Payroll Perspectives - Kate Murnig

Sharni Smith: Hi, Kate, how you going?

Kate May: Good morning, Sharni. I'm good, thank you. How are you?

Sharni Smith: Yeah, very well. For anyone that doesn't know, I am Shaunie Smith from Atlas Partners. So I'm a recruitment consultant that specialises in the area of payroll and transactional finance. Kate, would you do a quick introduction for us?

Kate May: Certainly. I'm Kate May. I work with a group called Pan Pacific Group. We're a hotel branch. I'm the payroll manager there and I've been in the payroll industry for, um, give or take about 11 years.

Sharni Smith: Perfect. Look, today we're actually kicking off our, ah, payroll Perspective series. Look, it's something that we really want to be able to, uh, add value to the payroll market and for those also who might be decision makers and seniors within finance and HR that also can relate and maybe learn something from this series as well. So we're going to start off with a few questions just to get to know Kate a little bit more and her journey in payroll.

Kate May: Awesome.

Sharni Smith: Perfect. So first question is an easy one. We're going to start off with how you actually got into payroll.

Kate May: Um, I got into payroll purely by accident on the suggestion of a colleague. I started my work life in administration. Didn't really know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So everyone needs a receptionist. A company I was working for, Uh, I made a friend who was a payroll officer. She commented on my ability of being able to keep track of times and good relationship building skills, being very process and ops driven and made the suggestion at the time if I ever wanted to change out of admin, that payroll would be a good choice for me. A couple of years later I was a bit sick of admin and made the decision to give it a try. I thought, I'll give it five years if I'm going to be a success. I'll know in the first 12 months. If, uh, I don't like it, well then it's just a trial. Best decision I ever made in my life. For something that was just purely on a whim and purely by accident. It so much caters to every facet of my personality. Yeah, I didn't lose any of the skillset that I had in admin that I had worked hard to develop. So people building, sorry, people relationship building, being able to talk on the phone, being able to handle any number of inquiries and handle it politely and diplomatically. Um, and it's something, yeah, payroll is a very interesting in between of human resources and finance and that's really what appealed to me. It appealed That I could deal with numbers. It was nice and simplistic and very data driven, but I wasn't losing the skill set that I already had. So for me it was the perfect move. Been there ever since.

Sharni Smith: That's so awesome to hear again. This is my first time hearing all this. We're doing this on the fly today. No, honestly, it's surprising to me how many people kind of fall into payroll. And actually I suppose we're kind of at that point now where that's actually changing a little bit and people are actually doing this on purpose.

Kate May: Yeah. Which is exciting. It's an industry that is very much growing and becoming an industry or a department unto itself. Payroll for from time immorium has been sort of a subsection of either Human Relations, human Resources or finance and not actually been a department or a known ability on its own. And there's so many courses that are now becoming available to do it as a qualification. And it's very exciting to see where the industry is going.

Sharni Smith: No, I totally agree with you there. And it's something that years ago when I first started specializing in payroll recruitment, there wasn't many, if at all, qualifications. And now we have, you know, APA and taps, you know, that sort of help and have created some, some courses there and even universities now doing some degrees. So it's really exciting time to be in payroll. Yeah. And I agree with you there. Definitely a topic for us to talk about at some point in regarding that. Where should payroll sit in that hr Finance, you know, when will it become its own kind of stuff, siloed function where they're not reporting to either. It's very interesting question that we definitely want to touch on at some point. Moving on to question two. Uh, you know, this question stemmed from I suppose, the amount of exposure payroll's been getting in the news. And I suppose people have learned a lot more about payroll than they have in the last few years. But I suppose what do you wish people knew about the payroll industry that would help you and the team?

Kate May: It's not nearly as simple as we make it look. There are so many facets of the payroll function that are reliant not just on you being able to do your job well, but on marrying up with all the other departments and them understanding that they need to do their part, you need to do yours, and it's a team effort. It's not just payroll doing their part. Predominantly we are doing our part and that's, that's what we're paid to do. We're paid to pay everybody and to be as accurate as we can in doing that, we need to rely on the other departments, the other heads, our, uh, direct boss, having our back. So if there's timesheets or if there's questions on things that you need to ask during your process, so during the two or three days that you're doing your processing, just them being aware that at, at any moment we may need to clarify something with you. And if we can't clarify that and we can't clear that question up, then it sort of delays the process a little bit. So it's a very time sensitive sort of job and very, uh, you're reliant on other people doing their part. So it's pretty much like anything if you can just work together and people can understand your perspective and you understand theirs. It's something that I say to my heads of departments all the time. I understand you're busy, I know you've got your job to do, but so do I. Let's work together rather than against each other. Because until I get what I need, I will keep nagging you. So I understand you're busy, but I need to get on with things too. So yeah, it's unfortunately that can lead to so many problems where you have incomplete data or there's questions between your time and attendance system and your payroll system. That's sort of opening the gauntlet for, uh, things to be questioned. And as soon as things get questioned, that's where errors are found and that's where you may end up in a position you don't want to be. So be it, you're in the news for mispaying an employee or an employee is constantly coming to you with questions about their pay and it's something that you've missed. But, uh, there's just so many things that can happen and it's such a wide variety of problems that can arise just because of that extra 5 seconds or extra 5 minutes not taken to clarify what it is that you're processing.

