From mNotify to AI: Ronald Tagoe’s 14-Year Tech Journey

Speaker A: Welcome to Building Bytes where we tell a relevant story to drive innovation and growth in Ghana's digital ecosystem. Building Bytes is brought to you by Inside Lab with support from Hottest Studio and we record in the studios of hopetor Academy building byte S on MX24 every Thursday at uh 8 o' clock to 9pm and repeats on Sunday at uh, 7 o' clock to 7pm Today we have a very interesting guest, one who's building in the ecosystem for about 15 years now.

Speaker B: Yeah, next year.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean um, we talk about his story and you see he's a pioneer in the industry that has been building pioneered in areas such as AI and chatbots in Africa. Um, he started way from, way back from school building um, companies. So um, I'll let him introduce himself. Um, Ronald, introduce yourself and what you do.

Speaker B: So yes, I'm Ronald Tegu. I always say I'm the Chief Engagement Officer of EM Notify or Achieve Engagement. Because at the core what we do at EM Notify is engagement, customer engagement, any way you want to engage your audience. We try to look for a platform for you to do that, so be it. Sms, voice, AI, chatbots, automation, that is all we do. So yeah, so that's EM Notifying AI powered customer engagements and digital solutions company helping businesses to unlock exponential growth. So m, if you are looking to grow your company, that's what we do. We help you engage to grow.

Speaker A: Awesome, awesome. Great, great. Um, let's talk about, let's start from the past, talk about you, your journey a little bit. Um, how did he get into entrepreneurship? I mean why did he get into entrepreneurship? Um, I'm sure you talk about you know, if the challenges but did you find it interesting? What was the motivation at that point?

Speaker B: So my entrepreneurial journey has been quite interesting and I mean if I need to start, I need to start from way back when I was in primary um school. So my dad had his own uh, business. He was the first to start that kind of business actually in our area in Spintex. Um and by then he was also working in the bank and doing that as a side hustle. So I had to help out with that business. Right. It was trucks so I had to manage. Help manage trucks or water, uh, and cesspit as well. So that's a uh, waste. Right. So I helped manage that as ah far back as Class 6. Then I go into GSS and I'm the third child so my big brother about 10 years older than me, always wearing designer waist and all of that. I know as a little One I would always want to flex. So my friends were like where do I get my dress and all that? So rather than taking them to where I get it from from I. What I do is that I tell my brother that let's go early in the morning to Cantamanto. I get some um, clothes designs and all that. And I was doing that in GSS then in essence I want to presect the best. I think the Ghana entrepreneurs group will

Speaker C: have a lot of things to say.

Speaker B: Yeah. Recently we had a Ghana tech group and there was a whole precinct debate over there. Yeah. Yeah. So. So I went to PR and I mean my dad has always helped us not to feel entitled. So how do I come from the world to do family? We we're not giving everything on a silver platter. Right. So I had to um. I wasn't, I was doing science and I was part of the IT club. So I was burning CDs and softwares to the business guys and making small, small money from there. Then fast forward it was a good business but I got shut down because it's illegal to do that in prec. So I was punished for like a week. A week of waiting for that. But post that as well. I went to university and in second year I lost my dad. But I was studying computer science and being a TED born not feeling entitled and wanting to be independent. I decided why don't, don't I do something with the computer science skills that I'm learning? Which school did you so knust? Also the best technical.

Speaker A: Whether I like it or not, they've produced one of the best entrepreneurs.

Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. I mean and, and I'm always proud to see that the same time we started a notified there was pharma line, there was Vutomobile which is now Viamo M and we all started in the same space, a space called Tech Hub M Friday. And we are all doing so amazing and, and it's always so. I mean tech is a, is a place to be if you want to do tech entrepreneurship. I mean that is what I would say. But yeah. So fast forward second year I lost my dad, wanted to be independent, started building like softwares, websites and all of that. Then my roommate at the time, what we used to do was that we used to go around um, events and write uh, names and phone numbers. Right. Then if, let's say someone is running for SRC president, they'll just come to us and we send the blast for them. But we're using a foreign platform. And one day I was I told my roommate that, I mean we are computer science guys, we've been hustling but why don't we be the people that have the platform? So aside we send. Alice can also send that. And I wanted to do it in a way that I could get all the contacts of. I was. So this was in second year, which year? Um, so I, I don't see when I finish. I finished in 2013, so maybe minus um, two.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker B: So that's um. 2011. Yeah, 2011. Yeah. Yes, it was 2011. Right. So um, so we, we built a platform and after I built a platform I wanted to be greedy. I didn't want to be hustling, going around for contacts. Right. So we pitched it to the src. Um, the guy who was running for SRC that year I think was not Phil, but there was one guy. And so the nice thing is that now all the most of the politicians are put that from knees. I would have worked it before and it's quite beautiful how some of them are now involved in politics. And so we pitched it to him, he agreed it didn't work out. But then as fit to have. We're part of M Friday, a group that was mentoring students into entrepreneurship and they had a chance, we had a chance to meet a vc. He liked the idea and we built it into a student's notification system. Right. Which is that beyond just events and all that, if, let's say you have a paper, uh, we have a timetable feature where okay, I have a paper on Tuesday. Okay, get an SMS alert. There's an event for college of Science. You get an SMS alert and all that. And I'm happy to say that today it's actually been used And I always proudly also say that when I was in school I was still making money off students because then there was, there was I think about five cities that was on everybody's school fees that was coming for mary got the 5 CD. But I mean it was, it was, it was a proud feeling because I knew that I was doing something that was actually pain. So I mean post that um, my grades were not that bad so I was a ta. Um following TA reality hit. I had to then now decide if I'm doing an entrepreneurship full time or not. So I worked in the bank for a while and realized that no, I need to do this as a full time job. So focusing on it full time we then realized okay, let's go beyond um, just sms. Let's go beyond just university. So we got churches and that's when we introduced voice SMS as well. But some of the churches want to engage in local language and all of that. So they added voice sms. We got NCA license and everything was um, sort of now official then fast forward. I mean then the story continues from there. Right. And I'm sure we'll get into that. But that's my entrepreneurial story. I didn't see that um 10 years ago I knew I'd be working full time for Emotify. I mean I come from a family of bankers to be fair. My dad was a banker, my big brothers are bankers. So I thought maybe I'll finish. I work in the bank and I'm in fair to have it. I worked in the bank for a while and realized I mean probably that's not why I should be doing right. So that is, that is how my

Speaker C: journey I think I'm always excited I mean about K and how they handle student relationship very well. Uh because it's, it's interesting like K leaders are very open to students conversation and I've seen it multiple times myself have like experience. I think at the point just went to see P that oh I think our social media was terrible. Like they can do better and like P introduced me to the team and it was interesting. Like I didn't think it would go that far. I mean somebody random. I was not even doing anything social media I just felt it was even better. That's why I went to share my mind and they shared to the team and not long from there I think yeah they improved significantly. They took like that feedback. So I'm really glad like um, I mean that support they give and they're still working with you.

Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. Without KN I don't think there would ever have been an MN5 story because that is, that is the, that's where we got the right foundation and that is where we actually had people that believed in what we were doing. So I mean they introduced us to Vodafone at the time. Uh so we had a collaboration with Vodafone and that also like sort of pushed our brand further as well. So without kns I don't think, I mean it would have just been another bulk SMS company. I would have died after 3 or 4 it was several coming but some of this, these partnerships and these relationships is what has brought us this far.

Speaker A: Awesome. So back to M Notify. When did you step into a notify full time? What year was that?

Speaker B: That was about seven or eight years ago. So I worked in there. So we can calculate I worked in the bank for about four years. Then I realized that this is not my call. So no. So I. 2013, National Service, 2014. So 2018. Yes. Was when I started full time. Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, awesome. Um, so how was the les? Like, how was the team? Like, who did you start with?

