The First 90 Days as a CFO: No Induction Period in Private Equity

Speaker A: Today my guest on the Chat CFO podcast is Jaz Burstyn. I've known Jaz for about 15 years now and she is currently CFO an exponent backed travel business called GoCity. Jaz has built her career working for some of Britain's best loved brands including TK Maxx, Domino's and Tui in listed environments before getting her first CFO role in a private equity backed business. Today we discuss the challenges of moving from a PLC to a private equity backed environment. Why Ebit Star and Cash are as important as each other and also some of the softer skills involved with being a world class cfo. Morning Jaz, thanks for coming in.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Um, everyone says be careful what you wish for and um, you know, not sure what that sort of CFO role actually looks like. Um, tell us about it. What do they get wrong?

Speaker B: What do they get wrong? Um, I'll tell you what they get wrong and what it involves is the CFO role is really complex and multifaceted. You are not just talking about numbers, it is beyond the numbers. It is the strategic planning, it's the tangible value creation you bring and then whilst at the same time navigating like operational challenges on a daily basis. And I think that element of it is probably underestimated. Um, what I'd also say is the buck stops with you. You have to make decisions quick and sometimes with limited information. There is no procrastination around oh, I see how it goes. Or I'll mull that over. You have to be able to be bold. Um, the other thing that I would say is your relationship with the CEO is uh, really, really important. The pair of you are working together every day, debating stuff, discussing stuff, making decisions and you have to be able to hold hands on those decisions. So it's important that you like them and that you can work with them. And um, it's really important that you take on that responsibility that you're the, the co pilot of the business and earn uh, that trust.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. How do you, how do you do that in the first kind of 90 days I think.

Speaker B: Um, so earning trust and building that relationship is through listening lots, asking lots of questions, but also not being frightened about sharing your opinion, um, and your ideas. Especially in the private equity background, I think it matters to get on the pitch quickly and start delivering results quickly and understanding the business. Don't even think the word induction period even featured in this private equity background. Whereas at PLCs I've been in before, there's a good three months in, six months in, you're still new, you're still learning there. You don't have the bandwidth or the capacity to do that here. So get on the pitch quickly, work in a collaborative way, but listen as well.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Um, and so you've been building towards this CFO role for a long time now. Tell us a bit about the, the journey to getting there.

Speaker B: Um. Uh. Well I'll be honest, hard work. Let's be, let's be honest about that. It has been hard work. It has required a lot of resilience and focus. I've had to really work on my self development over the years. I've had to seek a lot of feedback, I've had to receive a lot of unwanted feedback and knockbacks. Um and as long as you take them on and grow for them from the better um then you sort of mature as a leader. I think that's been a big part of my personal journey. Um, the other thing over the years that I've learned to master is articulation and storytelling. So being good at FPA or commercial finance or financial controls alone just won't do it. So really had to work on that forward narrative. Um and I think the other thing I've also um, worked on and over the years and become quite um, adept at is building high performing teams quickly so that you start to deliver through the team and therefore you've got the bandwidth to do the strategic side of things and the influence inside of things

Speaker A: and what any sort of key learnings on building high, high performing teams over the years?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. In terms of your hunch will be there from, from day one you will know and, but then spend like a few, well I would say uh, in private equity probably a month or two in PLC probably a bit longer. Then spend that time sort of taking it all in developing your plan, resetting your target operating model. Get advice from the stakeholders about what service they are getting from finance, how they perceive finance, work out where, where the weaknesses are and then go for it. Don't sit on it for too long because if you don't have a high performing team that and that is you developing that high performing team as well. It will impact your own delivery but it will also impact the business as well.

Speaker A: And is it, has it changed at all in 2026 in terms of what high performing finance team looks like and what you're hiring for?

