIn, as I'm checking Facebook, I'm also checking the network, uh, of um, what I'm actively going into the office for and I can drop it from my phone. And so not only do we see logins go up, but we see customer behavior go up. And so it's really exciting because from the csops perspective is I get to report to say, hey, over the last year we've implemented influence change, but we now see that we're on the ground level with our customers and we're actively seeing what's important to them to get them to log in and be able to use this portal. So um, and now we talk about AI driven capabilities where we're trying to build towards where if a customer logs in they can represent and see what their customer vertical is doing, whether they're in manufacturing healthcare. Um, and it's just exciting because I go home at the end of my work day and I get really excited to say, hey, I was a part of that change with this amazing, amazing team. Like it's so cool. And, and, and now that I went to New York and validated that one of my customers, our top customers, is actively using it, they've had a great experience. I just feel so excited that I was a part of influencing that change. And so I think that's a breakthrough moment that I've seen in CSOPs where um, here's part of this journey and um, you know, you get to celebrate those wins. Like um, you know going back to this NASCAR analogy is you think of a NASCAR driver being successful is they have an excellent uh, pit crew where they're the ones that are manufacturing, you know, make sure that the nuts or the tires or, or the specific windbreakers are really operational excellence. And so I think in CSOPs you think of the CSM and the customer are those NASCAR drivers. Um, but we're that excellent pit crew that's made sure that it's all come together and I think that's something that we're celebrating all together. So it's really cool.

Speaker A: Oh, thanks so much for sharing that. It's really, from what you just said it sounds like you've really can see like the knock on effect of what you're doing to ah, support your company and. Yeah, it sounds phenomenal.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, and that's, that's the thing like um, you think about like our company has gone through a different iteration of customer success where we're creating customer experience and yeah, um, it's been an exciting time because at times you do feel like you're at a startup working for a huge organization that has all the backing and belief and, and being able to trust the vision and the acceleration and course correct. And so I think that's something that's super helpful and uh, yeah, so I've loved every second of it.

Speaker A: Oh no, thank you. Thanks so much for sharing that. Brilliant. I think something we've touched on throughout ah, this episode is kind of like the evolution of CSOPs and how it's ever moving. I think looking ahead, um, this is something that, uh, something that's been on my mind recently. Um, you know we've got our state of customer Success report to 2024 and you know we found that it was quite split in the middle. We asked our, we asked a pool of, pool uh, of customer success professionals, you know, whether they have an OPS function or not. And it was really kind of split in the middle. It was a very slight majority. Have you have an ops CSOPS function? It was like something like 53%, 55% and um, you know, about 44.7%. Don't you know, what do you make of the things like that? Um, considering the state of I guess customer Success operations in 2024, uh, you know, where it's been, where do you see it going? I'm um, quite curious to hear your insight on that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think um, it's a great question because I feel like um, you know, there's so many things going around, around like CSOPs in general where like, like you know, when you gave me that statistic I was actually shocked because it's almost like you know, one in every three or two companies don't really see that CSOPs arm critical or, or, or valuable. And so I turn it back to if you think about like from a sales perspective, um, when you know I work with sales account teams and sales leadership and so one of the things that they do quarter over quarter is they forecast on what deals will close or what they have in their pipeline and that actually accrues to the revenue of the. So like if you look at forecast calls, if you look at um, even end of quarter calls and results or results earning calls, they're all focused on how much revenue was driven within the organization. So I think that's such a critical piece. Um, when you look at CSOPs and I think it's so important to identify what's the mission value or the driver statement of your organization. Is it focused on expansion, Is it focused on adoption, Is it focused on renewals? Um, and in this example I'll use renewals but if I was able to do that from a CS perspective. So if I go back to my company's organization or similar to what we said in sales, if I said well we're really focused on adoption and renewals and what if I could say if we start tracking on uh, a customer's user behavior or how they're using their product, but if we feel like they're very engaged with us and we feel like they're getting the full value out of it, how exciting would it be that I could go back to my organization to say since they Reached the finish, go goal or this specific checkpoint. I am forecasting that they're going to renew 70 to 80% of the time. Um, and I feel like that would be so critical to a business where they'd be like, wow, like, adoption is so important, just like sales is. And I think, um, you know, we hear this term in customer success called shelfware, where the customer's not using it and it's time for renewal. They'll get a phone call from the csm. They're like, oh, yeah, we did we purchase that? I guess we did, but we're not using it, so we don't really see a value out of it. Um, it's, it's like, you know, it's so critical to see like, what we can do, um, from that perspective as well. And I think about it like if you look at like a cell phone, right? Like, if I, the first time that I bought a cell phone, like, you know, 20 years ago, it was all around texting and calling. But now my phone is my calendar. It has my, you know, Netflix and Hulu subscriptions. It has, um, a communication I can facetime. And so it does all these different capabilities. And so that's what's so exciting about customer success ops is just because a customer bought a product, they may have 10 different use cases of why they're using the product. Um, and so like, you know, and that's what gives you that deeper layer and insight to your customer. So, um, so customer A may be using it for a completely different reason for customer B, but they still bought the same product. Um, and so when we start developing some of those use cases and identifying, I can get not only deeper on the customer user and behavior, but then I can go back again and say, hey, we've tracked these customers, we know that they're going to renew with us because they're using it for this capability. And I can guarantee we're going to go back to that 70 to 80% renewal rate. Um, I think that's something that's so important. So if anything, I would highly recommend every organization just get your toe in the water with CSOPs, because, um, that's something that can really be a game changer for the business.

