Building Resilient Organizations in Competitive Labor Markets with Kerry Sirkka

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to Franklin Covey's C Suite Conversations, where we sit down with today's top leaders to explore how they think, how they lead, and how they win in some complex times. I'm your host, Patrick Leddon, and today I'm joined by Carrie Serka. She's the Chief Recruitment Officer at Medical Solutions. Medical Solutions plays a critical role in connecting healthcare organizations with, with the clinicians they need to deliver care. And at the center of this work is the constant challenge of finding, developing and retaining talent in one of the most competitive labor markets in the country. Carrie brings a wealth of leadership, experience and perspective not only about healthcare staffing industry, but also about leading teams, navigating disruption, building resilient organizations, and so much more. In our conversation today, you're going to hear some insights that'll apply to you whether you're early in your career and managing a team or even leading at the executive level. With all that said, let me get out of the way and introduce you to Carrie. Kerry, thanks so much for joining us today.

Speaker A: Oh, thank you.

Speaker B: It's an honor, it's an honor to have you here. You know, most conversations like to start with a little bit of your story. So tell us, how did you get into health care staffing and ultimately your role as a chief recruitment officer at Medical Solutions?

Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Happy to share. So I have been in this industry for over 24 years now and I started as a, as a nurse recruiter at a small company at the time, um, called American Mobile, um, which was, it was a travel nurse company back in 2002. When I started, um, I went, I had never even heard the industry, um, but went to college at University of Wisconsin and really one of my main goals in life was to live uh, in warm weather. So might do that to you. Um, so I had moved with Gateway at the time to Gateway, uh, computers to San Diego and I started as a, ah, recruiter and um, was actually frankly excited to get out of retail. I was working retail at Gateway and um, working weekends. So I was excited to do a Monday through Friday job. Now that I've been in it for over 24 years. It. When you start and you're understanding that you're getting nurses to work to provide patient care, it's exciting and I always, I don't want it to go into leadership. Um, so even starting when I got the offer as a recruiter, I said, okay, well great, I'd like to be a leader. I think I was 24 at the time and I'm actually really Thrilled that I started in the role. It helped me understand how, how it operates. Um and a little bit of the background is I spent 15 years at uh what became EMN Healthcare, which is a healthcare staffing organization um that grew um both in nurse staffing and allied staffing locum tenens. Um then I went over and took on my first transformative project. I led part of the organization that was the per diem um del delivery called Nurse Finders. Um Nurse Finders actually per diem um is the shift by shift based staffing and it's extremely transactional and challenging but a real important service delivery for hospitals. Um you can imagine if your nurse calls off um, you have to find a replacement. And so I took on that business, transformed it uh to be a, on a platform where clinicians could book their shifts. Um and then I took on international nursing um and finally ah led at AM and was in credentialing um a little bit of my journey. Patrick is um, I am um deeply connected to the Alzheimer's association here in San Diego. I lost a grandma in 2011 um and uh in 2016 I became active with that association um which led me to eventually following that passion. Um I left AMN Healthcare to go to the Key which is a caregiver home care association um where we found caregivers for aging um people. And um, it was a great experience. Um eventually I followed the path back to healthcare staffing. I really love healthcare staffing. I spent a little bit of time at ah uh Intellicare which is also a gig platform. Um and uh this opportunity at Medical Solutions uh opened up in December of last year and I couldn't be more thrilled. It's an organization that I've um really admired since they started from. For those that follow the industry, I think it was 10, 15 years ago I started to take notice at Medical Solutions. They advertised pet housing and I thought oh this is a fun company. Um and they grew, they had a meteoric rise during the pandemic, um rose to become the second largest healthcare staffing organization. And um now I lead a team of uh recruiters in the nurse and allied segments. Ah also lead direct hire and we get to put clinicians to work across the country every day. I'm passionate about uh filling needs, passionate about patient care. I'm afraid of blood so I can't be a nurse or a doctor. And this is a way that I'm able to give back and um help um the shortage isn't going away. You know by 2030 there's going to be 800,000, um, in terms of a shortage for nurses. And I'm happy to be part of the solution.

