Zain Oke on Surviving a Corporate Crisis — and Selling to Chobani

Hello and welcome to Asking Good Questions, the podcast where we explore the intersection of finance, operations, and leadership. I am your professional host and slightly less professional hat wearer, Edward Roski. I will be asking the good questions today. Answering them, I'm joined by someone who has made quite the journey from Big Four auditing to boardrooms across multiple industries with 20+ years spanning finance, operations, corporate governance. She's currently serving as the board member and audit committee chair for Daily Harvest, and we have a really interesting question to ask on that one. Also leads automotive operations as general manager at AAA Northern California. I have no idea how she manages to get all this done in one day, but that amazing someone is Zain Okay. And Zain, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Edward. I'm excited to be here in our discussion today. Awesome. So we're going to dive right into the big news. Just a few weeks ago, Chobani wrote what I assume was a really large check to buy Daily Harvest. It was undisclosed. Don't tell me what the check amount is. And that's the company where you've been on the board, audit committee chair. What's it like being in the room when someone wants to buy your company? You know, Edward, it's really an exciting time to be in the room having those discussions when there's an opportunity for a company to be able to leverage itself to take on that next challenge ahead of— ahead. And I think in those situations, you're really trying to determine, like, how do you ensure you're doing your fiduciary responsibility? Of ensuring that shareholders get the most value that is out there for the companies. And just the conversations around, is this a good partnership? Will this company maintain the same sort of values and mission that the acquired company is already deeply embedded in? And hoping to see that more comes out of it on the other side. So, it's a really good and exciting time to be to be in the room when those discussions are happening. Not to make this all about me, but I do start every morning with a Chobani Greek yogurt, and I've been a vegetarian since I was 16. So I am, I'm a big Daily Harvest fan as well. I think it's going to be an amazing partnership. When, when you see companies like that coming together, you determine ahead of time what it's going to be like to fiscally partner with them, what it's going to be like to operationally partner with them. How do you find out if the cultures are going to mesh with the two companies coming together? Edward, that's a really good question, and that is an important part of the conversation, right? Will the cultures match? Is there the ability for the integration that allows for a seamless transition? And so, those conversations really happen while the other conversations are happening. How does management get along with the other team? Do they have the same sort of visions? Do they speak in similar language? It may not be exactly, but do they see alignment? And I think those are the important questions or discussions that are happening in the background as these transactions occur. So this is good news, great news for Daily Harvest. I think it's going to be an awesome partnership, great expansion. Daily Harvest has definitely had its ups and downs. They went through hell with that— what was it— lentil recall a couple of years ago, people getting sick, lawsuits, that whole nightmare. How do you transition from that, from going from from what was a pretty low point, obviously it wasn't part of the mission, and turning that around to finding, opening up a conversation with a potential buyer, figuring out like how we can actually take this to the next level. I think in situations like that, Edward, people in business recognize that there are points in times when situations occur that aren't of your making specifically. And so the real question is, how do you come out of that? What did management do? How did you perceive your ability to be transparent and communicate with your customer base? How do you turn that messaging around to focus on really what your business is about? And how do you address people's concerns to ensure that they— that you can continue to be that trusted product? And to me, that's the most important aspect. It's not what happened, but what happens next. What do you do to come out of that situation and address the concerns? Well, one of the things I liked is the adoption of technology. Daily Harvest, I mean, I'm fascinated. I've read probably 30 articles on, for instance, the use of AI. There was one that mentioned Daily Harvest using AI to figure out how much dry ice to pack with each individual system. And being an operational nerd, that is the kind of nerdy operational detail that I love. It can make margins, it can break margins. When people come to the board and they are evaluating these AI bets, how do you separate the ones that are going to be genuine game changers like that are going to take Daily Harvest to those, those, those heights from the, the AI projects that I'll, I guess I'll call expensive toys? Well, I think the, the real start of the conversation occurs when management brings the idea forward. Right? Really understanding what's our objective, what are we going to accomplish, and how do we put protective guardrails around what we're doing? In this world of AI, there are lots of things that