Speaker B: That's an amazing question. So, so, so when we started them, Notify. So actually two of us. Right. To be fair. So I had, I had a co founder called Godwin. Um, we had to split up at a point. I mean I can share stories about that later on, but. But um, it was. Myself and Godwin were in the same class, computer science. Um, my roommates at the time. He was also interested in the programming bit, but at a point he had to drop off and focus on his own things. And I think, um, one of the key lessons, maybe just to jump from that, is that sometimes you start as a group but eventually people fall off. And similar to Alibaba's story, I don't even know that very well. Like a huge group eventually fall off. Yeah. And even in class there are others that built part of the codes because I mean it was fancy, we were doing something interesting, exciting, but eventually people fall off and all that. So yeah. So in the early days it was mainly myself and Godwin, but I had like other coursemates that came in and out and all of that. Then in uh, final year we recruited our first developer, Derek, who up to now is a very good friend of mine. Shout outs to Derek Lamptey. So he was our first employee and we're paying him and at the time we're not paying ourselves. So he didn't pay ourselves about like two or three years. Yeah. And that is actually also the other reason why.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: So no. So this was in school. So in final year we had our first employee because then we're focusing on defense and other things. So we can't be juggling and fun fact. I was the first class today before Emotify started. When Emotified I dropped, but it was a strong upper right. But I just told you the demands of like running a business and also like as a student business and also combine that with academic. Because what we used to do was that in the morning. So my routine was the same every time in the morning. I'll go for first lecture at 8 o'. Clock. On my way back I'll get watchi from engineering guest houses. Engineering git? Yeah, Engineering git. After the watchi, I'll go back. So I was in Delisa.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah. So out around Kuti. So from there I'll go back out. Um, I would work a little, go to my uh, co founders uh hostel would work a little. Then 2pm we'll go for the next lecture. Then we come back. So it was, it was quite stressful. Right. So we got our first employee fourth year. Then we also got someone to manage uh sales. Go one sales space now. So because sales is what we needed the most. Right? Yeah. Then post that. We got a small office in the tech hub. So there was a space on Kenya school they take out. So that was our office for a while. Viamo m at the point that was their office as well. Farmer line. That was the office at the point as well because that was where all the action was happening together with other startups. Then we finished school. Then uh, we had to have an official office line and I had one which is still my official line. Although I have, I have an official line. People still call that line every time. So what will happen is when I was in the bank for example sometimes I'll be in meetings and I'll be having a notified calls. I remember one time so. So one time I was experimenting with an idea saru app and when empty and apps challenge the finals we actually, we actually won the lifestyle category. I think this was also in like 2018. So it was after I won that that I resigned. So that was I think in 2018.

Speaker C: How much did you win for S Because I mean you are definitely resigned.

Speaker B: So that was for me. So. So before that uh, before the finale I said a secret prayer in my heart that if God really wants me to do m notify full time and do entrepreneurship full time. Let me win. Yeah something from MTN Challenge. So if I'd won something I knew okay it was time for me to go full time. If I didn't want then, then that was it. And guess what? My mom too didn't like the idea of me resigning to do interview. My dad was an entrepreneur. He had his business but he was working on the side. And my mom too. My mom's dad was an entrepreneur. He's seen how um enrolling since time entrepreneurs can be bullied and all of that. So I was like in Ghana, entrepreneurship is not this. So when I said my for my job I actually didn't tell my mom. So after like two months I thought I was on leaving. Eventually I'm done right. But yeah, so we won empty enough Shannon that was a sign for me to move on. And that's when I actually decided to Then focus full time on, on emotion. Which has been like one of the biggest blessings of my life. Honestly. I always say that I'm. I feel like I'm living my dream because I don't feel like I'm working. Although like I wake, I think I work minimum or nine hours.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I'll be worrying.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I'm sure you see the times I respond to your message. Right. And I as a customer centric company, like a customer engagements company, I don't joke with customer feedback. So on um, most of customer groups I am on there. If no one is responding, Even if it's 1am I make sure I respond let you know that would get to the bottom of that. And that has been the ethos of the company. From D1 whoever was handing the phone we made sure that you were reporting. Well we're also from the back monitoring order you were doing and everything. So the early days, I mean it was exciting managing school and I remember our first customer, um one of our early customers, latex foam as well. And um it was from our mentor ah Pierre. He's in the US now. He was one of the founders of M Friday and his ideology was that our initial customers have to be Lebanese. Right. Because they'll pay small money but they'll demand a lot. No one wants to be a stereotype but they'll demand a lot. By doing that you make sure whatever you building is very solid. Right.

Speaker C: Huh.

Speaker B: So that was. So imagine like we go and miss these Lebanese guys. They drill us a lot. You come back, you finish, you have to go and learn med and amongst all of this you are just balancing. So we started in mn. Yeah we started MN in Kumasi in K. Right, yeah. So and our first office was in Kumasi so it was in Bomsu around um something junction uh from ah I know just after take junction the next junction. Ah no, no. This is not just from tech junction. If you are going into a doom, that's the next junction before the junction that enters into bombs.

Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, yeah the bombs gate side. Okay.

Speaker B: Is down there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that was, that was where we had our first. In our first office we had uh the company secretary over there who was handling the phone. Then eventually students. I mean we're more of like celebrities and stuff School right? Every couple. Exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So carelessly makes noise about M. So we're also getting free intense and national. So we had one full time staff which is Derek but then he was working with a few and he was experienced and actually older than us as well. Right. So. And, and that was the other thing that we had to learn how to work with people older than ourselves. Right. And know how to manage communication and all of that. So he was sort of supervising a lot of other entrepreneurs, other uh, developers and all of that while we were figuring out uh, the sales and all that. And I think I, between Godwin and myself, I'm more of an extrovert. So I was doing more like meetings and, and all those things. Right.

Speaker A: That's great. That's good. By looking back, what did building a company as a student taught you that you would say your computer science degree didn't actually.

Speaker B: Oh, a lot. Anyway, shout out to my computer science lectures. They did an amazing job. But I, I strongly believe that in computer science and tech is like the best place. Why do I see that? Let me hype my school. So, so this is the reason why I'll say that although we did. I do computer science. I know accounting because I did accounting for a whole year, two semesters, first year.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I did a cons as well. I did principles of entrepreneurship and in principles, in principles of entrepreneurship, one thing that the, uh, lecturers, we did a whole project, right. Where you would take an idea and you and your friends would go and commercialize it and at the end of the period come into a presentation on how much money you made from it. And that alone taught me the lesson of separating friendship from business. Because these are guys that were my roommates. We're friends. But at the end of the project, when it came to sharing money, bro, we fought. Some of us didn't talk for like about two weeks. Why? Because I'm pro, worked harder than others. Right. And it's typical in a startup world. We are all passionate. But I, uh, might be more passionate. I might spend more nights. Uh, and then when it comes to, let's say maybe when we start making money, compensation, exactly equal share. But it doesn't always work like that. So I mean the biggest lesson for me has, has been the fact that I needed to separate business from friendship. Right. I didn't do it very early on in life, but I felt if I, if I had to go back, I wouldn't change anything. But maybe I'll just focus more on making sure that I, I was telling some of the last time I'm a vibe space. Like if I like your vibe and tell them, let's do something, I'll just go ahead and do it. Like, I'm a typical spontaneous person, so I might not think a Lot do a lot of paperwork. But when you look back you realize that sometimes the paperwork and all those things actually do count. And if you don't make them count, then that's when friendships end up uh, being thrown under the bus. Right. And entrepreneurship is actually tough in this, in this part of our world. And there are lots of companies that start with co founders and they all split and break up and it's because of some of these things. Right. So I would say the biggest thing is separating friendship from uh, from business. Uh, right. But beyond that, I would say that, I mean it's been an amazing journey. I wouldn't say. Let me. The other lesson. What will be the other lesson?

Speaker C: I'll take from that especially to computer science.

Speaker B: Well, a lot of ways they feel on campus. Yeah, I, I think, I think if you are doing computer science on campus and ah, you want to pass your exam and go, that's when it will be a problem for you. But if you apply yourself to the course, I think you'd learn a lot from computer science in K and est. I mean because I, I, the only missing part for me was that I wasn't applying what I was learning. What I was learning was great. Right. So I just needed to apply what I was learning. Once I applied that, I mean I was, I was more than good. The only challenge was well, managing my time was a bit. I didn't also want to go 40 so I had it. I had a relationship on campus. I mean going back, you would have done whatever you did, right? Yeah, I would have done the same things. I, I believe all the mistakes and all that led me to the point I am now. So I wouldn't want to change anything. But if I'm to advise someone on what to do differently for them, I'll uh, say that first and foremost learn to separate your friendships from your friend from your business. There are people that, for example, were in my class the saw em as a brilliant idea this. They had our code bees, they copied our code and they started their own thing. Initially I was angry about it. Eventually I had to just like, let's go. Right. And I'm, I'm, like I said, I'm a vice person. So I mean when I get a bad vibe, I cut you off. I focus on what I'm doing and make sure that it works. And once it works well and we meet somewhere, yours is working, mine is working, the market is big enough for us, we all make it work.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Are they still in existence?

Speaker B: Clearly, unfortunately they are not hopefully they are not.

Speaker C: But.

Speaker B: Yeah, but I mean like I was saying, if at the time I saw it more as a business relationship than they wanted to help as friends, I would have probably had contracts and stuff that would bar them from doing some of these things. Right. But like I said, I'm a vibe space.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think, I think clearly, I mean I just enjoyed his university.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think, I don't think. I mean I was, I was, I mean I would say the best times of my life was investing. I feel I had an all rounded life. Right. I mean church, I was an instrumentalist, I was playing bass at the point. Drink up. You find me over there. Bless you. For me. But I'm also in class. Not top of my class, but first five, first ten, you find me over there. Right. But I would say, I mean it's just how to balance your time. And it was, it was, it was fun. Right.

