Payroll Perspectives - Kelly Pora

Speaker A: Foreign. How you going?

Speaker B: I'm good, thank you. How are you?

Speaker A: Very good, thank you. Thanks for joining me for Peril Perspectives podcast. I think, you know, I'm labeling it season two episode. Episode one.

Speaker B: Excellent. Exciting times.

Speaker A: Yes. We're back from maternity leave now, so better get back into the podcast side of things. And I really appreciate you joining me because, you know, we've had some really interesting and cool things to, to talk about.

Speaker B: Absolute pleasure. I was, I was some, um. I was quite intrigued when you put the. The idea forward. I personally hate the sound of my own voice, but we'll run with that.

Speaker A: Don't we all? Don't we all? I think, um, it's always good to get out of our comfort zones and, uh, do things that we're not 100% comfortable with as well. You know, I've done a few of these actually, but I still struggle a little bit with talking and hearing my own voice back. And look, usually we start off with a bit of a career intro. You're the payroll manager at Basie RSL Care. Can you tell us a bit about your career journey and sort of what led you into payroll?

Speaker B: Sure can. Sure can. I guess, like a vast majority of payroll professionals, it's not something that I ever thought about or aspired to. It's essentially something that I fell into. Um, it was a natural progression from a role. I was the administration manager at our local Harvey Norman here for many years. And as part of that part, that role formed the. We had a managed service payroll, so. So I essentially just approved the pay runs and sort of come across, you know, if there was any issues or whatnot from their natural progression. I fell into a payroll officer role at a local charity in Ballarat and unfortunately I was only there a short period of time. The woman that I replaced, her and I became quite good friends and she ended up sneaking me off with her. I worked at the Cotton On Group for three or four years with her in Geelong. We, um, we worked in quite a large retail team, obviously there of the payroll processes all over the world, which was very exciting. And Lear learned an absolute lot and

Speaker A: moved on to there, to.

Speaker B: Into the Melbourne payroll market. Worked for another charity called Launch Housing and started off there as their senior senior specialist managing the bau while my, my manager, the finance business partner, undertook a implementation project. Actually ended up absorbing her role when she became unwell. So. And I ended up becoming the finance business partner there for the last 18 months of my lifespan at launch before transitioning to here as the payroll manager. VZ RS Care, which I've now been here for about 10 months. Absolutely loving it.

Speaker A: Perfect. And you mentioned previously to me that you're going through you know a uh, day force fixer upper almost. I think you join mid implementation or post go live. And what's your experience been like with this system and what's been the biggest lesson?

Speaker B: Correct? Yes. Well I, I came on board just as we were ending our hypercare period. So we'd gone live in our implementation six months before I started and I, and then I came on board just as our hypercare period was sort of coming to an end. So it was a, a huge learning curve for me. I'd not used day force before. I'd come from a different, a uh, different pay project and so it was a bit of a hustle because obviously everybody was still learning. We had had a little bit of a turnover obviously. I replaced a long term payroll manager, uh, as well as the, the SME for the Dayforce project had moved on to a different workplace as well because she was working on a different implementation. So it was, it was a very interesting time to sort of try and learn really, really quickly and to figure out what was going on. Obviously in the industry that we work in, which is predominantly aged care and home care, there's some quite complex awards and EBAs that are, that uh, are spinning around there as well. So trying to get all of that and work out what was right and wrong. So it's been, it's been a hustle and a bustle the last six months especially just yeah, betting down the knowledge and trying to just get, make sure the config is working and that we're compliant as well. So it's been, it's been, it's been a very busy period of time.

Speaker A: It definitely sounds like it was a hectic time, a lot for you to do and get your head around when you're obviously dealing with the new system. But also it's new to the business and sort of still trying to embed that and make sure that it's sort of running smoothly. So if we take a step back, you know, uh, you're running a fortnightly, uh, payroll and I think you mentioned 650, correct?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, what does the current team structure look like for you and what are the biggest moving parts to get the payroll out the door?

Speaker B: Okay, well we, we operate with a small but highly capable team. So there's essentially two of us. So there is my payroll officer who's an absolute godsend and myself. So we, we maintain the payroll for Fortnite. The biggest moving parts for us are always data quality and, and timing. So making sure that the rosters and the timesheets leave and all the variations are accurate and approved before we begin the pay run. So there's a lot of emphasis for us on, on the quality of that information and our communication as well because everybody is new to the system throughout the, the organization that flows on to the, our communication with the managers and making sure that they're approving and processing things correctly so that when it's flowing through to us we've got accurate data. So you know, even with automation, payroll is very much about vigilance and you know, a successful pay run, it's, it's the result of dozens of small checks and the consistency of those and, and making sure that things are done well from the base upwards.