Speaker B: Wow, that's a big number. 800,000. Yeah, it's a huge number. So I love it when you have some situation like yours where it's like you wanted to get out of the cold, a bit of Wisconsin I guess, get out of sitting um, in cold Camp Randall Stadium watching a Badgers game and get down to San Diego. And if folks who don't know what Camp Randall Stadium is just look it up and imagine how cold it would be in the winter in Wisconsin to get down to San Diego. But then when you get down there, you not only find warmer, nicer weather perhaps, but you also find a career and a, a platform and a place and uh, an opportunity to kind of as you're, as you mentioned and thank you for sharing and I'm sorry about the loss of your grandmother, that story. But you see like how we often can find purpose in our work. I'm curious. You mentioned things like um, more transformational work on some of the projects you were on international. You've made a couple pivots, um, in your career. And sometimes those moments of pivot are oftentimes where lessons come out that kind of shape us. Are there anything that kind of resonates or stands out in your mind with you about things that you kind of learned through those different roles?

Speaker A: Yeah, so many, um, and I'll ah, I'll focus on two of them. One is, you know, at ah, at amn, I was leading travel nurse recruitment which is, it was huge. We were number one in the industry and um, I was really thrilled with uh, the performance, um, had a great succession plan. So when the need came up at the organization, the per diem, uh, organization Nurse Finders, I was excited and scared, um, and naive at times.

Speaker B: That's a powerful collection right there. Excited, scared and naive. I think that's been my career. Okay, that's my book, my next book.

Speaker A: I thought here it's a smaller P L. It's got to be easier. Um, and I also remember interviewing for the job. I had peers tell me, oh gosh, whoever gets that role, dead man walking. It scared me and um, motivated me at the same time. I wanted to go fix it. I knew a lot. I knew it was important for the healthcare staffing industry. I knew that they had a lot of great people that worked there. And um, I did it. And it was hard, um, no doubt, uh, going in I thought it would be simpler because it was smaller, but it actually gets more complex. Um, uh, the transformation that we did is we went from branch offices and a regional fragmented approach to a centralized recruitment model that was digital and, um, change management. You can, uh, build all kinds of great ideas, but if you're not able to change the actual behavior, um, the change doesn't happen. So I learned a ton there. And the home care experience was very similar. Um, the company I went to had done, uh, acquisitions of 200 branch offices in a two year sprint and we had to centralize the operating model, uh, centralized the recruiting and um, you know, what I've learned in these transformation projects is that it usually takes two years. And what I learned from a wise executive coach at one point is what at first appears to be a mountain is a mountain range. And so now I know as I take on new challenges that, that first six months, um, you'll get through it, uh, but don't think that you know at all and be really open minded.

Speaker B: At Frank Huccave, we have some content around change and we talk about the change curve. And for those of you watching on screen, uh, you can see me kind of go through it and illustrate it. But if you're not, just imagine it has four phases and it starts with the status quo. So that status quo, where people are even telling you, wow, that's dead person walking right there. But if you try to tackle this thing, but you had the status quo going on and it has a bit of inertia behind it to stay that way. And then there's this kind of phase of disruption. We say, okay, we're going to go to centralized and at that point performance starts to dip down because people are concerned, they take their eye off the ball a little bit, they're not sure what's happening, and then hopefully you can bring them through adoption and then ultimately to innovation, kind of those four steps. I'm just curious, um, from your perspective, sometimes when you get down into that disruption adoption phase, it isn't really this like perfect thing that happens like that. It tends to be a little bit of a roller coaster ride. I, uh, would imagine doing this different change initiatives. You've been on that roller coaster ride a few times where you feel like, okay, it makes sense, everybody get on board. But then they kind of do it, but then they don't do it, then they resist and they jump on, then they push back. And I mean, how have you yourself kind of kept that focus in those moments when you're trying to lead big change where the organization Almost feels like it just doesn't want you to.

Speaker A: Uh, well, I'll share with you that the most important thing in any change management is a communication plan. And it's to be very thoughtful, very deliberate, and, um, it's all in the planning. Um, and it takes a lot of time. And you have to make sure that you're staging your communication so that people know it's coming, they're ready for the change. Um, you also have to build in all the things that will be better, um, on the other side, um, because I'm a visionary, uh, leader. And I think it's important that you share that vision so that as you're going through these stages of change, you're bringing your team along. Um, I've seen it done well, I've seen it done poorly. And, um, the best is when you have, you're thinking of all the questions and you're getting ahead of it as you prepare to, um, transform.

Speaker B: When you think about questions and the challenges lying ahead. I mean, you're working in a pretty competitive space right now, right? Talent's at a premium, and you mentioned the shortages that we're kind of facing. When you think about how to be successful in a space that is so highly competitive, when you think about that next mountain that you're going to scale, how do you, how do you, you know, go say, okay, I want to get here, but here's the realities we have to get through to make our, make it there. What do you think about, um, perspective when it comes to that talent market?

