Building Bytes · 2026-07-24 · 1h 4m
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
60 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Daniel Meraki, Country Director of Zipline Ghana and founder of Boxplay Ventures, recounts his unconventional path through Ghana's tech ecosystem. After working in investment banking at SAS Finance Group and observing high-level transactions, he left to pursue entrepreneurship, initially launching Boxplay Investment and a pub called Box Play that consumed four years of his life and nearly bankrupted him. Rather than chase funding immediately, Daniel emphasizes that founders need to first build something meaningful - solving real problems and creating value. He argues the infrastructure supporting founders (ecosystem, mentorship, deal flow) matters as much as capital. His current focus with Boxplay Ventures and the Venture Nest is creating founder-focused infrastructure and ecosystem support, having learned that sustainable growth requires validation, iteration, and community before scaling. Daniel's narrative serves operators considering entrepreneurship or ecosystem building: validate your idea thoroughly, understand your industry before entering it, avoid the "silver bullet" thinking that derails struggling ventures, and recognize that meaningful impact comes from solving problems systematically rather than through hype or premature capital raises.
He became disillusioned with top-down change efforts in the private sector and believed change would come from the bottom through entrepreneurship, leading him to quit in late 2010 to support founders directly.
He entered without industry passion, lacked cultural understanding of hospitality operations, had insufficient revenue to cover costs, and fell into a hand-to-mouth survival cycle that lasted four years before he closed it.
Boxplay Ventures is a founder-focused venture studio that builds companies alongside entrepreneurs, while the Venture Nest is an ecosystem-focused innovation hub; both support Ghanaian founders from discovery to exit.
A senior figure advised him to stay in the office past 5pm when meaningful work was happening, offer to help with small tasks, and prove himself - this led to significant projects within three months of his internship.
Looking for a "silver bullet" exit from his dire situation, he decided formal education plus a bridge back to Europe could provide stability and a path forward, finding a university offering flexible evening and weekend classes.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains some substantive insights about ecosystem building, founder strategy, and local market problems, but substantial portions are personal narrative and tangential storytelling that dilute the density. Key insights (niche market entry, local funding pools, problem differentiation) are present but interspersed with lengthy anecdotes about the guest's career trajectory that don't directly inform B2B operators.
starting small doesn't limit you...find a way to be very niche in the market...dominate that market and then build from there rather than going too broad
the money actually in our case directs a lot of the problems that get solved. And I think the difference local funding pots would make is that it changes the set of problems that can be solved
The guest offers some differentiated thinking around local funding pools and problem-first approach rather than solution-first, which is useful. However, much of the framing (niche-before-scale, founders solving local problems, ecosystem building challenges) reflects conventional wisdom in venture literature. The specific Ghana/Africa context provides some freshness, but broader frameworks are not particularly novel.
we shouldn't be building the same companies, we should build different companies because ultimately...our deep understanding of the challenges will differentiate us in a way that no foreigner can build that company
the money actually directs a lot of the problems that get solved...local funding pools would change the set of problems that can be solved
Daniel Meraki is a relevant operator with genuine experience: country director at Zipline (a significant DroneDelivery company), runs a venture studio (Boxplay Ventures) and innovation hub (Venture Nest) in Ghana. He has lived experience with startup failure (the pub business), investment banking, and ecosystem building. However, his core achievements in venture/founder success are not extensively detailed in the transcript, limiting caliber assessment.
I'm the country director for Zipline Ghana and aside of that I run a venture studio which is called Boxplay Ventures and basically with Boxplay Ventures we are trying to build kind of the infrastructure from founder discovery towards exit
I worked two years in investment bank...I was working on asset management...Africa World Airlines...Ghana stock exchange transactions
The episode lacks concrete data, metrics, and specific case examples to support claims. While the guest mentions Zipline's $800M funding and references a portfolio company (Video), he provides minimal detail about outcomes, metrics, or specific problems solved. The delivery/fulfillment example is vague about actual business results. Most claims remain at the level of observation rather than evidence-backed assertion.
Zipline...800 million USD
when I met, it was a delivery company...they have done that in so many little aspects...it becomes a different company than the foreign company
The hosts ask reasonable questions and do follow up, but often allow the guest to meander into long personal narratives without sharp redirection. There are moments of productive inquiry (about the pub failure, local funding pools) but insufficient pushback on vague claims. The conversation feels more like a biography extraction than rigorous interrogation of testable assertions.
So how did you get that position on such a big project?
But I mean you have to look when I say you cannot build, it's like even just like the investment level required. Right. And I mean it's publicly available
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
The startup world loves to celebrate ideas. But ideas alone don't build companies. In this episode of Building Bytes, we sit down with Daniel Merki, Managing Director of Boxplay Ventures, to explore the infrastructure behind successful startups - and why the most important parts of building a company are often the least visible.From legal structures and accounting systems to operational processes, venture builders are creating repeatable frameworks that help startups move from experimentation to scale.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Welcome to Building Bytes where we tell relevant stories about Ghana's tech ecosystem to fuel innovation and drive the growth of our uh, digital uh, ecosystem. This show is brought to you by Insights Lab with support from Hubtel and the video is shot at Haptel Academy Studios. Building byte is on MX24 on Thursdays from 8pm to 9pm and on Sundays from 7pm to 9pm this um, in this season we are discussing Ghana Tech tech rising ecosystem and we are glad to have join us Daniel Meraki, um, who will be sharing with us his whole experience um, in Ghana's digital ecosystem and we are, we are excited to have him here. My name is Caleb and I'm here with Poker Coffee. All right, great. So um, Daniel, maybe before we say anything about you, um, then there's a jack of all trades. My stuff. I know. Yeah, but better than most maybe. Yeah. So um, you can just give us a short intro about yourself, what you do.
Speaker B: Yeah, okay. Um, yeah, as you said, my name is Daniel, Daniel Kweku Merki and I'm an entrepreneur and currently I do a few different things. Um, I still have an 8 to 5 so to say, which is probably not that traditional in an 8 to 5. So um, I'm the country director for Zipline Ghana and aside of that I run a venture studio which is called Boxplay Ventures and basically with Boxplay Ventures we are trying to build kind of the infrastructure from founder discovery towards exit to support Ghanaian founders and build together with them. I think that's a lot of work and of course it's not one company that can build all, but that's our ambition. And as part of Box Play Ventures we eventually also built uh, ah, an innovation hub which is called uh, the Venture Nest. And the Venture Nest if you would want to separate, the Venture Nest is more ecosystem focused. Okay. And Box Play is really more founder focused. But as you go that journey you start to realize that without the ecosystem you usually wouldn't get founders consistently. So that's what I'm kind of working on.
Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. So um, clearly D is running on both ends, whether founder ends or like corporate ends. I'll say it. And it's interesting that um, you skills are cutting along all this section so I'm looking forward to hear more from the founders. If you've, you've invested in. I know you've done one episode with uh, one of them. Uh, yeah, maybe we have to call her back and do a recap. So to just pick up from your origin stories, I know you came to Ghana in 2007. And, um, came in first as an intern, then went back, um, came in more as a, um, an employee or, um, a worker transition into Japanese entrepreneurship and all that. So maybe you can give us that. That's that history.
Speaker B: Maybe I'll start kind of at the beginning. Right. Um, half Swiss, half Ghanaian.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Normally these days, it's an exception that I said half Swiss. The Swiss part first. So I'm half Ghanaian, half Swiss. And I mean, I was born in Turkey, but then spent most of my school time in Switzerland.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I guess around the time going to university, I really hadn't figured what I wanted to do. I think I kind of knew I wanted to do something that in my head makes sense. So what we call impact, I would say, um, yeah. And then they want to study without knowing what's the purpose, why am I doing it? Does it even have the benefits?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And was still, of course, still living with my parents. And then, uh, I was actually really just walking home thinking, what should I do? And then I was like, okay. I mean, you move out, then your parents can't tell you what you have to do. So I came back.
Speaker A: Uh, is it to say, I mean, you're having some rough edges with your parents at that time?
Speaker B: Uh, not necessarily, but it's like, you know how societal pressures, they will creep on you.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And a lot of questions will be asked, and it's not like you have the answers. You just know that, you know, you don't want to go that path. But then, okay, what. What are you doing instead?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So it's just those kind of questions.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So I came on as like, okay, let me go to London. So I went to London. You see, I'm going a little bit earlier. I went to London in 2005 for a year.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And I realized, oh, life is not that easy. I mean, you have to work. I was really running up and down, just chasing money, basically because I had no money, so I had to work all the time. And then I came back, um, after a year, and I was like, no, that's not it. I say, maybe we can give Ghana a try. So in 2007, I came to Ghana, as you said. So I came to Ghana full year. So January to December was doing internship with, uh, Strategic African Securities. I think it's now SAS Finance Group. And yeah, I mean, that was one year and kind of entrepreneurial. We were doing a lot of corporate, uh, finance transactions. I really enjoyed the work, learned a lot. And then after a year, I went Back to Switzerland and found my way into kind of an engineering role with Alstom working a factory. And it wasn't just what I wanted. And yeah, I called back whether there's an opportunity to come back. I came back to. Yeah, beginning of 2009. And I mean even with that, I mean I called back, told me, yes, you have a job. And I quit without knowing what role. I quit without knowing the salary. And of course there's like, people would ask why would you do something like that? I mean, I would say probably also some level of night naivety. Yeah, definitely. Because I remember, I think, I think it was my mom one asked me, so what are you going to do if it's not enough? And I told her, yeah, they know I have to survive. And then basically I came back, started working truly, truly like on the last day before they brought the contract. Last day, like salary day, payment day. And I just checked, it was fair.
Speaker A: Can you just give an arrange just for us to get a picture? I mean it's early but though you can just give us a range.
Speaker B: I mean I can, I can give you a range. I mean I can tell you back then when I was 2007, what they gave me was similar to what they gave national service stuff.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker B: I came as an intern. So that was 150 CDs. But I mean it was close to one to one back then. So it was good, good for national service. And when I came back in, okay, in dollar terms, it was more than a thousand dollars.
Speaker A: It was more than $1,000. Yeah, that's at that time.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: That's. That's a lot.
Speaker B: Let me think if it was.
Speaker A: It was around, it was around that. It was around a thousand dollars.
Speaker C: Yeah. 500.
Speaker A: So that'll be like, um. Yeah, 1500 is 1.5 million. That, that would be how they mention those times. Which. Yeah.
Speaker B: Which is average.
Speaker A: Which is around a thousand dollars. Yes, yes.
Speaker B: So that's what I'm saying. I would say it was good. It's good.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, of course.
Speaker A: And that's.
Speaker B: People look at it, it's like, oh, you're coming from Switzerland, why would you. So, yeah, uh, it always depends on the lens. But then when you are realistic and you know the.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: The environment, you know that.
Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good rate.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's a good starting point, let's say it that way. And yeah, from there I worked two years in investment bank and it was exciting because I was working.
Speaker C: So it took up. I'm a little bit interested in it. But what did you study in school? Um, how, what gave you the plus for you know, the skills to work? I think initially you said you work with um, a finance group. Sas. Mhm. And you do investment backing. What was your background? What did you study in school give you the skills and experience to do that?
Speaker B: Uh, I mean so I mean as I said I didn't go to university so school system is a bit different and the, let's say the, the direct route towards university is, is across board. It's not like you choose science or any or general arts or the way it works in Ghana. So it's like it was just across.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So I would say just like for maybe like a level something of that sort.
Speaker A: So yes. Uh, I mean write results, apply apply or write an exam for the interested food you are in and you go into that field.
Speaker B: We don't even select. That's what I'm saying brother. It's like up to, they will probably do up to 40 subjects.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Right. Not all at the. Some maybe you end in year three, some you end in year four, but you do like across board whether it's physics, whether it's chemistry, whether it's arts, but it's like just general.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Um, so but ultimately it's like um, I would say it's learning on, it's like it's just learning, it's just learning on the job. It's not like I had a skill set that was good for what I did. I'm, I'm an analytical person. I always have been good with numbers. So I guess it's like a kind of an advantage in terms of the field that I found myself initially. But then I mean that's it. Um, and because I didn't have a degree. Right. I think that's the other part. It's like so when you get an opportunity you, it's not like you can choose. It's not like I was writing job applications thinking that people will select me based on my cv.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then that continued for a while even if after I continued and I progressed.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I, I, I read in one of your posts that I mean you worked on like really interesting um, transactions. One of them was on, another was on Africa World Airlines. Um, I know why these are there because there's a common person in there. I don't mention his name but I'm sure ghan most g supp to know who that person is is how were you placed on like such a big transaction in terms of, I mean not mentioning even the other Ghana stock exchange transactions you did. Uh, you mentioned a number of them in your articles. How did you get that position on such a big project?
Speaker B: I mean, you made a reference. Right. And I can. I will give you a story with him.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because I think it's like. Yeah, it will illustrate a bit. It's like when I came initially for the internship, um, I think after a week I walked out and I met him in the car park and he asked me how is it okay? And I told him it's boring because. And then he asked me why. And then I told him. Yeah, I mean they get. They're giving me tasks that are really boring. No real work. And what he told me is like, if I'm. If what I'm saying is true, it's 5:00pm I should go back into the office that around 7:00pm, 8:00pm. The people that are really doing the meaningful work, they will be there if I'm around, they will give me small tasks.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And eventually if I do the small tax well, they will give me bigger tasks before I know I have my own projects. Yeah, that was the advice. And look at him. And it makes sense. And I went back and he pretty much worked like that within three months. That was in the internship.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
Speaker B: So I wasn't the lead as a leader, but still I had immediately meaningful, uh, projects. I went into different departments, all kinds of work. Work. I was working on asset management side of things, everything.
