Payroll Perspectives - Rebecca Fletcher

Shawnee: Foreign. Hi Rebecca, how you going?

Rebecca Fletcher: Not bad, Shawnee. How are you?

Shawnee: Very good. Very excited to complete this episode with you. Um, so just wanted to start it off with, you know, if you can briefly introduce yourself and where you work at the moment.

Rebecca Fletcher: So my name is Rebecca. I am, um, currently working at Alfred Health at the Alfred Hospital. Um, my job title there is a little bit of a strange one. It is Employee Connect Manager or manager of Employee Connect, which is a fun new team that the Alfred have introduced in the last couple of months.

Shawnee: Can you tell me a little bit about how that that team's split up and sort of how it's a bit different to a sort of payroll manager position?

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah, of course. Given the sheer volume of staff at uh, Alfred Health, as you can imagine, it's in excess of 14,000 at the moment, paid and unpaid. Um, you know, it's a lot for one team to take on the whole payroll function. So what Alfred Health have done is they've actually split that functionality into two different teams. So we have our payroll processing team that are your core processing ops team. They run the pay runs every week or every fortnight. They do all the calculations not as employee facing. And then the employee connect team do all of the sort of admin side of payroll. So we do all the onboarding, all of the variations, all contract amendments that need to be plugged into our HRIS system. We do a lot of system based changes. We also take inbound employee inquiries via phone and like a ticketing system. So not necessarily. Are my team payroll backgrounded, guys? Uh, you know, we, we do have a couple. However, for the majority, it is more of an eclectic mix. Uh, and I am, you know, training them up to get a little bit more payroll experience for the benefit of our team.

Shawnee: Yeah, perfect. Now it's a very interesting role and I do find those really large organizations, they need more support and segregation between those duties. So it's, it's really exciting sort of shift for you because I know, you know, given your whole career in leadership so far, you know, you started off obviously payroll, off site payroll, uh, manager. Then you did a sort of HR manager role as well. And um, so tell us a little bit about your career so far in leadership and your perspective, you know, on payroll now that you've had that experience.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah, sure. So, I mean, as any person in payroll will say, they fell into it or it was an accident. I'm no different. I've been in, I've been into the payroll space for the better part of 20 years now. And I did work my way up from being a payroll officer into a management role for the last sort of five, six years. Um, ah, and then took a bit of a sidestep into a HR manager role for a company that I'd worked for previously as a payroll officer. So that was a really good insight into seeing the other side. You know, generally speaking, payroll and HR at loggerheads most of the time still trying to get the same outcome. Uh, you know, both sides have their own focus. Um, so you know that, that can become quite tricky in a day to day setting, needing to get, you know, bits and pieces done. Now having work on both sides, I definitely have a greater appreciation for what HR get done. Um, but it also meant that someone that had been in payroll, I did have a lot more patience and understanding of what needs to happen on the payroll side. So I did find that stepping into that HR manager role with all the experience I have in payroll did lend itself to a much nicer relationship between HR and payroll at that organization. Even now being at the Alfred, my role, I sort of have one, um, foot in the payroll area. One foot in the HR area, albeit my team is in the payroll services department under finance. Um, we work very, very closely with hr. You know, we see hundreds of contracts a week. And having my team know what to look out for, what kind of doesn't look right, and what to question HR on, it's a huge, huge learning piece for my team given that they don't really have HR or payroll backgrounds. And the people that I do have that do have a payroll background definitely, you know, are benefiting uh, from that HR pace because it is helping them with their payroll knowledge. So you know, it works quite well. But having had that HR management role prior to coming to the Alfred, it's much the reason why I'm in this role that I do have both of those sides of experience. So it has been very, very helpful with my transition into a role that is non existent in pretty much any other organization. Yeah. So, um, you know, the majority of my leadership, uh, career was actually right smack bang in the middle of COVID So that was very interesting to deal with. I hadn't had, you know, 10 years of experience in leadership prior to Covid and sort of walking into that leadership role with the biggest team that I'd had and not having met them for three months only via, you know, Zoom or Skype or teams was really tricky. You know, I had to work out how I could still get m that uh, leadership and that management when I'd never really met my team before, you know, that that is definitely something that I now very much appreciate that I was able to get through and came through it quite well in the end. Now that we are uh, in a time where we are working from home that little bit more, even in the payroll space, it does make it a lot easier for me to be able to do what I need to do while I'm not in the office or if my team is not in the office. You know, that was something that I didn't think that I was ever going to need to do. And here we are going in from, from that into a HR management role where I was then completely in the office 100% of the time. It did throw me a little bit. And there is quite a difference between payroll management and HR management. You know, payroll for the most part you kind of know what's going to happen on a day to day basis with a little bit of um, you know, here and there have um, with hr you have no idea what you're going to get on that any given day you could be dealing with probations that aren't being met or in manufacturing fights. So there is quite a difference. You know, the, the actual core HR part of, you know, writing contracts and onboarding employees is such a small piece, you know. And taking that experience into my current role where it is that more contract based, onboarding based knowledge, having both in this role has been such help to myself but also to my team. But it's also helped me create a of lot, a lot of efficiencies for my team that haven't had the experience that I've had or that a lot of other payroll people have had or HR officers because we are in that sort of weird uh, middle ground, you know, leading people that haven't had any experience in that is quite different.

