Episode 40: £25 cookies, Dead algorithms & Why the cake world deserves a Michelin star

Speaker A: Welcome to the Adventures in Cakeland podcast. I'm, um, your host, Yvonne, and this is the podcast where we talk about the ups and downs of cake life, running a business, exploring the latest cake trends, and hearing authentic stories from other cake business owners. I really hope you enjoy today's episode. So welcome to another episode of the Adventures in Cakeland podcast. So how are you and how is business? So in this month's episode, first of all, before I go there, I just want to remind everybody that's listening in, um, that these episodes go out once a month and they are the first Tuesday of every month. Just in case you're thinking, Yvonne, you're a bit late. It's because it's the first Tuesday. So I'm trying to stick to that schedule and it seems to work for me regarding how I'm working in the business, etc. So if you're thinking of it a little bit late, I'm not. It's just the first Tuesday. It did used to be the last Tuesday, but I just switched things up because we have free will and we can do whatever we want. So in this month's episode, it was going to be a guest episode, but life be life in. So we've had to reschedule. My guests couldn't make it. So hopefully that can go ahead for the next, um, episode coming soon. So what I thought I'd do, this will just be a bit of a rambling episode. We're going to be talking about lots of different things, things that I've seen trending. I'm just going to merge it into one episode, ideas that I've had and what I've been up to, the business. So let's start there. So business wise, things are slowly starting to pick up, which is lovely, really. I mean, like I said in previous episodes, I only sort of want to have a quote of maybe two to three orders a week, certainly no more than that. Um, that's all I can manage. But I've got, um, some corporate cupcake order coming up and then I've had some celebration cake orders and I also brought back a brushstroke effect cake that I had me in a chokehold in like 2016, 20 painting. I used to love this effect so much and one of my friends, I, uh, made a cake for, I think it was all the way back in 2016 where I did a cake with this brushstroke effect and it had macarons on it, strawberries. And she wanted a cake for, um, a friend of hers, a colleague, and she wanted the same effect, but we thought I'd mix it up this time so it wasn't exactly the same. And I think the original cake had a drip on it and I didn't want to put a drip on it. Anyway, I made the cake, put it on my Insta and it had such a lovely response. I mean, I know the algorithm is not algorithmic coming at the moment, so the few likes and, um, comments that I did get were really, really positive. So that was really nice. Plus I got a lovely message, some feedback from the recipient of the cake. Recipient of the cake. So, um, that was really lovely. So that was nice to just be able to revisit a trend. And I really like that effect. It's. It didn't stay around for long, but I really like it. So watch this space because I'll definitely be doing more of those star cakes. Also, because things are starting to pick up now, I put a little, um, post a little poll in my Instagram stories on the Adventures in Cakeland Insta page, asking, where do we get our supplies from now? Because obviously things. Last year things were much slower, so I was just getting things ad hoc. But I wanted to know where people were going to because one of my suppliers that I use three, um, hundred sixty pack has closed down now. So I used to get a lot of my boxes and boards and bought from there. And I know I'm not with Jeff Bezos or whatever, I'm not like, you know, we shouldn't always be buying things for Amazon, but sometimes when I, if I've just got one cake to do, I will just get a board in a box delivered with some other stuff from Prime. It's really convenient and it just seems to work. But I was just intrigued where, um, where everybody was getting their, their stock from now and talking about being frugal. I mean, you gotta be living under a rut to not be aware of what's going on in the world, obviously. And we have a war going on. And when I heard this, one of the first things I thought to myself is, everything's just gonna go sky high, isn't it? Here we go again. You know, just as I was starting to feel really optimistic about this year. Ah. Um, things are gonna start to increase. Uh, petrol, obviously. Diesel have gone up. Petrol's gone up. Um, keeping an eye on ingredients in the shops, I went into bookies the other day actually and was looking at the price of the choc and the 2.5 kilo calabar bags. And I know it's a Probably a bit of a bougie brand, but it's one of those products that I use, and I like using it because I like how it works. I feel confident using it sometimes. If I just buy packs of chocolate from the supermarket, if it's for anything that I need to maybe do brushstroke work with, I'm not that confident. So Callebau is one of those. But it, it did look like it. It was not as expensive, I think, uh, was it 42 pounds for a 2.5 kilo bag? I, uh, think I saw some prices in the, like, mid-30s, so I need to go back and check that. But, yeah, that's one thing that we're gonna have to keep an eye on. And in the day job, I did have, um, an email for one of my suppliers. And I thought, here we go. Talking about the fuel, the increase in fuel cost. At this stage, this particular supplier isn't passing the cost onto customers. They can withhold it. But my advice would be that if things are really escalating in your business, then do what you need to and put your prices up if you have