Speaker B: I think so. I think um, there's a lot more on um, the data and the analysis side of things and um, being able to be more of a self starter, um, be able to really draw out the so what, you know, sort of management reporting doesn't really cut it anymore. It's like what, what is the real so what in this, what analysis are you using? What data have you, you know, have you used to um, come up with your decisions or your recommendations? And I also think some of the softer skills are really required these days as well. So there's a lot more on the how, not just the what. And I think the high performing finance teams need to have that level of uh, softer skills influencing um, the mindset with that then to co pilot the business as opposed to be service providers. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: So just going back to the, the journey of becoming a cfo and I mean we were discussing earlier, you know it's this is a tough job this afternoon. You've got to go and speak to, to some banks and CEOs, a wide range of stakeholders, probably at the drop of a hat, what, where does the drive come from to actually want to do the job? And yeah, tell us about that. Uh, a brief interruption to today's show. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Unity Advisory, a CFO advisory firm. Um, built for high consequence decisions, independent, independent, AI enabled and laser focused on outcomes rather than hours. To find out more, head to unity advisory.com now back to the episode.

Speaker B: I tell you what, I'll go back to the beginning about where does the drive come from? Because I would say it's different now from what it was early on. Um, I think what drives drive is actually quite complicated, isn't it? So you, it's made up of a number of factors. So 1 is your biological wiring, 2 is your personal experiences, 3 your social environment and then, then layer on top of that where your personal passions lie. So I think it's different for different people and that those elements fuse together differently as well for different people. So early on in my career my drive came from a different place. I, I um, am the child of first generation immigrants. I um, grew up in Southall, which is outer west London. I had parents that were factory workers that can't read or write. Um, so from quite early on um, we had to work really hard to be able to just get simple things and I don't just mean monetary things. I was in circles where we didn't have networks, we didn't have contacts, we didn't have resources and amongst people that had a lot of uh, future and financial instability. And so for me I took that all as um, with hard work and resilience and focus. You can make things happen. And I had, I think, reflecting back on it, a sense of urgency to build some stability, whether it's financial stability or environmental stability. And I think that gave me a level of drive and tenacity about going out and getting stuff. Um, and as time has gone on, my drive now is less about, um, achieving that stability in achieving a stable environment. It's more about what can I do for others now? How can I put my experiences, not just my work experiences, but my life experiences, to the greater good? Um, how can I continue to grow? Because I am very curious and I, I do get bored easily. So how do I continue to grow? Um, but I'd probably say my biggest drive now is being a role model to my two daughters.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Brilliant. And, um, what do you, what are you most proud of so far, do you think? Sort of career wise?

Speaker B: Career wise? I'm. I'm proud of probably how I've grown as a person and as a leader, uh, and how I've had to navigate through, well, some challenging times. Like I, I worked. I started working in the early 2000 in finance. So that itself came along with certain challenges about fitting in or, you know, um, unconscious biases and those sorts of things. And, you know, navigating through that, uh, and uh, bringing up two children at the same time is something I'm really proud of.

Speaker A: Yeah. Did you. And at the time, did you could feel those unconscious biases and they were barriers that you had to get through?

Speaker B: I think they were barriers to get through. I don't think I felt it at the time. I think, um, our awareness, my awareness and probably everyone else's awareness wasn't on that side of things. Like there's now a heightened awareness to, um, equality or how we treat people or how we talk to people and being more inclusive. I think back then I wasn't so conscious of it. I just tried harder and harder. Um, and now I can articulate that, actually. Yeah, that was there and that. And that probably wasn't right.

Speaker A: And how now you're in the, the private equity world. Um, I mean, some might say that is almost the ultimate sort of meritocracy. Is that something that you've experienced so far?

Speaker B: Definitely. So private equity is about results. Fast, um, rapid scaling, cash generation, um, ultimately value creation. Right. Um, and there isn't the time for some of these, uh, too much analysis on, you know, how, how you've gone about it. I mean, the how is really important in everyday life anyhow, and how you come across and collaborate and having emotional intelligence. But um, it definitely is. If I'm in a room, as long as I'm able to talk about the topics in hand with substance, um, and being able to navigate through the challenges, bring some strategic foresight in, I think that's ultimately what would count. I probably could walk in wearing a bin liner as long as I'm talking with some sort of substance and sort of forward thinking.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And did you obviously coming into that sort of first PE CFO role, um, not, not that long ago, did you, did you feel kind of any, any difference sort of coming into that room and doing that role for the first time and as you said earlier, the kind of the buck stopping with you,