can occur. And as part of our board responsibility, we have to look at the broader picture around risk and what exposure that might bring to us. And in certain situations, there's probably not a lot of risk. It's just whether or not we did put in the appropriate assumptions to have the outcome that we anticipate or to see the outcome we anticipate. In other cases, it's changes that may incur risk, right? How are these decisions being made? What factors are we considering? And how are we monitoring it to ensure that if things go off the rails, we're able to cap— control it and rail it back in? So I think those are the types of questions when we're sitting in the boardroom, we're asking of management and understanding why this pivot, why this change, why this introduction of this new platform, and really understanding, okay, and what are the things that could go wrong? And how do we consider how we we would address them if they do go wrong. I think that's awesome. I normally, when one company acquires another one, uh, you start saying like, how is Chobani gonna change Daily Harvest? But I think with Daily Harvest being able to overcome some pretty significant challenges with their use of AI, because I haven't found as many articles about what Chobani is doing with it, I think a more interesting question is how will Daily Harvest in the long run end up changing Chobani? Like what lessons they can learn as part of that partnership. But, you know, you have Chobani, you have PepsiCo buying Poppi for, I think it was $2 billion. Everybody is, is hunting for, for wellness brands. And you, you're seeing this from the inside. Is this, is this just rich companies with too much cash, or are they, are they concerned they're going to get disrupted by some startup with a better Instagram presence? Is it an overall— I don't know, societal trend away from sugar, carbs, fat over to wellness? Like what's leading to it? I mean, I do think that there's a societal change changing there around wellness. People are understanding more about what their body and bodily intake consists of, and they're asking more questions and they're looking for more options out there that provide them healthy alternatives. And so I think companies see the importance of that and the ability to get ahead of the curve as we as individuals make different decisions, right? And probably in that period of COVID a lot of us had to make different types of decisions and we had to really think about what our healthy nutritional intake consisted of. And I think it was an opportunity for a lot of wellness brands to be able to kind of disrupt what was the traditional, what I'd call food industry. Yeah, I think I read somewhere that between '23 and '24, the average weight of someone in the United States actually decreased for the first time in, I don't know, a generation. Plus at this point. I was passing by a Smoothie King and I was reading the menu board and they had an entire menu board devoted to smoothies for people taking GLP-1s, Ozempic, Wegovy, that kind of thing. And it's like, how many could there actually be? So then I went down a rabbit hole and found out that something like 1 out of every 8 Americans has tried some form of semaglutide, GLP-1, some form of inhibitors. So I, I think you've gotten to be at the, at the forefront, not just of wellness, but, but also AI. Let's talk about that for a second. So you've sat on the boards of a few different companies and seen lots of different roles, and I'm guessing they are all in different AI adoption phases. How is AI reshaping the financial oversight role? If there are audit committees out there, like, what should they be watching for? Should they be concerned? Should they be excited about all this AI? I think there's a lot of opportunity out there for AI in the finance space, and I think audit committees and boards in general should be really excited to understand how management thinks that they can capitalize on that opportunity. And again, really understand how management intends to use it. In the finance realm, I think there's lots of opportunities around day-to-day practices. That could allow teams to leverage AI and leave them open for more of the analysis type work or the strategy work. And I think AI can help them around the analysis aspect because when you think about how much data input you need from your own internal sources and you want to compare that to industry or competitors, the amount of time and energy that goes into that, hopefully AI would be able to reduce that to allow you to then effectively look at that information and then determine how it impacts your operations or your strategy to move forward. And that's where you hope the time kind of shrinks and around the analysis and the data collection, and then how time opens for more of like the strategy and how you can look for operational effectiveness. Do you see AI reducing expenses or being more of a force multiplier or being something that, to your point, must-have? Because there's a certain point where there's just too much data for a human human being even to deal with it all. But do you see it as also as a way to reduce cost? Do you see it as a way to not have to be adding more people? Like, how do you think it will affect kind of the, the— what impact will it have operationally? Is it going to make companies more profitable? Is it just going to make them be able to expand faster? Well, I think the answer there is it depends. I think in some