The Best Advice We Have Ever Received...

Speaker A: What is up everyone? Welcome to another episode of Chew on this. Uh, today we are joined by Jake Carls co founder and the Rainmaker at Midday Squares, the first functional chocolate bar now in 10,000 plus stores with 85 million plus squares sold. Jake, this is not the first time you've been here, but thanks for coming on again, man.

Speaker B: Oh, dude. It seems like yesterday though. I know it's been a while, but it seems like yesterday. And uh, yeah, I've been watching what you guys been doing and it fires me up. You know, it's not easy building companies and seeing others just every day, you know, put their front foot forward. It amps me up.

Speaker A: Absolutely, man. No, I mean your content is probably the most fire on LinkedIn right now because you guys post every anything and everything, the good, the bad and the ugly. And we will get into that. So your title is Rainmaker. Let's talk about that for a little bit because A, how do I get a title like that? Yeah. And B, um, so explain to me what a Rainmaker actually does on a day to day basis. Tell me what Jake Carl's week looks like.

Speaker B: He, you know what's crazy is the weeks change every week. So different cities typically. But the Rainmaker came originally because I started the company with my sister and brother in law, uh, you know, and they took the co CEO position. I took a CMO position because I wanted some sort of title and I ended up failing miserably as a, as a cmo. You know, I just wasn't good at, you know, managing organization and execution in that role. So I ended up stepping down after like eight months. It was just like pure discomfort. It was literally me just staying there for the sake of an ego thing while it was, it was actually hurting the company. And I'll never forget I stepped down and I said, I said to my partners like I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing but I got to figure it out. And they said take your time, just, just figure out your strengths and, and go all in on that. And what I ended up realizing realizing was I was actually really good at storytelling. I was really good at, you know, making friends for the company and I was good at being out there. So like just building community but not doing it in, in such a strategic, organized management way. And I just needed to be free. I needed to be free of any operations and I need to just focus on how can I bring in relationships for this company, Any type of relationship, whether it's sales, investment, retail, media, whatever it is bring it to the team and then let them execute on the actual relationship after the friendship. So, you know, I literally travel weekly. I go meet clients, I go meet new potential investors, I go meet people in the media world, I meet people in other industries. And all it is is I'm just spreading the love of Midday Squares. I'm spreading that love more and more and more. And that's turned now into like tons of keynotes, tons of podcasting, ton of literally going to our retail pitches and not being the one pitching, just one bringing energy. And that's uh, what a rainmaker does. He or she brings in, uh, the, the friendships for the organization. And, and it's been, it's been a hell of a journey. And you know, I'm so glad to not doing any, not to be doing any operations. My partners still do operations. They're so co CEOs and they don't even know where I am. Probably three quarters of the time, they just know when I swipe the credit card in different cities, they're like, what the hell are you doing in this place? I'm like, yo, I'm about to close. A crazy opportunity. Excuse my language. And a crazy opportunity. And the beauty about the position is it needs to be a long term position because the ROI doesn't happen like that. There's no like ROI directly. It could be an ROI in six years. Right? It could be a relationship that comes to fruition in six years from now. And, and that's okay. So I have that freedom is. Which allows my rainmaking to be successful in quotations.

Speaker A: No, um, I like what you said there. There's no direct roi. It's almost like, you know, when you're spending on brand versus performance, there's no direct ROI there. But you see it, you know, maybe not right away, but six months to a year to six years down the line, you'll see it. So, I mean, I watch all your content. I, I think you're a hell of a public speaker. You freaking crush it. And I feel like a lot of founders who are afraid to put themselves out there like that need to learn from you because it's a master class and kind of building a personal brand, but then bringing it back to the actual brand that you're, you're building as well. So kudos, uh, to you. I think you're crushing that there.

Speaker B: I think the story you tell yourself is critical. Whether you're a founder or whether you're in corporate or you're not employed. I think what we tell ourselves is is probably the most important story. Why? Because at the end of the day, you could tell yourself, I can't create content. I shouldn't, I don't have time. I don't, I can't do this. It's going to hurt the business. And if you do that, that compounds in a negative momentum that will eventually just not let you do anything and you'll just conform to what the everyone else. But if you tell yourself a different story, that's like, hey, I'm going to try this. I'm going to do one little thing a day. I actually have a great story. It's super interesting. My business is interesting. Then you'll start to share that story, whether it's good at the beginning or not. You're still creating the muscle to get comfortable with the conviction of sharing. And then once you get more and more comfortable, your story will get more clear, it'll get more, you know, articulate, it will get more, it will get stronger. And next thing you know, you're going to have opportunities come from angles you've never even expected. You're literally going to create serendipity and your surface level on widens so wide that like, I swear to you, like the moment I started sharing on LinkedIn. We talked about LinkedIn at the beginning. I used to get 10 views. Now it's up to 250,000 views a post. And this is from everything from finance relationships to new retail partners to new team members to also just new friends of mine. And simply because I decided to share my story and I wanted people to know what my story was from my own mouth and not from someone else making it about. So someone else making a story about me that they think.

