In Defence of the Studio Upgrade

Speaker A: Just like that, we're live. Um, and, you know, it's only seven. I should have waited to 808. Really. I should have waited to 808 dot but that's fine. Um, it is. I mean, it's not. Oh, it's the 9th as well. Right. So it's. Technically, it's 909. I should have started at 808. It's a shame. Okay, there's next time. It's next year. It's always next year. Welcome.

Speaker B: The year 9000.

Speaker A: Always. Yeah. Always welcome. Uh, guys, thank you. Thank, uh, you for being here. It's amazing to see so many people turning out for what is meant to be the first courtroom drama of Audio Nortek. Um, welcome. Uh, lovely to be here. This is adsn. I'm here with Eon. How you doing, man? It's nice to see your face.

Speaker B: I'm good, yeah. Yeah, Happy to be here, as always. But, yeah, I'm all right. Doing okay. Despite not a huge amount of music, really, in the last week. Just the occasional little bits of noodling, but enough to keep me going. I'm good for the.

Speaker A: For the purposes of the Crest. Heads in the room. Where's the album at?

Speaker B: Um, yeah, I need to do some work on that. I've been a bit. A bit of a naughty boy. And I've been, uh, moonlighting, writing new stuff when I should be finishing that.

Speaker A: Yeah, Sacred. You've been going for the easy dopamine this week?

Speaker B: Yeah, I have. I have. Well, I haven't really. I've, uh, been telling myself I haven't had long. I've got some big edits to do, and I keep thinking I've got enough time to do that now. I'll just jam instead. But, yeah, it's gonna have to be done.

Speaker A: Get it, man.

Speaker B: I mean, procrastination, it will probably take half the time. I think it will as well. That's the thing. I need to do it justice. I'm just lying to myself, obviously. Lies.

Speaker A: It is more challenging, right? It's not. It's not the. Necessarily the fun work. It's not necessarily the. The sexy dopamine releasing.

Speaker B: No. It's not even mixing, you know, it's just, you know, editing arrangements and. Yeah, it's not much fun. So much fun. But it's not that bad either. I don't know why I'm making such a mood of it.

Speaker A: But we do do that.

Speaker B: I promise to get on with it.

Speaker A: We'll get there. We'll get there. Well, I've. There's There's a fleet of, uh, police cars outside today. I live on the first floor.

Speaker B: Oh, they found you then.

Speaker A: Yeah, apparently so. It must have been that googling of, uh, cultivating seeds, um, that I was

Speaker B: doing, um, herbology law.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Um, and now they found me. No, there's. There is a little bit of something going on, so I do apologize if anything comes through. Uh, but the police are outside, um, but surrounding a car which is not my apartment. So we're in a good space.

Speaker B: Um, so it's good when the thing being surrounded it's not you.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Um, that is my. That is my privilege as a straight white male. Um, so, uh, we've got some people in the chat already. Uh, Yonik does put the dope in dopamine. Mike. That is.

Speaker B: Thank you. I think.

Speaker A: I think I love that.

Speaker B: Pretty sure I. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker A: Definitely worth it. Survey is here. Um, it's lovely. Survey. Survey channel. Um, I'm trying to. Well, I sent you a message earlier today, um, trying to get survey channels. Come on the show in the next couple of weeks. Talk about his new EP that released a couple of weeks ago. Um, that will be fun. Um, yes, uh, Bendu is here. Uh, which is lovely to see. It's gonna be. It's going okay. It's happy to be here. It's glad. Everything's going okay. Dude. It's exactly what we need. Um, so, yeah, welcome. It's lovely to have you here. We are, ah, having, uh. I suppose you could call this kind of sort of uh, a. An exercise in such. In the, uh. We've talked about gas before. Gear acquisition syndrome. We've talked about acquiring new gear before. But I'm coming from a space where I want to take the extremes. I've got all the evidence to suggest that I should upgrade my mixing desk. And the. On lake, uh, has, uh, been given the remit or He. He didn't. I didn't give him the remit. He just, uh, insists on disagreeing with me in every. In every notion. Uh, we're going to talk about why I definitely don't need to upgrade my mixer. For context, I have the test cam model 12, which is beautiful. It's a beautiful mixer, beautiful piece of hardware. Um, and there is a part of me that wants the test cam 16, possibly even the 32. Um, wow.

Speaker B: I considered the 24.

Speaker A: Did you m. What?

Speaker B: I did.

Speaker A: You went. You've got. You've got an inbuilt, you've got a digital mixer, right?

Speaker B: I have, yeah. So I Had a Soundcraft signature 24 input. It's right here on its side in front of the table that my modular stuff is on. Um, they have this issue where the power supply tends to blow quite regularly. Capacitors on the. It's a separate power supply. It's still inside the mixer. It's a separate power supply board and the capacitors on it tend to blow and overheat. And it's happened three times now and I got a bit sick and tired of it. So I decided I was going to get a new mixer. Uh, and yeah, the test cam 24 was one I looked at. Um, but I ended up getting a Pre sonus Studio Line 24 which is double height rack mount digital mixer with 24 inputs and a bunch of outputs on the back that I've forgotten about. But they are there. I do use them.

Speaker A: Okay. And it's been plugged in. It just sorts you out and so you need.

Speaker B: Yeah, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say any more about it until you've justified this nonsense to me. And that's. So what's Wrong with a 12 input console these days then? Uh, that says it stopped producing sound. Is that what's happened?

Speaker A: Well, okay, hang on, just let me. Let's just say hi to fcc. Seeing he's here.

Speaker B: Definitely do that.

Speaker A: Listening. What? Listening while he cooks. It's lovely to see you, Paul. Hope you're doing well. Um, yeah, it's always lovely to see your face and hear where you're at, bro. So let us know where, let us know what's going on in your world. Well, okay, to kick all this off, I haven't got enough inputs. I um, just don't have, I just don't have enough inputs.

Speaker B: Ah, and so what is enough inputs then? So that you can have absolutely everything in your studio connected at the same time. So that you can run around the room playing each thing in turn,

Speaker A: looping it around, controlling it with uh, the, either the um, push to or you know, the Tascam model. I, ah, Suppose Tascam Model 24 and Tascam Model 16 are all DAW controllers,

Speaker B: but you're just using it. If you're anything like me, you're just using it as an audio interface. Right. It's giving you, you're using it for uh, port density.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: You can plug multiple things into your laptop and record them. Although you probably, if you're like me, don't record a lot of them simultaneously.

Speaker A: It's, it might, it's true. I Think I'm coming from a space of, uh, frictions. I'm coming from a space of trying to, uh, remove friction within my workflow. So this idea that if it's already plugged in, I don't have to necessarily go find the right cable, patch it up and you know, put into place

Speaker B: stuff in this workflow of yours that you speak of. Right. How much, how much friction are you suffering exactly?

Speaker A: Oh, a great deal. It's tough.

Speaker B: I mean, is it really genuinely friction or is it the fact that you like, uh, lots of channels and blinky lights?