Speaker A: Oh, brilliant. No, absolutely agree. And, um, it's something that we are obviously seeing crop up more and more. Um, but I think conversations like this and hearing people's experiences of companies, experience of CSOPs is what's really going to move the needle. And for people to realize, actually we do need that, like, that is it's not even just. Yeah, it's, it's quite critical.

Speaker B: Yeah. My biggest advice is if you don't know where to start, start like because that's like even career advice that I've gotten. When I was going to move into CSOPs, um, you know the first question that I ask myself is am I ready? And I know we're on video but I put in parentheses like how will I know I'm m ready? Like you kind of just go into the role and start learning about it and you start figuring out what it works and you up level yourself. And so I think even not only if you're interested in CSOPs or even if your company doesn't have a CSOPs organization, just start, start somewhere. Start saying hey, what if we did this across this organization or hey, what if we tracked it this way? That's actually you putting your toe in the water with CSOPs. So start, you know, get, get curious about it. I think that's something that's really exciting.

Speaker A: Well, Roger, phenomenal. Thank you so much. We're kind of drawing to the end now but I really, really want to talk to you about your pre, your, your keynote uh, presentation at in San Francisco. Um, it's coming up, um, really excited and I hope, I hope that all of our listeners come. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you're, what you're going to be talking about? Because this is almost like a bit of a, a preview of all the good stuff to come.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think it's um, it's kind of that second layer where it's like um, the topics around aligning CX Ops around company wide initiatives and organizations. And so I think it's going to be really tailored on how do you start creating a format on or a framework around CS Ops that can be really effective towards. How do you start tracking customer success? How do you enable some of your field team? Um, some of the things that I want to do in this session are very interactive so we want definitely a lot of group participation, getting um, curious, having thoughts and perspective. But we really started aligning some of that framework. So I talked about some of these foundational pillars in customer success ops. Um, so we talk a little bit more about having a strong alignment with the sales team. How do we start from day one activation? What do we have from an adoption perspective? So what taxonomies, what resources do we have to help execute on adoption and what does that really mean in your organization? Um, we start talking a little bit more about that renewal process as well and looking for expansion opportunities. So I think it's just things, especially if you come from different CS visions and understandings of what your company wants to do. I think there's a route to market for all in this session. So I'm excited to explore more about that and just get people starting to think more about that CS Ops ARM and how to fully, um, not only extend it, but also how do you really accelerate it as well?

Speaker A: Well, it's going to be an absolute cracker. I really can't wait for it. Um, so if anyone hasn't, hasn't already registered, get down. September San Francisco. That's where you need to be. It's going to be. Yeah, and I think these events are such, they're such great opportunities to network as well. Um, and there's going to be so many, so many interesting perspectives, I imagine after your talk, uh, people chatting about their experience of CSOPs and uh, yeah, so it's gonna be a good one.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that's, I mean, I'll just highlight. So last year it was super fun. Um, and we had a session where we focused on bringing somebody up on the stage and we'd ask them a little bit more. Like it was exciting because I said, hey, I need a volunteer and I need somebody to step on stage with me. Um, they did. We got the whole audience involved and the person on stage actually walked away with a hundred dollars. Uh, and it was really cool because I think it was just kind of a message where we said, hey, like sometimes you don't know what you're volunteering for or stepping into, but it can actually be an amazing opportunity or reward. And, and so I think that's where I want our, our audience or, or the person that's attending to walk away with, to say, hey, what, what would happen if I started like, you know, exploring what csops means to me? Or what if I did take that opportunity to talk to that person in my organization to say, I'm interested in coming over to csops, Because I feel like people that have experiences in customer success are the best people to be in CSOPs. Like, you think about it like if you're, you know, if you're a footballer, soccer player, you, you ask somebody that's been in this league or have played for a long time to be your mentor or coach. And I think that's similar to CSOps is the company's asking you, oh, you've been in seat for a very long time as a csm, come over and help us change this model. Um, and so I think that's what you're going to walk away attending the session to be able to say, I think I'm going to start. So I'm really excited about that.

Speaker A: Oh, I can't wait. It's going to be so good. Really excited for this one, Roger. Um, well, unfortunately that's all we've got time for today, but thank you so much for taking the time. And this has been such an opener for me personally and I think so many people listening in because CSOPs, it's. Yeah, there's so. There's so much more exciting things to come from it. Um, and I just love speaking to people like you, so passionate clearly about it and, um, just imparting your pearls of wisdom. So thank you so much, Roger. It's an absolute pleasure.

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been a great dialogue and discussion and I can't wait for the upcoming session. So everyone listening register, because I think it's going to be something that's super exciting.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Oh, thank you so much, Roger.

Speaker B: Take care.

Speaker A: Thanks for tuning in. Be sure to check out our other episodes and go to the customersuccesscollective.com for even more customer success related content. You can also join our global community on Slack and can find the link to that on the CSC website. But until then, see you next time.