Building Your Brand: The Future-Proof Path for Mortgage Professionals with Dustin Owen

Rutger Van Faassen (00:02.179) Hello and welcome to another episode of Banking on Information. Today, my guest is Dustin Owen, is the host of Loan Officer podcast and CEO of TLOPS, originator coaching. Welcome to the podcast, Dustin.

Dustin Owen, CMB (00:19.2) Rutger thank you for having me. And by the way, I absolutely love the name of your show, Banking on Information. Rutger Van Faassen (00:26.

154) There you go. Yeah, that's the information banker that was that Dustin Owen, CMB (00:27.308) Yeah, was that was that all you was that all you that come up with the name? Did you have to utilize your friend chat or like run it past a bunch of colleagues?

Rutger Van Faassen (00:36.261) Well, So my daughter came up with the name of my business, Information Banker, and being the Information Banker, then very naturally the name of the podcast became Banking on Information. That's kind of like how that went. But yeah, my daughter gets kudos for Information Banker.

When she was nine years old, she said, hey dad, you're a banker, right? And I was like, well, sort of. I work with bankers. And then she walks away and then...

Dustin Owen, CMB (00:40.77) Okay. Dustin Owen, CMB (00:48.996) I love it.

think it's smart. Rutger Van Faassen (01:04.481) at the dinner table, someone, a friend of the family asked her, what does your dad do? And she's like, well, my dad's an information banker.

And it's like, that is a pretty interesting way of saying what I do. Cause yes, I work with a lot of bankers. helped them with information. So that was, it was a pretty good way to describe me.

And that became the name of my business. That became my handle and that became the inspiration for banking on information. So. Dustin Owen, CMB (01:27.

842) Well, that's a smart kid you have. Rutger Van Faassen (01:30.923) Right. Yeah, no, very, very, very pleased to have her as my chief marketing officer and have her help think through how to name things in my business empire.

Let's start with that one question that we ask everyone and let's see what your answer is to it. Dustin, why do you do what you do? Dustin Owen, CMB (01:54.478) Wow, why do I do what I do?

I can't say for the money, right? I mean, at end of the day, we all do work for the money. Even those of us that have money, we still do it for the money, no matter how passionate we are about the career choice that we've made or the services that we provide to the industry that we support. So I would like to say truthfully and honestly, yeah, I do it because I want to...

Rutger Van Faassen (01:58.873) Hmm. Rutger Van Faassen (02:02.925) Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Rutger Van Faassen (02:18.787) Mm-hmm. Dustin Owen, CMB (02:22.

574) provide for my family. Now, why do I choose to do what I do to provide for my family? I at end of the day, I love personal finance. I love coaching people.

I love helping people. So I got started in the mortgage industry 20 years ago as a mortgage loan originator. I learned quickly as a mortgage loan originator, which by the way, at that time in my life, I could have easily probably gone to Northwestern Mutual to sell life insurance. I probably could have easily gone to Charles Schwab and gone through their financial advisor program.

I probably could have been convinced to go to Jones Lang LaSalle and get into commercial real estate, all very similar career fields. But as the world works, I knew a guy who knew a guy who was working for a particular mortgage company who hired people who had sales experience, but not finance experience and put them through a training program. Rutger Van Faassen (03:07.001) Mm-hmm.

Dustin Owen, CMB (03:15.852) And I happened to be at a place in my career and my life that I was unhappy with what I was doing. But at the end of the day, the mortgage industry found me. I found the mortgage industry and then I fell in love quickly because it was entrepreneurial because it had unlimited income growth potential.

But more importantly, because I could help the most people. I could coach people on financial matters that quite honestly weren't taught to me when I was in high school. They weren't. Rutger Van Faassen (03:21.

593) Mm-hmm. Rutger Van Faassen (03:28.089) Okay. Yep.

Dustin Owen, CMB (03:45.007) things that were discussed at my dinner table. And even when I went off to college and I achieved my degree in advertising, none of the coursework that I took was talking about things like ROI or the rule of 72 or compound interest, or even how to leverage real estate to generate wealth in America. So I think I fell in love with the industry because I got to teach and coach all of the things that weren't taught to me, but I had this thirst Rutger Van Faassen (03:47.

491) Mm-hmm. Dustin Owen, CMB (04:13.944) to want to know more about. And then that has morphed into, yes, I do host the number one podcast for the mortgage industry and really their clients.