to. Hopefully things will settle down. But, yeah, I was. Yeah, optimism just sort of like, went out the window. But hopefully what, this whole thing will just settle down sooner rather than later. Uh, so I've. What else I've been up to in the business is it's been another sit back, kickback month that's come round really quick. And the theme, the theme for this month, April, was citrus. So if you don't know what sit back, kick back is, you need to go back and listen to some other episodes or take a look at my Instagram page. But it's a treat box. But what I've done this time is based it around flavors and ingredients. So this month it was citrus, and I had three flavors. There was lemon and raspberry because I wanted to have like a classic flavor in there. And then we had orange, pistachio and yuzu. And yuzu is a Japanese fruit. It's a cross between, like an orange and a grapefruit. So it's citrusy. It falls into that bracket. And the other flavor was a lime meringue. So think lemon meringue. But we just did it with lime instead. Now, I must say, when I tried the yuzu flavor, I brought it from a company called Sous Chef. So that's where I go to if I need a few sort of unique flavors. Number one, I, I wonder if I'm being too, a bit too far out there. With my flavors for some people. And number two, yeah, when I tried the yuzu, um, it was so strong. When I, I put some drops into some buttercream, I used too much. It was so incredibly strong. It was absolutely disgusting. It was so grim. Into the bin it goes. Because I do have to practice and try these flavors. So I've learned my lesson. And just a few drops of yuzu, but it complements the orange really well. It's not too sweet because the cakes that I make, I just don't like things that are too sugary and too sweet. I want to be able to eat a cake and think, oh, I could eat another one of those. So, yeah, so the yuzu flavor, if you ever get to use it, use it sparingly because it can be quite overpowering. But yes. So, um, I've had a few orders come through. My order book closes this Friday for any orders. But I'm really, really enjoying doing this. I think I'm in the era, like I've said before, my soft girl cake era, but I'm really enjoying the things that I'm making and I'm trying to put things on my feed that I want to make. I did had a cake go out a couple of weeks ago. It was replica of a cake that I did so many years ago with a drip, with some silk flowers, watercolor effect, buttercream around the side. And I made it, but I didn't put it on my feed on my Instagram one, because I forgot to take a picture of it. But two, I don't think I, I don't know whether I would have put a picture up anyway because I'm not sure that was the style of cake that I wanted to do. So it's okay to sort of like curate your Instagram feed for the cakes and orders that you want to do that you want to be known for. So that's what I've been sort of to focus on. But the sit back kickback, I've had a lovely response to that as well. I really liked the flavors, even the yuzu one. And so I'm hoping to get a few more orders for that. But really pleased with how that one's going out. So my next box of that will be in June and I've already thought of what ingredient flavor I'll be, um, doing for that. So have a listen out for that one because that'll be coming in June. So the last thing I want to talk about that happened in April. I don't think I mentioned it in this in the last episode, so excuse me if I did because I'm repeating myself, but I was invited by my old college slash university to speak at a woman's empowerment event. Now this, this like blew me away. This is because, number one, the person that emailed me, I have no communication with them whatsoever. I am in the alumni for the college university that I used to go to. But I don't do anything. I don't go to any events, we don't do any meetups, anything like that. And yeah, so I was absolutely blown away. I was gonna go and because I was in two months old, I don't know whether I can go because it was in the afternoon and I've got to try and get some time off work. But I decided to go and, um, it ended up being canceled. I think it was, it was very short notice. The, the notice that they did give me, very, very short, um, I think less than a week noticed trying to attend this event. So I think they've just got to be a bit organized. But I was so over the m moon with it. I went to Birmingham College of Food Tourism Creative Studies. It used to be called then and now it's University College Birmingham. I've got so much time for this college, this university. This is where I did the, the most of my studies as a chef. I did some cake decorating classes there. I went back to do my degree and my MA there. So it holds a special place in my heart. So the fact that they recognize, they wanted me to go and do a talk there, like I said, it was over the moon. I did. I do, however, think they think I run my business full time as opposed to part time. But regardless, I think it's still a message that we can give to people that you can run your business however you see fit. So if you decide to run it full time, if you're running it part time, it's totally up to you. Because the path to running a business doesn't run smoothly. You can take any direction that you want. So, uh, regardless, I think it's a good message to give and tough to be asked. So let me briefly interrupt this podcast to talk a little bit about AI and what I've been doing around this particular area. So if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that I'm a fan of using AI. I first spoke about this, I think in 2022 and I've been trying to use it in my business since that