Speaker A: I like me. I do. I don't think they're exclusive. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, you can light, you can like faders and flashing lights and you can enjoy that. And also there is this, there's this. I don't know when you're in a flow state, when you're in a flow state and when you're trying to work something out, you need to do something. You want to put something in a certain place or you want to root something somewhere. I don't know. I get really frustrated when it comes to the point of, oh, I want to plug my guitar into this, for example. Oh, but wait, I can't do that because I've already got something plugged in here. I've got to unplug this, I've got to unplug that. I've m got to move things around. You know, I've got trailing cables at the back of the task cam to switch things over.

Speaker B: These things can happen on occasion where, you know, you've got to undo something to do something else. But if you're entirely honest with yourself, um, do you need a mixer or do you need a patch bay?

Speaker A: It's a good, that's a good, that's a good, that's a good argument. What, what would be your argument for a patch bay?

Speaker B: Um, well, if you're talking about wanting to have everything connected and easy to plug into your computer, but not actually necessarily physically connected because that means having a huge number of ports, you could have some relatively cheap rack mounted quarter inch or smaller patches. You can have all your com, all of your equipment connected to that represented on there and you can just get a little cable and go that output into that input. That output into that input. I'm, um, done. You know, studios have been working this way for many a long year. Or you could just patch in what you like.

Speaker A: I mean, it's true. I mean, it's true. You can, that is an option.

Speaker B: Mike's comment. So I admittedly, you know, I accept it sits in the middle, right, because you still have to patch it in. But when you. Especially when you know a patch bay really well and you've got it ordered and everything's represented there, and you don't have to touch the hardware itself, you just literally have to connect two endpoints to patch something into something else. That could be it. You see, if I'm. If I'm honest with you, when I got my. My Soundcraft mixer, I thought I need 24 inputs because there's so many things, especially with left and right on synthesizers and drum machines, doubles the number of ports you need. And then, of course, I'll be analog summing on it, because it's an analog board. I'll be able to run my mixes through it and get that analog character and run it back in and so on. And obviously I never did that. It's a complete theoretical, never happened in the real world argument. And so really, all of it, all I did use it for was like, occasionally as a mic preamp, but really just as a glorified patch bay, really, I didn't even mix on it. I'm mixing inside Ableton, which is, you know, so unless you really are, uh. And there were a few times where I ran a lot of synths live together, but I find nowadays I tend to record them so that I can treat them in certain ways as well. And I couldn't possibly do all of that while they're just playing live simultaneously. And also I found that it was an excuse to have everything running live on MIDI and not to commit to things and just have it all running and it's all good. And I can, uh. I can pretend I'm Orbital my song playing and using the whole studio as an instrument.

Speaker A: But the glasses with the light, it

Speaker B: didn't help me focus. It helped me not commit to things.

Speaker A: And it.

Speaker B: And it got me stuck in a certain way of working where everything was kind of out of the packet a bit. And really what I wanted to do was some more wacky sound design and, you know, focus in on elements and do weird things with them and sculpt them and try and get more sonic variety. So all that being said, you know, is this just an ADHD playground thing where it's like I complete anything, I don't have to do anything, it's just. It all just works, you know? Is that really just a need or is it more of a sickness?

Speaker A: It's a great way of putting it. And I hear everything you're saying. I think the.

Speaker B: Explain, uh, yourself.

Speaker A: Explain yourself. I think.

Speaker B: Give me a reasoning.

Speaker A: I think what it actually comes down to fundamentally is that I have a deep sense of empathy for the input and output connections on my individual devices. Um, when you are, ah, moving things around, when you're plugging, unplugging and shifting things around the studio, you're going to get that natural wear and tear on your expensive hardware. And now that's true. Because it runs.

Speaker B: Seriously. Okay, if you're gonna insult me with it with an argument like that, I will retort with her. But you're dusting those ports by doing that.

Speaker A: You're dusting the ports. Explain yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. By taking the jacks in and out. You're keeping it dust free by doing that.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, so you're arguing that in fact, it's good for the. It's good for the connections.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because otherwise, you know, they get dirty and crackly.

Speaker A: Right. Okay. Okay. So you don't subscribe at all to this notion of the hardware wear and tear?

Speaker B: Dude, I worry about everything in life. I worry about how to eat peas with a fork, but I don't worry about wearing out the jacks of my equipment. Now, you said this. I'll probably start to be fair. But no, it's not been a consideration until now.

Speaker A: Um, I do, I do. It's something I do think about.

Speaker B: Thanks for sewing the seed though.

Speaker A: It's something like on my, uh. It's one thing I, I am being facetious, obviously, in a, in a halfway, but I do think about it. I do think about it on my board, particularly with my SP404, that. Because basically they're. The way I've got it right now is I've got the board as it is. And on the board There is this 12 channel mixer, which is about like yay big, right? For the purpose of the podcast. It's like. It's a small square. It's like that. And it's a glorified splitter. And I send a two track out to the engineer, right. But when I come home and I put it into the studio, I unplug all that from the connections and then I plug directly back into the Model 12 as I do right now. And I can't help but feel that as I move it in and out more and more that those connections on the SP404 are. They can't, they can't last forever. They can't, they can't do that. You know what I mean? And ah, it's it. If I'm plugging things in and out of that and I'm getting, and I'm, I'm, I'm feeling that it's not going to be as strong, the connections are not going to be as strong forever. You know. Why wouldn't it be the same on the Tascam? And the Tascam, it's a, you know, it's a hefty piece of gear. I don't want those connections to suddenly die on me.

Speaker B: I'd like to think they were graded for that kind of use. You know. Don't know if you've ever been to uh, that popular Swedish furniture store, gone to the kitchen department where they've got a little robot that's moving the drawer in and out 10,000 times or something like that. Stress testing the mechanisms. I mean I'd like to think some sort of research has gone into like uh, making a pretty sturdy. Because you know you'll be plugging and unplugging a certain amount and. But I also found myself think it's a large component. It's probably quite an easy solder job. They're very standard things, they could be replaced. Everything breaks. Stop worrying so much. Uh, save your money for a new SP404.

Speaker A: Left.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I, I think when you first suggested this, right I was wondering right how much stuff do you actually have running at the same time that, that legitimately all needs to be patched at the same time? Oh that's not, you know, I do less of it over time. In fact I was looking at some of the SSL boxes that have just got four inputs. Mhm. Really high quality, really great sounding just like four ends. I'm actually going back to the beginning, going back to the Scarlet 2 input USB C end of the market. Despite having a 24 input mixer. Um, because if I'm honest, I just wanted. I was used to working on mixers. I thought I would need one. I thought it would make things easier and I found to my horror that I just didn't really use it much. Not even the EQ on it either. Particularly because yeah, because the signal would come into the Soundcraft and then the feed to the door came before the eq.

Speaker A: Yeah, the same as the test.