Speaker A: Well, I'll share first of all, that at medical, ah, Solutions and in my philosophy, um, we run with a lean philosophy. Um, and what I mean by that is that it's small incremental changes as well as the big ones. And I also, uh, I work in our offices and I believe the most innovative ideas come from the people that are most connected, um, to your clinicians and your clients. Um, so I am deliberate in spending an hour every week of office hours, and I dedicate the time for recruiters to call me and give me their innovative ideas. Um, you know, they're on the phone with clinicians every day and um, sometimes they're really small changes. Um, but that's what it takes. Um, especially in a market, as you said, that's as competitive as it is. You have to do the small incremental things as well as, um, the big changes. Um, and uh, it's, you have to be able to, to pivot and constantly, uh, be aware of what's around the corner. Uh, so I spent a lot of time, um, in, in the research, um, spending time understanding what's happening in our market from the client side.

Speaker B: Yeah, I applaud that, that you're able to, you know, at one level it's like, oh, it's only an hour. No, but it's hard to cover out, carve out an hour and to do it consistently. So. So I applaud you doing that. I'm just curious, have there been. You said sometimes they're just little things that somebody brings up, but it can make a big difference. Any, any examples? Just so people who are kind of going, well, I don't know if I have an hour to carve out, but then they hear you talk about this and they go, I should be doing that. I should be connected more to the front line, because that's where the bottom line comes from.

Speaker A: Oh, sure. Um, yeah. Uh, an example is I did a ride along with a recruiter and got to know, uh, some of the challenges as I watched them in this step by step. And one of them, it was a training thing. So a lot of times people think that there's gotta be a tech fix to, to fix this. And so much can be cured with process and training. Um, this time that I spent with this recruiter understood one of the limitations. They had developed a training and it added like 15 million in revenue. Um, so it was a good investment in time. Um, there's, there's so many small things that are, um, that again, going back to that lean mindset, um, you'll find things in a process that were put in place for usually a good reason, but need a fresh set of eyes to be re. Looked at. And, um, and you have to be willing to, to, to lean out a lot of your processes.

Speaker B: I was, as you were saying that I was. I was reminded of a time I interviewed the gentleman who was the CEO of Dunkin Donuts for about 30 years. So his. Actually, if people don't know the background of Dunkin Donuts, there was like this donut war going on in this family where, uh, this gentleman's father and his uncle both had donut businesses and one became Dunkin Donuts and one became some other donut place. And, uh, the guy I interviewed had ran it, took it over from his father and ran it for 30 years. And he talks about the munchkins, which, if anybody knows what those are, those are like the donut holes that they sold separately. And that came from him visiting one particular store that, uh, husband and wife were Running and the wife kept making these donut holes, packaging them up and selling them separately. And he saw that because people sometimes at the front line just see the problem so much more clearly. And obviously that's probably been billions in revenue over the years for, for a place like Dunkin Donuts. So just the. There's a lot of beauty, isn't there, in kind of seeing what people see at the front line?

Speaker A: Oh, so much beauty. Yeah, I mean I, I probably um. The thing I find the most joy in is doing um, in lean terminology, a Kaizen event, um, to like see the step by step process. And um, I love to, to understand what can be taken out to, to make sure you're, you know. Our main goal is to get quality clinicians to the bedside as quickly as possible. And anytime I can make the job easier to do that, I'm willing to, to invest the time.

Speaker B: What do you see when it comes to. When I think about Kaizen or continuous improvement or different types of initiatives to get better, we often bring technology uh, more and more into the conversation. How are you seeing technology kind of shaping recruitment and maybe what's the pros and cons?

Speaker A: Oh, it's an exciting time. It really is. I mean having done this for you know, over two decades, I think AI is going to help, um, I think about um, how we can make a recruiter's job easier. I'll use an example, um, something that is uh, it's just administrative work that takes time is updating resumes and making sure that the selling statements match up with what the client is looking for in any way to automate that process. Because sometimes Patrick, it's as simple as um, dotting an I and crossing a T. Um, but to have AI help with that, um, we're looking at ways we can do that, looking at ways we can do better matches. Um, so from the clinician profile you always want to get a quality match, um, and meet the client's demand. And um, if we can use AI to do that, um, because recruiters, um, I'll go specific to healthcare staffing at this point. Um, recruiters come from various backgrounds, um, and they don't come necessarily from a nursing background. So to speed up that process and help to make the match, um, is really helpful. Um, there's so many different ways that I'm looking forward to seeing how we can improve.