Speaker A: Is it possible I mentioned his name?
Speaker B: I mean.
Speaker A: Yeah. Because I mean he's impacted your life positively. Yeah. So is it possible. Can we mention.
Speaker B: You can mention the name.
Speaker A: Yeah. You can tell whether I'm wrong.
Speaker B: Exactly. Yes. Yes. I mean if you look at the transactions, you can definitely figure it out.
Speaker C: So. Yes.
Speaker A: Yeah. Because it was exciting to see those two companies which he a shareholder of, like do those transactions and see you in there. So I mean, I'm going to orders, but that's not a conversation anyway. But yeah, you. How did he also get into the stock exchange trading and all that?
Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean that, that was the. I mean it's one opportunity which the investment bank is his company.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then we were working on those kind of transactions and I would say, generally speaking, I mean, he's a great entrepreneur, very entrepreneurial. Uh, not focused on. Despite having all the credentials. He's not focused on the credentials. So he gave opportunities and it was a great platform. And again, I would rather say probably I was be. You know, it's easy to. When you are naive or when you are not experienced, it's even very easy to confuse you. Like you think you're working on great projects.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But sometimes it's like there's a difference between being given a platform or being the platform. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, uh, it's like when he switches, like somebody in a could run a company and a CEO becomes. It's like if you're Elon Musk. Right. He's the platform.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It's not the companies that are the platform. He can raise money, he can go to the next project, not the company that is. But in most cases, it's the platform you are given. So even if you are great salesman, you are in whatever industry, insurance, it's like, yeah, but if you leave that company, you might not be able to do the same thing.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker B: But you might with a lack of experience, you might not really be able to realize that or the extent.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But it was definitely a good experience. A lot of learnings in terms of entrepreneurship, in terms of mistakes that I made. And then ironically, I would say even in my current rule with zipline, for instance, it's like there's a lot of things that I'm doing basically on a daily basis that I was able to observe in the passenger seat. And again, you feel they're so important. But when you're then in the driver's seat, you realize, oh, it's a whole different ball game from so many angles.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Awesome, awesome. So, um, you transition like that work, um, after a year or two, you quit. Because I think it came around 2007 and finished the year 20 2008, went back, came back 2010 or came back 2008, quit around 2010 if I'm right.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: I came back beginning 2009 and quit like end of 2010. So it was two years, 209, 2010.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. People want to know why did you come back? And I know this time was more entrepreneurial, focused. So you can share. Why. Why they come back. Yeah. What was the goal behind the comeback?
Speaker B: I mean, the comeback was. The comeback was basically I was in Switzerland 2008. So I came back to that senior investment analyst position right now, a full time position. And then after two years I quit. And it's like, I mean, you know, um, I don't want to speak too much about. Yeah, we have already mentioned, but it's like if I would say when I look at the company and what we were doing back then. Right. What we are kind of driving is like, like the Industrialization of Ghana, Right. Through private sector means.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Working on those kind of infrastructure projects and everything. And to some extent I was disillusioned at some point. I mean I fully bought in. And then at some point I was disillusioned and I felt like change would have to come from the bottom. Like, okay, if change needs to come from the bottom, where's the best way? And I was like, probably entrepreneurship is the best vehicle. Now, of course if you go in there, you also see a lot of nuance, uh, and different aspects of it. But that was kind of the base thinking. It's like, okay, change will not come from the top, change will not come, uh, from the system, but it will come from the bottom and it will be non systemical. And back then I thought, okay, where can I support probably going back to support entrepreneurs being some form, form of a bridge. That was my initial thinking. Okay, so, yeah.
Speaker A: All right. So until when did um, Box Play launch? Uh, before the pub and the grill and the.
Speaker B: I mean there's several. There's like a iteration of failures after failures. You could say.
Speaker A: So.
Speaker B: So when I left, I launched the company was called Box Play Investment. And basically, I mean, else had no clue. I was standing there taking sweat equity in projects, shouting at founders, go and work, uh, all night in somebody else's business. And thinking that everybody should have like that long term vision and just driving things. And then at some point the pup was also called Box Play. Yeah, I didn't want to name it Box Play. Somebody convinced me he went to do the logo and bought T shirts and I said, okay, let me name it the same way.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: So just kind of slid into it. It wasn't meant to be big. It wasn't meant to be the main business.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And eventually some things happened and it ended up that it was bigger than I wanted. Two story building, three bars. Uh, now very different environment than, let's say, investment banking. Different type of people. I didn't understand the culture. Now I had to deal with Ghanaian waiters. Let me say it that way, no, but it's. Understand what I'm. And I just ran into it. I didn't know. And I was just going in with the same drive. I think I'd mentioned it to you in some conversation that I was even running aptitude tests for my waiter selection. And I was like, yeah. And if somebody asks me, it's like, yeah, I don't care, rather, rather go bankrupt than not have a big ambition and all this kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, at A point. I mean you go broke, live your home, come to sleep in the pub. Um, at the point you mentioned like you started going from hand to mouth directly from the pub. No savings, nothing. What people are drinking or buying. You're making ends meet from that. How did he get caught up in that loss? That. That's the hole. Let me see.
Speaker B: You mean how I got there?
Speaker A: Yeah. How did you get into that hole? Yeah, ultimately, because I believe um, entrepreneurs can, can learn something from that so you can share it with them in perspective.
Speaker B: I mean ultimately I would say when you look at it it's like I had no idea of the industry. I went in, no passion for the industry. And then unfortunately also had some level of money that I at that stage that I could put in. Because maybe if you started smaller it would have been better. And then as well, I guess I mentioned it before, it was paired with the non understanding of the culture, me driving things. Um, and probably you know, is that. Yeah, you know you have that sayings where you should be stubborn and vision.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So I was stubborn and vision.
Speaker A: But I was also stubborn and vision.
Speaker B: I was stubborn on everything basically. Right. So wasn't really iterative enough. And then yeah, ultimately that's how I slid in. And more and more as we are not having revenue or not sufficient revenue, revenue more and more money went into it and it became eventually was now was my source of income.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you mentioned it is like hand to mouth. But it's like that cycle which is a crazy cycle is like when you. When basically you're uh. Depending basically on the sales from that day or from the upcoming day. Basically from the upcoming day, uh, to any affect how you think thing. Right. And normally I'm. I think very long term usually. But in that period it becomes very difficult because you start looking as like. I mean you might even catch yourself looking at your phone book and it's like who should I write to? Hoping that maybe Caleb could pass through the pub. So hey Caleb, how are you doing?