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Speaker A: Now let's get back to the episode from day one. Midday Squares documented the good, the bad and the ugly on social and it got investors and retailers paying attention before they ever pitch them. So can you actually trace these kind of these funding rounds or a retail deal back to that content and how does it directly, um, or, I'm sorry, let me do that part again. Can you actually trace these funding rounds or retail deals back to the content? How directly does building out loud actually convert?

Speaker B: I'm a huge, uh, advocate and you know, this of building out loud it's been since the beginning. So August 4, 2018 my pitch to my partners was if we want to get people to know who we are, we need to get people to care. And if they care, they'll pay attention. If they pay attention, we can then sell to them and communicate with them. So how did we get people to care and how do we get them to pay attention? Was we simply told a story that was raw, unfiltered, it was dramatic, it was emotional, it was sharing the greatest successes and those greatest momentous wins, but also the difficult hardships and the obstacles and the adversities which most humans in the world go through. Both they experience some greatness at times and they experience failure at times. So what that did was it created a sense of familiarity and trust and relatability with end consumers. And that was the first part. So selling online, getting people excited, wanting to support us, try our samples online, and that worked. And then the next thing that happened was we kept multiplying that story. So sharing it, you know, on our personal accounts, sharing it on the Midday Square accounts, and again, hardship, successes and everything that you can imagine from an emotion that has to do with building a business. So nothing outside of building a business, but still therapy sessions that were within the business of my partners and I, talking about serious things, we shared those things and it gave people a glimpse that they never really saw or they haven't seen much of prior in our industry. So what ended up happening was investors start to watch this on, on LinkedIn or on Instagram and they would start to watch. They may not like the stuff in terms of like like, and comment, but they start to get very familiar with the brand. So without us having a meeting, they start say, oh, I already know that they're, they just got into Target or they, they just, they got, they launched a new innovation that, that is absolutely crushing it on margin because they were watching the jo unfolded rather than us having to pitch them and cold reach out when the time was right. So we built these indirect friendships or trusts prior to even meeting or reaching out to these groups. And I could tell you, like, we've raised the investors that we do have. The initial way that they found us was through the storytelling. So it was through the build out loud. And that put us one foot in the door. And then obviously the due diligence and the business model had to kick in the other side. So you need both. And then from a retail perspective, just like traceability wise is the more we told our story out loud, the more retailers reached out to either our, uh, brokers that we work with or us directly and said, do you guys want to sell and come meet us. And that happened with small little retail accounts that are independents in the city of Montreal where we're from to the, to big national chains. And I'll never forget, the more storytelling and building out loud you do, the more humanized, humanized your business becomes. Because what ends up happening is it's no longer just transactional in these conversations. It's like, oh, no, I saw that story of you dancing in the grocery store with that guy, Stewart, that manager. You know, that is the best content makes me smile. Boom. It's no longer just about the business anymore. It's about something human that we can both relate to, feel and actually laugh about or, you know, or talk about. So I think brands that don't build out loud, and I'm not saying you have to show therapy sessions or adversities or hardships. You just got to show what's authentic to you guys. But if you're not doing that, you are really missing out on a chance to win this attention game, to win this economy that we're living in. And especially with AI and you know, things that we all have access to these tools, intimacy is critical. Um, you know, humanization is more powerful, in my opinion, than ever before. So if you're telling that narrative and you're building all that and it's true and it's authentic and there's actually real emotions, you are going to be different and that's going to be necessary going forward in retail or investment world or anywhere. So there's been literally moments that are traced directly back to a uh, content piece being seen that was a build out loud piece that that individual or group is now working with Midday Squares because of that initial seeing that initially.

Speaker A: Yeah, no 100% I agree with you. I think when we first started our brand, Avi, um, Ron and Ash, they were posting all the time on LinkedIn. But I was always the kind of the resilient. I didn't want to do it. I've always been an introvert. I didn't really want to put myself out there. And then I remember when I first started doing it took hours and hours to kind of edit one piece of content and then just, you know, it doesn't work right. It's more of a volume game. Be authentic, just post um, anything. And then once I started doing that you kind of start seeing, you know, you get the 10 views and then you get the 100 views and a thousand views and whatever it is. But my point here is once all three of us started doing that and kind of attaching ourselves to the brand, that's when the retailers really started reaching out. That's when the Walmart started reaching out. That's when you know, you get your foot in there. That's when the other people start reaching out and they just see your content. Oh, I already know about it a little bit. Just like you were saying, you're not doing the whole pitch about what the brand is. They already kind of know and you're kind of just getting right to the point where it's like all right, what skus am I picking up here and just going from there.