So home buyers, real estate agents and mortgage originators tend to tune into my show twice a week, every week. And because of the popularity of that show, I've been able to go on and coach other mortgage loan originators based on my passion and based on my success in the industry. Rutger Van Faassen (04:44.099) So you really fell in love with the mortgage industry and it kind of found you.

And then as a result of that, you not only took that the first level, so teaching people about mortgages, but now also teaching people how to sell mortgages, which I think is very interesting. And I love what you do with your, with your podcasts. I think that is, that is a very powerful platform and a great way also to teach, right. and for people to sort of learn about what you do and what goes on in your head and how you think about the market.

What is the number one thing that you do in your coaching business? What do people get when they become a coaching client of yours? Dustin Owen, CMB (05:14.978) Yeah, it is.

And thank you for those compliments. Dustin Owen, CMB (05:28.448) Yeah, so like you study successful people throughout life. We can do Tom Brady as the greatest quarterback ever.

You could look at a Jack Welch, one of the greatest business men ever. And no one ever achieves their success alone. Tom Brady, yes, he had Bill Belichick, but Tom Brady also had offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches that the Patriots provided him. Tom Brady also had outside coaches that supported him.

Jack Welch, same thing. He had mentors and coaches. So what I've learned throughout my career is that none of us do it alone, but with the right coach, you can shorten your learning curve. And the coaching that I do, it's not about teaching a mortgage broker or a loan officer the difference between FHA, VA and conventional financing or how to calculate a payment or what is debt-to-income ratio, what is loan to value.

No, I think those are things that they can learn Rutger Van Faassen (06:23.032) Mm-hmm. Dustin Owen, CMB (06:25.934) through other avenues, but they're important.

They're important tools of the trade, but most mortgage loan originators aren't entrepreneurs. They don't know how to market. They don't know how to say, they don't know how to sell. They don't know what to say.

They don't know how to structure their days, their weeks. They don't know the importance of all the things that you probably take for granted, because they come second nature to you and your business. But these men and women are coming into the industry, Rutger Van Faassen (06:27.596) Yep.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Dustin Owen, CMB (06:53.046) and no one is teaching them the importance of knowing their numbers and knowing their data.

So a lot of what we do over at TLOPS Originator Coaching is like we remove the guesswork. We shorten the learning curve. It's me. I have five incredible coaches.

All five of my coaches are in the trenches. They are top producers and we essentially teach other originators. This is what we did to become successful. And this is what we're doing to stay on top.

So it leans heavily into how to structure your day, your week, your year. What information to track, what to prioritize, how to market, how to sell, how to convert leads at a high percentage, and how to create the most amount of value to both your referral sources as well as to the consumer that you're ultimately serving. Rutger Van Faassen (07:38.541) Yeah, Now that is, that is very powerful.

And obviously the sports analogy is always, is always a great one. to sort of say, Hey, If you look at really top performing athletes, everyone has a coach. right? They know how to play the game really well, but they really couldn't do it without a coach.

So having a coach is very important to get the maximum out of what you, what you're doing in your life. Dustin Owen, CMB (07:59.779) Yeah, we all need a good runway, right? We all have a short period of time, whether you're starting your own food truck, your own sports bar, your own nail salon.

Most of us don't have an infinite supply of money. So at some point our businesses need to turn profitable. So for mortgage brokers and loan officers and even branch managers or heck, we have company owners that are clients of ours. And you look at the revenue they're bringing in, you look at the business goals they have in front of them.

And what does it take to get a big airplane off the ground? It takes thrust and it takes runway. Well, we can't provide the thrust. Only the individual or that that team can can provide the thrust.

But what we can do is we can make sure that we allow that person to have enough runway so that they can get their plane off the ground. Because if they didn't have a coach or a mentor, they may easily run out of runway, which means you run out of money. And then. and your big plane ends up crashing with a whole tank of fuel, and that can be pretty disastrous.

Rutger Van Faassen (09:00.0) Right. Yeah, no, that's not what we're, what we're looking to do there. Now, when, when you are successful with, with your clients, how do they talk about that?

What did they tell you the value in their words they get, they're getting from working with you. Dustin Owen, CMB (09:15.512) mean, The value that they get typically is in career fulfillment. Career fulfillment is I'm enjoying what I'm doing because I'm less scared, I'm less lost, but it's also in monetary gain.

Last year was my best year ever. So I talked to a lady who graduated from one of my boot camps, I talked to her two weeks ago. Her income is up 50 % year over year. I had an ex-client of mine, he coached with me for three years.

Rutger Van Faassen (09:23.574) Yeah. Yeah. Rutger Van Faassen (09:29.

