The Future of Content featuring William Mellis + Eric Markgraf

Speaker A: I'm Steve Gilman and this is Brand Story, where we help you build stronger, more sustainable brands by sharing insightful conversations with brand leaders, marketers and professional storytellers. My guests today are, uh, William mellus and Eric McGrath, founders of the Jupiter Festival.

Speaker B: Curiosity is what keeps me going in the world. And I would just say that if you're curious about things, come to Jupiter.

Speaker C: Yeah, I would second that. I think, you know, I would encourage anybody who's involved in content, whether it's through from, you know, I create it, I sell it, I leverage it, I use it to get my message across. You know, uh, uh, just come with an open mind. Yeah. And just be prepared to absorb because you're going to enjoy it.

Speaker A: William is the CEO and founder of the Jupiter Festival. And over a career spanning more than 30 years, he's helped build and scale world class events including Cannes lion and Money 20 20. And also holding leadership roles with sky and Alvarez and Marsal. And Eric is chief creative and Content Officer and co founder of the Jupiter Festival. Eric is a multiple Emmy and Cannes Lion Award winner whose career includes leadership roles at Fox Sports, Nike, sky italia and the Spark 44. Guys, together you've launched the Jupiter Festival. It's really exciting. I think our audience is going to really want to hear a lot about. It's a new global gathering in Miami. I'm excited, excited to talk to you guys about it. Welcome to Brand Story.

Speaker B: Thanks for having us. Steve. This is really a privilege for us to be hanging out with you. Uh, I'm in London, William's in Switzerland, uh, and we're here for you, mate.

Speaker A: Man. It's definitely an international episode, uh, today. So I'm excited for you guys. The more I learn about the Jupiter Festival, the more excited I get. And honestly, I think it's going to be a really special thing. And I know a lot of people hear, okay, these guys are very impressive m gentlemen that are. But they're launching a brand new festival and I think people think immediately that sounds incredibly risky and very hard to do. So can you guys speak to like, why are the two of you doing this? What motivated this?

Speaker C: Uh, well, Steve, I think we start by it's going to be a lot of fun. So let's start with.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: Um, and look, uh, I was with Essential, which is a brand that ran Money 2020 and Cannes Lions and part of that role was assessing different markets and we were looking for an acquisition to buy another event of similar stature to uh, Cannes lions and money 2020. And to be frank, we couldn't find one. We had to go at a couple. But we were looking at different industries and naturally, media, entertainment, sport is in my background. We looked at a couple of trade shows in the space, but there's nothing that brings the leadership together. And so there's a gap in the market. So you always start with, is there a gap? Is there a need? I, um, fundamentally believe our focus is all about the future of content, video content. There is seismic change going on in that, in our industry at the moment, massive disruption, um, and therefore there's a real need to bring the industry together to debate, learn, figure out what to do, form relationships, build networks of people that you can collaborate with. And so, in my mind, it was absolutely ripe to launch the festival and

Speaker B: have fun, as you said, William, have fun putting it together. I mean, who doesn't want to plan an event in Miami, Steve, in October for the people around the world? I mean, you know, that's the fun thing we get to do is just bring people together. Um, but as William said, the most important thing is there was a gap in the market, um, in terms of timing as well. Um, you have a lot of big events around the world, and we just thought October would be a good time to do this. And, you know, the good thing about being veterans, uh, in this business is that, you know, a lot of people that you can, uh, call up and say, hey, we got this crazy idea and, um, let's see if we can make it fly.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think you guys are well on your way to an extraordinary festival, uh, because, you know, having. Having dove into what you're doing and looking at the speakers you already have lined up and the sponsors, it's going to be a big deal. I mean, it is. Not only is it filling a gap, I think when I look at it, it looks like there were. It's designed to have conversations that just weren't happening. And I think that you all have designed that really well. Was that really part of your intention?