companies it will allow them to utilize resources differently. So they may not lose headcount. They just may utilize those resources differently. In other situations, AI will allow it to become a force multiplier in that situation where they're already staffed appropriately, but now they can get more out of that team because they now have the assistance there, again, for all the things that I described earlier. So I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all in all situations. I also think that AI can be beneficial for those startups, right, that are looking to really move the needle but don't necessarily have the capital at their fingertips immediately to be able to hire all the resources that they might need. And so in some situations, AI might be the ability for them to leverage up a bit in order to really get themselves to the point where they can get work done without having to spend the cost. But then get to the point where now they're in a position to leverage and begin to attract capital that will allow them to hire people and possibly in other types of roles and not focused on the back office all the time. I like your point that that barrier to entry drops pretty substantially with AI. Well, modern AI, traditional AI, having a high-priced and deservedly so team of data scientists around was something that maybe the Russell 2000 probably the Fortune 500, maybe the Fortune 50 actually could realistically afford. But now generative AI, the barrier dropping, you can see it at small to mid-sized businesses. You can see it at startups. A lot of companies are starting with AI on the front end. How do we put a, you know, let's put a chatbot on our website. I don't know, how could we have customer support come in through AI? You've run into it though, in being embedded in more the, the operational side thing. It can be used for things like predicting customer churn, personalizing offerings, figuring out when you should reach out to your customers and when you, when you should not. How much do you see AI impacting that, that operational side? I think that's where it plays a significant impact, right? And a significant role. We talked a bit about how do you take all that data that's out there and be able to utilize it. When you really think about how AI is impactful, it's because it has data points, whether they're internal data points from your own company or if you're getting external data points. It's the ability to sift through a lot of that quickly to be able to then have predictive capabilities to know when those levers need to be adjusted or can be adjusted, or what are the drivers behind adjusting them, right? And so I think for a lot of companies, really understanding what is your data, what data do you actually have, and how can you utilize that for more of the predictive capabilities. Some companies are way ahead of the game when it comes to that, and some companies are still starting that journey. So before we take a quick break, I want to ask you kind of a AAA question. So you're seeing the automotive industry, the car ownership, car servicing, you're seeing that digital transformation firsthand. Where are the biggest risks? It could be AI or could be digital transformation, but where should people be concerned, like slow it down a little bit? I think when it comes around safety, we're in the world now where auto— autonomous vehicles are out there. I live here in the Bay Area, and so when I'm driving around, I see those autonomous vehicles. And every once in a while I look and I'm like, oh, right, a couple more passengers in the back than usual. Usually it was one passenger, two passengers. And we've heard of the stories of the accidents. And I think really understanding how we're using AI from a safety standpoint, because we can't stop what is already unleashed currently, but we can get people comfortable in that transition when we really understand how do we ensure the safety of not just those passengers in the vehicles, but those people around those autonomous vehicles. And everybody, I think, is concerned about that factor. And as we think about what are the situations, what are the scenarios, how are these vehicles being tested, more cities open up to the ability for those vehicles to be on the road. That safety question just becomes larger and larger. And as we help to really provide people the comfort of knowing that those safety measures are there initially and can only get stronger, I think people will then open the aperture for more and more of those vehicles to be on the road. And we'll start seeing that slow transition, right? But I don't think we're fully there yet. I think a lot of people still like the idea of controlling. And that's also part of the whole situation with AI. It's like, how much of it can you actually control? And do we lose control. And so I think in the bigger scheme of things, how do we address that fear, that fear of lack of control as we think about AI and how it impacts many other industries as well? Yeah, I was seeing the other day that Waymo in the Bay Area has now passed in terms of number of trips market share-wise Lyft. So Uber is still ahead. But if you look at the trend line, Waymo is going to pass. And then obviously you have Elon's taxi side coming in as well. And what's that going to do? Yeah, that the ship has sailed or the autonomous car has driven. I'm not quite sure what to say, but it's, you're right. It's like, how do we, how do we, there, there is