Speaker C: And I also don't, I don't know, maybe to. Maybe it's just um, a coincidence, but it also seems a lot of the long standing co founder relationship, especially from KNSC businesses, I've stood the test of time. Interestingly. A lot of, a lot of them are still the test. I don't know, maybe what that could be, what that factor could be. But I don't know, maybe something we have to explore. Whether people in Genesis.

Speaker B: Well, I uh, would also say maybe the kind of mentors that you have also comes because sometimes when you have some of these conflicts, the mentors that have stepping in.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And help with all of that. I always also see that. I think for me if I get a chance to speak to any students who wants to go into entrepreneurship. I do a lot of mentorships for students because I'm a product of mentorship. Right. I told them I always have a mentor. Right. Like I have, I have about five or six mentors. I have mentors. Every aspect of my marriage I have a mentor. My. Because these are people that even if they not worked the work that you are on or the part that you are on, at least they've experienced stuff. They've had stories. They've had stories as well. And they can always help you to refine what you're doing or even just someone to talk to to help you think on the right path. And I think that's. Mentors have really helped um, a lot of this founder relationships understand the test of time. Right. Because then there's a referee.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Even if you split, then it's more cleaner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, awesome. Um, so I want to come back uh, once again to MNS5. So 2018 you went full time. How, how did you approach building like a full time company? Or you're like your, your teasers or like where do you start building? Do you start building the team? You start going to the markets? Um, do you focus on the products? What for you was the core um or the first thing you start working on to build like you know, going to entrepreneurship full time. Make sure you building a successful company

Speaker B: for the long term. So for me it's the customer like I, I mentioned. I uh, I always tell my guys in the office that we are a customer engagements company. You see without a customer we don't have a business. So without a customer you can just do. Cannot just be an engagement company. I mean it doesn't that. So for me it's always been the customer face. So when I left the bank the first thing I did and I'm the bank also taught me a lot. I always tell people that I, I don't close at 5. I find it very difficult to live those. I work in the Nigerian bank and at 5 that is why you are running up your sleeves right? Yeah. So I, the earliest I leave the office is 7:30. Up to now I have fights with my wife about that but that's another topic.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But ah.

Speaker A: I think that's a topic that I would like to delve into.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like family and um, entrepreneur.

Speaker B: I might not be the perfect person for that but. But I can share my, my thoughts. I'm sure my wife watches. I don't think it's only your wife but, but anyway so like start with the customer. Right. So what, what I did and up to now I still do that right. Was we did a customer segmentation. I strongly believe in the 8020 rule, right. That 80% of your revenue is coming from just 20% of your customers. So my goal initially was to find out who are these 80. Who are these 20 guys that are giving us 80 of our revenue. Meet with them, speak with them, how do we keep their business?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Mind you before I resigned, I mean with the although we had the um, MTN money and all that, I made a promise to myself that if I could have one year of my salary as well then I'm like one year I can be comfortable even if no money is coming in and I can survive as an entrepreneur. Right. So I uh, visit some of these guys just to let them know that oh I'm back in the business full time. They need me 24, 7 I'm available. 24. 7 I'm available. Anything they need. What are some other opportunities that they would love to have as work on? What are the features that they would love to see? Because if you use them notifying the LEDs, you notice that every time something new is coming up, like every time we are doing something even now M notify is not even the bulk sms we name the bulk SMS bms. Right. That's because one Ms. Tries to be bigger uh, than just bulk sms. Right. But the first thing was to, to get to the customers, just identify those core customers that will hold the foundation for us. Uh right. So that when we have the peace of mind now, innovate with these guys, build new things, uh, then the next thing was obviously the team. Right. So then I had to think of how we can grow the team then also focus more on the finance as well. And that is where med school we'll talk about. That also came in. Very well understand how you need economics and all that and knowing whether okay, is SMS just a viable business that we can be in the long time, in the long term or we have to add some other businesses. If you have the expertise for software development, do we just do SMS and build features every day or we can develop software for other people and get paid for that as well. So I mean that, that's how I started and that is how I was, I was thinking yeah, okay.

Speaker A: Mhm. So what are ah, some of the challenges maybe in the early days you face and how do you tackle those challenges?

Speaker B: I think, I think my, I'll say my biggest challenge is funding. I always say it's uh, proudly that we've bootstrapped from day one and uh, we are comfortable as a company but the difficult side is that it's mid skilling very difficult for us. But there again me skill helped me to understand skill in a different perspective. That skill is not always about, about um. Expansion. Yeah. It can be in products, it can be in customer segments and that is what we try to do realize okay, maybe let's skill in terms of products and customer segments so maybe we can address newer markets. Right. Rather than maybe expand outside of Ghana because they're still on on top markets in Ghana.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So I'll say the biggest challenge um at the time, which still is is um, funding, getting access to funding. But like I said my dad raised me to be not ah, be an entitled person. So I don't expect investors to Come running at me for the same. I have a good business. I expect to also work on my business with or without investor funding. That is what we've always done as well. So I'll say funding. I'd also say managing um, people. Right, Managing people. I think I was, I, I too, I'm a huge football fan, Chelsea fan by the way. But yeah, I know we are not in cases now but. But I'm a huge Mourinho fan and a huge pep fan. I don't know if you guys follow football, but they have their documentaries out, both of them and ah, which for me I, I feel still brings the rivalry between the two guys. Once Netflix released this and Amazon prime released this as well. But when, if you watch the documentary, one of the things I realize that they are very passionate people and sometimes you can just go off and just go off script, off topic and just say their mind get angry, talk and walk out to them. Realize that in Ghana doesn't work like that. So I'm a very passionate guy. I'm sure you noticed that I've deviated from the conversation several times. But that's because I'm happy about what I'm talking about. Right. But I realized that sometimes when in the spirit of the moment when I say my mind, people might take offense at it and then it tends to like demoralize them. But I mean it's not about you, it's about the work. But I think in this part of the world people don't understand that I've, I've, I've had a chance of working with Germans and uh, a few German corporations. I realized that they are direct, they give you the feedback and it's about the work. And everyone goes and gets direct.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And it's like you are too low. You look at this small boy or your arrogance. But it's just about the work. Right. And that's something I think I've had to like find uh, it hard to deal with. I mean um, with my team sometimes you see, I'm very unreasonable. But I've come to accept that I think maybe those of us who are genius, we are sometimes unreasonable like that. Because I was watching Steve Jobs. Uh, there are. Sometimes they know what they want and they are reasonable adjustments just going the other way. And maybe that is so maybe managing people has, has not been my strength. My wife also argues that, I mean I'm a typical sandwich. So sometimes I also have too much fun with my people. And because of that then now they can also differentiate when it's when it's time to work and when it's time to have fun.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And in this part of our world I think that is one challenge that always like.

Speaker C: Yeah. But just to ask um. I mean are you looking out for funding?

Speaker B: Yes, I think at this, at this point I am um, as. As an entrepreneur.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I'm not looking for funding for um. M notes fire necessarily but I'm looking at going into newer ventures and other ventures as which we can speak on which maybe yes I would be looking for funding for. But I think Emerald's fast as it is now I believe we have. We are matured business with. We've maxed out the opportunities. So now you're looking for other ways to. To scale. So then now. And I wouldn't want to take investment when I'm now figuring out my skill now. I want to at least get some traction before. So you can talk about Impact Air Labs. That's all the things that we are doing around that space. Personally as well I think I, I like the concept of seeing something grew from nothing to something. So I'm also going into farming but looking how we can use tech and AI for real estate as well. Real estate. So, so the funny thing I, I am um. Passionate about real estate but what, what I named my.

Speaker A: You get past.

Speaker B: Yeah I know.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Average problems. I'm not rich yet so I don't have rich food. But my, my, my. The farming that I'm going into. So the concept is real estate but for farming. So it's going to be net houses. So what we call it is the green estates. Right. So it's still. It's real estate but it's for farms and you are doing net houses. So like my goal is to have let's see a uh, huge acre of land and have like several net houses in there. So like they are buildings but they would house ah. Plants and vegetables, not human.

Speaker A: So like um. Maybe indoor farming.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So. So yeah.

Speaker A: Um. How do you call it? The one with the nets around.

Speaker B: Yeah. So it's called a net. So not, not greenhouse. So there's greenhouse and there's nettles. So we are doing net house. You know is a bit expensive. I'm not rich here. So we'll start with the net house. Hopefully maybe we get to add greenhouse there. And my goal is to have let's see maybe about 1015 acre piece of land like farm. Mhm Farmlands One day if I do sell them notify maybe that is when I can probably I can probably invest fully in that. But just a huge uh, property, several buildings on there, like net houses on there and a farmhouse just like away from our crying or the stress.

Speaker A: That's good. But I'm um, particularly interested in um, the feedback that you get from customers. Right. How would you say, um, those feedback that you received from them has particularly shaped um, mnotify over the years.