Speaker A: I completely agree with you. I think if you don't get the foundations right and you don't have the buy in from the people that are giving you the data, it falls down so easily. So um, getting all of that right and having that good, you know, payroll is such an interesting one because you've got that customer service element, the, the people partnering that you have with a business, especially with an aged care business, as well as obviously all of the finance and the data and the checking and things like that. So it's so many different elements. And you know, to be a really good payroll person you need to have that people side and that finance side to sort of do well.

Speaker B: Absolutely agree, absolutely agree. And I'm sort of of the vein of you catch, catch more flies with honey and be being that, that open and welcoming place for people to ask questions. It's, it's uh, we're able to get more reciprocal movement on things if, if there's that friendly face and that open door and you know, people aren't scared of payroll or, or just don't want to play the game because at the end of the day we're all here for the same reason and we just, we just want to get people paid correctly and we need everybody's help to do that. And sometimes it's just, you know, it's, we try and get out of our own way and make, make it easier for everybody.

Speaker A: Exactly. And I think to humanize the payroll function and to actually have you be well known to the business, you know, improves the way that they, the reach out stuff as well. Because payroll is such an important function that you've got people's livelihoods in Your hands. And when things don't go right, you know, people can be quite, uh, rightfully so upset and sometimes hostile. But if you're a known entity, you know, those conversations and the turnaround time to get these things moving, uh, is so much easier. And I think that's where some businesses have struggled in the past, where, you know, there might be some issues and then the team and the customer service and, and the view of the business goes right down and you have to build that back up as sort of new leader in a business. And that can be a really tough challenge. But you, you know, I can see from your perspective that you've done a really good job in the last, you know, you've only been there eight months. Right. Um, to sort of really embed yourself, you know, help them along this journey with Dayforce, but be that people person for them as well.

Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. And you know that, that old saying, you know, people are talking about payroll and going, oh, you know, they only just, you know, all you do is push a button. So trying to move away from that and get people to understand that it's a lot more than that. And, but also from our side, you know, trying to understand that payroll is very emotional to people and a lot of the time, you know, things go wrong and people can be upset and that rightfully so, because obviously, you know,

Speaker A: people,

Speaker B: none of us do this for free. So it's just understanding as well that, ah, it's not a personal attack on us if something happens. And you know, but, but the communication side needs to be there so that everybody's of, you know, under the same thinking of, okay, there's an issue. What is it? How do we communicate this? How do we move forward? How do we make sure it doesn't happen again? But also how to. How do we ensure that the staff trusting of us and are confident in our ability to do our jobs and, and to make sure that they're going to get paid on time because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

Speaker A: Totally agree. And to sort of jump back into this, uh, dayforce side of things. So, uh, if someone's about to embark on a Dayforce implementation, what would your advice be sort of going in and what do you think a successful outcome looks like when you're on the other side?

Speaker B: It's been. Dayforce is obviously, it's been a significant undertaking for us like it would be for anybody and then for any system change. And it comes with both challenges and opportunities. The biggest, biggest lesson for us and is the importance of understanding the business itself and the, the rules and the details of your business so that you can configure exactly what you need. Every payroll system, especially Dayforce, they're all, they're extremely powerful, but they're only as good as the information that you put in. So you need to qualify your data and your, your config before you actually even begin to start that process. Another thing obviously is go Live isn't the finish line. So, you know, it doesn't, you know, it's not all work, work, work, and then go live and it's all done. There's a lot of continuous improvement that, that needs to happen. A lot of qualifiers. Even after you've gone through an extensive UAT process of checking all your config and testing and testing and testing, there's still things that, that sneak through and, um, different occasions that, that may not work exactly as anticipated. So it's, it's the starting point then being able to review and stabilize and then build confidence for the organization as well. Because you don't want to get to the point where you've half asked, go Live, and then you've lost the trust of employees and then you go, oh, it's, you know, what do we do now? So you need to keep going with that.

Speaker A: But yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think, uh, a lot of people sort of go live and then they sort of hate, you know, take your breath. And I think sometimes that's where a lot of the extra work comes in. You know, it's never done. Once you do the go live, there's a lot of additional changes and things that constantly being put through that, that need to be looked at because, uh, unfortunately all of payroll information and awards and EBAs and things like that do not stay the same. And um, yeah, you need to be up to date with that and just make sure that everything's coming through correctly. And yeah, you've just got that common sense to sort of keep validating, keep checking, keep making sure. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Things change very quickly and even, even the interpretation of something will, will change.