Speaker B: Um, and I would imagine that that impact of technology starts to um, kind of affect how you can um, you know, gather resumes from people or help them more effectively put Together, uh, their experiences on paper or electronic or otherwise, as well as how you can help clients better define what their requirements are. It seems like all of those things would be, um, kind of in, in that space that can be improved through technology.

Speaker A: Yeah, you're right, because on the client side, you know, you paint the picture and, um, the clients are at a shortage. Right? They are stretched thin. They don't have enough staff. And as much as the information needs to be in a, an order of what they're looking for, it's taking time away from the bedside. So the more that we can use AI to just take away the administrative burden of, uh, getting the right clinician to the right place at the right time, uh, the better. And it's. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing recruiters come in. Um, I started in this industry, um, after email started, um, so I missed the faxing of resumes. But to see the ways that, you know, that you can look at a clinician profile at this point and see, oh, my gosh, they'd be an excellent match for this job over here. Um, based on the algorithm, um, it's a real exciting time where we can, as we call it, find, uh, the purple squirrel, um, because there are certain, uh, clinicians that hospitals are desperate for. And, um, the more time we can spend finding those clinicians, the better.

Speaker B: Is there a bit of an. In your work over, you know, for the last. You said a couple decades. Is there a bit of a art and a science to it in that? In regards to one component can be, we need a human being with these credentials. But then the other side is, yeah, but I want that human being to fit into the situation they're being put into, or the organization they're being put into, or the culture of the organization they're being put into. Does both of that play out in your world?

Speaker A: Yeah, it's both. You know, depending on the, you know, what's happening in the industry right now, it's definitely art and science. Um, the clinicians that are traveling today are looking to make a change. Um, and, um, the art is getting below the transaction and not just taking what you hear at a surface level, but really understanding why a clinician wants to leave a job and move somewhere across the country and getting to the core of the needs. You know, we are a tech in touch strategy, and our recruiters are the best in the industry. Um, so their ability to connect with clinician and find out, you know, above, just, hey, here's what, um, at a surface level of what the clinician's looking for, but also what could be meaningful, um, for that clinician to hit their personal and professional goals? Um, that's, that's the touch side. The tech is, do they have this, uh, license, this certification, do they match with the clinic the client's looking for? So, um, it's a, it's a market where selling is, is really key.

Speaker B: I, I'm curious. There's a lot of people listening to the podcast too. Um, some might be in the healthcare industry, certainly are in many different industries. They're also in many different roles. Some people are in the C suite and they're looking to get a little N that can help them succeed this week or next week or whatever it might be, or into the future. And some people might be earlier on in their careers, but one thing that all of them, um, experience at some point in time is a new person joining their team, a new person joining their organization, new person joining whatever it might be, and they might be involved in that selection process. And I'm just curious, like, from your perspective, what have you learned to help dig a little deeper below the surface of what they say? They want to really understand the need when it comes to bringing somebody into their organization or filling a position. What are some of the questions or things that you think about to really kind of dig a little deeper?

Speaker A: Oh, I think, gosh, great question. I think it's important, you know, in where we are today, there's so much information coming at you. Um, whether it's your social media or news, etc. It's important to just sit down and take the time. You know, whether it's an internal candidate that's coming in for an interview that's considering changing their job, um, to come to work for your organization, it's such a privilege to be able to spend that time, invest and get to know them, um, and see, you know, not only is this a change that's going to be good for them, but it's going to be good, uh, for the organization as well, that it's a great fit. So, you know, important number one is to spend the time, and I'd say the same thing for the, uh, recruiting, uh, for our contingent workforce. Um, the recruiters that are succeeding today are getting to know, uh, the clinicians and, um, not just asking that, hey, how much money are you looking to make? Um, and where are you looking to go? They're asking of, uh, why, um, why now? Um, what are you looking for in a job? What don't you like about your Current position. Um, because it's best to make sure that we're setting them up for a position that is going to meet their personal and professional needs.

