Ashurst Business Agenda Podcast · 2025-11-09 · 20 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
49 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Bob Walker draws on his firsthand experience managing emergency preparedness and crisis risk for Sydney 2000 to extract lessons applicable to Brisbane 2032. At its core, Walker argues that Olympic delivery is fundamentally about people - both those putting on the Games and those attending - and that effective risk management ensures attendees have positive experiences while operations stay on track. He reflects on Sandy Holloway's leadership approach at SOCOG, which emphasized knowing staff by name and creating inclusive environments that drove unified commitment. Walker addresses how the world has changed since 2000 - citing post-9/11 security postures, technological shifts, and evolving expectations - while emphasizing that people's desire to be part of something meaningful remains constant. He outlines practical risk frameworks: understanding delivery expectations, identifying resource and infrastructure needs, assessing risks, implementing controls, and maintaining contingency plans. Walker illustrates the scale with the Sydney Games' peak day of 500,000 people moving through venues simultaneously, requiring nine layers of contingency planning and spectator services strategies. For Brisbane, he emphasizes keeping infrastructure future-proofed as enduring legacy rather than white elephants, understanding the geographic spread of venues beyond the host city, and remaining flexible as enabling technologies continue to evolve.
The largest crowd movement was approximately 500,000 people in a single precinct during venue changeovers, managed through nine layers of contingency planning, public transport coordination, and visible spectator services staff strategically positioned to engage waiting crowds and maintain satisfaction.
The 2001 attacks permanently shifted the security posture at subsequent Olympic Games like Salt Lake City 2002, and all countries now have mature security mechanisms and international cooperation protocols in place that will never be fully retreated from.
Holloway was a people-focused leader who walked the planning floor on Fridays knowing staff by name, understanding their family situations, and creating an inclusive culture well before its time - this approach of knowing and trusting your people while setting direction became foundational to Walker's own practice.
Sydney's qualifying events and test events were distributed across the country (e.g., Bruce Stadium in Canberra), spreading infrastructure uplift and venue benefits geographically rather than concentrating them in one city, reducing the risk of white elephant venues in the host city.
Understand delivery expectations and venue locations, work backward to assess resource and infrastructure commitments, identify risks and controls, maintain contingency plans (plan B), and remain flexible since enabling technology may not yet be developed - keep people around you who understand these pieces intimately.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode delivers some practical insights on crowd management, risk frameworks, and leadership principles (e.g., people-centered planning, nine layers of contingency, half-million person logistics), but much of the content is generic or repeated. Substantial portions consist of throat-clearing questions, confirmatory statements ('Yeah, yeah, yeah'), and circularity around 'people are at the center' - which is restated multiple times without new substance. For a B2B operator, the actionable takeaways are thin relative to runtime.
So the actual spread of infrastructure uplift was not just to the host city, but actually out further.
There was nine layers of contingency planning and testing for all of the events, um, and all of the venues in the lead up to actually hosting the game.
The core insights - people-centered leadership, risk frameworks, succession planning - are well-established management principles. The Sandy Holloway example is concrete but presented as inspirational rather than revealing a novel insight. The discussion of post-9/11 security changes and technology shifts is surface-level observation rather than contrarian or first-principles thinking. No counterintuitive claims or fresh frameworks emerge; instead, the episode validates conventional wisdom about large events.
It's about knowing your people and trusting your people. That's setting the right direction and giving them some latitude to be able to do that.
You've got technology that's changed, you've got people's expectations have changed. There's a whole range of things that have changed for us as a nation.
Bob Walker has genuine operational experience leading risk and emergency preparedness for Sydney 2000 Olympics - a substantial, relevant credential. However, the podcast format and editing make him a secondary voice; Dan Brown (the Ashurst partner) drives most of the conversation, and Walker is positioned more as a retrospective commentator than an active practitioner. He has done the work at scale, which is valuable, but his relevance to Brisbane 2032 is advisory rather than direct operational involvement.
Bob provides a number of key insights on lessons learned from past Olympics in successful leadership and risk management and for what's ahead for Brisbane 2032.