Sharni Smith: Yeah, I really love what you said. You know, everyone wants to get paid, everyone wants to get paid correctly. And the payrolls team job is to pay people correctly. They love it. I know you love it. You know, that's what keeps you going week to week. So I think it's just that understanding that everyone wants to get it right and it's not personal, it is very timely. So I agree with everything that you

Kate May: said there and that's pretty much bang on the head that we don't intentionally make errors. If Anything. Payroll people, we are control freaks. We like to have everything perfect week after week. It's not something that we want to be happening where you're coming to us and saying, I think this is wrong, or whatever the case might be. But we can only go with what we are told. So if there's a time sheet that's missing or a shift that's missing, or something that hasn't been loaded correctly, we don't have the authority or the ability to be assuming we have to go back and check that information. And it's very much a case of that's where payroll is very finance driven, that we have to cross all of our T's, dot all of our I's, make sure that everything is as picture perfect as we can get it.

Sharni Smith: All right, well, look, I'll move on to question three. M. I suppose. What would your advice be to someone in a senior payroll position looking to step up into leadership?

Kate May: Give it a try. It's something that processing payroll is. Once you know what you're doing, and you've been doing it for a few years, you feel invincible. You know that you can do it. You know that how you're interpreting timesheets, how you're processing, all of that sort of thing, it's very comfortable because you've gotten so used to it. It's very process driven. As you move up through the hierarchy of the payroll department, you start to take on more ownership of the process. So you can have a say in how the process is driven or if there's ways that you can see that things are going to improve or interacting with the team, taking on responsibility of, say, training them or being that go to person or the in between person, between the payroll manager and the rest of the team. These are all more human, relatable topics. And if it's something that you feel you want to do, if it's something that you want to try, by all means, try. Uh, it's like anything in life. If you don't try, then you don't know if you're going to succeed. If you're open with your leader and they're open to being a mentor, then half your battle is won. I've, uh, been very, very fortunate in the bosses that I've had throughout, specifically the last five years. I've had some fantastic mentors who have encouraged me. Anytime I put my hand up to try and learn something or I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, could we put aside a half an hour or an hour to go over it together. They've been more than happy to give me that time. So I suppose the best thing to do is if you feel you want to do it, put your hand up and ask to learn more. That's going to show your leader that you are interested, that you want to develop and it's also going to help you get out of that shell of, uh, being protected within the payroll team that a lot of us can become introverted within payroll. So moving up to a senior level, if not team leader, if not payroll manager, you are going to start dealing with people more. You have to have that backbone in place. You have to have the confidence to be able to speak on multiple platforms and multiple levels. That all starts with just putting your hand up and saying, I want to know more, I want to be better. How can I do that?

Sharni Smith: No, that's really awesome.

Kate May: I think that's the best advice I can give. Just give it a try and see if you like it. It's something you can adopt into your role, then it's certainly going to lead to bigger and better things.

Sharni Smith: Honestly, from my perspective, when I'm looking at seniors, those people that are on the cusp of leadership and we do have a role where they're looking for that person to step up, the biggest thing is someone who has been proactive throughout their career, asked to do more, learnt more, taken it on themselves to bring forth initiatives or process improvements. Really someone who's willing to put their hand up and say, hey, I would love to do this. So agree with everything that you said. There's a, what would you say are, uh, the top three skills that make a great payroll officer?