Speaker A: Definitely. And while you were going through all of this, obviously you've got a lean team, but you, uh, you mentioned that you sort of reached out to some external consultants to sort of help support as well. When you're navigating these sort of complex environments, how do you decide when is the right time to bring in external support and what makes that, uh, relationship work?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, we, we as a team decided when the work that required specialist expertise essentially because our team didn't have the capacity. And between us and the IT team, it's just, you know, we could, we could learn what we needed to learn over an extended period of time, but it's weaving in and out of the BAU of our roles. So it's, it's balancing that off against the cost of external consultants, but then going, okay, it's going to take me two weeks to figure out what I'm doing whilst I'm doing other things and whatnot, or a half an hour chat with somebody that can go do X, Y, Z and it'll fix it, or here's, here's an updated report that you can run that'll do this or whatnot. So it's that balance of capacity and, and like the return on investment. So, yes, it's going to cost you money, but is it going to save you money in the long run as well?

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: And the accuracy of what they can do, the cost of, of stuff like that does need to play in the forefront of people's minds, but it's the return on investment as well and being able to be compliant very quickly in what you're doing.

Speaker A: And that's the thing like a lot of organizations can be on the back foot with I, uh, guess the speed that we need to fix things, especially in the market the way that it is now, so much emphasis on compliance and, you know, we've got the extra scare level of, you know, the, the new laws and everything sort of putting that pressure on payroll people to have the right information or, you know, they're sort of more legally responsible. So I think when it comes to getting things right and doing in a quick, uh, manner, there's some really great external consultants out there. And, you know, you sound like you've had a really good experience with who you've worked with and it's just about finding the right person at the right time. So I'm glad it's, you know, really worked out for you guys because, yeah, obviously being a lean team going through all those changes would have been very tough to do it all on your own.

Speaker B: Yes, yeah, definitely, definitely. We've, we've got a really great relationship with the team that we've fallen on and we've had some really good wins as well, which has sort of made it even more important and to everybody. And the executive team can see the return there as well, because we're taking these things off our list that have just sort of been sitting there because we, we don't have the capacity, I'd love to be able to sit down and look at this stuff all day. But there's, there's other more pressing things people need to get paid. So yeah, it's, it's just balancing that and making sure that, that it, they fit with your, your environment as well.

Speaker A: And that's why resourcing appropriately is so important. And that comes down to, you know, those temporary uh, consultants, they can get in, you know, just to give you that extra support in that, that moment or in the current situation because you know, you probably didn't need a longer term person to bring into the team. But the consulting helps with that short term.

Speaker B: That's it. Exactly. And being consultants, you know, there's that ebb and flow. So it's not, not a set fte, it's you know, we need an hour this week or we need you for two days next week. So. Exactly. It's that variable as well so that we're not, not spending money or having someone twiddling their thumbs for, for continuous periods.

Speaker A: And to completely pivot to more about your leadership style, managing the team through periods of change and pressure is a real test of leadership. You know, you've come on board where there was a uh, lot going on as we mentioned. How do you keep morale up in a team and keep them focused when things are stretched?

Speaker B: For me it comes down to communication and support and perspective as well. So parallel can be really high pressure and people need to feel that they're not carrying a weight alone. I'm very, very open with, with my team about priorities and the, the outside team as well. So whether that be PNC or finance and whatnot, so that we, everybody can understand the challenges and our actual priorities so that we're getting their work done that they need for us from us as well as our own in, in an order that that means that the business still turns over. Um, I, I really make sure that we, we celebrate the wins, even small ones. When you're in, in the thick of change, it's easy to forget how much progress we've actually made. So we, we try and reflect on that and I try and create an environment where questions are welcomed and safe to ask. And you know, we flag issues early and we sort of have a mantra of everything is fixable. So if there's an issue, we talk about it and we work out what's happened, how to fix it and how it, we, we will try not to let it occur again. So, so you know, we're, we're A chatty bunch, the two of us.

Speaker A: So, um.

Speaker B: I know, right. But no, we love a laugh and we love a chat, but yeah, we're very much open in. If something's gone wrong, we'll talk about it and we'll talk about how it happened, how to avoid it again, and how we're going to fix it. So. And be very clear and open on those sorts of things.