I was part of a small boutique consultancy in Sydney and we had carved out a bit of a niche for ourselves in emergency management, emergency preparedness, crisis management.
The episode includes concrete data points - half a million people at peak movement, nine layers of contingency planning, Bruce Stadium in Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne venue examples - but these are sparse relative to the runtime. Many claims remain vague: 'significant change,' 'whole range of things,' 'Miranda path' (unclear term), technology 'not even developed yet.' The listener learns the scale of Sydney 2000 crowds but receives minimal specifics on actual contingency triggers, cost-benefit frameworks, or measurable outcomes from past risk mitigation.
There was effectively half a million people in that precinct either coming out of a venue or going into a venue.
There was nine layers of contingency planning and testing for all of the events, um, and all of the venues in the lead up to actually hosting the game.
Dan Brown asks reasonable opening questions but rarely pushes back, challenge, or probe deeply. The conversation is affirmative - mostly confirmatory 'yeah, yeah' responses and open-ended prompts that allow Walker to meander. When Walker uses vague terms ('Miranda path,' can't remember exact details), there is no follow-up for clarity. The host avoids productive disagreement or skeptical inquiry; instead, the tone is reverential and deferential, typical of a corporate podcast serving internal/marketing purposes rather than rigorous investigation.
Yeah, yeah. And it is. And you know, you and I had spoken about this before, but, you know, my belief is that the Games are really all about the people.
Yeah, right. And like, I guess for the benefit of our listeners, when you reflect on the role that you did in Sydney, like what sort of numbers of people are we talking about on a daily basis having to be successfully moved around Sydney, um, or a venue?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
What does it take to plan and deliver a safe, people-first Olympic Games in today's fast-changing world? In Part 1 of this two-part episode, Andrew McCormack, partner in Ashurst's Project and Energy Transition Team, revisits a standout conversation from the 2032 and Beyond podcast series. Ashurst's global co-head of energy, Dan Brown, sits down with Bob Walker, who played a key leadership role in crisis and risk management for the Sydney 2000 Olympics, to explore the practical realities behind delivering one of the world's largest and most complex events. The discussion covers the core elements of successful Olympic risk management, from large-scale crowd planning and emergency preparedness to leadership that places people at the centre. Bob reflects on the value of human connection, strong culture, and flexible contingency planning in delivering not just a safe Games, but an experience that resonates with communities long after the final event. This podcast contains general information and does not constitute legal advice.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Ashurst's Business Agenda podcast. My name is Andrew McCormack and I'm a partner in Ashurst's project and Energy Transition team. It's with great pleasure that I bring you this series of bite sized episodes revisiting key talking points from our, uh, 2032 and beyond podcast series. In these special episodes we'll take a detailed look at a range of important issues that are relevant to the Queensland government's recently unveiled plans for venues, infrastructure and transport solutions for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games. Welcome to part one of a two part episode where we look back at our previous discussion on the lessons in leadership and risk management for hosting world class international sporting events. As Australia prepares For the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, lessons from previous Games are uh, more relevant than ever. From people centered planning and risk management to legacy and the involvement of first nations communities, these themes continue to shape how we approach the challenges and opportunities ahead. In this episode you'll hear directly from someone who's been there before. Asha's partner Dan Brown speaks to expert Bob uh Walker, who helped lead the crisis risk and emergency preparedness for the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Bob provides a number of key insights on lessons learned from past Olympics in successful leadership and risk management and for what's ahead for Brisbane 2032. Let's hear from Dan and Bob.
Speaker B: And so when I take away the high profile athletes, when I take away the massive stadia and infrastructure that needs to be built, when I take away the really glitzy and glamorous, um, and well choreographed opening and closing ceremonies, for me I feel like the Olympics is really just about people, people, people, people, um, as Brene Brown says. But I know that you've got a really rich and colorful history supporting Olympic Games and also other global Games, but maybe that's a good place to start. From the outset really is just. How did you get involved in the 2000 Olympics in Sydney?