Kate May: There's so many things that can make a great payroll officer, but the three primary things that are probably things that are not teachable, that are partly ingrained in a personality, attention to detail and that understanding that you're only as strong as your data. So if your data has no integrity, the rest of the platform is going to change. So you need that really strong base and understanding that, that from the moment the employee onboards, that's where it starts. Anything flowing from that will have an effect on how they're paid, how their leave accrues, everything like that. So, and that then flows into an analysis ability. So if you see something wrong or if something doesn't look quite right, having the ability and the want to then review not just that person, but potentially everyone else who's set up like that and think, okay, well that person's profile is wrong, so they're, they're operating this way, it's not necessarily right. Who else is affected? Can we improve? And is this something that is just isolated to this one person or is it something across the board and then also realizing that that potential setup problem is that something that was unknown to whoever is onboarding, be it the payroll department or hr and if it is unknown, this is an opportunity to improve. You don't take it personally or you don't accuse anybody of oh, you've done this wrong. That's not what we're about. It's a chance to improve and say, okay, well how can we do it better moving forward? So they're probably two things that are ingrained in a person. They're not always teachable. You can, but if someone has that inclination already, it makes it so much easier. And probably the third thing that I love to have in a teammate is fire if they can. If you're having a normal payroll day, and like I said, it's going to be busy on a Monday, you're going to be hitting the ground running. If something happens, if say your platform drops or you're out Internet for the day or anything like that, knowing that that's going to have a flow on effect and you can rely on your teammates to have that fire in their belly to then push through and make sure that we still hit our targets, hit our marks. Everything is done on time. That's not an easily trainable or teachable skill. Uh, and being that payroll is very time sensitive and we do have a limited window to do everything, having that fire just makes it so much easier. So everything else in payroll can be teachable. How to use the programs, how to interpret the awards, how to manipulate the data. That's all teachable. And if you've got a good leader, then they're more than happy to invest that in you. Those soft skills aren't uh, always as easily teachable. So if someone's already got those skill sets as a leader, you're halfway there.

Sharni Smith: Again, definitely agree with you. Years ago, when I first started in payroll, most hiring managers were focused in on systems experience and years of experience in payroll, even for some sort of mid to junior level type roles. So I think it has been really amazing to see that shift in the last three to four years that they are more thinking, okay, what are these soft skills that they're coming with? Can they really succeed in this role? Urgency is definitely something that is really hard to teach someone. That sense of, you know, payroll is so important. You know your would you want to be Paid late or wrong. Those are the kind of questions you need to be asking yourself. You know, you don't always get to leave on time. You don't always get the luxury of, oh, I'm, um, clocked out by payroll, you know, is definitely something where you need to get it right and pay people on time. I just want to get from your perspective what you think has been the biggest change or challenge in payroll for the last two years.

Kate May: I love questions like this because, as you know, I geek out on the whole payroll industry. The biggest change I have personally seen the last two years, well, actually there's probably two, and I can't really decide which one is more prevalent. And one is a reaction to the world that we were given in 2020 of the pandemic. We can now work remotely, which before was not a possibility for payroll. Payroll is such a sensitive information role and something that you need to be accessible to the employees at all times. That's been a huge change to now see people working from home or working remotely or whatever situation they need. Being able to travel overseas, uh, if they need to go and visit family or something, but still being able to be online and available. That's a huge progress for our field. It allows us to still be reachable, but it also allows us to have a little bit of downtime, which, let's face it, HR payroll, we're a high burnout area. So having, having that little bit of flexibility is a wonderful thing. But me personally, the thing that I've probably enjoyed the most the last two years that's changed has been how we are reporting to the ATO and the change of where the payroll information is stemming from. So up until 2019, we would each year at the end of the financial year receive a group certificate from our employer. That then changed. It's now to the point where STP2, Single Touch Payroll Level 2 was released in December of 2023. 22. Sorry, a year ago.

Sharni Smith: Yep.

Kate May: And how that information that's. That's submitted to the ATO every time you do a payroll cycle, you are submitting that information layer upon layer upon layer each cycle to the ato. So they know exactly what we have processed in terms of what we pay our employees. That alleviates the need for us to be producing group certificates. It's not an employer function anymore. It is an ATO function. What that does in terms of the payroll department is it alleviates those needs where the ATO is coming to us and asking for historical employee information. It alleviates them having to Ask for reports for child support payments. So being that it's now been operational for five years, nearly five years, it's going to reduce the amount of interruptions a payroll person has in their week. So, uh, all that admin stuff that you do after the pay cycle that you get to, when you can, all of that is a fundamentally five, 10 years. It's not going to be a problem for us anymore because all of that data will be within the ato. They won't have to come looking to us for that information. And that, that is such an exciting thing. I know a lot of people look at it as Big Brother watching, but in terms of a, uh, payroll professional, it's alleviating so many things out of your already chaotic week that you don't have to be worrying about. It's, it's an incredible function that the ATO have rolled out. So I can't thank them enough for the development that they've done with that. And just the legislation that's changed in terms of that. It is very exciting to see where it's going to go the next five to 10 years.