Speaker B: You know, as you answered that question, I was reminded, um, at Franklin Covey, we often talk about, in the process of making good decisions, you have to pause, clarify, and then decide what to do. Because oftentimes we just react. And I can be prone to this as much as anybody else. But in our conversation today, you've mentioned three different times where you took the time. So one was when you said, I took the time. You didn't say it this way, but I spent about an hour every week trying to connect with people who are doing the role. So you're taking the time to do that. Another one was in that moment of answering that question, you said you should take the time to think about the person or the role you're trying to fill or why that person, uh, would've went that role. But you actually, in the process of answering the question, you took the time to go. That's a great question. Let me think about that for a moment. So I love that you have the ability and practice it to not just react, but to reflect and decide. Has that been something that you've just always been good at or have you kind of learned from a few knee jerk reactions to go, hey, maybe I need to slow down and make decisions or, uh, somebody model that for you? How, Carrie, did you get to the point where you're good at, like, pausing, thinking about it, and then determining what to do next or investing the time?

Speaker A: You're too kind. Thank you. It is something I'm deliberate in and I'll share. I got feedback at one point in my career that I needed to slow down. And, um, it's, you know, when you think about our culture, it's fast paced and to create an inclusive environment. My goal is to always speak at a tone that is clear. Um, I get this practice every day. I will share. My husband's from Finland. And so when I speak, I try to speak at a pace that is, um, as if my audience, um, has English as a second language because it's important. I want to be inclusive in terms of taking the time. It's. There's so many great ideas. And I learned long ago that the most important is to not be the smartest in the room. And I never would claim to be. Um, so you really have to listen to the ideas that are around you and create the space, uh, in place for people to share those ideas. Um, I Think it's critical. I know I'm not perfect, so I always love people giving me feedback if I'm off track. Um, and I think that's important too, is to, uh, be open to learn. I'm, um, a lifelong learner and constantly looking for ways to grow.

Speaker B: So. You mentioned, lifelong learning. You mentioned, um, self awareness as you were going through that answer and seeking out feedback. If you were to talk to the folks who are, uh, listening out there right now, whether they're future leaders or whatever it might be, you know what's like, one piece of advice that you would say it doesn't matter what your industry is, it doesn't really matter what your role is, but this is a good piece of advice if you want to continue progressing.

Speaker A: Okay, the one piece of advice is you are the they. So I'll never forget when I was, you know, maybe it was the second year in leadership. And you say things at times of, uh, I'm gonna go fight for this and I'll be your advocate and you think about that. And you give away your power when you say that. You, you give it to someone else and you kind of make it sound like you're fighting for things. And it's just a simple tweak in your verbiage of, uh, hey, I'll go have that discussion and, um, really own it. So whether you're in your first year in leadership and you just got promoted and you want to get to the C suite, or you're right in the middle, um, you're at that VP level, uh, you are the they and start to own it. Um, start to. If you don't, and I'm not saying agree with every decision, certainly you can have disagreements from time to time. That's important. But ultimately, where you land as a business, you're going to have to go out there and be the they and, uh, support the decision. Uh, speak up again. Um, when you're in a room, if you have a seat in a room, you're invited, so speak up at the table. Uh, but really critical to become the they early in your career and get rid of that verbiage. Like that you're fighting.

Speaker B: Yeah, and I love the idea too, um, where you say, you know what, especially as an executive and a leadership team, it's like, all put our ideas on the table. If we have questions or concerns, we should push back and talk about it. But at the end of the day, once a decision's made, don't act like you weren't in the room when that happened or don't and go back and say, well, they said to do it. It's like, no, you were there, right? So we should have some unity in command here as we do things. Well, Kerry, thank you so much for joining us today. It was a delightful conversation and I learned a lot. I took a lot of notes as we were going along. Everything about what you can learn in those pivot moments to, um, maybe avoid the winter in Wisconsin and Madison, or the idea of sometimes you walk into a place where there's lots of needs and maybe instead of just jumping right in, sometimes you need to pause for a moment and think for a minute and gather some information and make some smart decisions. And clearly you've been doing those throughout your career. So thanks so much for joining us today. Carrie.

Speaker A: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker B: Well, folks, uh, thanks so much for joining us today. And I hope you really enjoyed as much as I did, learning about Carrie's journey and her perspective, her insights into talent, leadership, resilience, really give us all something to think about when we're going through the process of our day to day and even throughout our careers and as listeners to this podcast today. Thanks so much for turning Tuning in to Franklin Covey C Suite Conversations. If you enjoyed today's discussion, please subscribe, share the podcast with a colleague, and join us again as we continue to learn from leaders like Carrie who are shaping the future. I'm Dr. Patrick Leddon. That's all I have. Go make it a great day.