Speaker A: That's perfect. Honestly, uh, celebrating small wins is a huge part of what makes a team sort of work well together and enjoy working together. Especially when your manager or senior, the whole team can get together and actually relate on elements together and talk about challenges and any issues.

Speaker B: Um, I've had periods of. As we all have, I guess we've got, We've worked with managers that we would draw from and pull. Pull things that, when you were a manager that you would like to emulate and you've also, on the opposite side, you've got things that you absolutely would not do or say or be or. So it's, it's just drawing from the inspiration around you a lot of the time as to what you would like to be as a manager and hoping that, yeah, you can reflect positively for somebody else.

Speaker A: Definitely. And, uh, you know, not that I wish a bad manager on anyone, but I think sometimes when you do get up into that leadership position, it actually creates a bit more value on your own. Because being able to say, yes, I want to draw this, this and this from a person is, is great. But also knowing what you don't want to bring across and make sure that you keep yourself accountable in those tough pressure moments when you, you can almost see yourself turning into something maybe that you don't want.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. So, yeah, and like you said about the making sure that the weight of payroll and the responsibility isn't too heavy, I think we can also emphasize that a bit. There's so much in payroll and a, uh, lot in payroll leadership where people are just being burnt out at the moment because they feel like they have the world on their shoulders and they're being asked to do so much and to give so much, but there's nothing being brought back in return. And it's finding that balance when you manage a team.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: To bring that back.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And working in payroll, the large majority of people that work within payroll are ultra empathetic. And we understand that it's not as simple as, oh, we can't get that done, we'll do it next time. Because it means that maybe the difference between somebody being able to feed their family or not. So it's those conversations and that pressure that's put on people to go, oh, uh, well, you were, you were late by five minutes. You don't get paid now. It's not like that. And you know, those are the questions. There's millions of those questions that you make every day. And you know, it's, it's finding the balance of, yeah. Uh, being, being there for everybody but not taking it on board as well and sort of, yeah, being able to go home and break from that, definitely.

Speaker A: And it is a tough balance and I can understand why people do burn themselves out in this industry. But hopefully there's enough good, uh, out there that balances it out and keeps most people going. Um, so Payday Soup is coming. Uh, I feel like this has been an endless. Even before I went on maternity leave, it felt like people were talking about this and I guess how would you compare the changes that are coming and the, uh, emphasis on this versus what we all went through with STP changes?

Speaker B: It's a significant shift, obviously, but in many ways it's building on the foundations of the STP processes that were already created. So there's more transparency, it's more frequency, which is good, and it's the real time reporting, which is going to be fabulous as well. The difference that Super's historically been like a quarterly or for us, a monthly process. And moving to that, that payday payment will require like, it's tighter alignment between payroll, finance and the cash flow. So it's, it's more communication obviously between, between us and the finance team and making sure that the cash flow is actually there. It's, it's less about like, the technical complexity for us because obviously we've got those processes embedded already. So I feel that we're really well geared in our industry, in my workplace for this change. So I think that, yeah, for organizations that handled STP really well, they're going to be really well geared into be. They've already got those processes there. We just need to pivot a little and, and make sure that we've got all of our data ready and lined up to go. And it's, um, you know, we're all in the same boat. And I've, you know, I've been to countless meetings and, and whatnot and breakfasts and all different things, talking to everybody and you know, yes, everybody's worried, but it's. The goalposts aren't changing, they're not moving them. So we've, we've just got to be ready to run.

Speaker A: Definitely. And I think too, you know, obviously it's a bit different for some organizations that might be weekly versus those that might be monthly.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: But, you know, it's a change for everyone. And it does sound like overall on the market, most people are just like, yeah, we're ready. Like, it's, it's fine. You know, we're not stressed, so. Or that stressed. Which is great because I remember the first time around when we were all talking about stp. People. Yeah, people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It was a huge topic and, you know, I can't, can't even remember how many. Yeah. Breakfasts and lunches and talks and webinars and things we did back. Back then. Talking like it was many, many years ago. It wasn't even that long ago.

Speaker B: Uh, feels like a lifetime ago, though. That's the thing

Speaker A: making myself sound old. Compliance obligations around wage theft have shifted significantly in recent years. How has that level of accountability changed? And where do you see the biggest pressure points? For you or for just a team?

