Ashurst Business Agenda Podcast · 2025-11-24 · 13 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
48 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Bob Walker, an experienced Olympic planner who worked on the Sydney 2000 Games, joins Dan Brown to discuss the mechanics of orchestrating events the scale of Brisbane 2032. The conversation centers on how to approach planning for an event spanning 14 days with hundreds of thousands of attendees across multiple venues. Walker explains the top-down planning methodology: start with the big picture (the schedule and venue locations), then work backward through nine contingency plans, ensuring every element interconnects. The episode draws practical parallels to familiar large-scale events like the AFL Grand Final at the MCG, which successfully moves 100,000 people regularly. A key insight is the necessity of agility - Walker recounts how uniform manufacturing defects discovered during test events required rapid pivoting between multiple manufacturers, illustrating that comprehensive planning cannot anticipate every contingency. The discussion then shifts to First Nations involvement, a critical legacy and risk-management consideration. Walker criticizes previous Olympics (notably Sydney 2000) for limiting Indigenous representation to opening and closing ceremonies while excluding them from volunteer and leadership roles. He advocates for using the years before Brisbane 2032 to build genuine employment and skills pathways for First Nations people. The episode positions this not merely as cultural acknowledgment but as essential to the Games' enduring legacy and organizational success.
You start with the big picture - the 14-day schedule and where people will be located - then work backward through multiple interconnected contingency plans, drawing on expertise from similar large-scale events like the AFL Grand Final at the MCG.
You must be agile and responsive; for example, when volunteer uniforms developed rashes due to a manufacturing defect, the Games had multiple uniform manufacturers so they could quickly switch production without major disruption.
Previous Olympics like Sydney 2000 limited Indigenous representation to ceremonies rather than including them in volunteer and leadership teams; Brisbane 2032 has an opportunity to create genuine employment and skills pathways for First Nations people as part of the Games' enduring legacy.
Bob Walker's risk management methodology learned from the Sydney Olympics was later adapted for COVID-19 response at government level and created a risk assessment tool for the South Australian film sector that attracted 300 jobs and became the industry's most-downloaded risk tool globally.
The issues are broadly aligned with more complexity at scale, and experience from managing 100,000-person events like the AFL Grand Final provides valuable transferable planning expertise.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains a few genuinely useful insights - notably the principle of breaking large-scale planning into interconnected pieces and the anecdote about uniform manufacturing failures forcing agility. However, the conversation is heavily padded with soft questions, affirmations, and circular discussion about legacy and First Nations involvement without concrete actionable takeaways. Much of the substantive ground is covered in the first third; the remainder retreads the same themes.
you start at the big picture. And you drop it down. And then you, uh, know everything has to interconnect at some point and so that's why it takes so long.
So you've got to have that agility to be able to respond and say, right, they're out and they're in. And then you look back at that and you go, well, thankfully we didn't have just one manufacturer
The core ideas - that planning must be hierarchical, contingencies matter, and agility trumps perfection - are well-established in project management and have been articulated countless times across enterprise podcasts and literature. The emphasis on First Nations inclusion is important but presented as aspirational rather than original thinking; no novel frameworks or counterintuitive claims differentiate this from standard corporate values-alignment rhetoric.
you can't plan for every contingency. So stuff will happen. So you have to, you have to be agile in your approach.
this should be something that we should all be really jumping behind and saying, all right, how do we actually use the Brisbane Games as a catalyst
Bob Walker is a credible practitioner with direct experience delivering the Sydney 2000 Olympics, Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Rugby World Cup, and COVID-19 government risk planning - substantive operational credentials that exceed typical podcast thought-leaders. However, the conversation does not fully leverage his depth; the host rarely pushes Walker into detailed case study territory, limiting the caliber's full realization.
I went on from that to the Rugby World cup to um, Salt Lake City Winter Olympics and to a couple of other events.