Speaker B: I'm not using anything apart from the game knob which is like um, I'm. I felt almost guilty I'm not using this. Which is why I thought right, I should definitely start analog summing my mixes where you send them back out through your mixer and Then back into the door again. So it's been through the board, it's used the eq, it's got the tone of the, of the channels and all the rest of it. And it's just that may or may not be a beneficial thing but the fact of the matter is I'm, I'm, I just not going to do that. I'm um, not. I might do it once or twice step curiosity. But that's not a thing that's ever going to be part of my workflow when I could just be doing it all. And when I'm done, it's done. So yeah, I've come to the realization do I really even need a mixer? Maybe a reasonably small one, but uh, only really for performing live. And if I'm, if I'm thinking about that there's gonna have to be a really small one.

Speaker A: I've got to cut that around, right?

Speaker B: Exactly. And when I say really small, I don't mean like, like my little mackie like 12 input one that I've got here. I mean something like the little zoom ones are about this big that have got like 1012 inputs in because space is really at a premium and you know, I don't have a road crew at all really these days. Never have turned about you. I've got to carry all that stuff myself and I've also got to um, get, keep it from being nicked when I'm playing live. So I don't really want to have a lot of stuff. So I don't know. I love a nice big mixer, but I don't have a useful one. It's kind of my argument.

Speaker A: So when it comes I found that

Speaker B: with a few different types of gear really it makes, is a, a good example but sometimes I would really like something because X, Y, Z. But if I'm um, really honest about it, what would I get from it? If I had would probably be quite minimal. And um, what I would gain from more is knowing what I have already better and spending more time with it.

Speaker A: Uh, so you're advocating for the deeper knowledge of your equipment as opposed to, opposed to a shallower knowledge of more stuff?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And change, you know, just changing the workflow, getting into the nitty gritty, into the detail instead of. I mean I get what you're saying about having hands on control and so on, but I would like to, to explore that in every part. And I can't be playing every part simultaneously. And yeah, you can sort of record it as MIDI so that it plays so that you can do the same thing with something else and so on. But I don't know, I just find myself committing to audio more these days, um, in assure on certain knowledge that you've still got a lot of flexibility once it is committed to audio.

Speaker A: I get you.

Speaker B: I also like the fact that, you know, if you turn it all to audio, uh, and you sculpt the parts so they fit together really well, then you can transfer them as samples onto another bit of kit and it will piece together just as well again, because you're kind of like, sculpting parts, you know, kind of like making jigsaw pieces. And you might be making them, um, you know, to fit in a certain frame. And there's your picture. Lovely. But you can take them and put them somewhere else and you can still stick them together and there's still a picture. And it. It works because you made it properly in the first place.

Speaker A: I get what he's saying.

Speaker B: And, uh, for me, that means, you know, building it slowly, adding pieces, and trying to curb a tendency to overdo it and put too many things in. Because there isn't a maximalist song that I've done that I haven't taken several things out of. Believe it or not.

Speaker A: That's interesting to know. Um. All right. Okay. I hear what you're saying. I understand that you're coming from a space of kind of what you're actually using and how much. Actually using your gear in, uh, tandem and how much of it you're, you know, carefully sculpting versus live looping, etc. So there's definitely a conversation to be had about workflow. Um, I wanna. I've got some other ideas. I want to bring Lars in. At this point, he's been sitting patiently in his back garden.

Speaker B: All right.

Speaker A: Um. And he. He seems to be moving into position in the green room and ready to go. His. His arms are up, just waiting for it. He can see. He's ready. It's like basically Usain Bolt. We're gonna bring him in.

Speaker B: They do.

Speaker A: How you doing?

Speaker B: I want you to remember how directional that microphone is.

Speaker C: That's my bad.

Speaker A: It's okay. We're life. We're lifelong learners. Remember your time at college, Lars?

Speaker C: Yeah, but in my time and what.

Speaker B: Apparently you were there.

Speaker C: Uh, I don't know. They came out with a degree in philosophy, so I must have done something. Something impressive. I don't know.

Speaker A: M. I mean. Or you just pontificated for three years. I mean, that counts.

Speaker C: It counts. All right, so you want A mixer.

Speaker B: I'm a bigger mixer.

Speaker A: A bigger mixer. I already have a mixer. I have a model 12. Right now. I have a Tascam model 12. I am in, uh, I'm in the process of meditating on whether or not that needs to become a 16, 24 or 32. Basically, I need more inputs.

Speaker C: Let me just clarify real quick. You have a 12 input mixer already?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: And you're using all 12 inputs?

Speaker A: I am, yes. Actually, to the extent where I've uh, got gear, which I don't. So I don't use all the gear all the time. Right. But I've got, I've got gear and I've got, you know, other things that require, uh, an input and there, I have to, I have to plug them in, they're not there, etc. Etc.

Speaker C: So one part of me is like, don't do it. Like you can make 12 work. You've been making 12 work, it's fine. Right. Then the other part of me remembers that I occasionally have to dig into a closet or a cabinet to pull out a piece of gear that I want to use for a specific purpose. Purpose. And then put it back.

Speaker A: And that's frustrating. Well, this is, this is, this is what I mean. I mean, no one has understood pain more than the producer that has to go and find the connection before, uh, booting up the synthesizer. The fact that it's not just there to hand. I, I genuinely believe in the, the, the fragile fragility of the flow state and the idea of having an idea, wanting to go to something and then the guy, you got to plug it in, you've got to turn it on and do this and do that. It's a big deal.

Speaker C: You all right? Let's be real. You want the convenience?

Speaker A: Absolutely. 100%.

Speaker B: Welcome to the First World Problems podcast.

Speaker C: Okay. Um, I mean, I can, I'm halfway there with you. It's like, because, man, it's real inconvenient when I gotta pull something out and then unplug something and plug something else in because I want to use that. That's annoying. But also, how much is this mixer you're looking at?

Speaker A: That's a good question. I haven't actually, I haven't got past the past, uh, the fantasy stage. Let's have a Look.

Speaker C: Task.

Speaker A: Uh, Cam 16.

Speaker C: Wait, are we having this conversation? You haven't even done price comparison, bro.

Speaker A: So it's 18. So it's what? It's about 18, 000 Czech crowns. So what's that? It's just Under. It's just under a grand.

Speaker C: Help me.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. There's. And there's. There's a bonus. There's a bona fide reason for that. Uh, the. By the way. So, uh, 18, 000 check crowns is about 863 US dollars.

Speaker C: It's not bad. It's a nice mixer. It's just. That's a big investment for a mixer, at least in my opinion.

Speaker A: And the. It is a big investment, but it's one of those more and more I'm coming along. This idea of my, my gear acquisition syndrome kind of journey has been this thing of, okay, I'll buy this for now and this will be a bridge, and this will be a thing, and this will be, this will get me where I need to be. This is good. This is, you know, and then something else comes along and like for m. The first time in my life I'm in the studio, which is mine, and I, you know, I, I can keep it running. It's a passion, you know, ever. Some people have a shed, you know, some people have a car. I've got a studio. Why wouldn't I want it to be, you know, the best it can be? Why wouldn't I want it to be, you know, the, the absolute fantasy of my brain? Why.