Speaker B: In general, the accountability on payroll teams has increased dramatically over the last little while. And it's clear, it's. There's now a clear expectation that organizations must proactively ensure compliance, not just react when things go go wrong. So the biggest pressure point, those in award interpretations and the rostering practices, to make sure that from the start things are being configured correctly. Even small errors can compound over time. So payroll teams, you know, we're expected to be both operational and analytical, so we run the pay while we're also identifying those risks, auditing data real time, and then, you know, making advice to the business as well, to sort of go, okay, we don't think this is right or whatnot. It's a lot. And it reinforces why payroll needs a seat at the table when decisions are being made about workforce management and systems and compliance as well, rather than just sort of coming in after the fact to fix it.

Speaker A: I totally agree. And I think one thing that's always been a, uh, big topic for, for me with people over the last, you know, maybe three to five years is how are we bringing new people into payroll? Because obviously most people have fallen into it, like you mentioned earlier. Uh, now it's becoming a bit more of a conscious choice for people. But the level of education and training and the amount of roles that are, uh, entry level is very small. So I wonder how we're going to keep up with all of these changes, especially creating this analytical side of payroll, how that's going to shift teams and um, bringing people in because we've always really struggled to bring in new talent into payroll, I guess. Do you have any thoughts on what you think is going to be the difference there?

Speaker B: You're right. It's, it's very difficult to get the talent and a lot of the roles, even a lot of the, the junior style roles are wanting experience which, you know, it's like, well, how do people get experience? I'm very much an advocate for, for a junior role. And even if it's starting people off as a payroll admin, doing some basic tasks and learning, learning the company and payroll from the ground up and, and sort of getting, getting a foot in that way, it's also disaster plan. Something, something happens because I've worked in workplaces before where some things have gone really, really wrong and your whole team is out for a, for a period of time, whether it's, you know, deaths in families and surgeries and you know, and everything's just, you know, coincided and you end up with the PNC team processing payroll off your, your notes. So, you know, which is not fun for anybody, especially the payroll team after the fact. But, you know, yeah, it's, it's a hard question to answer because yeah, everybody, like you want people to hit the ground running, but unless they have the base knowledge, how do they do that? So you need to give people the skills to be able to succeed and to do that you need to teach them from the base level. So there needs to be more, more junior roles, more admin roles to, to progress through so that you're, you're setting these people up to win.

Speaker A: I totally agree with you and I think I constantly am trying to get uh, any people that I deal with when it comes to recruitment to just really look at the sort of must haves that they're asking for because even when you're after someone with experience, sometimes the list is endless that you want someone to have X amount of payroll experience as well as the industry experience as well as the systems experience experience as well as, you know, they obviously need to be somewhat within the location that you're hiring for, um, salary ranges and everything like that as well. And I think if you can give someone something to learn, they are more likely to stay because payroll people, unfortunately, especially since COVID have been quite jumpy. Um, and that's for many reasons because salaries went crazy and wouldn't want to take an extra, you know, 10, 20K into their, to their salary. But yeah, I think we, we really need to be able to give something Back to people because, you know, why would they stay if they're doing the exact same job and they're not learning anything and they're not developing, um, they're not getting any small senior experience or systems experience. It's a catch 22. When you're getting someone that ticks all the boxes. How long will they stay?

Speaker B: Exactly? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Strong question to ask if anyone can take on, um, juniors, please, please do it. The entire payroll community.

Speaker B: We will, we will all thank you. I'm.

Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I'm a big advocate for that and sort of, yeah. Pushing, pushing for some cross training in our teams at the moment just for those exact reasons and yeah, because I accidentally fell into payroll. We'd also like to see those people that, yeah. You know, are interested in the industry and want to be here from the get go before they, they've even set foot in.

Speaker A: Well, that's a huge thing that's changing. There's plenty of people that want to pivot into this career now probably because of all of the stuff in the news. But as well as that, people are aware that this kind of role yields a different kind of salary and career growth. So it is great once you're in.

Speaker B: Definitely.

Speaker A: Um, but yeah, just to get in, there's, there's huge barriers and even, you know, you've worked with a really, really small business and you've had, you know, a 20 person payroll or something like that, it can be really hard for them to get into a larger organization as well.

Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And this. Yeah. M. As there's so many different variables and you know, even barriers as, you know, different, different programs, different awards, you know, they're all so, so vastly different that. Yeah, it's those, those employers that are looking for ultra specific qualities that yeah,

Speaker A: you can essentially just doing themselves a disservice without.

Speaker B: I think so. I think so.

Speaker A: Fully aware because they want to save themselves on, on training and things like that and their budgets and certain things. But I think if you really look at it, you're not saving yourself much. Absolutely.