Speaker B: So M. Notify is who we are because of our customers. Every product that we have, 90 of the features that we have are from customers. So for example the voice SMS that we started was because a church requested for that CCC Egypt. I remember very well up to now. We still talk Pastor Steven, he's an amazing friend of. I do call him occasionally because I mean I can, I can list the 10 customers that in the LEDs we work with, that we still work with. I have good relations with all of them and funny enough they also use our platform although people have come to try and take them away from us and all of that. Yeah. So every feature that I see on, on mnotify, 80% of them is, is from the customer voice estimates was. Was from the customer. Then another customer was like this was a farm. Presby Agriculture, they do farm advisory services. We're like why don't you add IVR to it? Because then they want to interact. And we added that. Then some, uh, there was a company as well that also what they do is that they do the recordings of the audio and put on our platform and we're like oh, but there's AI. We can do text to speech and language translation so why don't you do that? So then I have AI powered voice SMS that we offer where you just go and type English then you convert to chi and blast that out for you. Then along the line they were like okay, IVR is press one, press. Do you want something more conversational? So then now we have our voice agents as well that we are deploying soon, which then I would be able to allow you to then speak and rather than let this be a savvy that would press one person, it'd be more free uh, form conversation. Right. So all of our features has always been customers. Chatbots Africa for example, it was a customer that was running an Instagram shop and they were getting a lot of orders during the period and they were doing Covid and they were not able to properly manage that because then now between managing the orders and managing conversations was very difficult and I saw that, and it was through a conversation I saw that I was like, oh, why don't you build something for you? And this was, was, uh, a young guy then when he liked the idea, I paged it to do Man Doman, the CEO of Doman is also one of that year. So I pitch it to him. He liked the idea. Then also Peter man got on board. Then others also coming in, started coming in, all of that. So it's always been the customers from Conversations. I'm a very curious person and adventurous as well. So Conversations, what comes up then? I see what we can build. If there's an opportunity over there as well, we just take that up.

Speaker A: Yeah, but I mean, customers could have

Speaker B: a lot of wants, right? I know, right.

Speaker A: So how do you differentiate that they recommend that you think they could be viable?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, so to be fair, not every feature that we did saw the day of life. Some features too. We had to roll back on them as well. So it's not like every customer feature or everything we did because the customer worked well up to now. There are even requests that we get from certain customers and realize that this is a feature that maybe instead peculiar to just you as a customer. We wouldn't work on that. So what we do is that we do opportunity cost. Is this something that would benefit a lot of people? Or is. Or is this an idea that if maybe we develop that for you and we sell to others would also make sense. Right. So if, for example, someone comes to me that they want to, they want me to build an app for them, I can charge you to build the app for just you. Or maybe I can say, okay, maybe this makes sense. Okay, so I'll let you know that I'll discount the app by X, but I think it can work for xyz and so let's just build it together. Right. So then what we do is that we build it that way. You have my first customer and I always believe in customer centric building or design thinking. Right. So I don't build without having. Yeah, yeah. So I don't build without customers. I never build any product. It should always be the. Either there's the first customer or em. Notify the first customer. So some of the tools that we have, we use them internally first for like three months, six months. Learn it very well. See how it works before we ship it to customers so that we have internal customers or external customers. I don't, I don't think we've ever built anything without a customer. Our call center solution, you had a first customer that before we build that same thing for the Chatbot solution. I mean, the sms, you already had a customer. Yeah. So I mean all our products, we've always built with the customer. We don't. We sit to the customer. We build together. It might work. Some instance, might work for them, but some might not. Then we just scale from there. Add, uh, on. Some features would die, some would also come up. But the best thing is that it shouldn't have to be a U problem. It should be a problem that would cut across.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we'll do some validation because of that. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, wanna go back once again just on, you know, building products and what you choose, you know, to be viable. Back in 2018, um, that's when the payments, um, Systems and Service act was coming up. Um, most SMS companies moved into payments. Was there the thoughts or the, let me say, the temptation to move into payments? Is that something you considered or it wasn't in your books?

Speaker B: There was, there was, but. And that is all the things that we're trying to do with, uh, Chatbots Africa. There was, but we didn't want to go the same direction that everyone was going. Right. So what we wanted to do was like WhatsApp payments. Because. No, WhatsApp doesn't have payments. Right. It is available in Brazil and a few other countries. So we wanted to sort of use

Speaker C: that to like some Nigerian companies have been exploring it.

Speaker B: Yeah, but it's still closed. That's the, that's the.

Speaker C: It's still closed.

Speaker B: No, it's a closed loop. So if you do it, you still have to do it with an external APM.

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker B: On WhatsApp.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So that's why we, that's why. So our chatbots were in two folds there, or they are in two folds. There's for e commerce and there's for FAQs.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So the E commerce is when someone wants to buy something and they go in that. So as they get the other payments. So integrated logistics, uh, as well. So. So when you share a location, we calculate the delivery price for you because we had delivery companies that we're working with. So it was so amazing. So, I mean we, I thought of it, but I didn't want to go in the same way everyone was going. Because I hate the idea of everyone is doing one thing. So then everyone goes into doing that. I mean, up to now I still get the temptations of, um, some of our customers who are big customers and have a good relationship. They're like, charlie, I'm giving an ex company a lot of payments, money. Why don't you go into payments so that I move the money to. I said it's not about just one customer. I need to see a clear business case. Exactly. And a clear path for me to go into that. So yeah, there was a temptation, but I think we didn't go into that. One, that being the reason and two as well, the fact that I, I don't want us to also focus on too many things that we end up like collapsing. If it was. You notice everything that we did is still around customer engagement and to date everything is still around that. So that is Chatbots, whether it's call center, ivr is all still around the same thing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So payments would have been sort of away from that. So what, what maybe you might hear me doing a few years from now, if it does happen, is maybe I have a fintech company, but not as I'm notified, but as me being an entrepreneur and maybe someone pitching an opportunity.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And maybe I think with my experience, be on board right here.

Speaker A: Okay, so let's talk into about um, chat about Africa, um, the journey. How the journey has been like um, getting into Google's AI, um program first cohorts and you know, how you envision that, you know that's going to be a market for AI in Africa and how you've eventually moved in there, how you've integrated AI into the rest of your, the product and notify. Let's talk a little bit more about that.

Speaker B: So, so in 2018 I attended mobile World Congress in Barcelona.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: And like I was amazed at the, the level of technology and like the amazing things that were happening over the chatbots was sort of like list of the things over there. I was like, but in, in Ghana, in Africa we don't have this thing. Like no one is really doing anything around that. And over the day I've been exploring, um, rcs, right. Rich, uh, communication services. Right. And a lot of amazing things. 5G at a time, 5G and all of that. So I, I saw about four different companies. I was like, they were doing chatbot solutions and I was like, but this is something that should work in Ghana and the idea should make sense. But I never connected a dot still. I had a conversation with a friend who then was like, they are struggling to manage our conversation. I told my developers, ah, two flows. At the time that two flows. I think you are smart. You can build this. Let's understand this requirement. Let's build something for this customer. And that is how Chatbots Africa came about. What we did was initially just um, one Chatbots for a client, for E commerce and realized that no, it can work for a lot of other people. We pitched it and started getting a lot of customers, um, coming on board for that. So when we started Chatbots, so that was in, in 2018 Mobile World Congress in 2020 Covid 1920 covet. So in 2019 that, exploring that 2020, I was like, okay, let's do Chatbots Africa. And I mean I got a new Chatbots Africa just to let you know that no one was doing that. Exactly what I was thinking about that. So yeah, I mean, so we, in 2020 we do. It is going quite well. But I realized that it's also too early. Too early in the sense that people still want to talk to human beings. Like people still want to feel like somebody is attending to my hair. Exactly. So Chatbots, um, it worked a bit well, but I wasn't working too well. I wouldn't say that was our uh, biggest revenue or money maker. Right. But I got a chance to do some work with some insurance companies. Hopefully the banks didn't allow us. They still went to Indian companies, sadly. But I don't know why, because they didn't trust what we're doing or because it was more advanced there, so they trusted that. But I had a strong feeling. I remember I told my colleagues in the office about. And chat was the same I had about ussd. So before USSD became a thing like the way we see, um, uh, almost everything has USS now. But I think when I was working the bank at the time ussd there wasn't anyone doing USSD on in. In the banking infrastructure. And my bank was the first. The bank I worked for was the first bank that did that. And at the point when you're doing. I had like a strong conviction that this thing made a lot of sense and soon every bank, every insurance company would have that and it happened. So I had that same feeling about Chatbots that every. And I still do have that feeling about AI agents as well, that soon every organization you need to have like an AI agent. It would be like sort of just like your assistant, you should have like AI. And that's what we are heading to as a company. I'll talk about that. We should have like something AI that you are doing, whether you're even a coconut seller or something. You should, you should have that. The same in our mumu. I mean thanks to Hapto and a few others, now you can pay and mtn, of course you can pay Momo even to the coconut sale and all of that. I strongly believe that a time will come maybe five years from now, AI would be like that. It would be, would be common. But back to the journey of chatbots. Uh, what was the question?