Speaker C: Why would I.

Speaker A: Why would I compromise on, you know, the thing I've dedicated my life to?

Speaker B: Money, usually, I find.

Speaker A: Yeah, but I suppose it's where you put your money, isn't it? I don't have, uh, I don't have like a boutique. I don't have a boutique. Kind of high end, you know, $2,000 synthesizer, for example. Example.

Speaker C: Don't you want though?

Speaker B: I mean, I do think that, uh, if you're going to get a mixer, that is the mixer to get. Right. I looked at that for a reason. It's a bloody good mixer. But, uh, the question is more like do you need a mixer, uh, with like a few more channels on it. Exactly. Going to change your life. And like we could have done that in the first place, but with, with 16 inputs. Is that enough? Not enough to get your flow state going. Do you know what I mean? How. I only need two or three things to get me in the mood. If this, if there's something cooking, you know, I don't need a million things happening. Just. Just a few good things that get the mind going.

Speaker A: I think that's a workflow though, right?

Speaker B: Maybe. Yeah. I mean, is this a workflow thing?

Speaker A: You know, I mean, I mean, when you're okay, let me ask you this question. When you are.

Speaker B: I will just point you to the fact that Ben. Ben do. Agreed to me and said, just get a patch bay.

Speaker A: Just get a patch. Let's get a patch bay. I mean, that kind of sums up that argument. 1.

Speaker B: Okay, you could fill your mixture mixer apart from two channels and have a patch brief for the final two.

Speaker A: That's true. I could do that if I wanted to.

Speaker B: Yeah, you could. Well, um, the point I'm making is you could do an in between things where some things are permanent but some of your mixer is patched. You know, you don't have to go all dedicated or all patched. You could, you know, do a hybrid.

Speaker A: I have played around with the ideas of like, you know, some of the stuff is bust into a mixer which then goes into another mixer, for example. Um, I have played around with that. They're gonna mix the mix, right? The. The issue I find with that. The issue I find with that is, um, I like, I like the idea of multi tracking. I like multi tracking. I like the idea of not. I've come back recently. I'm working on a new album and I've come back to this. These project files, which in the time was, you know, a four channel mixer, was a stereo two track into like, um, into the Tascam. And I've got. I have got four instruments on that which are now part of one mix. And I can only ever play with that as a whole kind of bus, which, uh, you know, when you're in the nitty gritties of going through a project file that you wrote two years ago, suddenly that snare is really bloody loud.

Speaker B: There's still things you can do with that. I have gone, dude, um, how many,

Speaker C: how many tracks do you need?

Speaker A: Well, I mean, you're talking to a couple of maximalists here. Yeah,

Speaker B: I have used a few before. I'm getting better though, these days, I find.

Speaker C: I think it was a few weeks ago we were talking and you said something about like, actually there's only three bases on this track.

Speaker A: I like, I do. I've got. I've got down to three bases. I got down to three bases. And I, I, that's for me, that's been a journey. It's been a journey. Getting down to three bases.

Speaker C: Starting with the bases.

Speaker A: I love bass. I love bass though. Like sculpting base and playing around with the different types and side chaining and moving things around and it's. It's the bomb, man.

Speaker B: It's the bomb m. It's fun. M.

Speaker A: We're getting a bit sidetracked here. I wanted to bring up another. I wanted to bring up another point, but hey, cress head, don't worry about being late. We're all late. Um, timing is an illusion. There's nowhere other place to be. So.

Speaker C: How many years that work now?

Speaker A: Totally, uh, it works. Um, they just. Look, I tried it. I. I've said it to a couple of people before and they just look at me confused because I'm in that moment. I meant to be professional. But anyway, that's another conversation.

Speaker C: Hey, I mean, as long as you don't get fired, like, hey, all's good, it worked.

Speaker A: It's true, it's true. I, I think, I think another, um, valid trip that I've been on recently, especially when I'm thinking about what I do with my kids at school, is coming, uh, back to that idea of, ah, uh, hands on tactile response, listening to a mix as opposed to seeing the mix moving away from screens and moving into this space of, you know, fader, go up, sound, go loud, that kind of thing. M. And to put it bluntly, and I'm. I think there's a lot of credence in that. I think the especially I can see the benefits of my own workflow. When I moved to a push two and when I moved away from the screen, I. Ableton is there, it's on the screen. But I'm mainly using a push two, which, okay, admittedly is some form of a screen, but uh, I'm hearing the mix and I'm mixing with my ears as opposed to using the screen. I think there's a launch control as well though.

Speaker B: Haven't you.

Speaker A: I do, I do. I have, I have a launch control. I have a ever. I have two launch controls on the launch pad. Yeah.

Speaker B: So you've got 16 channels.

Speaker C: He's not how many Issue Eon. He's not. Man.

Speaker B: How many channels do you get on the push?

Speaker A: Uh, well, I suppose it's infinite really, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah. But, uh, without having to scroll, you get at least eight, don't you?

Speaker A: You get eight? Yeah. You get eight.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you've got another 16 on your launch control. That's quite a lot already. That's sort of under manual control of some kind. Plus the 16 tracks on your, uh, mixer. And you were making an argument about how that's not enough. I believe

Speaker A: it's. I. Okay, all right, I hear you. And on the face of it, uh, my job is to disagree with you this Week. So I hate. I hear you. My uh, my, my pushback on, that is. I've been there, I've done that. I've tried to do this through usb. I've tried to do this through uh, MIDI controllers and I've noticed with Ableton that once you get into multiple uses of MIDI controllers, it gets confused and sometimes it turns on, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it patches correctly, sometimes the MIDI controller works, sometimes it doesn't. And again, not had that problem.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: I don't know. Ah m. I felt some shade being

Speaker C: thrown there just a little bit. I feel it was like a cooling breeze. Just. Ooh, shade.

Speaker A: Could be. Could be. I haven't, to be honest. I haven't tried it since. I haven't tried it with a Mac. I've only ever tried it with my Windows which I've now since moved over to a Mac. Um, but I suppose for a second

Speaker C: and ask a question. So were you on Windows previously?

Speaker A: I used to be on. I used to be on Windows up until about.

Speaker C: Okay. So was the switch from Windows to Mac Worth it?

Speaker A: Yes. 100. Yeah.

Speaker C: I wish you hadn't told me that because now I feel like I gotta go buy a Mac and then re Download all my VSTs and as AU3s

Speaker B: like, come on man, you can use them as VSTs if you want.

Speaker C: Wait, you can use VSTs on Mac?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, you can make it work less.

Speaker B: What you don't have to do is piss around with audio drivers for everything.

Speaker C: It's true. Oh my God.

Speaker A: That was m. It's something we can all agree upon. Windows, uh, is gone. I, I don't particularly appreciate how Windows has gone in recent years and it, it just, it's buggy and it's slow and sluggish whereas Mac just works.