Shawnee: Uh, you mentioned you sort of were doing your first leadership role during COVID times and then you also have done the HR management piece where you're fully on site now you've got a sort of large employee connect team. Can you give us a little bit of insights into your leadership style and what you think sort of works best overall?

Rebecca Fletcher: Uh, so my leadership style is fairly hands off. I would never want to think of myself as a micromanager because generally speaking I don't like to be micromanaged. However, it really depends on your team member. They all require different things. You know, some need a little bit more assistance than others. Some you can pretty much be completely hands off and just do little check ins here and there and others need that, you know, far more intense. Hand holding really does also depend on, you know, are, uh, they working from home a lot of the time? Are they in the office? You know, that working from home piece can get quite tricky because, you know, you're relying on them to be able to get done what you need to get done on a day to day basis, but also be able to still, you know, give you a call and say, hey, I'm really stuck on this. Being able to get that leadership and management virtually is definitely a learned skill. It's not something that, you know, you can just pick up and run with. It does take a little bit of effort, you know, given the fact that when I first started in leadership, it was office based. Yeah, not for a great deal of time, but long enough for me to have started to, you know, really get myself comfy in that kind of role.

Shawnee: Yeah.

Rebecca Fletcher: Is working from home in payroll wasn't really a thing before COVID No, it definitely wasn't. Just, you know, you know, there was one or two days here and there that I'd worked from home for, you know, whatever reason, but I was kind of standalone way back then. And then to jump into Covid and all bets are off. Uh, I think everyone had this same feeling. I don't think this is just localized to myself or payroll. It was definitely something that had to be learned, but had to be learned fairly quickly. Still needed to be able to pay people on time. You know, that's, that's primary goal when you're in payroll. Um, that's, that's a bigger piece. It, it really, it really does make you have to shift your, your management style and your leadership style because being that virtual working, well, being in that virtual working space, you know, I think at some point I was probably way too hands off and then had to then work out, oh, how far do I need to go? Am I now too hands on? Am I getting into that micromanagement piece? Really? It really did take a lot of balance and I think that's now helped me even more so in a face to face setting.