Speaker B: did I feel any different? Um, compared to what previous roles? I, I felt um, you're quite exposed when you, you're especially as a first time CFO as well, you're quite exposed and you can sometimes feel like um, a lack of support. Even though the support is all there. It's because you know the buck stops with you and you haven't got months or even weeks to prove yourself. You haven't got months or weeks to mull over something. You do need to take everything in really quickly, disseminate into something useful, come up with ideas and then put them into place. Um, I didn't have six months to um, restructure my team, embed a commercial and FP and a team. I literally within two, three weeks had my straw man out, took it through the stakeholders, got their support.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And was sort of working on it straight away. So yeah, I did feel um, a sense of exposure and urgency, but in a positive way.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: In a liberating way actually.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I think the other thing I'm really interested in because the topic comes up on a weekly basis with uh, your peer group and others looking to make a transition from um, PLC environment, uh, to private equity. And it's often talked about that it's, it's very different. Tell us what you know. You spent a good chunk of your career in, in the PLC environment. What, what are the differences? What's it really been like in, in your experience?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean you're right. I spent 23 years in the PLC environment. Um, and um, that. So there are the obvious differences. Obviously PE is about rapid scaling cash generation, preparing the business for exit. PLCs are about long term shareholder value, um, managing huge amounts of external stakeholders, compliance, governance. Right. Um, but ultimately driving long term value for the shareholders. So there's the obvious differences and Then in some cases the size as well, depending on the PE and the plc. But what I'll uh, I'll answer that question with a lens of is it really that different to working and what is required? So in a PLC it is really fast paced. I mean I come from a uh, tourism, hospitality, retail environment. It is extremely fast paced and you have to make decisions really quickly because the environment moves on and the customers move on. And if you don't respond and evolve, you'll lose out. Um, you have to navigate so many stakeholders you have to influence, you have to use data and analysis, be able to sum that up, turn it into a narrative and draw out the so what to make decisions. You learn to be really hot on your controls and compliance which is super useful as a CFO in a private equity backed um, business. And, and as a result of that as well as you also have to focus ORI on quarterly earnings. So I know we talk about long term value creation but you're working to each quarter and what you're going to be telling the city and what your earnings were in that quarter and what was that year on year. So there are actually quite a few similarities. So I would say the difference isn't as big as people talk about. Mhm. So all those things are super value, super valuable in a private equity business.

Speaker A: Yeah. So this, this sort of almost glass ceiling that you often come across as you must have private equity experience to do private equity CFO role. Yeah, not, not so important.

Speaker B: For me, I would say it's not so important. My ask is of recruiters out there to make it less important. So I, I always wanted to eventually work for a smaller business, um, and get into private equity. Um, but I would often get recruiters and I hear others saying it to me saying no, you have to have private equity experience now. You have to have ticked all of these things. My ask is, can recruiters see all those things that I just listed out that you get in PLC environments and you pick up influencing skills, fast paced skills, decision making skills and actually see how valuable that can be in um, the private equity business?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I might be biased here. I'm not sure it's the recruiters that are the, the blocker. I think for the most part investors are risk averse by nature. Uh, they want to tick boxes, they want people who kind of tick that box and been there and done it. I think our lives would be much more straightforward if hirers, investors and boards were more uh, open to those coming from a PLC environment and Acknowledging that the skills are transferable and you know, controls experience is going to be valuable in that environment. So, um, I would say, I think, yeah, of course you, you'll have a, probably a headhunter being a bit of a blocker, saying, well the board and the investor have said this is a must have criteria. Um, I think where, where we, where we can do it is to try and influence and say, look, you know, I think you're missing out on some great talent here. I think you are missing out on diversity, cognitive diversity. Um, you should consider this left field quotes left field option alongside your tick box list and, and see.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think there's a role to play in terms of influencing or educating because it's actually my skills that I picked up at uh, PLC's uh, that have been absolutely crucial in this first year in this CFO role here. The creation and the execution of the change agenda changed the entire target operating model of the finance team embedded a commercial and FP&A team, multiple initiatives. We're working on, um, how you use data more. I wouldn't have been able to do that had I not picked up those experiences. Um, and actually what does good look like as well has been really appreciated, I think.