a world I think where in 25 years we are more likely to look back and say, why did we ever let the humans drive? Uh, than we are to look back and go, why did we ever let the cars drive themselves? But we're not there yet. We're in that kind of squishy middle. And I gotta admit, it freaks me out when I pull up at an intersection, I need to make a left turn and there's no driver on the car at the other side of the four-way stop. Um, I, I I also did read that they're, they're doing some things to make us feel more comfortable about the cars. My personal one that just amuses the daylights out of me is when it rains, the Waymos turn on the windshield wipers. There's no reason to do that. It is not looking out the front windshield, but people freak out when they see a car coming that is completely covered with water and there's like no way that person could be driving. So it does it just to make other people feel more comfortable. I think that's where we're going to be for a while. Like, I think, and hopefully it won't stay that way forever. I found out the other day, I know this, I'm just talking about random things that I've read, but I, by law in the United States, all motorcycles must have their headlight on at all times. It's just there by default. This apparently dates back to the earliest motorcycles because people thought that they were bicycles and they didn't appreciate how quickly they were coming at them. So they made them have a headlight on the front just to show they were going like a whole lot faster. And then it's just apparently been a law on the books for like like 100+ years, but maybe with AI we'll get to the world where, I don't know, entire lanes will be devoted or maybe entire highways, maybe the city grid, you know, the autonomous vehicles will drive. Before we dive more into your career journey, taking you all the way up through AAA, we're going to take a quick break and hear from our amazing, awesome, stupendous, great AI services sponsor, Capris AI. This episode of Asking Good Questions is brought to you by the great folks at Capris AI. As someone who spent over 25 years helping improve the office of the CFO, I am genuinely excited about what Capris is doing. They're bringing the power of AI to finance and accounting teams in a way that actually makes sense, helping unlock insights buried in data and make better business decisions even faster. If you're in FP&A or accounting and you want to see how AI can transform your workflow, Check out Capris AI. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Thank you to Capris AI for paying our bills, handling all of our production, making this entire thing possible, funding me and hats. Oh wait, they don't pay me anything. Thank you for handling the production. So Zain, I am fascinated by your career journey. First of all, you managed to last like 18 years at Deloitte, which for anyone that doesn't understand the consulting world, that's like 3 lifetimes. Um, then you got up to partner and then you went I don't know, screw it. I'm actually going to go run things instead of just audit them. What was that moment that you realized you wanted to stop being the person who advises and points out problems and start being that person who actually has to fix them? Yeah. Well, I think for me, Edward, that moment came— my husband and I had started our own business in 2012. We had started a fast casual restaurant in the Bay Area, in Berkeley, actually. I mean, it was called Suya African Caribbean Grill, and it was an exciting time for us because we thought, you know what, we have an idea and we think we can make that idea come to fruition. And around that first year, our goal was like, okay, how do we ensure that we can make this as efficient and effective a business as possible, come out on the other side profitable, but still deliver a quality, consistent product to our customers? And people had told us going in, be prepared. Most restaurants take 3 to 5 years before they see the black of profitability. And we were both, we're both business people. And so we're like, how do you operate in the red? Like for 3 to 5 years? Like that didn't necessarily compute for us. And in year 1 for us, we were profitable. So then we had put aside some monies in order to kind of keep the business afloat if it was going to be in the red. As people had predicted and determined that, hey, we could take that pile of money and we can open up our second location. And so it was when we started seeing that vision of scale that I really stopped to say, hey, this is an opportunity that we should really take advantage of. And for me, the excitement of finding a new location, opening a new location, really being able to determine how do we market our product, how do we get people introduced to something that is not necessarily their daily food fare. Most people, you'll wake up, you'll say, I feel like a burger today, or I feel like pizza. But here in the US, you don't necessarily wake up and say, hey, I'd like suya, which is really a mainstay in West African countries. And so that was really our goal. And we were, we were doing really, really well at it. And so that's when I said, you know, what, what am I enjoying more? I'm actually enjoying this opportunity to scale. And that's where I made my pivot point to really joining my husband full-time in that effort and realizing that I love the world of operations just as much and beginning to enjoy even more than the world of finance that I had always