496) Mm-hmm. Dustin Owen, CMB (09:43.343) And he referred me one of his friends. It's actually one of his competitors, believe it or not.

Same market, they work for different mortgage companies. But this guy, Ben, was like, Dustin, when I met you, I was literally closing one loan a month. This year, I'm going to close $40 million in volume. He's like, how could I not give your contact information to my friend, even if he competes against me?

Because if he can have half the results that I've had, Rutger Van Faassen (09:46.146) Yeah. Dustin Owen, CMB (10:10.082) then I hope he can have the same satisfaction that I currently have.

So I think for most people, it's feeling less lost, less scared. And also there's a monetary gain component where they are trying to achieve certain business goals in revenue, in income earned. And for us, I think that's where we bring the most value. Rutger Van Faassen (10:20.

205) Of Rutger Van Faassen (10:29.964) Yeah, no, that is something That is obviously important. right? You're getting the coaching to make sure that you hit your goals and then some, but it's also great to hear that people sort of feel less scared and they feel more confident in what they're doing.

So they actually enjoy doing their job day to day. Cause it is obviously, it is something that you want to want out of life, right? You want to be doing something day to day that you enjoy doing. And then if it results in monetary benefit, that's great.

Dustin Owen, CMB (10:58.957) Yes. Rutger Van Faassen (11:00.47) Now I like to do this thing called future thinking, which is we don't know what the future is going to hold, but we can think about a possible future.

So let's think 10 years out. So 2035, that's quite far out, right? A decade out. Let's think about What do you think the mortgage industry could look like?

What is the life of a mortgage originator, a loan officer? What does that look like 10 years from now Dustin Owen, CMB (11:12.238) Okay. Dustin Owen, CMB (11:25.

998) I love doing this. Absolutely love it. And, you know, please know I'm not Nostradamus. I don't have a crystal ball, but I still love to play one on TV.

And by TV, I mean like my YouTube channel. So I'm thinking 2030, but you're pushing me out to 2035. Okay. I think for the first time, I can say this confidently.

The mortgage industry looks drastically different than it has over the past 25 years. Rutger Van Faassen (11:31.224) Right. Yup.

Yup. Rutger Van Faassen (11:45.272) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dustin Owen, CMB (11:55.02) Now, I think many industries look drastically different in 2030, let alone 2035. So when I'm looking at the mortgage industry, an industry that for the most part is pale, male and stale, an industry that tends to be very slow at successfully adopting technology. And when they do, it has yet to actually lower cost or lower headcount.

If I go to 2035, I see a mortgage originator being a face, being a personal brand, being the human that people want to trust and want to like. But this individual is going to have the ability to fund three times the units, three times the volume that they're doing today without working more hours. But it's going to be having to do three times the units and three times the volume. Rutger Van Faassen (12:41.

42) Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dustin Owen, CMB (12:52.75) for the same commission. So I don't see doing three times the units, three times the volume at the same average commission rate per transaction. Now, it'll be inflation adjusted, right?

So obviously home values continue to go up, average loan size is continuing to go up. But I think in terms of basis points being paid out to the originator, I can see that being cut by a third, but I can also see the originator Rutger Van Faassen (13:03.188) Right. OK.

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Dustin Owen, CMB (13:22.

252) because of the leverage of tech and technology and the amount of work that machines are going to be doing behind the scenes, then they're going to have to manage their agentic agents. They're going have to manage their technology. They're going to have to be the human that people can rely on. So their personal brand is going to matter because at the end of the day, the technology will be pretty comparable from one firm to the next.

But the humans that are actually managing the robots Rutger Van Faassen (13:42.84) Totally. Rutger Van Faassen (13:47.714) Mm-hmm.

Dustin Owen, CMB (13:52.024) will be the difference maker. I think those that go all in on their personal brand on being the most known, being the source of information or the subject matter expert, I think those are the people that are gonna be able to attract referrals, attract leads, and then they're gonna ask their machines or their agents or their robots to do the work. And I think it's still a great profession.

I still think it's a profession where you can have untapped income potential and you can be a high earner. but I don't think it looks anything like it has from 2010 all the way through 2025. Rutger Van Faassen (14:26.457) Right.

That is a very, very interesting vision that you have. So not only is it going to get way more efficient, but that is also going to impact how people get paid. it's going to sort of keep up with the efficiency gain. You're basically saying people are going to get lower commissions because it gets easier to close loans.

Dustin Owen, CMB (14:49.141) It'll Correct. The easier it gets, then the less we're needed. The good news is the people we serve, home buyers, middle America, the average consumer, they're messy.