time. So what I've done over the past few months. I've created a number of custom GPTs. So if you're thinking, Yvonne, what is a custom GPT? It's basically an AI tool that's designed for a specific job. So it just niches down, it just drills down a bit further. So it's trained on your instructions, it will build around your niche and it's just designed to do one task really well. So based around that, I've created three custom GPTs. There's one called the Flavor Lab, there's one social media assistant, and one is a cake design studio. So if you're interested in using, you can find the link in the bio of the page for the Adventures in Cakeland podcast on Instagram and just follow the prompts and then just see if it'll help you. Totally free to use. And if you do like using them, feel free to give me some feedback. But anyway, let's get back to today's episode. So put your headphones on if you're making a cake or decorating or just get a coffee, because this is just going to be a conversation kind of rambling about lots of random things, just like we would do in conversations. So let's start off with the 25 pound cookie. So the 25 pound cookie I came across, it was a garden article that I saw online, so of course I had to tap into it. So it's Cedric Grolet. If you've seen his content, he makes these amazing patisserie. I think he's got a bakery in London that he does those shaped fruit desserts and things like that stuff looks awesome. But obviously he's created a 25 pound cookie that is created uproar with some people and not so much with others. So when I saw this, I thought to myself, here's us as cake makers, not complaining, but struggling to get people to pay our prices. But yet people prepare to try out to pay £25 for cooking. Now, what is that all about? I suppose it's the perception of luxury because I know that I've mentioned it, I think I've mentioned it on previous episode, but there seems to be some kind of luxury baking m boom going on. And primarily these are with brands. So brands are using food as the new currency, basically. So, you know, you can't afford to buy the handbag from Chanel, but you can afford to buy this cookie from Chanel. You can't afford to buy maybe, I don't know, um, a code from you. Mew, whatever. But you can afford to go into the cafe and buy A coffee and a cake for muumu. Take a picture, put it on your Instagram. Do you see where I'm going, going? So it's almost like the brands aren't trading down, but it's letting you tap into a touch of that luxury. And I think this is where the 25 pound cookie comes into it. So it was just really like it, it was like, it's almost like the lipstick effect that I've spoke about in the very first episode of this podcast. But I don't think we should. You know, our prices are our prices and if people want to pay for it, they're going to pay for it. I think that is the message that we've always got to stick with when we have these numerous conversations around Pric in and what people are prepared to pay for. Because it's all about perception, perception of value, perception of brand, perception of, of how that person's going to perceive it. You know, I sell my little sit back kickback boxes and I've tried to create an experience around it. Sometimes they're going to sell, sometimes they're not going to sell. Sometimes people are going to think, oh yeah, the price that you charge is perfect. And some people think, oh no, I'm not going to pay that price. The perception is always with the customer. So I think, you know, when we do have these conversations around pricing, we shouldn't get too stress about it because the perception is always with the customer and if they don't want to pay it, they're not going to pay it. Would I pay £25 for a cookie? I doubt. Depends what it is really. Maybe I would. Maybe I would. If it's something that I thought, oh my God, that looks amazing, I want to try it. Maybe I would. But this luxury boot baking boom is so interesting because there's so many, um, I don't know. And um, if you go onto Instagram, people are just, just going to these lovely bakeries and sharing their almond croissant. And there's a bakery not far from where I work actually called the Early Bird Baker, I think it is. And I keep meaning to go there because they post some stuff online and it looks amazing. It's not cheap, but it looks amazing. So perception is in the eye of the beholder, I would say, because if people can see it as valuable as something they're prepared to pay for, then they're going to pay for it. So don't. We can't continue to be hung upon our prices. We price what we price and if the Customer wants it enough, they will pay for it. And that's it really. So leaning on from my luxury, from my luxury, from the luxury baking boom, apparently that's going on leads me into this little idea, ah, or something that I mentioned in one of Christina's episodes. Because I was thinking about it and I thought about how cool it was, but this was literally been inspired by a program that I watched. So I think it was back, Boy are we now. So we're April, so probably back in February, I think. Or even last year there was a program on Apple, Apple TV called Knife Edge, Chasing Michelin Stars. And basically it's a documentary and it was following chefs who were chasing, keeping or losing Michelin stars. Um, I think it's produced by Gordon Ramsay and the food expert with somebody called Jesse Burgess, who I've seen on Tick Tock. But basically, um, the stress that these chefs put themselves under, uh, to achieve these Michelin stars is no joke, to be fair. And I almost feel to myself, what's the point? I mean, they've stressed them out to the state that