Speaker C: Uh, absolutely, Steve. So, look, I talk to the team, and our objectives are three very simple ones. I want delegates who come to go away with three new ideas, or maybe ideas that they'd kind of thought about but hadn't really engaged with properly. But things that they go, oh, my God, I hadn't thought of it that way, or I hadn't seen that, or if I don't do this, if I don't think this way, I'm going to lose out. So if they go away with three, uh, m. From the content, the Content will be edgy, super edgy. Great speakers. But being pushed to actually create the debate. Create the debate and force thinking. Then the next thing is look at the whole event is designed for networking from start to finish. Everything in the event is structured, designed and laid out to create networking. People will go away with 30 to 40 conversations, meetings they've had. And I want them to have six. Six people they want to follow up with, where they go. That was really interesting. We need to do something together. Now. It might not be a buy or seller model. It might be, I want to learn from you. I want to collaborate with you. You know, let's talk about things we could do together. And then, look, I want them to have a good time. I want them to have fun so that, uh, you know, executives are taking three days out of their busy schedule. Yeah. And, um, yes, it's work, but hey, we can do work and have fun at the same time.

Speaker A: Well, you build a good location for that, that's for sure.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And we don't want one of the big things, Steve, when we were, you know, concepting this whole thing was that we don't want them overwhelmed. I've been to a lot of things in my career, festivals, conventions, where you just don't know where to. There's so many content sessions, um, that you end up missing everything. In a sense, uh, we're very into quality over quantity. We don't want to overwhelm. We really, as William said, we really want them to take time to talk. We want this to be an enjoyable experience. We want to create sort of a high end thing like Buffett did in Idaho, for our group, in a sense like that. And I don't think anything's ever been done like that before. We're not trying to make this the biggest thing in the world in terms of people. We want it to be very structured and, uh, not. Not very structured. To be very loose and to have people be able to walk around and learn and have fun. Um, and I think that's one of the big things that we were. When we were designing this. Um, we thought about, um, and it's really coming from our own experiences. And the one thing that William did, and I don't want to steal his thunder. The actual floor plan is different than anything you've seen at a convention, in a sense. And the people who actually designed the floor plan were the people who designed the Cirque du Soleil event. So we have sort of theaters in the, uh. Not theater, but people walk. It's all circles. And so there's not these alleyways. It really helps people meet each other in a sense.

Speaker A: Well, that's fascinating and very, very uh, forward looking as far as how conferences and events and festivals like this are usually done. You know, I can tell you guys are not like vendor focused. Isn't all about, you know, selling or being sold to. Uh, and the way you're setting it up is really about connection and conversation.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's so important. Look, it's not a trade show. A trade show is a cattle mark. Right. And most people come away from their regretting having spent time. Right.

Speaker A: So we've all been there.

Speaker C: We've all been there. You know, and then look, we add on a net promoter score. Most of your audience will know that we'll be shooting for a net promoter score in the, in the 40s-50s, whereas most trade shows get a minus number. So um, you know, this is super focused on delegates. Yes. We will have exhibitors and sponsors there and they're important, but they're important. Um, one because we want them to show to the industry some unique stuff. So we'll be trying to get exhibitors and sponsors who've got something to say to the industry. Ah. Um, and it'll be, I mean most of the delegates there will be decision makers and budget holders, which isn't what you see in most other events. And therefore. And the environment is conducive for conversations. You know, if you're having a good time and you know, you're enjoying, you know, a beer in the evening, you know, with some good food and some nice music, you're going to be open to a better conversation than if you're standing in a booth. Right. You know, trying to get away from a salesperson. So I deliberately do that so that, you know, uh, the environment is conducive for business and networking. Yeah.

Speaker B: And we've always said that this is, we want it to be a natural progression from the lens to the screen is kind of way we're, we're looking at this from sponsors to talks to everything so people can see the progression. We actually talked about do we lay it out that way as well, you know, so whether it's camera manufacturers, whether it's people who actually produce the content, um, the other thing that we are doing that's a lot different. We really want an international presence. But instead of finding companies from around the world, we actually focused on international film commissions. We wanted, uh. Because we don't think they're represented enough and they don't really have that access to the US and the US Brands. And while people are trying to learn how to do different new content, why can't they go to other countries and produce? Content is getting cheaper and cheaper, but people don't really know where to go to do that. So we're trying to bring all these independent film commissions, um, to Jupiter, um, so the brands can talk to them and they can actually show off, you know, where they're going to. People can film. So we're really looking at a completely different, uh, way, um, to bring people together.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're all's vision for the festival is really unique. I mean, one of the things I noticed as I was going through it is it really does feel like it's about the future of content. And that is, I can't think of any other festival that is built that way. And I think it's something that is, it's urgent in a way. For a lot of brands, the future of content is where they're going to live and they might not be there yet. And this is a great place for them to really dig in.