Speaker B: But um, and you, and you need to look at it not as a view, perspective, like I know you and I were talking about views and just to give as an example, but like I think as ah, you're going to go create content, you know, focus on just, you know, what emotion do you want to evoke and do you even like your own content? You know, if you, if those two things work, just then post it and obviously as long as you're a kind person but like the moment you do that you might get 100 views. But if 70 people, those hundred views are in your are in retail and you're trying to expand retail and they're at these different accounts and then now they're like okay, wait, are we selling your product then you're crushing it versus someone that's trend, you know, going just for trends potentially and no one even knows what the brand is. Or uh, there's no connectivity. So I would say is focus more on. On actually truth, truthful things. That. That doesn't require you to sit for three, four hours of perfection or polishing it. Just post the content you love and that's true to you, but also evoking some sort of emotion because there's billions of pieces of content out there, and if you're going to post the same thing as somebody else or the brand next to your competitor, it's literally going to be swiped, scrolled by, or fast forwarded. Because we are living in a time where if you don't make people feel something or they don't care or don't feel relatable, relatable to any bit of the content, it's not going to register. They don't care. And that's why, like at Midday Squares, we don't really talk about our product necessarily in the content. Like, we don't talk about the protein, the fiber, which is great stuff, by the way, and clean ingredients. It's amazing. But if I hounded that down to you every day, you'd eventually be like, this brand is so boring. But if I show you, you know, a moment where my sister stepped down as CEO and took, you know, took eight months off on a sabbatical because she had, uh, you know, a health scare and. And a nervous breakdown, and she had to go through that moment and came back from it, and I was back at the company. Now you're like, whoa, I'm going through burnout. Or I'm. I've been through that in my life. I want to know more about these people in this company. How can I support? How can I cheer them on? How can I help them? So I think that that's the game you got to play. And again, what's Midday Squares is game or what's obvious game or what's is. They're different games. You know, what's authentic to the brand is the questions you need to ask as a team. What is the raison d', etre, as they say in French, or the why of this company? What's the purpose? And how do we share the story around that consistently over and over and over again and chop it up in many different ways?

Speaker A: No, that's really well said. It's a great segue here into, uh, our next segment here. So not every founder is great on camera. I mean, Jake, you're amazing on camera, right? I feel like it's natural to you. Just from knowing you. I feel like you're more extroverted than Most people. Um, but then you do have a lot of people who are a little bit intimidated by the camera, don't do great on camera. Maybe they're an awesome person off camera, but that doesn't come out on camera. What's some type of content that somebody like that could create without having to get in front of the camera and still build a personal brand?

Speaker B: So I think two things. So number one, we go back to the story that we're telling ourselves. So it's very easy to tell yourself a story that, you know, I'm not good at this, or I can't do this. And the truth is, is you can learn to potentially be good at it. Number one, you could also learn to get comfortable, a little more comfortable with things that make you uncomfortable. And, you know, public speaking is my biggest fear. Till I was 25 years old, it was literally, yeah. And now I give keynotes, you know, weekly. And the reason being is, you know, one day I made a decision that I was going to step onto the stage. Even though I was going to bank, I was going to screw up the whole thing. But I stepped onto the stage and I botched it. But I had the courage to step on the stage and that courage was addicting. And I then tried to parlay that courage more and more and more. And then slowly I got better and better and better, and now it's become more second nature. It doesn't mean I'm not still scared and I still have a fear, but it's now used to my advantage rather than something of a disadvantage. So that's first thing. Second thing is, if you're not comfortable on camera, you don't need to be, uh, a great camera person. What you could do is you could write, you could Write M on LinkedIn text format, you can go on X and you can write tech stuff. You could do audio specific, just audio. You could do so many different ways. If you have a great story that's interesting, that's valuable, that you believe is something that's meaningful, then you'll figure out ways to share. You don't be the talking head person that shares it, you know, dancing on the camera, yelling and screaming like I do. No, that's true to me. I think you need to understand what, what is your strengths and where can you lean into those strengths rather than try to completely learn weaknesses. But that being said, it might be discomforting to build on those strengths because it's, it's hard. It's, it's, it's difficult to press the word Press post. It takes courage, it takes conviction. It takes an ability to say, screw it. I don't care what people think. I believe that this is, this is a good thing. Right? So I think that that's it is to tell yourself the story. Tell yourself a different story. So actively create a different story in your brain. The second you should do is, is post, post things that you are comfortable with first to build the momentum and then add a little layer every week that's slightly, a little bit more uncomfortable. And like I said, if you don't put yourself, take a picture of your product in a store and talk about, you know, how hard it was to get into that store and how proud you are, or talk about getting kicked out of a store and show a picture of, uh, you know, uh, of a moment of a graph going downwards or something and talk about the emotions behind it. A story requires some sort of emotionality. So don't just post facts and figures. I think that that's too commoditized. Make people feel something by actually sharing what happened. Share it. Because we all have a story. Doesn't matter if it's obvior Midday Squares or a plumber. Like, we all have a story because we live millions of experiences every day of our life. Sorry, every. Every min. Our life is a new experience. So you have many things. You just got to put it together and not care about what others will think or judge you on. Because as long as you're a good person, you're not going to get into trouble.