Sharni Smith: I can see great things and honestly, I totally understand it's been a huge undertaking and all the changes and shifts and things that we had to do during COVID you know, has just sort of increased the amount that we needed to do in a short period of time. M so it is really exciting. But I know exactly what you're talking about regarding that burnout. It's. It has been change after change in payroll, hr, I can't say the word. Similarly, it has been very much the same in hr, so I totally get it. But look, I know we, uh. I sort of said I was only going to ask, you know, four or five questions, but there was another one because you mentioned burnout, I suppose. Do you have any advice for people on how you manage in payroll and that kind of burnout that comes with working in such a fast paced, volatile, constantly changing environment?

Kate May: Magic 8 Ball, maybe. It's something that I'm very passionate about teaching those coming up. Anyone that I have come into a team that I'm part of, even when I was only a payroll officer myself, explaining to them the time sensitivity and that you're not always going to be going home on time. So there is a lot of requirement if you can go in with that knowledge, knowing that there is a bit of pressure on you, you kind of expect it. I mean, you're going into. Anyone going into payroll knows that it's a bit of pressure and you either relish it or you don't. But to reduce the case of burnout, it's a case of communication. It's, uh, like anything, if you can feel yourself getting a bit run down, or if you feel like the pressure is getting a bit too much, voicing that to your supervisor or to your boss or whoever's leading the department and saying, look, we've had a really busy couple of months, I need a down day, I need to just be at home and just chill.

Sharni Smith: Yes.

Kate May: And it's actually an interesting thing because a few years ago, what we all term sick leave changed to what's now called personal leave. Personal leave also covers two days of, uh, mental health days. Now, mental health days, you don't necessarily have to be sick of the flu, but it is a day where you just mentally, you need to tap out, you need to be at home, you just need to just disconnect from whatever you're doing. And that's now permissible within compliance and within legislation. But probably the biggest thing is saying, for me personally, I've been a little sick this week. I'm home working today. I just needed the time to have some quiet, to be able to get through my emails, to be able to speak with you quietly without any interruptions. So being able to do that from home is a big thing. So having that flexibility, like we said, uh, as a result of the pandemic, it's a positive that's come out of it. You can still be tapped into your work, but you don't have to be as pressurized as what you would be visibly accessible in the office. But, yeah, communication is key. If you can vocalise that to your leaders or to your teammate and say, I just need a day or I need to leave early or whatever. And having that relationship with your team is so important. You spend so much time with your team, work colleagues, you see them more than your family, they're going to understand more so than your family when you're starting to run a bit low and when you need to go and sort of recoup. Something I do with my teammate is at least once a month, we'll just go and grab a coffee on a Friday afternoon, I'll ask what's going on in their life, they ask what's going on in mine. 15, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Just no work discussed, no phones, no nothing. We go outside of the business. So it's just a case to just take that breather.

Sharni Smith: That is so nice. And I definitely appreciate when I'm feeling run down or sick. But I suppose on that borderline I can still get work done, especially when there's, uh, urgent things going on. Being able to be at home, not travel, you know, really saves you, I suppose, some energy that you can actually put into the work. So I, I appreciate being able to work from home in that regard as well.

Kate May: Such a key thing now. Yeah.

Sharni Smith: And honestly, burnout is also relatively common in the recruitment industry. Again, up and down can be a bit volatile. Uh, you have to kind of just go with the, go with the flow a little. But I do have to say that things get busy, you get stressed and then you stop doing the things that bring you joy. And I think just having those check in moments with yourself to be like, what have I done today to look after myself, to bring self care, you know, have I had enough water? Am I sleeping well? Ah, have I done any kind of exercise or movement? Um, talked to a friend, you know.

Kate May: Yeah. Do I have something I'm looking forward to in the next six months?

Sharni Smith: Exactly. Holidays are great. Plan as many holidays as you can. Um, it's a wonderful thing to look forward to and to do in your downtime to look at all the, uh, amazing things you're going to do next time you go away. So.

Kate May: Yeah, and not necessarily it doesn't always have to be a grandiose holiday. I've got something I'm looking forward to next month. My parents are celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary, which huge achievement in today's day and age.

Sharni Smith: And that's awesome.

Kate May: That's just something I'm looking forward to and I've got that pinpointed on my calendar. It's been shared in the payroll calendar that I'm excited about it. So just any, any little thing that you can do. Like you said, what's brought me joy.

Sharni Smith: Awesome. Well look, I think we'll wrap up there. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate all of your insights and yeah, what you're able to share from a payroll perspective.

Kate May: Always happy to help my.