I did, uh, did a fair bit of that and I was really bringing to fore all of that risk management skill that I learned during the Olympics
The episode includes a few concrete examples (Sydney Olympics uniforms, South Australian Film Authority risk tool generating 300 jobs, film sector download adoption), but they are sparse and underdeveloped. Most claims remain abstract: discussion of 100,000 vs. 500,000 attendee planning, First Nations involvement, and legacy are stated in generalities without numbers, timelines, or measurable outcomes. The host does not press for specifics.
We developed a risk assessment tool. Uh, that particular tool we then helped the authority used to actually undertake a risk assessment for a production which then actually attracted the funding because the risk assessment had been done and created something like 300 jobs in South Australia
we've got people that are really well skilled in bringing 100,000 people into and out of a, uh, big metropolitan city. Regularly
The host asks competent opening questions and manages transitions smoothly, but rarely pushes back or probe beyond surface-level answers. Questions are often rhetorical or affirming rather than challenging; follow-ups are minimal. The host explicitly praises Walker near the end without extracting deeper learnings, and both speakers frequently use filler language ('uh,' 'you know,' 'I think') without editing tension. Opportunities to explore contradictions or demand specifics are missed.
is the order of magnitude around the planning so much different when you're looking at 100,000 versus 500,000 or fundamentally are, ah, the issues broadly aligned?
I feel like I need to apologize, Bob, because at the outset what I should have done was introduced you as the absolute, undisputed world champion of risk management.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
How do you plan for the unexpected and build a Games that leaves more than memories behind? In Part 2 of this two-part episode, Andrew McCormack, partner in Ashurst's Project and Energy Transition Team and lead of the Brisbane 2032 working group, returns to the conversation between Ashurst's global co-head of energy, Dan Brown, and Olympic risk expert Bob Walker. The discussion moves beyond operational logistics to focus on legacy, culture, and leadership. Bob reflects on the importance of agility in planning, drawing on real-world examples from the Sydney Olympics and other major events. He also speaks candidly about the need for meaningful First Nations engagement, not only in ceremonies, but across volunteer programs, leadership teams, and long-term planning. With Brisbane 2032 on the horizon, this is a moment to get inclusion right and deliver genuine, community-driven outcomes. This podcast contains general information and does not constitute legal advice. Ashurst is not a sponsor, licensee, or promotional partner of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, the Olympic movement, nor any Olympic body, event, team, or athlete.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Hello and um, welcome to Ashurst's Business Agenda podcast. My name is Andrew McCormack and I'm a partner in Ashurst's Project and Energy Transition Team. It's with great pleasure that I bring you this series of bite sized episodes revisiting key talking points from our 2032 and um, beyond podcast series. In these special episodes, we'll take a detailed look at a range of important issues that are relevant to the Queensland Government's recently unveiled, um, plans, um, for venues, infrastructure and transport solutions for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games. Welcome to part two of our episode on lessons in leadership and risk management for international sporting events. In today's episode, we explore the complexity of planning for an event on the scale of the Brisbane 2032. Olympic and Paralympic Games expert Bob Walker shares his experience in breaking down the big picture into interconnected plans, drawing on lessons from major events like the Sydney Olympics and the AFL Grand Final. One key takeaway from Bob's conversation with Asher's partner, Dan Brown is the importance of agility and planning, recognizing that no matter how comprehensive your contingencies, unexpected challenges will always arise. We will also delve into the critical role of first nations involvement, reflecting on the need for genuine engagement and representation, not just ceremonies, but throughout the leadership and delivery of the Games. As we approach Brisbane 2032, this commitment to inclusion and legacy is more important than ever, given this unique opportunity to create lasting benefits for communities across Australia. So without further ado, let's get back to our conversation with Dan and Bob.
Speaker B: What does that planning look like? Like, where do you start? How do you even begin to contemplate drafting a single plan, let alone, I think you mentioned nine contingency plans.
Speaker C: So you start at the big picture.
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker C: And you drop it down.
Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker C: And then you, uh, know everything has to interconnect at some point and so that's why it takes so long. So if you start with a big picture that says we have 12 days of events, during those 12 days we're going to have all 14 days. We're going to have people here, here and here. We know that because that's the schedule. Then start winding it back from there.