Speaker A: No. 100%. I feel like that fear comes from, oh, uh, no, maybe nobody will comment on this or maybe someone will think it's cringe or whatever. But at the end of the day, who cares? Who cares what those people think? Because the second you get a million views on your video, everyone's gonna be like, oh my God, he did it.

Speaker B: So they're like, wow. They're like, that's such great content.

Speaker A: Yeah. They'll be like, oh, you're killing it, dude. You're great on camera, dude.

Speaker B: I'll never forget. I'll never forget the beginning of this business. Beginning of M. Midday Squares. Uh, and I'll never forget the first couple of months. People used to tell us and from every. From, from industry experts in quotations to people that were friends with us would say, isn't this gimmicky, the content? Like, like, is it actually selling products? Like, you guys look a little cringe out there a bit. We. And then we just blocked the noise out and we stayed true to what we believed internally, what we truly believed. And we just kept going and going. And the next thing you know, those same people be like, oh my God, like you just got into, you know, Walmart Canada. Like, oh my God, you just got into a target. And it's like, yeah, because it compounds. The compounding effect is real. It's one of human's greatest forces other than momentum is the compound. Right. And when you compound it, things happen. But you gotta have an ability to block out that noise and that negativity and that judgment and still stay true on your vision. And it will come from everyone. People you love, people that don't like you because it's hard to see what you see. And that's something that you gotta understand is not everyone's gonna see your vision. People are gonna think you're delusional. But that's not a bad thing because in 10 years from now, it's not so delusional. Yeah, it's, it's working. It's, it's winning. It's, it's, everyone's using it. Right? So again, the story that you're gonna tell yourself is the most important story you'll ever live by.

Speaker A: No, I love that. I love that you said, you know, they don't, not everybody's going to see your vision. So they don't see, you know, A to B. They only see everything in between.

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Speaker C: Now let's get back to the episode.

Speaker A: So getting into Costco took three years partly because Costco wanted a lower price than they were willing to accept. So they rallied fans to buy at full price during Costco's in store roadshow, proving breaking Costco's decade old first week sales record. That's crazy. And landing a spot on Costco shelves. First of all, that's insane.

Speaker B: Costco's awesome. First of all, Costco's awesome. And yeah, no, we were just negotiating for a while. It wasn't even the full price point situation. It was just our product wasn't getting on shelf like at the moment. It took many conversations and uh, then we were faced with an opportunity. Was like, okay, well how can we prove ourselves? How can we show that members of Costco might want our product? Costco Canada. And you know, we were given this opportunity to do the roadshow. We pitched them on the road show and they're like, you could do the roadshow. And, and what we asked them was, you know, how much do we ought to sell? Like, you know, how much do we gotta, uh, to do? And for us it was, we want to break their record of the previous in Costco Canada. Um, what was the roadshow record? And we did it. And the way we did it was not, was not because, um, you know, we just had, we wanted to do it. We did everything in our power to make sure that we were going to make this happen. We told stories on social media where people got to see it in live time, how well we were doing, come visit us, come hang out. We made it fun. We got the press involved, we got, we got members excited. We made it an experience. We brought energy. Energy is a currency. No matter where you are, people want to feel something. And what we ended up doing was we had our family come work with us, we had friends come work. We had, we had, we built a community around it. And what it was, was people wanted to see us succeed. They wanted midday M squares at Costco to be selling there because that was a big win for everyone. And we ended up, you know, blowing past that, that, that, that number at the time. And we did four different roadshows at the time. I think was four. And Costco is awesome. Like they're, they're awesome partners, they're awesome folks. Like, you know, we got our chance. I think it was January 2025, we started selling there. I believe it was that date and, um, it's been a hell of a ride. They, They've been awesome. We've worked very closely with them and their members are incredible. So, you know, anyone that. With that Costco. That's listening. This is like shout out to you guys. You guys. You know, that was a big moment in our, in our journey. And it also shows how sometimes you gotta get creative. You can't just take no and say, okay, it's over. How do you get creative to de risk or how do you get creative to, you know, show that this is going to work and, and not be discouraged, but be excited and fired up. And we were. And you know, I'm grateful to be part. Grateful, uh, to work with them. They are incredible. And you know, I was just at Costco last week in Canada visiting and I saw like in carts, I saw a bunch of midday scores in different cards and I just smiled. That's awesome because I remember the days when we were looking at him saying one day we would be in here and again, tell your story and get your community to be involved and show the retailers you want to partner. You actually want to partner. This is a collaboration. It's not just you selling a product on a shelf. And, uh, I think that's how you build a successful partnership.