Speaker A: I mean the other key thing probably worth noting and it's, it's talked about a bit, but it's all. It's not always the finance person's strongest suit is the network. Maintaining the network, utilizing that, you know, personal recommendation is one of the more powerful things out there beyond headhunters, etc. Trying to crack through to that first CFO role. Um, and I think that's still not, you know, we're all busy in our day jobs, but actually maintaining that network and doing the bit of an icky phrase for a lot of finance professionals is networking, personal brand, all this sort of stuff.

Speaker B: I'm terrible at networking. Um, it just doesn't come naturally to me. So, you know, I come across as a social, bubbly person. But that whole networking, I, I really struggle with it. And interesting enough I thought it was just me, but when I would speak to other senior finance people or CEOs I've worked for, they've also said that they, it's hard for them. Um, but I think you're right. I think for me it's been about. I've maintained really good relationships with everyone I have worked for. Finance is a real, really small world and, um, people go on to work in other places. They hire people that they've worked with previously or they May seek to someone, do you know someone that might be suitable for this. So having those relationships and maintaining them and you know, just being a good person, um, it just goes a long way.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think the confusion often the, it feels like people still think you need to go to a crappy old hotel room and people are handing out business cards and things. And it's, it's not that it's what you said, it's keeping in touch with the people that you spend a lot of time with, um, paying things forward, making connections yourself, helping other people out and then that karma, whatever you want to call it, coming back to you down the line. I'm a big believer in that. Really?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I agree and I think um, I touched upon it um, earlier about my background and where I grew up. But I actually found that relationships was the thing that just kept that going, you know that opened the doors for me. Um, that um, meant people wanted to work with me or have me in their team. It's just really, really important.

Speaker A: There's, there's a lot of focus on EBITDA as a, a number in, in private equity backed businesses. Um, what is your. But I think we discussed before your view is cash is probably really the important thing.

Speaker B: They're both important. What I would say is that EBITDA uh, can be over indexed. So cash ultimately is the health of the business. It is a measure of the money coming in after you have to pay capital capex or interest payments which can be high, um, and then other things like tax and everything else. So is it any different from how you're running your house? Money comes in and then money has to go out and then what are you left with at the end? That's your true wealth. Um, so I think it is really, really important and I know a lot of businesses irrelevant of their structure, whether they're PE or PLC do have targets on cash, um, um, embedded in because they want people to be also looking at that, managing working capital as best as possible so that you can do these um, intra month movements where you have to pay all your suppliers, you have to pay all your people. Have you got enough trading money coming in to cover those off and enough coming in so that you can keep reinvesting back into the business. So yeah, it's uh, it's a key measure and it's something that in the business I'm in and the role I'm in that I look at every week and I have a team looking at it every day.

Speaker A: Yeah. Which must be in in recent times in climate extremely difficult with the volatility that we've seen, geopolitical, um, interest rates, etc. Etc. It's just made it even harder.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Um, It's a tough 2026, um, for a lot of businesses with the current climate and everything else. Um, but even outside of that, the cash side of it is you know, up there alongside ebitda. I mean when as a private equity business you will manage your exit, they will look at your cash generation and you know, and your debt profile matters as well.

Speaker A: Mhm. Um, do you worry about um, the skills you gained earlier on in your career including cash management and sort of being um, very much into the weeds and into the data that now in a world of, of AI and people trying to hire less people and do things with smaller teams that how are we uh, building the future CFOs, where are they coming from? Um, given the world we're in now,

Speaker B: we have to move with the world and therefore, you know, you asked earlier about how's the developing high performing teams, how has that evolved over time that, that AI using data, ah, being able to have analytical skills is so important, um, moving forward. Do I worry about it? No. Do. Am I conscious that it may change how we go about doing things? It may mean less people in the future? Uh, no, I don't worry about it. I, I worry about it enough to know that we have to move with those times and we have to, or what AI can do to for us as a business and how it will change the profile of my team and making sure I've got the right people in and building the right skills for the future.

Speaker A: Um, but surely it means, it means smaller finance teams in the future?

Speaker B: I think, I think it. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Um, and I think not just AI, but all sorts of automation, um, type offerings out there. So if I go um, back to basics. Yeah, I think there's a lot more that can be done on even my AP and AR teams in terms of invoice processing and reconciliations. They can be advanced dramatically with automation and it will mean less heads. But I think you then need different types of heads. So the analytical heads, the strategic heads, the what do we do with this data and create uh, operational and strategic actions off the back of that. I think that side of my team is definitely growing and in previous roles teams definitely growing around the data scientist aspect of it.