Speaker B: Oh yeah.

Speaker C: They're gonna have a fully AI operating system. That's what, that's their plan.

Speaker B: I mean they're gonna fix that soon. Yeah. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Honestly, uh, I don't know if that's

Speaker C: the phrase we want to throw around call about Windows, but.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, no, I'm thinking, you know, I think Apple look like they want to go the same. They want to go the way of Windows and then. And, and just make everything terrible. Um, but we'll see.

Speaker A: I, I mean I just seen what Survey Channel said here. Ah, I share his ideas. I'm not confident with the direction of Windows. The idea of going and of making and producing on an M6 Mac mini that's kind of beautiful.

Speaker B: I've looked at that as well. Yeah. In the future.

Speaker C: I can't say much. I've been doing a lot with my iPad lately. This thing is great.

Speaker B: Yeah. That was saying that on Instagram. That looked like it was working out quite nicely with a few pedals as well.

Speaker C: Oh yeah, it's, it's a, it's an interesting way to work. Um, I just, I love having a touch screen because I like Curtis was talking about with the Push 2, you have that tactile sensation and yeah, like I'm still looking at a screen but I feel like I have like that real like control, that real um, you know, feedback as opposed to just click, click, click, click, click, click.

Speaker A: You know, I get that and I know what you mean. I put the X32 app on my iPad where you know, you move and fade it here and it beams through the network to the. It's beautiful. You know, you, you move your finger and something happens that again, it's that tactile response. And this is why I come back to it as well. Like. So I think one of the differences I should highlight is that. Okay. While in the production, my production space. Yes. I'm. I might be doing overdubs on one instrument at once and I might be having, you know, I don't need it, I don't need it. But when I'm in that first stage, kind of Anything goes session when you, you literally, you're starting from something new.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And like I say, anything can go. There's something about my brain where it's like, you know, it's like um, Anything Can Happen Thursdays from Big Bang Theory. It's like I want every possibility infinite all at once. So I can kind of, I can work with it.

Speaker B: So let's challenge that then. So you've got a 16 input mixer, which means you can have eight stereo things or more if not all of them are stereo and big. And here a, um, million channels of anything you fancy on your laptop as well or your computer probably controlled in some manual way as well for at least the first, you know, 24, at least channels. That's a lot of things to just kick off a song with. It's a lot, right. I mean you should be able to do plenty with that. So you can have a template in your door and you could have a hand selected bunch of hardware or you could have a patch bay and change it quite easily. It surely that's enough to start off with. You know, unless you're actually Live mixing, you know, lots and lots and lots of things. You shouldn't need a big mixer.

Speaker A: Uh, you're right, you shouldn't. But there is no should. There is only is. You're completely correct. But I mean, you know, you look at, you look at Spongel do his live sets, for example. Lot of the time he's got.

Speaker B: I just. Have you seen him go through all of that? I mean, that, uh, whole sort of take your studio on tour thing is the. That's something you can only do when you're a certain size, really, isn't it? And the idea of having the full stems of every song you've ever produced, all the midi, all the audio, and having it all there ready to play with so that you can live mix it on, uh, a big console is an indulgence that not many of us could really afford, both financially and, um, logistically.

Speaker C: You. You're calling it an indulgence? I'm over here like, oh, you have everything, your fingertips, all at once. Like, I'm having an anxiety attack right now.

Speaker B: What am I doing? Yeah, that too. I mean, it's just like, Jesus Christ. I have made no decisions. I'm just gonna wing it. There's a lot. It's a bravery in it as well. Right.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: The fact that when, when he first started doing stuff as, uh, as hallucinogen, people used to do mixes that way, right. They would, they wouldn't sequence a song, they would have everything running and they would bring things in and, uh, out on the mixing desk and, and, and mix songs that way. And it, it is something that I've toyed with the idea of messing around with recently, just for giggles, but I don't imagine it's going to be, um, a revelation for me as a workflow and something that I'll stick with. I think it's just something I'll do just for fun. Is that something that appeals to you? I prefer a few more decisions myself,

Speaker A: but I feel like there's room to dream. I feel like. Imagine if Spongel had gone. Imagine. Imagine if he had gone. You know what? Taking my, uh. I'm gonna have all these options and I gotta do this and all this paralysis analysis and all that stuff. And, you know, the dude is a genius and the dude is cool and he makes really good music and, you know, he's got the tenacity to take his studio on tour. Yes, it's a bitch. Yes, it's a ball league. Lugging your gear everywhere you go. When I met you in London, uh, Eon for your gig and you had, you had everything in that big square. Uh, mixing the flight case. Yeah. And getting that down the stairs in that little tiny pub in London. That was like, like, I mean we did it and it was amazing and I wouldn't change it for the world. But also. Yeah, uh, that's my point. It's like of course you're going to do it. Of course. Of course you're going to put the effort in.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm looking more at guitar cases now. I think Tom Ragsdale's been, been using like pedal board cases and guitar cases and things like that. Which obviously you just take the top off and there's your stuff already set up. Do uh, like the idea of that. Now that particular case wasn't the best because there was about. It was. It's about this high and I'm using about. It's just extra size to try and get through a doorway. Yeah. Not ideal. It's nice to have it all set up on the lid though so that when you take the top off it's almost ready to go.

Speaker A: It's ah, there, get it. I wouldn't change it. And I think that maybe that's the

Speaker C: fundamental difference we have though. Like yeah, me, I'm constantly over stimulated. I feel like there's too much going on all the time and Curtis is. I need more.

Speaker B: Yeah. I feel I'm with you there. I really feel like I need to see, sort of simplify it down to just what's needed. I, I don't just mean, I mean conceptually as in what's going on, um, how the music is constructed, you know. Only what you need sort of thing is, is what I'm um, trying to sort of push myself towards.

Speaker A: What if you.

Speaker B: Oh dear. What if you need everything? What if you need everything? Genuinely, I can't.

Speaker A: Exhibit B. Uh, I want to bring up just for context as well. Mike uh, asked a question in the chat. He says is the mixer also the audio interface? And yes, that's where I'm coming from as well. Not only is it a mixer, uh, you're not bouncing anything down to a stereo 2 track. You are actually multi tracking everything, everything through Ableton. So if you've got a fancy, if you've got a computer, you can do for example your 16 tracks and you can track them all in a live setting and that can be multi tracked, which means you can go back and edit it later on should you want to. Now you can. Well I could. I'm not arguing that uh, that's not necessary. I would argue that is fundamentally what we do. That ease of.

Speaker B: And that's very cool, but I find I don't use it much. I don't record 24 inputs simultaneously. The most I've recorded at once is probably five. Two instruments and. And a, and a. An effect.

Speaker A: Two instruments in an effect.