Speaker B: Well, it's really about controlling their own narrative. You know, a lot of brands, you know, you look at certain things that, you know, F1 movie, the Lego Movie, the Barbie movie, stuff like that. You know, in this day and age and in teaching students, um, last, uh, couple years at USC in marketing, brands can be destroyed by you not controlling their own narrative. People can control your narrative. The brands need to take it back over, do their own content. Why put a product in a movie? Why not create the movie or create the content? It's really about, you know, taking your own IP and really extending that beyond what they thought was possible. Um, and so that's the real exciting thing. And you know, as William said, we're on a seismic shift on where to go. And a lot of people and William, you can pick up on this. You know, a lot of people say the industry is getting worse, but no, that's not the case. I mean, the facts about the money, William M. Is that it's growing, right?

Speaker C: Yeah. Look, if you look at the. I mean, I have these conversations all the time, and depending on where you sit in the industry, you can say, oh, I'm in decline or it's terrible. No, no, no. Right. The industry is growing. I mean, if you take the wide definition of entertainment and media and sport, the industry is growing at 6% CAGR. If you take a global view, there are more people connecting to content every day. You know, 2 billion people still don't have access to the Internet. Let's be quite clear. You know that that is increasing and you know, the world will get to a point where everybody has access. In most countries, not all most countries, the amount of content getting consumed every day is increasing. So the eyeballs are increasing, the number of people are increasing, the amount of money is increasing. Now what's actually happening is the industry is fragmenting, right. The power is moving from what used to be traditionally in content. You know, the movies and the studios and the distributors, the networks. The power with the digital platforms is moving to the consumer. Right. They choose what they're going to watch, when they're going to watch it, where they're going to watch it. Yeah. And their influence, okay. The big digital platforms, algorithms have got a big thing to say, but a lot of it is recommendations and social media and it's based upon what they like. So they're in control. Yeah. So, you know, you've got that going. I mean, you just look at the production costs are crashing, you know, we haven't. I mean, who knows where AI will be by October when we've got the festival, you know, but you've got that going on. You've got, um, the industry going, you know, vertical. You're seeing people driving towards platforms, you're seeing Fox just taking Roku. Right. So, you know, there are massive moves going on in the industry as people are trying to figure out how to, how to win in amongst all of that. The brands are so important. I mean, I'll articulate and say, I mean, I used to be a CMO as well, so, you know, it used to be easy. I made a 30 second commercial, I bought some airtime and I pumped it out over linear. Yeah. Now I'm going back a few years model. I can't get reach anymore because the industry's fragmented. Um, so I then tried to do a blend and I tried to do, you know, and look, digital, you know, ads, you've got to try and get your message across in five seconds because most people, right, or a m. Large number are not watching more than five seconds and you're getting charged for the full ad.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Because that's how the algorithms work. So you sit there and you go,

Speaker B: this advertising industry, there has to be another way. There has to be a way.

Speaker C: Uh, right, if you are in media and you're in brands, you're an agency or you're a brand owner or whatever, uh, I would really say you've got to look at Content, you've got to embed into content. And the industry's ripe for that because there's so much pressure on financing content. Brands now, uh, can finance content. And so you're seeing collaborations come all the time where brands are coming, stepping in and realizing, you know, what if I want to get, you know, my message across, I want to build my brand, I want to share what I'm, you know, and get, get it embedded in the consumer, how better than if they're watching, you know, I don't care if it's 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 3 hour movie right there. The consumer is engaged with the content.

Speaker B: Well, look at, look, look at how the financing of Hollywood, I mean, obviously two weeks, three weeks ago, Hollywood changed with the movie obsession and the back rooms. I mean, you got to look, back rooms was made for $750,000 or no, Obsession was $750,000. And then, you know, look at the, they're, they're, they're shaking up. People are realizing, I can do that. The way to film stuff is not as hard anymore. Content can come from anywhere. It's brands figuring out how to do that now and taking that leap, um, forward and trying it, you know, and so that's what, you know, to the point we want everybody to come together and talk about that and figure out what, what is the next step.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of change that needs to be discussed, especially with the type of people that are going to come to the Jupiter Festival, because, you know, I think a lot of brands still think of it as just distribution and they don't think of it as being embedded from the IP point of view where they own the media and they're in the cultural conversation. And I think that that is definitely where it's going. And I just, uh, I'm excited about your festival because I think it's overdue. I think it's something that brands, especially right now, really need to be discussing.