Speaker B: Yep, yep. Uh, yeah, right.
Speaker C: You have to also remember that it's not like we haven't, we're not doing this already. So as you say, the MCG and the Grand Final there is a great example. So we've got people that are really well skilled in bringing 100,000 people into and out of a, uh, big metropolitan city. Regularly for those sorts of events. Right, yeah. Uh, and we've got. And you've got Melbourne carp and around the country. And so it's about tapping into those networks, the planning that sits below that, that's happening now. Those people are all sort of pulled up into assisting in that planning.
Speaker B: Yeah. So maybe this is just my simple mind, but is the order of magnitude around the planning so much different when you're looking at 100,000 versus 500,000 or fundamentally are, ah, the issues broadly aligned?
Speaker C: Broadly aligned, yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: There's a bit more complexity to it.
Speaker B: Yeah. Right.
Speaker C: Uh, uh, but broadly. You can roll that up.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And so I guess turning to things that are probably not so positive, what will unravel the Olympics? What will unravel the best Games ever type moniker that we would. We know will. I was going to say we hope, but we know will be ascribed to the Brisbane Olympics. From a risk perspective or a risk perspective, what are the issues that might unravel that or make the Games not so great an outcome for people?
Speaker C: So I think it is fair to say that you can't plan for every contingency.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: So stuff will happen.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: So you have to, you have to be agile in your approach. And I can remember really early on in the piece, in the testing, uh, and so in some of the test events and the volunteers for the test events picked up their uniforms, gone home and they'd come back the next day in their uniform and by the end of that day they all had rashes because, oh, no, there was something wrong in the manufacturing process, that particular component of the uniform. So, yeah, don't plan for that.
Speaker B: No.
Speaker C: So you have to be able. So you've got to have that agility to be able to respond and say, right, they're out and they're in. And then you look back at that and you go, well, thankfully we didn't have just one manufacturer of the, uh, forms. We looked at our continuity or our contingency and said, but we need to have a couple of manufacturers. And so that was pulled and the other stuff was put in.
Speaker B: So, look, I guess turning to something that's a little more serious for a moment, but I think is absolutely fundamental to the success of any Olympics, but especially the Brisbane Olympics, is the involvement of the first nations people. Um, I know it's something that you're really passionate about. It's something that our business, our firm here at Ashes, we're super passionate about it. And I know that there's been criticism of other Games in The past around perhaps insensitivity or overlooking the first nations people. And I guess potentially it is a risk piece, but. But it's actually more fundamental piece around acknowledgement, involvement and respect. Like what sorts of things that we really need to focus on to ensure that this super important and fundamental aspect of our Australian culture and society is acknowledged and respected in the right way.
Speaker C: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Uh, m. My view was that in Sydney at that particular time, the community had a particular view and our first nations people were involved in the opening ceremony and the closing ceremony. But what stood out for me was that. So then I didn't see any Indigenous faces in the volunteers or I didn't see any Indigenous faces in the leadership teams. And I think that has to change. Right. And here's our opportunity to say, we've got a number of years now. Let's set a program up that is going to actually do that. You know, this. This should be something that we should all be really jumping behind and saying, all right, how do we. How do we as a firm, when we know, as a firm we're very committed to that, but as a nation, how do we actually use the Brisbane Games as a catalyst to actually help elevate and give our first nations people a voice by giving, you know, employment.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: And skills. And there's a. There's a big enough period of time now that we could do that.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess it really ties back into that conversation we had a little earlier on, uh, the podcast, which was the Games have to be more than just that couple of weeks, um, period. It has to be about an enduring legacy, primarily for the immediate community, um, and the nation, but also more broadly for everybody that's touched by the Olympics. And so it seems to me to be a natural part of that legacy that we honour and respect our first nations people, uh, in the most appropriate way, given the significance and importance of the Games.