Speaker B: Something like that. Actually recording at ah, once. There are sometimes I did used to do mixes where I never actually recorded the center parts at all. They were just run live into the mix and it was all mixed down to two track and we were done. The problem with that was if you ever had to rev, revisit a mix for some reason you hadn't saved your synth patches or uh, something like that. It's just. It's spread out in a lot of different ways. When it's all audio, it's all in one place, it's a lot easier for archiving and stuff like that. I found it a little inconvenient in that regard. But I also did get into recording everything.

Speaker A: M M I like it.

Speaker B: I like the idea for processing. So what I could do is I could have a synth process playing like a massive effects chain on it. It's a hardware scent. If, if it's actually part of the sound I can record it that way. And then I'm using no overhead. It's just a wav file being uh, played back. It's been done already and it was a way of getting stuff that just would not play otherwise. Done.

Speaker C: A lot of hardware since like outboard gear or is most of your stuff like inside the box, like soft sense?

Speaker B: It's usually a mixture of both. And um. And when I'm using external real inputs, I'll always have a limiter and a compressor and a noise gate and an EQ on every channel. And I can use the ones on this on the mixer itself or I can use plugins in Ableton. I tend to do that. So it's all visible in the same place. And again you haven't got the many things that made your track sound the way it is split over different bits of hardware. And everything has to be saved and recalled and all the rest of it, you know. But what I found was I was doing a lot of processing of the inputs even if they weren't recorded on top of software instruments, drum parts and all sorts of stuff like that. So it was beginning to not want to play, getting CPU dropouts and try to render it and stuff. And so one of the things I had to do was actually record Some of the external stuff so that I'm not doing the processing because, like, since sometimes they're just too damn fat out of the box, you know, sometimes you actually have to thin them down a bit. Or sometimes your sound is too dynamic and it will not sit in a mix, you know, and you have to do some. Some, you know, dynamics work on the dynamics of it. And, um, that processing on top of the song you might already be running just could be too much for whatever system you're using. And sometimes you just have to record something so that you can switch that stuff off and save some overhead, which is what I ended up doing. Yeah, Just.

Speaker C: Just wash it with that compressor. Just like, we're talking a 50 to 1 ratio. Just squash Bosch, that thing.

Speaker B: I do a lot of compression. I, uh, do do a lot of compression. I always do a peak limit so that you have a range that you're then going to operate on that isn't too random. So if you. If you limit first so that you know what your top is going to be, then you've got a range that you can then squish a little bit afterwards. Otherwise you'll find the big peaks are firing off your compressor when you don't want it to, and it's not creating something even at the end. You want to shave off the extremes first and then compress the rest of it.

Speaker C: Look at him being all delicate about it, like. No, we're just gonna. Just compress. Compress. Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay. Just brick wall. Put a limiter on the channel. Leave it at that.

Speaker C: I remember when I used to do, um, mixes for other people. I would do, like, a lot of hip hop and it's like. Like, for whatever reason, it's like there has not been a single one. I had to do that. I did not have to compress the crap out of everyone's vocals. I don't know what it is about rappers. It's like they don't maintain a consistent volume at all.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And you cannot get a level on it. I mean, it's either, you know, beating you in the face or you can't hear what they're saying, you know, and you want it there consistently.

Speaker C: Compression and reverb, that's all you need. Just make it work.

Speaker A: That'd be. I mean, I'd be curious to do. I'd be curious to do a deep dive, uh, on how we use compression in that regard. Just the different ways in which it's done. I think compression is one of those things that maintains its sense of mysticism because so many people use it in so many different ways. And we, again, live in that influencer world where there's apparently a right way to do something. It would be really cool to do a community, kind of like, hey, this is how I use it and this is what I do with it. Um, yeah, I think that was. I would help.

Speaker C: Compression is basically voodoo to me. Like, just share. Share your spells, share your configuration. How do you do it exactly?

Speaker A: I'll put it in the docket. I'll put it in the docket. Uh, I want to do it. I want to do a deep dive on FM synthesis next time. Uh.

Speaker C: Oh, you get yourself a DX7.

Speaker A: No, uh, Mike. Stemming from Mike's, uh, light. Well, when Mike came on the show a couple of weeks ago, he's got this FM pivot plugin. I'm working on getting a couple of licenses. And the idea is that, uh, we sit down and we go through this FM synthesis and kind of demystify it and kind of go through it. It'd be really. I think that'd be really cool. It's FM synthesis as well. It can kind of be a bit elitist and a little bit mystical in that. In that regard. So I want to bring that back to the. Back to the people, so to speak.

Speaker B: It'll be interesting.

Speaker C: I don't play around with FM synthesis all that much, so probably be good to learn more about that.

Speaker A: It's all about learning. It's all about learning. And this is why I maintain I need more. A bigger mixer, because more stuff plugged in is more learning.

Speaker C: You know what? Eon can keep arguing. I'm gonna be like, you know what? Screw it. Just get it, man. Yolo ball out.

Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, thank you, Lars.

Speaker B: I'll be the one telling someone not to get a big mixer. I've had to. I actually. I've actually considered adding the, um, another presonus mixer to that, but the digital board with the faders. So that. That could be a stage box for that. And I'd have a million inputs and faders as well.

Speaker A: That's beautiful.

Speaker B: I, uh, only need about a grand to do that. Uh, but that's just. I probably wouldn't use it. It's the problem.

Speaker A: I. I don't think it's about necessarily using them all. I think it's just having the ability there. It's like, okay, so I've got two. I think. I think back to my theater. I've got two S16 boxes, uh, in the theater, one of which One of which is full, in fairness. And that's just. That's all the. Kind of like the wireless microphones, right. And that sits in the band pit. Right. And I've got one which is floating on a. On a rack system which kind of. It's never, it's never full, but regardless, it's cable in a way that. So wherever I am in the theater, I can get a nice. I can get a nice connection without, um, having to trail XLR cables everywhere. And it's neat and it's tidy. And I'm not sure what my point was. Maybe that's. Maybe that's how robust it is, but

Speaker C: eat it in the theater. So I need it at home too. I got to know what I'm working on.

Speaker B: There was this time when, uh, back in the 30s, I think it was. And you know, we used to do a lot of drugs at the time. What was that saying? Well, that was a compelling argument there, mate. You got me.

Speaker A: I think it comes down to this idea of just having it at your fingertips and having the ability just to have the options so that you've got a blank canvas to you for. To do whatever you want to do on.

Speaker B: I can pretend not to understand all night, but, I mean, I kind of do. Uh, and, you know, my, My studio's kind of set up that way. I've got pretty much most of my gear plugged into my Mac behind me and I can just. All the modules connected into a modular mixer which goes into the main mixer. Uh, all the other stuff is plugged into the main mixer and it all goes in into my Mac, all separate channels, 32 inputs over Ethernet into my Mac and that's enough for me. And that does quite well. So, yeah, if I want to move from one device to another device that has to unplug and repatch anything and it is convenient. Um, it's kind of expensive to have that convenience. And I don't know that it's great value for money, but it is nice to have it. Yeah, it's true. But that's. But even then, like, I have, yeah, I've run out of ports now. It's full at the moment. If I get another bit of gear, there's nowhere to connect it. I'm not going to get a bigger mix. I might get a patch pay, though.