some of them, they've had to just give up chefing and just go back to normal life because they just can't maintain it. It's a really interesting documentary if you get a chance to watch it. But when I was watching it, I was thinking to myself, wouldn't that be cool if we had our own cake version of Michelin Star? Now stick with me here. Now I know we have Cake International, Cake International and Bake International where we are judged by our peers. So we have a selection of judges renowned in the industry, and they will judge, uh, decorated decorative styles, um, based on their brief and so on and so forth. So my idea for the Michelin Star is that you have a selection of judges. Now, these aren't the Cake International judges. They have to be totally anonymous. But these have to be people across the industry, not necessarily, like I said, judges, but people who know what they're talking about. So there could be somebody patisserie based, um, cake decorating, experience of cake decorating, experience of baking across the board. Lots of different niches within these judges and what they would do, they would go and test, um, us regarding the whole experience of buying a cake. And I mean, from logging onto the website or your Facebook page, whatever you've got, trying to order a cake, the communication styles, the delivery of the cake or pickup or collection, the taste of the cake, the look of the cake, any aftercare, you would get judged across the whole spectrum of the process. And Then get awarded the Cake World version of Michelin stars. Now I think this is an amazing idea because it would be totally anonymous, but we're not judged by our peers. You're going to be judged sort of by customers. Now I think this would help propel some businesses just like a Michelin star does. If you see a restaurant that's got 1, 2, 3 Michelin stars, you're gonna automatically, automatically assume that it's a place to be, that is the place to go. So why not the same with cakes? Just because you might have 200 followers and make the sickest chocolate brownie there ever has been. But just because you, maybe you've got a small amount of followers, nobody knows. But your customers know, they keep coming back. You might have 10,000 followers and make the most amazing, uh, I don't know, three tier cake and have the most amazing customer service. This just slick five star. Do you see where I'm going with this? So I think it's an amazing idea. Now I'm not going to say that I'm going to do this, I'm going to start this up, but I thought I'd just put it out into the universe. Maybe somebody will snatch it and give it an idea. But I think to be judged by our peers is one thing, like Cake International Bank International, but you know, having something that is more um, relevant to the everyday customer that they can look instantly and see, oh, that must be an excellent business I'm going to order from. That would be, it would be a great idea because as much as we have awards from Cake International, I would argue the fact that yes, it's great to have these awards, but does it necessarily get you more custom? You can take businesses like, I don't know, uh, Brownie. What, what's the name? Brownie Box, Brownie Girl, Finch Bakery. Those types of guys that are doing sort of selection of bakes and brownies and postal absolutely killing it within their niche. And um, but not necessarily doing sort of high end patisserie work. But that doesn't mean that that's any less than like high end patisserie work if the customer values what they deliver as amazing. So that was my idea for like a Michelin star version in the cake world. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Would I ever start, Would I try to start it? Who knows? But I'm just, I just thought I'd just drop this idea. Tell me what you think. Message me. So as we've briefly mentioned about social media and Obviously followers and Follow account. I've been seeing a few posts talking about social media is dead now. Primarily the person that I've seen talking about this was Gary Vaynerchuk, who I've mentioned numerous times on this podcast. But also the head of Instagram has literally said that sharing post personal, personal moments of the feed instead, um, which I find really, really weird. So I'm, I'm just trying to understand what they're trying to say. And I think what it is is that social media is now becoming interest media, not social media. So Follow Account is essentially irrelevant. It doesn't really matter because the algorithm is now based on relevance. So what they're trying to say is people want to see things that they're interested in. They're not automatically going to follow you or like you, uh, your. Just for the sake of it, they want to literally see things that they're basically interested in. I thought it was a really interesting concept, to be honest. And Gary Vaynerchuk gave this example where someone with, with zero followers posted the right content can basically outperform an account with 100k followers. So what he's saying is you've just got to post the right content that people within your area or your niche or your followers want to see. I think that's probably really why, um, sometimes we can struggle with that, can't we? Because sometimes we post things that we want to post as opposed to things that customers want to post. Because I can imagine if I went onto my cake and cupcakery page and I started posting lots of um, baking content and recipes and things like that, I reckon that would excel my followers. And Mike, I think my, my um, my followers would really like that kind of content. Excuse me, but that's not what my account's all about. And so I've been