Speaker B: The most important thing for me is fit, um, employee. For fit. You can teach just about anything but the person needs to, to fit within your team and the culture of the business that you work in. You can teach, you can teach people. There's already processes, you know that, that part comes secondary.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: If they want to learn and they fit the culture, then that is amazing.

Speaker A: Yeah, totally agree. I guess, sort of last big question for you, someone earlier in their sort of payroll career, a lot of People sort of want to go down this leadership track. What would your advice be or what would you tell them about what the job actually involves versus what they might expect?

Speaker B: A lot of. I think that from, from the outside looking in a lot of management is just, just a lot of talk and a lot of meetings and, and whatnot. Which there are, there are leadership itself to me is, is the, it's doing what you say and saying, you know, and saying what you mean and doing. Going the extra mile for the, the people that you work with and for making sure that, that everybody's is set up to succeed. Going to bat for people when they m. May be maybe drowning in work or might just have some problems that they need help troubleshooting. There's so many balls that you're juggling. It's, it's about time management and being, being responsible for, for other people's work sanity and, and just.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Making sure that, that everybody's expectations are aligned on, on what's going on and making sure that you're prioritizing and reprioritizing. It could be 15 times a day depending on what comes in. And it's, there's never a dull moment. You're always busy. You know, there's always conversations to be had with people. But it's being visible, it's being open to conversations with people. And to me it's. Yeah, it's creating those relationships across the business so that I've got people that I can go to when I'm snowed under depending on what the issue is, but they can also come to me and I'll chip in and help. So it's just. Yeah, it's rolling with the punches, it's doing yeah. Whatever crops up next and never being surprised with what's going to happen because you know, it's just. Yeah, it's a ride.

Speaker A: Yes. It's not all days are the same or weeks are the same.

Speaker B: Not at all.

Speaker A: I think the biggest thing that I've noticed in, in leadership roles, especially payroll, I think sometimes people's expectations is that they will have more control, they will have more decision making power and that they will have more time to do the analytical and strategic work. And some of that is true, but a lot of it is not. I think there's still a lot of tough conversations that need to be had. You know, you have that with your uh, your managers and your teams and, and wider businesses, a lot of advocating and abilities to speak, manage stakeholders. So it's a lot of people related stuff like you Said a lot of meetings there is more strategic work that can be done but thinking that that's the work that you're going to be doing, you know, 90% of the time is, is you know, not a reality unfortunately. Um, so yeah, it's the m. Higher up you go in a leadership capacity and you know, depending on what size team you have and what size organization it is, it gets very much more people management and people related, um, and less into the details. So you know, I find those more analytical people need to get more into those compliance related roles and all in a bit more of a smaller organization. So they can have hands in multiple different things. But those that are sort of, you know, head of payroll, you know, you're really stepping away a bit into more of a strategic people partnership kind of role.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's, it's dependent. There's so many different avenues that you can go down these days and yeah, you really need to reflect on, on what you think you would be happy doing. And yeah, so if you are one of those people that you know, get sleeves up, let's go. That's more you know, in either a smaller, a smaller environment where you can your hands dirty and you can process and you can do that if you want to move away from that and you really feel that the people management side is, is where your strengths like yeah, the head of payroll, a payroll manager in a larger department where you've got people that cannot do their work autonomously. Yeah. And it just depends if you really like the nitty gritty. An analyst role, you know, you might be able to, yeah, get into an analyst role and look at, look at the back end and go uh, and try and figure out what's going on. There's so many options and it's just, you know, uh, you're just limited by, by what you want and what you feel would make you happy and, and just go for it.

Speaker A: Exactly. And it's not like the salaries can be that different or far outside of the scope either. You know, you can earn quite a lot being more of a senior analyst as well as manager. So it's about what you actually have the skill set for and the drive for because sometimes people sort of jump into that kind of role and then they're not happy.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, no, I agree, I agree definitely. And yeah, it's about, you know, like obviously, you know, most of us have started off processing and so, you know, there'll come a point in time where a large majority will go, I'm done. With that. I want to. I want to focus on different avenues. And, yeah, you've got, you've got compliance, you've got analyst roles, management roles. It's. It's what you, what you feel your skills will be best aligned to and what will make you happy. Because we work a lot, so you need to be relatively happy in your job.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining me for first episode of season two podcast. It was an absolute pleasure. I think what you've had to say is really valuable, and, uh, I hope a lot of people get, get to sort of view this and get some value out of it.

Speaker B: Wonderful. Thanks so much for the opportunity. It's been great fun.

Speaker A: Sam.