Shawnee: Yeah, I think everyone learned a lot through Covid. But I think the interesting thing that you said and what I took from that was that, uh, you know, the responsibility of management and of the team has shifted a little bit in the sense of your team members have more responsibility to, you know, reach out to you when they need help and to keep that communication piece high because you and a lot of managers don't want to sort of lead into that micromanaging sort of style. Um, which means you do rely and trust your team to come to you with those issues. And having payroll so time sensitive, that's where you can see those issues popping up is when someone's reluctant to or really wants to try and nut through something themselves, which may take a big chunk of time and slow the process down. It's not like when you're in the office and you can just look over and say, hey, can you just confirm this? What's your insights into that? Can you check this? It's really, you know, you have to go out of your way to reach out to someone and whether they're available or communicating sort of quickly. I think that's where a lot of managers sort of see that struggle with the virtual, I suppose management.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah, uh, completely agreed. Completely agreed.

Shawnee: Perfect. So look, the next question was just around what you look for when you're hiring for your team. Obviously at the moment it's the employee connect team. So they're not specifically payroll orientated or you know, payroll background, I suppose. So what is it specifically that you're looking for?

Rebecca Fletcher: So you, uh, know, in my current role and current team, the team is less than five months old. I've been in my role for just over four months. So it is a bit of a learning curve at the moment. I'm sort of doubling with a few different types of backgrounds. Um, and I, I do think that having that little bit of payroll knowledge, um, is the best fit at the moment. Um, albeit the team members that I've got that have had no payroll experience are picking up exactly what I need them to pick up. Um, just having that little bit of peril knowledge means that there's a lot of things that I then to on teach. Um, you know, there's a lot of legislation and you know, we deal with I think 13 different agreements at the moment. So it's high volume and it's public health. So they're very, very intricate. Having someone with that payroll background can pick up those things just a little bit quicker. You know, it's one less thing that, that I need to explain however, as a manager, and this is why I think I became a manager in the first place, was because I love to teach the knowledge that I have in payroll. I'm very, very passionate about payroll and I really do enjoy uh, giving that knowledge to other people. So to be honest, at the moment my biggest one is cultural fit. And I think for most roles that's what it comes down to. Even when I'm hiring for a payroll person, yes, they need to have a few technical skills when it comes to payroll, depending on the role that I'm m actually recruiting for. Um, however, it really doesn't come down to cultural fit. The team need to be cohesive and, you know, you're with the work team more than you're at home in waking hours. So team get along is, you know, probably the biggest success of a team.

Shawnee: I think I have to agree with you. Like, I think I've recently done sort of a, uh, poll on LinkedIn regarding sort of what keeps people around in a team. And the biggest thing was that sort of culture and leadership. What's in the business currently, how they're supported, the team members that they work with. So that really shone through with me that, you know, it is really the people that you work with, you know, you spend eight or more hours there a day, m more than your family in waking hours. So what would your advice be to senior parallel professionals looking to step up into leadership?

Rebecca Fletcher: My advice would be to have a very, very good think about is this for you? You know, part of my job description isn't just being a manager and coming in and telling people what to do every day. Um, you know, there is far more to it. And anyone that's a people leader, uh, or a hiring manager, and I think given my payroll background, that's one of my things that, you know, I really do try and drum into department heads or anyone that has to sign off on timesheets. That's a part of your role. You know, the people in your team are part of your role. So having great technical skills and being an amazing payroll officer, uh, doesn't always lend itself to someone being the right fit for a manager really is something that you do need to be very passionate about and, um, know what you're sort of getting yourself into. It's not, you know, peaches and cream every day. You take on the weight of your entire team. And if someone doesn't get paid properly or on time, that sits with you, not, not the payroll officer. So it is, it's a lot of work. You know, the amount of additional hours that I've done through my management career, I would love to calculate.

Shawnee: Right.

Rebecca Fletcher: But I do it because I love doing what I do. And I think that that's where it lies. You know, progressing for the sake of progressing is probably not the best way to go about it. Loving what you do and knowing why you want to step into that next role or into that, you Know, step up role, uh, really has to be thought about before you do that.