Speaker C: Thanks Dan. So how did I get involved? Sometimes I, uh, always the team that was involved. We still ask ourselves that question. I was part of a small boutique consultancy in Sydney and we had carved out a bit of a niche for ourselves in emergency management, emergency preparedness, crisis management. And we'd been working with the education departments and TAFEs and universities, uh, and some venues. And we started to see, as the infrastructure build for Sydney started to occur because Sydney had won the Games, the venues started to pop up and we started to get more involved in helping them think through their emergency response processes. And then training their staff up. And it just naturally evolved. And then an opportunity came up for us to get significantly involved with, uh, Sydney, uh, in the form of a whole range of different, um, what I'd say, risk management activities.
Speaker B: And I guess for the benefit of our listeners, when we talk about risk management and risk management activities at its core, what does that mean practically?
Speaker C: Yeah. Uh, what a great question. For me, risk is about, you know, what is it that we're trying to do? In this case, it was to put on a massive event. What are all thinking through? What are all of those things that could not go to plan and trying to actually stop that in that planning process and sort of mitigate it there, or at least having some response mechanism in place to correct it if whatever it was, was to get off track. So at risk. And it's essence is now everything we do, we take some level of risk. It's about making sure that we understand what that risk is and that we're prepared to take that risk and making sure that we've got the right level of control in place where we can.
Speaker B: Yeah. And I imagine there's a whole bunch of reasons why we need to do those risk assessments and put in place those risk management arrangements. But would it be fair to say that in some ways, when we distill this down to its most simple. I use that word flippantly, actually, in the context of delivering an Olympic Games, if we distill that down into a number of simple concepts, I imagine really a lot of this risk management piece is all about ensuring that everybody who attends or participates in those Games has, um, an amazing experience. Again, that people piece. Right. Like, I imagine we can boil it down to that.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is. And you know, you and I had spoken about this before, but, you know, my belief is that the Games are really all about the people. They're put on by people for people and for the community so that we. So that we can understand it. The issue with that is that when you have people involved in a process, there's always. There's always an element that might not go to plan.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: And so we have to plan for that bit. Right?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: And so that's what. That's the essence of risk and safety management.
Speaker B: Yeah, that's actually a really interesting juxtaposition, isn't it? Because, um, at the end of the day, you're delivering something for people, by the people, but, uh, by having people involved in that process, things don't go to plan.
Speaker C: Um, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I imagine it must have at times when you're delivering those Games actually been challenging to maintain focus or keep line of sight on the fact that we need to put the people at the center of every choice decision we make around this because it's ultimately an experiential element, isn't it, the game?
Speaker C: Um, m most certainly. And I would say that that was front of mind for everybody that was involved in those Games, whether you were employed in one of the uh, venues or employed by SOCOG to actually deliver something or whether you were a volunteer. We have to remember at a, at an Olympic Games you have the largest volunteer workforce force that ever gets assembled, uh, to come together for two weeks of, of the, of the Games and then for the Paralympic Games too. And we should, we should never forget that they cross over the, over the two. And so that's monumental. Ah, that's a lot of people, right?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker C: And so it takes good leadership and, and to make sure that it is front of mind. I always remember, um, so Sandy Holloway, who was the chief executive officer for socog, was a real people person and you know, I learned that lesson from him 20 odd years ago that I had absolutely maintained front and center in my practice and uh, how I've managed going forward. It's about knowing your people and trusting your people. That's setting the right direction and giving them some latitude to be able to do that. Sandy used to walk the floor on a Friday in that main building where, where all of the planning for the most amazing Games was, uh, occurring with some of the smartest people in the world that had come together to do it. And he would know them by name, he would know what their families were up to and he just created a culture and an environment that was inclusive well before its time that just drove everybody on that singular path to do the best they could do for those Games.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's an immense burden, but also privilege in some ways, isn't it, to, to have that role and to be able to discharge that role in a way where you're effectively taking everybody along for the journey because you have to. Right.