seeing this more and more because I think it's a, for a little bit of a fallout from using AI and they want to see, see more authenticity. I can never say that word. But you know what I'm trying to say, they're trying to see more of that kind of content. So I thought it was really interesting. And even when we post, you know, when I've been posting cakes, I focus so much on getting the perfect light and the perfect shot. I, um, feel like I'm gonna have to start saying that this is not. There's no AI in this p. There's no AI used for it, even though I'm a fan of it. But, but can you see where I'm going There's a fine line, isn't there, between how we use AI? I like to use it for productivity and help me run my business and speed things up as opposed to substituting content with AI. So interest is what people want to see. That's why there's a bit of a narrative going around to say social media is dead. And this is going to be really interesting to see how this plays out because you could have, like I said, 200 followers post once and have a viral post and then end up having tons of followers and likes. So we're gonna have to keep an eye on this and see and it's more than likely something that we're gonna have to adapt to, adjust to again. But it's pretty exhausting. But, um, but yeah, but that's one of the things that I've seen trending. So as we're talking about what's trending I have seen. So this obviously was in the month of March. What has been trending is Claude AI is taking over from ChatGPT now. Victoria Chat Claude AI is another AI model. It's a bit like Gemini, it's a bit like co pilot Perplexity, all these AI models. It's another model now. I've been using um, Claude AI since last year. I put it on my phone. But recently there was a bit of a hoo ha around Chat GPT and their ethics, around what they will allow their, their system to be used for. Um, and some people were pushing back because they didn't like the fact that, uh, the U.S. government asked them to do something and Claude AI said they weren't going to do it. Chachi PT said they were going to do it. So there was some pushback on that. So people have like abandoned Chat GPT, gone to Claude. Now I must admit I've still got both on my phone. I'm still using both because I've got so much stuff that I've used, um, for Chat GPT. You can have things moved over, over for Claude. But at this moment I do quite like using both because they both come back with different kind of responses. So if you do have Claude in ChatGPT or you're thinking of getting Claude, give it a try. And I would suggest putting asking both AI models the same question and then see about the responses because they're very. I feel like Claude's a little bit more intellectual. I don't know, it's not as, as, um, Chachi PT would always agree with me, won't it? It's like, oh yeah, that's amazing. And then if I challenge it, it goes. Yeah, I totally agree. Whereas Claude will do that from the start. It will challenge you back. So if you do decide to make a switch, let me know. Um, but declawed AI is one thing that I want to play around with a little bit more and possibly on my desktop version as opposed to using it on the. On the phone. But. Yeah, but that doesn't, um, allude from using the custom GPTs, because it's still one of the most popular accessible AI, um, platforms that we can use or we're comfortable using. So, yeah, I'm still using both, but that was heavily trained in March. The thing that I've seen, and I wouldn't say it's trendy, but I've seen more of, is cupcakes. I've seen a lot more cupcakes on my feed and on my, um, my Instagram feed and on my TikTok. And they aren't necessarily like the highly stylized one. These are flavors. And obviously that falls into my particular niche that I love to see. So that's been really interesting. And I'm just wondering what's fueling that. Whether it is a cost thing or a cost thing or a request from customers that they want to see that, um, do people perceive that to be cheaper than a celebration cake? And I'll be saying not necessarily, depending on what they have. But it was interesting to see that there was more and more coming onto my feed and that also ties in. I know that I've mentioned in previous episode about sprinkles closing in America. Um, but I think it's. They've reopened a couple of concessions as well, so we'll have to see how the cupcake thing plays out. And I'm wondering whether that also plays into nostalgia, because I've spoke quite a few times about nostalgia on these episodes and whether we take you. We want to go back to how things were simpler. So maybe cupcakes ties into that kind of trend. Who knows? We're just gonna have to watch this space and see how it plays out now. I just want to give flowers to recognize people that have paved the way for the cake community that we have now. And the reason why I'm saying that is because I was on Tick Tock the other day and I saw Mitch Turner. Now, if you don't know who Mitch Turner is, she is a cake maker cake decor that I remember from back in the day. This is going to probably go back 2012, 2013. She has a business called the Little Venice Cake Company. Um, she makes cakes for celebrities. But I haven't seen Mitch Turner in absolute years. And I've got some of her books, I've got some of her books and I think they're in my shed, to be fair, because they. I remember when buying a cake decorating book was all the rage and she had the most beautiful designs. I remember she used to do cakes with these little petite, tiny little polka dots around her cakes. Really, really love this stuff. But I was actually like surprised when I saw it because number one, I thought, oh, wow, is