Speaker A: No, that's awesome. For anybody who's ever tried to get into retail, it is not. It doesn't just come down to price point. There's a lot of variables that go into it. And sometimes you're having these meetings for years and years and years. We've had meetings with Walmart where, you know, we got in in the first pass, but then we've also had meetings with somebody like a Costco. We were talking, uh, we're still talking to them. Uh, and it's been, you know, three, four years now of us talking to them. But that's exactly what, like, what you did was so time, it takes time. And what you did was so outside of. Of the norm. There's, uh, you have to stand out not only on shelf, but in just present general. Yeah.

Speaker B: Presence. You need to be top of mind. And you know, for us, like, we needed that roadshow to work. And road shows are, by the way, a great tool. It's a great experience, you know, for any brand. You know, you get to sell your products and sample your products to members that are legitimately Costco members. So they get to experience your brand and see if they like it. And you could see it and you know, uh, after every day, how well you've done and, and it gives data, it gives a real data point and it's an experience. You could bring your brand to life when, what other opportunity do you have to really bring your brand to fully to life in a retailer or in, in their warehouse? It's insane. So it's a great experience. The Costco roadshow. And I recommend any brand that's trying to get in there is to, you know, partner with them, to do the road shows if you can. And then secondly, it's just like, you're right, like it doesn't matter if it's, if it's Target, it doesn't matter if it's Whole Foods. It's, it's. Every retailer is also different. Understand what they want and what they need and how you can, can work with them and have that channel strategy specifically to that or like retail strategy specifically to them. It's not one size fits all. And once you understand that, you can get more creative, you can be a little more nimble, you could try different things. And um, again, no, doesn't mean that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. No. Yeah, it can be not yet or coming soon, like, and you need to use your momentum and your energy to just keep going and, and learn. Like listen and learn. Like, they might not want your category today, a retailer, but it might be hot in two years where they want. And you've already been in communication, you've built that trust, you've been respectful, you've shown them, you know, and then they're ready to roll with you. And it's like, let's, let's build. And that's where I think, like, it's important to be long term thinking rather than short term and, and just, just be positive. Good energy, always.

Speaker A: No, absolutely. Let's dig into that a little bit deeper. I like how you said, um, you know, not every retailer is the same. And that's like, when I think about that, I'm thinking, you know, there's, there's so many channels, there's FDM and then there's drug and then there's grocery and whatever it is for us product, when we put it in an FDM retailer, it just moves kind of on its own. We do, we do market towards it, but it doesn't need as much effort as something like a, uh, grocery channel for us. And again, that's, that's brand specific. So it's going to be different for everybody. I think my question here is when you're in that store. How are you moving units off the shelf if they're not moving naturally? And like, how do you guys approach it?

Speaker B: I think this comes down to a couple strategies. So traditional marketing is critical at retail. And I, uh, only started to see that, you know, over the last couple of years. That means like price, promo strategy, visibility of your packaging and your boxes, how they show up and placement in the actual merchandise, placement in the actual store.

Speaker A: So that's critical.