And the messier the situation, the more that a great loan originator is needed. And what I mean by that is so few people have 800 credit scores. They work a W-2 salary position. They have money in the bank and they have a low debt-to-income ratio.

Very few. Like 1 in 10, probably. So 9 in 10, well, their pay is variable. They have divorces.

They may have some credit blemishes. They may be self-employed. There may be something unique about their transaction that needs some customization. So the more a loan file needs to be customized, the more unique a situation, the more a human needs to be involved.

Rutger Van Faassen (15:22.745) Right. Yep. Yep.

Rutger Van Faassen (15:29.069) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dustin Owen, CMB (15:46.

914) But those low hanging fruit, those cream puffs, call them. No, I mean, could you very well with the right technology, DIY your mortgage? You probably could. Now my concern would be you can still get the wrong mortgage.

Just because you qualify doesn't mean you get the best mortgage for you, because mortgages need to be tailor-made based on people's financial needs, wants and goals and their current life scenarios. But Rutger Van Faassen (15:58.197) Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dustin Owen, CMB (16:15.405) Why couldn't I program an agent to be able to walk someone through a Q &A session, at which point the agent can still give three options to the consumer. And those three options could still be based on what the consumer stated their financial needs, wants and goals were. One thing I will say, and I love the fact that you said 2035 instead of 2030.

I think that wherever the world gets by 2030, it will take the mortgage industry until 2035 to get there. We are the slowest to move, the slowest to adopt, the slowest to adapt. And it's a pretty cumbersome process due to the number of stakeholders involved in just one transaction. But it is going to happen, even if it doesn't happen in five years and it takes 10 years.

Rutger Van Faassen (17:03.971) Right. Now, if that future becomes reality, what can we do today to get ready for that future? Dustin Owen, CMB (17:13.

889) Focus on your personal brand. Dominate being the most well-known person in your community, in your market, in your neighborhood. Create content, post content. Be the source of information.

Be the person that people wanna call because you will quote unquote, hook them up. You'll hook them up with an answer. You'll make an introduction to another service professional. Like you need to make yourself the most well-known, the most connected.

I had this saying that I learned years ago that I love and I travel probably two dozen times a year speaking on main stages at national conferences, also doing private events for mortgage companies. And I probably use this saying in at least every other presentation I give. And it's that your net worth is the sum of your network. I don't think that changes.

So if I'm a loan originator, I need to make sure I have the most expansive network. Rutger Van Faassen (18:05.784) Yeah. Dustin Owen, CMB (18:13.

357) so that those men and women know to call me when they're looking to buy a house, sell a house, they need a recommendation to a life insurance agent, a financial advisor, a divorce attorney, or heck, maybe they do need a home loan. At which point, I want to be their connection, not just for home loans, but to all of those services. Rutger Van Faassen (18:30.68) Yeah, now that is very important.

It has always been very important and it's going to be even more important in the future to have that personal brand, to be that trusted person that people want to go to, right? People want to... Dustin Owen, CMB (18:38.869) Yes.

Yeah, but I think we now all are racing to the consumer. And that wasn't always the case as a loan originator or a mortgage broker. Rarely did anyone ever wake up saying, gosh, I'd love to go in debt for 30 years. Let me call my bank or my credit union or my favorite mortgage broker.

No, they said, I would love to own a home. Let me call a realtor. Then that realtor Rutger Van Faassen (19:01.582) Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Dustin Owen, CMB (19:04.897) would say, are you pre-approved? you're not.

I need you to talk to your bank or credit union or talk to my favorite mortgage broker. I think going forward now more than ever, I think we have to race, even if it's alongside of, we need to race alongside of the real estate community to get to that consumer first, because if we don't, predictive analytics is going to. If we don't, whoever did their loan the last time is going to. If we don't, whoever services their current loan is going to.

Rutger Van Faassen (19:32.94) Yeah. Now I think that is very, very powerful and very important. Probably also a good point to wrap this up on.

Thank you very much, Dustin, for being on the podcast. Dustin Owen, CMB (19:44.309) Rutger, so appreciate you having me on and everyone tuning in. I appreciate you tuning in.

Connect with me on LinkedIn, first name Dustin, last name Owen. Go to my YouTube channel, at the Loan Officer podcast. Subscribe, or if you want to follow me on Instagram, at the Loan Officer podcast. Rutger Van Faassen (20:00.

751) Perfect. Thank you so much for being on and until next time, choose to be curious.