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker B: And then Caleb will show up and buy something. A cook. Yeah, exactly. It's like it's um. Which I guess is a bad thing for an entrepreneur to be in that spot and, and have that kind of thinking. But it's just something I slid into it. And um. While I'm saying I was thinking short term, I always believed that I would come out of it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I always sounds weird. I kind of. I was convinced that I will find myself in positions in roles that will be influential and impactful. And for Ghana, let's say, and maybe even on a wider scale. And to some extent, if even it. I always felt that if not me, then at least I will unearth some one or two or three that will carry the torch and go further than I did. But I was always convinced. So in that aspect I was still thinking long term, but it kind of happened. And you see that period, the pub was four years.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And it's like, I mean, I didn't know it would take four years. I knew, oh, I'm not in a good position or okay, I might need six months and then I'm out of it. And then it. Then it's six months pass. It's like, okay, another three months, then I'll be in a better position. And it never kind of happened.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Ignore your sufferings. I knew know your suffering. Sorry. Not to make it a joke, but yeah. I mean you move From I think 150,000 USD if I'm right. Or cities.
Speaker B: No USD.
Speaker A: USD. Yeah. To almost bankrupt or bankruptcy.
Speaker B: I mean it's Ghana. If it's somewhere else, I guess bankrupt is the right description. But into negative.
Speaker A: Into negative.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah. And at that point you think of going back to school, which you start doing, um, to the send that you finish your undergrad in four years, get to do a masters in one year, got a scholarship for your masters, which was like fun to do. And get back into the ecosystem in another way even compressor story. Let's hear something from that. That whole experience getting back to school.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean it's interesting because it's something I didn't want to do. Right. And now I'm going back. I'm not in Switzerland in, in Ghana, very different circumstances. But it was like, you know what we described before, when you're thinking day by day.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you are looking for like a silver bullet out.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And usually that's the wrong approach. Right. Ah, you got into a certain situation. Ah, you have to get out step by step. So I was looking at that silver bullet, like fantasizing and I was just going around and there was, there was a time when I was browsing, I saw something of an mba.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I was never somebody. I'm not, I'm not somebody who loves credentials, not eager to go and do an MBA or anything of sorts. But at that moment when I was finding myself in the pub, I was like, ah, this thing, it wouldn't be bad to do this for one year or one and a half years. Right. And then figure out what's the next step.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then of course, you can't go in without an undergrad.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then literally, I mean, I closed the pup and I was walking around in osu and then I saw this banner hanging and it was like morning, evening, weekend classes.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: And I looked at it and I was like, oh, if they have this, then I can find a way to do it.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: I mean, because, yeah, it was difficult for me because I couldn't go somewhere where it's rigid. But it's like, yeah, there must be a way.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I say, okay, let me just do it. And that was also the thinking behind is like, once I do it, then let me also have a bridge back to Europe.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I already knew at that moment in time that if I go and do the Bachelor, then that will be my quotes, my. I'll do the break and go to Europe.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And do an MBA and. Yeah. And figure out what are the next steps. But ironically, the moment I did that, I was all back into the business. Yeah. Like what I wanted to do. Wanting to be impactful, wanting to find ways and means to contribute to the development of Ghana and hopefully beyond Ghana. Yeah. My mind was back on that. But of course I was like, okay, now that I've gone through this, I have to do. Go step by step. Right. I'm not in a position to take the kind of risk, uh, I would say probably I'm naturally a risk taker, but I'm not in a position to take those risks and I have to go step by step. More strategic, more thoughtful and yeah. Apply the learnings. You say from the sufferings, but apply the learnings that I had from that period.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker C: Okay, awesome. So I think from there you came back to Africa. You did, um, Misting in Nigeria and you did, um, you came to Ghana as well. So what, what has been your observation, let's say in the ecosystem, the tech or the startup ecosystem in Nigeria? In Ghana. Let's start from there. Then we take, you know, look at the modern box, play this next phase. Um, what you're trying to do with it, basically.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think I will feed into all the, the stereotypes on this one for my, my observations.
Speaker A: Um,
Speaker B: my observation for the g. For the Nigerian startup ecosystem is that it is more collaborative than ours. I think we have a lot of fragmentation and I think we have a lot of like people hedgehogging, like maybe have access to some funding, maybe it's grant funding. And yes, I'm getting some $50,000 or $100,000. And then the. The modus is to ensure that that stays with me. Right.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And of course it can't stay. I mean a grant cannot stay forever, but you just try to secure.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Versus in Nigeria. It's a far more of. Yeah. If. If you grew, I win. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So we collectively tell the story. We understand that success of someone affects my. And there needs to be a good story for the overall ecosystem. And I think it was far more collaborative. Of course there is the market size difference which also probably brings in some of the differences. Mhm. But there was generally a higher ambition level and I think having higher ambition or large ambition is part of being collaborative. Because if you have truly, truly have like a huge ambition. Ambition or vision, you can't go it alone. Right. If somebody wants to, if somebody is um, is happy, if he has built a company, uh, let's say a $1 million company, then he probably will try and saveguard everything at that stage.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: If on the other hand somebody is there and wants to build one of the largest companies in the world or in one of the largest company on the continent, then that person will be open to anybody that he thinks or she thinks can bring them closer to it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So I think that's one of. That's. That's one of the things. And I mean Nigerians are. I mean they're. I uh, guess there's a cultural component. Are amazing storytellers, um, more direct. M. So I think all of these things affect. But then of course on the other hand there is the instant structural issues that are there that are really complex.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then when you look at what we face in Ghana, sometimes you feel like in Ghana it's like it's almost as if, if we collectively get our act together, it wouldn't be that difficult. Like there's a lot of things that are actually kind of in our favor. Right. A lot that can be done. I mean th. Yeah. I think those are some, some of
Speaker C: the