Speaker A: The journey of chatbot.

Speaker B: So, so, so yeah, program. So yeah, So I mean we, we do the um, we do the chatbots. There's e commerce, there's FAQs. Then FAQs is also more heuristic. So it was, it was rubies. Right. Because then large language models weren't really a thing then. Then eventually open AI does the job. Then I all opened up then. Now we are able to build more um, responsive chatbots. Was chat boss at the point was also annoying. You asked one question then they still tell you, sorry, I don't understand. Yeah, yeah, but I got, it's gotten, it's gotten better. So then in doing that as well, we certainly go into the Google for AI, um, accelerator program. The first of of the course in Africa. We're the only Ghanaian company there. And that was when I actually, my mind actually opened to a lot of things that I can do with AI. So initially what we're doing and what we do now to a large extent is conversational AI. Right. So more around like conversation, conversations. But over there I met guys doing amazing stuff with uh, Google vision vertex AI by the vision APIs. Where for example there was this guy that was sharing his use case about how um, they had a warehouse and there was a lot of thefts in there and they just had a camera that when the, when the guys come to offload the items, um, it's counting everything. Then it's able to then add that to the stock so no one has to be. Yeah, the camera.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I like several amazing solutions and that bust my mind, right, that there's a lot that you can do in AI that people actually doing even in, in Africa. And that sort of opened my mind to think bigger than just conversational AI. And after all these years, whenever I speak to customers, like I mentioned, I speak a lot to customers. I realized that people want to engage, people understand chatbots, the value of it, but they don't want to accept it. And why is that? Why is that the case? Because then now they need to think about transformation of their business as a whole. How does that fit into their agenda? Is this is chat was something that they really need or do they need another form of AI? How do you use AI Transform. And that is where we are now as a company. So you remember in my introduction I said we are customer engagement and data solutions provider. So what we are doing now as a company is that we don't want to give you a chatbot once come into your business, understand what are uh, the metrics for growth for you? What are your unit economics. How can you use uh, digital, uh, tools to do that? And in the age of AI now even transforming digital is very easy because you can easily build a website, uh, you can easily do whatever you want do. Now one of my mentors was telling me that now what would separate companies is how good you uh, are as a product developer or your product developer. Serving is right because you can build anything you want. But then how to properly know that this is what I want and this is why I want this as well to differentiate you. So then what I want to do as a company is to come into your organization. Okay, so these are my goals, this is what I want to get the next five years. How can technology help me? Okay, then how do we integrate AI into that to help you to get to that goal? If it means a chatbot to give you that, if it means an AI powered call center, we give you that. If it means maybe you need to build some um, tools, vibe code internally or maybe even train your staff on how to build simple dashboards, we help you do that. So that is where we are as a company. But looking back and connecting the dots, I'll say it started from the Google for um, a Google AI first cohorts, then uh, Mezcal as well. Very, very um, helps very, very much with that, helping us understand our unit economics and just understanding how business run. Remember I came from a computer science background so I learned on the job. Right. Then Stanford Seed as well, an amazing program that I was on from Stanford University MBA and Stanford University program that, that also helped me to connect to a lot of entrepreneurs across Africa. And to hear, as an entrepreneur you always need to hear and like see what's happening on the grounds as well. Right. It's good to build, but while you are building yours as well, just understand the ecosystem and all that. And I think these guys, this programs really helped me to, to understand it's very key.

Speaker A: Sorry, exposure is very.

Speaker B: Yeah, exposure is very key. Right. Else you might build an isolation and think you're building something very nice when maybe another person has a similar solution that, I mean you could partner.

Speaker C: M. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that's, that's one of the things I'm also learning like sometimes just like you said, your skilling doesn't have to be you moving to do something on the market. A partnership could break that collaboration even even though maybe they, they could build that. Just that your focus on that aspect of the business clears that issue and everybody can get a good share of fair share of that, of that pie and uh, that market and that uh, that like that works out better than sometimes trying to chase it all by yourself.

Speaker B: Let me chip this in. So, sorry. So the Stanford seed program, one of the Stanford professors says something about value capture and value creation. Right. So, and it's a strategy class so it was saying that a lot of, of businesses creates value but very few businesses capture value. Right. So most of the time so value is you get paid for value. Right. But let's say mnosphere create a value which is maybe build this mic. Right. But then another company comes and maybe I build this mic for 5,000. But because they are probably connected to maybe let's say uh, the presidency or whatever. You know this mic can be valued at 1 million if they just put their logo on that or do some small tweaking and so sell it. So you'd have worked hard to produce this at let's say 500 cities. But I can take that and add ah, and capture the value that you have created, send it to the president and make over 10,000 cities from that. So it's not always about building buys, about sometimes collaborating or sometimes partnership taking what someone has done and then now uh, adding my values because maybe there's a product, it will be value, it will be valid for my customer.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: How do I easily tap into that. So and that is why we also expanded through partnerships as well. Right. Because then we feel that okay, we've created a value but how do we then capture the value that we've created in the right way? So there may be through partnerships through ah, white labeling our solutions if it's, if it's necessary, APIs as well and other uh, we just make sure that we also capture the last year of the value because there's value capture and value creation. Right.

Speaker A: So I want to um, I think earlier you mentioned about you rebranding and how Mezscale fell into that. Right. So let's talk about why was the purpose of rebrand, what why did you want to do it and how Mescale helped position that rebranding basically. Yeah.

Speaker C: Also just to add, maybe he can also explain what MESQL is for those

Speaker B: who do not know, but I don't think they still run a program. So. So when I was, when I was in school, computer science. I was, I always wanted to like join myst. Right. Just to learn something.

Speaker C: I think it was a. Yeah.

Speaker B: The best of the whole. So to be fair. But at a point when I think, I think I missed the opportunity to again to missed. And at a point when I, I wanted to get the opportunity ahead of mesq, which is a program for not uh, ideation or not people with already running businesses who want some kind of growth. Yeah. So like a growth venture program. Right. So they come into your business, they give you advices or like um, coaches who help you understand every side of your business. So there's a finance coach, there's an HR coach and um, marketing coach as well. So um, before I think doing the med school program as well, that was our 10th anniversary. So by then we had done it for 10 years. And like I said, I like adventure. I mean and I felt like bulk SMS is quite boring and the revenue is also shrinking because there are several companies, you know, doing similar things and most of the big companies that do that are uh, not, that's not their main products. Right. So then what's next for em Notify? So I joined the program and they helped us understand uh, unit economics. They helped understand what makes the business run, how we make money. And it was surprising that. And one of the key things that we learned from uh, one of the sessions right. Was about the five whys. And that's when we realized that people actually use our service because they want to engage their audience. Right. So that is when we actually moved from being a bulk SMS company to a customer engagements company. Um, our logo change was essentially because we were just there. We wanted to rebrand the logo sort of like filled, felt very old. We wanted a more futuristic logo that we could use along the line. So then through the meal program realized that okay one, we don't have to necessarily scale to other countries which has always been the thing. I've been crazy about any company. I hear they've gone to Nigeria, but behind the scenes don't see that they are burning cash and all of that. Right. So they, they gave me that reorientation that maybe I can scale in other ways and increase my revenue without necessarily going to undercountry as a way to increase my revenue. Right. Yeah. So that's, that's one of the key lessons that I learned from that. The second item as well, the second thing I learned was managing people HR as well. So before MESQ we didn't have hr, ah, manual and all of that, but they helped us create an HR desk. Another thing was also partnerships. So they helped me see partnerships as a channel of distribution. Right. So remember why I said value creation, value capture.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. So you create a value, but I need a distribution channel in order to capture the value. Right. So then what I can do is I can say, okay, I'm uh, partnering with this organization. I'll be a silent person in the back, but let's share revenue.

Speaker A: 50, 50.