Speaker A: Patchpay might be the way to go. To answer your question, Bendu, before we go across to, uh, the community chat for the week, uh, I would like to have. I've got. I've got a 12 input? Well, 10 input. Because the model 12 is a 10 input. It's not a 12 input. Um, but, I mean, I have. What. I have about 15, 16 boxes right now, you know, plus my guitars and, you know, my basses, etcetera, And I'm trying to build a drum kit. So that's a whole nother thing.

Speaker C: Wait a second, you. Is this why you're getting the mixer? Because you're building the drum kit and you're like, I'm going to need the mixer for all the drum kit?

Speaker A: I'm not specifically, but I'm kind of getting into the space now, where. Because, like I say, I've got the studio space, which is mine, and I've kind of dedicated my life to it. Why am I holding back? Why am I not just going pedal to the metal, balls to the floor, just kind of go,

Speaker C: right, ball out?

Speaker A: That's where I'm coming from. Um, it's an academic exercise. Right? It's an academic exercise. Um, but I want to get across to the community track before we go on. Too late. Um, and I just wanted to say, I mean, Lars, you came in, uh, as an impartial adjudicator here. Have I convinced you?

Speaker C: Here's the thing. Um, told me the price of it, and it's just like, oh, man. Yeah, the convenience sounds really nice in my brain. I was like, is that convenience worth $860? Is it worth it?

Speaker A: Sounds very tech, bro, if you ask me.

Speaker C: Uh. Oh, no, let's not logic here. You know, that doesn't make any sense. It's just, spend the money, fair play.

Speaker A: Fair play.

Speaker C: You're not. You're not taking this out on credit, are you?

Speaker A: What's. Uh, maybe crypto.

Speaker C: You almost had me. You almost had me.

Speaker A: I like what Bendu's saying. Bendu's saying, get the 32. Uh, I like what Bendy's saying. I like bending.

Speaker B: Yeah, he might have qualified that with these other comments or just get on about all that other, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Important context stuff.

Speaker C: Context. Are you trying to record a live band?

Speaker A: Um, because you might. I like. I like the idea. Right. I. I have done client work here before. I have worked with clients, small clients, you know, singular instruments, singer songwriters. It would be cool to get banned in here. I'm in a really fortunate position in the city. You never know. You never know what the studio can take. That's. I suppose that's what. I'm coming through. I'm dreaming. I'm in a space where I'm dreaming. I'M like, what else is possible? You know, what could I do? You know, what could I create? What could I achieve? And I don't want to be hampered by the idea of what should and shouldn't be.

Speaker C: Well, I mean, if you're gonna record a live band, then a bigger mixer would probably be a necessity.

Speaker A: But like that word, necessity. Yeah, I need it.

Speaker C: Are you gonna record a live band?

Speaker A: Well, you never know, right? It's like, it's like, well, it's like, okay, it's like, what's that?

Speaker C: Wow. The land of posse abilities.

Speaker A: Yeah, you got a dream, man. You got a dream, you know, and I don't want to be caught short. Um, but hey, come on. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'm. I'm thinking about it. And this is partly academic and it's partly to put the idea of gear acquisition syndrome into kind of a tangible conversation. I would like to know what people think because we're just three dudes with

Speaker B: microphones with all our facetious comments. What we've said is, you know, you need to take a cold, hard look at what it would give you. Um, whether or not the benefit is there and whether or not you, you know, if it offers a new workflow or something like that. Is it even a workflow that, um, that is going to benefit you and that you're going to stick with? Is there a way to try it without the initial, without committing as well? Can you soften the blow by selling what you already have and, you know, replacing it with something else as well? You know, consideration?

Speaker C: That one. Did you see it? Can you sell something you already have?

Speaker B: M. Yes.

Speaker A: How. How would I then prove to people if I don't have a wall of gear? How do people know I'm worthy?

Speaker C: Are you even an electronic musician if you don't have 80 cents on a rack with a mixer?

Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. More gear equals better producer. We all know this. We all know this.

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, you need a couple of, um, cacti as well and a top down camera.

Speaker A: Yes, it's true, it's true, it's true.

Speaker C: Just go with the GoPro. Just strap it to your forehead

Speaker B: so make sure you don't throw it all on a mixer and save some for cacti and succulents. Yeah, uh, we shall see.

Speaker A: I'd like to know what people think listening back, uh, watching back. Let me know what you think or let us know what you reckon because we're just three dudes with a microphone. Um, I'm going to Put the QR code for the discord here. Uh, which will only cut off Elon Lake today, which is um, different to normal. Normally cuts off last. But that's kind of. I like that. It's kind of cute.

Speaker B: I'm hiding, just hiding there.

Speaker A: Okay. All right, let's keep it. I, I want to keep, I, I'd like to keep the conversation going there. It'd be interesting to see where people are at. Um, this is a slightly academic, uh, conversation but it's also, you know, one. Everyone gets through these uh, stages at some point in their existence. So yeah, go and have a look

Speaker B: and then finally don't forget the details. As Bendu said in the chat, more inputs means more cables and they can be expensive and they are doubt spoken like a true modular guy, but that's the truth.

Speaker A: It's true, that's true.

Speaker B: The amount you can spend on cables is horrific.

Speaker A: Mhm. And there's always room for more. Yeah, there's always room for more. Um, so yeah, thank you for everyone for commenting, getting on where you're at. I like the ip. I like the idea of uh, Survey Channel. He said it a while back. The idea of just him gigging with an SP404 also, that is quite nice. That's quite lovely. And now that Lars has got a stand up stand working with your iPad. That's good.

Speaker C: Yeah, I was, I, I was telling sun, uh, Warper about it too. But it's. I like I've been watching his videos and I've noticed this like because he had the same thing, he had a bunch of different synths like all over the place. Right. Like he had just racks of scents and all running a patch. But, and I'm watching his videos lately, it's like he's pretty much just sticking to like the EP133, the uh, the SP404, you know, know. And his guitar like it's pretty much just like three pieces and it's like he's getting really good results. So I mean, I just have to ask again, are you sure you need 24 inputs?

Speaker A: No, I need 32. But I'm willing to compromise.

Speaker B: Yeah, I find that the entire case just unravels. I think I'd rather focus more on less, if you see what I mean. Kind of like Sun W does in his videos.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's true, it's true. Speaking of which.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: The man released an ep, uh, into it.

Speaker B: Oh, Signal.

Speaker C: It's a wonderful little piece.

Speaker A: Yes. You did a wonderful review on Fringe of the Sounds Uh, Lars, tell us about. Tell us your thoughts. Live on air.