Speaker B: We can't wait for you to come down there, Steve, and do some of your podcasts from down there and talk to all the people.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, man, I'm excited. I'm there. Like, I think, I mean, I looked at your speaker list alone and every single one of them is like a dream guest of mine. Forget everybody else that's going to be there. So, yeah, it's going to be really fun.

Speaker B: And we're just getting started. We're trying to, getting more and more speakers.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, for anyone listening, um, we're going to put the Link to the Jupiter Festival and look hard at the speaker list and also what's going on at the festival and how it's been designed because it is truly unique. This is unlike anything I've been to. And I've been to so many that like a lot of people, I'm bored with the same old thing. And I think what you guys are doing is really original. And one of the things that I think is really cool is that before you create, uh, a festival like this, you all are creating a brand. And I love that you picked Jupiter and I love what you're doing. What's the belief behind it? Because I do think it's really fun here to be on the precipice of the first one. But I have a feeling we're going to be talking about the 5th and 6th and 10th someday. I hope. It would be so much fun to have you guys going. Yeah, I do too. So what was the belief behind founding this? And I love that you picked Jupiter. What's behind all that?

Speaker C: So, Jupiter. Look, you have to pick a name, don't you?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right. And if you're going to have a brand, you need to figure it out. And, uh, so we did a few brainstorming sessions and I mean, I think Jupiter was one that I came up with and I was searching and. And then you start to look at what does Jupiter stand for? You know, it's the planet of gods. So that kind of seems a bit appropriate for, uh. Let's go some of the people who might be coming. But fundamentally it's the planet of knowledge and growth. Right. So it is aligned the kind of ethos of, um, and it goes back to Greek mythology and all sorts. But the concept that this is about knowledge and it's about growth just sat so perfectly with what we're about. Yeah. And I thought this is. And um, you know, how could it say, hey, I'm going to Jupiter, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah, right.

Speaker C: I mean, that's conversation worthy of, you know, you know, that's all we talked about.

Speaker B: Uncharted territory. Exploration of Jupiter's uncharted territory. And, um, you know, when you ask the point where, you know, we're going to be in Miami, I think, for three years, um, um, and we might go somewhere else or we might do some of these around the world, we don't know yet. But we want it to grow and we want it to keep going. And we think that content will always be there. Content is always going to be king. And we don't know what that will look like in maybe three or four years, but there's got to be. Who knows how people will be creating it, but there will always be a place that people need to go to learn how to create it. And we'll never run out of different ways that content will be digested by consumers around the world.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's really exciting, and I just am, um, in love with the name you all picked because I think Jupiter has this very aspirational feeling and it feels, to put it very simply, big. It feels like something big is going to happen, and I love that. And I think the emotions that you all want associated with Jupiter, of curiosity and exploration and real conversation and I think are really unique for festivals like this. So, you know, kudos to you guys for doing something actually different, not just repackaging the same old thing and calling it different.

Speaker C: Yeah, we appreciate that.

Speaker B: Thanks, Steve.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure.

Speaker C: Yes, we are building a brand. Jupiter is going to be a brand, and I want it to be, you know, this is our first year, and, you know, we'll start and, you know, we'll grow next year and we'll grow the year after. And, you know, you're right. Five years from now, I want it to be the place you have to go if you're doing anything with content. You cannot afford not to be at Jupiter. Right. Because you're going to miss out. So, uh, that's our aspiration. And Eric and I worked very hard to begin with to figure out how does the brand manifest itself? What are the value, all the stuff that you would expect around brand architecture that we've worked on. Um, and I'm really pleased with the way it's, it's, it's, it's showing up, you know, um, throughout everything. Every touch point that we have, our brand is, is really important. Yeah. Uh, and we're very, very big on brand building.