Speaker B: So you have to have a, a team or a person dedicated to that. Then we use an influencer strategy. So we work with creators across North America that are specific to retailers. So like, you'll find that, let's say they do a haul at these grocery stores, we'll have them, you know, go in and show where the actual product is merchandised. You know, when we have a new innovation there, they'll talk about it. They'll tell their community, this is my favorite snack that they've been eating, by the way, for months, if not a year before. So it's authentic, it's not some bs. And then they'll talk about the retail experience where it's available. So we get direct traffic, um, via their communities. And then last but not least is obviously, you know, content, you know, via paid paid media or, you know, organic content of creating storylines, uh, at these retailers. Again, showing where it is telling the story sometimes of how we got in there or talking about the, you know, the big moment of the experience of how proud we are. Again, that way it's not so direct selling, it's more, this is a cool story. I want to support them. Oh, it's available at this retailer. I'm going to go buy it. So we did a combine of those three and it works. And look, I really do believe in also investing in the retailers. So some of the retailers have retail media, so they have their own loyalty programs, their own stuff. It works. Why does it work for us? Because it allows us to get front row placements in places we wouldn't have front row placements. So because we're refrigerated, it's not always in the front of the store. Sometimes in the dairy section, sometimes in the produce section, sometimes it's hmr. So it's inconsistent. But if we invest in the retail media and their online platforms, we could put the product directly in the front with advertisement dollars where it allows us to have the front row visibility that we've always wanted to have. Right, so those are the four pillars, I would say, uh, is the strategy on three or four pillars That I would say is strategy on us winning retail because getting into store means nothing if you can't move the product right. If the velocities aren't strong, you know you're going to get kicked out over time. Like uh, it's such valuable real estate, they're not going to let you stay there. So it's your duty to get as creative as possible and also do what works best for you. And I think obviously different products and different categories have different ways to sell in and sell out and all that stuff. But for at least for ours, refrigerated snacking, visibility and placement is a big thing. So how can we get everything to be driven as attention to that? And um, we do that.

Speaker A: No, that's uh, very well put. I like the uh, like the bit on retail media because I think when we got into Walmart and Walmart has a huge retail media arm, uh, their Walmart Connect platform, we were getting so much bad advice from people who build their brands 10, 20 years ago who are like, retail media is a scam. Don't invest in it, don't do anything. But if you don't, and, and we've done the incrementality test on this where we have not spent on retail media and then we will spend on retail media. It is such a night and day difference on what our numbers look like month to month. So yeah, for anybody who's uh, kind of contemplating whether they should spend on their retail media arm 110, it's so worth it.

Speaker B: It's so worth it. And if you're good at it, you could really do good things. And like even like another platform that we've invested in that's doing really well for us is Instacart is getting trial. You know, it's a way for us to get trial that we needed. Right. So you know, once you have product market fit, you want as many people trying your product as possible because once you have that, the repurchase should happen if you have those, those pillars of product market fit. And you just need to get, I call it bars to belly. So getting the squares and bellies for other people, it's other things. But we do everything in our power to do that and, and supplement that with brand awareness that's not directed to retail sales specifically. So building the brand purse, the personal brands, driving the content machine that creates the emotional connection and fandom, uh, that scales over time as well.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well said. All right, let's move on to our final question before we get into the rapid Fire round, um, from a condo kitchen to 10,000 plus stores, including a stretch where revenue reportedly dropped from 1 million to 400k. Now this happens to every brand. If you have a brand, it is not, it is not just rainbows and sunshine all the time. You are going to hit a roadblock. You are going to hit adversity. When revenue cratered like that, what did you actually cut and what did you protect?

Speaker B: I believe that that was the moment we went from. That was like four years ago. We were, uh, three and a half years ago whenever we did our two package change. So we went from two bars in a pack to one pack to one bar one square. And we actually raised prices because our supply chain. So we did a 30% increase and it must have been three and a half, four years ago. And we did a 30% increase and shrunk the product. And it was a question of survival. If we didn't do it, uh, we probably wouldn't be in business day because our supplies were out of control. We were going to lose a ton of money. And I'll never forget we were doing like a million two a month at the time or it was a million to million two a month and everything was smooth. And then we did this change and the UPC code was too small on the pack and wasn't scanning at retail. So all these changes plus another huge issue, upc, uh, scanning means that they're not tracking the report. If they, if they go out of stock, they're not going to know, right, because they're putting as a grocery item instead of, instead of a midday square. So it was just people were filling it in saying grocery items sold instead of scanning the numbers, they were too small. So we went down like cratered. And this happened also during COVID same thing. We cratered, uh, you know, really quickly because we lost our retail sales. But you have two options those moments. Number one is sit still in action and number two is action. And we just took action and we solved the problem. And then we brought it back up over the next couple months back to what it was in both situations in the COVID situation and in this UPC code and shrinked product, sorry, uh, one square, you know, transition. But you know, panic doesn't work. So, uh, the big lesson from it is not like, it's not like any strategy specifically. The only strategy lesson that was was create action and let that compound and create that momentum so it moves forward. And you might be wrong, but take the bet. And we took the bet and ended up being One of the best bets we've taken. And now we've grown the business tremendously since that time. But I'll never forget, like there was one day I felt the grievance, I was like, oh, we might go bust. And then the next day I was like, okay, enough with the crying. Let's move. Let's actually create a, let's create movement. And we did. And the team got amped up, they got excited, they got fired up, they created a momentum and an energy that was like, like we are in problem solving mode and we are going to get this done. And that conviction, you know, spread through the retailers, spread through everything. And you know, even though we had some, some negativity for a bit, it was okay because we eventually saw the turn happen. And that's when the team even got even more apt because then they start to realize we're going to survive.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, um, yeah, but this happens to every business.