grown up in. But what I like about it is, on the finance side, you've been controller, internal auditor, and now from the restaurant side, now you're running automotive operations at AAA. It's like you've had the opportunity to be I don't know, the, the coach, the quarterback, the referee. How does, how does having that 360-degree view change how you think about running a business? I think in a lot of ways I've, I focus now more so on what's the information that helps the operator achieve their goal and how do we take again all that data that we have about what our business is doing and utilize it in a way that gives insight to the operator. Oftentimes, most of our— my team is— they've been in the industry for a long time, and I'm referring now to the automotive services team that I work with at AAA, and they have seen a lot in their years. But there's a lot of data that's out there that talks about what we've done in the last 5 years. What are we seeing with the demographics of our customers? What are we seeing with the vehicle information that we have? How do we take that information and help us determine, okay, are there segments of the population we should be going after? Are there things that we should be thinking about around certain vehicles and what we can anticipate the changes looking like that might impact our business? And then how do we take that information and help make those next decisions if we decide to continue to grow? And to me, those are the important things that I see as, hey, I used to be the person in the back end pulling that information together and helping the business understand. Maybe it was historical as the controller, maybe it was strategic as the advisor. But now that I'm actually in the operator seat, like, how do I ensure that that is the information that I am receiving and how do I get my business partners now to provide me more of that information? So how do you, how do you switch between thinking like a board member and thinking like an operator? I mean, a lot of people would have would get whiplash. Maybe I shouldn't have said those exact words being in AAA, but just like, how do you, how do you go back and forth from like that really high-level strategic role to now I actually have to do the day-to-day? I don't know, make sure the oil change bay is fully staffed or something. So luckily I float in the middle somewhere in between there, right? I have a great team. And so really my job as an operator is to really understand our issues and the obstacles and how do I remove those, right? How do I really spend my time thinking ahead head and making strategic choices or determining, hey, I think there's a change here that can be effective. Do we put— run a pilot and do we try it out? And then do we roll— scale it out to all of our stores? As a board member, I really start thinking from a governance standpoint, what are the risks? What are the things around the corner? How is management ready to address those questions? So I really get to play more of the advisor role. In that situation, and I get to ask a lot of the questions. I don't have to necessarily come up with the answers, but I do have to be thoughtful about what are the things that we as a board should be thinking about that impact all of our stakeholders. Similarly, in an operator role, I have to think about that, but I also have to help come up with the answers to those questions. And so that's where for me the differentiation lies. So, Well, let's talk about that, that automotive service industry just briefly. It's getting hammered from all sides. There are definitely some types of cars that need less maintenance than traditional. You have mobile repair startups, you have Tesla trying to own that entire end-to-end customer experience from the day you first see a car, I guess, until you or the car dies. So let's say you're the person who has to figure out how AAA stays relevant. In the next 25 years? What keeps you up at night? So I think for us, it's one, maintaining the brand loyalty, ensuring that we are delivering on quality and maintaining our members' trust. Because when it comes to vehicles, people have not always had great experiences in trying to get their vehicle repaired. And so we're trying to be the disruptor in that space of saying, hey, We're AAA. We're a brand that focuses on our members and non-members because in our automotive services we're open to both. So you don't have to just be a AAA member. But how do we maintain that level of quality and service so that our brand is not impacted in any way? And as we do that, it's really focusing on how do we ensure we've got the right resources, whether it's people, equipment, and ensuring that we're staying on top of what's happening with vehicles. Vehicles even today. And so, we've run a recent pilot where we're focused on electric vehicles. What, what does it take for us to be able to deliver repair on electric vehicles beyond just tires and ensuring that as we do that, that our team members are educated in that space and have the training that they need in order to deliver that same sort of quality of service to an ICE vehicle that they can. To an electric vehicle. So you're, you're basically living in the future right now. You've got a front row seat to electric vehicles. Now that's changing everything. You've got food tech that just got bought out by a CPG giant. You've got traditional automotive getting disrupted like I've never seen it in my lifetime. Let's