Speaker B: experiences observation I uh, had. And it's like when you generally speak around or talk to people, I think people feel kind of similar. As I say, I'm kind of feeding into stereotypes. It's not like I ah, have some unique insights. It's like rather I'm confirming what I have heard previously. That was my experience.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Awesome, awesome, awesome. So then you came to Ghana because he had bookstream investment before, um, you ran into challenges. But he came to Ghana and started you know, the boxing investment. He started venture, um, um, nest. Let's Talk a little bit about it, what you're trying to um, achieve with both of these, um, organization and what has been the journey so far? What has been the unique learning I've seen you make. Um, comparison of how we should build in, you know, Ghana and Africa as opposed to the Western model. Um, let's dive a little bit more into that. And your thoughts.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, maybe let me go to the beginning and then how my thinking around probably has evolved to some extent.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean when I came back after the NBA, I went to Germany for a year and I came to Nigeria and I stayed there for three years. But immediately I already knew I wanted to go back to Ghana and like have a second try. Right. So when I came to Nigeria, that's when I registered because the box investment was long gone. So the new company was now Box Play Ventures.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Ah. And as I started out I was basically, I wanted to do the ven Venture builder I was looking like for. I wanted those daring entrepreneurs, like risk takers. Right. Roll over the continent, that kind of a thing. And I was like, okay, but I don't have the means, I don't have the resources. I also believe that from my experience I should start small and figure out things and then have like a unique approach that is, I mean unique in quotes, but it's like rooted in local context.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And so the best thing that, that I could see to do was very early stage investment because I don't have the research, research to be like a full support system, the venture builder. So I actually flew from, I take my holidays, I come to Ghana and I look for startups to invest, invest in.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: one of those trips, that's when I connected with Vanessa. Yeah, video. Video, yeah. That was the mention that had been on your podcast. And then also with Isaac who is my partner in the Change Africa podcast. And basically for him, for instance, I was introduced and we had a six hour conversation and then we shook hands and then like, okay, let's do this 50 50. And we, we have some ambition in that, let's say media storytelling space as well that I'm pursuing within. So it was just, that was the starting line. And then as you do this you start to realize that, I mean it sounds obvious but I didn't think I was like, of course the, some of these daring entrepreneurs, right. It doesn't just happen in isolation. There's some level of ecosystem, um, everything has to, to come together and then you start to realize it. Like maybe the only ones that you actually find are Always like it's almost like a very non systemic consensus which matches with my initial thinking. But then of course it means you also have to build up the ecosystem so that you can produce not just the founders, but the employees of the founder, the technical talent, the support system, the financing system, system. And then you start to realize, yeah, it's more and more complex. Um, and that's why from Box Play then has this evolution towards the Venture Nest that is more ecosystem driven. And I think also around that time I started thinking a lot around. I mean I mentioned to you earlier in the investment bank, I uh, the way I was seeing is like we wanted to drive the industrialization but when you look at the continent, Ghana, it's like there are certain general purpose technologies. Right. We, electricity is still a problem.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Ghana, we are even doing pretty well. But generally speaking this is now a technology more than 100 years ago. And that industrialization drive is basically. Yes, we want to bring that up. The ability I think around it is like that technology should be like almost a base requirement. Of course we still have to do it. But then there comes the question, what do you do with basically the new general purpose technologies that are now. Whether that's AI robotics, blockchain, whatever it is. Right. It's like how do we ensure that 20 years, 50 years, 100 years down the line is not the kind of the same picture. Right. That we are now trying to play catch up when it has become so widespread in so normalized. So that was a lot of what I was thinking around. So I guess that was the other evolution that eventually with boxplay I'm thinking around, yeah, where do you find those founders? But then also how do we find ways and means to support those founders to utilize and drive those new tech?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I guess and now I'm talking a lot because I kind of got lucky in the sense that yeah, I got this zipline opportunity.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I mean I tell people like with zipline I almost felt like it's a blip in time because you see that they are driving one of those general purpose technologies on the continent. Right?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But then I don't see the possibility that this company could have been built by a Ghanaian in Ghana based on, yeah. All the things that I'd mentioned before, supply chain technology, technical talent, so on and so forth. So it always almost felt like in an ideal world if Box Play Venture Nest, of course in collaboration with other ecosystem players succeed, we would want to create an ecosystem that let's say 15, 20 years down the Line. A young transformational Ghanaian founder can build that company.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker B: And so it was kind of just tempting that, oh, I kind of have that opportunity to kind of experience that and drive it.
Speaker A: Uh, yeah.
Speaker B: Myself, which is, uh, kind of an anomaly system. But that's kind of the. A little bit of the thinking around box play, the evolution to where I've been getting. And then right now with box play, I'm starting to look at it more systemically. Right. And that's why I mentioned at some point, from founder discovery towards the exit.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then when you look at that, you start to realize there's so many challenges.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So that's why with Venture Nest and with Boxplay as well, we're doing collaborations. We go to closer to the students, try and find entrepreneurial talent. Where are those pools? How can we bring those people together so that we can segment them and give them access to different opportunities depending on who they are. Somebody is a technical talent. Somebody could be a great employee. Somebody.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is that transformational founder. But how do we build those pools of people? And then once we do that, how can we give them small money? And I mean small money.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because I feel like in the beginning it should be small money. And if we want to be successful, we cannot be thinking around, I need a hundred thousand dollars. As a young founder.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: Looking at our market, you should be able to stretch far less and still be effective.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: If you're really a good founder, there's opportunities to find. Find talented people and move things forward. But then once you do that, the next. Who gives you the next money.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: And then which ideas can we build? M. Because what I'm always saying is like ultimately, and I mean, no foreigners to blame because you can only invest into what you understand.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So there's certain things that we. You can clearly see the problem. Right. And when you tell, let's say somebody who is not coent with our market, uh, are you sure the market is big enough? And the data might not be there to that extent.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But every Ghanaian will know, of course that market is big enough. Right?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But the data might not be there. But then of course that therefore cannot be founded by somebody who doesn't deeply understand the market or is in the market. So if we have really local funding pools.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: What it means is like it's a different set of problems that can now actually be tackled.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: hopefully at some point or in a very near future, that means that I'm kind of going back more into the finance space. Not Investment banking as a day, but in terms of attracting funding pools that have more local context. Right. And can then support these kind of founders at different stages. So that will be a variety of instruments. Let me if I would say so. But that's kind of it. We want to build that. Um, yeah, I'm looking for the right word. There's a word that I use in real time, but no, I was using it. But it's like an assembly, like assembly line. Yes, but that's not the word. The pipeline.
Speaker A: Sorry.
Speaker B: That's what I was looking for. So kind of building the pipeline. And the most important ingredient in that pipeline still is the founder, but then there's other things that we need to build around. So that's what we are trying to piece together. And we know we can do it. But then there's other people in the ecosystem. Somebody's good at one aspect of that pipeline. How can we connect and kind of build that?
Speaker A: So.
Speaker B: And maybe just to end this, I mentioned the exit.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then when you go back it's like how, how do you exit in the Ghanaian market?
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean I had a friend and this is not startup related. It's generally for SMEs.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And he told me that the Ghanaian exit MHM is to steal money from your company. And then when you think around it, if I tell you like the way he lays it out is like. Because it's like somebody's running a company.