Speaker B: Uh, we've been lucky enough to work for companies in our, you know, careers that, you know, the brand is really all you have, you know, in a sense. And, and the companies that survive have a brand positioning. They have a mission statement. They are a brand. You can never bastardize the brand. The brand is what a company is. And so, um, that was, you know, to William's credit. That's, you know, when we sat down, he really talked about what we stood for. And so it's exciting that we are being able to convey, uh, it to other people.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And getting to talk to you all, you know, a couple of times, I can feel like the, the commitment to staying on course with the values that you've decided are the most important for Jupiter. And I think, you know, there's a lot of people that do events or festivals that it becomes just about promoting the festival, having the festival be successful. It isn't really about having the brand be genuine and experiential. And I think that that's something that I really sense is different about this. And you can kind of tell by the speaker list by the people who have committed to come and speak, they are not the usual suspects. You guys have some really heavy hitters and some really original angles that you're taking and it's an exciting thing. I think people are going to see this and want to be there because of uh, how different it is.

Speaker B: So how exciting to have like, you know, we've know both William, I've known Jay Goodman for a long time, who has been on the forefront of branded entertainment forever.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, Evan Shapiro who's been talking about the media universe forever. Um, and to, you know, Neil Waller who's you know, content creation. Um, a lot of these guys, um, you know, whether it be, you know, Ross Martin at Known, um, these guys are kind of trendsetters and they've always sort of bucked the system in a sense. Uh, even looking at, you know, Wendy McMahon who was at CBS and Paramount and you know, uh, all these people were people that did stuff. Um, they were pioneers in Mavericks. And that's kind of the theme of what we are, you know, the future of content. We need pioneers and we need Mavericks in order to change things.

Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I looked at the list and you know, I had Ross Martin on the podcast for that very reason is he's like the most popular disruptor and known as my favorite independent agency. And their work just isn't the usual thing. The way that they do IP and brand entertainment is I really think the future, I think they are just early. So having him and some of the other people you named, I think one of the through lines I saw with what people experience when they come to Jupiter is that they are going to get a really original, very cutting edge point of view on what content really can be. There's a ton of opportunity here.

Speaker B: It can manifestation. One of our speakers, Carlo Nozada, is the group CEO of uh, Ballock Wonder Studios. And they just put on all the opening ceremonies for the World cup and the Milan Olympics. But you know, content can be live content, it can be, uh, you know, it's, you know, it could be content that's filmed that they put on. So there's so many. What is. How do people communicate with each other now? And so, um, content is just. They're finding new ways to get to bring emotion to people. Content's always been about, you know, can you instill emotion and create an emotional connection to consumers? And that's always sort of driven my career and Williams as well. And we've been able to work with brands where, you know, like at Nike was all about, you know, creating emotion for people.

Speaker A: So that's what works. That is what. That's how we are built as humans.

Speaker B: We're all human. That's how we're. That's how we're raised. That's how we are instinctively.

Speaker A: When you have something that people feel, that's the engine and that's how it grows and how it is going to succeed. So if someone's listening right now, and maybe they work in marketing or media or sports, we have a lot of decision makers that listen in. Um, maybe they're in content creation and maybe they're going to be a decision maker someday. And that's their aspiration. Maybe they're not there when they're wondering. Okay, I'm listening to this and is Jupiter for me, though. Can I go? What do you guys say to them? You know, the people who aren't. You're going to have a ton of decision makers there and people are going to be making relationships and, you know, forming the beginnings of deals and things are going to be happening. But for that tier of people who are aspiring to that, what do you say to them?

Speaker C: Well, look, the festival is open to every. We're not elitist. I mean, uh, there's a price point which encourages more senior people. But my experience would be that about a third of the people will be C suite. Yeah, yeah. And a third will be VPs, and a third will be the VPs and C Suite of tomorrow.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: We want to encourage. I mean, we think it's because it's all about learning. We welcome. We want the young. We want the young creators. We want people who are disrupting. We want them to be able to be exposed to this. We want them to come in and then they could have a conversation that changes everybody's mind. You know, Uh, I mean, an idea, great ideas come from anywhere. And we've always. I've always believed that it doesn't have to come from the top down. It comes from the bottom up as well. So we welcome everybody. We, we want to be a place where people come and learn So I say to anybody listening, it's going to be amazing exposure to a lot of great conversations about where the future of content is going. And if you are involved in it or you want to be involved in it or you love it, it's the place to be, to learn and be on the ground. And it's the first time. So, you know, there is kind of. No, it's an open canvas, in a sense. They can help create the next one in a sense.