Speaker B: And that way you handle the marketing. I focus on my product building. And now I can capture more value that I'm creating. Right. Rather than I build and I go and market and do all of that. Right. So that's another wonderful lesson I learned. One of the key things that I learned about partnership was also how to intensify the noise you make as m notify in a more strategic way. So what we did, for example, is if you attend a lot of um, I'm, I'm a creative person. I like supporting the creative industry. So a lot of these, um, shows, this place and all that, we do try to sponsor a lot of them. And for me I found that as a way to also leverage their brand, to grow my brand.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And that was an idea that came from one of the brainstorming sessions during the Mezcal program. Then fast forward, I went into the um, Stanford seed program, also an amazing program for bigger and much bigger businesses. So uh, the like the likes of

Speaker C: revenue was hitting that

Speaker B: by the likes of Hill Absent Mobile. Most of the big companies are all part of the. And the reason why I joined that, like you said, exposure. Right. And also building my network because I felt like if I also needed to have the right kind of partnerships and all that, I needed to make sure that I'm in the right rooms. Right. So then how do I get myself into the right rooms? And, and I'm always happy to say that I know if I'm um, for. So I'll be attending Nigeria GTEX next two weeks. I know before I go I can just place a few calls and if I need to meet someone, I know somebody in Nigeria can make it happen. If uh, I need to go to South Africa, someone can make it happen. Kenya, someone can make things happen. And I feel that is the, the biggest thing I got from the Stanford seed program as well. The fact that then now I know I can be in certain rooms, I can get involved in certain conversation. And even there's this, there's this thing that they had leadership lab, where it's like the Entrepreneurs coming together and just you share your biggest challenge and your brainstorm around and give you an idea and all that. And that for me was one of the things that, and it's surprising that entrepreneurs, we all have similar problems.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's quite, it's quite interesting. I think you have the, you are the only ones solving the same problem. Others actually have similar problems. So that, that's the, the journey of EM notify moving from um, being a bulk SMS company, customer engagement then through the Mezcal Stanford seed program. But at the core of it I feel um, I'm also passionate about AI and with the advancement happening with 11 labs and a ah lot of all these guys there's, there's now new opportunities. Right. They've created a value but I can capture it in my market. So then how do I build on top of some of these tax to capture more value for myself? And that is why we are now looking at being a digital solutions for provider. Right, so then you're not just looking

Speaker C: at more like infrastructure.

Speaker B: Exactly. We are not just looking at infrastructure. And I, I mean I always tell people that I believe strongly the infrastructure that we've built over the period. Right. But then now how do we move from being an infrastructure company to more of like okay, we are with the customer sitting, we're building a product for you or we are building a product that will scale for a lot of people. It could be on the same infrastructure, it might not be on the same infrastructure but we have developers that can do that. And, and that is where we are going as a company. And so for example not to markets but we'll be doing an AI training session for business leaders. And the idea for me is not just about the training but to see how we can help them use Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini Gems and all of that to build simple tools that will help their businesses grow. But as you are doing that training that is also a listening opportunity to me to understand what are these small business experiencing, what can I learn from that to build something bigger.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So those are some of the things that we are doing under impact AI labs of course. Um, so we're doing the AI training with ALX um as well. Then beyond that there's also um, a project that we are working on called Karena and the idea of KRNI is, and that is actually even from the Mnotify infrastructure that you want to. We have this theory that we can create behavioral change using AI and simple voice solutions. If let's say you have a Stereotype about a particular thing could send you as m. SMS voice calls, interactions just to understand why you think of a particular topic like this and help you change your behavior. So we are starting with pregnant women and with a um, with a condition called preeclampsia which is high blood pressure amongst pregnant women. And there's this um, stereotype that only big people have high blood pressure. Right. And if you are pregnant as well you might notice you might have high blood pressure just because you're prepared pregnant. But there are several um, myths around that. They want to use this carina solution to sort of clear that. And our uh goal is that when it works very well we skew into other courses as well. So those are like some of the things that as a company now we

Speaker C: exploring if maybe I could also come. I know you also work with Giz on the uh, startup. Uh before you come into that I

Speaker A: think you've mentioned Impact AI Labs a couple of times. Can you explain what it is what

Speaker B: you the goal you look. Yeah, so, so my goal, my, my big vision profits or no so it's suppose it's a non profit but my big vision right for Impact AI Labs is just to I, I always say M. M Friday was what made M notes notified and what M. Friday did was to create a room where entrepreneurs

Speaker C: come m. No, no, no, no.

Speaker B: So as I got asked that question last week so, so, so so fun fact. It was not always M notifying so mobile notifications but we found the name too long and by then someone was selling the domain M5 for about $1,005. We're not going to buy, we're not going to buy a domain for $1,005. But I mean in our, in our fourth year we realized that maybe it's better be shorting it. So that's why M5K.

Speaker A: So you got 1005 at the time?

Speaker B: No, but I could afford whatever I was at at the time. So we still got made a lot of money. You know when you see on Twitter

Speaker C: like somebody bought a domain for 5,000

Speaker B: or 50,000 like no, but at that point it makes sense to buy. Now we are shortening the name. It's more easy to. It's a solid brand so it's more easier to, to go with that. So that, that is how we got. We got. Yeah so, so I think I was talking about Impact Air Labs right. So the idea is to just create that room where um AI enthusiasts like myself can come and I can learn from people who can learn from me. We can explore different ideas, try things, make them work out. I named it a lot because my goal or my vision is to one, they have a space that we cannot just come. Maybe it's like a uh, talk like this or just be having fun, having conversations. Like I said, vibes, right? Just seeing, exploring ideas and just creating a space where we can do things around AI. But for now what we are doing, I mean as a starting point is just um, three foods, right? There's one um, and they are grouping to irones. So remember I said Carina, right? And the idea of caring is that arena where everything related to, to care you can have. So different products, different ideas might be m notifying, might not be able to find just different ideas coming around all of that. There's also SME Arena. So the SME arena is what I'm trying to start with. MN5 being the forerunner, which is the fact that okay, SMEs are around. What can we do for them in terms of AI? What things can we build for them? What things can they can they build themselves? But maybe they need our guidance on the right way to build. Because then now vibe code, you can build anything I need to do the right way so it doesn't break. Right. So that is the idea behind um, SME Arena. There was Grant arena as well, which we are thinking about how to handle that. But the idea for Grant arena was, I mean for the longest time as a founder I've struggled to raise funding, right? And partly because I also don't understand the founder language. I'm more of a computer science guy building products. But I know if you need to be in certain rooms, you need to speak certain languages. And the idea of Grand Tyranna is to sort of create that space where now people who have raised are also helping others who have no risk to also read. Then also we have a platform that we built to help you scan for opportunities based on your um, based on your interest AI powered writing. You're able to write um, ah, proposals for you and all of that something that we've built. And my idea is that we just push it out there. So under impact here lives, we are not building a commercial product.

Speaker A: M hm.

Speaker B: We are just trying ideas, pushing things out, people getting both collaborating on what could work. How we just drive AI adoption in, in Africa. That is the idea and for impact

Speaker A: to impact so you can move into um, the work you did with Git and the Ghana.

Speaker B: So, so, so one of that's, that's one of the exciting things, if not the Most exciting thing I did last year and the year before. So let me start out with the story. So today I give a nice story of M Notify Knust. We did some work with Vodafone. So when we got there work with Vodafone. Vodafone is under um, Ghana Telecom.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So that means a government owned.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh the two days I need a tax grant certificate before we get our first check we need to get tax clan certificates. Right. And we're excited. We are getting our first check from Vodafone. Good morning. Students are paying so we will go to GRE that we want a tax clan certificates. Then they pull our records out in and they are like ah, uh, we've not found our pe. And I'm like what is pe? I mean by now students. Yeah, that's what is like we are supposed to be paying but if your revenue is above this. So basically these are things we know about. We paid a huge price. Like what we paid penalties actually. And that is a challenge that most entrepreneurs face. If you are not running from this, an incubator or something, you always might be doing things the wrong way.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And the idea of um, Gibbot, which is the Ghana Entrepreneurship policy chatbot, is sort of to solve that huge problem which is the fact that if you need any information about entrepreneurship, the ecosystem in Ghana, where do you go to get all of that? So that is the purpose of Gibbot. So the idea is in twofold, um, not just about knowing the relevant policies but I know the opportunities that you could also benefit from. I never knew that businesses, uh, business owners under 35 you could get some grants from NEIP. Unfortunately when I got here, but I was past 35 so I missed out on that opportunity. Right, but, but that is the idea behind GateBots for you to see policies that can benefit you also understand how to do the right thing. And even if you're a foreigner wanting to start business in Ghana as well, how you do it the right way, what are the regulations and all of that and I mean people doing. We did a comprehensive stakeholder engagement. One of the questions that people asked was I mean I can get the same thing from ChatGPT. And we're like no, so it's not the same. So what you are getting, what makes it different is that we are working with all the government agencies. So as and when information changes quickly and also in addition to that as well the end game is to connect you directly with. So you want to register your business with registrar. What are the things you need to do or you need to speak with someone Registrar. All right. Office M of the registrar of companies. Right. You can easily through gbots be able to get through to someone and get the answers that you want. Fda, you want to register your products. You don't understand how to fill the form. With uh gbots you're able to get, understand how to fill the form have enough context on the companies that you have. Yes, of course because then now we are getting the, the direct, the direct plot. Yeah. So it's not like you know open AI and charge like those kind of entire Internet. Some might be true, some might be hallucination, some might even be passed. Yeah but might be passed.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So we give you up to the accurate information. We are working directly with the government agent stakeholders stakeholders relevant for that. And it's, it's one of the super exciting uh projects that I for me I, I mentioned to GIC that it wasn't for me just like another project, a personal pain point that I experienced as an entrepreneur and I paid, I paid heavily for that. So, so yes I'm now entreat every uh person check it out. So it's G-E P B O T so Gbots Ghana Entrepreneurship Policy Chatbots. So Gep.com we are coming up with the phase two which will be exciting and the idea that we are trying to push you phase two is that in the phase one a lot of people said that the, they just don't want to have our policies and all that. They want to have access to opportunities and guess what, as fit to have it. We're building grand tyranny. So then now we are looking at integrating that in there. So if you're an entrepreneur beyond all the doing the things that. Right. So you also get access to opportunities and all that you can uh benefit from. Then of course if it makes sense and the uh market demand is high then we'll have a small fee that you pay because then their services running in the background. Another thing that you're also looking at doing is adding a lot of of the ecosystem reports over there. So let's you just want to learn about the Ghanaian ecosystem. What's happening. There's the um near school RAM framework, there's the ah Giz, uh AI Practitioners guide. There's also another uh UNDP also has an AI readiness framework. How do you get all of these frameworks if you didn't know about them? You didn't know about them. But I want to put them on the platform, the gateboard platform. So you have access to all these platforms. The idea is that we started with policies, but we want it to be the one stop show for everything that an entrepreneur needs to be empowered to go to the next level. Right? Yeah. And, and I'm excited about it because, I mean we'll be starting the phase two, um, uh, out in the public very soon. So there'll be a lot of like, media rounds, a lot of like, uh, events, uh, podcast, um, interesting things I'll be doing around that, which for me is very exciting. I mean I'm super passionate and happy about that. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome.