Speaker A: M. Yeah. Um, what are the, what are the other things that you wish people had told you before taking on that CFO

Speaker B: Role I was really lucky. So over the years I've had lots of feedback as I mentioned earlier, and therefore in that guidance about what does it mean, what does it involve? Um, so I think I came into it with my eyes pretty wide open. But that doesn't mean there are things in there that you thought, oh well, people had said that but. Oh actually really, um, and I would say one of, one of the things up there is it's lonely. M. And I don't. I think you have to be comfortable with that. You. It. It's lonely. The buck stops with you. You have to make bold decisions and often with limited information to be able to work at the pace that you know that the, the private equity business needs you to and you have to be comfortable with that. Whereas in the past I had working in bigger businesses, plenty of peers that you could chew the fat over or you'd have a bit of backup on, or you'd have a third, fourth opinion about or um, and then you'd all sort of hold hands and make that decision together. Whereas here, you know, you can. I can spend a lot of time on my own having to mull over things, come up with ideas, put them into place.

Speaker A: Yeah. And um, obviously there's a confidentiality element, but you can, you, I guess you can still lean on external mentors who are or have been CFOs and have had big roles and also your kind of operating partner relationship as well. That's quite valuable.

Speaker B: Definitely. And I use that a lot. Um, so you know, um, we talked about earlier about do, do you have to have ticked all the things to go into private equity? Have you built up, um, the skills in the PLC to be able to transfer across? Yes. But there will be always things that you don't know and you have to be able to have that self awareness of knowing that you don't know that and humble enough to go out and get advice. So I often will uh, text the operating partner at our private equity house and say, are you free? Just wanted to chat through something or. And you have to do that, you have to drive that yourself. Um, but there is plenty of support, um, from the private equity house, plenty of support with other businesses that they have as well in their portfolio that you can read across to. Um, and it's a matter of being able to just be proactive and go out and get that support.

Speaker A: Yeah. For aspiring CFOs coming into that lot. I'm interested to know how, how do you balance sort of being humble enough and curious enough to Say look, what do you think about this? I appreciate your opinion. Uh, but also I guess some people kind of wanting to be in that scene going, no, I, I have got this, I've got, I've got the, I've got most of the answers. I, I am the, the CFO here.

Speaker B: But I don't think being in that seat involves saying, thinking you know it all. I think it involves uh, leadership, thought leadership. But that doesn't mean you have to know it all.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: And I think um, I mean being honest, that would be bordering arrogant, wouldn't it be if you sat in, in that seat thinking you knew it all. Aspiring CFOs, um, don't, don't think for one minute you have to know it all and have all the answers. You have to have the ability to work out the answers. You have to have the ability to join the dots, um, and come up with ideas. Uh, but yeah, absolutely, one of the credentials of it would be to stay open and constantly uh, grow and learn and adjust yourself.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think um, we've had that discussion a lot recently that um, you had a, an IQ world. Um, sort of originally. Then it all became about the EQ, the, the influencing bit and now also the IQ bits less in, arguably less important because everyone's got 10,000 IQ with AI.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And now we're at ah, um, CQ is another one that's popped up now. Curiosity question being the important one to just be always learning, always curious every single day as probably the most important thing in any role that you're in now.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I think curiosity is really, really important. Um, and I think again when you talked about building high performing teams, you need people that are curious. Um, because there's a large aspect of finance that is technical, you can learn that. You do need to have the IQ to be able to learn it and retain it. Obviously that's a given. But you can learn the technical side of things. The things that need developing is the eq. Um, but I think the cq, which is new, what I've heard today, I think there's an element of that, ah, that's in your biological wiring as well, to use that word again, I think, I think you are naturally a curious person or not.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I think the environments you then go into can stimulate that curiosity or the uh, the environment you're in may mean you need to constantly be raising the bar and you have to work on it. But natural curiosity is definitely something I think that comes with you and I do think it's Important in these roles.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think you notice it that some people have it kind of naturally. Um, although the thing I was reading the other day, which is maybe hopeful for, for some people, this is actually one. Yeah. Maybe IQ can build. Eq, you can certainly work on. I think it did say CQ is a bit like a muscle as well. You can actually train yourself to kind of constantly be going. Right, hang on, am I questioning why am I asking how do I do this? And um, I guess that uh, is the nice thing about some of the AI tools now is you can, if you don't know how to do something, you can just ask it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Can you tell me how to, to do that? And for someone who's generally technically quite inept with it and computer, I mean don't even call it now, but asking it, how do I do this is quite useful.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I think that's another reason why, um, the bar is so high now. Um, and the skill sets required of a team are so different because, because we've got all this information on tap and because we can. And that means everyone else has also got that information on tap. So businesses have to be. So the cutting edge definition of cutting edge now for a business is different from what it was 10 years ago or even five years ago because there is just so much out there. Um, and as a result competitors are moving quicker, they're creating new things, teams are developing, um, you know, at a fast pace, um, able to digest huge amounts of data quickly, get customer trends, customer insights, um, how the market is moving is, is much more at your fingertips. So the pace of what you, how you move with that and how, what you do with, ah, the bar is really high now.