Speaker C: So we do have a, uh, you know, uh, early in career ticket. Yeah. So there's a, you know, we want, we want young blood there. We want the, you know, we want the leaders of the future to be part of this. Yeah. Because they will, they will challenge and push the incumbents. Yeah. So, you know, that's part of it is to create a, um, you know, a massive kind uh, of just this environment where stuff gets stimulated. Yeah. Where debate takes place and discussions take place and people, you know, you know, it'd be great to see people having heated debates about this, you know, as, you know, not just the, yeah, you know, same old, same old. And uh, look, we'll be designing our, you know, even the panels have to be edgy, you know. So like I said, I mean, it. Look, uh, you know, I'm super excited that we're going to create something for the industry that I think is just needed. It's just needed. It's kind of, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, you know, looking at the way that you all have structured the ticketing and the cost of it, I think it's very friendly to not only leaders, but to, uh, people who are aspiring leaders. And, you know, when I was looking at, I was picturing young creatives being there because just to be around these conversations, if you have an opinion about content or if you're curious or you're trying to grow in the field of content, man, you want to be at Jupyter. I mean, it's just going to be, it's going to be really cool. So let me ask you just two final questions. You know, you guys are working hard on this. It's coming together beautifully. I think it's going to be an amazing event in October in Miami.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: You know, if you're done and it's, uh, and you've gotten through your first one, what outcome would make you the most proud?

Speaker B: I mean, just, uh, you know, I mean, William says the three, six, nine. I just want, I want to hear feed. I want people to say, I can't wait for next year. I Mean, that to me sums up everything, is that it is on my calendar now. And I can't wait to come back and learn more. I mean, that, to me would be brilliant.

Speaker C: Yeah. And look. And for people to have come and then post on social media that they had a great time and, you know, just to repeat exactly what we said, I learned something. I met people that I want to follow up with, and, boy, did I have some fun, you know, and if that is. If that is what we get known for and we start to build, you know, a destination for the industry, um, that's what success looks like. Yeah. We're here for years to come. Not for this once.

Speaker A: I'll tell you, it's exciting stuff. So last question isn't exactly a question, but I just want. It's such a pleasure to have you guys here and I'm really excited about the Jupiter Festival in October, and we'll have tons of resources that people can find out more about it on your episode page. And we'll be spreading this all over social media. But the one thing I wanted to just make sure I do is that there's so many angles to come at this from. I just want to give you guys a second. Like, the floor is yours for the last question. And you guys just. Is there anything I missed? Is there anything you want to make sure people know?

Speaker B: And thank you, Steve. Thank you again for believing in it and having us today.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: I guess I think the last thing I would kind of say to people is that, um, don't be afraid to learn new things. In a sense. Um, I think sometimes, and I was a CMO sometimes. And sometimes, you know, you get in your. I felt this sometimes. You were like, I got it all figured out. I got it all figured out. Um, and the times where I've had the most fun is when I say to myself, you really don't have it all figured out. Um, you want to learn. And curiosity is what keeps me going in the world. And I would just say that if you're curious about things, come to Jupyter. And that's kind of what I would say to people.

Speaker C: Yeah, I would second that. I think, you know, I would encourage anybody who's involved in content, whether it's through from. You know, I create it, I sell it, I leverage it, I use it to get my message across. You know, I'm a brand, I'm a marketeer, I'm a chief content officer. I'm, you know, uh, uh, just come with an open mind. Yeah. And just be prepared to absorb because you're going to enjoy it. Yeah. I promise you, you're going to enjoy it. Uh, and then you'll go away fulfilling what we're laid out to do, which is new ideas, new people to get to do business with and come back next year.

Speaker A: Um, those are great ending notes, you guys, and honestly, I'm super excited and looking forward to. To it. I've been working in content and brand marketing for years and years, so I think that, uh, anyone listening in that is either in the industry. Exactly. Positioned in content or just ancillary to it that's really curious about where it's going needs to consider this one. And I think you all are well on your way to some great, uh, success with this. I think it's going to be amazing. So thank you so much for stopping by the podcast. I'm so excited I got to talk to you both and I'm looking forward to doing it more and in person.

Speaker B: Can't wait to meet you in person, Steve, and good, uh, luck, and thank you very much.

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