Speaker C: Right?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It's having 100, 150 employees. Has been running for years. And then the breakthrough or the breakthrough in quotes for himself is like he now gets, let's say 3 million US dollar loan M. And that is when he buys his house. That's when he takes money out and actually has like.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: A significant. Yes.
Speaker A: Cash.
Speaker B: But of course that is to the detriment of the company that he's growing and building. And you see it in the succession. Right. Eventually when that founder is no longer there, he goes down.
Speaker A: Goes down. Yeah.
Speaker B: Yes. And he was, then he was telling me. But it's because there is no exit. Because where is the exit opportunity for those founders? Of course it's to some level, maybe a simplification. And of course you still should. I mean you should have the separation between your company and everything. But when you think around it in our market is like a relevant example. So the question becomes where is that exit?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I mean now of course one exit is being bought by a foreign company. I guess that's like, like that's the. That's probably the best, the best outcome for, especially for a tech company. Right. But they need to be. Then there needs to be other avenues. So how can we also build that? And I have a, uh, there. I have a lot of ideas that I want to go into.
Speaker A: Yeah, I mean clearly from your experience, I'm sure there are lots you have explored practically and locally to know the outcome of that, those, those, those tools or those channels you want to, you want to use. Yeah. Maybe I want to draw you back a bit into um, your zipline rule where you lead as a, um, I don't know, Managing director, Ghana Country.
Speaker B: Country director.
Speaker A: Yeah. Country director, country director, Ghana. Yeah. Um, Zipline for many years have. Has been noted for being one of the most innovative companies in the world. I mean for many years. And you uh, are. You have, you have also experienced like building locally and now you are in a multinational company and seeing how some, you mentioned like public people cannot build because of maybe lack of talent, skills, resources and all that in the experience in also building that connection, how best do you think founders can approach solving like complex problems or maybe simple problems with um, something say or a way to see complex solutions? Because yeah, uh, drone people are building drone systems and things now. But how can they build a business like Zipline? How can they sub like Zipline? How can they um, broker partnerships like such institutions? You don't have to give your secrets out. I just want to.
Speaker B: No, no, no. I mean I'm s. But I mean you have to look when I say you cannot build, it's like even just like the investment level required. Right. And I mean it's publicly available. You can go and check how much. Yes, exactly.
Speaker A: I think the Last race was 800 million USD.
Speaker B: Exactly. Oh, you did your homework. No, no, exactly. So you can, I mean there's a lot of aspects and then of. But ultimately I think with really deep understanding and local pools, there's a number of problems that we could actually solve. And it's like especially now, it. It's seems to me that there's probably a relatively good probability m that we had a dawn of like a new golden age in terms of technology. Right. And I know people, a lot of people disagree with me when I make those points. But I don't think that looking back over the last hundred years, it was that golden age. Of course in terms of computer technology, like chip technology, more Moore's Law, a lot evolved. But when you look in the physical world, it's like if you go back a hundred plus years, you would have people that within their lifetime, the time it took maybe to travel from Europe or from Africa to us would have shortened significantly. Right?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: All of a sudden they were in a plane. You know how in a car you have electricity. Uh, and I don't think we saw that kind of change. But I think right now there is a reasonable probably possibility that we could have like rapid changes happening. And there is, there is opportunity there for new ecosystems as well. There's opportunities there for founders here.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But I think like the key would be to really deeply understand the problems that we're solving. It's like do you don't approach it the way Zipline approaches it.
Speaker C: Mhm.
Speaker B: Because there is problems that you could solve. I mean, I'm giving you examples, like things that fascinate me. Right. I was living in Lagos.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And Accra is 500km away. Right. You have like you would. So technically you have a road that is combining four major cities of four countries. Four, five. And it's just 500 kilometers. Now you want to go with the bus. You know how difficult. I mean it will take you 10, 12, 13 hours, whatever. You're sitting relatively uncomfortable. A lot of challenges on, on the trip that you experience interruptions by um.
Speaker A: Exactly. Immigration officers and all, all of those things.
Speaker B: And then when I was back in Europe, when I went to do my mpa, right. I went, I used the bus to go from Zurich to, to Nice.
Speaker A: Yeah. Ah. And that's from Swiss to France.
Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And what was fascinating to me is because you see, I had been in Ghana like for a stretch of like eight, nine years. I found it fascinating when at the, the filling station, the driver just hopped off.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And the new driver came in. Um, the just swapped.
Speaker A: Interesting.
Speaker B: And it's like, I mean it's simplistic, but what does it take? Right? There's a level, you need a system where there is some level of trust, accountability embedded. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because usually what happens is in our case is like even if, if you can come back with the bus, great. If not, your driver is probably sleeping in that car.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you look at how many times can you go in between. So this means that bus is never resting. So there's a lot of time.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: Efficiencies, non monetary costs.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker B: When you enter that, the TR at the beginning, there's people there that who tell you where to go. They're not formally employed, but everybody's getting money out of the system. So again, inefficiencies in some form. So what I'm saying is like, if you really understand it deeply, there's a lot of business model innovation that one can build. And now we have the tech that probably if you think from ground up you can build a system that even in a developed country, because there's some legacy systems that are. There is done with like there's 10 big parts. Right. To get it to execute. If you think around it, probably with modern technology, you can build it with just two parts and we have the chance because we haven't built the foundation. So if you could really develop from ground up, you can do a lot. But I think it has to be embedded in that business model innovation thing. And I, I think, I mean some people of course have already found ways and means to build relatively large companies on the continent.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, but when I say it's like you also ask yourself, when can somebody build a company that then employs 50, 100,000, 700 probably.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: People and all those kind of things. But, um, I probably deviated a bit from what you, what you're saying. But my ultimate response is we shouldn't be building the same companies, we should build different companies because ultimately the companies are built. Right. To solve certain challenges. And our deep understanding of the challenges will differentiate us in a way that no foreigner can build that company in the same way.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I always use Nigeria as the example or sorry, Nigeria has multiple companies in the fintech space that are valid a billion dollars or more. Right. But when you're in Nigeria, fintech, I mean it's not solved. It's super frustrating. It's worse than in Ghana. I mean some people might be, but if you live there, you have experiences that will drive you crazy.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So you look at that and he was like, no, this country with this size, if somebody truly, truly solves, and I know there's complexity from all like legalities, regulatory and so much more. But if you truly solve the problem from the root up, that company rolls over the that company is solving in Nigeria, you roll over the continent.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you become one of
Speaker C: the
Speaker B: large companies in this world. So I think there is opportunities, but it has to be differentiated.
Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so maybe before Poga comes in, I know you have experienced what it means solving a problem from a route, especially with one of your investment investments in video which you mentioned. I, I believe if I'm right, if I'm wrong, correct me. You mentioned to them earlier on that the business model was with was not going to have the outcome you expect or you want the business to have.