Speaker A: Um, so yeah, I want to talk about strategy. I think maybe we run up the conversation. Um, try to. Jenny, what uh, for you, what have you or what growths or skills have you got to learn as a leader? Right? In what place have you learned to how to grow in, um, new things. You have to learn to be able to, you know, lead a company. Um, you mentioned about, you know, leading people. Have you grown in that area? What are the challenges or growth opportunity or how have you molded yourself into a better leader? How's that journey been?

Speaker B: Like, there's no. I was laughing was that I was telling someone I'm a shy person, but no one believes it. So. So I hate public speaking. I like even coming into this room, I, before the session I was like, I was a bit nervous and I think that's one of my, that has been one of my biggest weaknesses. I always tell people that in class. I'm not the kind of person. I'll stand up in a second. The question in class, I'd rather be quiet in my behind the scenes and I mean computer science for the two as well as just always be behind your computer. So one of the biggest changes that I've ever had to make was like being a public speaker. Like I always still cringe when I have to speak in public. It's like two minutes to the time, one minute time. And people always say, oh, I did very well. I didn't look nervous, but I was nervous as hell. So that that would be one of the biggest things that I've had to work hard on to be able to, to fix. I think the second biggest thing I would say lowering my expectations, right is, is ironic because I have very high standards of myself, very high expertise of myself. And I sometimes also I'm a huge dreamer. Like I, I like if you see this, very optimistic and sometimes can be overly optimistic to the fact since that I become a dreamer.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: But I've, I've learned to be able still remain that very optimistic, expect more from myself. But then the people that I work with, I do an assessment and see their strengths and see how I can push them to give me more, but within their strength and also give them information in, in pieces because they don't always see the bigger picture like you see it. So then if you show them a very big picture, you pressure them to give you that picture, they end up breaking from my experience. So I'll give you a typical example. I mean the lady that currently handles um, like our second in command, the HR formula. So she's been with me for seven years. Right. I always like to use a story because when she joined in the company, I mean I saw her frustrations. I saw she joined us at admin assistant so like front desk.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I, I saw like her frustrations and I saw the potential in here. But I didn't from the one telling that you I'll make you this. I'll make you this. But what I did was rather guide her, mentor her piece by piece, like show her a piece of the puzzle, challenge it to take this course and do this and all that. Because I realized that if you hold people accountable too much, yeah. The pressure sometimes breaks them. But for myself, I put myself on a lot of pressure. I mean I know I need to make it big. So then I, I don't mind that. So I would say it's just managing my expectation around people that doesn't also mean that I, I am um, sort of compromising my quality of my excellence. Right. I'll hold you accountable for whatever you have to, to do. Make sure that he gets it done. Even if it means staying up 10pm to get it done. But then if for example I have a five year plan, the team knows about the five year plan. But as to the big dreams around the five year plan, I don't know. What I do is that with them is okay, this is a five year plan this year. What can we do? What do you think we can do? Uh, share your ideas and from the way you bring your idea, let you know, okay, this is good but can we make m. Maybe make it bigger like this? So then it's like it's not me coming to you with a big vision, but like your vision. But I um, am actually making it bigger. Exactly. We both create the vision. Exactly right. So that has been one other big thing that happened because I've always been the kind of person actually I want this get it for Me go, go and do it. But I've learned that you have sometimes hold people's hands. Uh, and well, maybe I went to preset prisc. Let me just chip that in. But I mean on the funny side, right? So before I, before I introduced the pr, my shs ghs, I was the highest. I was a top student when I was physic. I was always number 20 something. And I realized that when it just comes to class, they think that, you know, so they just kind of do and they go. And that's the mindset I was at as a leader. Right. I told my people newborn, I've employed you. You came to talk a lot during the interview. Yeah. He said you work under pressure. But I realized that it doesn't work like that sometimes even if they are smart.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You need to hold your hands and work with them. Right. So that, that is, that is what I would. I'll summarize as the other thing that I've learned. Maybe just. And I mean I won't say I'm perfect now because I, I know I'm getting better artists, but I think um, through my mentors, they made me understand that. No, I mean I have a mentor who. What he does is that at least from the Stanford seed program. What he does is that we have our sessions, but I have sessions with my stuff as well. So at least it's not like me saying what people think about me in terms of my stuff. But also he also hearing all of that. So we are sort of trying to work on my, my leadership skills in that sense. But I would say that is the, is the Stanford seat program that has made me a better leader by the coaches that I have, the mentors that I have. And I already underscore mentors once again. Yeah.

Speaker C: So, um, I mean for me too the question is more like. I mean generally expectations. I mean somebody from computer science hearing of the Z, the Tim Cook course, the jobs and all those like wonderful founders, like oh Charlie, by 10 years, they like serious billion dollars cash out. Like you're uh, your. Yeah. Your houses across the world has become so many. And I mean there's always ice especially. And I believe that like there are lots of young founders and things. Maybe younger founders or watching.

Speaker B: I'm young watching and uh, thinking of all those things.

Speaker C: Like sometimes from your experience, I mean how, how do you manage that? The dream, how do you manage the expectations so that sometimes you don't feel like you're not doing well because sincerely, I mean they say like if you had to withstand like 10 years and beyond. Like you are in, you are not going anywhere again. But sometimes um. Some of them because of the vision and things, the big dreams, three years, four years, they're not seeing the certain results. Five years, six years. Maybe this idea is not a big idea or this place is not a working place. Let me get somewhere else, let me move somewhere. And sometimes you follow that, you follow the mark and it still like doesn't get. I mean we are excited about halftor. I mean 26 years.

Speaker B: I mean I I vibe with hapt story 100. This is an amazing story and this is. There are people that I respect a lot as well Habito in Puntu as well. These are, these are OGs in the business that as em notify. I also give them that respect and I learned from them as well. I mean Stefan in Puntu. Yeah. I find funny enough we are all in the Stanford seat program as well. So sometimes we share idea and I mean I even work with in Puntu there are some services that like I said value capture valuation. Right. So I realized that okay, they are a bigger company, they can easily create that value at lower cost. So why don't I capture some of their value?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So there are some services that we actually even run together with them I can't mention. Yeah but on, on the conversation of expectations. I mean not to BS you but for me for example, I think I, I also feel like I can do better. Right. I'm that kind of person that I, I, I don't give up. I also I'm hungry to do more and that is why always emulates five is evolving. We are not. That book is Ms. Company. That's what you're hearing about impact AI labs. That's why I don't challenge myself with agriculture, going to farming. Like try other things.

Speaker A: Things.

Speaker B: Right. Um, I'll say is there why that should drive you? Right. I remember um, when, when I was in the bank. So my friend, he works at Microsoft now. So I have about four, four friends from pr, one Amazon, one Microsoft. There's one guy in um, Qatar. They were my roommates. Right? Yeah. Then one of them, I'm still in Ghana with him. So we're four. And um, he was like but run out cry. Why am I wasting my time in Ghana? Because like he's not a computer science guy. I was a computer science guy. He learned computer science. When he relocated to it, I was like the money he's making, if I just relocate I would make like more than way more than he's making I was like, is the passion why I'm doing that? Right. Sometimes you would hear, I mean and because I'm not too much on social Media, I'm on LinkedIn but I'm also not really on LinkedIn as well because then sometimes you get caught in the clout and the pressure. This guy raised this and all that. But the question I always ask myself, why am I doing this? Ah, why what I'm doing.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Similar to when I was a te I always say that when I was a T was fulfilling for me because I was always happy when I see people coming out of an exam hall and they say Ronald, thank you very much. You held me, you taught me something and you helped me pass an exam. So anytime I see a customer, I go to the mall. Maybe I'm wearing an M5 shirt or I go for a program. Oh yeah, like, or like the way you said you knew M5 from way back and you know that we are still there is amazing. And you just say thank you. That for me is, is fulfilling from so that is, that is what keeps me doing what I do. Not because my salary is huge or my salary is very small by the way. It's not because my salary is huge or because I have, I have made much money from Emotify but I feel that like this is my calling. So for me, it's like a calling for me.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And I do it with just that passion and that, that happiness that it's a calling. Hopefully I don't end up being a broken yes. But, but for me I do it because of the passion. But I, I and the why. Right?