Speaker C: And such an amazing M environment because we hadn't done it for such a long time. Melbourne was the Games before it was the biggest, biggest infrastructure build in the country. It was the, as I said, big know, the biggest volunteer workforce coming together. It was the biggest international workforce coming together to pull us together. And Sandy and his team were actually making sure all those pieces fit. I'm still in awe.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I Think that's a really important distinction around. It was, I think it was 56. We had the Melbourne Olympics, 2000, we get to Sydney Olympics. The world had changed substantially, ah, in that period of time. And not just the world, but Australia as a growing nation, um, had changed fundamentally. And that's probably a nice lead into. My next question for you is how has the world changed since Sydney? How is it likely to change? It's like a double barrel question. Sorry. Um, but effectively what I'm trying to understand is from a risk perspective, from the core of the work that you do, how is that going to impact the ability to deliver the Olympics here in Brisbane in terms of the way that the world has changed? And I guess the last 18 months has proved things can happen, um, at the drop of a hat. But yeah, how will that affect the ability to deliver the Games?
Speaker C: So thanks for the, for the big questions. So I would say two things. So it certainly changed almost immediately. We know that in 2001 there was a, an event in America that changed the world forever. So 9, 11. And so we look to Salt Lake City Games, where I was part of that following year. The security posture had just changed considerably. So we'll never retreat back from that posture. That posture is there and there is a very mature mechanism in place now that all countries have, uh, have an understanding of what that needs to look like and how they cooperate on that. And so that's probably out of my remit to really talk about as well. But so, uh, there is that security posture that's there, I think. You know, you've got technology that's changed, you've got people's expectations have changed. There's a whole range of things that have changed for us as a nation. From 2000 to, when Brisbane puts it on, the one thing that hasn't changed too much is the people. Yeah, so people are still people and they want to come along and they want to be part of something. They want to be engaged and they want to own a piece of it. And whether that's by volunteering or whether that's by being a spectator or just being proud that it's in their state or in their country, everyone has a level of wanting to be involved in the Games. And so, yes, there's been some significant change and there's been some cultural change in Australia as well. But at the heart of that still is people. And so that still means that our, uh, our risk identification and assessment process fundamentally has matured, but is still there and designed to help people enjoy The Games and for the Games to go
Speaker B: on, fundamentally, the thing that hasn't changed is that, uh, the Games are all about the people. And while we might be spending more time in our phones than we did back in 2000 and using a whole lot of different technology, the other thing that I guess needs to be balance, balance with that is potentially, at first blush, there's this overarching desire to go, all right, we just need to build and deliver the infrastructure in order to have the best Games ever and the best experience ever. But in fact, like, how do we actually go about in a very mindful way of delivering the best Olympics ever, uh, but ensuring that the work that's done, the infrastructure that's developed is an enduring legacy, that doesn't become a white elephant, that doesn't become mothballed, and that actually continues to add value for future, perhaps generations off the back of that Olympic success. Because I imagine from, even from a risk management perspective around things like redundancy, that's got to be a really tough role for you guys to be able to think about all those things.
Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of that sits back in the business case that each of the countries and host cities put together to be able to demonstrate there's that cost benefit analysis in actually being the host to what does that deliver for, for our community, uh, from a Games perspective, what's the enduring legacy that it delivers? And I'm sure that government would have had that front and center, uh, on their mind as to what it is. And if we, you know, if we look to Sydney and look to the stadia that are, that are there now, although 20 years on, there's been some talk in Sydney about demolishing that stadium. It's had its time and, and gone forward. But all of the stadia that were developed at that time and for Sydney, the Games were not just hosted in Sydney. There were all the qualifying, uh, events and all the test events were around the country. So the actual spread of infrastructure uplift was not just to the host city, but actually out further. So, and I can remember going to. It was Bruce Stadium in those days in Canberra, home of the Raider. Yeah, exactly right. So it did, it actually was a lot further than just, uh, that city.