Speaker C: So you would.
Speaker A: If they change, if they should make some iterations to the business, you'd be interested in coming in, which they did. And truly the business took off in another direction and, uh, I'm sure it's on a, uh, continuous growth. How did you, how did you identify that? That. I mean, how do you observe that the business shouldn't or shouldn't be in a particular way and they should, um, iterate or transform into another form which would help them in scaling and becoming a better or bigger business?
Speaker B: Yeah, please. I mean, the first thing is I don't. I'm not taking credit for their people.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: It's not towards you. I mean, it's just a general comment, but is it. When I met, it was a delivery company.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I had seen delivery companies. I had seen the challenges and I had seen the level of competition. Now, don't understand me. M Wrong.
Speaker C: The.
Speaker B: The business, the fulfillment business, still very competitive. Like still a very hard business.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It's just that I had seen and you know, I'm sure you know multiple people in Ghana that have started a delivery company with one bike, two bike. But several.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And you have. I'm sure you have heard horror stories. So I just had seen a lot around it. And when you now talk about the fulfillment business, I just see, I mentioned before that differentiation of like a local problem. I see more opportunity to differentiate yourself and solve the problem from the ground up. And I think they have done that in so many little aspects. Right. That is not. I mean, when you say like somebody is coming, like you pluck a fulfillment company from abroad. Right. But then we have a large market that is, there's no trust.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And they want to pay cash.
Speaker A: Yeah. On, um, M. And upon arrival.
Speaker B: Upon arrival. And I mean there is the instance. Oh, that's not good for business. You have to change it. But then there's like, no, probably. There's also the aspect of maybe what are other solutions that you can integrate it. Of course you eventually want to build the trust and everything, but there's so many aspects. Then it's like, how do you get packages, uh, from A to B? It's like, yeah, people go to the TR station and they pro gave a pack and it arrives. It's maybe not the ideal solution, but can you leverage that? Can you use that? You now realize they're not weighing it.
Speaker C: Right.
Speaker B: They'll say, oh, you brought me two.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Or you brought three. And they are charging in accordance. Can you repackage it and make it one and then Unpack it again. It's like, that's what I mean with. It's like you have to embed it in the system and in that way it becomes a different company than the foreign company and the foreign company will actually not be able to give that
Speaker A: kind of specialized solution.
Speaker B: So so anyway, so but I would say to back to your question is just around for the delivery. I would say it's just pattern recognition and seeing a lot of horror and then for the fulfillment side it's just. And my belief, my maybe differ even to the founders and what they are seeing. But I always also felt like E commerce might not take off in that same manner and there might be a larger component of social commerce. And then when you look at a social commerce the logistics will hold people back. Because yes, if you are an influencer and you have maybe yes, you can reach 10,000 people wanting your T shirts or, or whatever you are selling. Yeah, but how do you distribute it effectively? Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I felt like that's, that's an opportunity to have like that backbone of social commerce and then eventually there's also a business opportunity to tie it to the front end because I guess there's also a lot of development now even more than back then with AI and everything in terms of the content generation and everything. So uh, but ultimately, ultimately it's just the size of the problem and that differentiation or putting in the local context that was interesting to me.
Speaker A: Yeah, that. I mean it's nice the founder like took the observation and they pivoted and built a really big business. So yeah, great seeing what they're doing. Yeah, maybe anything for you.
Speaker C: Um, so I think you mentioned a couple of times um, having local ah, funding pool. Um, basically I want you to delve in a little bit more, more into that. What that should look like or what that should be. What would be like the optimal solution. Um, does foreign capital not understand the market enough to have that patient capital? Um, local funding could be better. What's your perspective on that? What should the uh, local funding pool look exactly?
Speaker B: I mean I'm smiling because I might still need that. The other money too.
Speaker A: I do. Right?
Speaker B: No, but yeah, 10x for me in terms of truly solving the problem, 10x 100x better. And then there's also the thing where uh, is it. I mean you can go out and looking for founders. There's a lot of founders that are uh, building solutions based on the funding pots available.
Speaker A: Definitely, definitely.
Speaker B: And one of the things, I mean maybe I shouldn't mention but one of the things is, um, clean tech, sustainability. Right. And we are doing things in that space. But all I'm saying is, like, a lot of these founders are building in that space.
Speaker A: Yeah. For the solution to solve a problem.
Speaker B: No, they're there because they feel that's where they can.
Speaker A: Just fans. Yeah.
Speaker B: Yes. And then truly. Truly, you always have to ask yourself, is this the actual solution we need at this stage of our development?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Then of course, there is things where you can't go against the tide because you don't want to do something.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: To now build the system for 50 years ago. So you have to of course, go into the direction. It's like you don't want to build a system where everyone is moving towards electric cars and you think, oh, it's not right for my stage anymore. But then 50 years or 20 years later, you end up even further back because you didn't adapt. So there's nuance to it. But I think that's ultimately, that's the problem is like there's a lot of grand calls. You look at them, it's like.
Speaker A: But I think, I mean,
Speaker B: of being on the ground.
Speaker A: Yeah. Like Web three and why taking shots.
Speaker C: Web three.
Speaker A: Oh, no, no. I mean, he's been frank. He mentioned Cliptech. I thought personally maybe I think like Web3. Web3 is one of those things. Not, not that it's not making any change, but there's a problem at hand to be solved. Why do we sometimes jump ahead where even in things like claim web2 we are not. There's still like a lot of people to get there. And we are, we are skipping it. And yeah, it's. It's attractive. It gets the funding, it gets the attention. So, yeah, people try to build some of those solutions and they go far too ahead. And I mean, we've known that one of the biggest selling to like start affiliates is timing. Like, yeah. Just you can. You can get the funds, but when the timing is wrong, it's wrong. Like the fans will just bend and. Yeah. You can't do anything about it.
Speaker B: Yeah. But I mean, there's nothing wrong with, I would say web3, but with any of them, it's the question of even within that space, whether it drives us to actually look at the problem first.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then select what is the actual thing, what is required to solve that problem.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And if you can have blockchain in there, which I think has a lot of utility, a lot of things, or a lot of the problems we have. If you embed it, it's Great.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But then the challenge I see is that the money actually in our case directs a lot of the problems that get solved. And I think the difference local funding pots would, could make is that it changes the set of problems that can be solved. Um, but when you say that of course in an ideal world, right. You have a founder who is a true founder who built his business here and that founder has an exit. Right. And has now $10 million. And now that founder goes back to have a small VC fund or to invest directly into the next generation of founder. And of course that found that will be different.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So to some extent you can say maybe those are chicken and egg problem because you need those kind of exits in order for that contextual local, uh, funding pool to be there.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Now there's of course other people with money in Ghana, but usually I say like, honestly I feel in Ghana with a certain amount of money and access and connection, it's almost too easy.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: To make money. Like from a return perspective.