Speaker A: Y.

Speaker B: The good, the bad, the uglies.

Speaker D: Just.

Speaker B: People don't talk about it. But, but entrepreneurship is full of. I believe the most successful entrepreneurs, in my opinion, are the ones that can withstand the most amount of pressure and pain and hardship and still get back up. And it's not a two year success story. It's a 10, uh, 20 year overnight success story. Right. And that's just a ton of pain and a ton of those moments where you decide to stand back up and keep going.

Speaker A: No, that's really well said. I think people have this, um, idealized kind of perception of entrepreneurship and that, you know, you see one or two unicorns every now and then and who m sold after being in business for a year or two. And I like to tell people that, you know, pretend that doesn't exist because it really doesn't. This is a long haul. This is 5, 10, 20 years, um, so hard. And within those 20 years, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna lose one month, maybe $600,000 in revenue and you gotta figure it out. Um, I like how you said, you know, you gotta to, you got to do stuff. You can't just sit there and play victim. Um, you know, if it won't work, it won't work. There's, and there's no use in it, you know, you sitting there still thinking, you know, oh, everyone's against me, or this, this happened because of bad luck or whatever. You can, you can flip that luck around because you can, you make your own luck.

Speaker B: You can only control what you can control. Cocoa Cris Cocoa Crisis is a great example Our products were all cocoa based. It was our largest input out of nowhere or not nowhere, but a couple two and a half years ago, I believe it was cocoa prices shot through the roof to 100 year high. Our largest input went to 100 year high. It quadrupled. We had two options. Raise prices to survive this, which we already have, premium products. So raising prices didn't seem part of the equation. Or innovate outside of chocolate. Completely get out of chocolate. We chose innovation. And it took two years and we developed our first new product that had no cocoa. Uh, after six years of being in business, there's five and a half years being business and being a chocolate bar functional chocolate snack company. We launched our no bread peanut butter jelly products which are brand new. It took two years to make. And now we have the process done, the strategies done. We can now innovate quickly. Every five to six months a new flavor of this same line and it's now our number one seller. And the reason being is it was innovation. It forced our company to think different and it's a better product in my opinion. And it's selling like hotcakes. And we didn't not focus on the cocoa. And now the cocoa's coming back down so we're getting the tailwind, which is nice. But we took action. We didn't panic, we didn't say this sucks. It was out of our control. What was in our control is we had a, we have our own manufacturing plant, we have a brilliant team and we have data that we've, we've bought on what people like. We took that and we said what can we create with the constraints we have? And we did it. Two years, patience, execution, hardship. And then we launched the product and it was successful. If we raise prices, we'd probably be in a very different situation right now. Maybe I wouldn't even be on a conversation with you.

Speaker A: No, um, I mean just that's perfectly said. And all it takes is belief. Like, um, you said you got to take a risk here and there, but you got to believe in that risk and you got to go execute it

Speaker B: and surround yourself with great people. Like, you know, we built a great team that, that, that they're smarter than my partners and I, you know, we started three of us, now we're 55 of us or so and they're, they're way smarter than us. And like, yeah, but you know what, it allows us to do our greatness and let them do their greatness. When you combine that, it creates a, a stronger force and I know there's this cheesy saying, one plus one, uh, plus one should equal, uh, is three, but should it equal greater than three? And that's what you. When you surround yourself with good people, it's greater than three, right? Because it creates that extra compound effect or that extra serendipitous effect effect.

Speaker A: Oh, 100%, Jake. That was, uh. That's very well said. Let's move over to our rapid fire round. Are you ready for this?

Speaker B: Hit me.

Speaker A: I got a couple questions that aren't on here that are just selfish questions for myself, but we'll start with these. So if Midday Squares had a mascot, what would it be and what would its personality be?