Speaker B: Thinking about the role that you had in Sydney and having to think about all of those things around risk, but also future proofing, um, a lot of the processes, procedures, and also infrastructure that was built. Let's fast forward to the Brisbane experience. Pretend for a moment that you know you're leading the risk piece on that. What, what are the sorts of considerations that are going to be front of mind? Like, uh, it's like, I guess in some ways it's the old saying, you know, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time. But what are some of the priorities, what would be some of the priorities for you if you were leading the charge on the risk piece around delivering the Brisbane Olympics?
Speaker C: Wow, that is a big question. But, uh, it's, it's, it's fun. I suppose fundamentally you need to understand what, what the expectation is around delivery, what are we delivering and where, and then winding that back as to understanding what's the resource and resource infrastructure commitments for those, what are the issues and, or risks that sit around those, how do we control that? And always what's our plan B?
Speaker B: Yep.
Speaker C: Uh, and when you've got, you know, you're so far out that actually nothing is set in stone and you know, so there is absolutely going to be a Miranda path, uh, through that process of bringing together the right level of infrastructure, the right level of technology. I would even say that the technology that's going to be used in Brisbane is not even developed yet. So I think you've got to keep yourself open, know what the big pieces are, know how they connect together, know what the risk is if they don't connect together and get good people around you that actually understand that intimately and can help you bring it together.
Speaker B: Yeah, right. And like, I guess for the benefit of our listeners, when you reflect on the role that you did in Sydney, like what sort of numbers of people are we talking about on a daily basis having to be successfully moved around Sydney, um, or a venue? Like what, what's the magnitude?
Speaker C: So I think from memory, and you know, it's a while ago, the largest day, the largest people movement, if you like, was, uh. There was one day when the Sydney, uh, Olympic, um. Gee, I can't remember. The precinct, um, was um, full. So the stadium was full for the morning session. Um, the showgrounds and the Diamond Pavilions as they were called, they were full. So everything was full. And there was a changeover. And uh, during that changeover there was effectively half a million people in that precinct either coming out of a venue or going into a venue. And so, uh, you have to remember this public transport has to bring those people in and take those people out. And it was just amazing. And the reality is if you put half a million people together, somebody's going to die. Yeah, it's just the law of averages. You've Got so many people together, not from any nefarious means and obvious. And they did. And so you've got to, you know, you're thinking through that process about by bringing 500,000 people together, what's going to happen? What do I need to be prepared for our emergency services? And lots of layers of planning. There was nine layers of contingency planning and testing for all of the events, um, and all of the venues in the lead up to actually hosting the game. So there's a lot of preparation around that stuff. 500,000 people is a lot of people.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker C: And when you think about it, there is going to be queues and there are going to be going to be long queues while you're waiting to get on a bus or waiting to get onto a train. So part of the control strategy is making sure that you have, um, spectator services people or visitor interaction type people, people with big personalities standing out the front, clearly visible in their Olympic uniform, engaging with people and keeping them happy and all of those sorts of things to take their mind off the fact that they might be standing in that line for an hour. If you think about risk management, you then say, all right, so we know that because we know the capacities of our venues, we know the scheduling, we know that's going to happen. All right, what do we need to do? What are the plans in place? So that's the risk management process.
Speaker A: Yeah, we'll leave part one there, having already heard some really interesting insights from Bob on risk management around crowds and people centered planning. The lessons from Sydney and beyond remind us that while the world changes, certain core values and challenges still endure. Make sure you tune in for part two of this episode to hear more from Bob and Dan about the enduring legacy and genuine first nations involvement which remain at the heart of what will make the 2032 Games a success. Thank you for listening to Ashurst Business Agenda and this episode in our, uh, 2032 and beyond miniseries. In the meantime, to hear other Business Agenda episodes, including full episodes of 2032 and beyond, you'll find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. While you're there, feel free to subscribe to Asha's Business Agenda and leave us a rating or a review. But for now, thanks for listening and goodbye. This podcast contains general information and does not constitute legal advice. Ashurst is not a sponsor, licensee or promotional partner of the Brisbane 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games, the Olympic Movement, nor any Olympic body, event, team or athlete. Nothing in this podcast is intended to suggest any such sponsorship license or promotional affiliation.
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