talk about that finance function into the future. So look ahead 5 years, What do you think that finance function is going to look like? Like, are we still going to need auditors? Will we have to have AI, I don't know, manage the auditors or vice versa? Are we going to be, I don't know, managing AI instead of spreadsheets? What do you see happening over the next few years? I mean, I do think that certain back office tasks can probably be more automated than they are today. I do think that that's going to free up people to be able to use their mind flow in a different way. I still do think though that there's monitoring responsibilities that will exist. And so will the auditors be auditing something different? Probably. They'll probably even be using AI themselves to determine the predictive capabilities of information that's being produced. By the finance function. But there's also controls that have to exist. And so maybe at that point, more of those controls are more and more automated. Of course, they have been over the years. I think back to when I was a baby auditor and people still had general ledgers that were the size of telephone books and bigger, and everything was done manually to where we are today with systems galore and always trying to audit the black box. And so many of us had to really understand, okay, information in, Good information in has to be good information out. Bad information in means bad information out. And so we have to learn to really understand the black box. And so I think in many ways with AI and in the future, the way we monitor, the way we detect, and how do we ensure that things don't go wrong, those needs will still exist. The management team owns that responsibility first. The auditors own it to determine that management's got a way to identify those issues. And so I think the way we do things will look different, but I think those functions will still need to exist. But the day-to-day tasks, the how do you close your books and does it still need to take 3 days or can it be done overnight? Those things you'll see speed up. So what makes someone valuable in finance in 5 years? Like if we're skating to where the puck is going and we're giving advice to people maybe who want to go into the world of finance— it's fun, join us, the water's warm— or already in the world of finance and want to make sure they're gainfully employed in 5 years, what will make them valuable come 2030? I think the real thing right now is just around systems and how to utilize a lot of the platforms that are out there. How do you get data out of various systems like ERPs that various companies use, and how do you pour them into other platforms like Tableau and gather information? How do you take that information and deliver it to the user, the end user who actually now needs to actualize it in some form or format in the operations to deliver value, top line and bottom line. And I think being able to flow through data is going to be key and to analyze that information quickly or use the systems out there to help deliver information quickly is, is going to be the critical need. We see it today and there are people who are, who are learning these systems and trying to get more efficient at it, it will become table stakes 5 years from now. So I'll ask you one more question before we hit our lightning round. There are a lot of finance people listening to this podcast and going, I would like to be on a board. How do I, how do I get— do what, what Zain did and make that happen? I mean, there's obvious stuff. Don't suck at your job, be really good, stand out. But how— for the people that want to do it, what is the skill that's going to make someone indispensable to a board in the next decade? I think one of the changes that I've seen recently in the board dynamic is that a lot of the boards are looking to people who are actually operators currently. Before, it used to be a lot of, hey, we'd like this retired CEO or this retired CFO.. And understanding, again, COVID was one of those situations where, hey, what is going on in the workforce and in the workplace that's impacting the marketplace? And how do we make some quick decisions if we are currently not being individually impacted, impacted ourselves? And so being a strong operator, having industry expertise, Being able to leverage that in a way that makes you effective as a board member is going to be key. Understanding governance, knowing when it's nose in and fingers out, meaning how do you stay at that level where you're really asking management the right things and not necessarily trying to do it on behalf of management. And I think gaining those skills early on in your career, serving on not-for-profit boards, working in the community and serving on various committees. Those are the things that start to give you some experience around governance. Sometimes they're more managing boards, and so you need to play the treasurer or the secretary type roles, but they will give you the, the early foundation to be able to gain more and more governance experience. And then you take your work experience and you layer that in there, and you become more confident in what you're able to deliver if you're sitting at the board table. And so being open to those opportunities early on in your career, I think, are always great. And then recognizing that you don't have to wait until you're a retired person to possibly begin serving in that board role, but really beginning to develop