Speaker C: Yes.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: There's real estate opportunities. Once you have like multiples. Yeah. You have a million dollars and you have connections and you know how to go. It's like it's very hard for startup to compete from a risk like analysis standpoint. So you actually need people who really understand the market, but you need people who are actually really passionate about solving problems and driving it from the ground up. Because if you just look at risk to benefit, it's like no. So a lot of these people won't invest. And I think again, you know this, you know our ecosystem well. I mean I've seen a lot of people that say they want to invest in startup, but the idea of investing in startup is then checking on the founder daily on basically comparing the ex. The forecast, the prediction, whether it's meeting.
Speaker A: It's meeting it.
Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And want to be met.
Speaker A: Yeah. And the returns should be coming a certain month or a certain quarter, a certain year. Uh, just because that's, that's the kind of investment they know or they have experienced.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: So in your experience, how do we work with such people? I mean high net worth individuals coming. Because thankfully you uh, you, you have a st with them. You've had some experience with some of these clients.
Speaker B: Y.
Speaker A: How do we work with them? How do we make the entrepreneur space attractive to them?
Speaker B: I mean it might sound overly simplistic. Right. But ultimately talk is cheap.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: I can say all these things is like if I build a company and I have a certain success. Mhm. I will attract Right. If I'm that founder that has that 10 million dot exit and I now have $10 million reinvesting.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: If I approach my. The probability is like, of attract, uh, convincing. Some of them increases.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So to some extent it starts from ourselves. We just have to get better and more ambitious as an ecosystem system. Right. In order to attract. And we cannot. We can. Like I was giving the example. But at the same time. Yeah. I cannot expect somebody who has made his money. Right. To come in for a riskier investment just like that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Then of course you can do a risky investment, but then there has to be some level of upside. The upside doesn't always need to be monetary.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But so we need. The burden at the end of the day is on us, uh, to provide that evidence. But that's the challenge about change. Right. As you go into. To change, you become part of the system.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Almost have to, like in my case, it's like if you speak to me three, four years ago and I've not done anything, but my talk is very harsh, very aggressive. Right. And then you go into it and then you start to see the problem and you start to know the people that are part of the problem and everything and it becomes harder to speak truth.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: But ultimately for me is like in startup world, but also in building the ecosystem, the closer we are to truth, the higher the chance of having that success.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: attracting that capital. Yeah. It takes like us having initial success. M. True success. Not. Not paper.
Speaker A: Paper money or audio money. I think at best that's how we credit.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we, we, we need to have the, the vehicle, like the opportunities have to be there and we can't expect that we get the money first. We have to showcase something. Right. Is like, yeah, we brought the Nigerian example and there's. It's not rosy. I mean, I see a lot of challenges there and everything. But of course, it's like once you had the first big ones, it enabled others to raise big funds. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then of course, again, they might now prove that, yes, there is opportunity or they might not do the right thing with the money and then it goes into the other direction. But I think that's ultimately it. And then now the easiest thing is like, if I now boil it down to myself around everything that I'm talking, it's like you go into the system and it's very easy, you start to lower. It's very easy to start lowering your standards, uh, having some level of compromise.
Speaker C: Ah.
Speaker B: And being fed up of maybe Always being the one calling things out. But that is when you move away from truth. M. And for myself, hopefully over the next. I mean, I'm very, very, very, very restless.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: Right now.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Very restless. Which means that I feel like I'm at a stage where I have to go back to not in. Not in with the same naivety, but into very aggressive risk taking and just make things happen. I think there's nothing else.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And even when I talk around, I want to. We want to build the African system or the Ghanaian ecosystem and everything. It's like. Or we want to drive development for me. And that might be maybe the western part of my brain or anything. It's like I feel uncomfortable. M. If we don't have a seat at a table in global matters.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: How can the world go into a direction? We have nothing to say. We are just there and it's. Whatever happens, we are just collectively, we are just passing.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: We are just passengers. Right. But then again, it's like that example, even on, uh, you individually, what I say with my parents is like, if you, if you're not the one contributing and doing it, you can't determine. Right. So in my case, it's like I wanted to then, okay, go. And then you fail and then you figure things out or you don't. But what I'm trying to say with that is that for us to be able to solve global problems, for us to have that level of determined generation, we need to kind of earn it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And it's the same in this, in this kind of thing is like we can be pointing around, oh, the big man or this one. They are not giving us the money and not doing this. But then you have to find a way to do building by its podcast. Right.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: With I'm sure a lot of background story, a lot of limited resources. Have to make it look good.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Have to do whatever and get it to a certain level. And then people can start to support you.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And give you something. It's like. But when you just speak around it before and you think, like, Caleb can talk.
Speaker C: Well.
Speaker B: M. So you would keep convincing me. It's like, no, I, uh, mean, you just have to find a way, put a camera on you and start one or two and then maybe I'll come and join and support. So I think that's the same thing for the ecosystem ultimately.
Speaker A: Yeah. I think this has been a great conversation. Um, we definitely have to continue somewhere somehow. Uh, I think we didn't even get into like the Venture Skill Conversation, which I think you'd really be interested in that. But we'll be coming that up to that soon. So thank you so much. Dana has been glad. A pleasure having you.
Speaker C: Maybe you could have some last words. Uh, how therefore founders building, um, in the Ghanaian and African ecosystem, what will be your last word of advice to them?
Speaker B: I mean founders, there's different levels, right. So maybe pre context the ones I'm speaking to for me is like really people that want to solve problems want to have an impact. So. And the truth is, starting small doesn't limit you. I think a lot of founders have the perception that starting small means you are limiting your growth. But it is different. What it means to start small is, means that you define your niche and you make sure you in quotes, you win. Yeah, right. Like you dominate that market and then you build from there rather than going too broad. So I think for most founders, I would say is like find a way to be very niche in, in the market. In the, you go to market strategy in the market you are tackling but have a big vision at the same time because. So the vision is different than for your market entry strategy. And it's like really spend time thinking around it and understand that the bigger you do your initial, um, entry, the more resources you require. And ultimately most of the time that's what kills you. Even if you get somebody else's money still it's, it most likely won't be enough.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So ultimately start small whilst having big vision.
Speaker A: Yeah, so starts for us, uh, having big vision. Thank you so much, Daniel. Thanks so much for our uh, audience for watching, listening. We would love to hear what you think about this. Um, how should you build? Where should you build? I do, I mean, do you agree with Daniel on focusing on niches or whichever one you want to do? So stay focused, uh, share a comment, let us know what you think, um, in the comment section. Thank you and see you soon on our next episode. Bye bye.
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