Speaker A: Um, as, as kind of a parting message for today to other sort of aspiring CFOs, um, are there any pieces, uh, of advice that you would give or other, other pieces of advice that you've been given by mentors in the past that sort of stick with you, that you would sort of leave our audience with today?

Speaker B: So for aspiring CFOs, um, I would say don't just want to be a CFO for the title. Um, it may not be for you, it may not. You know, some of the stuff I've said earlier, you're on your own a fair bit. Um, you do have to hold hands with the CEO and you have to make sure you get on with them and you trust each other. There's, there's things in there that isn't for everyone. Um, and really don't underestimate the, the changing gear from execution to influence to be able to be a successful cfo. And don't underestimate that you are now an outward facing leader. So what was what you did Very, very well before, whether it's commercial finance or FPA or a group finance controller or. Etc, what you need for a cfo being good at that isn't necessarily what a CFO skill set or to be a successful CFO is or you may find rewarding as well.

Speaker A: Was there a penny drop moment from moving from that kind of commercial finance road to being, having a CFO sort of view?

Speaker B: Uh, so I've done quite a number of varied roles, so, and sizes of business as well. That's been really helpful. So I haven't, I'm not through and through commercial finance stream. I've done a fair bit of fpa. I've headed up, um, business areas. So that means I had my arms around controls reporting treasury less so I probably had, um, strategy. Um, I had the analysis team in one previous role I was in as well, as well as say the property team. So I built up quite a few varied skill sets in those roles. Built up a fair bit of breadth. I think that's important for the CFO role. So there was no sort of penny drop on that side of things. I think, um, the penny drop or the big change is whilst, you know, you're now an outward leader and you and the external influences is where you need to index on actually doing it in reality is very different. So you have to juggle external influences, external stakeholders and at the same time the internal operational side of finance and the internal team delivery, juggling those two is hard. It's having a lot of plates spinning at the same time. You know, um, and I think anyone coming into those roles should just have that level of awareness and maybe take some advice about how do you manage it because you can't let any of them drop.

Speaker A: Yeah. And again, just being comfortable with the, the 8020 thing is that that's kind of a muscle you have to develop as well.

Speaker B: I think you have to develop that in most things in life as well in your personal life. Um, so, so yes, you have to develop the 8020 whether you work in a PLC or whether you work in private equity. Um, what I would say is 8020 doesn't mean that you only put 80% in the effort on some things. Um, it actually means like this, just things you have to prioritize. Don't let your standards drop. No, um, you know, I. In my day, I could have. One second, I'm in a daily cash flow spreadsheet, which that has been a change for me to the next second running into a meeting with the lenders and being able to talk credit credibly about our cash profile, um, uh, our capital structures and so forth. So I, um, would say don't take the 80, 20 too far, but it actually just means sort of where you prioritize and where the things are that are going to create value. Yeah.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Jaz, thank you very much for. For coming in and talking.

Speaker B: No problems. It's been great. Thank you.

Speaker A: Speak soon.

Speaker B: All right, thank you.

Speaker A: Cheers.