Speaker B: I would love it to be a, A peanut. Because peanuts have become, uh, a significant part of our production. If you look at it, we have the peanut butter chocolate square. We have the crunchy peanut butter chocolate square. And now we have our PBJ lines. No, uh, bread PBJ lines. So the peanuts becoming this, this hot item that came in, that's. That's positive. That's good vibes. And we'd make a cartoon character and just like a dancing peanut, you know? Um, yeah, literally. Literally. We have one on our package now, and I'm going to show it to you on our pbj. I don't have it on me, but you can put it in the, in the show notes or something. It's literally the whole. His name's Chip and he's a legend. And he's the peanut.

Speaker A: I love that. That's awesome.

Speaker C: All right.

Speaker A: Biggest waste of money for an early stage brand.

Speaker B: I think the biggest waste of money is. I think the most important thing is to build your foundation before you do big partnerships with a massive creator or a massive. Some sort of someone that has a massive following. I think that comes later on. That's really strong. Uh, I think at the beginning, build a foundation on your brand that you could do at an inexpensive cost, which is create your own content. Create, you know, create your, your. Your raison d' or, your why, and then go partner with someone to help amplify that. But don't spend the money. I know so many people just want to get people's con. They want to get people talking about their product right off the bat. But that's a lot of capital for these partnerships. Especially if you don't have a foundation or you don't have distribution, it's going

Speaker A: to be very difficult to win no 100%, I think. I mean, we made mistakes in the beginning where we were is our like first year in business. And after six months, um, we were making a little money, so we started splurging on a bunch of these influencers. And it's like, yeah, it didn't, it didn't work.

Speaker B: But it works when you have the distribution. It works when you have, you know, a foundation and it amplifies. And look, we partner with a ton of amazing creators that are so amazing today. But when we first started, you know, we did one, I remember, I'll never forget. Like, no one even knew who we were. So like, there wasn't clarity. It didn't, it didn't work. We did a second one and then you realize like, it's not the creator's fault. No, it's, it's just that the brand's not ready for it.

Speaker A: Yep, 100%. What's one brand you admire that you wish you built?

Speaker B: I really admire Nike. And the reason why I admire Nike is they took a shoe which more or less is a commodity in my opinion, and they were able to build something, a feeling around it of, you know, that you could achieve greatness against all odds. And they did it through powerful human stories of some of the greatest athletes and ever to exist. Right. So I just feel like Nike, when I look at it, I feel like I could, I could honestly break walls. I could achieve anything. And that's on a commodity you can imagine. So Phil Knight and, and the team that built that and continues to build it, it's just, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty damn impressive.

Speaker A: No? Absolutely. Nike is very impressive. All right, this one's just for me. Costco hot dogs or Costco pizza?

Speaker B: A hot dogs. No brainer.

Speaker A: Me too.

Speaker B: It's so good. It's so good. And I don't know if you guys, you ever tried the Costco like, like fro, like ice ah, cream, like uh, the, the vanilla ice cream.

Speaker A: I got to get back in there now.

Speaker B: It's good.

Speaker A: Is it good? Everything there is good.

Speaker B: Everything. Costco does it, Costco does things great. Um, it's just unreal, honestly.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And it's good value.

Speaker A: That's the best part.

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Speaker C: Now let's get back to the episode.

Speaker A: Jake, you've been here before. You uh, know we, we love to leave our listeners with one final chew something that they can take back with them. Uh, what's one one one piece of advice that you would give the give, uh, the listeners today day.

Speaker B: So if I could draw you two graphs to the listeners. If you could see this or you can imagine it, I'm going to give you two options that we all have access to. You and I both have access to this 24 7, 365. You can make average decisions every day of your life. You could take, you know, literally average input. So follow the herd, play it safe, take no risks, do it like your competitors, do it like everybody else. And statistically you're going to have average output. It's going to be a straight line of output. It's going to go up over time, but it's slow growth. Let's do the second graph now. You go to. You make an on average decision every day of your life. You live the life through your own lens. Taking risks, trusting your gut fault, not following the herd, literally believing in what you believe in and actually swinging with it statistically. If you do that, every decision you make will now be on average. It'll be high points and low points and you connect it to zigzag that zigzag has failing points or quotations, failures on the bottom. But if you look at those not as failures but as learnings, as uh, experiences that you the courage that most the world will never ever experience because they were too scared, then you've put more tools in your toolbox, and then you have massive outlier outcomes on the top that are huge wins. So if you have those two options every day, why would you not choose to make on average decisions every day of your life when you're guaranteed an on average outcome? And if you want to win in any game, especially entrepreneurship, you need to be making on average decisions every day because this journey is extremely difficult and the odds are stacked tremendously against us. So that's my piece of advice. Choose on average every time you have that option. Wow.

Speaker A: Chew on that. If you want more from us, follow us on Twitter, follow us on Instagram, follow us on TikTok and check out the website. Chew on this IO.