Shawnee: Yeah, my managers previously have all said very similar things to me. You know, obviously that's kind of just what people have in their mind. You know, I do this role, then I will sort of become a senior, then I'll become a leader, then I'll become a manager. But there are multiple ways to have success in this discipline. And you really do need to assess whether it's right move for you and whether uh, it's something that's actually going to bring you joy long term because yes, a lot of people enjoy that. Teaching, mentoring and being able to help grow and develop team members and things like that. But may struggle with the realities that uh, it. You take on a lot of responsibility in regards to how the team is performing business wide, if anyone doesn't get paid. But as well as that, you know, no one likes having performance conversations. But at the end of the day you need to be aware that might be part of the role if you're working with a sort of medium to large team, any size team really, but you know, more so in a medium to large team where there may be sort of more turnover and things like that as well.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah, completely agreed. Yeah, those, those difficult conversations are ah, really tricky to navigate. They're not fun. Um, it's not something as a manager that I enjoy doing at all. However, it is a part of my role. You have to take the good with the bad sometimes and for me the good bar outweighs the bad. However, you know, as you said before, you really have to think about if that path is for you, the extra responsibility.

Shawnee: Yeah, there's plenty of different avenues to go down. Whether you're going to be more of a payroll analyst, you're going to do some kind of consulting projects, implementations, and they can all yield equivalent high salaries that a payroll manager position might. Um, so yeah, thank you for bringing that up.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah.

Shawnee: So we'll just go with our last question. What has been the biggest change or challenge in the last sort of two years in payroll that you, that you have seen?

Rebecca Fletcher: Look, the legislation's changing quite rapidly at the moment and I think that's probably the biggest change that we've seen so far for the better. I really do think that a lot of the anti wage theft legislation that's coming in is only going to benefit employees and organizations. You know, you don't want to be on the receiving end of a fine or you know, knowing that you've knowingly incorrectly paid somebody just not what we're here to do. So having that type of legislation come in and force organizations to do the right thing and not be trying to force payroll officers or hr, uh, staff to do the wrong thing, I think is a great benefit to our industry.

Shawnee: Yeah, perfect.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah. And I mean, look, I've been in peril, like I said, for the better part of 20 years and I've been asked numerous times to do things that did not sit morally right with me, so I didn't do them. Um, now with this legislation, we've got that to use.

Shawnee: No, I agree. I think that all of this new legislation and changes has really sparked a lot of debate and I think there's a lot more conversations happening in payroll about how important it is, you know, with, you know, business leaders, owners, CFOs, you know, people that may or may not have a full understanding of what they're asking for and how it's not possibly right. Um, you know, having that to sort of lean on and say, look, this is my responsibility and, um, I'm not breaching these boundaries, I suppose.

Rebecca Fletcher: Yeah, it does give us something to sort of lean back on and go, wow, you know what? We actually can't do that because it's listed here, here and here. Would you like to get a fine of this, this and this? I think the only other change that I've really noticed lately is just more education for payroll officers to undertake. So the amount of courses that are coming out, uh, I think is a great benefit to the industry. Because what I'm hoping is that the more people that we do have educated, the less likely it is that we're breaching, uh, anti wage theft legislation. So I'm hoping that that really helps to sort of knock that on the head a little bit. You know, having people that knowledgeable and armed with, um, all of that information surely is only going to give us a better result. Unless likely to, you know, commit wage theft accidentally or on purpose.

Shawnee: Definitely. And I really do think that the market overall has really stepped up and, and sort of looked personally how they want to develop their career and payroll and what they want to do. Obviously not all organizations will fund certain classes, courses and upskilling, but there has been plenty of people in my network that have sort of taken upon themselves to do these things and make sure that they're doing the right thing in payroll and for their organization. So I think it's really exciting that people are taking it seriously and take that responsibility on themselves.

Rebecca Fletcher: Completely agree.

Shawnee: Perfect. Awesome. Well, look, uh, that will wrap up the second episode of the Payroll Perspectives podcast. Thank you so much, Rebecca, for, uh, coming. Really appreciate your insights, and it was really lovely chatting with you.

Rebecca Fletcher: No problem. Thanks for having me. Sa.