those skills throughout your career. Awesome. So, Zym, we're going to wrap up with some rapid-fire questions. So I'll hit you with a quick question, say the first thing that comes to mind, And we, we, I'll give you several of them. We'll get you into a zone. It will be a mix of kind of personal and professional. So first of all, for our listeners, they know this. I actually live in the Caribbean. I live in Puerto Rico and I go to all the other islands. What food do I need to try? Jerk chicken, if you have not, because we used to do jerk at our restaurant. So definitely do that. Yeah, that would be my first. And plantains. I'm so surprised how many people have not had plantains. So, oh wow. Yeah, it's, it's really weird living here in San Juan and walking to the grocery store and you can just buy them and they're absolutely delicious. Why is auditing more interesting than it sounds? Auditing is so much more interesting because it is one way where you can learn the most about companies without having to serve a role at every function. Because as an auditor, you really need to understand the business. Business, but you also need to understand the processes that support that business. And there is lots of ways to begin to understand how you can be effective as a business partner for all of those different channels and determine, hey, is there a particular channel that I would actually like to step into if I was no longer an auditor? So it's a great way to learn about a company and determine what your next step might be. Love it. You've sold me and many small children on auditing. Personal question: who is better, dogs or cats, and why is it dogs? Dogs. I agree with you, and it's because they are just amazing animals, and they come to you and they greet you and they're all over you as soon as you come home. Just dogs all day. Yes, the dogs let you know that you are God and they love you instantaneously. A cat will eat you after you die. I'm gonna leave it at that. That said, cats are adorable, but obviously All dogs go to heaven. I don't know where cats go. Best career move that you almost didn't make? I would say years ago I had a choice of a particular client to serve. The reputation in the firm at the time was that this is one of the toughest clients and one of the toughest teams to work with. And everybody kind of like— it's a situation was, was like, who raises their hand? And two people, everybody takes two steps back. Back and I'm the only one standing forward. It wasn't exactly like that, but it was probably one of the most pivotal points in my career, was taking on that particular engagement despite the reputation that it had in the firm. If you could only track one metric, what would it be? One metric as a finance person? Yeah, you only let one. Net income. Perfect. And finally, a AAA question: do you ever see a time when the average person won't own a 'cause it'll, I don't know, just arrive whenever you need it. I do see that. I think when I think about what does it look like 25 years out in the future, will we all need parking lots, garages? That would be so interesting to know that I could just summon my vehicle to me. Yeah, I think it's gonna become one of those things that people will wax poetic about it and that people will want to do it because they have these fond memories of this different time. I look at people riding horses. We're not doing that because it's the fastest way to get from point A to point B, but there's something just kind of magical about it. And being as someone who got his driver's license the day he turned 16, I never want to give up driving. So now people will love it. They all want to have their collector's items, etc. But like you said, not everybody will have that situation. Yeah, it will free up— it'll free up space. You look at the large percentage of time that's devoted to vehicles, you know, garages, driveways, streets, parking lots for someone using about 4% of the time, it's definitely going to transition. I think we all get to be on the forefront of it. Zain, it has been fascinating hearing your perspective on everything from the Daily Harvest acquisition— timely, thank you for sitting down for the interview today— to AI transformation across lots of different industries. Final thoughts for our listeners? Anybody navigating that intersection of finance, technology, and operations? I think it's just really, really important to stay current. As much as possible. Take those courses, get those accreditations, get those certificates, but keep your mind open to the change that is impacting all of us today. Regardless of your role, even as board members, we need to stay proficient in understanding what's happening in AI and how that's impacting our boards of the companies that we're working with or the industries that we sit in, I think whatever we can do to stay ahead and understand the risks and ask the right questions, I think we benefit everybody that we serve in those capacities. Being the host of a podcast called Asking Good Questions, I completely agree with you and I can add nothing more to that. Thank you to Zainoke for joining us. Thanks to our sponsor, Caprice AI. Don't forget to follow us, like, subscribe, basically all those buttons down there on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, pretty much anywhere you can get a podcast. You can also find all of our episodes across multiple seasons at askinggoodquestions.co. Until next time, keep asking good questions.