Speaker C: So I like, you know, when he. When I first started following him, a lot of his stuff was very ambient. He had some down tempo there. But I've noticed, like, with the 404, like, his little minimal setup there, he is, like, really doing a good job at, like, capturing that, like, lo fi kind of boom bap sound while like, keeping a lot of, like, the elements that he had from, like, his earlier ambient stuff in there as well. Like, the end, the album is like. It's short. Like, it's a short little ep, but it's, um. It's basically, like, sandwiched on both ends with, like, an ambient track here and an ambient track there. You know, the first one's real short, and it kind of like gives you a little misdirection. It's like, oh, wow, we're getting an ambient album. And then all of a sudden it's like, it just. It just ends so suddenly, and it's almost jarring. And then it kind of like comes back in and then you hit with the beat and it's like. It's a real. It's a real nice time.

Speaker A: I would agree with that. Um, have you listened to it yet? Eon?

Speaker B: I had a quick listen, yeah. And. And that feels like. Yeah, it feels like it's done. What Lars has said that with staying true to. To some of the things that he's always been like, but at the same time expanding to fill up more space in other ways as well. It's, um. It feels like it's more focused to me. Not that you could accuse any of his back catalog as being not focused, but, you know, you only know, you know, the only person who can do better is him. You know, do you know what I mean at this stuff? And. And it feels like, you know, everything is still a step forward and that he's able to retain all the good of everything that he's done, but then start, you know, moving beyond that as well and including other stuff, kind of the sort of thing I would like to do.

Speaker A: So I tell you what, with that beautiful, beautiful, uh, kind of run up, uh, let's have a listen. Um, I. I think I've chosen Ghost Petals on this particular occasion just because I think it's. I think it's my favorite out of the whole ep. It's a beautifully be. The Ghost Petals speaks me. I love the name as well. Ghost Petals. Cool. So I'm going to get us out of here, and we're going to have A listen to this. Um, I'm going to go from there.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Is that coming through?

Speaker C: Um,

Speaker A: Very nice. There we go. Let's bring that back into the. Bring that back into existence. I'm going to bring Lars's mic back up. Uh, beautiful.

Speaker C: Lovely. Wait, when I turn it off, is it not actually turning off?

Speaker A: No.

Speaker C: So you can still hear me?

Speaker A: It's. Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay. I'm not buying stuff on TEMU anymore. This is bull crap. It's just on.

Speaker A: She's been on the whole time. I'm glad that Sasha's in the room though. It's good though. I'm glad that Sasha's in the room though. It's nice.

Speaker C: Oh yeah. Um, she's quite a little doggy.

Speaker A: It's good. Um, but yeah, that was ah, Ghost Petals by some warper in his new ep Signal Fragments. I'm gonna put the whole EP link. It is already in the description below. Um, but also I'm going to put it in the chat for people to have a listen to. It's a great, it's great EP out there. Um, Audio Nautic Records, which is a good fun place to be. You, uh, can get it in physical, um, and if you get it buy it in physical, you also get a little extra. We're doing, running this little extra freebie. This little surprise freebie that you'll get in the post with it. So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: What's the freebie?

Speaker A: Well, if I told you one, it's a surprise. It's a surprise freebie.

Speaker C: Oh my gosh. You are not cereal boxing me right now, are you?

Speaker A: Just a little bit. Salute Crate man. Salute Crate. You never know.

Speaker C: Wow, wow, wow. Yeah.

Speaker A: Ah. So thank you. So, yeah, we'll have more next.

Speaker B: Can I just say how, how amazingly well the bass and the drums and the keys sat together in that mix. I think it's the common processing that he's doing with I'm assuming some 404 effects, but I can't remember the last time I'd heard something gel together that well in the, in, in the low mid and low end like that. Uh, it just sounded really good and enjoyed it. It's toy, toy, toy, toy girl.

Speaker A: Exactly like a tiger. It's cool. I'd love to get, I'd love to get him on so he can talk through his process to see under the hood. Because it is, it's a beautiful consistency throughout the whole EP and like consistently throughout all his work. This is definitely an evolution of that. But you know, there's always. The mixes are Always tight and the mixes are always well put together and very intentional. I'd love to be able to see, uh, what's going on there. Cool. Do we have to do more? Because, I mean, there's plenty of music to come through. You know, people, um, are always releasing. It's always a good thing. We just had bandcamp. Friday was the time to, you know, put stuff out there. I've got a code from Lars that I need to redeem and pay attention to, which is my homework for the week.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that.

Speaker C: That comes out on the 11th.

Speaker A: Ah, September 11th.

Speaker C: Yes. A very famous day that nothing ever happened on.

Speaker A: Nothing happened.

Speaker B: Even I might remember that.

Speaker A: Just normal day. Nothing went on. So we'll see. Um, maybe we'll take a listen to that next week. Next week we have a demo week. If I remember my scheduling. Um, not sure whether to look at the Reason, the. The reason, uh, bundle or look at the Steinberg bundle. Maybe people can let me know what they prefer to see. Um, both Steinberg have really. Or Steinberg has just released a, uh, a load of their vintage or kind of like OG, um, VSTs completely for free, some of their really early stuff. And also Reason have put their rack now for free. Cross daw, which both are really cool. We only got. We've only got time to look at one. So maybe people can let us know in the comments or in this discord what they think and what they prefer to see. But eon, you were very excited by the idea of, uh, Steinberg.

Speaker B: Just nostalgia. I used to use Cubase back in the day and some of those early plugins would be interested to hear them again now and actually see what I could do with them. Now I know what a synthesizer does and all the different types synthesis and how they work. I could probably get a much better sounds out of them. Although to be honest, presets were quite good as I remember. I just wonder how grainy in 16 bit they might sound. Because I'm under the impression that presets have come a long way. I guess we'll find out.

Speaker A: All right, well, I have them ready down and I have them downloaded. I've been messing around with them while I should have been in a meeting this afternoon. Um, so we shall see. We shall see. Anyway, for now, uh, we're gonna drop. Thank you everyone for being here. Thank you for. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Uh, we'll be back next week. Like I say, demo week. Um, Lars, you will probably stay sitting in that, ah, seat for the whole week and wait for us now.

Speaker C: As long as it's warm enough to sit out here, I'll be out here.

Speaker A: Well, I mean, with climate change going the way it is, I think you'll be there for a while.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Bright future for you.

Speaker C: Yay. Oh, yeah. You moved to Colorado, you get Snow, right? Like 10 years ago.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: The whole skiing culture is declining quickly. Um, I don't want to talk about

Speaker C: lost money on that last year.

Speaker A: Well, we'll leave it there then.

Speaker C: There's no snow

Speaker A: increasingly here as well. Right? Love to you all, gentlemen. Thank you. It's lovely to see you. Uh, any final words from either of you before I push the big gray button?

Speaker C: Do not buy your microphones on Teemu. I probably didn't need to say that to anyone. I'm probably the only one who was like, yeah, sure, why not? And now I know why not.

Speaker A: It's good life advice. Eon.

Speaker B: No, I can't top that. Endless Intense.

Speaker A: I like it. We'll be back next week. Much love to you all, uh, seeing. See you down the line. Much.