Speaker A: Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: And just the adventure and the thrill of I. When I was in the bank, funny thing, uh, like I, I at a point Sunday evenings were stressful for me. Like yeah. Because Charlie, Monday morning you are going to meet your boss. But now I look for actually start work on Sundays.

Speaker C: The Nigerian bank too.

Speaker B: Yeah, the Nigerian Bank. So actually now I start work on Sundays by Sunday by 4:00pm I, so, so my I still have a very tight schedule. So Saturday I play tennis. Sunday maybe I'll go and swim by 2:00 clock by um, 5. Uh, ish. If unless I have a family event, I'm back. I am um, checking my emails, checking asana because I like to create work for my people. Like before Monday morning they were actually waiting for me. Yeah. So by Saturday evening I'm already working, checking my emails, planning for the week.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's a subcontractor when I was in the bank. So for me, I always tell people that for the past like eight years or so, I don't feel like I've been working. Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, it's a 2018, right? Yes. So it's actually to read. So I don't feel like I've been working. Like it's just a fun adventure, trying new things. Uh, some things would feel the highs and the lo. Disappointments. It's, it's just a fun experience and a good vibe.

Speaker A: I think we ran up the conversation. Um, if your question won't take long, I'm a talkative. I mean, I mean I think we should end on, I mean the young people who are listening to us that there are quite a number who are about to enter into the workforce dominated by AI.

Speaker B: So what would you say they shouldn't

Speaker A: overlook to help them maximum, like maximize their potential?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, I would say that first and foremost you have to be curious. Right. I mean that thing, that notion that AI would replace humans, I don't buy into that. And actually if Google analyzed bringing people back into the, into the workforce. Right. So I'll say just be curious, be open minded and be a team player. I recently had, last year I had an intern from University of Ghana, not Tech, University of Ghana. And, and he was very good. He was technically good, like he could do the job, he could deliver. But I, at the end of the period I told that if I have to retain him, I will not hire him. But he's not a team player. I, I hide not just for skills, but people that can be a part of the team. Right. I, I don't believe in star players. I believe in the starting.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say that if you're a young person, according to the workforce, first and foremost curious and open minded. Be willing to be used. Right.

Speaker A: Be.

Speaker B: Allow yourself to be. Unfortunately, people don't like to be used. But the sad part of it is that if you are used, you get exposure. Right. I like the way they said about exposure because if you are being used you get a lot of exposure in a lot of different rooms.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, when I was in the bank I was used a lot. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I'm proud I was used and I'm happy that I was actually because then I helped me build the right work ethic.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: It helped me build the right relationship because most of my friends now are heads of departments in different places and they know the kind of work that I do.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So they are comfortable giving me stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So instead of complaining, I allowed myself to be used, knowing that I have a plan and always have a plan. I, I believe people don't believe in new resolutions, but I believe in having a five year plan. A, ah, a, uh, one year plan and a quarterly review.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And even if it was a monthly review as well, because, I mean, if you don't plan to feel, you feel to plan. If you don't, if you fail to plan, you plan to feel. Right. And I always tell people that if you're able to achieve 60 of your new Year's evolutions, you've been successful. Uh, most times people think, let me achieve everything. I mean, it's. If you achieve everything, then Charlie. Yeah, but, but, but I think, yeah, just be curious, have a plan. Um, and be intentional as well. And yeah, be a team player. I, I strongly believe that don't please people, but be a team player. Just like fit in the team because you can be a star player. But Messi knowing, uh, Bape will be a better example. PSG was a star player, but he only left. They won the Champions League, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So it wasn't about one single player. Like I said, I like football a lot, and I learned a lot from football. So Louis Enrique, I'm, um, deviating, but Louis Enrique, when he, he, he joined psg, he didn't build a star player. I built a star team. So there were no individual stars. They were, it was a collective effort. Right. And that is how. That is my perception to like team building and being a team player. Right.

Speaker A: Awesome. Back to the question. You said you annoyed spit. But I think it's, it's relevant for me to ask because I think, um, I feel like in entrepreneurship, I think sometimes we focus too much on, you know, being entrepreneurs, but they also need to be a balance. Um, so you have a family. I mean, you said you're not doing well, but how are you managing that? Managing entrepreneurship and family? Because, you know, sometimes you have to make decisions. You know, you have your last money. Do you spend it on your company or you spend it on family? Um, you need to spend time with family. Do you skip that and go do something that maybe benefits your company and maybe in the long term come back to benefits in the company in the long run.

Speaker B: Of course, I mean, everything, that everything will certainly benefit the family, right? Yeah, but I, I see work life balance as a myth. M. I don't think it really exists for entrepreneurs. I said that and somebody scolded me for that, one of my mentors. But I still Stand by that. Right. But I, why I rather believe in is being intentional. So for example, um, on Wednesdays I work from home. Right. And I know in Ghana when you work from home it's like I know working, I just want wrestling but I

Speaker A: send you and you know,

Speaker B: so, so, so what I've done is I have a small office space at home, right. That if I have to work I stay there and work. But occasionally I come down and also check in on my wife. She works remotely as well. So also checking on here and see how things are going. What I also try to do is to involve her in, in most of the things that I do. So um, a typical example, we swim together, tennis. Um, I don't have kids yet. Which is, which I hear would bring another level of complexity. But there again yeah, yeah. What I'm planning that is my reason why I'm also trying to farming as well because I feel if I go into farming and, and emulator is able to stand without me, then I cannot have more time for myself because I put in the sacrifice already. So I mean I, I another thing that's what I try to do as I played a game guitar.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: So mostly I get home around 8:39. So when I get home, unless it's some um, customer work, something bugging, I, I shut off work and maybe just watch tv, play guitar, just like have conversation. And my wife will not agree that I'm the best at that because some days I don't play guitar. I'll still open my laptop and work. Yeah. But I think, I think the, the biggest thing is just being intentional, right? Yeah. Because work life balance doesn't exist really for entrepreneurs. Right. Because I can't, I can't see customers calling and see 9:00-clock

Speaker A: M. I believe

Speaker B: like just being intentional. And maybe for example vacations, not necessarily traveling out of the country, but vacations, maybe weekends, spending them together. Um, notice that I said I start work on Sunday evening. So then that means that the whole day we are spending that together on Saturdays, either tennis or swimming. We uh, are trying to do that together. Uh, yeah, just trying to involve him in my life. So that, that will be a peace or for, for the rest in terms of money, I mean thankfully, I mean I give that, I owe that to God. I think the company is in a good position for me. Not to say I'm um, putting. I'm taking money for the family to input into the business. Right. But maybe in my farming and other things maybe I might be doing that but I'M sure she'd understand, should understand that. But my biggest advice would be just like. And that's the advice that I was giving us was just being intentional, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Not to just being very, very intentional now. Yeah.

Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. So, last question. What, what does the future hold for M Notifying yourself basically for myself is

Speaker B: the future for me is exciting because I want to explore impact AI labs. I want to explore more things around AI. Ah, for M notify. It's exciting because then now uh, and tomorrow is uh, our 14th we have an event for our 14th anniversary. And one thing that we are doing at the event for example is that we are taking 14 businesses and for free. Like I said, we come into your business, there are different uh, levels. So some are two employees, some are five grown um, medium uh, businesses. And we are just like coming in. What's your biggest pain point? How can we help you solve that for free? So you are doing that for 14 business. And my goal is that we scale this like to not just Ghana but across Africa. So the future for me is exciting in that regard that I would always get to interact with a lot of different businesses, understand different sectors, different industries and see how we can help them them use AI to better what they are doing. And by AI, I'm not just saying the buzzword AI, but maybe build a simple dashboard vibe code something. Um, use a large language model to detect uh, an anomaly. Like for example, I use large language models for fraud detection. How can somebody else um, easily use that as well that we've built. So stuff around that. And, and for me as an entrepreneur personally, um, what's exciting for me now is my, my greenhouse adventure venture that I want to take on the greener states. Hopefully um, in a few years time I'll be here again and I'll show nice videos of how

Speaker A: awesome awesome. Okay, thank you very much um, for coming. Rona, I think it's been an interesting and insightful conversation. Hoping to have you back later in sure, anytime. Okay, thank you very much um viewers, um, thank you for your time. Do follow us on all social media platform and like and subscribe subscribe our content. Um, see you again next time. Peace.