she still making cakes? And she is. So I just, you know, you can put a comment. And I said, you know, lovely to see you. I've got some books of yours. Welcome to Tick Tock. And she responded back and she started following me, which I think is amazing. But I think if we just have to give credit where credit's due to some of these people that have come before, we're talking about people like Debbie Brown, Lindy Smith, Smith, Peggy Portion. If you don't know who these people are, then probably you're not a person of a certain age. But if you are, you might recognize these names and these people. I remember buying like, um, a Linda Smith book and trying to replicate some of the modeling work that she does. The same with Debbie Brown. I remember Debbie Brown used to go to a lot to Cake International. I don't know whether she's still making cakes. Peggy Portion is still around because she's got this beautiful bakery in, I don't know, is it Chelsea? Really posh, part of, um, London pink aesthetic, really, really pretty. And these are people like, as well as like all the cupcake stuff that I was into. But Kate Decorating, I've got so many of their books located in my shed and everywhere. So I thought let's just give these people their flowers because for a lot of people, these are the people that we were looking to when we were starting our businesses or even our, you know, influencing our decorative style. So I just thought it was just really great to see her, an old school cake decorator on Tick Tock, hoping followers are starting to climb. But she posts some really lovely content and her cakes aren't overly complicated. That's what I like about what she's posting. And I think she's got a new book out, so it'd be great to get on the podcast. But, um, yeah, it was, it was good to see I, you know, give credit where credit's due. So I've been listening to a lot of Podcasts outside of the cake world, like I always do. I've got so many different niches and genres that I listen to. And um, I like to listen to business podcasts. And you've got the Emma Greed one, you've got the one with Rashala Humes, uh, um, female friendly, female focus rather. And I started to listen to one called the Businessman. And the Businessman has got. Now what's his name? So the episode is hosted by Ben Shepard and Joel Dummett and it's really interesting and what it is, they're trying to launch a male skincare brand. And while they're doing this, they're having a number of people come on to talk about, inspire them. So people that have already got businesses. So you've had people like, um, Caroline Hiron, who else have they had? They've had some people off Dragons Den on there and they're just giving them advice and they just tend to focus on different areas within the business. But this particular episode that I listened to, they had on, um, Trini Woodhall. Now if you remember Trini Woodhall, she used to have a program on with Suzanne Constantine, is it Constantine, where they would dress women. But anyway, she has a skincare brand called Trini London. And she was talking to them obviously about the do's and don'ts of running the business. And then one of them asked her who she was inspired by when she was running a business and she said there wasn't nobody in particular that she was inspired by. But what she's learned is to not look over, to not look over the fence. Don't look over the fence, she basically said. And that really, that really resonated and I think it will resonate with a lot of cake makers because we as a community are always tapping into trends and what other people are doing. And I think sometimes it's easy to look at Instagram or the other social media stuff sites, look at what other people are doing and think, oh, I've got to be doing that. And that point, it just really landed for me. So it's basically about comparison. And um, try not to take notice of what other people are doing or what other businesses have, because you don't really know people's journeys, do you? Or, um, where they've come from. So I just thought that was really interesting. It just really landed for me and I just wanted to just talk about it here that, you know, when you are on social media medium, um, don't be tempted to keep looking at what other people are doing. Stay in your lane and focus and the enjoyment will come because I find for me personally, when once I've really sort of niche down as hard as I can, I'm having the most fun. I'm really enjoying doing what I'm doing because I'm not trying to replicate what other somebody else is doing or tap into a trend. I'm just really niching and sticking to what I'm doing. I've been doing cupcakes till 20 since 2011 and I'm still doing them now and I'm not bored with them and I'm trying to sort of get them to evolve and do other things with it. But yeah, just remember to, to don't look over the fence. And uh, yeah, I just really like that statement. But go and give it a listen. It's quite a good funny little M podcast really. Um, it's called the Businessman you can find at Apple and I'm assuming it's on Spotify as well. Anyway, that was a very rambly magazine style episode. Next month we will have a guest on and um, if you're still listening then thank you. And if you do enjoy this podcast, please feel to leave me a review. Share it with your cake friends. Share the episodes like you know, what you see on Instagram. It's really helpful. But um, I'm still enjoying doing them and we've got a few more months left before I'm going to take my summer break. So hopefully we can get a few more guests in before that. But all that's left for me to say is have a lovely week, happy baking and see you next time. Bye Sam.