Speaker C: I think so. And I think it creates a great opportunity for us to think about creative ways of actually doing that.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, when I was doing some of the background research around the Olympics and, um, looking for content to drive the podcasts, I was really heartened to see public announcements and pronouncements by the state of Queensland acknowledging the important role of first nations people. Um, and look, that's a small step, but the rubber needs to hit the road, I guess, and I'm going to be really excited to see how that unfolds.
Speaker C: Yeah. And look, and hopefully as a firm, we get the opportunity to partner in that.
Speaker B: Yeah, that'd be amazing if we could do that, isn't it?
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B: So Bob, we've been talking a little bit today around the Olympics not just being a two week ordeal, but it's really about a legacy piece. And I imagine during that process of helping to deliver the 2000 Olympics, notwithstanding the depth and breadth of your experience and knowledge, you would have actually learned a great deal. But from a, uh, again from that legacy perspective, what are some of the learnings, what are some of the tools that you took away from the Olympics that you've been able to implement moving forward that have benefited others outside of that pure games delivery environment?
Speaker C: Yeah, that's really interesting Dan, because I think you're right. I mean that legacy is not just about the Olympic Games and the, and the infrastructure and the people that came to see it, but it's about the people that put it on and the people that had the opportunity to actually work in those games. And so for me, you know, it was almost like the Olympic Games of risk management for me. Uh, and it's continued to give back to me throughout my career. So you know, I went on from that to the Rugby World cup to um, Salt Lake City Winter Olympics and to a couple of other events. And core as to what it is that I do in my career has still been fundamentally coming back to understanding risk and how to actually break it apart into manageable pieces so that organizations and people can understand it and then manage it and move forward. And I think probably the most recent case of that for me would be obviously we've got this thing called COVID 19. And certainly in early um, 2020 that became, became, that became a thing. And I got very seriously involved in um, some risk planning around Covid at a government level. So I did, I uh, did a fair bit of that and I was really bringing to fore all of that risk management skill that I learned during the Olympics and has stayed with me right throughout my career. Because risk is about being able to get on with and get back to where you need to be safely. And with the South Australian Film Authority, they came and spoke to me about trying to get the film sector in South Australia up and running again in order to create employment at the back end. As our first wave of COVID started to die down, so we applied a risk management approach. We developed a risk assessment tool. Uh, that particular tool we then helped the authority used to actually undertake a risk assessment for a production which then actually attracted the funding because the risk assessment had been done and created something like 300 jobs in South Australia for the filming of that particular thing. When the entire film sector globally had been shut down, our tool was then, you know, that particular tool, uh, then became the largest download for a risk assessment tool in the film sector anywhere at that time. And it was, you know, it's being continues to be used, I suppose, to look at the issue around Covid, understand the risks and develop a mitigation plan and a Covid safe plan out of the back of that. So risk management continues to give.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. And it's all done from South Australia, you know, that's amazing. And impacted the global, um, film industry. Yeah. But look, I feel like I need to apologize, Bob, because at the outset what I should have done was introduced you as the absolute, undisputed world champion of risk management.
Speaker C: I'll know for next time.
Speaker A: Um, thank you for joining us for the second part of this episode from our special series on leadership and risk management in hosting world class international sporting events. It's clear that lessons from previous events like the Sydney Olympics continue to resonate, reminding us that while meticulous planning is essential, true success lies in our ability to adapt, respond and learn from the unexpected. Perhaps most importantly, this discussion underscores the significance of genuine first nations involvement, not just as a symbolic gesture, but as a fundamental part of the game's leadership delivery and enduring legacy. Thank you again to Bob Walker for sharing his insights and to all of you for listening to hear other Business Agenda episodes, including full episodes of 2032 and beyond. You'll find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, feel free to subscribe to Asha's Business Agenda and to leave us a rating or review. But for now, thank you for listening and goodbye. This podcast contains general information and does not constitute legal advice. Ashurst is not a sponsor, licensee or promotional partner of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, the Olympic Movement, nor any Olympic body, event, team or athlete. Nothing in this podcast is intended to suggest any such sponsorship, license or promotional affiliation.
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